Aleksandra Crapanzano

14:29Aleksandra Crapanzano:The chev's layers and layers and layers of cheeses, yeah.

14:34Ruth Reichl:And if you asked for creme fraiche, they would just take a big ladle and pull it out of a big container, and you would just see the cream kind of drip into your little container and take it home, and it just, it was so real. And then we, you know, I started to, as I began to learn French better and better, I would go into food shops and I would listen to the dialogue between the customer and the shopkeeper. And I think that was really the beginning of my food education. You know, there was a process by which you could tell that the customer had to prove that whatever they were going to do was worthy of, let's say, the best cut of meat.

15:16Ruth Reichl:That there was a kind of a courtship and an assessment going on. And then once that was established, then it would be a conversation about whatever that dish was going to be. And then suddenly, say it is the butcher, he would start to talk about how to prepare the meat. And then they would look at the different. It was such a, it was not a transaction. It was a dialogue. Did you understand seasonality from France? Yes.

15:40Aleksandra Crapanzano:Do you think that going to the markets and seeing that the vegetable you saw last week was gone?

15:46Ruth Reichl:Yeah. Yeah. No, absolutely. And I also remember the incredible attention, right, paid to whether they were, remember, we would get moussat grapes. And they'd be in a tiny little beautiful kind of almost origami-like, you know, carton with paper just kind of ballooning over them so that nothing touched them. that there was a real sense of, you know, or Frise des Bois, you know, that there was a moment where all of Paris would be excited when wild strawberries came in and you would see people walking in the streets carrying these kind of precious cartons of strawberries and then they would disappear.

16:25Ruth Reichl:That kind of ephemeral charm was absolutely something. You know, John said this to me once. He said, you know, it was the place where your family as a whole was happiest. Yes. And I hadn't thought about that until then, but my father loved writing in cafes. My mother was just, like, in her element working. I had suddenly discovered a confidence that I didn't have and an ability to be independent, and the city just had such an extraordinary romantic hold on me.

16:58Aleksandra Crapanzano:I think there's also something about Paris, which is, apart from the food and the music, everything else of Paris is I get a thrill from the lighting at night. Oh, yeah. And you can be, you know, and apparently Paris is lit by the same department, you know. And so I think that's kind of amazing that what you see at the Envalide, you'll see a bigal. And for me, that kind of unity is something I love. I never thought of that.

17:24Ruth Reichl:It's that golden glow. The lights are beautiful.

17:27Aleksandra Crapanzano:Did your parents encourage you to cook?

17:30Ruth Reichl:No, but what happened is my mother had an American assistant because, you know, those were the days where you typed instead of had a computer. So before she turned on a piece, it had to really be typed up with all of her notes. And so this American who would kind of be a babysitter as well to me in the evening once took a skillet, put some ketchup in it, turned the heat on, and put a box of dried spaghetti in it. Oh, my gosh. No water. And that was supposed to be dinner. She cooked it in the towel. And I thought to myself, no way. So I started cooking when my parents went out. And I realized I was, I guess I was cooking for the babysitter.

18:13Ruth Reichl:And I just wanted the food to be good. How old were you then? I was probably 10 or 11 or 12. And I remember I would always cook. I would get, because the chicken is so good in France, I would roast a chicken, deglaze it, you know, the pan with white wine, add a ton of creme fraiche, a little Dijon, a lot of tarragon. And that still is one of my all-time favorite meals. So I did that. And then, you know, when I went to friends' houses, I realized that, you know, there was always a little something sweet. I mean, you learn to make yogurt cake at the age of five in every single school in France. And then you have this recipe that you have for life, which I love.

19:06Aleksandra Crapanzano:Was it shocking for you to go to Harvard? You went to Harvard and Cambridge. Yes. And was that a big adjustment to suddenly be on your own in America, in the United States?

19:17Ruth Reichl:I thought, you know what, I've lived all over the world. I, you know, I can totally handle this. And I remember walking into, at that point it was called the Union Dining Hall at Harvard, where there were, you know, 1 ,200 people eating and it was incredibly noisy. And I suddenly just lost all my confidence. And I walked and I got a muffin at this little place called Warburton's. And for about the first week, I don't think I actually went into the cafeteria again. And then once I made friends and would meet people. But it was daunting. And then I had all of these strange things I didn't know how to do.

19:53Ruth Reichl:I'd never used a microwave. So the first time I went to put something in a microwave, I remember I was actually trying to take the pasta and heat it because it was part of the salad bar, which I thought was odd. It's like freezing cold, sticky pasta. And so I'd put some butter on it, and I wanted to put it in the microwave, and I put a fork in. And I remember... Oh, you put a fork in the microwave. And I remember somebody screaming,

20:19Aleksandra Crapanzano:Yeah.

20:20Ruth Reichl:Don't turn that on. And I was like, why? I had no idea. And I learned, I basically think at Harvard I ate peanut butter, strawberry jam, and banana sandwiches for most of it. The food was really horrible. Was your first job involved with food or was it film? Well, it kind of was. My first job was working for Mike Nichols. And Mike did not want his wife, Diane Sawyer, to know what he was eating because he was supposed to be on a very strict heart diet. So part of my job was to go into his trailer and make a pasta. Oh, really? And we were all hooked up by walkie-talkies. So if Diane was coming to set, I would get this message of, you know, open the windows, light the Higo candle, you know, get Mike his Altoids.

21:10Ruth Reichl:Do you think she was suspicious?

21:12Aleksandra Crapanzano:Because she was a great journalist. She probably knew exactly what he was doing.

21:15Ruth Reichl:I think she knew and allowed it. And then at night, I remember on that set, I would be given thousands of dollars in cash, and a teamster would take me to Peter Luger's to get steak. It's a great steakhouse in Brooklyn where they, I don't know how long they age those porterhouse steaks, but it's incredible, right? I mean, it's just, it's amazing, thick, fantastic steak. So I would get these wads of cash and a teamster would take me to Peter Luger's and then you know It was kind of for above the line Jack Nicholson Mike Michelle there a bunch of people who would get the steak and then I could take home the leftovers Could you

21:54Aleksandra Crapanzano:Fall in love with somebody who didn't care about food. Never never could you

21:59Ruth Reichl:I was thinking about that today is one of one of my very first meetings in film actually was was a producer took me out to lunch, wanted to option a script of mine, and he took me to the worst restaurant I've ever been to. And I thought, no way. It was a mistake, because he turned out to be the better producer. But it's...

22:22Aleksandra Crapanzano:Oh, he did turn out to be a good producer.

22:24Ruth Reichl:He did, but I didn't. I should have worked with him. I thought you were going to say it was consistent with him. No, I thought, you know what, I can't possibly spend the next three years on a movie with somebody who doesn't like food. No, it is, to me, eating together is family. I started food writing because I started in film, and I didn't really write about food until Garrick was born. In 2007, there was a writer's guild strike, and I thought, you know what, let me send an article into the New York Times magazine on food. It was on French food, and that suddenly launched a side career. but to me food was always cooking was very much associated with with feeding my family when you

23:12Aleksandra Crapanzano:write these four fantastic books how do you eat while you're do you sit down and have lunch or do

23:20Ruth Reichl:you kind of graze all day or do you have nothing uh I do probably graze when I'm when I'm cooking because you don't because you're taking little bites of things kind of throughout the day I do really, really believe in sitting down to dinner. Yeah. I don't care so much about the rest of the day. I mean, do you graze when you are, you must in the kitchen.

23:42Aleksandra Crapanzano:In the restaurant, basically you don't eat until the end of service. And then, and it's interesting to see how different chefs eat, you know, some of the, and the front of house. You know, front of house, the waiters pile food and all, we cook our food for the staff. So everybody eats River Cafe food. We don't buy any food. It's almost like they try to impress their friends. Different chefs do the staff lunch. I've had friends like Josh come at the end of a dinner and go and look and see what the staff or what pasta is there. I wish I could have that. It looks really good.

24:21Ruth Reichl:I have such a happy memory when I was writing the London cookbook, which truly was inspired by you entirely. and my desire to come and spend time at the River Cafe and learn and watch.

24:32Aleksandra Crapanzano:But it's a great book of many restaurants.

24:34Ruth Reichl:I had so much fun writing that. You know, that was an important book for me, I think. I felt that there was something happening in London that was incredibly exciting that I really do believe that you and Fergus kind of started, which was the idea that a restaurant could be delicious and fun and warm and sexy. It's just, you truly redefined to me the London restaurant. And I just, I felt enormously inspired to come and write about what you do. And also the way that, you know, the way that you teach, the way that you work with your younger cooks and the way that you, I would, it was so gentle and precise at the same time.

25:33And so different from, you know, the kind of crazy Marco Pierre White,

25:37Ruth Reichl:you know, where everybody's tense and it's kind of a Machiavellian world. And I would just watch you, you know, with a gentlest but very precise way of kind of offering a little suggestion or a correction or a taste.

25:52Aleksandra Crapanzano:Watching people were doing it at the, you know, Fergus, as you say, I think Alice Walters thought about the way people could work in an open kitchen and treat each other with manners and the way. And as I said, I agree with you. I said it used to be that if you wanted to eat well, you had to dress up and behave. Or else if you wanted to have a good time, you'd say, okay, I want to have a good time in a restaurant, but the food won't be as good. Why can't you have really good food and have fun and in a democratic space?

26:25Ruth Reichl:I also, you know, almost every really great cook, chef in London has been through the River Cafe. You know, I mean, and that's why I wanted to do the family tree in the book, because you taught a generation, and that generation taught another generation, and you're still teaching generations. And so what you have done has had this extraordinary impact on restaurants throughout the world, the city and the world.

26:52Aleksandra Crapanzano:Well, I think it's great for the culture, and it's great when they go. and you go to their restaurants and they're cooking exciting things or doing it their way. But I think a lot of them bring takeaway as much as the cooking and the way they respect the seasons or the food, of how they're going to, you know, the ingredients, the quality, is the ethos, you know, of trying to have a kitchen where people are, you know. I think that old idea of the bullying and the shouting is really old-fashioned.

27:24Ruth Reichl:Very old-fashioned.

27:25Aleksandra Crapanzano:You know, and I think people aren't going to put up with that anymore, and nor should they.

27:29Ruth Reichl:No, no.

27:40Aleksandra Crapanzano:Sitting with these three books, like Paris, there is a consistency of the books, whether it's the illustrations. I really am so interested in the fact that you have no photographs. Tell me about that.

27:54Ruth Reichl:So, Gâteau and Chocolat are really, to me, part of a series. And so next I'm going to do Tarts and Galettes and Quiche. And what I wanted to do with this series is I wanted to really focus in on what Parisians make at home. And particularly for Americans, I think, to kind of separate this idea that I think a lot of people have when they go to Paris, that people, you know, see Pâtisserie and they assume that that is French sweet making. And in fact, when you kind of when you go into people's houses, they do cook desserts, they do bake, they bake very, very simply. And, and I realized that that had not really been written about that there were no books on kind of basic French cakes, or, you know, all of the chocolate desserts that you can actually make at home.

28:43Ruth Reichl:And then I wanted, you know, so many of my French friends will quickly make a tart for dinner. Very simple. Could be a tomato tart. You know, it could be something in the winter with some cheese and lardin and melted onions. But it's such a simple thing. And I think there's something economical about it and easy about it. And it's less meat focused. It's also more vegetable focused. So that one will be savory as well. But I chose, I really chose to have the books illustrated because I didn't want people to feel that they had to compete with a photograph. And I think this is particularly true for desserts, but I didn't want somebody to think that they had to take out a pastry bag and create perfect little roses on top of their cake.

29:30Ruth Reichl:I wanted them to just not compare themselves, to know that they could just bake a cake. Oh, that's back to the performance. Yeah, and sprinkle it with some powdered sugar or some cocoa, and, you know, it's gorgeous in its simplicity. So we look forward. When is the next one coming out? Oh, I haven't started writing it yet. Okay, go home.

29:46Aleksandra Crapanzano:You've got to start working now. We want another cookbook.

29:51Ruth Reichl:Thank you, Ruth. You're beautiful. We could talk for another two hours.

29:54Aleksandra Crapanzano:But to say that, you know, you were talking about peanut butter and jelly sandwiches at Harvard, and you were talking about pressing your nose up. I can imagine this 10-year-old girl walking through Paris with her nose pressed against the window to look at the food, whether it's an orange or a piece of cake or a piece of cheese. Food is all this. It's about sharing. It's about performance. It's about curiosity and energy and love, but it's also about comfort. So I think if I were to ask you as our last question, if you needed comfort, I hope we don't, is there a food that you would go to that that you would reach for?

30:37Ruth Reichl:I would make a carbonara.

30:38Aleksandra Crapanzano:Would you? In a heartbeat.

30:41Ruth Reichl:I mean, there's nothing that offers more comfort than pasta, and particularly that pasta to me, because it's so simple. You always have all the ingredients for a carbonara on hand. It takes no time, and there's a, oh, I mean, the pancetta or the guanciale and the cheese, it's exactly what you need. I cannot resist a carbonara. Do you make it with one type of pasta or do you make it with different ones? I, you know, sometimes spaghetti, sometimes linguine. I know that if I have only short pasta in the house, I'll do that. But I do, I feel that to me part of comfort is the twirling. If I want real comfort.

31:27Ruth Reichl:Oh, do you? That's interesting. I do really want to twirl. Yeah, to twirl. It must go back to childhood. I mean, there's something in that act. I also love storing risotto, for example. I think risotto is very... There's something very... But that's longer. If I want comfort and I want it right away, it's a carbonara.

31:46Aleksandra Crapanzano:Okay, we'll have one together.

31:48Ruth Reichl:Yes. Okay. Thank you, Alison. Oh, my total pleasure.

31:56Aleksandra Crapanzano:Ruthie's Table 4 is proud to support Leukemia UK. Their Cartwheel for a Cure campaign raises funds for vital research and more effective and kinder treatments for acute myeloid leukemia. Please donate, and to do so, search Cartwheel for a Cure. Ruthie's Table 4 was produced by Alex Bell, Robbie Hamilton, and Zad Rogers, with Andrew Sang and Bella Salini. This has been an Atomize production for iHeartMedia.

32:38Aleksandra Crapanzano:This is the biggest night in podcasting. The countdown is on to our 2026 iHeart Podcast Awards. Live from South by Southwest, March 16th, we'll honor the very best in podcasting from the past year and celebrate the most innovative, talented creators in the industry. It's truly a who's who of the podcasting world. creativity, knowledge, and passion will all be on full display. And the winner of the iHeart Podcast Award is... See all the nominees now at iHeart.com slash podcast awards. Audible is a proud sponsor of the Audible Audio Pioneer Award. Explore the best selection of audiobooks, podcasts, and originals all in one easy app.

33:17Aleksandra Crapanzano:Audible. There's more to imagine when you listen. Sign up for a free trial at audible.com. Babes, what are you doing? What? I'm just mowing the lawn. No, it's blazing hot and dry out here. Don't you remember? Smokey Bear says... Avoid using power equipment when it's windy or dry. Where'd you learn this? Oh, it's on... SmokeyBear.com with many other wildfire prevention tips. Right. Thanks, honey bear.

33:46Ruth Reichl:Because remember, only you can prevent wildfires. Brought to you by the USDA Forest Service, your state forester, and the Ad Council.

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