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Ruthie's Table 4: Episode Summary - From the Archive: Adwoa Aboah
Podcast Overview
- Title: Ruthie's Table 4
- Description: Celebrating over 30 years of The River Cafe in London, the podcast features conversations about food memories with renowned guests. Host Ruthie Rogers explores the deep connections between food, culture, and personal experiences, with guests sharing their stories and favorite recipes.
Episode Details
- Episode Title: From the Archive: Adwoa Aboah
- Episode Description: A revisit to the conversation with Adwoa Aboah, a prominent fashion model and political activist, reflecting on her life, family, mental health, and the significance of food.
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Key Themes & Discussions
Adwoa Aboah's Background
- Family Connection: Adwoa Aboah's parents have been integral to the River Cafe community since its inception, with Adwoa herself dining there as a child.
- Childhood Memories: She recalls enjoying simple dishes like pasta with butter and cheese at the cafe.
Personal Journey
- Mental Health Advocacy: Adwoa founded the organization Girls Talk to support young women's mental health and provide a community for sharing experiences.
- Career Path: Transition from modeling to a focus on acting and activism, navigating personal struggles and societal pressures.
Food & Family
- Culinary Heritage: Discussion about Ghanaian cuisine, including traditional dishes like jollof rice and fufu, and the importance of family meals.
- Cooking Experiences: Adwoa enjoys cooking simple meals and reflects on the joy of sharing food with loved ones.
Insights on the Fashion Industry
- Body Image and Pressure: Conversations about the expectations placed on models regarding body shape and size, and the impact of social media on self-perception.
- Cultural Representation: Addressing the challenges of being a woman of color in the fashion industry and how recent movements have started to shift industry standards.
Reflections on Growth
- Self-Discovery: Adwoa shares her evolving relationship with her body and how her understanding of beauty has changed over time.
- Social Media Impact: Discusses the pressures of social media on young people today compared to her own experiences growing up.
The Importance of Storytelling
- Podcast Purpose: Both Adwoa and Ruthie emphasize the power of storytelling in connecting people and reducing stigma around mental health.
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Key Takeaways
- Food as Comfort: Adwoa reflects on the emotional connections to food and how meals cooked by loved ones provide comfort.
- Community and Support: The significance of having supportive spaces for dialogue, especially concerning mental health.
- Cultural Identity: Navigating personal heritage and identity in the public eye, and how these experiences shape one's perspective.
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Conclusion This episode encapsulates a rich dialogue about personal and cultural identity, the pressures of the fashion industry, and the profound connections that food fosters in our lives. It highlights Adwoa Aboah's journey as an advocate for mental health, her experiences growing up in a vibrant cultural setting, and the importance of sharing stories to foster understanding and connection.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00This is an iHeart Podcast.
0:54We'll be right back.
1:00at washablesofas.com. Authors are subject to change, and certain restrictions may apply. You are listening to Ruthie's Table 4, in partnership with Montclair.
1:12In September, the River Cafe will be 36 years old, and one of the great joys of having a restaurant for so long is watching the second generation, and now even a third generation, of our early customers grow up. Adwa's parents, Charles Eboa and Camilla Lowther have been part of the River Cafe family since we opened and Adwa has gone from being a young child ordering pasta, butter and cheese and then playing in the garden space outside with her friends to a formidable woman focused on the political and social issues relevant today after her own struggles with mental health and to support young women's well-being she founded the organization Girls Talk, providing a safe space for girls to access resources, share experiences, create community, and feel less alone, a place to escape the chaos of the everyday.
2:08I think a beautiful phrase. Today, Adwa's just come from the kitchen, grilling scallops and frying zucchini, and she's going to tell us what she learned and read the recipe so you can cook this at home. It's both moving and exciting for me to have Adwa here. Oh, that was so nice. So you've been in the kitchen. You've been in the River Cafe kitchen, which you, do you remember coming here as a child? My God, all the time. Little girl. All the time. Ronnie and Jonathan. Yeah. They used to take us all the time. And you've just been in the kitchen. And so you watched, your request for the recipe was scallops, grilled scallops with chili and zucchini.
2:49eat. My name's Adriana and I'm a chef at the River Cafe and today I'm cooking some scallops on the grill. So first thing that... My name's Abjo and I'm not cooking anything on the grill. You can cook it with me if you want. Yeah, okay. Okay, cool. We put them in the center of the grill because that's the hottest place. How long do you have to leave them on for? Not very long at all. So you just keep them, don't move them around, keep them where they are and then they'll start kind of coming off. You can kind of look at the bottom and see how they're cooking. Because if you move them too quickly then they'll stick.
3:32And then we're going to get some fritti made. I think Harry you're doing fritti right? Can you drop some fritti for us please? So we have two recipes. One I think it's really for the batter for the zucchini and then quite simple the scallops scallops and zucchini fritti for firm ripe zucchini one liter sunflower oil for the batter one cup all-purpose flour three tablespoons extra virgin olive oil i get always get really confused at the tablespoon and teaspoon yeah well there is a difference like one is quite small no no but like the way it's written yeah Oh, because it goes T-B-S-P, that's tablespoon, and T-S-P is teaspoon.
4:17Yeah. Three tablespoons extra virgin olive oil, three tablespoons warm water, three egg whites, scallops, 16 shelled sea scallops, two lemons, extra virgin olive oil. Cut the zucchini into ovals, then into thick matchsticks. For the batter, sift the flour into a bowl, making a well in the center. Pour in the olive oil and stir. Loosen the paste by slowly adding enough warm water to make a batter the consistency of heavy cream. Leave for 30 minutes. Heat the oil in a high-sided pan to 375 degrees. Beat the egg whites until stiff and fold into the batter. Dip zucchini, then fry in batches in hot oil until golden and crisp.
5:08Serve immediately. Scallops, heat the grill. Season the scallops very generously on both sides with salt and pepper. Actually, she said only salt and then pepper at the end. Don't put the pepper on. Yeah, don't. It burns quickly, so put the pepper on afterwards. Put the pepper on afterwards. Place on the grill until lightly brown and crisp, then turn over the grill on the other side. The scallops should be tender on the inside and crisp on the surface. Serve with lemon and a drizzle of olive oil. And I had some chilli online. so do you have to plate it all up yes that's the really fun part about working here is that you get to plate all of your food because who would usually do that in like another restaurant you bring it up to the pass and maybe someone on the pass would plate it but here you get to do it and it gives you I mean for me it's really satisfying good portion let's do it there we go that's it Amazing.
6:08Yum. Wow. I'm coming here for dinner. Tell me about going to Vogue with Edward, because we did, when Edward Ennefeld became the editor, we did the party here. Do you remember that? We had a party for him. It was a great party. You were the cover for his first issue. Yeah, that was mad, that Vogue party. I remember that like it was yesterday. I remember I was driving here, and I, you know, Edward and I still laugh about it now. It's like, it wasn't naivety. I think it was just this, we were just doing something that felt very special to both of us. It was like this, we were embarking on this new journey and it wasn't necessarily that we were, we were completely naive to how the world was going to embrace it.
6:58You know, not only just people in fashion, but worldwide. You know, it really went viral, do you know what I mean, I think. and so as we kind of pulled up I pulled up I can't remember who I was in the car with maybe it was like my mom and dad and sister and we pulled up the shepherd's bush roundabout and it was projected on shepherd's bush roundabout what the hell is going on and I looked on my phone and it was just like going mad and I actually like broke out into hives I was like oh my god this is so much I don't even know how to like deal with the situation I pulled up to River Cafe and And Edwin and I just giggled.
7:33We could not stop laughing. I think we were both so overwhelmed by what had happened that we kind of just, like, could not stop laughing. It was mad. It still feels really mad. We all had ravioli. We had this long discussion before whether all the Vogue people, the models and the actresses and the young beauties of today would actually have gluten, carbs, cheese, butter, and whether we would serve it. And we did. And Bo was actually really cool because we said, do you want to find out what people want to eat? And they go, no, we're done with that. We're done with, you know, if you have a food preference, we're just going to do the menu and what they eat.
8:15And everybody had ravioli and everybody, a lot of people had seconds of ravioli. And yet the whole issue of being a model about your body, Talk about being a woman in a profession that requires you to be a certain shape and size. I think, I don't remember being worried. I think there were moments when I was at school where I was kind of worried about what I looked like. Sometimes I didn't, I wasn't at a girls school, but you know, I lived in a house full of women. So sometimes when someone would get a bit weird with food or they'd have issues, it kind of sometimes bleeds into everyone else within the community.
8:59Do you know what I mean? We see that all the time. And I think when I started modeling, I don't, again, remember feeling that pressured about it. I think I just felt incredibly painful in my own body in general. So it wasn't necessarily weight-related. I think there's always been parts of my body that I haven't loved, and I've had to grow to love. Are you the kind of person that can eat but not gain weight? Yeah, because I've always done lots and lots of sports. But were other models that you were with, did you feel that to be a model you had to be a sport? Yeah, I got weird with food for a period of time, actually when I got sober, and they call that transference, I think I was just trying to control something else in my life.
9:45So I got a bit weird with food when I was about 22. I think it was just control, to be quite honest. And I think, wait for me. You know, if I'm, I suffer with anxiety, you know, and so when I'm anxious, it just falls off. It falls off, yeah. I'm not the type of person, sometimes I am eating, but it literally just falls off all the time. So sometimes I haven't even been, like, aware of, like, dropping weight. I think I've always done a lot of exercise and kind of now do Pilates. So I used to build a lot of muscle. So my body has changed, like, you know, over the course of, like, many years, I think.
10:33And so I think when I got started modeling properly, I decided there was a part of me that had that to do it, to really kind of walk into it again. I had to take on, it was almost like a, it wasn't necessarily that I felt like that, but I had to be like, this is who I am, do you know what I mean? Like, take it or leave it, do you know what I mean? I'm not going to be sucked into this idea that I should be thinner or look a different sort of way for you to kind of appreciate me or want me. So I had to, and that's not exactly how I felt all the time, but I had to sort of fake it to make it. So it wasn't necessarily, I think I've always, I don't know, I was speaking on my own podcast about this the other day.
11:29I think, I wonder if my relationship with myself will ever be what I want it to be whilst I model. I don't know if my, I have a, to a certain extent, a healthy relationship with myself. But I wonder if my relationship with my body will ever be what I want it to be as long as I'm kind of within the industry. And yes, it has changed like drastically. Do you know what I mean? the likes of amazing people spearheading different sorts of movements. But, you know, we only have to kind of look at certain photos or fashion shows and we see the kind of pressure that's put on us. I almost find it painful.
12:16I haven't been to that many catwalk shows. I think it probably has, Jane. When you see, you know, how thin and kind of serious and, you know, I know it's there to just showcase the clothes, and so it's like being a hanger. But there is something as a woman to see women doing that job. It's a little bit distressing. Yeah, and also when you know that someone's kind of unwell, whatever that looks like for different people, when you know someone's kind of suffering with disordered eating, but they are praised and celebrated within the industry and they work even more, it's that in itself is an uncomfortable thing to get your head around i think that's where sometimes the pressure for me lies it isn't that i want to be unwell it's just the fact that i see people doing well because of it do you know i mean and that's a that's that's a mad thing to get your head around do you know i mean and it's and i don't think that kind of breeds um healthy ways of looking at yourself, you know, if you're being told that you are better for being thin.
13:26And I suppose the other, you know, we haven't talked about, we've talked about body image and modeling. We haven't talked about race. And I think that there is also the issue of what it was like to be or what it is like to be a woman of color in a very, what was, thanks to Edward, it's not so much and people like Edward but how that affected you? I think that's something that I'm really delving into at the moment is how a lack of understanding about my own identity has really kind of hindered certain aspects of my growth do you know I mean and having been brought up in a predominantly white space what that how that has affected me how the things that I've tolerated the things that I've kind of brushed off and I think because of the resurgence of Black Lives Matter the conversations that they were having it kind of it really kind of shook people's core it wasn't that we were just talking about slavery something that happened you know years and years ago when people many years I know but for certain people like they weren't around where they happened you know when that happened so they were like oh I wasn't part of that I mean I would that I didn't do anything like that.
14:38And I think Black Lives Matter kind of brought it, made it current. And suddenly you were kind of, they were speaking about things that you had to check yourself on. And I had to, suddenly was, I think, validated in a lot of experiences and feelings that I had surrounding my own race and how I'd had to kind of navigate certain situations. And also I think I was, also my privilege, you know, we talk about colorism, within the community as being someone who's like mixed race and lighter skin the way that I was treated compared to um my cousins who are you know who are a lot darker skin than me you know I think that's a conversation that we don't have enough either um but um for me I think it was great you know when Edward started doing what he was doing what he does and continues to do and sets the bar so high continuously.
15:36I think for me, it had always been unspoken how uncomfortable I'd felt in certain situations. It was almost that I didn't want to give it a name. It's like I felt that there were certain reasons why my career hadn't taken off. When I'd started with certain people who looked very different to me, I think I still was searching for something that was completely unattainable, different hair, different body shape, you know, sometimes even like, you know, different colored skin, you know. And so I think I didn't want to blame it on something like that. I was like, why? You know, I started at the same time as Cara.
16:18I started at the same time as so many girls and they kind of reached such great heights. I was like, why is that? Do you know what I mean? I think it was quite nice when Edward, there was many things that were beautiful about it. but having him come in and be like, we've got to change that. This is what is going on, do you know what I mean? Were you born here or in Ghana? Yeah, yeah, born in London. And your father is from Ghana? Yeah, Ghanaian. He was born in Accra. So going back was part of your childhood? Yeah, very much so. It was always something that we did. Sometimes my mum came and sometimes it was just the three of us.
16:53And I think it felt quite alien at that time and as I grew older and kind of my career changed and obviously I became like a grown-up, my relationship with Ghana very much changed. I felt like kind of, instead of just a kind of traveller, someone who'd like been born in London and who'd come back to Ghana, I felt like they really claimed me, which was really like a kind of beautiful experience, you know. I think especially after the British Vogue cover, you know, it was like they call you a Bruni, which means like a kind of traveller because I'm obviously a little paler skin than most Garniers.
17:28And I think after that, I felt very much claimed by the people there, which was really, really amazing. But I have the most amazing memories of Ghana. We always used to stay at my grandma and granddad's. It's just a modest house next to a nursery. So there were always kids playing outside. My grandma has always had a little corner shop, So we'd go in there, get our cold bottles of Coke and biscuits. Then we'd sit there and watch her and my Aunt Mary. All three of them lived together. So we'd watch them do their thing. Did you cook? Did she cook for you? Yeah, she cooked. And then she had a woman who also helped her comfort.
18:13What is Ghanaian food like? It's amazing. I mean, you've got the jollof rice. You've got lots of different kind of fish. You've got fufu. What's fufu? So it's like a kind of dough that you dip into a soup. The spice there is kind of like, it's like an oily one. It's amazing. And chili. Yeah. A lot of chili? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And fish? Really spicy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Did you go to the market? Yeah. God, the markets are mad. Are they? Mad. Like insane. Just like bustling food, clothes. People wandering around. It's like mental, but amazing. And how long would you stay? We'd stay for like two weeks.
19:00I have some cousins who usually stay there a bit longer. Dad and my sister were there this year. My dad goes back all the time. He does. All the time. My granddad's not alive anymore. My Aunt Mary, she's not alive anymore. But my grandma very much still there. And my Aunt Tina lives with her. So, yeah. So what was it like growing up in your house? You have memories of meals, you know, cooked. My house has always been a place that is kind of people are in and out at all times. You know, I very much grew up with maybe it was someone who had to move in for a bit. You know, my godfather would move in or someone in, you know, distress would be upstairs living in an upstairs room.
19:48there were always parties and dinner parties and lots of different people kind of in and out of the house. My mum has always been like an entertainer. My dad as well. The home has always been one that kind of, it feels like sacred, but they're not precious about it. A place that people want to come to. Yeah, the carpets are rolled up when a party happens. But they've never been kind of like prim and popper, about their places. And were you kids part of it? You weren't sitting on the steps watching the party go on. You were down there. No, we'd be down there. We'd do things like coat check. Yeah.
20:29And we'd charge everyone money. And then they'd find all their coats just piled up on one bed, pretending like we'd organized them. Or we'd be sat on the staircase watching everyone get up to whatever mischief they were getting up to. and then later on we were just joining in. Would you go out a lot? Would you go out to restaurants? We do such amazing things, you know. What did you do? That's the thing about growing up in London. It's like, I mean, I wouldn't want to bring my children out anywhere else. I loved it. Galleries and restaurants and they took us everywhere. It was never about separation.
21:08It was like, you want to sit with the grown-ups? You learn how to sit with the grown-ups. you you know learn how to converse and listen and talk to whoever might be next to you or in front of you but it was never like my parents were never into the idea of like putting you on the kids table yeah you know if we were younger it was like come out enjoy yourself when you get tired just sleep under the table yeah yeah do you know what I mean and then we'll go home and then you went away to boarding school yeah yeah what was that like the food yeah horrible horrible and Millfield's meant was it Millfield yeah I was meant to be rather proud of it, but it was terrible.
21:44I mean, do you know what? Maybe this is my snobby side. I'm not great with a buffet. I think school kind of, like, traumatized me from that. I mean, some days it would be good. Like, the salad station was, like, banging. Like, that was good. But to be quite honest, I lived off Domino's for, like, five years. Oh, you were allowed to? No, you weren't. We weren't allowed, but we'd, like, sneak it in. And then in prep, we'd, like, run out and get the pizza and bring it back in and all share it. On Fridays, we were allowed to order an Indian or a Chinese. Yeah, interesting. So that must have been quite shocking to go from a house that was full of people and friends and good food.
22:26Yeah, I think it was also, I mean, there were certain days where it was good. Chinese day wasn't that bad. Indian day wasn't that bad. How old were you? 13 to 18. That was five years you were at? Yeah. And then you'd come back weekends or would you stay? Well, you were only allowed, what do they call it? I can't remember what they used to call. Exeat. Exeat. Yeah. You were only allowed a certain amount of exeats, but I had the best housemistress on the face of the planet, Mrs. Orton. And she, I was really homesick. Yeah. I mean, I kind of got over it, but it wasn't my favorite of years being at that school.
23:07I had some great friends, but I was just desperate to come back to London. Then from Millfield, you went to university. What was that like? Brunel, yeah. Where is Brunel? That's in Uxbridge. I mean, I tried to get into Goldsmiths. I failed my English exam. I can't remember which one it was because you realise that it really doesn't matter. No, definitely. Yeah. Well, I'm just telling you. I mean, try your best, do all the things, but don't put that much pressure on yourself. We're here with a friend of mine's daughter, the head executive chef's daughter, Pearl Palana. Pearl joined us today because she's a 15-year-old aspiring actor.
23:48She's an enormous admirer of your work. I can't believe Pearl's 15, though. There you go, there you go. And so we were talking about whether university matters. So what was that like? Obviously wanted to save money, so lived at home. But were you happy then? Yeah, I had the best time. Did you? Why? Because I think it was just, I was back home. I was back in London. I was back, it was more, it was predominantly, I mean, Millfield was very kind of like intersectional, do you know what I mean, in many ways, but it was predominantly white. And I think coming back to London, it wasn't just the kind of necessarily race.
24:26It was also a boiling pot of people who'd grown up differently, do you know what I mean? It was like, I'd grown up completely different to a lot of the people in my kind of class, but I just felt like that was just more me. I just wanted to be amongst that. So living at home, did it feel like before you went to Melbourne, were you back to being a child again? No, it was very weird. I wouldn't say it was a great time for mine and my parents' relationship. I think they thought sending me to boarding school, there would be more rules. but actually when someone doesn't know you like a teacher you can get around them do I mean like actually you've kind of weirdly got more space to roam um and so coming back to London obviously there were certain rules but I think if I was honest and I've you know I've spoken to them about this anyway I think coming back home after five years I was a bit like you can't really tell me what to do do I mean I like we haven't lived together for five years so I think that dynamic was quite hard on our relationship.
25:38I think I probably regressed. I think I wasn't used to the fact that I was back living under their roof and I was very much a different person. I remember once saying to my father, I might have said this before, saying to my father when I was 30 or 28 or whatever and I'd been living in London and working and my parents lived in upstate New York in Woodstock. And I once went home and I said to my dad, oh, I'm going to leave the baby and go into New York tomorrow. And he said, I don't think you should do that. And I said, you know what, I live in London and I work and I don't have to ask anybody's, you know, nice way I said permission, but it's interesting that when, you know, I go home, I don't know whether I'm a child or I'm an adult.
26:23And he said, I'll make it really easy for you. The minute you walk in that door, you're a child. And it was actually quite nice because I thought that's kind of why I like going home, You know, is it suddenly somebody's saying, you know, why don't you stay here or whatever? It was just interesting. It's like a dance, isn't it? You have to learn how to live with each other again.
26:53The River Cafe Cafe, our all-day space, and just steps away from the restaurant, is now open. in the morning an Italian breakfast with Cornetti, Ciambela and Crostata from our pastry kitchen in the afternoon ice cream coupes and River Cafe classic desserts we have sharing plates salumi misti, mozzarella bruschetta, red and yellow peppers vitello tonato and more come in the evening for cocktails with our resident pianist in the bar no need to book, see you here
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28:47When you went to Brunel, what were you thinking of majoring? What was your idea? Theater. Yeah, that's what I finished. That's what I majored in. Did you eat out a lot? Did you party? Did you? Yeah, I went out all the time. Did you? All the time. Yeah. I mean, we were so funny. What year was this? I was 18. Yeah. Yeah. And you were born in 94. Ninety-92. Yeah. Yeah. So what, did I finish school? 2010. So 11, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We had the best time. I worked as soon as I kind of finished school. Modeling? There were bits of modeling, but it wasn't, it was like a different time. Do you know what I mean?
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29:25so I worked in the shop, I worked as a nanny. But we were so, we had so much fun, do you know what I mean? We were like, I don't know how it is for you, Pearl, but we just, we were so carefree and mad and doing our thing. But you were probably 18. Yeah, and we'd all pile our money. Yeah, you know what I mean? But I mean just being, but I just mean being young, do you know what I mean? It's like we weren't bothered about kind of what clothes we were wearing or anything like that. We didn't have the pressure of like social media or anything like that. that it was just about being in a gang, do you know what I mean, and roaming the streets.
29:58Mostly girls, or was it? Yeah, mostly. I've always been a girls' girl. Yeah. And we'd all put our money together and, like, share one meal, like poor restaurants where we'd just sit for hours and hours and hours outside kind of coffee shops sharing one coffee between, like, five of us. And they're like, can you leave if you're not going to buy anything? Can you leave? Or we'd go to, like, kind of my friend Josh Delissa, who might as well be my brother. he had a restaurant called Boom Burger. We'd go in there, get cheap prices. We had some Mexican restaurants around the area and we'd all put our money together to share like kind of one plate of food because, I mean, we were quite naughty.
30:37We were spending our money on like alcohol and going out. So we didn't really have a massive interest in spending our money on food. So modeling, when did that happen? And how did that happen? I mean, I've been modeling on and off since I was probably, since I left school. So since I was 18, I did a few bits and pieces, like, before, but my mum was very strict about, and my dad as well, about finishing school. Modelling kind of took quite a long time to kind of take off, so that's why I kind of worked. Did you enjoy it? Yeah, I did. Did you like the process? I think I've learnt to like it more.
31:16I learned to like it when I as cheesy as this sounds when I started to like myself to be quite honest that's when it became more fun and yes there are days when I'm on my period or I'm a bit exhausted where I'm like this is literally the last thing I want to do do you know what I mean it's be like kind of showcased in front of a bunch of people and then kind of it's like Instagram have to kind of and then I start picking apart my kind of who I am do you know I mean face value not who I am as a person actually but can I ask a question yeah what made you want to do a podcast I think it goes back to this this idea of storytelling I think and the information out there on what lived experience does in regards to stigma reduction and suicide reduction um and so I couldn't think of a better place there's something about an honest conversation and honest chat yeah there's so much like intimacy within that and to just listen to someone and I think it really was that it's like to talk to someone to hear their side of a story to hear where they've come from and where they're at and where they hope to be I think that's definitely the essence of having the podcast is is that idea that when we hear someone else's story we were going to feel less alone.
32:41So you were talking about Girls Talk. Tell me when the next series that you're so excited about is coming out. So podcast, I'd say just keep a lookout. It'll be towards the end of the year. Keep a lookout for September. How do we look for it? Yeah, so just our Instagram handle is Girls Talk. I'm at Girls Talk, G-U-R-L-S-T-O-K. Do you listen to Girls Talk? Yeah, I have. What do you like about it? I love listening to things that say, Like, you know, I love those things that's just like, yeah, that so should be said. That so should be spoken about more. You know what I mean? People's fear of speaking out stops them from saying the truth, you know?
33:19That's what I really like about it. You know, like speaking about grievances or trauma or like mental health, like all those type of things are just not talked about enough. Yeah. And I think I can't wait for the new season to come out. I feel more grown up and even more opinionated and even more confident. I find and I don't know if this is because of social media or cancel culture that sometimes we're quite agreeable with each other and I want to have conversations that aren't always with people that I agree with I want to also learn about things that I have no idea about and I want to sometimes have those uncomfortable conversations where I'm not only kind of not necessarily agreeing with the other person, but I'm also being checked about what I don't know and the ways that I think about things.
34:10Do you know what I mean? And so we've kind of changed that, and it's going to be really cool. We've got some mega people on the podcast. I love hearing people's stories. I love meeting people who come from different backgrounds. Exactly. Everybody comes in with a story. You look around, I've had people come in and say, you know, look at how this fabulous restaurant I've had such a hard time lately if you went to every table everybody would have a story you're so good at that though, how you walk around yeah, but you know, people we all think that you see all these people and their lives are perfect and then you find out one has just been divorced or they've had a kid with addiction everybody has a story and so those smiling happy faces whether you see them on Instagram or here you know that everybody has a story and as you say I love walking around and just hearing a bit of the story saying hello do you think Pearl that do you think that's when when um Adwoa talked about social media pressure do you think that exists now a lot?
35:10I think especially hearing about what you were saying about how when you were a kid and you used to like it used to be much different to it is now because you have social media and I think it really affects more how people look at themselves because you have Instagram and you've got TikTok and you've got all these things and if you don't have it you're like not in with the times but if you do then you're just making yourself feel worse by yourself but you can't be like um like for example when people are like oh i don't want social media it's bad people look down on you for it but reality it's much better if you didn't have it like for you you're probably happier in those times than our kids are now oh 100 because it's there's one thing you know getting to know yourself and figuring out who you are over those like 13 to 18 and then onwards do you know I mean it was like such a confusing time and that that's already like you know I was talking to these girls the other day like 13 to 14 and there was a question like what would you say to your younger self and I would be like I used to scrutinize every single thing I did the shoes I wore the way I wore my eyeliner the way my hair was the the way I carried my bag the the way I walked you know I mean I was like always on my case about every single movement and I think I would tell everyone that you don't need to do that I wish I'd stop putting so much pressure on myself because you realize when your world gets bigger that none of them truly matters do you know I mean and I think to add in the pressure of having to kind of be perceived by other people it's like I already was kind of self-conscious so to then have to kind of portray a person that I maybe hadn't become yet.
36:49Do you know what I mean? Something that was maybe just kind of performative would have been like an added pressure at that time. And you know it happens at any age. I can, you know, we're talking women's talk. My husband died a year and a half ago. And sometimes I just look on Instagram and go, you know, another happy family, you know, in the beach resort or another grandparents with a grandchild. I mean, I have that life, but, you know, it's very, you can look at it in terms of whether you're thin enough, whether you're, you know, whether your hair is beautiful, whether you're a certain type, what the clothes you're wearing, the way you carry a handbag, or you can look at it in families and you can see, you know, it just feels that there's, I really, I never post from a vacation.
37:33I really, I've learned that a long time. There's nothing worse than on a day like today working and then you see somebody on there, you know. That's what I'm saying. I was saying that yesterday. You do.
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39:09Is it acting what you wanted to do when you went to Brunel? Yeah, that's what, from 13 until 18, I did that at school. And then I went on to study that at Brunel. And then kind of life took a different direction, not only kind of personally, and then it became something, you know, then I kind of fell into modeling and that started taking over, so I kind of jumped on that bandwagon and that. led me to where I am now and then I think just before COVID I made a kind of decision that I wanted to give it another go you know I wanted to put 100 % in it and see where it would take me because I think when I first left university I had a different head on my shoulders and my priorities were warped and I wasn't a very happy person so I didn't you know have the the capability to give it 100%.
40:04So that's where I'm at now. I'm on that journey. And I absolutely love it. It's ridiculously hard. Respect to all actors and actresses. Is it film or is it theatre that you want to do? Oh, I would love to do theatre one day, but at the moment it's TV and film. TV and film. And now you're living in your own apartment? Yeah, my own house. Yeah, yeah, yeah. How is that? Oh, it's really nice. Well, what's your kitchen? Do you have an open kitchen there as well? Yeah, yeah, yeah. What's it like? Kitchen, it's, my kitchen's yellow, blue and white tiles. I mean. Describe it. It's very much open. I've got an island in the middle that has like a kind of heart bone engraved in it that my friend Jeff did.
40:46It's got a massive, big, like, kind of teak table with matching chairs that I've polstered and, like, leopard print. Are you like your parents? Do you like people coming to you instead of you going to them? Yeah, I love it. I mean, I think to a certain extent, I grew up in an African household. So the idea that we were going to spend the night at other people's houses was like something that was like my dad just did not understand. He's like, you have a bed, you have a house. Like, why do you need to go and stay at someone else's house? There were certain people that we went to. But like eating at home and sleeping at home has always been like a kind of a priority within our house.
41:19You know, let's be together. And what do you cook now when you have your kitchen? I was talking to Pearl about it, actually. I mean, I actually eat in a lot. I now spend a lot of time between London and LA. And when I was working before COVID, I didn't really have the time to cook. It wasn't necessarily a priority of mine. So I used to order a lot of takeaway. And I think after COVID, I started reprioritizing what was important. So I did have more time. And so my boyfriend's a really good cook. My sister lives with me and she's an amazing cook. I like cooking if it's like family or people who are really close to me.
42:01I don't feel the pressure. I'm not the idea of cooking for like 10 people or something that doesn't excite me. If I'm cooking for myself, it's like simple things like fish and vegetables or eggs, soup, you know, stuff like that. You don't eat meat? No, I don't eat meat. I eat fish. Has that been recently? No, no, I haven't eaten. And weirdly, I've started like, I think I've just been listening to my body a bit more. And so like, if it's the time of the month or something like that, I'm like, oh, I kind of really feel like some me. And I've never had that before. So I kind of am listening to my body a bit more, but I still very much like kind of in when I'm cooking at home, especially in L.A., we have like a tiny, tiny kitchen.
42:48so we're not going to cook fish because it would just make the whole house smell like fish, the little flat we have. So we cook a lot of vegetarian stuff in L.A. And then at home, you know, I have more space, and so we cook lots of different things and have people around. I wish I'd grown up in a household full of amazing cooks. My cousin's an amazing cook, my aunt and my uncle, everyone. You know, they have recipes that were handwritten by my grandma about certain things. I love those. Yeah, that. And I think, I remember my mom always saying that when I... Is that your Ghanaian grandmother, your mother's mum?
43:26No, my mom's mom, yeah. I always remember my mom, like, I mean, there were many things that were kind of sad when her mom died. But I think she always thinks about, you know, when she needs answers on certain recipes, she always thinks about the idea of calling my grandma. And my dad is an amazing cook as well. Wow. And so I should be more interested in it. Well, you don't, there's no such word as should. I'm the cleaner. Yeah, well, that's fine. I think everybody figures out. I do the dishes. Well, that's fine. Do you remember when it became possible for you to go out to eat and not think about how much it cost?
44:02Yeah, that's a really good question. I think, so I moved 2017. I moved to LA when I got sober. but I don't, I wasn't eating out that much to be quite honest. I didn't have the money. I'd kind of taken a year off and my mum and dad were supporting me for the first time in a long time which I found like kind of incredibly uncomfortable. So I kind of was under a certain budget, do you know what I mean? And I think probably maybe when I really could just like go to the restaurants and come here and like pay for myself, I probably was about 25. And you'd been... 25 and on. And you had come from modeling over to acting?
44:53Yeah, modeling. Yeah, yeah. That was a big change. Yeah, moving to New York. Yeah. So I moved to New York when I was 24. Right. Had my 25th birthday in New York. And that's probably when it started to change. You know, that's when I could like order a takeaway or like go to this restaurant called Lucienne and like, or get my friend a meal. You're not alone in that. You know, that it was something that I always talked, when I talked to David Beckham, he said he remembered when he took Victoria out and they could actually, you know, not have to completely look at the prices on the right-hand side.
45:28Or Paul McCartney saying that he thought wine was a horrible drink because he could only afford the cheapest, cheapest, cheapest wine, which as we know is pretty hard to drink. And he just thought wine was a horrible drink until he went out with Brian Epstein, who was his manager, and they ordered a fantastic bottle of Lafitte and thought, oh, that's what wine is. The mad thing is I've never tried a good glass of wine. Wow. Never. Well, you're sober now. Yeah, but I got sober when I was 20. It was cheap wine. I got sober when I was 22, so I wasn't spending the money on. We were going to the corner shop and getting a Casarillo Diablo.
46:03You know what I mean? And a cheap bottle of tequila with a hat on it. Sober. And so I've never actually, you know, I've never had a like stunning cocktail. I've never had a like beautiful glass of wine and it's fine. But it is mad to think that I've never actually because, and to be honest, like that's why I could probably like go and eat out. Do you know what I mean? I've never had the expense of having to kind of buy alcohol. Yeah, I've had to buy alcohol as well. And I suppose, you know, for me that is, you know, we all have reasons why we eat the food we eat. Food can be something you have when you're hungry.
46:40It can be something that you have when you want to cook or you want to entertain. It can be, food can be alleviation of pain or sadness. So I suppose, Edouard, that my last question to you is, what would you turn to if you needed food for comfort? Hmm, I'd go home, definitely. I don't know if it's anything in particular. I think it would just be something cooked by my mom and dad. anything that was put in front of me would feel comforting. That's beautiful and a beautiful way to end a wonderful talk. Thank you so much. Thank you. Love you. Love you. Love you, Pearl. Yeah, we love you, Pearl. Thanks.
47:22Thank you.
47:27Thank you for listening to Ruthie's Table 4 in partnership with Montclair.
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From the publisher
In this week's episode of Ruthie's Table 4, we're delving into the archives again, ahead of our return for series 4 in October.
This time, we're revisiting our time with fashion model, actor and political activist, Adwoa Aboah.
Adwoa's parents have been part of the River Cafe family since we opened 37 years ago. Five years later Adwoa was born, and was soon sat in the River Cafe as a child, eating pasta, butter and cheese. Now we're here, talking about her life as one of the most successful models in the world, mental health, and of course, food.
Ruthie's Table 4, made in partnership with Moncler.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.




