Benedict Cumberbatch remembers living with Wes Anderson whilst filming, imitates Ruthie, and discusses his upcoming film The Roses with Olivia Colman.

0:00This is an iHeart Podcast.

0:30They're kid-proof, pet-friendly, and built for everyday life. Plus, changeable fabric covers let you refresh your sofa whenever you want. Need flexibility? Our modular design lets you rearrange your sofa anytime to fit your space, whether it's a growing family room or a cozy apartment. Plus, they're earth-friendly and trusted by over 200 ,000 happy customers. It's time to upgrade to a stress-free, mess-proof sofa. Visit washablesofas.com today and save. That's washablesofas.com Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply You are listening to Ruthie's Table 4 in partnership with Montclair We have good news Ruthie's Table 4 is launching on YouTube Starting with today's episode with Benedict Cumberbatch you'll be able to watch the conversation in full and then throughout the summer we'll be posting some of our favorite interviews across the series To watch, go to youtube.com slash at symbol Ruthie's Table 4 pod.

1:33I can't wait to see you there.

1:39If life is about connections, I feel connected to Benedict Cumberbatch. Rick Rubin, Season 2, Table 4, seated us together at a dinner a few years ago, and I remember it as if it was yesterday, Benedict talking about the food he was cooking for his kids. This morning at breakfast, Carrie Fukunega, season two, recalled asking me to find a fishmonger to teach Benedict how to fill a sea bass for his role in the thriller Blood on Snow and how he passed with flying colors. J.J. Abrams, season three, texted me late last night saying, Ruthie, Benedict must not be of this earth. Describing him as a limitless talent somehow feels like an understatement.

2:22And Wes Anderson, season three, when I told him I was seeing Benedict, described him as one of the great actors of our time. He's like an Olivier or a Gielgud mixed with a De Niro or a Hoffman. Right, that's me. You're going out of here? Done now, yeah. Bye. There was somebody here. Who can I put on this podcast? Okay, Benedict and I are also connected by values. We're both politically and socially active. He thinks about the food he eats, the issues of sustainability, fairness, and civil liberties. He's here with me now in the River Cafe to talk about food and film, family and friends. Benedict is someone I respect, I admire, and I love.

3:02That's the real connection. Oh my goodness, Ruthie. So we start with reading the recipe and then we've got that over the edge. And you can read it any way you want. Okay, so I know I read it. You can change it. You can read it. You can read it. Okay. Oh, it's Ruthie. I heard that. I don't know if I can read it or anything. I'll try. I'll try to read it or anything. Okay. Do you want me to try? I find impressions. I also do impressions, but I feel really cruel. No, you can be cruel. It's okay. I'll just cry. I'll just cry. Okay. I'll take that introduction back and say, actually. What a shit. It's a shit.

3:33No, no, no. Okay. Okay. I'll try. I'll try. Split and roasted langoustines. Twelve langoustines. Two tablespoons of dried oregano. Three to four jay-jay. Sleepy. three to four dry chilies. It's a bit lower, my total wise, I think. Two lemons. Yeah, that's better. Extra virgin olive oil. It's getting quite Kathleen Turner. Now we're getting Kathleen Turner. Okay. Okay, seriously, sorry. Okay. Split and roasted langoustines, 12 langoustines, two tablespoons of dried oregano, three to four dried chilies, two lemons, extra virgin olive oil. Preheat the oven to 220 degrees C, gas 7. Cut each langoustine in half lengthways.

4:13Sprinkle the flesh side with oregano and crumpled chili and season. Drizzle with olive oil and squeeze over the juice of one lemon. Heat a large tray and place the langoustines on it. Cut side up, side by side. Roast in the preheated oven for four to five minutes. Serve hot with lemon. That sounds within my capabilities. You think you could do that? No, but you're a cook. I do cook, yeah. I love it. But I love the story of your place, Ruthie. I love that this grew up with the limitations of being somewhere for people to eat nearby. and then you got a Michelin star and blew it out of the water.

4:47It's just insane. We use the word organic because we're just looking, we've never done another restaurant, you know, and this one just has grown from being four seats. It's all organic, yeah. It's how you grow, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, how you, do you look at, you're doing films that way, the kind of films you... I mean, yeah, that's the nicest way to do it. You just kind of, a conversation grows around an artist or a particular story or an actor. Actors are artists, but you know what I mean. So, for example, Olivia Colman and I are friends. We have been friends for years. Season three.

5:20What episode? Episode four. Oh, she's good. She made that up. She's great. I believe she did. She might have been season two. But, you know, we've been friends for a while, and we said drunkenly every time we met, we should do something together. It never ever happened. And then some grown-ups had a good idea, And here we are, and The Roses comes out in August, which is fantastic. I cannot wait to see that. I think you'll love it. Because I'm probably the only person in this room that really remembers The War of the Roses. Oh, I do? No, it's side-by. I probably shouldn't have seen it, but it's Michael Douglas and Kathleen Turner.

5:52And Kathleen, and they... Your voice double. What? My voice double. Kathleen Turner, yeah. But tell me about it. I mean, so I'm playing an architect. I know. Olivia Colman, you've already had on the show, plays a chef. and it's about it's about their relationship based on the original book and then obviously the iconic film with Kathleen Turner Michael Douglas and Danny DeVito who directed it you know it's based on that paradigm of a couple who start with a furiously wonderful beautiful archetypal romance and they're impulsive and physical and they have a family and one person's career is kind of stagnated because of the family the other person's doing really well has a disaster the other one is goes on the up and up and that's her that's Olivia's character as a chef and she becomes this huge big deal a bit like you and i'm sure yeah anybody could be bigger than me yeah come on and i like richard mine has a nosedive and it's about then what it's really i don't want to give it away but just the joy of bringing this just the kind of raw ingredients to you yeah because of your life and he supports her as well that's the other beautiful thing about it he helps her with prize money that he's won to start her career he pulls her out of domesticity and said you should be doing this for people at large you can't keep treating us to iconic desserts every other day you should be doing this being celebrated how brilliant you are so it's a it's a really magnanimous loving gesture but it's about what happens when two people don't hold each other in in mind i guess they lose the conversation of the couple and these little things start to build these kind of antagonisms this kind of you know the dreaded word resentment and it poisons their relationship and food is such a central point of talking about poison because obviously it's her artistry it's how she succeeds in the world how she expresses herself how she evolves uh in the story and it's also her downfall it's also what takes her away from family what takes her away from her husband and it's in a way also what he uses to sabotage her without telling you what happens but and when is it coming out it's coming out late august yeah labor day weekend in the states and then just just just afterwards it's global so yeah exciting it was such fun and it's gone down very well it's good to work and have fun that's what we yeah that's what we really ultimately yeah or you know what it well i think sometimes the fun can be a bit perverse it can be the hard work can be the joy you know carrie fukunaga what i did with him was great fun and that's not for a while but we could talk about that because i know he's he's a friend of yours it was great i mean it was a three-day punch in punch out i was the sort of bad guy at the end of this tom harley couldn't do it so i stepped in to do it and i have no shame about that and that's again that's public knowing i just thought i want to work with carrie it's fun material shooting in london and aaron's in the scenes with me and eva green i mean what great talents to work with and it's a cracking character it's sort of very dark omnipotently powerful presence in the film and it's a bit like you know god turning up at the end in terms of storytelling so i just had a lot of fun with it a lot of fun with it and a big character he loved working i mean he really he wanted to be here today he said he would come oh really say hello but he's actually going he left i think his flight was at 10 30 to deli or something i've got i've worked with him again in He got an incredibly well.

9:17I love what he did. And he was just so brilliant with his crew, but with his actors. And also at the end of a long shoot to get this thing in three days. And he was remarkably relaxed considering. What was it like filleting the fish? Hard and stinky and great. It's hard. It's a really hard thing to do. I mean, I see them. By take three, the boys that helped me out were like, it's not half bad. They were impressed with your, you know, because it isn't easy to do. I mean, it's not easy. and especially when you're acting with your back to one of the greatest and also most dangerous and iconic French film actresses of a generation, Eva Green.

9:51Yeah. And I was like, I'm trying to hold a scene with her. I've got a camera up my nose there and I'm filleting this fish and I want it to look really good like I can just do it blindfolded. You know, I only had one afternoon trying to learn. No, no. And they're big. Salmon is so big. It's a big fish. Well, you have to come in here and fill some fish for us because you do a film. I've seen it with my friends and it's a family, isn't it? It's an intense, crazy family. Really intense. And then it's over. A friend of mine said that he kind of felt, sometimes at the end of movies, like his parents telling him that they were getting a divorce.

10:24I mean, maybe that's extreme. But he said, you just felt the family breaking up. Because if that's your job, there's quite a lot to go through. Exactly, you have to go through every time. But Wes particularly does, doesn't he? Wes is, yeah. Wes is very, there's a lot of repeat custom, both within the cast and the crew of Wes. He holds his team together. And so you feel like you're going back into a repertory with him. It's wonderful. I absolutely adored both experiences. Henry Sugar was very particular in the sense that it was lockdown. Well, there was a lot of COVID around, actually. It wasn't lockdown.

10:57But it was, what was it, early 2021, I think? Yeah. And it was at the same time as the Power of the Dog Oscar campaign. And I was to-ing and fro-ing from L.A. to do two weeks and then go back to L.A. and all of my family were in LA because we decided to make a few months out of it and they went to school out there and it was just great. We had a proper life for a bit there, which is incredible, incredible. And yet then this job came up and I was like, oh, my God, I'm now going to have to go back to England. So it was a bit weird, the Swiss cheese experience of me coming and going. But it was magic with Wes because he really held us.

11:34And there was an option. You could stay at the hotel down the road or you could stay with Wes in his home. And I went, no, I'm going to go hard on this one. I'm going to go the full Wes. To Snowfield. But it was magic. You know, Rafe was there and other actors were there every night again coming in and out. And, you know, to be held by him and his family and the people who work in his home and this extraordinary food culture that he adores, recipes from the New York Times all the time, your food being carted from London on a weekend, which is just like, wow, that's amazing. I think I'll stay here rather than go home.

12:09No, he really cares. And I think he is. Great. And it was like film school. You know, after we'd sit down and watch a movie. You have to watch a movie. And, you know, I was very honest. I thought, okay, this is the one time I had never seen, Lawrence of Arabia. I'm just going to say it in front of this cineast and extraordinary creator of cinema and iconic cinema. And he'd be like, oh, great. Well, we can watch it. And it's got an intermission. So that's good. So I watched the rest of the next day. and then we'd get up at a very leisurely sort of you know we'd have a call at about 10.30 or 9.30 it was unheard of with filming but then you'd go into the set these amazing Anna Stockhausen creations which was just like I mean like pop-up things with old-fashioned flats that would just fly up into the rigging and you'd go back so you'd start walking on the street and then you'd be in a casino atrium then you'd go through to the main body of the casino with like you know 100 extras moving about and doing all their things meticulously then sit down at a roulette table and talk you know whatever it was he was playing flat jackal you know and then look up at a camera thing that was there i mean unbelievably technical and you were you were spitting out sort of sometimes six seven eight pages in one take continuous take and doing it 45 times to get it right once for use in the film and incredibly focused hard work and really difficult and the amount of sort of can't use that one can't use that one because i forgot a thing or a line went askew i mean it was there was so much to get right and you were dancing with the crew all the time sanjay this operator bob who's his dop making everything's work but also all the prop and set guys who are moving things giving you things all the other actors it was like you know this this perfect balance of everything but it was the ultimate west experience and then we'd be done by four o 'clock and i'd go home and go oh in a bath and then you know up the stairs uh benedict it's almost negroni time are you partaking?

13:58I was like, yeah, sure. And then the cycle of good food and film would start. He loves that. We talk a lot about that idea of that, whether it's you or Tilda or Rafe or the people Owen, that getting the people back. I haven't seen the new movie because you're the Benicia. It's fun, yeah. And I was working with Benicia, which was just... Were you in Berlin? That was in Berlin, wasn't it? And that was another thing as well. Babelsberg Studios, the legendary Babelberg Studios, which I've never been to. Tell me about them. I don't know what they are. So they're huge. I mean, you know, they're sound stages from before the second world war i think they might have even been during the first you know marlene dietrich stage is one of the longest stages in the world where wes built two trains that meet in a huge underground railway scene and um you know it's it's it's just epic and the amount of great filmmakers all the kind of germans from you know fassbender and herzog and um at all and then you've got all the modern greats like wes like tantino and scorsese they've all come through there.

14:57Coming through there. So it's a wonderful, rich history. You feel that when you go to a film studio? Because when I've been to the film studio... It's kind of exciting. It's like Cineciddi. You go to Pinewood. Yeah. You feel that those early films... Yes and no Pinewood. And I don't mean to do my hometown. Well, because it's my hometown. Oh, I see. I think hometowns never carry quite as much romance as a foreign location, you know. What about Cinecid? An inbuilt slobbery by your own. Did you do one in Italy? Have you been to Italy? I have, but only for a fitting. But I filmed in Rome after that fitting.

15:25I touched the thing. And I kind of loved it. It was very ramshackle when I was there. I'm not sure what it's like now. This was a while ago. And there was sort of grass growing out of the pavement and stuff. And I thought, it's half abandoned, but still a hive of activity. This is it. This is it. It's amazing. It's going to be interesting what the future holds in this kind of digital time of volumes. Have you heard about volumes? No, tell me about volumes. Spaces like this that can just be anything. Anything. So you just do it in a space and it becomes Rome. it's all to do with how you create an environment that's utterly AI it's all virtual reality and so you enter a volume and you have minimal props of furnishing and then everything else is sort of it saves a huge amount of money I've never done it, I've done a mocap stage which is where your body your movements get turned into an avatar that gets turned into the character, in my case a dragon, but you know, it could be anything and that's extraordinary but it's like being a sort of tax return office.

16:23It's really bland. It's sort of carpeted and neon lighting and none of the glamour of a set or a location. But, you know, you're free like a child in his bedroom just to imagine it all, and that's a kind of gift in itself. But a volume, I think, is slightly different. I've never experienced it. I met Jeff Bridges and... Oh, gosh, who was the other actor who was coming out of one? And they looked utterly shell-shocked. I was a different generation, kind of going, what are we doing? I think that's the thing, generational. It's like you knew it was before, but there'll be a generation who'll just know that.

16:52You will know. I think it's a conversation we have a lot, which is, are you scared of AI? And how scared are we of AI? And why should we be scared? I'm scared because I don't think there's anyone in a room somewhere kind of, you know, overseeing the rules of this. Imagine a state bottled olive oil chosen and bottled for the River Cafe arriving at your door every month. Our subscription is available for 6 or 12 months with each oil chosen personally by our head chefs and varying with each delivery. It's a perfect way to bring some River Cafe flavor into your home or to show someone you really care for them with a gift.

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18:27Plus, they're earth-friendly and trusted by over 200 ,000 happy customers. It's time to upgrade to a stress-free, mess-proof sofa. Visit washablesofas.com today and save. That's washablesofas.com. Offers are subject to change, and certain restrictions may apply. Parking shouldn't slow you down. ParkWiz gives every driver a shortcut. Book ahead, save up to 50%, and skip the hassle of circling the block. Park smarter, park faster. ParkWiz. Download the ParkWiz app today and save every time you park. Tell me about growing up. Where were you born? I was born in London, in West London. and mum and dad had a flat in Kensington, which mum would think I had since the early 70s.

19:10It was like three grand and they're still there. What did they do? They are both actors. Are they? Yeah, they played my parents in Sherlock, which is quite sweet. That's not their only credit. It's kind of the most relevant one to me, I guess, in my career, but they are wonderful. So you grew up in a theatrical home. Were they there in the evenings? Were they in plays? Yes, by and large, but yes, when one of them was working, there was a lot of theatre when I was growing up. Mum did a lot of farces in the West End, lots of raccoon-y farces, until I told her I couldn't bear coming in on her husband and his male assistant pulling his trousers anymore.

19:45One more time. I'm 16 now, it's getting really mortifying. You've got to class up a bit. But having said that, I mean, if you could do farces, you can do anything. Farces, great. Donald Sindon and Michael Williams used to do it in productions with her. So they are very... I've heard Noises Off. Noises Off, which one that I've ever seen. Well, my dad was in the second cast of that. Was he? And that was the most proud of the kind of fast era I was because I remember practicing. He had this whole bit where they were throwing a plate and he had to either throw it or catch it. So we'd go into the park and instead of him kicking a football to me, I was kind of throwing frisbees at him.

20:19And he got it every time I saw him do it. But it was magic, that play. But how did that work for life at home? Difficult. I went to boarding school when I was eight. Your parents as well. Oh, you were in boarding school. Yeah, for a long part of my childhood. What was that like? Kind of wonderful when I was eight. I mean, you know, I remember those first anxious moments and watching the parents cry as they walked away. But I found a band of brothers. I was an only child. My sister from mum's first marriage was 18 years older, so she left home when I was, literally when I was born, practically, and was always a best friend and like a sort of elder aunt figure and someone I could always have on my side.

20:59But she wasn't there, so I didn't have a community at home at all. Um, and I found it at school. So it was a mixed thing, you know, the initial lurch of like, Oh God, this is weird. Where are they going? You know, but then I had a blast. I went there to last weekend. It was my old headmaster and headmistresses memorial. And it was in a theater that Judy Dench, who's a friend of mom and dad's had opened. And I did a little reading at the end and it was like walking through all these Proustian Madeleine Kate memory moments, just like wave after wave of ghosts and just trees that look the same that I did my first ever drawings of, you know, playing fields where I first tried to play tennis and cricket and rugby and all the rest and just, and the classrooms had changed a lot and the standard of artwork and stuff in the art department was off the scale.

21:49It's a beautiful, beautiful school called Bramble Tye in East Grinstead and it was idyllic and it was outside of London. It gave me my love of literature and food. Not food. No, I'm saying that because I'm here. So nice to have a good memory. Literature and, oh, amazing memories. So nice that you have memories of sports. But everything, sports, culture, music, drama. Not really, Ruthie. No, I said food because we're here and I can hear people prepping the background. But that would be really disingenuous. It wasn't, I didn't go away going, God damn it, food's great. I came away going, okay, it's just something to eat to keep you going.

22:21It just fed you. A bit, yeah. I mean, we had treats, but it was, you know, the roast, you know, Yorkshire pudding was something to look forward to, I guess. But you were in boarding school from? I was in boarding school from 8 till 18. Yeah. The whole gamut. It's nice that you have good memories. I have good memories of school. Do you? And it's kind of rare that people, I mean, maybe more, but I loved my school. And I was also, I went for the last few years. I was on a ranch in Colorado, so I didn't learn anything, but we had, it was very. You were at a ranch in Colorado? Oh, my God. Yeah, that's why I'm not very bright.

22:50Oh, come on, Ruthie. But you do rarely meet somebody who says that they loved their school. So that's, you know, good. That's true. But then when would you eat well then? Would you eat? Your mother would cook. So would you come home? And then badly at home as well. Like McDonald's was a big treat, I'm afraid. I hate to mention those words on this. Yeah, no, I'm empathetic to mothers who can't cook because they're working and have to eat out. No, it was just a treat. I mean, she really could cook, but it was like, should we have McDonald's? No, I don't mean can't cook, but they were working. Oh, I see.

23:15She was in the theater. She still managed to do it, especially at the weekend. And she would, I mean, God, I remember her doing an amazing Christmas meal and then pissing off for the Boxing Day matinee, you know, at my grandmother's. It was not even her kitchen with this old oil-fueled Argo, which was just very haphazard, like, you know, read for one hour, three and a half. And even then it could suddenly shoot up and burn at the last minute. I mean, it was a nightmare. So she constantly had her face in the oven. She had been when she was quite late. She was probably going through the perimenopause as well.

23:46So just like sweating away in this kitchen, serving people who were pretty lazy and inept domestically. I loved my grandmother and my dad. But dad would help, obviously. But yeah, it was quite an ordeal. And then she'd be the one working, you know, literally the next day. What about your father? Respect for that. Dad could do a mean grilled pork chop and two, you know, they mean two veg, you know, peas and potatoes, that kind of thing. And we had this little grill at home, which was also a rotisserie for chickens. I can't remember what it was called. A rotisserie probably. Did it turn around? No, it was a specific thing.

24:20It was like a turn wrap, but it could also be a grill. But it had a little rotisserie thing on the side. And a little small thing that would fold up. Mum and Dad gave me their old ones. One of my heartbreaks are moving into my new flat. And I left it outside whilst I was moving other stuff in it. It just went in a communal hallway. Someone took it. I was like, which of these 50-odd flats have taken my grill? You can't find it. You can't find it. Trying to sniff out lovely grilled food. But that's important, isn't it? It's a memory. It is a memory. So Dad coped. There were quite a few sort of frozen stir fries out of packets.

24:49You know, they're the baby boomer generation that kind of went, hey, we don't have to prepare or think about the ingredients. So it took me a while to go and kind of go, oh, farmer's market. Where does this come? What's the provenance of what I'm eating? Even though, you know, I was with people who could cook. I mean, especially mom. Home cooking was not done with a lavish budget. We didn't eat out a lot. You didn't? I was going to ask you about restaurants. No, I mean Garfunkel's, McDonald's, you know. I think that, you know, one of my slightly more well-to-do friends and his family, the first time I had had Chinese food.

25:24When was that? It's that golden bowl, it's that restaurant. I don't know if it's still there near South Kensington. And there was a lazy, is it Lazy Susan, the thing that turns in the middle? I didn't know what to do with myself. I was like, it's not just meat and two veg. It was amazing. And I just had, I fell in love with that idea of tastes of things, little pieces of things. It blew my mind. Did they entertain? Yes, very rarely. They were very, they are, they're still with us. What do they like? What do they do? Oh, well, Dad's very funny. You should do a podcast with them. You should. They're much more interesting.

25:54Yeah, I think so. Can we call them up? Yeah, definitely. Definitely, definitely. They sound great, though. Yeah, they are. They're larger. Well, Mum especially is larger than life. And Dad is, Dad's a creature of habit when it comes to food and drinking and all that sort of thing. Yeah, tea at a certain time with a biscuit. and then he'd start with either whiskey or a G &T and then a couple of glasses of wine at dinner. Kind of structures your day or your week or your month. I think that was his curse from boarding school as well. And then mum, for me, the kind of routine was the weekend cook.

26:26And I learned, first of all, actually with my godmother, and it was all sort of desserts. It was meringues that were gooey in the middle and brownies. And then I remember having a tiny little Star Wars, square Star Wars pencil, this tiny little notebook, which I very diligently wrote down the recipe for. Oh, do you still have it? Somewhere, yeah. Somewhere, find it. I must, I must, I must. We have a thing about notebooks here, because Tom Hollander, you know, his grandmother, he has his, I think his grandmother's, was his mother his grandmother's cookbook? And a lot of people, and so did, was it Kirsten Scott Thomas?

27:00And people come in with, and it's a very beautiful thing to be handed down, the memories and what you ate as a way of saying, I think, you know, this is who we are as a family. My mum's mum did a mean stew. I don't think I've ever got any recipes from her, though. I don't think I really, I really did learn with my godmother, and mainly with mum, actually, just helping her out in the kitchen. Interesting the way people see, you know, performance and food, isn't it? You know, people who want to eat when they're in theatre. I wonder what your mum did. She was in a matinee. I think theatre is a nightmare for food.