The Rosebud Second Birthday Edition - Dame Judi Dench Returns

0:28作詞曲 曲 李宗盛

0:47Welcome to Rosebud. You'll find Harriet, Jane and me in quite skittish form today. We're celebrating. What are we celebrating, Harriet? Our second birthday. Our second birthday. We launched Rosebud a couple of years ago around about the 1st of September 2023. I chose the 1st of September because it is the feast of... St. Giles. Exactly. And I thought, well, there we are. It's as close as I'm going to get to becoming a saint. And you have been a saint, if I may say so, for the last two years. You have been wonderful. You have... People find this hard to believe. It is genuinely just the two of us.

1:27I have a friend who assists me called Becky, who has helped us get some of the guests. And she has helped also when we've had some guests here at home, give them a bit of lunch after we've done the recording. And you have had, we've also had, if I may say so, great model support from your husband, Leon. Yes. So we've had family involvement, but essentially it's just been you. You have edited hundreds of programmes. It is hundreds, I've actually lost count. We began with one a week and then we started doing two a week. I know, that was crazy. And there's the possibility of something extra from September.

2:04Who knows? Yes. Quite soon. Well, so. Yeah. Well, do you have any memorable moments? Well, there's so many memorable moments. Oh, I mean, all the times we've cried and obviously laughed and amazing people that we've met. I mean, I've been, I'm so lucky to sit in a room with people sharing really quite intimate, amazing stories. Heartwarming, heart-wrenching. Yeah. Some really tough stories at times and some very funny ones. Yeah. And just always so evocative. I mean, you just feel you know someone so well afterwards. And, you know, with some of the most amazing people, I'm very lucky. I mean, we can't go from A to Z, but with the A's, I remember Pam Ayers in this very room.

2:51Yeah, she was fantastic. I often think about her because she shares exactly the same birthday as my wife, Michelle, born the same day, almost at the same time, the same year. And her conversation with us was an extraordinary evocation of rural working class childhood in the 1940s and 1950s. I mean it was brilliant. It was. It was a real-time capsule. Yeah. And so many we've had so many people from literally Oscar winning international stars like Gary Oldman through to the Poet Laureate, the Astronomer Royal, the Prime Minister. I mean ex-Prime Minister. We've had a lot. We've also had a lot of dames.

3:33And I'm particularly excited that we're going to have the first time of hearing again from somebody. Yes. Who was our first episode with? Dame Judi Dench. Dame Judi Dench. We thought we'd begin at the top. And well, why not? She's a good friend of yours, isn't she? I'm proud to say she is a proper friend. We do a show together. I've known her for a number of years. I've been to her home. She's been to my home. We are good friends. And we're comfortable with each other on the stage. I have to say, one of the privileges of my life, given that I love of the theatre is to spend time, hours, on stage alone with Judi Dench.

4:15Wow. It is amazing. Yeah. It's also extraordinary because when she comes on, I go on first when we do a show, and we're doing some more towards Christmas. I come on first and introduce her, tell a couple of stories and then introduce her. And she comes on to a wall of sound and love that almost knocks you over. It hits you. Wow. Wow. And it is fantastic. and it's so warm the welcome that i think every time oh gosh how can we calm them all down but we do calm them down and then we build them up again and it is sheer magic and to work with her is to feel in the moment yes you know she looks you in the eye you look her in the eye it's it's it's real and well what we're doing today is uh we went you and i to the concert Artists Association, which is a club in Covent Garden for people in the entertainment industry.

5:10It was begun, I think, for people who were concert artists. They were not quite musical performers. They thought they were a little cut above that. They appeared in Variety and in Summer Seasons, companies like the Folder Rolls. Anyway, it's been going for years. And I think Sue Pollard, one of our other guests, not quite long ago, is their president. They've got this lovely club. She was in the audience. She was in the audience. And you wouldn't have known it. No. Not a peep from her. So you've given it away. We did a show there. We did a show for, in aid of the charity, that is the Concert Arts Association.

5:47And thanks to Judy coming along, I think they've raised plenty of money for their new lighting. And I had a conversation with Judy. And she told us some stories she hadn't told us before. So this is Rosebud, one of our Rosebud on the roads. We've done a few of those. I guess your favourite probably was mine as well, because of where we went to. Oh, Sissinghurst. Absolutely. Oh, I'm afraid that was my favourite. Of course it was, because it was living history. We were there with the grandson of Vita Sackville-West, who created the garden, and with his wife, who you're already a fan of. Sarah Raven.

6:28Oh, that was such a good episode. I really recommend that to people, actually, because it's maybe not two people that... Not necessarily household names in the way that some of the people we've had are. So interesting. So we do Rosebud on the Road. This is a Rosebud on the Road, which means there's an audience there. And it's slightly different when it's on the road because we know inevitably many of our guests are performers. And so they slightly play to the audience. It's not as intimate as it is when it's just you and me or you and me and the guest sitting here at my home or sitting in our lovely studio at Grosvenor House in Park Lane.

7:01And so, Judi Dench was our first dame, but we've not been short of dames, have we? I mean, aren't there going to be any dames left? I don't think so, Charles. We had Dame Penelope Keith. She was wonderful. Dame Penelope Wilton. Oh, I love her. What a great actress. Yes, and a lovely person. Dame Harriet Walter. The last interview with Dame Maggie Smith. My God. The privilege of actually doing this show for two years. Dame Maureen Lipman. Hooray! Who, this Sunday, I think it's in the public domain, I will be going to her wedding. Oh, I was going to say, isn't she getting married? She's getting married.

7:40Woo-hoo! She's getting married in the morning. I think it's actually the afternoon. Oh. I'll be there. Totally good. This is fantastic. To get married in your 80th year. Very good. It's fantastic. Yeah. Anyway, she was fantastic. The point is, hundreds of episodes out there, hundreds of episodes to come. Thank you so much. Thanks to you, our audience, we actually hit the number one spot this year we did the most popular podcast in the uk we're regularly in the top 10 top 20 please keep on spreading the word if you have family and friends and i do particularly people of riper years who say what is a podcast so that's something amusing to say i say get a life get you know get with the program you get quite angry i do yes because it's not difficult to find come on you've got children grandchildren friends neighbors you You can do it on your mobile phone, on your computer, on some TVs.

8:32You can get hold of a podcast. It's Giles Brandreth's Rosebud. Rosebud with Giles Brandreth. And that's all it is. You can actually, sometimes, if you've got a machine to speak to, you can actually say the name of the episode. You can say... Oh, Giles, I've never seen you so furious. Well, no, I'm not furious. I'm just passionate. Passionately promoting Rosebud all the time. And you need to be, I'm passionate about this. I think it's the most interesting. I've said to you before, mustn't burst into tears. Don't burst into tears. I won't. Actually, we should. It's the second birthday party. We've got to burst into tears.

9:04We're allowed to burst into tears. I say, Harriet, I've worked with many very distinguished producers. You remember we did Ivor Mountbatten? My first TV show was directed by a man called Peter Morley who had directed a whole series with Lord Mountbatten of Burma. Ten-part series. Wow. Maybe even 13-part. It used to happen in those days for the BBC. Hour-long programmes. terribly long, huge people in the multi-millions viewing. He then produced me. So I've worked with the greatest. You, Harriet Jane, are the best producer I've ever worked with. Now I'll put the gun away. It's true, because you care about the quality.

9:48We care about the calibre of the guests, the quality of the sound, and the quality of the audience. We try to live up to your expectations. If you've got kind things to say, please leave a review for us on our second anniversary. If you want to get in touch with us because you've got guests to suggest for the next two years or have got memories of your own to share, what is the best email address? Hello at rosebudpodcast.com. Great. The best is yet to be. But today we've got our first Rosebud friend, the great Dame Judi Dench, also a companion of honour who at the end of last year turned 90 but she is evergreen and at the Concert Arts Association in London we had a very special second Rosebud conversation thank you Dame Judy thank you all the dames who have been our guests thank you all the knights, peers prime ministers, presidents and assorted folk for being with us on Rosebud see you well in our third year for now enjoy this as the finale of our second year Dame Judi Dench we're set in unison now one two three cue the music Thank you.

11:34I'm wearing it. I didn't think you were serious when I met you, and you found you putting that cardigan. Well, it's rather a special one. Cardigan, is it a cardigan? It's a cardigan, but it's my Jumping Jack Flash cardigan. Of course it is. And the reason I'm wearing this is because my wife and I went on a special holiday recently to celebrate an anniversary, and we were in the Caribbean, and we were standing on the beach in Jamaica, the sun had set, and walking along the beach, we saw from a distance this elderly-looking person, little bent old lady, nut brown, little old wizened lady, came teetering along the beach towards us, and it wasn't until the little figure got to about there we realised it was actually Mick Jagger.

12:21And was it his jacket? Yeah, it is his sort of outfit. Just for the thing, for a really hot day in time. I'm going to take it off. Oh, yes, please. triumph because we've now going to start we are very excited to be here at the caa in the world of variety entertainment variety artists who are the sort of variety turns that you've either met or enjoyed on stage tommy steel would you call him variety tommy steel yeah an actor Both. Both, isn't it? Variety and acting. Tommy Steele. And I was very fond of him. And I was at the Avic with him in She Stoops to Honka. To Honka. You can tell it's a hot day.

13:11When it's revived, it won't be called She Stoops to Honka. Yeah. And I have a wonderful tale about that. There was a most glorious man called Ernie Davis at the stage door of the OVIC. and he asked Tommy for this particular letter that arrived while we were doing She Stoops to Conquer at the Vic and Tommy gave it to him and he had it framed. It was a great priceless possession. And somebody wrote to Tommy while we were doing the show and said, Dear Mr. Steele, my wife, Mabel and I, coming to see She Stoops to Conquer on Tuesday, October 21st, would you please insert little white bull

13:59that was his big hit at the time wasn't it that was a huge little white bull that's right and did he a little white bull little white well we should have all joined in shouldn't we would have been a tryout was he good he was also festy at that time wasn't he this was the old big company end of the 50s no he wasn't festy Did he not do Festy? No, he only did Tony Lumpkin. In Street Soup's to Conquer. Yes. You were, though, at that time, who did appear with Frankie Howard... We did. ...in A Midsummer Night's Dream. Yes. And did you a lot of... No, no, no, Mrs Titania. Titter ye not, Titania. Was there a lot of that?

14:40Yes, but I didn't play Titania, alas. I played Hermia in that production. But he was wonderful. He was sensational. but I also remember seeing Tommy Cooper in a show and I'll never forget it because he walked in maybe somebody here a lot of people here as well with a little white gate not Tommy Steele and Little White Ball you're telling the right story now Tommy Cooper and the Little White Gate and he came in and put it down here and everyone howled with laughter and never referred to it again

15:18i thought that that is inspired that's really inspired did you ever do any of those shows with morgan wise i did well yes i worked with them and then eric morgan came to supper one evening and i was frightfully nervous and i said to mikey oh god what on earth am i going to what are we going to give him what do we get i know we'll give him salmon salmon and salad it's pretty safe and um he he walked in and i was in the hall he said hello young man so he said what are we having for supper i said salmon he said i'll have the veg didn't have the salmon at all oh adorable who do you remember seeing when you were younger did you ever see daniel aru certainly we knew him very well because he lived very near uh we had a house in warwickshire and we lived very near danny so we used to go to lunch a lot with him and he and he did a very very charming thing because he came to our wedding and he came we had we were married in a tiny little church in Hampstead and he arrived a bit late I mean just before we kind of went in and he arrived with two enormous vases which he sat in church with on both knees like that the whole way through the service don't we still have them we can prove it no because he was very generous he was a big-hearted person wasn't he wasn't he tell me now about some of the great actresses that you were lucky enough when you were young to know.

17:05When I say great actresses, exactly. Is that the name that comes first into your head, Damien De Thevence? No, the person who comes first into my memory is Peggy Ashcroft, who was a really, really loving and dear friend of mine. And lived near me in Hampstead. What do you think Peggy Ashcroft gave you? Because you always whenever we talk about the great actresses we'll talk about some of the others but whenever I ask you about it you always say Peggy Dame Peggy what beyond the kindness that she showed you what were the qualities she had either as a human being or as an actress that you think you learned from

17:50oh Giles

17:54not only was she a friend but she was also a neighbour, very nearest in Amsterdam. So I could drop in and just talk at any time, mostly about love and falling in and out of love. There was a lot of that talk. She said, oh, I've done that a lot.

18:16But it was just what, you know, getting the privilege of being in something with somebody, with somebody, I mean, with lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of actors. But you could learn something at every performance from Peggy, as you could, you know, as you could from Ian Holm, from Patrick Weimark, from Dottie Tewton. You know, so much of our job, I think, is watching and listening to other people and learning from them. What did you learn, though, from Edith Evans? You worked with her? I did. I walked on in Henry VIII at the OVIC. And we, after a year at the VIC, I think it was 58, maybe, we went to Paris with it.

19:14And I was understudying Anne Boleyn and being a lady-in-waiting. And there was one scene where Edith was talking to Henry Lates, who was Harry Andrews, and she was sitting in a chair, and we were all sitting at her feet with a big tapestry, all sewing quietly. And on the first night in Paris, there was a blackout before it, and then they set her chair, and we came on and sat down, and the curtain went up and Dame Edith was lying on her back on the floor with her legs in the air, having missed the chair, and saying, Ferme la Lumière! Ferme la Lumière! And all I remember about it was not that she was...

20:05And how terrible. It's that we all sat there like that.

20:10Nobody took a blind bit of notice. I thought that's... We all got told off quite right. So you sat there literally sewing away. Nobody, not one of us. And she desperately was... God helped her up. Oh, my God. Ignored it. Did anybody turn off the lights? No. No? She just laid there. I think it was Harry Andrews, or maybe Sir John got her up. Give us then some of your family. Tell me a little bit about your parents. Describe your father and mother to me. Also, what they looked like. What sort of people they were. My mother was from Dublin. and had red hair and very blue eyes. And my pa was born in Dorset, and then the family went to Dublin.

20:56And that's where they met. He went to Trinity, and they met there, and then they married. Were they both at Trinity, or he was... No, he was at Trinity. And he was going to be a doctor? Yes, he was a doctor. And they met, were they quite young when they met? Well, I think they were. I think they were, yes. They were at Wesley College. That's where they met. And then they moved to Lancashire, where my brothers were born, and then they moved to York, where I was born. And you have two brothers? My pa had a huge, huge practice as a doctor in the north of England. Oh, beyond York. It wasn't just...

21:39No, that's why we did so wonderfully during the war, because my pa used to not only have a surgery in York every day, but he used to, first thing in the morning, go out and visit all around York, all the farms and all the... I mean, I think it was one of the largest practices in the North. He and Dr. Kelly and Dr. Attridge. People used to give us duck and chickens and, you know, all sorts of things. and so I mean during the war we did very well and we also had 14 cats so you can tell how well we did the cats were oh go round to the denches they've always got something left over and it was because patients would just patients gave the lovely presents the word got around they would give you know yes word got around in the cat world and they would come they would say you know So we were very, very lucky.

22:38As a consequence of this story, the film Cats should have done better, shouldn't they? Steady.

22:47I'm the one person who really enjoyed this film. I mean, Judy has walked out before now, and I've mentioned it, so I'm taking a risk there. Were they happy together all their lives? Were they a good couple as a couple? What do you remember about them as parents? Well, they laughed a lot. And my father knew the whole of the Mordartha. The whole, I mean, he could recite. He could recite endlessly. And every morning I was at the attic at the top. And my ma used to say, she'd go down and she'd say, Reggie, call duty on the way down. And then I would hear, Awake, for morning and the bold of night have flung the stone that sets the stars to flight.

23:34And lo, the hunter of the east has caught the sultan's turret in a noose of light. And it's the Omar Khayyam. And that's how I was woken up every morning. So there was no chance. It's a good start. I mean, it was a good start. And who were your older brothers? Who were they? My brothers? Yeah. My oldest brother, Peter, was a doctor, like my father. And Jeff, my second brother, was, and still is, I think, the person who's longest at Stratford. as an actor and he was there for many many years and i think i you know caught it from him when i when i didn't wasn't good enough at being a designer but were you beyond your brother was he the first in the family to become an actor yes there was no heritage of it not in your no but peter my oldest the brother who was the doctor i saw when i saw him playing duncan in the Scottish play when I was seven.

24:36That's the first... And Peter walked on and said, what bloody man is that? I thought, oh Christ, this is Shakespeare and swearing. This is for me. Did the war affect you in York? Was York one of the places that was bombed? Were you conscious of the war? Yes, I was very conscious of the war. and when when when there were blitzes and things we used to go down to the cellar where um my pa had made right around the wall of the cellar which was very small really was a little ledge attached to the wall and my pa had put the railway on it this little railway like a toy railway yes tricks twin railway and so during the war we'd be down there and the railway would be running around the around the walls like that it was wonderful and also there was the glorious thing of the moment was the siren you would put on your siren suit and so everyone became an animal because they were all animals do you know you'd be a zip up rabbit or you'd be a penguin or that was very nice.

25:47Your first part, in fact, was as an animal of some sort. A snail. A snail. What was this was in a nursery school? What school were you at for this? Yes, at Miss Meabies in Clifton. Miss Meabies. Yes. And what was the play? The play. The play was Four and Twenty. I've never known is is it tailors or sailor tailors i think is it four and twenty tailors went to kill a snail nobody knows you see it's high high time it was done again i think it was i think it's four and twenty tailors went to kill a snail the best man amongst them dares not touch her tail she put out her horns like a little something cow run tailors or sailors run or she'll have you all and it can't be have you all there now yes i have you all there now that's good i was the snail gosh what happened well my pa made me this amazing huge buckram shell uh yes shell and i was in rompers and i had to creep on and hide in the middle and they were all round like that and they all started and that was fine for the rehearsals absolutely fine but then of course came the night or the afternoon uh when all our parents were there and i was able to came up i had to come on because i had to be there where they were all there when they were all there and then it was too much for me.

27:25So, having crawled into the middle of the stage, they were just about to say, four and twenty, whichever it is, tailors or so does, I think it's tailors, went to kill a snare and I stood up. And I heard Miss Mebe from the side here saying, get down, Judith. She said, I don't know if I ever got to the end. I don't know what happened to the second half. You were playing the title role. And you stood up and stole the show. I don't think steal the show is quite what the movie is as well. I think so. Well, people are talking about it more than 80 years later, so it's something special. When did you become Judy as opposed to Judith?

28:10Only ever Judith when people were cross. Or at school. Judith. Does that still happen? Judith. Does that, when you find a director who isn't, What does Trevor Nunn say when it's not going very well? Judith? Judith? No, Trevor Nunn and I have another names for each other. Because when we were rehearsing, do you remember when that eagle got out of Regent's Park? Yeah, quite. Exactly my point. And I stopped the rehearsal. I can't remember what we were doing. Anyway, I said, what an incredibly unimaginative name for an eagle. So Trevor said, why? What would you call? I said, well, Rover or Spot. And that Trevor is Rover and I'm Spot.

29:05He's coming to lunch next week. These are revelations. So we have your parents there. Tell me, what do you think you've, what have they given you? What did your parents give you that you have now? Enthusiasm. sense of humour sing anytime you like or can you've always been a positive person haven't you which is nice a what? a positive person I don't mean that in a medical sense oh she's positive that could alarm people I mean your outlook and that you inherited from them got that from them yes I think yes you know that that story I tell so often about Romeo and Juliet It was true when I had the line, I played Juliet for Franco's Everett at the Vic, and I had the line, where are my father and my mother nurse?

30:01And my part did say, here we are, darling, in Rowage.

30:11That's wonderful. Who are your favourite Shakespeare women that you've played? Viola and Mariah. Oh. Not in the same production. Oh. Hermione and the Winter's Tale. And I doubled Perdita as well. It's very greedy talk.

30:33Mistress Quickly would be fun. Yes, hugely good. We did a lovely musical production, that was Greg Doran of the Comedy of Errors. Oh, you did. Which was good fun. and at the end I exited and then just the very end somebody, of course, cartwheeled right across the stage and it used to get a belt. Because we thought it was you. Yes, and my Sammy, my grandson, I mean, he believed it until quite recently really that it was me. this is the production I think in which Alistair McGowan was Master Ford is that right? no what was either? that's another production no it's a musical production I'm sure it's the musical was it Alistair?

31:33it was Alistair McGowan was it? I don't think it was no that was no that was at the Vic wasn't it? no I think it was Stratford I think Desmond Barrett couldn't do full stuff, so you had Simon Callow. And then I don't know who couldn't do Master Ford, maybe Nicky Henson, and so you had Alistair McGowan. Oh, just. I've cornered her into this story. It's such a rude story. They'll be the judges. If it's an inappropriate story, I promise you, if they don't like it and it's greeted with stony silence, I will never lead you up the garden path into it again. this happens every time i try to get this she says it was another production uh the the old vick you know she's referring to a production before alice mcgown was born this is 2001 when in stratford upon avon you are living who are you living oh anyway you tell us oh god i was we i we were living brendan o 'hay and i great friend of mine and i was playing pistol he and i were living out in Ludington and I at the time had a BMW which we used to drive in and out of Ludington to Stratford and we always used to see Alistair McGowan, oh please forgive me if you've heard this, Alistair McGowan walking up Chestnut Walk.

32:56We'd always see him and Brendan would always shout something at him. So then you have to cut to the day when I wasn't with Brendan, Brendan had gone on, I was called a bit later, and I went in, driving down Chestnut Walk in the BMW, suddenly thought, oh God, there's Alistair McGowan, I'd better shout. So I shouted out of the open car, I said, wanker! And then glanced in the side mirror to see a total stranger.

33:31Shameful. You've not heard the story before because he's not normally allowed to tell it in public.

33:44Tell me, how did you meet Johnny Depp? I met him in that film called Chocola. Ah. But then they said, would you come and do one shot in Pirates of the Caribbean? I said, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And they didn't kind of prepare me for any of it, really. I was sitting there, and they said, somebody will jump in through the window, and then something will happen, and they'll jump out again. So I thought, okay. So I sat there, and they said, action. And Johnny Depp jumped in through this window and came up and kissed what I thought was kissing my ear. But in actual fact, he removed my earring.

34:28and then he jumped out of the window. So we only did it once and I said, is that it? I said, and I think that's in it. Yeah. I think that line is it. Is that it? I was... You saying, is that it? They've kept that in. Is that it? I see me looking rather bewildered. But that's what's so strange about some of these films. There's no rehearsal. I mean, the play, you could be rehearsing four weeks, six weeks? Quite. And you're still working on it at every performance. Tell us about the phone call that you got from... Oh, yes. Yes, and... This is an extraordinary story about being directed. I got a phone call one night, and the voice said, Judy, I said, yeah, this is Clint Eastwood.

35:22I said, oh, Brendan, come on. he said no this really is Clint Eastwood and so it was it was and he asked me to go and be in J Edgar about J Edgar Hoover which you played J Edgar Hoover's mother yes when you first met Clint Eastwood you hadn't met him before on the set what happened well I got there and had costume fittings and was there for a couple I didn't meet him at all I didn't meet him until the very first day we shot and we were sitting and I thought I suppose he's going to turn up and I suddenly felt a hand on my shoulder and I looked and you look up a very long way and there he was and he never ever says action, never you sit and you're not told anything or anything and then he suddenly says in your own time laughter laughter And then he says, stop.

36:34And then you get ready to do a second take. And you think, well, are we going to? He said, no. He does things in one and two takes. It's heaven. But it's unnerving. It is unnerving, particularly if you don't think you've got it right first time or you haven't decided what the part's going to be about. or even how to play it it's not like the theater films you've had it it's there it's done you think oh that's not the way to do you know it's too late too late but in the theater you can get it right you know when we did Anthony and Cleopatra at the national I knew we did a hundred performances and I knew that one of the lines she said was meant to be a laugh I'm absolutely convinced and on the 100th performance I got the laugh now that's not to say that on the 101st I would have got it again but it is a very you know, theatre's a work in progress and so much of it, well you know more than half of it is the people who are there and what they give you and then what you give in return One of your many film co-stars is Billy Connolly oh yeah because we i mean we all loved mrs brown did you know billy connolly before that came about was he cast before you after you how did that i'm sure he was cast before i'm sure he was and what happened love oh oh i just completely fell for him in the way that I'm sure that she did.

38:19Ah. I'm sure. But he was bliss. Just bliss. We were in Ardveric in Scotland and we used to go back every night to this hotel where we all were. We'd go and have a shower, come down, get into the bar. All of us used to do it without fail. And there was Billy with a tray and a teapot and a cup on his knee and we would have drinks and things. We'd be sitting there. And he would start and we would be incandescent with laughter and you'd be looking at the time thinking, golly, what's the time? Crikey, my call's at 5.30 in the morning. Can I do, you know, how many hours do I need sleep? It was just wonderful.

39:10And there's that now iconic poster of you on the horse or the pony is blue is that what you're called? Yes and Billy Billy as Mr Brown walking alongside you tell me that story this is so lovely we did that at Osborne and we had to we walked along a very very long path and the camera was way up here and so there I was on the horse and Billy walking beside me and every step I took the horse went

39:47and Billy said is that you?

40:00I got a message from him the other day on my phone but it it says just M B and then a two and then something I get so I'm sure I know it's him perhaps wanting to be in touch but not being able to do it good that he's keeping in touch anyway we all loved that film we all loved him who was the actor who complained that you weren't looking at them he never looked at you he's no longer with us you can name names if you can if either of us can remember I would tell you the name of this person. It was Larry Harvey. Oh, Lawrence Harvey. Yes. He was so good-looking, wasn't he? Yes, he was good-looking.

40:50He just wouldn't look at me.

40:55With the Vic and our first American tour, he played Henry V, and I played the Princess of France. And I plucked up enough courage to say to him on, I think, last night, which was months later, Larry, why didn't you ever look at me? He said, because it should be played by a taller actress, he said.

41:20Can't do anything about that. Can't do anything about that. No. And I do remember quite early on in your career, did you not go to see a film producer about the possibility of making some films? Yes, a very famous film that he made that I've never let on who it was. And, by the way, I'm not going to say it now, But I think I've guessed. I think I've guessed. I'll check it out with you. I know you won't tell me, but I'll whisper it sometime to you, and you can either react or not. But tell me what happened. Well, I went to see him, and his office was at Piccadilly, where the underpass is now. No underpass then.

41:55I went to see him. I was at the Vic, and I was asked to go, and it was a very famous film. I was asked to go and see him, and I went, and he said, would you bring in the chair? And I brought in the chair and sat in front of him like that. And then he talked to me and I told him, I mean, I was only half an hour on the stage, you know, I'd not been around long. And then he said, he said, I'm sorry, he said, you have nothing right about your face for the film. So I said, right, thank you very much indeed. And I got up and I put the chair back and went very, very, very happily back to the OVIC. I hope he lived long enough to see you win your Oscar.

42:41Oh, no, I don't think he did. Oh, there we are. So we win either way. We miss that satisfaction, and he's already dead.

42:52Well, what would we... We ought to do, before we invite them to ask questions, do a little bit of a party piece. We've done before, and it's got quite a nice part for me, if you don't mind, a bit of... The Alna Pussycat? I want to add this is unrehearsed I didn't know I was going to say this and I have just in case I forget my lines I have brought a copy of it do you mind doing The Owl and the Pussycat? that's true have you chosen a part? well what part would you think I should play? Owl and the Pussycat? cue me in there is a very good part for you in it okay I'm ready when you are take it away Mr.

43:32Jamil by Edward Lee this is our party piece and then we'll let you join the part. The owl and the pussycat went to sea in a beautiful pea green boat. They took some honey and plenty of money wrapped up in a five pound note. The owl looked up to the stars above and sang to a small guitar. Oh, lovely pussy, oh pussy, my love. What a beautiful pussy you are. You are. You are. What a beautiful pussy you are. Pussy said to the owl, you elegant owl, how charmingly sweet you sing. Oh, let us be married, too long we have tarried, but what shall we do for a ring? They sailed away for a year and a day to the land where the bong tree grows.

44:27and there in a wood a piggy wig stood with a ring at the end of his nose his nose his nose with a ring at the end of his nose dear pig

44:47are you willing to sell for one shilling your ring said the piggy I will so they sailed away and were married next day by the turkey who lived on the hill they dined on mince and slices of quince which they ate with a runcible spoon and hand in hand on the edge of the sand they danced by the light of the moon the moon the moon they danced by the light of the moon.

45:43And we're inviting a few questions for Judy. Tell us who you are. Indeed, and me, if you have a question you want to ask me, by all means. So, fire away. My name is Charlie. One of my most powerful memories of school, I went to school in the Isle of Skye and we didn't get much access to theatre. And one day my English teacher put on your very famous RAC film production of The Scottish Play with Sir Ian McKellen in the lead role and yourself as Lady M. I was so mesmerised by that that that was the moment I fell in love with Shakespeare. and after school that day, I asked my teacher if I could go back into his classroom and I watched it again in its entirety after school.

46:27So thank you so much for that. But it's such a famous production of Macbeth. What are your memories of filming that and making that? Because it was done with almost no props and almost no costume and no set and yet it drew me in like you would not believe. So thank you for that. And what are your memories of filming that production? How lovely. Thank you. Especially on Sky, which I love. we played it for a long time at the other place in stratford uh so filming it came at the very very end as you saw there were no we were very very simple nobody had changes or anything and we just sat in a circle at the beginning the audience were just around us so it was very very very intimate indeed it was very exciting and there was a lovely priest and he used to come he came quite a lot and he used to sit and he had a crucifix around his neck and he used to hold it up towards us all the time it was it was very charged the atmosphere i'm i'm now more and more i took i saw ian not very long ago i'm more and more convinced that when you see that play the first scene he's not a villain in the first scene he's not a villain at all but it's what she says gives it away in one go, I think, her first scene.

47:48It's a real giveaway. She comes in for the first entrance, reading a letter from him, saying about what's happened, and then she says, Glams thou art, and caudal, and shalt be what thou art promised. Yet do I fear thy nature. it is too full of the milk of human kindness to catch the nearest way thou wouldst be great art not without ambition but without the illness should attend it what thou wouldst highly thou wouldst thou holily well I could go on I'm not going to go on anymore I'm not going to go but It seems to me She's a piece of work Don't tempt her Dame Trudy in her garden once Over elevenses Boasted that she could do the whole Midsummer Night's Dream from the beginning To the end I said go on And at 1.30 I gave in We've got time for a couple more Please Hello I'm Alex Christian Lucas But I just wanted to say your performance of Send in the Clowns is a masterclass in acting through song.

49:11So I would love to hear some of your memories of working on the original Weston production of Cabaret and with Bob Fosse and how that whole process was because it's such an iconic show. I think it was when I was at the Vicar, I was called to see Hal Prince and I went in and talked to him and then he said, would you come back and sing this song at some point in two days' time or something? And when I got there, I was absolutely terrified. So I said, do you mind if I sing it from the wings? And he said, no, not at all, not at all. He sat here, down here. no not at all and so i sang it for the wings and then he had a chat to me and um he said have you read this book christopher ashley wood's book and i said no he said i suggest you go and read it and he said um i'm going to talk to you tomorrow or day after you know what i just kept thinking this was a this was a great cabaret artist that could belt the song not at all you know she's an english girl who actually can't do it and who is suddenly caught in in the middle of the situation and kind of makes do and and um then he he cast me and i used to have that the the book christopher issues would open every single night on my dressing table with a bit of about her about the Englishness of her and that was a huge help because it was very overpowering but it was thrilling to be in absolutely thrilling Was the choreography easy?

51:06Well, not too difficult for me because I didn't have to do that much of it. You just moved about a bit Yes, moved about a bit Yeah And got away with it. Good, any more? Yes? My name is AJ West and my probably favourite performance of yours was in a 2004 film Ladies in Lavender and I just wondered if you had any memories of filming that with Dame Maggie Smeagher oh yes and Charlie Dance directed it and we were in Cornwall a place called Prussia Cove and it was very very hot and we were in a cottage i can remember at lunchtime maggie and i sitting upstairs playing cards at lunchtime absolutely furious because we were in wigs and costume and everything everybody else had thrown themselves in the sea they were all having a lovely swim uh and we were in this little stuffy cottage but we had we had a glorious time doing it.

52:18Lovely time. While we're talking about these other great dames, share with me, because I love this story, when you were in Cranford with Eileen Atkins and there's a scene where the pair of you, are you sisters in that? Yes. You come out. In a cottage, yes. And you're coming out to greet Yes. I'll set it up and see if we can both remember at the same time. What happens is this. These scenes are very complicated to set up. So there are Judy and Eileen, they've got to come out of the cottage, come down the path, and the carriage comes around the corner, and at the right moment, the door of the carriage is opened, and Eileen is going to say, welcome to Cranford.

52:58And the, all set up, I mean, they're since seven in the morning, it's now eleven, they're ready for this take, both of them come down the steps, the carriage comes around the corner, the carriage door opens, and Eileen says, welcome to Ambridge.

53:22One last question from the back of the room. Is there an actor that you haven't had the opportunity to perform with that you really wish you had had the chance, and in what roles would you have wished you could have performed in? We've got the rest of the day and the whole night, have we?

53:45Well, I don't know where to begin. You didn't do much with Ronald Olivier, did you? No, no. He was all talk, no action, that man.

53:57But that's interesting, because you did with Sir John, Sir Ralph. Sir John, Sir Ralph. Yes, on the radio, weren't you with Sir Ralph on the radio? Oh, in Hamlet. In Hamlet. So we were. And he tore the sleeve out of my dress. That's true. I played Ophelia to Sir Ralph's Hamlet on a day when in the afternoon I was meeting Vanessa to sit down in Trafalgar Square and protest with Canon Collins. And Sir Ralph got to the nunnery scene and tore my sleeve right out of my dress. And so after that, I said, thank you very much to me. And off I went to Trafalgar Square and sat down with Vanessa with my dress all torn like that.

54:44And then Vanessa was arrested. We were arrested. And Vanessa said, I can't possibly come. I've got a matinee, she said to Vanessa.

55:00But in answer to your question, what's interesting, I think, about Dame Judy is that she doesn't really seem to pick and choose. If the right person asks, she says, yes, I was genuinely in her garden chatting away and the phone call, there was a phone in the house and somebody came out of the house and said, oh, Judy, there's some Kenneth Branaghs on the phone. And Judy barely glanced up and said, oh, whatever it is, the answer's yes. And that's not exaggeration, is it? No, it would still be yes. So all these actors that she's going to play with, their people get to come, she does not know... I don't think that's quite the right expression.

55:43She doesn't know who they are yet, and when they've been and gone, she won't necessarily remember the experience. We've got to bring this to a close, you know, because... Would you mind... One more from our vice chairman. Very, very quickly. A quickie from the vice chair. This is a real quickie. Thank you so much. My name's Simon Bashford. I've been a member for 25 years. Oh, well done. 25. The light is very flattering. I have one quick question for you to end on. all the wonderful work that you've done is there something that you you haven't done yet or you would like to do whether it be from a classical point of view or from a musical point of view is there anything that you you haven't done or would like to do I don't know you can reveal to them the title of the show that we may be doing later in the year Learning the Lions is a bit of a challenge please tell me, I hope he's going to tell me we agreed the title of the show over lunch today today

56:49we agreed the title jen who was with us at lunch is sitting there you can you can mouth it at dame judy if you want to well i can't see i'm so sorry yes it's it's this is i think it's a very good title. The point is, we may be back in the West End towards Christmas, and Judy has thought of the title, which is...

57:15I can't see you, Jack. I think the title's going to be, see if I remember it now. The title of the show is going to be, What's the Play? What's the Part? Isn't that quite good? We like that. Now, before we go, two quick things. One is we mentioned Charles Dance. And when Charles Dance was a guest on Rosebud, and I asked him, when I say the word joy to you, when I say joy to you, what comes into your mind? And immediately, Charlie Dance went into quite a graphic account of losing his virginity. When I say the word to you, joy, what immediately comes into your mind? Mind your own business.

58:07I would love you to give a real treat to these people, to all of us. Would you give us a little bit of Shakespeare? Do it sitting down, if you wouldn't mind, so the microphone can pick it up. A little bit of Shakespeare, a sonnet, a bit of, I don't know. I love that. The scene in Twelfth Night, where you may remember Malvolio, and in this production, Malvolio, as you recall, was played by Donald Sinden, is sent with a ring that Olivia, thinking that Viola is a boy, and has sort of rather taken to him, sends her own ring in pursuit of Viola, and Malvolio delivers it, and she doesn't accept it, so he chucks it on the ground and says, There it is.

58:51And Viola responds. I left no ring with her. What means this lady? Fortune forbid! My outside have not charmed her. She made good view of me, indeed, so much that sure me thought her eyes had lost her tongue, for she did speak in starts distractedly. She loves me, sure. The cunning of her passion invites me in this churlish messenger. None of my lords ring. Why? He sent her none. I am the man. If it be so as tis, poor lady, she would better love a dream. Disguise. I see thou art a wickedness wherein the pregnant enemy does much. how easy is it for the proper false in women's waxen hearts to set their forms alas our frailty is the cause not we for such as we are made of such we be how will this fetch my master loves her dearly and i poor monster fonders much on him and she mistaken seems to dote on me.

1:00:24What will become of this? As I am man, my state is desperate for my master's love. As I am woman, now alas the day. What thriftless sighs shall poor Olivia breathe. Oh, time. Thou must untangle this, not I. It is too hard a knot for me to untie. Judy Dane.

1:00:58Thank you.

1:01:11Thank you.

1:01:41Thank you.