Dara Khosrowshahi, CEO of Uber

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0:58and a voice line. Plus taxes and fees. Same day delivery for most internet eligible customers. See if it's an option during checkout. Ruthie's Table 4 is now on YouTube where you can watch past episodes of the podcast in full. Go to YouTube and search for Ruthie's Table 4 and I'll see you there. Ruthie's Table 4 presented by Sky. I believe one of the Shah's cousins lived across the street from us. Okay. And at some point, there were these revolutionary guards who wanted to come across our house and get to the other house. And bullets went through our house and shattered the living room window.

1:38And at that point, we didn't want to leave, but at that point my mom said, let's go. For me, it's something I don't take for granted. This is what America, what the UK, offer to immigrants to hopefully become a part of that society and to contribute that to society, it's magical. And it's fragile, and that's why. It really is.

2:09Sometimes, dreams come true. Over two years ago, I reached out to Dara Khosrowshahi. Dara is known as one of the world's most influential CEOs. Everyone wants to talk to him about rebuilding the culture of a company, and so do I. Dara and I have much in common. We share friends. We both have personal experiences of immigration, him from Iran, and my grandparents from Russia. We are also both professionally involved in food. Dara through Uber Eats, and me through the River Cafe. My average amount of customers is 10 ,000 a month, and Dara's is 95 million. But here we are today, a lot in common in the River Cafe in early spring to talk about food and people, food and work, food and family, and food and our histories.

2:59Lucky me. You'd be happy to know, we looked this up, I asked the team that there are 100 Uber rides a day to the River Cafe. Yes. That makes me very happy. It's a very popular destination. It's a little hard to get to, which makes it good for Uber. So it's perfect. Why? Because you mean they can get like a long day? The neighborhood can be difficult to get to. We once had somebody who gave, somebody once gave it said, the early days, she said, could you get me a taxi back? And we said, yes, where are you going? And she said, London. So, you know, it is sometimes quite far. Should we talk about Uber Eats?

3:38Absolutely. Let's talk about Uber. Why did you go to Uber? You were having a great time at Expedia. I was. You were having a life. You were living. Come on, tell me why Uber. You know, so Uber called me up originally. And during the time. Apparently Uber is a verb, is it? Yes, very much so. So Uber can make a phone call? Or is that Uber as an app? He Ubered you. A headhunter for Uber called me. And at first, you're absolutely right. I said, no way. It was going through a real cultural crisis. It was a mess. It was in the public eye in a bad way. many, many times. And it was actually at the Sun Valley Conference where I was having a drink with a good friend of mine, Daniel Eck, who runs Spotify.

4:22I know Daniel Eck. Yeah. And I was having a drink with Daniel Eck and said my wife. And he said, hey, did Uber call you? I told them to give you a call. And I said, yes, they did. But Daniel, why in the world would I give up what I've got on Expedia to go work at Uber? I'm so happy at Expedia. Everything's going great. And he said, Dara, since when is life about happiness? It's about impact. You can make a difference at Uber. Uber's an important company. It needs help. And I think you'd be the perfect person. And whether it was a combination of his charisma or the drinks or my wife too, Sid's like, yeah, come on.

5:02You've been doing Expedia for a while. Maybe it's time for a new challenge. The next day, I called back the headhunter. I said, you know what, let me listen. And after that, I had dinner with one of the Uber board members. And it appealed to me. And you listened. I did. And I still remember, actually, to your point on Uber is a verb, I spoke to my dad, Zoller, and I still remember he says, Daughter, when a company who's a verb tells you to be CEO, you just say yes. and and it was and what what i found after the fact but it was certainly what attracted me to uber is that the people who go to uber because it's not an easy company it's not a technology company that only works in the digital world it works in the real world you know what it's like here you know it's like you have all the plans in the real world to to for perfection but then always something crazy happens so it's just the the i knew it was going to be a challenge but people who come to uber are attracted by the impact that we have in the world you know we're a digital company but we're helping people get around and we you know during covid we helped so many restaurants stay live so it was ultimately that impact on the company that really really attracted me and in hindsight I'm so happy I came to the company what year did you start at Uber I think 2017 I joined so it was probably four years then COVID hit and and it was it was just such a shock and what was that like for you for us it was Uber at the time was going through its challenges anyway we were losing a bunch of money uh we had gone public and the IPO had not gone well at the time and we the 80 of the business was mobility uber eats was was kind of an idea yeah that that we're developing you were developing before covid yeah it had actually started before i got there and i was like look this is a cool business let's keep investing in it let's grow it and then when covid happened 80 of our mobility business disappeared overnight 80 % 80 % just gone and we were already losing money so we went from losing kind of 2 billion a year to losing 4 to 5 billion a year we didn't have that much money in the bank and so it became kind of a question of survival for us and lo and behold the mobility business almost disappeared but the delivery business really started picking up and so I was going to ask you, where were you?

7:47I was in San Francisco. Did you leave your house or did you do everything from home? It was, I worked from home then. Basically everyone stayed at home. It was, you know, conversations were over screens. And you really didn't know what was safe, what was unsafe, where the world was going to go. I got to spend a lot of time with the kids, which is nice. So go back. So then Uber Eats became, as you say, became a food. Yeah. I mean, Uber Eats became our lifeline. Yeah. It became a lifeline for our restaurant partners because they were having a ton of trouble, but they got to keep employing their employees as well.

8:31And then also became a lifeline for our drivers because we said, well, you were driving people. Yeah. Now you can drive food. Yeah. And keep earning as well. So it really was such a blessing for us and a blessing for our ecosystem and our partners as well. And was this global? This was, yeah, it was absolutely global. So Uber Eats was everywhere. Yeah, and now Uber Eats is about half of the business. It's half, is it? We think that there's a scenario where people don't go to restaurants, but now nobody goes to cinemas. They watch their movies at home. and could there be a situation where people say, well, why do we go to a restaurant when the restaurant could come to us?

9:11But then last night I was here and I was in the kitchen and I looked around. I just watched people bump into each other. We had Mandy noticed that somebody else on the other side of the room, he'd met at a conference last night and they were all around and then you had another person who was here celebrating their kid's birthday and I thought, well, that couldn't happen if you just were at home eating. I don't want to take this away, but we want you to bring people here and take food to people. That's the cool thing about Uber, which is we want people to go out of their house, which is the mainline Uber business, and also people get delivery.

9:52And I do think that the restaurant business is changing. And you know this, Ruthie, which is there's a part of the business that's about the food, but there's a part that's about the hospitality and the environment. You walk into this place, and instantly just the lighting you have yeah it's so beautiful thank you and you the instant you walk into this place it feels bright and so i do think that restaurants need to have a clear identity as to is it the food is the hospitality is it something else what is it that makes them special and there are restaurants you know quick service restaurants where it's mostly about the food where delivery is the main line and and so delivery allows someone you you're not restricted by the size of your dining room you know and the kitchen becomes a thing and the dining room isn't the thing and so in that case delivery is great for these players because they get to expand they get to have incredible scope and even even with some of them they have dark kitchens yes which is they take their recipes and and they get to really expand their scopes but then I think for you you have a clear identity which is it the food is special yeah but then there's a hospitality and people getting together and the accidental yeah kind of you know uh interactions that people have as well and the environment yeah and and I do think you need to up that hospitality and really keep that in mind in order for restaurants like yours to thrive No, we do.

11:22And I think that, you know, why do people go to restaurants? You know, as you say, when you get up and why do you go, you go because of the spontaneity. You go because sometimes you can have a conversation that you're describing around a table in a restaurant where you're being taken care of. So you can take care of yourselves and your family. It's a welcome. I always say that, you know, I might go back to a restaurant if I would, if the sea bass was overcooked. But I won't go back if the wine waiter made me feel stupid.

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12:17What I thought would be good is if you read this recipe, and we, you know, there are very few people who get to read a recipe that isn't the River Cafes. But as we're saying about your culture, your history, your family, your country, that to start with a recipe from Iran would be very moving to me and probably much more delicious than anything I could write. So why don't we hear your recipe and tell us about it. Wonderful, wonderful. So this recipe is Orme Sabzi and it's an Iranian stew. and we came to America when I was nine years old. We had to escape Iran and we lost everything leaving, leaving Iran.

13:01Our family was very, very well off. My father was a patriot. He wanted to leave all of his money in Iran and reinvest in Iran, which wasn't so good for us when we left. But for us then food was always home. Family was always there and food was always home. So whatever we were going through as a family, the family dinner was a religion. We always got together. And my mom is a spectacular cook. And Bordemusabzi, I mean, there's a lot that she can cook, but Bordemusabzi was one of her specialties as well. It's a tough one, it's not an easy recipe. So the ingredients are onion, diced, four cloves of garlic, a teaspoon of turmeric, one ground beef ground, some Persian limes, kidney beans that are dried, some parsley, cilantro, fenugreek, which is really important, one cup of fenugreek, two cups of fresh chives, and then salt, pepper, and oil.

14:04You saute the onion and garlic first, get some flavor, stir in the turmeric. You add the beef to the pan, season well with salt and pepper. the only criticism that i made of my mom is my family had high blood pressure so she would try to pull back on the salt i worship salt uh you stir it to brown uh all sides now here's the thing with the limes you puncture the limes yeah uh and then you add it to the meal with the beans and so the lime juice gets in there and then the lime itself once in a while when you eat you can kind of squeeze the lime and get some of the juice out like there's this really sharp tang to it that's awesome i would like eat the limes the limes yeah i don't think that many people do that you add four cups of water cover and you cook for an hour you've got to be patient this is a meal that like you plan the meal this is not a meal that oh what am i going to cook yeah yeah okay you fry the chopped herbs uh olive oil for a couple minutes you add you add to the meat and beans then you lower the heat you cover and cook for another two hours so again this is you've got to let this thing go you stir the pot and then adjust the seasoning to taste and then you serve over white rice and it reminds me of home and I've got to ask my mom to make me some or Miss Absie but is it that you have generally or is it a celebration dish Is it something you have at New Year's?

15:37Because somebody was telling you there's a special recipe that you have at New Year's. I mean, it's definitely for holidays, et cetera. As you can tell, it needs a lot of work, lots of chopping of the vegetables. So this is not a casual affair. But if I could have it every single week, I'd do it. And Iranian food takes time. It does, doesn't it? It's not a fast cooking kind of an endeavor. It takes time. And I think with that brings a lot of love. It does. It does. Which is what makes it special. Now, I have a present for you, a special presentation. You're the first guest that ever bought me a present.

16:12Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like this. We have a new set. Yeah, exactly. Everyone's going to have to be a present. Yeah, okay, let's see. Now, this is not in Korma Sabzi, but this is saffron. And as you know, saffron is very, I think it's per ounce more valuable than gold. And this is saffron is a very, very popular ingredient in Iranian food. What a beautiful case. Thank you very much. Can I open this up? Yeah, absolutely. And another meal that my mom made was tachin, which is kind of the, you put the saffron in the rice together and the flavor of the saffron and the rice come together along with chicken or something like that.

16:55So that's also a memory of mine. Thank you. You're welcome. Absolutely. I didn't see any Saffron in your... Yeah, we do. Do you do Saffron? Because, you know, risotto milanese, which is, you know, very often if you have asabuco or so-cooked fielshin, we do it with risotto milanese. And it is just saffron and rice risotto. Well, we brought it for your staff, too, so they can take some. We did? Yeah, absolutely. That's really nice of you. This is beautiful. But we will make this. And you need a very tiny, tiny bit, don't you? Tiny bit, yes. Because if you put too much, it goes that kind of very yellow, strong color.

17:27It can dominate. And it's actually quite a subtle, oh, this is so kind. Thank you. Well, let's do more again. It's a beautiful box. Little memory for you. Let's go from being born to nine years old. Yes. That history, but then we'll go on. Tell me about your family. Tell me about your house. Did you live in the center of Tehran? We lived in a neighborhood in the north of Tehran, which is the capital. And then if you look north, they're the Elbers Mountains. So it's quite a dramatic setting. Tehran my family and the Albers are incredible and my family it was a family that emigrated from Tabriz which is a small town it was a merchant family and we built a big family business what year would this be?

18:17this is in the 60s I don't know exactly the year but it was in the 60s where they moved from Tehran from Tabriz to Tehran but they were working before that work they were it was it was basically a merchant family and then what we did is we built up essentially a pharmaceutical and consumer manufacturing business uh in iran um and and we were one of the probably there are five or six large families in iran that own these industrial conglomerates the shah at the time was trying to modernize the economy and modernize society generally and we were a part of that modernization uh and we would license consumer goods from western companies manufacture them in iran distribute them in iran and in the middle east as well and because it was a family business family was all around so my uncle lived next to us my great-grandfather lived in a house uh right above us literally like looming your grandfather's father yes yes multi-generational family um and and literally my family was all around us we would just walk from one house to the other to go see cousins so you know in iran family is one your definition of family is different what would that be you know your cousins and second cousins and third cousins they're they're just all cousins and just family is just a part of your existence and and you know when i was nine uh we were very very well off the revolutions or signs of the revolution started happening what year are we in now this is 1978 77 going into 1978 uh and and you know the the shot wasn't perfect and as part of his modernization he there were there were parts of the population that were left behind that didn't feel like they were participating in um the improvements and the lifestyle of people in the big city you know my family included uh and and i think in hindsight in hindsight is 2020 probably tried to modernize too quickly uh and as a result there was this pushback to to Islam, to traditions, and that's when Khomeini came in to the US, my family fled thinking that we would just leave the country for a couple of months while things would calm down.

20:49And things didn't calm down. But when you were growing in that nine years before you left, leaving home at nine, changing, as you say, that's a very vulnerable age for your parents, your whole family to move up. But do you have a memory of that, apart from the family, did you gather together for meals? Oh, yeah. And would you have cooks who would make people these people? We would have cooks. Yeah. So for us, dinner was religion. It was. Family dinner was religion. How many would be there at a family dinner? We would probably have any time. Sometimes it was just us, which was the five of us. I've got two other brothers and my mom and my dad.

21:32But then often we would have cousins there as well. And remember, we have the dining room and then the kitchen right close by. And we did have a cook. Do you remember the kitchen? Oh, yeah. You did? What was it like? Yeah. It was just this big center of activity, et cetera. We had a cook, Soleimon. Soleimon was his name. And he was kind of always leading. You know, it's the preparing food. it's almost like he was an orchestrator you know getting everyone because usually we did have a lot of uh guests guests as well would your mother go in and cook with oh yeah do you think he taught her to cook or did her mother teach her she was i don't know who taught whom but she she's a great cook so when we came to the u.s like she was yeah cooking up a storm uh so i i think i think it was a team effort but but i remember like one um one meal another very popular meal is chela kebab which are these kebabs.

22:29It's these kebabs, but you bang on the kebab. Flatten them. Yeah, you flan the kebab. And so one of the really fun things that I would do is, you know, I get the big pounder, and I'd like pound the kebab, and Suleiman would kind of tell me how to do it. And then you'd stick the shish kebab, and then you'd put it on a grill. I'm sorry? On a grill? Yeah, on a grill, on kind of a wood fire grill. And it was just divine. So would you spend time in the kitchen? Oh, yeah. We were running around with, Suleiman was like, you know, a god to us. He was this, you know, incredible person. And you'd go to school all day and then come home, do your homework and sit down to dinner?

23:09I don't remember doing homework, but I'm sure I did some homework. That was not like the lead memory, but it was just, you know, it was three boys running around and a bunch of cousins running around.

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24:07But there was a kind of progression. There was a, you know, my grandfather came first, then he sent for my grandmother and the family. But to be, and we see it happening here right now, unfortunately. You know, tragically, we see people who have to seek asylum. It's something that we confront. But the fact that your family confronted it. Tell me about leaving. Did you come home from school one day and they said, we're going tomorrow? Or was it part of a discussion? So the event that caused us to leave was actually, we had a big house. And I believe one of the Shah's cousins lived across the street from us.

24:48And at some point, there were these revolutionary guards who wanted to come across our house and get to the other house. And so as they jumped over the walls and came through our house, one of their rifles went off. The guards. Yeah, the guards who were rushing this other house. And bullets went through our house and shattered the living room window. and at that point we didn't want to leave but at that point my mom said let's go we went to France where we had a place and again we expected to go back so we being who? your parents, your brother myself, my mom and my brothers and a lot of my other family as well and you were allowed to leave we were allowed to leave at the time it was before things got really bad had the Shah already left?

25:41no, his cousins I think Khomeini had come back and I think the Shah had not yet left. It was a little bit before the Shah left. It was a long time ago, so I might be wrong. And then we went to the south of France and then it became clear things were not going to be okay. We were lucky enough to have an uncle, Uncle Nassi, who lived until he was 103. He recently passed, who had a house in Irvington, New York. I see, yeah. And he was the one who would license U.S. goods for us to manufacture or U.S. brands for us to manufacture in the U.S. He said, come stay with us. So we went to Uncle Nessie's house.

26:23He had a huge house in Irvington, New York. And, you know, for the kids, for me, I got to hang out with my cousins. Yeah. And it was a great adventure. So I know that it sounds difficult. And it was difficult. but my parents did a great job of shielding the children. We got to live with family and so that was consistent. We were lucky enough to speak English although boy the Americans spoke way faster than I could understand. We went to a school, just local schools. We went to a school that my cousins went to in Westchester County in Tarrytown which is very, very close. and then my my mom had to start working because we didn't have money here so she went from you know a life of plenty my father also uh was working he tried to develop real estate and and tried a bunch of business ventures ultimately they didn't work out unfortunately uh my mom went back to your mother went to work yeah i'm not back to work it was the first time How old has she been, do you think?

27:33God, she's, it's got to be, yeah. I would say her 30s. She worked at a boutique, Celine, in New York City. Yeah, yeah. And then my mom and dad started a consignment shop together to sell secondhand clothes, you know, stylish, beautiful secondhand clothes as well. Did you get American passports? Or had you had that? We eventually, so the first goal was to get a green card. Yeah. And it was a huge battle to get a green card. it was and and you know a green card meant you could stay and it still is supposed to mean yes yes i mean that is that is something that is being you know demolished right now but it is it is and and i think i think a lot of americans or people who've grown up in a particular um let's say in the west don't really appreciate what we have here you know the rule of law the fact that You can keep what you earn, pay your taxes, et cetera.

28:29The stability that the West represents, the openness that the society represents. And we were so desperate to get that green card. And again, we were lucky enough. We had a lawyer who fought for it. And I do remember the interviews for the green cards, finally getting it. And then over a period of time, we got our passports. But for me, it was all of my family and my brothers. we each got our passports over different periods of time and i actually waited a little bit longer than i had to um because i you know i i wasn't i come to the u.s and i was very thankful for everything that the u.s offered us but but there's a little bit of resentment of the u.s as well you know it's everything the plenty that everything that the u.s had and then i remember this distinctly i was watching the atlanta olympics um and that was what in the 80s yeah it was in the 80s and and for the first time i was just absolutely like rooting for the u.s you know before the olympics i was kind of well who am i going to root for i'm not american i'm not iranian who am i and and i was watching at olympics i was like i'm an american i love this country i'm so thankful and that's when i got the passport but but for me it's something i don't take for granted You know, this is what America, what the UK offer to immigrants to hopefully become a part of that society and to contribute that to society.

30:03It's magical. And it's fragile. It really is. It's fragile. And that's why we're really talking about today, today, today. Yes, yes. And it's something. And I think you've done that in your work as well. I think, you know, it's something, again, I'd like to talk later about. But I think Uber. Uber. It's a bridge for so many people who come onto our system into the financial system. Often it's the first time they're opening up a bank account. It's the first time that they can earn predictably for their family. And for some, it becomes a profession. There are a number of full-time Uber drivers, et cetera.

30:39I was just talking to one of our drivers who was a, actually it was in brazil whenever i go visit of course i'll go visit with merchants and drivers um and she'd just gone through a divorce yeah and she became an uber driver to support herself and she now she supports four kids and has bought a house and she was so proud yeah of what she accomplished i do know having you know done a bit of research that your father had to go back Yes, yes. So he went back. My grandfather got sick. And it looked like he was at his deathbed. So my father went back to be with his father. And magically, my grandfather got better.

31:27Because your grandparents didn't come with you when you left. They didn't go with us. And because, again, we didn't expect things to happen that way. We just went out of an abundance of caution, which turned out to be much needed. And so when he was there and his father got better, he wanted to bring his father out as well. And if it was just my dad leaving, he could have gone over the border or something like that. But the government wouldn't allow him to leave. So he wasn't imprisoned or anything like that. But they wouldn't allow him to leave for six years. Six years. Six years. he finally got to leave but when he was actually on the flight and it was a flight to Paris and then Paris connection from Paris to the US when he was on the flight person came in called his name Asked Hosef Shahi at the Tehran airport in the plane his Asked Hosef Shahi on the flight he didn't say anything apparently he had a heart attack on the flight and he flew to Paris and then got on the flight from Paris to New York he got into New York my mom saw him took him straight to the hospital he had triple bypass surgery survived and lived for another 30-40 years so it was quite the story he was getting out and then my grandfather got out as well went to live in LA where it's warm and the weather is wonderful so it all ended well but there were some pretty tough moments six years six years what was that like i wrote to him a lot so we constantly wrote to each other and and it was i think when i left i was 13 when he left uh and writing to him actually created a deeper connection there's there's something in the written word that's magical it's it's not necessarily casual conversation you want to dig deeper then it was a nice day and school was good etc um and i guess he was bored in iran he didn't have much to do so he wrote these work did he go back to the company or uh no the company was taken over by a member of the irgc a company still around it's still around it's profitable but it's now the property of one of these uh religious leaders who just took it uh from us um but we wrote each other and and i still remember when he left my dad was yeah up here and then when he got back he was shorter than i am so it was just so weird seeing him as a child and then seeing your father who was diminished both physically and then to some extent he lost six years of his life he had been away from us yeah and and i remember we i was sophomore year in college i went up to school he wanted to drive me i went school in providence we're allowing and it's three and a half hour drive and he just wanted to hang out i went to brown yes and then my granddaughter just got early admission to really congratulations that's nice yeah great school i know it's a wonderful excited yeah and so i remember going there and and then he dropped me off and he just wanted to hang out yeah and i'm a dumbass sophomore desperate to go hang out with my friends and all this but my dad wanted to hang out and it was a really sad and sweet kind of moment where i said well let's go to lunch and let's sit down and in my you know teen head let me go hang out with my kids but but but we hung out and it was a it was a better way to separate than the first time we separated and your mother at the time so So was the Iranian culture still, you say it was very prevalent in your house, but was it prevalent?

35:26Very much so. And was it through the food? I always say that when you look at immigrant families that come here, that the child really rejects almost their culture and has fish and chips and hamburgers and Kentucky fried chicken. And the mother tries to adapt, and so she'll probably do both. but it's a grandmother who brings a culture of the food with her, you know, in many families that people I've spoken to. But in your case, it wasn't your grandmother. It was your mother. It was my mom. And so would she make Western food, or was it mostly the food of her youth? It was mostly Iranian food that she would make.

36:07She really took the time. And Iranian food, again, it's not simple. It takes a lot of work. If you know how to do it, you can set it up so it's a little bit easier. But our sitting down and having Iranian food, there was nothing better. And then, of course, like, you know, going to McDonald's was a treat. Yeah, of course, yeah. Right? So the American food and fast food was kind of a new thing. Yeah. So that was a treat as well. And at Brown, did you cook? Did you go out to restaurants? At Brown, it was mostly cafeteria. Yeah. I did a mean mac and cheese. you know i was very creative with the macaroni and cheese tell me about it you know tomato tomato macaroni and cheese tuna macaroni and cheese so i i went to the level of creativity that i had at that time but i'll tell you like i i love cooking now cooking cooking is is is very special for me in what way uh in in that especially when i'm home on the weekends i travel obviously now it first of all it's a time for myself and my wife sid to connect yeah and so we plan the recipe one of us goes shopping and then when we're making food we're standing around the kitchen it's just a time for us to talk and you know she's and you're kind of busy but you can also talk as well do you use cookbooks yes we do uh i'll use the new york times cooking app a that's good isn't it is that is that terrible of no it's good i use it i love it it's very good i think it's really clever the way the new york times take took that section which nobody really knows what to do with now and made it in that in a very modern way but also i like it and you know you get the ingredients you can upload it go go shop etc she's more of a probably ingredient follower recipe follower i use the recipe as a guideline and then i like to have a little bit more fun yeah um i think she's a better cook than i am i wouldn't dare say otherwise i can tell the world yeah why would you just leave out the dare say otherwise yeah i should say she is she is a better cook than i am um and and then you know there's the the kids set the table yeah the kids clean out because adults have done the work of so it's just there's a there's a rhythm to it yeah When we have dinner, put down the phones, no distractions.

38:38And it's something I associate with growing up. Like that time sitting down together with no distractions, talking about your day, talking about politics, talking about whatever. It's just, I think for me it feels healing and fulfilling. you know my time with my wife and then with time with the kids talking about whatever it's it's really important and it stays with you i think it'll stay with them two more minutes but i promised i would tell you the story jj abrams yes you know who directed star wars famous director is a very close friend of mine and he i was having dinner here about 10 years ago with bob biker who's also a friend we were sitting at the table jj was filming star wars here and so i knew that JJ wanted to talk to Bob, Bob wanted to talk to JJ, but there were different tables.

39:32So JJ came over to the table and it was like, there was Bob Iger. And they started talking right away. And Bob said, JJ, why don't you sit down and we'll discuss this more? And JJ said, I would, but I have an Uber waiting and I don't want to lose my star. Yes, JJ has it right. and he's thinking about the driver he was thinking he didn't want to lose his star he's a great director and a great uber writer his boss is everything so I said to him last night I said can I tell that story JJ and he said go for it Ruthie but also at the end why didn't you say if Dara was a good interview that he had a 5 star rating 5 stars is that the highest you can get that's the best you can get thank you so much So we, you know, first of all, thank you so much for this.