Maria Sharapova & John McEnroe Build the Rushmore of Female Tennis Players

0:00When you get to the top and you look at like greats, like how did they handle success? She was an example. Who makes the final decision? Or is that a dumb question? I have the exact same list as John. Oh wow. Let me see it. The seconds after I win Wimbledon and I'm walking up the stairs, but I just lock eyes with John McEnroe. When did you stop throwing the racket? Or did you ever stop throwing the racket? I get paid to throw it. I used to get fined, but now I get paid.

0:35our good friends over at polymarker are thinking that okc has a 38 chance of being the nba champion this year the next runner-ups are san antonio spurs at 15 the celtics at 11 the nuggets at 9 well here's my pick here's my prediction coming out of the east i think it's going to be the celtics yep i mean nicks fans aren't going to like hearing that but yes well i actually think It's either Detroit, if Watson gets healthy with his lung collapse, or the Celtics. And then out of the West, if everybody stays healthy, I think it's going to be San Antonio or the Lakers. Over OKC? Yeah. I love this. Yeah.

1:12I love this. I don't think Luka's got OKC's number, even though they don't have to play him. Okay, I'll take that. I imagine OKC's going to be leading it, but as a Laker fan, I'm siding with Ari here. I don't believe, let's just say it's San Antonio that beats if the Lakers get past the first round and they beat them in the second round. I don't believe OKC can beat San Antonio. So here's how we start. Okay. This is where I exit the conversation. No, no, no. Here's where you start. You've got your time. Turn it out of your order. Okay. You have to kind of give an intro to her. Oh, fuck. And then she has to give an intro to you.

1:48And then what happens is you take your four. You pick your four. You pick your four. Ben and I pick our four. And then we have to come up with one four. Now, since you guys are the... In order? No, there's no order. There's no order. There can't possibly be order. There's not one. There's not a number one. One, two, three, four. There's only four. We don't have to rank them. We don't have to rank them. But I want to, since you guys are the... You have to do four. You have to do four. Can we throw some honorable mentions? No, it's an absolute technical foul. You can, you can, you can, but like...

2:22I do it all the time. There's probably eight or nine. There are rules for us three and there's rules for our teams. Yeah, exactly. So since you guys are the experts and we're the civilians. I don't know shit, but okay. Is there any criteria before we get started that you think we should think about that might change our list? On who would, like maybe it's history, you know, kind of like, or what the impact they had on the sport as opposed to just majors. I would throw that as part of it A combination of everything Success on the core, impact, culturally Impact to the score Okay, do you have any other No, that's about it And pre-open era I'm not as well versed As you two probably I'm incredibly well versed in the pre-open era I studied only the pre-open era Right?

3:15We had a whole conversation about that I don't even know what the fucking pre-open era is Are we talking about men and women? No, just women. I'm talking about before 1968. Remember, we were talking about pre-Margaret Court. And that's my world. That's really what I'm talking about. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. Helen Wills movie. That's right. That's right. Okay. Why don't we go pre... Why don't we go... Can we start with the intros? Because I'm already like, I don't know what to say about this guy. Why don't we go pre... Like, why don't we do just wood rackets? Ronald Roger or just wood rackets?

3:46Oh, yeah. Let's do that. I wouldn't win that either. Okay. Okay, so you have to do a little intro of who the man, the myth, the legend. Okay, so the personal intro starts here. So the first time I saw John McEnroe was when I, the seconds after I win Wimbledon, and I'm walking up the stairs to give a hug to my father. Who do I see is this guy in this small little booth, right? You had just started announcing it? He announced my title. No, but had you just started? No, I started 10 years earlier. I'm a veteran by this point. I got you. A seasoned veteran. A seasoned veteran. It's like 2006? 2004.

4:262004. And I'd never met him before, you know, so he was like a myth. Yep. But all of a sudden, I win this. I have this image, right? And you have to understand, like in 2004, the commentary, it's like this teeny little booth with a small window. I don't think they've spent much money on it since. No. Is it hot in there? It can be hot. Yeah. So I'm looking up these stairs and I'm like trying to find my father, but I just lock eyes with John McEnroe. And I am like. And he was in your mind at that point. Oh. A legend. Of course. Yeah. But I also never met him. Pretty well known at that particular.

5:04Right. Not for his commentating, but for his tennis. So I look at him and I'm like, oh my, what? I just like, it was like winning the trophy was seeing John McEnroe. Right. Then I hugged my dad and then I think we met right after. Do you remember that moment? No. No.

5:22Why would he? Well, that's all I have. She was 17. But I'm going to put Maria on the Mount Rushmore of all-time greatest female tennis competitors. Just want to say that for the record. Maybe, unfortunately, you might not make the top four overall. You know what? I did not expect my name to be there tonight. No, I believe that you're... That's why I was invited on. You deserve some serious... Well, you know, but you're on the list. No, he actually, he talked about wanting to do this with you. I would say, you know, but I'm going to throw top 10 in this. It's okay. And that's what I'm... Let's hope it's top five.

5:55My ranking drops every year, you know. And now the Sinner and Al Coran. You know, it's like, come on. Okay, so then when's the... When's the... After that? And then the next time is like a year later when Nike does a commercial around the U.S. Open and they do this I Feel Pretty ad. and John and they try to iterate the same scene where he's in the commentating booth and I hit the spinner So this is the mean Joe Green moment when you take off the shirt and you guys That was more of a friendly That was a great commercial

6:27Do you remember that commercial? That I remember, I still have the shirt I still have the shirt But she's one of the few players that's won a major on every surface and believe it or not but I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, but you won the French Open twice. I did. Is that right? Yeah. Where at that time, I remember when Maria first started playing, you said you, this is her quote. I was a cow on ice. A cow on ice. So one of the all-time greatest efforts in our sport ever was Maria winning the French, not once, but twice. Yeah. Not on all the other surfaces. I mean. Can I ask you a question?

7:03Is that the hardest surface for people outside Spain to win? That's a hard service. It actually shifts as you go through your career. I found the grass to be much easier for my game when I started because it was so much quicker. Now you've got clay court rallies on a grass court. So little by little that actually became a tougher surface. Explain what that means. I don't know what you just said. They slowed the courts down. They slowed the grass down. The grass courts and even the hard courts. The way they grow the grass and the balls that the players play with now are so heavy that the game is slower, so your rallies are longer, whereas before, if you were a great server...

7:43It's over. Yeah, I mean, that's it. You were a great grass court player. Now everyone has a chance. I grew up better on clay. You did? Yes. Why? I don't know. Maybe it was my patience.

7:58But, you know, I wasn't big or strong enough to do what I ended up being aggressive, but when I went to college, the courts are a lot faster, and people don't know this, and most people, for three years the U.S. Open was on clay. Oh, I didn't know that. 75, 6, and 7 was on clay. No idea. Where was it? At Forest Hills. And they had clay there? They had grass, but they switched. They had every service. My first tournament I ever played in my life at nine years old was at Forest Hills. On clay. Now U.S. is just hard court. The U.S. is all the summer circuits all hard court. Wait, wasn't the U.S. Open also on grass?

8:32Until 74 it was on grass. to grass. So three of the four used to be on grass. Then they switched to clay. So everyone's like, oh my God, it's a different game. But you know, hard courts was more of a, things happen faster. When did the hard court happen? 78. They moved to Fleshing Metal. How do you know all these stats? Oh, because you're an announcer. You're fucked right now. I have to know these things. You're so fucked. It's over. So things quickened up. Courts were a lot quicker, especially indoors. You know, when I played Bjorn Borg the first time in Stockholm it was tile I played on the court was tile was tiles you know just imagine a nice how you put in your kitchen no way yeah and they switch that because it's good I want you guys there weren't a ton of injuries on tile no they didn't move that fast you believe she's saying that tile yeah so they switch who thought of that terrible idea I don't know the sweets you know they're not a lot of history with great Swedes.

9:31And so, you know, who came along Bjorn board. So the game changed quite a bit. So that's why for me personally, then I liked that aggressive style and a much more of it's on hard courts, but now they slowed the hard courts down. They're the much bigger players. Generally the size of a, and they change it because it's all or the court combination, everything, everything. Cause they want the game to be longer, more rallies, right. More intricate. Now, can I ask one other question? I want to ask this question. So why, Why have they not changed, at least for the finals and the majors, women to be five sets?

10:05Why would they? Would you want to watch that? I would want to watch that. You would want to watch from the first point to the last, the women's three out of five? Yeah. No chance. I don't believe it. You're right. You don't watch any tennis for five sets is what you're saying. Rarely. Oh, my God. I mean, it's a long-ass even for the men to do that. But, you know, they did do that for a few years in the women of Madison Square Garden where they used to have the final eight, the top players. For a couple years, two, three years, like Navratilova and, you know, I think Salis, a couple of people, played best of five.

10:39And it wasn't a total disaster. No, I think it's more competitive. But not necessarily more competitive. But there's a lot of times where a two-hour movie is better than a three-and-a-half-hour movie. Yeah. Don't you think the quality will go down Like from the first set to the fifth set? Listen, I agree with the equal pay, etc But you can't have No, but wait, but you can't ask for equal pay If a match takes an hour and 15 minutes Compared to Sometimes three, four hours on the men It's just, I don't I don't understand this argument Because endurance I feel like, are men more endurance than women?

11:18I don't think that's even true No, she's just saying quality of play I know, but what? Just the quality of the game. The endurance of men go down also. A lot of times in the fifth set, guys are both tired. Some realist position is all tennis should just be best of three. I believe that there should be the best of five where at two sets all, there's a ten-point breaker. That's sort of a compromise. I want to get to my intro. Do you want to read that? Oh, yeah. Are you done talking about it? That's all I got. No, you did. She was one of the all-time all-around players that won the majors on every surface and incredibly even she called herself a slow cow or whatever won the French Open twice Just a cow Just a cow One of the all time greatest competitors ever in our sport period and she brought like this sort of extra panache to our sport because of what the way she played, the way she acted and the way she looked and what her story was to be honest I mean just everything about it Well done.

12:20Thank you. Okay. Which one of you want to start on your first four? Do we go one and one? No, no, no, no. We'll go four, four, four, four, and then we pick four. I'll start unless Maria wants to. You'll start. It's all yours. Women's first. I'm going to go with the obvious choice, Serena Williams. So I had a front row seat to Serena's greatness, right, starting at the very beginning where she kicked my ass and finishing at the very end where she kicked my ass. Well, not the very beginning, the first time. You began? Oh, that wasn't the first time. That wasn't the first time. What time was that?

12:56That was just like a few months before in Miami. Oh, Miami. She beat me before. She kicked her ass or was it close? No, it wasn't close. Like two and three, is that close? No. No. Confirmed. Thank you, John. I didn't need a couple games were close and it just turned around that fast in three months yeah crazy and how just fearless I didn't I didn't care who was across the net it was like and also her and she had at that point had she gotten to her she was a defending champion she had several majors in the back and how old was she compared to you I don't know yeah but she there was a there was some pressure on the line you know there was like she's playing this young girl No one really knows much about her.

13:45It's a big moment for her. So I think she felt the moment, and I took complete advantage of it. Wow. And her greatness, we all know her. Back then, could you take the timeouts that you take now? The bathroom break? Yeah, the long. I think before it started, I had to go to the bathroom because I was so nervous. Well, that's par for the course for everyone. Yeah, exactly. That's true. Okay, so you beat her. I beat her. But besides just, we all know the stats, right? We all know the numbers of majors. But being across the net, like her accuracy, first of all, her accuracy on the serve is the greatest.

14:21She has the greatest serve of anyone. And it's powerful. Yes. And it's not, that's the thing, is that it's not powerful. Her toss is in the same place every single time. Usually with players on break point, they're a little nervous. There will be hints of where they're going to serve. It's robotic. Same place every time. And it's not even about power. Because after like 110 miles an hour in women's tennis, it's fast. Like if it's 120, it doesn't matter. But it is so accurately placed on the biggest of points. And that is the biggest difference. Yeah. That little, little. Margins. Yeah. It's all about the little margins.

15:00And you feel it. You know, when you play against her, I don't know if this is something you noticed when you watched her matches. First point of every first set, she's serving wide. I think she kind of gets in the rhythm but it doesn't fucking matter because the serve is so good even though you know it doesn't matter so I just did you ever have that conversation with her? about her serve? no and it's just I got to experience that greatness every single time and the forehand and backhand were also pretty accurate her forehand not as much as her backhand Was there any camaraderie at the beginning?

15:40Was it just enemies until the end? There was deep respect, but it was like you're getting in the way of what we both won, which is the championship trophy. There's space for one. I don't want you on that podium. There's 126 players? 28. 28. Same fucking thing. But there's only one winner. There's only one winner. And whoever's across the net, and a lot of times it was her toward the semis, final. that's and then this whole narrative just launched when you win where it's like Serena's got competition yeah so and how is it compared to her sister as the as relates to the accuracy on the serve she was just she was more consistent like with Venus you can get a few airs she would sometimes be a little shaky and when I mean shaky like rarely right but we're comparing her to Serena you know she didn't play all the majors she had more injuries so I felt like she was She was just persist.

16:36Serena was persistently there. Okay. All right. Serena is on her list. Number two, I'm going to say Monica Sellis. I played Monica Sellis. I played her twice. And I remember this one match specifically at the beginning of my career was in Palm Springs. I'm very young. I had a wild card. I win my first round. I draw Monica. I lose. I think it was like one and one, one and oh. I come off the court and I think to myself I felt like I just played the best match of my life I played so well there was nothing that I could do better and she smoked me like you weren't even there like I wasn't even there, I didn't belong there nothing I didn't even cry because I was like there's nothing the level was so far I was 16, 15, 16 it was like my first wild card in a big event and I just come off the court and I'm like, well, I guess that's greatness.

17:32Right. And this is how far I have to go. Right. And if you think about like stats and I'm not like a stats person, but she won eight majors before she got stabbed. Yeah. When she was 19 years old. She was number one in the world. I looked at doing this. I looked at that. I had to. It's so crazy that they could get that close. Yeah. It's crazy. and also that young yeah she was the youngest u.s open champion she was from chicago right she was seven 16 or 17 when she won the french she was 16 when she won the open i believe you don't you didn't have that experience and instead like you were inspired by that you weren't like fuck i'm just never going to be able to do this no i just thought what i i just got at that point when you get smoke like one i remember losing to lindsey davenport 6-0 6-0 and you just come off the court and you're like, it's just a bad day.

18:25It was a bad day. It was just a bad day. Yeah. But her, you could just see, I mean, and also her focus. Like, not so many greats I got to play against, such as the next couple I'll talk about, but when you see that determination, like that is a quality. And how old was she at the end? 19? 20? No, she was at the end of her career. I was just at the beginning, and that was the last time I played her. Wow. Okay. My third is Steffi Graf.

18:53You know, things I liked about her is that she was someone that was like all in. There were no distractions. I feel like so many stars today, they're like faced with just opportunities. They're doing things off the court. And a lot of that is great. But when I think of Steffi, I think of the ultimate professional. She owns all tennis. I think of a – and what does that lead to? Greatness. Perfection, yeah. It leads to greatness. Was she a nice lady? Seemed like it. I've gotten to know her since. When I met her a couple of times, she was incredible. But also the same, like very stoic, just very calm.

19:30Nothing seems to faze her. Like just very professional about how she goes. And that was inspiring, right? Because when you get to the top and you look at like greats, like how did they handle success? She was an example. And that slice, I mean, I would have hated to play against that slice. Yeah. You're laughing because you know it's true? No, I'm laughing. The slices sort of come out of the game. You don't hear about the slices much, how effective it was. The older days, oh, they don't play like that. It's a crappy shot, but it's a very effective one. And you don't think it happens now? Very rarely.

20:09No, a lot of two-handed back. Am I wrong? No, you're right. They're trying to work on it because they realize it can be effective. Effective. Something different. The drop shot. But she was dominantly a slicer on her back end. Almost all the time. Like 90-not 80. That is rare. That would not happen. No, that wouldn't happen. Because of the two-handed backhand? No, because I don't think they could handle the pace. I don't think you can hit a slice off of a flat, hard shot. Speak for yourself.

20:43Anything else you want to add, John? No, you're doing a tremendous job. What's your fourth? My last one is Chrissy Everett. I had gotten to know Chrissy since retiring, and she was always on my mood board when I was designing looks with Nike. She was class, but she brought an element to the game that I think transcended just being a champion. There's not many people that did things off the court that I could look back to. She was one of the first. One of the first. So this goes to your criteria and your criteria. It's not only on the court. Transcending. Transcending. Yes, absolutely. Certainly the young kids growing up were, when I was growing up, it was like Chrissy Everett.

21:27Oh, my God. How did she pick up the game? Her father was a tennis pro in Florida. But she never lost. And her father liked me, believe it or not. So she was always mad at me because I acted up and her father wouldn't let her do anything of the sort. Had to keep everything in and be just right. Not show any emotions. Yeah. Why do you like John then? you know. He's not my son. Yeah, maybe that's it. Yeah. Oh, your turn. My turn. My turn. Okay, those are very strong selections. Thank you very much. Are you being sarcastic there? No. Are you sure? Of course not. Those are, you know, tremendous selections.

22:04I'm going to agree with her, obviously, with Serena. I would definitely put Serena on there. I mean, in addition to the serve being the greatest serve in the history of women's tennis and one of the greatest servers, period, she's one of the greatest competitors period. I put her up there with the person sitting next to me. I mean, in my opinion, if you had a Mount Rushmore of greatest athletes, she might be on that list. Yes, and that's the other part. She might be on that list. One of the all-time greatest athletes, male or female, in the last 100 years. I agree with that. And in addition to that, the heart, that will.

22:38So if you combine all those things together, I think it's pretty clear. And her physical attributes were incredible. I mean, she was just very intimidating, you know, just in so many different ways. So you see how difficult it would be to have to play against her. The next person I would also agree with be Steffi Graff, who I consider possibly as good as or better athletically as anyone I've ever seen in men or women in the sport of tennis. Unbelievable. We've never agreed this much before, John. Do you think, I mean, these are hypotheticals, but if she did not have that accident? No, that was Monica.

23:17Sorry. Monica. You said Stephanie. This is Stephanie. Who I practiced with at times. We had the same. In retirement? No, before that. Before that. We actually played mixed doubles once at Wimbledon. That's a whole other story. But we did practice when we were both sort of at our best. And I was like, she was great in practice. She was just unbelievable. The focus was there, the athleticism, the intensity. She's got a lot of those attributes that Serena had, but you need in order to have the type of success they had. 24 majors, 22 majors. That's just singles. Can I ask you, were you allowed to, like, throw your racket?

23:54Throw my racket? Like in front of her? Did you feel because she's so professional that you have to be a little more professional? That's sort of like the same question. When did you stop throwing the racket? Or did you ever stop throwing the racket? I get paid to throw it. I used to get fined, but now I get paid if I ever go in the court. I had that same issue that you brought up, which is true with Bjorn Borg, because he never showed anything. So anything I did made me look more of an asshole than I already was. So, yes. But didn't you kind of love that, or you hated that? You hated people thinking you were an asshole.

24:23I thought I was, you know, I loved it. I'm not sure I loved it, but I tried to be who I was, and I was like, they don't understand a fair portion of me. I'm not actually that person. but on the court I got a little crazy. But off the court I was different. All right, we got Stephanie. Was he off the court, not crazy? No, just a little bit, but nowhere near like I was on the court. You did walk out of a pickleball match, but let's not go there. Walk out or, you know, walk out in disgust or we lost. You guys played doubles together? We played doubles. It was so embarrassing he got mad at me and basically left without saying goodbye.

25:02That's because she didn't practice. she wasn't you're like you're like the Larry practice talk about you're like the Larry David of when he gets stand up he'd walk out see the crowd and goes no not this time no no I didn't walk out we played we lost and I did what I had to do and I hugged Marie and I said thank you for playing twice in six months I appreciate that no you didn't you made a very quick exit you know look maybe miss building right now I'm hearing a different story here very different story but it's okay go ahead who's your third no go ahead if you want to no who's your third My third is Billie Jean King.

25:36Because I think single-handedly, out of the last 100 years, she's done more for women's sports than any person on the planet. And also, she's an incredible tennis player. And in addition to that, the battle of the sexes. So where were you with the battle of the sexes? I was just watching in New York at my home. Did you have a party? She threw it. What's he doing? Did you have a party? No, I was 14 years old. We went, my parents took us to, I don't know whose house, the Jaffees, I think it was. And, like, it was, yeah, it was a huge, like, party. I mean, men and women talking about it was crazy.

26:15That moment was crazy. You know, I was only 14, so at that time I was still trying to, like, figure out cheap because Bobby Riggs had beaten Mark McCourt 6-2, 6-1. So it was like, oh, okay, but this is going to be. This is real. We didn't get that. We missed that. He's going to beat her. We've got Kiryo Sabalenka. Exactly. So just the combination of her talent and her just drive to make women treated equally is unbelievable. Until this day. Until this day she still doesn't. She goes to every single big women's event there is. Every sporting event, she is there. Really? Everyone, volleyball, soccer, anything, she's there.

26:58Olympics. She goes to the opening of an envelope? If it has to do with... I just like saying that. Was Title IX passed prior and she just enforced it? No, she was part of the reason Title IX had. Absolutely. How many majors did she win? I believe 12 singles, but like 50 overall, you know, mixed in doubles. She won a bunch of those. And, you know, she played, had seven surgeries. They have a lot better doctors now that you can recover. Anyway, she would throw her in. There's honorable mentions. You still got to pick your fourth. Can I throw my... No. No, no, no. No. You have to pick your fourth in any major.

27:36Martina Navratilova would be my fourth pick. Not only because she's a fellow lefty. Because she was an incredible player. Obviously, I believe the same amount of singles majors as Chrissy Everett. And she had the same amount of focus. They played 80 times, which is unheard of at any one. I believe that Martina had an edge 43-37. Is that why you chose her over Chrissy? No, I chose her because even though I love Chrissy, Martina, when she came into the sport and she had to defect and leave at like 16, 18 years old and leave her family and suddenly she's on her own. She was checked? She was checked.

28:14And then in addition to that, which is tough enough and to try to be the best player in the world, to play Chris Everett's of the world, she lost all her sponsorships because she came out and said she was gay. So she lost all that. But she continued to forge ahead. And despite all that energy that you have to deal with. Can you imagine back then coming out? 1979 or 80. And saying that. It was crazy. And lost all the sponsorships, everything, and people looking at her. Even though she continued to win. And that to me is extremely difficult to do. So that would be my forward. Do I get to throw my arm right?

28:52No, not until we get out. Then we can talk about You can When we're picking the final four We can spitball This has never happened But I have the exact same list as John Oh wow Really? Really You're a lot You're smarter than English I have the exact same list Let me see it Alright then I'm gonna go As you pull it up Okay Of course Serena Look Wow Oh wow this But then I I switched it at the end Oh The exact same list I have Steffi Graf Are you going to I'm not giving All you have to do is read it If you've already decided I'm not giving You guys You guys Kind of give your I did have actually And I It didn't make the top four But I had Margaret Court on there Pre-open era Pre-open era No but that counts That counts She played Into some of the open era Yeah Okay But I'm going to go with Wait, can you just explain this?

29:52The reason why people weighed down pre-open era is because you could play, pros couldn't play in the opens. So you're getting slams, but they're not competing in the games. You didn't make any, there was no money. Money, yeah. So in order to make a living, you had to turn pro. And then if you turned pro, you weren't allowed to play the majors. Got it. So Rod Laver, for example, won the Grand Slam in 1962. Turned pro and wasn't able to play for five straight years any majors. and they opened up the sport finally everyone could play in 68 69 he won the grand slam for the second time he's the only male player that's ever done that and um think of the 20 majors in between if he was that good from 62 to 60 how many he would have won in those 20 and there were wood rackets uh he started they were but you know he was one of the first to try to use like steel and Speaking of Grand Slam, Steffi's the only one to win a Golden Slam, right?

30:51She won the Olympics. She's the only one. Yeah. She's the only one. The Olympics. In the same year. Boss. Same year. Okay, and then I go. Who's your fourth? Well, I only had two. Who are you? I had two only so far. John's already done with you. You said Steffi. You said Serena. Okay, that's two. Margaret Court. I said I was going to pick Margaret Court. I didn't pick Margaret Court. She's on my back list there. Oh, you're okay. Yeah, he's allowed to have a back list. Yeah, yeah. I made the call to you to do this. Jesus Christ. These are the rules. I just make them up as I go. These are the rules.

31:25In this building, Martina. So we have Steffi, we have Serena, we got Martina. And then I said Chris Everett. This is the most consensus we've ever had in an evening. Well, it's pretty easy. The only one I did have, because I'm glad you added that, I did have, you know, I did pick Billie Jean King just because of what she did for the sport, but I didn't think she was the best tennis player. She was good. She was better than good. She was great. But yes, I think overall, if you... See, Margaret Court. Margaret Court won a fair amount of matches, but you know, I'd like to throw... What happens next?

32:05What happens next? You know who also was incredible, but... You know who also was incredible, but... You have to pay me for that. Jennifer Capriotti, who is... insane but i don't remember her uh jennifer capriati she was incredible was a great great ball striker no question about it my honorable mention would be venus you know what would you have to throw venus because i think i put hennon over clijsters i put hennon over clijsters i would throw her in and i wouldn't put monica i have monica would be my next choice because of what you know she had to deal with and uh how successful she was but um justine hennon was my favorite that I ever watched play.

32:42She was the most beautiful player I ever watched play. Yvonne Gouligan was my favorite player growing up. Female player. She was absolutely outstanding. I don't know. She seemed beautiful. And she was just an elegant, beautiful, classy player. And won seven majors. Was in a bunch of other ones. Can I ask you a question? Monica Celeste. How many do you think she would have won? 20. Yeah. More. She was dominating. Eight slams by the age of 19 Just PTSD Just never can be the same after something like that You just never trust the court again Court? What about your body? Her mind, her body, and her soul So fucked up Did she win after that?

33:25Why did that happen? Did she win after that? She won one major She got to the finals of the Open in 95 She didn't play for two and a half years You played her after that and she still smoked you like that Insane Thank you. I can still feel it. And then she won the Australian in 96. But, you know. Brother, that's an incredible effort to go from that to win a slam. She had, like, blisters. You know, when she played the Open, she hadn't played in so long. And she got to the final because she was such a great competitor. Put her feet by the end of it. And guess who she lost to? Steffi. So, you know, Steffi was, you know, moved.

34:06She was... Steffi was coming. Well, Steffi was there already, but Monica was number one. I mean, Steffi was two. Do you think there are any players right now that you would imagine would make this list, if we made this list in 10 years? Yeah. All of them. I would say that there's certainly an argument if Sabalenka keeps, you know, moving along at the pace she has the last couple years. You could talk about, certainly, with those, at the very worst, the honorable mentions. and also Rabakina to me has got the best serve I've ever seen other than Serena. Really? But is her mind there? Why do you say that?

34:41The mind is a whole other major issue. You mean her toss is consistent? She's a tall girl. It's just a smooth motion. She has great rhythm. And it's powerful but it's easy power. That's crazy about Serena's serve too. She's not even that tall. She's pretty tall. Well, she's 5 '10", 5 '11". I think she's 5 '11". She's 5 '9". Her presence makes her look taller. Got it, got it, got it. Okay, we got a final four. We do already? No, we just got to do it. We got to do it. All right, so Serena's on there. Yep. Steffi Graf's on there. Yep. I mean, it seems like Chrissy's on there and Martina's on there.

35:20Or I guess Billie. I put Billie Jean on there without a doubt. You know, just for what she did. But that's true. How many majors did she win? She won 12 singles. No, no, we're not just talking singles. I'm going to say 40. No, how many singles? 12. How many did Chrissy Everett win? 22. 18. And Martina was 23? 18, no, they're both 18, right? Serena's 23. Serena's 24. So you can't throw her. I mean, I know what she did for the game is so important. Yeah. But I think you got to, I think that. You're going to throw her off? I think it's got to be outweighed. Who makes the final decision? Or is that a dumb question?

36:03No, we all have to decide. I just think that... You guys are the experts. Martina or Chrissy? That's a tough call. There's an argument for both of them. Okay, so start arguing. Let's start arguing. I agree with Chrissy. Why? I think Martina, especially with the equipment of now, and her training and the intensity of it and just everything that she was willing to put out there, I would give her the slight edge over Chrissy. But Chrissy mentally, I would give an edge over. She was the toughest mentally of almost anyone I ever saw playing court male or female. And I think she transcended the sport.

36:44Like if we're talking about impact. Yeah, that hits your Billie Jean King. Yeah. If we talk about impact, I think Chrissy. Because she was American? Yeah. Yeah, when I think, if you give me those two names right now, I'd say Chrissy. Like, who impacted me, who I thought of, who was on my mood board, it was Chrissy. That's true. It's a tough call. It's like, can we have a tie? No, you can't. Well, there's space for two. There is space for both of them, but not if we put it on Billy. Because we only have Snacky and Street. You can put both Chrissy and Marquina. You can put them both on, but Billie Jean King's got to get off of it.

37:13Are you okay with that, emotionally? Emotionally. Not emotionally. Will I be able to sleep tonight? Will you be able to? I can see that in terms of the talent. I can see it's just hard to not put her on a Mount Rushmore. And he looks. Be Billie Jean King. Yeah. Okay, then pick between Chrissy and Ray. I think Billy's got to be on Rushmore. We're at an impasse. Are you okay with that? Yeah. No, we're at an impasse. No, we're not. No, we are. No, we're going to pick one. Maria's picked Chrissy. I've picked Martina. We've agreed on three. We've agreed on, okay, we are agreed on both. Mount Rushmore is four.

37:50Exactly. So we've disagreed Who the four should be Between Martina and Chrissy I picked Martina Who did you pick? I picked both of them You didn't choose Martina You chose Chrissy He chose them both It's your fucking podcast Only we had Billy I'm the only one You had Billy The ball is between Chrissy And Martina God, they played 80 times. Can you sort of put them... Well, who had more slams? Martina. Martina more overall. They had the same amount of single slams. But Martina also beat Chrissy in their 88. Chrissy had a better record, I think, in terms of their slam record, I think. I have to look that up.

38:39Who was number one for longer? I believe Martina was. Martina was. But I mean, Chrissy didn't lose a batch in 10 years. Yeah, let's make a decision. Should we flip a coin? I'm going Martina. Go Chrissy. I think we need a coin. All right. I thought she was a better player, Martina. I'm going Martina. Okay, Martina it is. God, look at the... Chrissy, don't be mad at me. I love you. No, she's going to be mad at you. She is going to be. Yeah. That's okay. She knows I love her. Okay, our final four is Serena Williams, Steffi Graf, Billie Jean King, and Martina Navratilova. I think that's a good list.

39:17You feel pretty good. You feel pretty good? I'm just glad I got through this. That's a great list. You did excellent. Maria. You're a pro.