Bonus: Patrick Radden Keefe on eating together and eating alone

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0:42I think part of the reason I love cooking so much is that I, if I'm working on a book, it's years of pretty isolated work in which I'm not getting a huge amount of day-to-day affirmation. and I think there are times when you can, I mean, I'm a relatively confident writer, but of course for any of us, there are times when you sort of, you know, you don't know how much further it is up the mountain and you're just wondering, what am I doing here? Whereas you cook a meal, in my case, it's like you cook a meal for your family or your kids or a friend who comes over and there's this sort of tangible satisfaction in the space of half an hour.

1:21You can make something that's a beginning, middle, and end and it can hopefully give somebody pleasure. I always think about food is seduction as well. Food is many things, but it's also the number of people I've spoken to who actually thought about what they would cook for their first date or their second date. I have a friend who met this guy, and he really liked him, and they made a date to go out to dinner and to come up for a drink first. And he said he cooked all day in case the drink went well and they didn't want to go out for dinner. and I just thought that food is that way of also dreaming or connecting or planning.

2:01Well, I mean, we have that because we'll have a dinner party sometimes on a Saturday night and I do most of the cooking. You said that already. Yeah. What did you say? She said you said that already. No, say it again. I do all the cooking. We'll just call it. The next book is going to be called. Did I mention that I do all the cooking? The next book is going to be, I do all the cooking. Yeah. Oh, boy. Okay. We're here to discuss. Plus, this book called I Drawed a Cookie. Have I mentioned? Have I mentioned? Great martyr that I am. London Foley. I was going to say, to continue my story. It would be quite a good, when you said you'd cook a lot, maybe you should do a cookbook.

2:35Maybe that should be called I Drawed a Cookie. That should be the next thing, yeah. So what I was going to say is, I'll cook all day for the people coming that night, and I would almost be embarrassed to let them know how long I've been working on what we're doing. Because it can seem so effortful. Yeah, exactly. Let's say I'm coming to dinner. Okay, I'm coming on my next trip to London with some friends. And when do you start thinking about what you're going to cook for that dinner or what you want to do? Sometimes spontaneously. We can just go to the farmer's market that morning and get a nice piece of fish.

3:10And I'll often do some kind of pasta as well, a nice salad. But then occasionally you do things that just require more time. Do you think that sometimes if you cook more to get ready, then you don't have to cook so much while they're there? Yeah. That you can sit down and relax. Which is what I always want to do. Have people there. Yeah. So you can enjoy the... But we have a big kitchen now. So do you have a kitchen? And actually what's nice is that everybody comes... No, we eat in the dining room, but we have a kitchen and everybody comes in and they drink wine and we've got things laid out. And so I'll...

3:41Because I'm sort of buzzing around. Yeah. Do you mind cooking? Are there other people watching you or a certain... I don't mind at all. Yeah. No. It's a little... I'm always kind of a little sweaty and discombobulated, but I think it all adds to the manic energy of the evening. When did you two meet? Did you meet at Columbia then? Just after. After, yeah. So we came here. You did a lot of cooking, right? You cooked a lot. I had pretensions because, frankly, he would cook up a big meal just for himself, and I was like, I would never cook this fancy meal for myself. That's so nice. No, I know. I thought it was very strange.

4:21It was like, even if it was just him eating it, he'd still like prepare. I still do that. Yeah, that's so cool. Yeah, sure. Treat yourself, you know. Come on. Just to bring up, again, another guest is that David Beckham, his idea of a great night is to have the house to himself. Victoria's going out, the kids aren't there, and to cook an amazing meal for himself. And he will go, and he'll just think about it so carefully as if he was entertaining 70 people instead of one, and he'll choose the wine, he'll choose the dish, he'll choose the meat, he describes it in great detail, and then he'll sit down with the greatest pleasure and eat for himself and finish that.

5:01— To me, the kind of solitary experience, funny, because as much as food is a communal thing, this is another conversation we have. Justina's traveling for work, and she has a long day. She'll go back to the hotel, get room service, and conk out. I will find the best restaurant I can where they can take me at the bar, and I will sit by myself and get a glass of wine and have a meal. And she thinks that's crazy. I'm always so intrigued by the people who sit here. But, you know, as you see, it's very often. Some people read, and whatever they do is fine. But I'm always interested in the solitary diner.

5:35Oh, it's the best. Because I'm like you. I don't eat out alone. You don't do it. I don't think so. Even my husband died two years ago, and people keep saying, what's it like cooking for one and it took me a long time to confess that I don't think I've practically cooked a meal for myself yeah I just go out I come here yeah you know yeah just if I'm with my kids I suppose you have that in your life yeah this is a bit it's like being home so everybody is different you know in terms of but that's so cool I'm gonna try it yeah I just remember when I was in college it's funny a friend of mine turned me on to this but when I was college um we would i would occasionally go to the old union square cafe i mean yes it's still there but in the original location and sit by myself yeah it was the best burger in the city i'd sit by myself at the bar yeah a glass of red wine and a burger yeah okay and um do you do it every day what time do you do it first thing did you do it today not yet oh i'm a little because Because I'm out of my normal time zone.

6:36I'm in a four rut. Really? I cannot, yeah. See, the trouble is, I've done it since the very beginning, and every morning on Signal, I share. My two dearest friends, we always share our scores, and I'm the worst always. And it's a joke for them that I'm the professional writer. And we're having a little diversion here. Somebody told me that there are too many twos and threes that are cheating. I don't even know why you begin to cheat. These guys have so many twos and threes. Yeah, I think they cheat. Check it out. Can I tell them that you said they cheat? I am really worried. That's a very, very bad sign.

7:06I might have to call them right now. I'm sitting with Ruthie Rogers, and she said it is an improbable number of twos and threes. And of all the things you can cheat on, why do you want to cheat on Wordle? Yeah, why cheat on Wordle? Why cheat your friends on Wordle at that? I do it last. What's your start word? What? What's your start word? I often do train, and I sometimes do house. If you do train and house, you've got all the vowels, but you've also got the S and the R and the T. Have you ever tried audio? that's mine. Do you like that? Get a bunch of vowels out of the way. Yeah, I kind of like the consonants but also what I also do is I think if the word you know that I think we should find her.

7:45There's a woman called Tracy who sets them. Do you know that? The very beginning. I do it with my friend Noah Brumbach. Do you know him? And so we have this theory that Tracy lives in New York and she does this and sometimes she's in a really bad mood. Yeah. She makes them like words of death. Wait, so Tracy's a real person? She's not just a construct of your imagination? on Wordle where they say number or whatever, Wordle, welcome. It's set by Tracy. What are you doing? I just say, I'm really mad at Tracy today. I'm going to definitely not invite her. She doesn't get a table at the River Cafe.

8:16That's where you are. I feel as though there's a kind of, I guess given my sort of penchant for stories about criminality, I would go here, but I'm now wondering if there's some insider trading scheme. Tracy, if you're listening. Tracy, if you're listening.

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