From the Archive: Victoria Beckham

0:00This is an iHeart Podcast.

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1:29I can't wait to see you there.

1:35Ruthie, here's a story. My mother, you know what she uses her oven for? Let me guess. Do I hear stockings? No, she used it as a filing cabinet. Oh. As a filing cabinet, yes. If it didn't go in the microwave, Mrs. Adams wasn't interested in it. But this was the 80s when I was growing up and it was all about microwavable food and all being super, super quick. So, you know, as I began my life in the Spice Girls, we were eating out a lot, going to lovely restaurants and that was something really quite new. A fashion designer, cosmetics entrepreneur, dancer, businesswoman, a mother of four, a singer, there are few women who have seven or more adjectives attached to their name, and one of them is Victoria Beckham.

2:28When Victoria comes to the River Cafe, there's no fuss or privilege. She comes in with just her family, her close friends, and her colleagues. She arrives early, so she is there to greet them. And the quiet time before they come is spent discussing with us what is on the menu, how it is prepared, and what she would like to order. food, how it affects our performance our health and happiness and how it is shared is important to Victoria Beckham and Victoria Beckham is important to us Thank you Well you are Well I mean maybe I'll make more fuss when I come the next time if I'm that easy Yeah you can, you can do whatever you want but you are and also I do think that there are other people but very few who always arrive before their guests arrive.

3:23And I think it's a real act of kindness. It shows that you're kind of putting your time aside so that you'll be there to greet them. It's very, very nice. I like it. Well, I'm not sure if it's an act of kindness or if it's just that we're A, desperate to leave the house and have a night on our own. Okay. Or B, that we're just super excited to get here because we adore the experience of coming and the food is always incredible and the wine is wonderful and the people watching is just everything. Good. Well, we're also here to listen to you read the recipe that you've chosen for today. OK, so my recipe is roasted sea bass.

4:03So the ingredients are 2 kilograms of sea bass, scaled and cleaned, 100 gram fennel seeds, 2 sliced lemons, a few parsley stalks, two fennel bulbs trimmed and sliced, the juice of one lemon, five tablespoons of olive oil and 75 milliliters of white wine. So you preheat the oven to 190 degrees centigrade. Preheat the grill. Put half of the fennel seeds inside the cavity of the fish and season generously. Brush the skin with a little olive oil and grill for about five to six minutes on each side until lightly charred. Place half the lemon slices, parsley, fennel and the remaining fennel seeds in a roasting tin.

4:58Lay the fish on top and cover with the remaining lemon, parsley and fennel. Pour over the lemon juice, olive oil and wine and bake for about 30 minutes or until the flesh is firm to the touch. Serve either hot or cold with salsa verde.

5:19So Victoria of all the recipes that we have in our books and what you eat in the River Cafe, why did you choose sea bass? I'm a very fussy eater. I like things to be cooked in a very simple way. I don't like oils and butters and sauces. So to most restaurants I'm probably the worst nightmare. But you guys are always so accommodating and always cook the food exactly how I like it. Very simple, very clean, incredibly fresh, and just perfect. And then, you know, I love some steamed vegetables on the side, some balsamic vinegar, and then to season myself. Did you come to this way of eating or did your parents cook that way?

6:03Did you grow up with very healthy, clean food? Oh gosh, no, quite the opposite. You know, I'd always been to nice places with my parents and been taken on lovely holidays, but I'd never been to the level of restaurant I was going to when I was with the Spice Girls. And it was all very exciting. And very quickly, I came to the conclusion that unless I adapted a very healthy way of eating, I would just be more inclined to sit there and eat the entire contents of the bread basket, which when you're Eating out regularly is probably not the healthiest. Not when you're on tour and you're expecting so much from your body.

6:35So I just decided from that point to really try and eat in a clean way. Lots of fresh vegetables, lots of fish. I don't have any dairy at all. I haven't eaten red meat since I was about seven years old. Before we even go to that, I'd love to know if your mother, do you think that she put her filing in the oven or didn't use the oven because she was doing other things? Did she think cooking was just something she had to do rather than wanted to do, do you think? Do you know, she was always a great mom and a great wife, and she was always busy doing something. But, you know, cooking was never really her thing.

7:09It was never really her passion, if you like. Yeah, fair enough. And she found much better use of her oven. Yeah, and so I tried that myself. But did she do the cooking, or did she have somebody else? No, no, no, she did do the cooking. But, you know, this was when I was younger, this was the 80s, you know, when it was all about microwavable food. You know, it was a real thing. I remember when I was growing up, so many adverts on the television. It was all about food that you could put in the microwave. Fast, easy. Absolutely. No effort and get out of the kitchen. Yeah. And being seven and vegetarian, do you remember what made that happen?

7:46I do. I do. I was at school and I was in a home economics lesson and they were telling us about what was in it. I think it was either hamburgers or sausages or something like that. And I was absolutely horrified and haven't eaten meat since that day. And I have to say, I mean, I don't miss it. I eat lots of fish and I have a very, very healthy way of eating. But no, I haven't touched meat since then. The children do and David does. And it's not something that I did for any reason other than the fact that I just went off of it when I learned what was in it. It shows a kind of determination of a child at that age to do that.

8:24It's a principle, it's a kind of view. So you must have been a strong kid. I mean, I am, and the way that I eat, I'm very, very disciplined. And I think, you know, even Gordon Ramsay, who's a very good friend of ours, has said he's never known anybody be as disciplined about the way that they eat, you know. Because for me, it's just, it's who I am. I expect a lot from myself being, you know, a working mum for children. And I work out a lot and I eat very, very healthily. That's just who I am. And that's just, you know, I'm not the most exciting eater. I like to have a drink with my dinner and then I can become a very good dinner guest.

9:03I'm sure you don't need the drink to make you a good dinner dress. I'm sure that that helps. But I think that it is interesting to hear that trajectory as well. and the discipline. Because we've all been on diets and we all know what it's like to deny ourselves food. And I know that when you hold back sometimes on food, you hold back sometimes on fun or conversation. But I think that your description of your discipline rings true. I absolutely don't deny myself anything. If I wanted something, I'd have it. It's just who I am. I had this healthy way of eating that works for me. When I was growing up, I used to have really bad skin as well.

9:47And I went to see numerous dermatologists over the years and no one could ever figure out what was wrong with my skin, why I had such terrible, terrible skin. And again, that all just cleared up when I started eating in this very clean, healthy way as well. And also I feel that I have great energy. And so I just figured out, you know, and I'm happy the way that I am. You are happy.

10:23We'll see you next time.

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11:48And what about when you were growing up, where would your family all eat together? Did you have family meals? Did you sit in a living room or in the kitchen or the dining room? What were meals at the Addams House like? Well, we always sat together and we'd eat in the kitchen. You know, mealtime has always been important. it's an important time when you're you know when you're all together reflecting on your day and that's something that we do even now you know yeah unless my myself or david are actually traveling we always make sure that we are home at the same time and that the kids are always there and that's a time when we eat together and we discuss our days and i think it's very important and that's how it was when we were growing up you know i was always darting in and out and dancing lessons and singing lessons you know my mum was a taxi driver when I was younger literally running myself and my brother and sister around all the activities you know my mum was a real hands-on mum that's probably part of the reason why she loved the microwave meals because she was always so busy driving us around and then sitting down to the meal so I think whether the meal comes from the microwave or or from the oven or from you know brought in the actual the idea that you sit around the table and talk.

13:02My memories of my, people always ask me as a chef, you know, what did my mother cook? And she was a good, she was a simple cook, but she was a teacher so she would come back from work. But what I remember is a conversation. I remember the idea that we got around, we had talk around the table. You know, politics or the day, what you did during the day and the time to do that. Did you go out to restaurants with your parents? Would it be special occasion restaurants or would you go out? I mean, my mum and dad used to love it. You know, on a Friday night, it was probably the treat to go to the local Indian restaurant.

13:36You know, my mum and dad loved Indian food. They loved Chinese food. And we travelled quite a lot. So we was always very lucky to go on nice holidays and experience different kinds of foods. You know, we go to Spain most summers. My parents had a house in Spain. So we were lucky enough to be able to go there and have, you know, a foreign holiday every year. we go to Cyprus we were lucky enough to go to America a couple of times actually we laughed a lot and we had some great experiences together and it's nice now that I can do that with my parents yeah you know me and the kids and David love to take my mom and dad out you know it's it's a real treat family time is is so so important something that we cherish I was quite touched when you said that the pleasure that you gave from actually being able to take out your parents because there is that moment aren't you as you're sort of growing up when you realize that you can actually after years and years of them taking care of you that you can take care of them and so is that something that you associate also with taking them out to restaurants and food yeah because as you said you know if you have three children you know it's expensive to go out and eat and to go on holiday and and I think that my parents they were wonderful wonderful parents so now the fact that we can treat them, we can take them on holiday, we can take them to lovely restaurants, really means a lot.

14:59And that's something that me and David really do enjoy. Yeah, with his parents as well? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Both sides are very, very close. Going back into the trajectory of your childhood and teenage years, how old were you when you left home? So I did my GCSE, so I was 16. and I moved to Epsom in Surrey. I wanted to be a dancer and a singer. I wanted to go into musical theatre, actually. And I took a place at Lane Theatre Arts in Epsom in Surrey. So I was nervous about that and I didn't enjoy that part of it. I was always a little bit, I wouldn't say socially awkward, but I was always quite shy when I was a child and as I was growing up.

15:45I loved the dancing and the singing. But again, I never really fitted in that well. I don't think I really knew who I was. It wasn't until I met the Spice Girls and kind of accepted who I was and they brought me out of my shell, if you like, that I really became who I am now. Do you remember what you ate when you were at Epsom? Oh, gosh, yes. I used to eat super noodles. I mean, very, very student style. Super noodles that you put in the microwave. There we go again, the microwave. But yes, when I was at college, I would eat super noodles. I would have Frosties. Remember the cereal? Yeah, sure.

16:25Frosties. Bowls and bowls of Frosties with skimmed milk. And I used to eat those yogurts. You know those Muller-like yogurts? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Where you peel the corner off and you dump a whole load of sugary you-know-what into it. Yes, yes. Yeah, I used to eat a lot of that. But, you know, this was the 90s when I feel that it was sort of rammed down our throats, you know, fat free, fat free, fat free. So we used to eat a lot of fat free food without realizing how much sugar we were eating. And I think that that probably didn't help my skin back in the day. You know, there was so much attention on eating fat free.

17:03And now what we know is the complete opposite, actually. I mean, my diet now consists of a lot of healthy fats. I mean, numerous avocados, for example, and seeds and nuts. And now we know that fats are good, good fats. But back in the day, we were terrified of them. It's crazy. And like I said, I think that that probably really didn't help my skin as I was growing up. But we didn't realize it then.

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19:04And when you joined the Spice Girls, what was food like there? Well, you know, I mean, it was so much fun. But again, you know, we lived in a house together and we ate like students. You know, I think I was probably still on the Frosties and the Super Noodles and all those kinds of things, sharing the food and fighting over the food that was in the fridge, like all kinds of students do. When I interviewed Paul McCartney last week, he was describing that, well, it's a very touching story about going with John Lennon to Paris the first time they ever had a glass of wine because he grew up in Liverpool and never had had wine.

19:38But he said that there was a point when George Martin took them to a restaurant called The Etoile in London, which was a kind of upmarket fancy French restaurant. And then he knew what good food and good wine was. Was there a moment when you were, as a measure of your success, when you realised what food could be? Oh, gosh, absolutely. when we signed our record deal with virgin records they took us to lovely restaurants and i remember actually when we signed our record deal you know they opened a bottle of cristal champagne and again this was the 90s and it was like wow that champagne costs how much i mean this was just insanity but so much fun and not something that any of us had experienced and i was the posh one and I came from a lovely family, it wasn't as posh as people thought.

20:31I'd never had anything like that in my life. And it was incredibly luxurious. And we were going to wonderful restaurants and eating wonderful food. An experience that I'll never forget, not just in England, but we travelled all around the world. We were selling records in America, in Japan. We spent time in China. We travelled the whole world. and I feel so blessed that I visited the most incredible restaurants in the world. Would you eat before a show or would you eat after? It's again a question I ask people about actors. Do you eat before them if you're doing a matinee? Would you have lunch before breakfast?

21:11Was there discipline and rigor to the way you ate and performed? I mean, not with us. But then, you know, we kind of just did our own thing, Ruthie. I mean, I remember once they introduced us to a choreographer and we were like, what do you mean? You're going to tell us what to do. We're just going to get on stage and we're just going to jiggle around and we're just going to do our own thing. So, you know, yeah, we ate before the show. We ate during the show and we ate after the show. You ate during the show. That's really impressive. In the middle of quick changes, you know. I mean, Melanie C was the most disciplined for sure.

21:51But not so much. I'm much more disciplined now than I was then. You know, I was 20 years old and we were on the road and we were having fun, you know, and I was so much more naive than I am now. Naive and just ready to just, as you say, have fun and not be held back by any, you know. But also with a huge rigor. I mean, to put on those shows, you were not a 20-year-old just, you know, having fun. You were working, a lot of work. we were working yeah we were we were working really we were working really really hard and we did have a lot of fun we did and then in the trajectory again of food and work and discipline and rigor you started a business a business of fashion and fashion and food and employing people is something major, isn't it?

22:49Did you find the eating and the food and the discipline and the rigor of being an entertainer, did that also go into being a businesswoman, do you think? Yeah, you know, at that point then I did start to become more conscious of what I was eating because I knew that I was sort of demanding a lot from myself. And so I was much more disciplined then because, you know, like I said, I'd go into the stadium in a pencil skirt and blouse and carrying a Birkin. And then I'd walk into the dressing room and put on, you know, a PVC catsuit, if you like. And then I was a Spice Girl at night. And I knew that I was demanding a lot from myself.

23:29And so therefore, I think, you know, I'm a big believer of if it's not just what you wear and what you put on your skin. Obviously, I mean, it's about what you eat and being healthy as well. And when you have a show, when you finish, do you celebrate? Do you go and have food? Do you go out to dinner? Do you have food brought in? Or do you just, everybody kind of is so exhausted. You know, it depends. It depends. I mean, actually, after my last show, I came here, actually, with a few of my team members and my mum and dad and my friend and my sister. So we actually came here to River Cafe to celebrate.

24:06But I'm looking forward to the next show and business getting back on track. When is that going to happen? Well, we're in the process of working on a pre-collection at the moment. And then we'll have our main collection in September. But I'm looking forward to things getting back to normal because I think socialising and eating and drinking with friends and colleagues is so, so important. Missed it, didn't we, Victoria? We've really missed it. Yeah, it's been a hell of a year, right? Yeah. And so we think about, you know, we've talked about food and family and food and love and your parents and exposure to new places and travel.

24:48Food also can give us comfort. And so my last question to you on this very blustery River Cafe day is to ask you, what is your comfort food? And this is where I sound even more boring in the food department. You're not boring in the food department. You're interesting in the food department. Okay, what do I like? You know, I like whole grain toast with salt on it. Good. Is that really boring? No. It's that carby thing, isn't it? It's that carbohydrate that makes you feel comforted. And I love salt. You love salt. I'm a savoury person as opposed to a sweet person. Yeah. I think that sounds like a very good comfort food.

25:33and it's been a very, very lovely conversation. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you. It was great.

25:45Is this for me? Oh, that's nice. What is it? I think it might be vodka tonic. Very nice. Is that what you're having? There we go. I am. Are we both having vodka? Nice. Let's go. Three in the afternoon is my kind of day.