Bonus: Holiday Special

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1:49Well, hello, everyone. It's Christmas, and it's a time for giving. And so as a present to all of you, we're giving you a Christmas special. And the Christmas special is to have Sean Wynne-Owen and Joseph Trevelli, the executive chefs, as high as you can get in the River Cafe, here with me to talk about cooking and Christmas. And we also have questions, so we're going to just see how this rolls. I'm just going to ask you, what do you feel about the River Cafe at Christmas, Sean? I always think that Christmas at the River Cafe is when I can pull out the true hedonist in me as a chef, which I think is like.

2:29Which we never see any at the time of the year. But you can pull out all the stops. And I think you can go for like food that's so rich and so over the top. It can never be too much in the lead up to Christmas when everyone is just out for their sort of Christmas meal. you can use caviar you can use white truffles i mean i do like the idea of gold leaf but i've never said that to you i mean we haven't used gold leaf they haven't used but you can pull out all the stops you can cook with champagne you can make risottos with champagne you can cook veal with barolo you can cook game you can do anything you want there's no holes barred and it's just decadence all the way and I just love that yeah you take it in celebration people who come in today I've come in and it's five o 'clock and there are people still having lunch you know and they have all the time if I see one more espresso martini have you ever had one I've never had an espresso martini I could order you one now you can then we could try it we can all have a thing yeah what do you feel about cooking and Christmas I really like the fact that everyone's you know really up for it and i think that's what i like the most you know of course i like love all the food i love the fact that we're making palito misto and the cotikinas have just arrived from palma and i really relish it and do you remember like in the cafe i was thinking about the bagpipe the guy who brings oh my god yeah of course he'll be coming any day because we have because we buy our um he's scottish but he's very much actually the grabs come from the south coast but the man that delivers them is Scottish.

4:08So suddenly the restaurant will be packed with about 150 people all having a rowdy Christmas lunch. And suddenly from the back of the kitchen you hear the hum of the bagpiper. And it's like, is that him? And then he comes in. He's obviously had a few whiskeys on the way around London playing the bagpipes. And then he walks up through the River Cafe playing something like Mull of Kintyre on the bagpipes. And then everyone claps and cheers. And he gets another brandy or whiskey and he goes, this is really fun. Yeah, it's really good fun. Do you have a special recipe for someone listening away, a technique or a hint about roasting a turkey?

4:48Well, we're really lucky because of your Thanksgiving celebration. We have a kind of run through. We've already had a run through. So I can assure you that the whole kitchen is very keen on dry brining turkey at the moment, much more than soaking it in the wet. Can you describe what dry brining is? So dry brining just means sorting the turkey, you know, maybe like even three days in advance and then, you know, eventually roasting it however you want to do that. But the other very common, popular thing is to brine it in a wet brine, you know, made with water and salt. And I think the flesh gets rather wet.

5:25But the dry way, it's really succulent and it really works a treat. Do you have a roast turkey? I think what I do at home is, because I like to have lunch for maybe two or three, I put the turkey in at midnight before I go to bed. Wow. I do. That's a bit out there. And I have to say, it's quite nice to get up on Christmas morning and smell like your lunch already. I quite like that. And obviously stuff it at both ends and then put it on low, not too low. It's always a bit of a guesstimate low. And then crank the oven up to colour it at the end. Tons of butter. What about the stuffings? The nicest stuffing I ever had Char made, hands down.

6:07Once a year you made the stuffing with fennel and chestnuts and not sausage, I think it was pancetta and bread that had been soaked in milk. And it was like, it was really, I mean, stuffing, the word delicate and stuffing don't normally go together, but it was really nice. It was so good. It was also nice if you cook it inside the bird because then it has the juice in it, doesn't it, as well. And obviously, don't be afraid of butter because it's still December, so you can still eat rich until January and then worry about it. That's what I do. There's another question, which is if you were to, this is from somebody called Faye, and she's written, what is your favorite alternative to a traditional turkey?

6:53I mean, what about a nice lobster Thermidor? Well, that's what I, you know, that's what I have. I don't do Thermador, but we always have lobsters because traditionally our family always went away at Christmas, so we had the whole family over. And as I knew they were all going to have turkey the minute we went on to Mexico, we would have lobsters. Do you have enough? That's special. I would, well, one of my aunts in Parma, she used to always boil a capon. Yeah. She's like a really big, really, really big chicken. The stuffing inside? No, not that I remember. but no, and then you'd have, she'd use the broth, first of all, with the little pasta.

7:31Yeah. And then afterwards you'd eat this boiled bird, you know, with whatever, really. But that was quite nice, it was a bit different, but still, you know, a great big poultry thing. I've heard of that. But I think Richard's mum, again, back to her, had stuffed it and then boiled it. Oh, OK. The most unusual one I've had is in Portugal with the in-laws. Yes. Which is probably not one for your Christmas day listening, But it's a really famous Portuguese dish, which is chicken cooked in blood. Wow. Yeah. Any particular type of blood? It's a classic Portuguese dish. Chicken blood. Chicken blood, really?

8:08Yeah. Honestly. And I'm not kidding you. You go to the house, you'll have the chicken ready to go, like an avian bottle that the butcher will give you full of blood. Then they cook the chicken in it. I thought it was coco vin. I was like, well, this is exciting. It was that red wine. It was that red wine. And then it was, you get rid of the kind of richness of it, if you think livery flavours, with vinegar. Wow. It's a really proper celebration, but it's quite a punchy dish. It's full on. Not for the faint-hearted. Have you had it? Yeah, I've had it. Did you like it? Yeah, it tasted like, you know, if you eat chicken livers and all those rich, chickeny-flavoured things, it just tastes the same.

8:47This is kind of an obvious, I suppose, thing, but goose, you know. I remember one year having goose, and I didn't really know what to do with it, and I asked Rose, like, and you know how sometimes she was very specific. She was like, you cook it with tomatoes on the top in brandy. Very specific. And, oh, my God, it was so good. Was that Joyce Molyneux recipe? Oh, maybe that was, maybe it was her recipe. Yeah, it was real. I think, again, Rose really loved Joyce Molyneux. And she made good. The thing about goose is there's so little meat on it. Ross asks, every this will make you love Brussels sprouts recipe I've seen involves bacon.

9:24Should we just admit that sprouts are terrible and the only way to eat them is to disguise them with something better? I think that's doing sprouts a disservice. People cook funny things that they undercook. But I think if you cook it like how you would cook a green vegetable at the River Cafe, where you cook it long enough that it's sort of soft enough in seasoned water. I agree. And then you don't have to cut it with a knife. You could almost just cut it with a fork. And then it's perfect. And if you happen to be lucky enough to have any new season's extra virgin olive oil knocking around, it might work from our subscription service.

10:00From the River Cafe. From the River Cafe. It's a perfect little touch, but it's got the cabbage-y flavour. Yeah, I like sprouts. I've no problem. I think they're more the thing that, I mean, OK, it's fine with bacon or whatever, but I think garlic and olive oil. Yeah, that's the thing. You can't say garlic. That is a cabbage. Cabbage and garlic. You don't like it. God. something with flavour something with flavour Joseph why would you ever put flavour into Christmas and maybe chilli yeah delicious gracious that's almost the same as cutting them finely what raw yeah I'd rather I think raw I'd rather have a raw savoy cabbage than a raw Brussels sprout that's for sure what do you think about sprout Ruthie I like them actually you know I like everything about them and I like you I like them cooked a long time and then just slightly mashed I don't really like any vegetable with a knife and fork.

10:55Have you ever had a disaster at Christmas? Yeah, I have. What was yours? So one year I ordered all the, I was going to do an Arosto-Misto actually, so I ordered some pigeons and some rabbits and probably a ham, and I took them back to my flat and I was renting a flat at the time and the fridge was really small and it was freezing outside, so I just left them outside thinking that they'd be fine but the fox obviously got them oh no so we didn't have we just had to have the pasta not the arosto that year it was really stupid what time do you have Christmas lunch? kids open the presents first? do you know what?

11:34we don't have a routine we do it differently every year I wish that we did it on Christmas Eve my Italian family's always Christmas Eve and you went to mass then you went to midnight mass and you had the dinner first. Do you look back at Christmas as a kind of happy memories around in your family? Was that the day that was... Yes, my mum was obviously, she was such a great cook and she used to do, really cook like a Victorian Christmas. I'm convinced that I was like really lucky to have had that as part of my culinary tradition. So she would make mincemeat, she made a Christmas pudding, she made the Christmas cake and she would start gearing up for it in October, start making the mitts, we'd go in the cupboards.

12:22She'd phone us even when we were in university and say, do you want to stir the Christmas pudding? I'm doing it on the phone, you can have a wish. And would she start preparing like a month before? Not the vegetables and things, but the kind of preparation. And like to dress a house and put, you know, Holly over all the pictures. Do you think her mother did that with her? Probably, I think so. And so do you do it with your children? I like the idea of it. I wish I was the woman my mother was. But unfortunately, living in London in 2024, you somehow cut a few more corners than you might want to, don't you think?

12:57Yeah. Somehow. We have a question here from somebody called Dellen. What is your favourite Christmas dessert, and do you have any tips for making it? I think I can't answer that, because I'd be like Stilton. That's the perfect dessert for me. we get the amazing stilton from nil shard here and they are literally insanely good do you spoon it i love it i've got this massive um stilton dome in my house that my dad bought in the about the 70s and it fits a whole stilton under it a stilton dome just for stilton made out of bone china and it goes it's like a bell that goes over a whole stilton and when i was a child my dad used to take the lid off it and put my head inside it so i could get used to the smell at the stilton do you have one joseph your favorite christmas dessert and a tip for making it i mean i'm really predictable i like christmas pudding plum pudding i don't have any tip for making it i like making everything and i'm awful you know like trying to cook with the kids i'm like no move over kids i want to do it but actually this is one thing that i really like other people to make and my grandmother used to always make it my english grandmother um and actually christmas pudding is one of those you know obviously incredibly british things that italians love i've given it to italian people so often you know and they don't expect it you can see it relates to people that like pan forte and those kind of things that they might actually be quite partial to plum pudding what about you ruthie oh for me i would always want sabayoni i think i really like the idea of a sabayoni we make it in ice cream don't we my mother-in-law daughter always made that with the Christmas cake.

14:36The Dada's Christmas cake with Zabioni. I remember seeing you making that. I've seen you do a masterclass in that in the kitchen, showing a young chef how to make it with the wooden spoons rather than a whisk. Ruthie's made me a Dada cake a couple of times. She did, we did. Hit, hit, no, no. Every year with Dada, I think she started out as an Italian in London, making it traditionally, the English way, and then she just decided as she got older, less fruit, more chocolate. She put more chocolate and more nuts and more chocolate. She'd say, this year I've even done less of that candied fruit and more of the nuts, you know, the almonds and the chocolate.

15:17And the top of it being the marzipan. We have one last question, which is, we've talked about food and people and tradition, but we haven't talked about what we would drink at Christmas. Would you have drinks before you sit down? Would you have at the table wine? Would you have a glass of champagne before? All of that. Would you have a grappa? Would you just, yeah, what would be, is there something that, alcohol that you'd associate or a cocktail or a drink with Christmas? I'd have a good Chianti. I wouldn't have white wine at Christmas. No, but I quite like... Unless I was having the lobsters.

15:54But I like the idea of a glass of good, you know, falcinello. I quite like after Christmas lunch, I always have Christmas supper, you see. Because if you have lunch, you can get another meal in. And so often in the evening, I always order a side of smoked salmon. So about 10 o 'clock at night, I could sit down and just have some smoked salmon and a bottle of really beautiful cold Sancerre or something like that. And it's just, it kind of helps you digest the Christmas lunch. Have another meal. I love all those things. Yeah, I love to have a nice, particularly nice bottle of wine. that I'm saving just for that occasion.

16:30So then you're really looking forward to have it. But the other thing that I put aside like that is probably some Vinsanto. I really like Vinsanto. Okay. Is there a present you're wishing for this Christmas? I'm a bit of a square who founded the right job, so I look forward to my olive oil at Christmas. I'm going to get a present, you know, for sure, from my father of olive oil. And I just, you know, I really like that. Why would you get a present of olive oil? Explain. Because he makes olive oil and, you know, his big passion is to try and supply the family the year's olive oil. Where does he make his olive oil?

17:06He makes olive oil in Tuscany, in central Italy, where olives are really nice. So that's a special present. OK, so as I started out by saying, this is our River Cafe present to you for Happy Christmas. So from Sean, from Joseph and from me, Happy Christmas. Happy Christmas. Happy Christmas. Time for a sofa upgrade? Visit washablesofas.com and discover Anabay, where designer style meets budget-friendly prices, with sofas starting at$699. Anabay brings you the ultimate in furniture innovation with a modular design that allows you to rearrange your space effortlessly. Perfect for both small and large spaces, Anabay is the only machine washable sofa inside and out.

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