Bruce Bozzi

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1:42Order now, Ruthie'sTable4.com slash book. Ruthie's Table 4 presented by Sky. When I came back to New York, I also came out in life and I started to work. Age. I was 27 at that point, though I had worked straight through the palm. And that was building a relationship with my dad that we didn't have from the early years. And then when I came out, I said to him, because it was such a heterosexual palm, steakhouse, male. Male, macho. And I said, is this going to be an issue for you? And he said, no. You are a good man. And that's good. And the restaurant, which I so resented as a boy, became the bridge that gave me my relationship with my dad.

2:40Like many of life's best ideas, the idea of having Bruce Bozzi as a guest on Ruthie's Table 4 began in a kitchen. A few months ago, Bruce, his husband Brian, and I were together in their home in L.A. Knowing Bruce loves to cook, we had decided to make a tomato and basil pasta together for a good group of friends. Picking the basil, peeling the garlic, draining the tomatoes, Bruce and I talked about growing up in New York, living in L.A., and discovering how much we share in our lives and the world of food. Bruce grew up in an Italian-American home, and for many generations, his family had the Palm Restaurant, an American legend.

3:20Today, Bruce and I are together again to continue our conversation. And when it's over, we'll end up where we began, another kitchen, this time at the River Cafe. Two good friends cooking, talking, and basking in the love and happiness of being together. Oh, thank you. So do you remember that night? Oh my God. What did we love about that night? That night goes down as one of the top three nights we've ever had in that house. Yeah, no, seriously. The connection, besides the food, that was... It was just the tomato pasta. I know, but the simple... Actually, I agree. The simpler... The simpler, the better.

3:58Yeah. And the connection over the... As we were cooking and our guests, it really was a phenomenal... Yeah. When you said you were going to come to the house and we were going to cook, I was nervous. I was like, okay, Ruthie's coming to cook. What do we need to do? And you made it so incredibly easy and fun. And the vibe of the house was great. And Bono wandered in on the way to the airport. My brother came. Your brother came. It was really, it was Austin came. Austin came. We had the best. And the other thing that Ruth, you do, which is something I really believe in in the business that we are in, you brought everyone together.

4:43Well, it's what you do, what we do, and what we love. But it was really a special evening. It was super special. And I think tomato pasta, you actually chose a recipe which has tomatoes and the sauce and the pasta. Do you know the story of this pasta? Rose, my late partner in the River Cafe, had these two great friends called Adam and Chloe. And when we were doing the very first cookbook, we decided to put their recipes in for pasta with sausage and tomato. When they disagreed, but one of them did it very slow. Oh, so that's why there was two. So we said, okay, you're good friends. We'll put both your recipes in side by side.

5:25So one is tomato pasta a la Chloe, and the other one was Adam. And so you choose the Adam one. I did. You chose the Adam. That's right. You just made it. So tonight we are going to have penne with Adam's slow-cooked sausage sauce. Serve six. It's eight fresh Italian spiced pork sausages crumbled. I mean, come on. That's so delicious. Two small red onions peeled and chopped. Two garlic cloves peeled and chopped. Two small dried chilies crumbled. 250 milliliters of Chianti. Yeah, milliliters. This was written for the British edition. Right. We could have given him the American one. Okay. We have an international audience.

6:10So anybody who's listening, we can do the math for you. Do the math. Okay. So one kilogram jar of peeled plum tomatoes, 120 grams of Parmesan freshly grated, 150 milliliters double cream, 250 grams of penne regate. Regate. Regate. Mamma mia. Fry the sausage meat, stirring and breaking up to pieces. After the juices from the meat have evaporated, add the onions, garlic, and chilies. Cook gently for about 30 minutes. I mean, can you imagine the smell of that? Add the wine. Cook until the wine evaporates. Add the tomatoes. Lower the heat and simmer gently or until you have a thick sauce. Season. Stir in the parmesan and cream.

6:55Cook the pané until al dente. Add the panne to the sauce, toss well, and serve with love. Simple as that, with love. Yes, with love. It's delicious. It's very Italian. Yeah. And I think that it's interesting that you chose such an Italian recipe. Well, I think, you know, growing up when my mother would cook, you know, she had her lasagna recipe, and part of that was all sausage and stirring and, you know, sauteing the onions and the garlic and then adding that. And then when you were cooking the sausages, using the sort of juice from that to add in. So the whole ritual of kind of combining the ingredients are so magical to me.

7:40Let's start at the beginning because your parents were born in America and your grandparents? No, my great-grandfather, Pio Bazzi, and his partner, they were born in Italy. My family comes from Parma. Parma. And his partner, John Gansey. So it's the Ganseys and the Bazzi's, these two families that came together. And they really just opened a small one-room restaurant at 837 2nd Avenue in New York between 44th and 45th. They went to apply for a business license to call it Parma from the place they were from. But the people at the business bureau couldn't understand their accent. so they stamped it palm and they were so frightened to say anything different for fear of like not getting it the palm was the palm not i was going to ask you about my sort of thoughts about talking today i was going to ask why was this restaurant called the palm because when you think of palm trees in the united states you think of florida or california not and this was on second avenue it's such a great name for a restaurant i mean parma would have been great so tell me more about the beginning so the beginnings i think are you know and setting up any sort of foundation and we're talking about anything that's set in truth and authenticity the small restaurant that had wood um sawdust on the floor so it was not fancy it was really you know it was like a beat up joint kind of restaurant that very much in the early 30s you know the big crash of 1929 the neighborhood had a lot of syndicates, had a lot of newspaper people, but it was really local people living there.

9:27Cartoonists used to come in and they couldn't pay for their meals because their stock market had crashed. So my great grandfather said, okay, well start drawing on the walls. And that's how the rivets of the murals, and that's how they pay for their meals. And that became a palm rivet. And then the other thing was, people started asking for steak and there was a butcher literally across the street and the waiter would just go get the steak when they wanted a steak so it became then known as a steakhouse an italian steakhouse and then steak and as it grew but really for all those years uh from the first and second generation it was that one location on second avenue and And very much like the River Cafe, it expanded next door, took the space next door, and then it took the space upstairs as business dictated.

10:24And then in the early 70s, my father and his partner, Wally, said their fathers had been sick. They sort of took over. and they at the time George Bush senior who was an ambassador was moving to DC and said you know there's not a lot of places to eat in DC have you guys ever thought of opening the Palm there because the Palm was three or four blocks from the United Nations in Manhattan and uh they said no but yes and that began the kind of the first white tablecloth restaurant expansion in America so we went to DC and it was so jam-packed and you know we're both friends with Diane von Furstenberg who she always talked about the 70s and it was like you know 70s in New York was pretty spectacular it was just like you know and it was like a line you couldn't get in and there was a little Italian joint across the street and my dad used to say he'd look out the window and these guys would just be like staring at the palm which was so busy and then they decided to take over that small space and then from there went to los angeles which yeah i think these uh dc los angeles uh new york that trifecta yeah became politics yeah hollywood and new york it really kind of grew this small immigrant italian restaurant that was already was it still seen as an italian restaurant because you see i never it was more of it than as a A steakhouse.

11:57Yeah. Yeah. And lobster. I remember the lobsters. The lobsters. So in the 60s, they introduced the lobsters. Because I was married to an Italian who loved Italian food and loved food. Whatever city we went to, whether it was Beijing or Marrakesh or Paris or Rome, you want to eat the food of the country. So when we'd go to New York and we'd be taken out to – or often take you to this wonderful Italian restaurant. wonderful French restaurant. Let's go to Chinatown. Actually what Bishop did always say was let's go to an American restaurant. And for us that was calm. You know and it's amazing. And we and we just love that generosity that and I think I never ate anything there probably except for a lobster or steak.

12:45Yeah and everything was big. The portions were big. Everything was big. It became known to have these lobsters which no one was serving at this were three four five six pound lobsters which are huge and steaks were 18 ounces like you know you know everything could feed yeah you know everyone at the table like you know but and that became sort of a thing but how did it that connect to your house back to the domestic life what you were born into this family your father was at the restaurant my father was at the restaurant all day yeah I never really saw my dad growing up I mean so what What would happen is in the morning he'd be asleep when we would go to school.

13:26And then he'd be at the restaurant for lunch. We'd come home from school. And who was we? You have brothers and sisters. My sister. I have an older sister. The two of you. Right, the two of us. And Andrea. And she. And this was in New York City. So you lived right in Manhattan. Yeah, we lived in Queens, Jackson Heights, Queens until 1975 and then moved into Manhattan. Yeah. And because it was closer to, you know, it's just across the bridge. Yeah. And then at night, we were with our mom. And then, so I really... Did she have any involvement? Not really. It was a very pretty much... It was historically, the boys got the restaurant.

14:06And it was not the easiest of times in regard to... And my parents met in high school. They're still together today. But there was a big rough patch of like, you know, restaurant guys. a restaurant person not easy it takes a lot the restaurant becomes your home as well when you're working there my mother always says the restaurant would close at 12 but you'd be home at 3.30 in the morning it's hard to leave but she cooked she cooked for you she would cook for us so you'd go to school come home I didn't have the biggest palate So, you know, a chicken Milanese or a roast. A roast chicken was one of my favorite things that she could cook.

14:55You know, slow roast chicken, you know, salad. And God forbid we didn't eat it because we ate junk, you know, after school. Sometimes you'd go and you'd hit the grocery store. She's a great woman. She's a tough New York Italian, fiercely loyal to friends and family woman. She sounds great. But did you connect? Did you have a grandmother? So your grandmother? I had two grandmothers. Really, both grandfathers I met very briefly in life. Our journeys passed over quickly. One passed in 74, one passed in 71. So I was a little boy. My grandmothers, I was very close to my mother's mother, specifically Sadie.

15:37And she died in 1983 on March 13th. And we were very close. And my father's mother, who is now part of the Palm experience, Louise, we were very close as well. And, you know, they were very different. My father's mother was loving. She had, but she was out there. Like, she kind of traveled and lived life. She was sort of like a Sophia Loren type, like red hair, you know, curvaceous, smoking cigarettes. So my grandmother was more of a traditional, if you think of Martin Scorsese's mom, twins. Really? You would think they were twins. Like I recently saw that documentary and I sent to my mom and dad.

16:21I was like, is this not Sadie? This is crazy. But so it was a different, I would sit with her and squish into the same chair as her. And just, she was kind of heavyset and just, her arms were like dough. If you, and I say that respectfully. you know they had a lot of skin so i would sit and kind of knead her arms as we were watching tv and one day we were watching tv and there was a there was a television commercial if you recall there was a um a perfume called chloe and it was early 80s and it's beautiful blonde woman now and like well there's 70 something and my grandmother said to me you know i wish i was beautiful like that and i looked at her and i said you are beautiful like that like that was so women as much as men were in my life the women in my life shaped me and really informed me and raised me like the community of women so I I'm very connected to women on all levels in my life which is funny because I'm also gay and married to Brian but you know that's we all connect I think we connect with who we do

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18:39I understand. I used to say, when I used to walk into the house, and Richard and I would go to visit her, there was what I used to call the gaze. You know, it sort of stopped. I was sort of put on the side. It would start at the top and just sort of go down and end with, you know, you look a bit thin as Ruthie giving you enough to eat. Or, you know, she was always, that was her. And that's why we loved going home. Right. That's why you kind of went home. that's so funny he had his first granddaughter aged you know okay I guess this is she must have been under 90 and when we said that Richard's son had had a baby girl this is my step children she had a girl she said oh at last now we should we'll have someone to look after him it was like that's what it was but you know what you know what as a no I say the prisons are not full of people who've been loved too much.

19:34Yeah, that is so true. So that love, you know, sort of carried on. It's very interesting. It was really, really nice. Yes, there were many sort of... So your father, though, we're talking about your dad. So my dad... He was at work. My dad was, he was working. I think the connection was, when I got older, in my teens, I started to work in the summers for my... For the Palm. I started to do... Not only was it in my blood, you could see that this is not for everybody. and it began a relationship for he and I. And then... Well, go back to that. I mean, you realize that this was not what you wanted to do in life.

20:13I didn't know what I wanted to do. Yeah, but you... But I knew during the summers I was going to work at the Palm because of a summer job. As what? I worked out in East Hampton. I worked in the kitchen as an expediter. I was at the front seating people, answering phones, taking... It was all old school at the time. You know what I mean? There was no POS systems and things like that. And it was really, but what I knew, what I did well was I connected with not only the guests, but the people I worked with. And there was no entitlement. There was nothing. I was in it, in it from the beginning to the end.

20:49And I think over time, because then I, after when I became a young adult man looking for a career, I had my Hollywood years. I call them my Norma Jean years where I went to Hollywood. I worked at night at the West Hollywood Palm, bringing checks with the maitre d' of all times, Gigi Del Maestro, who was a waiter at the Palm II. And as they expanded the Palm, they always banded from within. If you were working, it's the best way culturally to keep the integrity. So Gigi became like a second dad to me. So at night I'd be like answering phones during the day. I was trying to be an actor. I worked on a production.

21:28I did all that kind of stuff. It's where I met a lot of people that we know together. And then when I came back to New York, I also came out in life. And I started to work. Age. I was 27 at that point. Though I had worked straight through the Palm. And that was building a relationship with my dad that we didn't have from the early years. And then when I came out, I said to him, because it was such a heterosexual Palm steakhouse. kind of macho, male. Kind of macho, right? Probably no waitresses were there. Much later in life. Yeah, a lot of men serving. It was the integration of, and then female managers and the whole thing.

22:07And I said, is this going to be an issue for you? And he said, no. You are a good man. And that, the restaurant, which I so resented as a boy, became the bridge that gave me my relationship with my dad. Did you study in California? I did. I wanted to go to California. I grew up watching television and seeing these shows in California, like Three's Company, Charlie's Angels, all these. I thought California was just freedom. So when it was time to go, and I had just an energy. I was kind of laid back. Gorgeous, as you are now. I don't know about that. Yes, you are. I said, I want to go to L.A. for school.

22:57And I can remember two things happened in 1984. My dad said in the, which was very meaningful, he said, you know, you don't have to go that far. We're not just going to pop up. And I said, that's not why I'm going. I'm going because I have this love of California. My mother said, your dad's going to take you. and I looked at her because their wedding anniversary was something was happening she couldn't come and I was like are you crazy we were in the kitchen he was I was like what what and we landed the radio was on and said you know it's 97 degrees in Southern California and I thought I looked at the window and I was like yes but he took me and for three days he did everything that dad you want get you set up in you know get your bedding set you up for food and it was those three days that completely shape-shifted our relationship too and he left and he wrote a note that said you can there's always a ticket when you want to come home i love you and i'd never seen or heard him say that and i kept it for a million years and then i gave it back to him as a gift that's beautiful story that's a great story it's all it's to me it's all about family and it's all about but did you create yourself a bit of family and even in that situation in LA did you yeah did you have your own apartment did you live in campus did you have too many questions eat out cook at home no in the in the in the school years I did I did do what you're saying but in the school years it was pretty traditional I create I had a family of the you know kids I was around and we did all LA stuff the what I did wasn't I graduated in 88 and 89 I moved back to New York and I became an NBC page and I love that job like in 30 Rock and 30 Rock was his name Kenneth yes I was not I was not as queenie as him okay I was not as queenie but I I was I I came to mind because I saw Tina Fey the other day.

25:06We were just talking about Kenneth. Yeah, so sorry. All due respect, that was not. You did a great job. Kenneth was a really good worker. I mean, I would aspire to be as efficient as Kenneth. Oh, yes. No, no. Well, I was giving tours. I would give four tours. I loved. I actually stole my uniform from you were supposed to return it. So I have, like, given the button. And that year, SNL was celebrating its 15th year anniversary. So, Saturdays were get to work, give four tours, hang out, work, do the show. And I, myself and this girl, Stephanie, we had hair that was bigger than you can imagine. It was 1989.

25:44Big hair was in. I had to get some of these pictures for a… I'm like, it was crazy. And I would work the door, studio at 8H. Again, you could get up and I would have the list and that was like the VIP and I'd be like, sorry, you're not coming in. your name like people like they know are so cute so but i also had um the today show assignment and to me and i talk about that because i learned a lesson there that i thought i would that i think were taught in our business so that summer no one wanted this assignment it started at five in the morning the today show went live at 7 a.m jane paulie and brian gumbel were the host yeah it was the last year they were doing that it was sort of like the the trauma summer when they were kind kind of looking to get Jane out.

26:30Robert Palmer was reading, Robert, John Palmer was reading the news and they wanted him out, Debra Norfolk. It was quite, but every morning I went to work and I said, good morning, Miss Pauly. Good morning, Mr. Gumbel. I never called them Jane and Brian. And my job was to make sure, Ruthie, you got to the green room in time, that the bagels were set up, that I got you to make up in time, that I got your thing. We had people like Betty Davis. Yeah. So Betty Davis came one morning and she was all like smoking her six. I had to get her ashtray, and Catherine was her assistant at the time. It was Betty Davis, and she's in one of the private dressing rooms, and Catherine, I'm like, you know, Betty Davis, she's iconic.

27:09I love her, and Catherine goes, you should go in and tell her, and I walk into this room. I knock, and she is leaned back on a chair, and she has a dress on. She has one leg down and one leg up on the wall, so her legs are quite spread. Couldn't see anything, but I was like, okay, oh my God. And that was the morning, and she was on Letterman that afternoon. So Catherine said, do you think you could help us? So I did. And she goes, can you, Betty Davis says, can you walk me to my car? Because I'm being honored at Lincoln Center. She slips her hand through my arm. We get into this crowded elevator, and she's talking.

27:46And I put her in. And at one point, I'm standing between her and Audrey Hepburn, who's on Live at 5. What? And me. What? It was like those two talking and my face. And I'm like, I don't know how. That must have been their best day to have you in the middle, though. I bet they look. That's the throuple, yeah. I think they, you say it was, yeah. It was the lesson. So Jane Pauley says to me, it's the end of August. It's been, I go every morning at 9.30, I go back to the Paige office and I am filled with energy and stories. So now the assignment comes back up because there were three-month assignments.

28:24everybody wants this assignment. It went from no one wanting it to everyone wanting it. And the last day, it's like 6.50, Jane's going through her notes for the beginning top of the show, she's putting on her lipstick, never forget, and she says, Bruce, I hear today is your last day on the assignment and I said, yes. And she goes, if you'd like, I would be happy to write you a letter of recommendation. And I said, oh, but all I did was make sure people got to make up and air, and And she goes, it's not what you did, it's how you did it. And that stuck with me. Of course it did. And I think it's when you're raised in hospitality, in service to people, you just do.

29:06I really think that working in a restaurant teaches you so much. Because of that experience of you have to be kind to people you might not want to be kind to. You have to read whether a table wants you to hover, or they want you to go away. You have to find out if they're having a hard time, how you can make. People come to me and say, oh, there's a difficult table in table four. I go, great, let me go find them. Because one of the challenges is there's no such thing as a difficult table. There are people who might have gotten lost getting here. I would say every table has a story. Their mother might be sick.

29:40They might have been fired that day. They might be celebrating. And I think what you're talking about from your experience at NBC or whether it was at the Palm or your mother or your grandma, It's all to do with actually bottom line liking people. Yeah. My dad always would say, he'd be like, you know, why are you working in the restaurant business if you don't like people? And when you come across that, yeah, he'd say like, you know, go be a librarian. Sit in a library and be quiet and just like make sure someone has their book. And I don't mean anything disrespectful about, I'm sure there are many nice librarians.

30:16I'm just saying it's a job that you don't have to have. but I believe that you have to really be interested in people and to your point one of the you know there's nothing like a restaurant like here the River Cafe when it's on full throttle and you feel the energy of that room and there's a million details like you said you're looking and you're if someone's not eating their food you're looking and you're going to that table to understand is something wrong is something you don't like because you want to make them happy yeah yeah i often would say to the people i work with who were equally as important to me the working where in the embassy or in the palm so anyone like there would though there's a differential if you disrespected somebody that worked in at the palm and you were a guest that was unacceptable to me um but they were you know they could have bad days too but i always would say to them you can't bring that yeah into the house this is this this is the lady that we take care of because she provides and she the work here allows you to send your children to school and work here lets people celebrate life so if you're going to bring that in here you got to go and people do so but i remember the first time i learned how to fire somebody which was very difficult that's really hard yeah what did you do i'm not that kind of guy and i was working with a great general manager named tin king we opened up the palm west in new york city which was a big deal for me it was july 1999 250 seat restaurant 25 years super hot yeah where was it 50th between broadway and eighth avenue okay and you know that that was not even fully developed that piece of manhattan and um massive heat wave so tim king he comes in and he said uh there was a guy just just we gave a lot of chances to and he was not living to what the ethics, the values that we, and delivering the service.

32:19So he goes, okay, Bruce, we're gonna go meet with him, and you're gonna fire him. And I'm like, no, no, I can't do that. He goes, no, you're gonna fire him. And the way is because you're not firing him, he fired himself. And the minute he flipped it, I was like, oh, you're right. I didn't do this. We gave him a number of conversations, and we wanted him to be successful. He couldn't be. So in delivering that message as disappointing and upsetting as it is, when I think you get fired, for the most part, in my experience, you've done it to yourself. So that made it easier. I've only had to actually fire somebody once in 38 years.

33:00We had a chef who was really good. He was the one I always wanted to work with. He was just great. But one night, he kind of flipped. and he did things that were really unacceptable in a restaurant. And so I had to call him in the next day and I said, you know, I'll call him Chris, right? Because, you know, we need to talk about this, you know. What happened? What happened last night? And he said, yeah, I don't know. We talked about it. And then I said, you know, Chris, what would you do if you were me? And he said, I'd fire me. And I went, okay, you're fired. If he had said, I'd give you another chance, I would have said, I'll give you another chance.

33:43But he said, I'm fired. Pay me more. It was just so, you know, but it is, it's a hard, it's really hard.