Ambassador Jane Hartley

0:00This is an iHeart Podcast.

0:30Experience cloud-like comfort with high-resilience foam that's hypoallergenic and never needs fluffing. The sturdy steel frame ensures longevity, and the modular pieces can be rearranged anytime. Check out washablesofas.com and get up to 60 % off your Anabay sofa, backed by a 30-day satisfaction guarantee. If you're not absolutely in love, send it back for a full refund. No return shipping or restocking fees. Every penny back. Upgrade now at washablesofas.com. Offers are subject to change, and certain restrictions may apply. You are listening to Ruthie's Table 4 in partnership with Montclair. Jane Hartley was the American ambassador to France and Monaco, and now to the court of St.

1:15James. She has the qualities necessary for the role in abundance, leadership, resilience, duty. I know the qualities she has as a close friend, kindness, empathy, humor, and love. I've witnessed Jane negotiating difficult situations and people, impressed by her curiosity, strength, and integrity. She has the courage to challenge others, and though a diplomat, to say what she thinks. In the two years she's been the ambassador to the Court of St. James, Jane has had two monarchs, three prime ministers, four chancellors, and a late-stage pandemic. She works rigorously to be informed. Her husband, Ralph Schlossstein, is a committed cook and knows almost more about food than I do, giving serious attention to serious wines.

2:08He and a group of friends meet every Monday, discovering new restaurants, and apparently his lifetime ambition is to find the best pizza in New York City. I always introduce Jane as Ambassador Hartley, but my nickname for her is Miss Sparkle. I don't think I've ever seen her without sequins on a sweater, a dress, earrings, or even the shoes she's wearing today. Jane has just been in the kitchen with Joseph, cooking a Dover sole. Now we're going to get together to talk about work, duty, family, and food. I know she will be informed, and I know she will sparkle. Thank you, Ruthie. Thank you. So what was it like being in the kitchen?

2:53I don't think I've ever sat at a table where you didn't order Dover Soul. I order Dover Soul every time I come, and you have by far the best Dover Soul that I've ever had. I was asking where he got it from, and of course it's from the U.K. But you do something special in terms of the cooking and in terms of my capers. I always ask if you'll add capers, and you do. That's unusual because some people want capers off. Oh, yeah, I love capers. Do you love capers? But literally, I said to you when I walked in today, I come into this restaurant and I feel like I'm home. And no matter how hard my day is, and some days are pretty hard, I see you and I sit at that corner table and have my Dover sole and my usually April spritz.

3:35Yeah, April spritz. But that's what conversely we feel when we see you coming in, that you're family. And I think that it isn't just how you can relate to a restaurant sometimes is being taken care of, you know, and that's, we always tell the people work for us, you know, take care. Well, you do it perfectly. I only, I only know one other person who's also a friend of yours because everybody's a friend of Ruthie's, but Danny Meyer, who's a friend of mine from New York. And when he started his restaurants, he said what he wanted to provide was service that everybody came in and felt that, you know, they were known, they were taken care of and it was home.

4:14And you did that better than anybody. Well, also you never know how people, when they walk into a restaurant, how they are feeling. They may be celebrating something or they may be grieving over something sad or they may just be, as you say, had a really tough day. And you do have tough days. Yeah, I do have tough days. I'm really grateful for the work you do. Because you grew up in Connecticut? I grew up in Connecticut, western Connecticut. Yeah. Did you have fish? Was that fish part of the... We had fish. Thank God she's no longer with us. She was a wonderful woman. But my mother was not the best cook, although it was interesting, because she cooked meat and fish quite well.

4:53So she cooked meat rare, which is how I like it, and she cooked fish moist. Now, vegetables, unfortunately, met their death in her kitchen. Vegetables are hard to cook. Oh, my Lord. What did she do? We don't want to be too hard on your mom. Well, she cooked them. I love my mother, but she cooked. Once Ralph, my husband, who is the best cook in the family. My son may be close, so. Kate and I, not so much. But my husband came once to, I think, a Thanksgiving dinner, and my mother uttered the words, you can't overcook a vegetable. And I thought Ralph was going to fall on the floor. She worked every day, did she?

5:32She worked. She did various jobs. Coming home, it was interesting. I don't think cooking was important to her in terms of feeding the family. My father, I think, was not a gourmet, although he was very interesting. He insisted on meat rare. So anytime we'd go out to dinner, and usually on Sunday evenings. Do you remember the restaurant? Were they the same restaurant, or would you go to different restaurants? There was one. I think it was called White Fence Inn. It was up in Litchfield County. The one thing I remember more than anything else, though, is I have a twin brother who I'm very close to.

6:07It's just the two of us. He's riding around in a car, and it was long before Waze and Google Maps and things, and them being lost. And my brother saying in the back seat, can't we just go anywhere? We're hungry. And your father would insist on the meat being rare when he ordered it in the restaurant? Yeah, meat being rare, and sometimes the drink first. Never wine with the meal, so that was interesting. That taste I developed later. cocktails. A cocktail first. Yeah. Cocktail first. Yeah. So more about growing up. So your mom worked, your father worked, and you would have, you know, would you and your brother sit down to dinner and your parents every night?

6:47Would you have a family meal? Pretty much, but we ate very quickly. My brother played a lot of sports, but it was wonderful. And then the other thing I remember from growing up, and it's what Ralph is doing now, which is after I participated in various athletics, and this was mainly swimming. After our swim meets, my father would take the whole team out to pizza. And I still remember the name of the pizza. What was it? Zachary's. Okay. Kind of an odd name for a pizza parlor. This was in Waterbury. This was in Waterbury, yeah. So you grew up with a, at the table, you know, were your parents in the discussion about politics or duty or being a citizen and giving something back?

7:28Was that imbued with it? Yeah, it really was. I mean, we always talked about politics. And my whole family had been in it kind of indirectly. My sister-in-law now, my sister-in-law currently is in the state Senate and she was deputy speaker. Of what state? In Connecticut. So we always had discussions about politics. Yes, that was something. And I think I was very young when President Kennedy was president. But the whole concept of ask what you can do for your country as opposed to what your country can do for you. Didn't get that exactly right. But that whole value in my parents, especially my father, frankly, that we were lucky to grow up in America.

8:16We were lucky to be there, that there was such a thing as the American dream. And because we were lucky, we also had a responsibility to give back. To give something back. I can remember, I think, where I was when Kennedy was shot. Were you in school? Oh, God, I do. Because I was in a classroom, were you? I was in a classroom, too. Yeah. You know, I think everybody remembers I was in a classroom also, and all the children had to leave school. So my father came to get us in his car. And I remember driving home, and my father was crying. He was crying. In my school, I was at a sort of what they call a central school.

8:52So we all bussed in because it was in the countryside. And it came over the loudspeaker. The buses would be outside. We were all going home. They didn't even tell us. They told us we were going. Did they tell you? They said the president had been shot. No, they didn't even tell us that. They just said, you're all going home. So I never heard. And in the car, my father was just crying finally. And did he participate in politics? He participated. He more participated indirectly. I think he did run for Senate once in Connecticut. Oh, well, that's a big deal. Well, State Senate. Yeah, still. He lost.

9:29Yeah, still. Yeah. But my family was always a little bit involved, yeah. And my mother's family had owned the newspaper until it went bankrupt. What went bankrupt? The paper went out of business. Your mother's family had a newspaper. Yeah, it was the Waterbury Democrat. Ran out of town by the Waterbury Republican. Were they? Tell me, why? There were two papers. Because you couldn't support two papers in one town. That's interesting. There was one called Democrat, and actually one was called Republican. Well, that tells you about bias in the press, maybe. Yeah, it does a little bit. And so when you left, though, when you went to college, did you have that sense that this is what you wanted to pursue, or did that come later?

10:12It's interesting. I kind of knew. I consider myself lucky because I remember when my children were growing up, I always sort of had this passion saying to my kids, find your passion, until I realized that was really the wrong thing to say to young people because many times you find your passion when you're 40, 50, however old you are, you find your passion, and it shouldn't be a burden for young people. I think there's something about finding your passion. I was just listening to Scott Galloway. I just had the passion, though. But we had the passion, yeah. He was saying, if you don't find the passion in your work, then find the passion in your family or something else.

10:51Yeah, exactly. And just say that the work is what will give me the ability to have the time for your passion. And you have a passion, a different listen. In my life, I've worked in the public sector. I've worked in the private sector. My passion is the public sector because I think that's where you can make a difference. but I've certainly worked in the private sector, which is much easier when you have a family. And I also moved to New York after the White House. So, you know, it's a balance. Life is a journey. Yeah, but you went straight from college to Washington. I did. I was very lucky. I was going to go to law school, but I didn't because I got an opportunity very, very early, which is sort of through luck and being in the right place.

11:32And there was a legendary man. And his name was Robert Strauss, Bob Strauss. You probably knew him. He ran the Democratic Party. He was later ambassador to Russia, USTR. He did so many different things. But I had been doing some work on fiscal economic issues on the Hill, budget priorities. And somehow I was introduced to him because a lot of the budget fiscal stuff had to do with cities, urban policy and revenue sharing, things like that. So I got to know him and I was introduced to him. and I got a big job at the Democratic headquarters, the DNC they call it. So it was the Carter White House?

12:08It was right before the Carter White House. It was before the Carter White House. I do remember when I was interviewed for this job, because it was quite a big job, they asked me how old I was and I remember wearing a black dress and glasses to the interview. So they said, how old are you? And I said, about 30. Now, if anybody I interviewed ever said about 30, I would roll. I was 24. I worked there, and I had a lot of visibility because I was working with a lot of the big city mayors at the time, and urban policy was one of the key issues for Carter. It was huge, wasn't it? Yeah. Housing and urban development.

12:43Yeah. Well, yeah. Well, I went there first, and then I went to the White House. For a legendary woman who was at the White House, her name was Ann Wexler. Wexler. And she controlled the White House, and she controlled so much in that city. Stu Eisenstadt always said to me once, if Ann had come 18 months earlier, Carter would have won the election. But she came maybe, I don't know, maybe 18 months in, and I came right after that.

13:17The River Cafe is excited. We're opening the River Cafe Cafe. Come for a morning brioche and cappuccino, a plate of seasonal antipasti on the terrace, or an ice cream or aperitivo in the sun. We can't wait to open and we cannot wait to welcome you.

13:43There's nothing like sinking into luxury. At washablesofas.com, you'll find the Anabay sofa, which combines ultimate comfort and design at an affordable price. And get this, it's the only sofa that's fully machine washable from top to bottom, starting at only$699. The stain-resistant performance fabric slipcovers and cloud-like framed duvet can go straight into your wash. Perfect for anyone with kids, pets, or anyone who loves an easy-to-clean, spotless sofa. With a modular design and changeable slipcovers, you can customize your sofa to fit any space and style. Whether you need a single chair, loveseat, or a luxuriously large sectional, Anabay has you covered.

14:25Visit washablesofas.com to upgrade your home. Right now, you can shop up to 60 % off store-wide with a 30-day money-back guarantee. Shop now at washablesofas.com. Add a little... to your life. Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply. Hey, it's Amanda from Soul Sessions with Amanda Rieger-Green. Discover Lancaster County, Pennsylvania, a perfect destination to unplug and enjoy the season. The rolling hills and quiet countryside offer a peaceful escape, while the vibrant city and rich culture provide so much to explore. Wander through the boutique shops in Lancaster, enjoy a glass of local wine or a cozy cup of coffee, and catch a live show at the American Music Theater.

15:15You can also dive into the authentic Amish culture by visiting markets and sampling the homemade treats. How delightful. Lancaster County offers the perfect balance of cozy and adventurous, ensuring a memorable escape. If you're planning a fall getaway, start at discoverlancaster.com forward slash soul sessions. Do you remember having left college and having set up on your own? Do you remember what you ate? Do you remember food at that time? Would you grab something? Were you suddenly having restaurants to go to in Washington? Washington didn't have the restaurants that they do now. But there was one quite famous restaurant that was right above DuPont Circle called Nora's.

16:08And we got to know Nora quite well. And the restaurant was right across from where Ralph lived because Ralph was at the White House also. So we went there all the time. When did you meet Ralph? I met him briefly before I went to the White House. But then we started working together. So Ralph and I worked together all the time. And the joke about that was that memos to the president were always due on Saturday morning. And we were the point people for the memos to the president on urban policy. I was the point for Ann, and he was point. And then there was the OMB person, Office of Management and Budget.

16:43But we could never agree. So we'd be editing late into Friday night. And the joke was we broke so many dates with other people. That's a huge chunk with each other. That we ended up together. Sounds like a scene from West Wing. Yeah, exactly, because we couldn't get a date because we had to break them because we were working until midnight. Was he as immersed in food then as he is now? He always loved food. He always, yeah. He always loved food, and he was always a good cook. Yeah. So did he cook for you? He cooked for me, yeah. I remember, well, we did go to dinner a lot because we went to this place Nora's across the street because we worked so late, both of us.

17:17But I do remember one time right in the beginning of our relationship, he had been in France for work for something with the White House, and he came back with all these French cheeses. Now, I don't think you're supposed to bring French cheese back into this country. And he was working at the White House, but somehow he cut them through. So I went to his house and did a tasting of French cheese. Did you eat in the canteen in the White House? Pretty much every day. It was a wonderful place. Actually, I went back to the White House just like six months ago or something and went there again. And one of the things I was disappointed is they took out, in the White House mess for years and years, they had a big round table, which was called the staff table.

17:54So you never had to make a reservation. You could just go in and sit at this big round table. And you'd be sitting next to Vice President Mondale. Yeah, it was wonderful. It was just a fantastic, fantastic experience. So I was very disappointed that they got rid of it. Last year when I was there, it's no longer there. Did you go upstairs to the residents and never have meals with the Carters? I went upstairs to the residence maybe then, but probably more when President Obama was president. And do you remember those meals? I think it was mainly cocktails. President Obama and President Biden care quite a bit about food.

18:31They have their own special treats that they like. So when President Biden comes to Winfield House, which he has four times, I think, since I've been here, we always have to make sure we get ice cream. His favorite thing in the world is ice cream. I think he likes chocolate chip, but I think last time we had vanilla. But he loves ice cream. President Obama came recently just for 24 hours, and he's very careful about food. Six almonds for breakfast, right? But when he's relaxing, his favorite thing, steak and a martini. Vodka. Straight up. You know he loves it, so you always want to make him happy.

19:08He works so hard when he's here. So I always get ice cream. Anything he wants. he gets. He deserves all of it. And President Obama, I've had dinner with him at Martha's Vineyard and stuff, so he always makes the martinis. Does he? A good martini. Vodka. Vodka martini. Vodka. If we're going in order, you went from Washington, and then you were in New York having your children. Were they all born in New York? My children were born in New York, yeah. They consider themselves total New Yorkers, actually, although both of them went to Dartmouth, which is up in New Hampshire. And Kate, when she came back, applied to business school.

19:42She applied to Columbia. And I remember as a mother always worries, I said, shouldn't you even be applying in more than one school? And she said, no, I'm never leaving New York again. If I don't get in, I don't get in. But did you find as a working mother that, did you have help for taking care of children and feeding? How did you tell? It's not easy. No, it wasn't easy. I mean, anybody who says, even some of my friends at the time would say it was easy, and I thought they were probably not telling the truth. It's not a bit easy. It's terrible. It's really hard. It's really, really hard. And I think the kids, not that they suffered, but there wasn't a lot of cooking in the house.

20:19Ralph and I would come back, we'd be exhausted and tired. And one time, a friend of ours was a journalist for, he'd been at the Washington Post and Time, and he was writing a book about young people with children and how difficult it was. And Kate was actually in the book. One of her lines was, when the doorbell rings, Kate would say, dinner, because we got takeout every night. I had one of my children once, when I started the River Cafe, and he went to the American school. Yeah. And he came, he called me up, and he was having a play date around the corner. And he said, Mom, can you just come over and pick me up?

20:54And I thought, look around the corner. He said, no, just come pick me up. And he wanted me to see what a good mother's fridge looked like. Oh, that's so funny. This is a good mother's fridge. And it was one of those double door fridges filled with fruit and vegetables and all the things. And I said, I am a good mother, and I have a good fridge. It just doesn't have 16 ,000 different types of strawberry jam. I was a very good mother. And you ordered out well. But I did not have a good fridge. Good mother's fridge. It all worked out very well. I love my children, and they're terrific. adults. Terrific.

21:32You've met them. Terrific people. They are terrific. Even though they may have gotten a little bit too much takeout. Did he cook? During the week it was so hard. We both worked and we were both exhausted. So we didn't really cook during the week. But he did cook Friday nights usually. We'd have dinner with the kids. And they got into this one thing. At one point I was like do we have to have it again? They loved steak and chicken fajitas. So we had steak and chicken fajitas every Friday night. He'd make them. Would he make them? He'd make them. He'd make them. Because now he's such a passionate cook, isn't he?

22:05Yeah. Did that happen later, do you think? Well, I think he always, it's just time, you know. And even now he mainly cooks on weekends. But he loves food and he has a great feel for it. Whereas I'm much more in, I'm sort of, I'm a perfectionist by nature, even cooking. And I think it makes me less good at cook. I have to follow a recipe to write the exact what it says. And Ralph just has a feel for it. He doesn't have to follow anything. What was it like going to Paris? We had a couple of favorite places in Paris. But one thing I remember that is more serious having to do with food, when I was in Paris, I was there during the worst of terrorism.

22:49So I got there right before Charlie Hebdo. It was ISIS terrorism during the time when I was there and ISIS terrorist attacks in Baddaklan was the huge attack at the music venue called Baddaklan. But there were like three different attacks. Huge numbers of people were killed. It was in November, right before Thanksgiving. I'll never forget that night because Charlie Hebdo had happened, which was a terrorist act and a terrible thing. But it appeared more targeted, where this just shook the city, shook the country, shook the world. because it was done for effect. It wasn't targeted. There were just young kids in a music venue, and huge, huge numbers of people died.

23:34I remember that night because Ralph happened to be there. Ralph was not in France much. He was there maybe six days a month, but this night he happened to be there. So we were out to dinner, and the security rushed over to my table and said, you have to leave now. And they've never done that before, especially because we were in the middle or just finishing the main course. So Ralph said, but I haven't had dessert. And that is Ralph. And my security said, she's leaving. We don't care what you do. And I got rushed back, and I did have safe rooms in my residence, so I got rushed to a safe room. And you were kept up all the time with what you had.

24:15Oh, yeah, and I had calls from the White House and the Situation Room. We had to brief the White House, and there was a wonderful woman. She was head of Homeland Security, Lisa Monaco. She's now Deputy Attorney General. But I laugh because I used to say she'd hate to see my name on her phone because she was head of Homeland Security for the president, so I'd always be calling her with bad news. Other than after 9-11, I've never seen anything like it. The streets of Paris were empty, empty, not a person, not a car. They had the Christmas decorations up, and Ralph got a picture of one of the main avenues totally empty with these Christmas decorations.

24:55I mean, the juxtaposition was just heartbreaking. You know, one of the things when you have this terrorism and terrorist attacks, you worry not just about the terrorist attack, but what they're going to do to the economy of the country and the economy of the city. And that's how they often win, because then everybody's afraid to come. So the mayor was about to go into Christmas season, very, very worried. They said, can you do anything? So no one was on the street. we decided there was a cafe around the corner from the embassy that Ralph and I would go very publicly and sit and eat lunch on the street so everybody could see us.

25:33And people took photos and whatever. And then when we got to the cafe, it was empty. And I remember by the time we left, few other people started coming. Because, you know, you have to fight terrorism in many ways, but you can't let them win economically either.