From the Archives: Sarah Jessica Parker on the importance of food in Sex and the City, cooking with her husband, and pork chops.

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0:42Sian Wyn Owen:Hi everyone, welcome to the River Cafe. I can't think of a nicer place to be on a sunny spring morning than here. We have a live audience for this very special episode that features Sarah Jessica Parker, hosted by, of course, Ruthie Rogers. Enjoy the interview and we'll be taking questions later.

1:03The first time that Sarah Jessica Parker and I spoke, the tables were turned. She was on the phone in the River Cafe kitchen and I was on a beach in Mexico. It was really hard to hear her with the noise of pots and pans, the crashing waves of the Pacific Ocean, but her dazzling warmth traveled the 6 ,000 miles. If the phone connection was poor, the friendship connection was instant. Last Sunday, she was in the River Cafe with her family, and I was there with mine. They were sitting on table one just a few feet from the pink wood oven, close to the drama of the kitchen, and there she was, dazzling and warm.

1:44How does all this work, Ruthie? How do you make sure that Matthew's ravioli comes out the same time as my asparagus bagniacowda? This kitchen, she said, feels like the inside of a pinball machine with energy bouncing between the different stations. How do you all have the energy to do both lunch and dinner? Now, I suppose if I went backstage to Plaza Suite, the play that Sarah is doing here with her husband, Matthew Broderick, I would have similar questions. How does this work, Sarah? What do you do if someone forgets their lines? And how do you all have the energy to do a matinee and an evening performance?

2:30Today, we're here, not miles apart, inches apart, two friends together, surrounded by all of you great people. What a connection. Thank you, Richard. Oh, thank you. so here we are did you ever work in a restaurant no but i i say this knowing how hard it is i think i would really love to be a server like i really think that i know i'm worried about this summer yeah she is higher i was we were really admiring your servers today because i said to the girls i was like i'm not sure that i've seen servers move this fast in a long time because sunday is a very busy day for you guys, right? Like, especially so.

3:14Well, that day was a really busy day. And I was saying to somebody, and I said, you know, I don't get to come to the River Cafe very often. I don't live in London. And to myself, to Matthew, it's like a very, it's like a special thing. It's like something you earn or maybe you work toward or you pine about and then you visit it and you're not sure if you made it all up. Like, is it possible that you joined a sort of cult, like a kind of thinking about it? Can it be? And then you come here, my hand to go, it is. And the kitchen really is, it's extraordinary to watch. It is like a pinball machine, but it's like there's such precision about it.

3:59And I love watching the chefs talk to each other quickly in passing or actually come together to speak. I don't know. It's amazing and it's glorious. We were thrilled to be here, really. We were thrilled to have you. When we first did the completely open kitchen, you will remember after the fire, Richard Ayer, who's the director of theater, came in and I said, Richard, isn't this just like theater, watching everyone around? And he said, actually, Ruthie, it isn't. It's like ballet. And he said, because watching people, everybody, you can't shout in an open kitchen. I mean, sometimes raise your voice.

4:37But basically, you're moving around to speak to people about if you need to. Usually, there's a kind of communication. And this time, I had the ravioli with the spinach and the ricotta and those tiny, gorgeous porcini mushrooms that are like a surprise. They don't talk about that as much. And we ordered two. And I was like, my daughter said, do you think we can order another one? And James Wilkie said, can we order another one, which just seems so like gluttonous and decadent and greedy. And then I was like, you know what? Yes. And if anybody says anything, I'll just say we'll take it. Like, I'm sorry that we're being so like animals about this.

5:21But it's a kind of it's good to think of it as this kind of once in a lifetime. It's just incredible. One of the things I think that we all, probably everyone in this room would think about was that in Sex and the City and the way you talk about food, the joy. So many conversations were over food and it was the pleasure of food. It was enjoying food as a way of communicating and being together, which we all feel here. The restaurant is a place where you share food. You're sitting down at the table or at home with your children. Yeah. And so how is that working in Sex and the City and doing, was that from you?

6:00I always loved food scenes. I think it was initially in place, I think, probably from either Candace's original source material or Darren Starr wrote that first coffee shop scene, which I think was just a great meeting place to sort of talk about the themes of each episode, like get the headline out. And then each person, those kind of archetypal characters would share points of view. So we knew where everybody stood and it allowed for controversial conversation or titillating conversation. But I will say this, that Cynthia Nixon, who is a dear friend of mine and we've been working together since we were little girls.

6:44We've known each other since we were 11 or 10. Where did you meet? She was a child actor also, and we would always audition together. She often got the part. But we played siblings when I was very young. We played sisters on records. They used to do records of stories. And we played Laura and Mary Ingalls. And then we played siblings. We played children of Vanessa Redgrave in a movie. But Cynthia and I in those coffee shop scenes, we always eat. Yeah. We always eat, and we always need to, like, re-prop our plate. And then when we finally wrap, they always said to Cynthia, me and Cynthia, do you guys want to take it to go again today?

7:31And we're like, yes, we do. So we really like those scenes, and we very much go back and forth about, they'll send the menu in advance now, now that we all have the phones and things, because they want you to order in advance for props to have everything ready and multiples of it. So we'll go back and forth. What did you order? Are you going to order? I'll order that so you order that and we can share. So the food is, the lines are blurred. It's kind of a joy of food, though, isn't it? Yes, absolutely. It was a way of women eating. Yes. It was something that we are all thinking about, how we combine food.

8:07And I think it's changed. You find that your daughters are different now in terms of their attitude. Yeah, I mean, I never was very disciplined about it. I just wasn't. I think I'm not really good at, like, denying myself something. And I think also I was a dancer for so long and running around, so it was, I was able to be that way. It's certainly not the same now. But I also just, when I had girls, I just was so, I didn't want them to have a relationship with food that was antagonistic or they felt like this was their enemy and that they were going to have to sort of like stake out a position with food.

8:52So when I was growing up, we weren't allowed sugar in the house and we were allowed cookies and we weren't allowed chocolate. And, of course, all we did the minute we moved out was buy Entenmann's cakes and cookies and, you know, and I didn't want that. So in our house, we have cookies, we have cake, we have everything. And I think as a result, you kind of have a healthier relationship. And my daughters will have the figures they have, and hopefully they'll be healthy and they're athletes. And they enjoy food and they have different palates, and you can't make someone like something they don't like or want.

9:23And I hope that they can maintain their affection for the experience and their delight in taste and find their own ways to have that be healthy for them. And your son. He's absolutely mad for food. It was fantastic to meet. All three of them were just, you know, involved in the food and talking about the food and asking questions about food on Sunday. Who knows? Matthew cooks. We both cook every single day. Every day? Every single day. Every day. We probably eat dinner as a family every night. If I'm shooting or he's doing a play, obviously that shifts around. We always have dinner Sunday night.

10:10But one of us, if we're home, cooks every single day. and we love to cook and it's boring to keep saying to each other what are we going to eat what are we going to eat are you going to go to the grocery store am I going to go to the market but it's kind of just what we do yesterday I what did you eat what did you eat last night um last night we went to a restaurant in Chinatown really quickly after the show um but I had made during the day I made lamb stew and Matthew made a white bean soup So we knew we had that. I actually was bringing some to my son, but I like to have it in the fridge for matinee days.

10:53But we cook every night because I don't know why. We never understood. We didn't get ordering in in time, and now we're too old. I don't know how to use a thing. and every now and then we're really beating, we'll say, should we, you know, but I'll still call a restaurant and order it. Send a taxi to pick it up. We pick it up or they deliver it, but we love cooking. I don't know why. Do you think that's part of the drama? Do you think it's part of theater, a part of being an actor that it's separate from what you do? Is it a time? I know that when I was working, I would always come home and everybody would say, sit down and relax.

11:34and I found the most kind of relaxing thing to do was to cook. To be in the kitchen. Yeah. It is. We always wonder about the post-meal part. Like we're always like, wow, now we have to do all this. You know, all the cleaning and stuff. So that kind of punctures some of the kind of helium of it. But I don't know if it's so much relaxing as it's just kind of what we do. It's like what's expected. What else is the family going to do? if we don't get in the kitchen. And in New York, like here in London, you can run out at the last minute. You can make a meal quickly. It's not as, like it doesn't seem as such a big effort in a way.

12:21And often things just taste better than if you're ordering in, in our opinion. We don't think of ourselves highly as like chefs or anything, not like that. But I don't know. So our children always, I will say, they always say like, wow, we're really lucky. We have dinner every night. But when you're in a play, do you eat before the performance or after? I eat a huge meal after. Yeah, so do you go on stage hungry? A little bit. I'll have yogurt, bananas. There's these eggs here that I'm in love with that I go mad for, the ones I want to put in my suitcase, but I know I'm not allowed. They're called Burford.

13:00Oh, Burford, yeah. They have those orange yolks that are just, oh, my God. Oh, my God. So we go through a lot of those. I eat those, bananas. I'll have some lamb stew or barley and some meat. I love your rashers here, your bacon, streaky bacon. And kofta from our local butcher is really nice. I think it's time for our first question from our audience, which Sad is going to read.

13:29Sian Wyn Owen:I used to work at the River Cafe and every night I felt like customers had a different collective character. Saturday night was different from Tuesday night and it was not the same every Saturday night, but it would become a kind of dominant vibe. And then I started working in theatre and in my mind it was exactly the same. And I wondered what your experience of London audiences has been and are they different to American audiences? Well, you've described it so beautifully, whether it's in America, New York City, or here. I always say, what time did they all get together and decide who they were going to be tonight?

14:07It's a conspiracy that they work so beautifully together. And it is a range. And a Saturday night can be boisterous and civilized or boisterous and out of control and sort of behaving, I'm going to say poorly in quotes, but not really, but just more talkative. But generally speaking, the audiences here have been really, really lovely and very hospitable. And we weren't sure because this is a very American play by a real American playwright writing about kind of cultural familiarity to Americans, especially New Yorkers. But they've been absolutely wonderful. I think they've proven to be really great listeners, like sincerely great listeners.

14:52But they do seem to have psychically agreed upon something, and I don't understand it. Like, these people probably couldn't agree about anything else if you remove them from the theater, like, as a whole. Maybe they could. I don't know. But it is unique. I think that is in a restaurant, don't you think, that we can sense. You can sort of cook the same food at the same time with the same team. Yeah. You can go home at 10 o 'clock and think, I'm a failure. You know, this is a dead end. Really? You really? Or you think this was one of the greatest nights of my life. Yeah. It's just so hard to. It is.

15:28And it's, I think the human part of all of this is the thing that's just hard to pin down. Like you can't do the same show. You have a good show and you're trying to sort of always mimic that. Or in the kitchen you'll have a great, and you're always trying to, but it is human. So it's never going to be the same. It's never going to last as long. The pause isn't going to get a laugh or maybe it will. And I think that's what makes it so exciting for a diner or hopefully for an audience is they are very much a part of it. They are a significant 50 % of the relationship is the diner to your chefs and your servers and you and us with our audience, our playwright, our words, our director, and this audience.

16:20It's like we have to, they have to be our partner for the night. And they show that in various ways.

16:32Did you know the River Cafe has a shop? It's full of our favorite foods and designs. We have cookbooks, linen napkins, kitchenware, tote bags with our signatures, glasses from Venice, chocolates from Turin. You can find us right next door to the River Cafe in London or online at shoptherivercafe.co.uk.

17:19so sarah you've just made punterrell father romana with sean there is something to me about punterrell salad that it really it blows my mind and it's it's very hard to get in new york for anybody who lives in new york punterrell is like contraband like apparently it's not allowed and when it is, you have like four days to enjoy it. And to have it here sort of like at your whim, to me, is such decadence.

17:53Sian Wyn Owen:This is a clinture roll. I've never seen it in its natural state. I think this might even be smaller because we were in Turin last week, weren't we, Ruthie? And they were huge, massive heads of it. It's actually a jacoria. you know it's like a gecoria plant and so you can either use the outside leaves and just chop them up and boil them as a vegetable oh really and then this is like the bulb in the middle oh wow yeah this is actually the bulb of the whole plant oh my god inside it is these things like fingers so what you generally do is just well you can cut them off or pull them off do you have to soak them or anything yeah the soak it's all in the soaking right this goes in iced water and it goes in ice water for about an hour and then it turns into, hang on, bear with me, Kola.

18:42Sian Wyn Owen:No, you're okay. Oh, yeah, here. It's going to go all crunchy like this and it crisps up. Ah, I see, I see, I see. So once you've cut it, just put it in ice water. So the dressing, I'll make the dressing for one. Is that garlic? Yeah, I'll put a tiny bit. That's whatever you want. Don't, don't, don't change anything on my account. What is that beautiful? That's chili. Oh, it's chili. Ah, gorgeous. Tiny bit of chili, like a tiny bit. And then these anchovies are really... Those anchovies are so beautiful. A bit more pepper in. I'll just wash my hands. Probably about that much olive oil. This is actually making...

19:21Sian Wyn Owen:It's going to be super well-dressed. Oh, my God, it's gorgeous. Yeah, this is just your dressing. Oh, it's so gorgeous. And it is literally as simple as it is. Now, how dry? Did I get them dry enough in your estimation? Yeah. But, I mean, this is as much anchovies you like, as much vinegar as you like, really.

19:42so sarah read the recipe read it should i just tell you that it's absolutely divine and it was on sunday um two heads of puntarell am i saying it correctly puntarell you're saying perfectly five salted anchovies cleaned and your wonderful chef used spanish anchovies um two tablespoons of red wine vinegar one garlic clove chopped and then she did this gorgeous thing with her knife where she sort of smeared it. She hit Sean, who's right there. Sean, I'm sorry, Sean. She sort of took her knife and mashed it and made it a wonderful kind of misery. One garlic trough chopped, as I've said, two dried chilies, one teaspoon of black pepper, four tablespoons of extra virgin olive oil.

20:26And then to prepare the punterrel, fill a bowl with ice-cold water, adding a few ice cubes. Pull the hollow buds from the punterelle heads, I guess once they're out of that and nice and clean and crisp. Slice the buds very thinly lengthwise and place in the water to crisp until they curl up. This will take about an hour. Add the garlic to the anchovies with the crumbled chilies and the pepper. Add the olive oil. Spin dry the punterelle and place in a bowl and mix with the anchovy sauce. Simple. Perfection. Perfection. I'm curious about when you first had Punturell. Did I have Punturell in Cincinnati?

21:06In Cincinnati? No. Well, I moved to New York when I was a very little girl, but we can talk about the vegetables that were available in Cincinnati. But the first time we had it, there was a wonderful little restaurant that didn't last very long, and it was on McDougal and I can't remember the cross street right off of 6th Avenue. and it was on the menu and I just, Matthew and I actually just read the ingredients or the description and we thought, well, of course, we'll try it. And it was absolutely beautiful. And so then we sort of like, we're chasing it, I guess a wee bit like truffles, like waiting for that moment, you know?

21:48Yeah. That is Italian food. You have it, then you say goodbye and say hello. That's what makes it so special. Yeah. Yeah. But going back to Cincinnati, tell us about eight children? I'm one of eight, yes. And in Cincinnati, we, at that point, we had only six. My mother was pregnant with the baby girl when we moved to New York City. We moved to New York City on January 1st of 1977. So I've lived there most of my life. My real father is from Brooklyn, born and raised. So we spent some time before that in Brooklyn visiting and visiting my grandparents on, on my father's side. Um, but food was for a lot of my siblings.

22:33We, um, think and talk and share feelings, thoughts, experiences with food. I would say in some way, it dominates our relationship. Like it's the, it's the thing that we, I would say maybe with books as well but food probably even more so and I we all have a different relationship with it some of us cook some of us don't some of us have money to explore restaurants that would be more rarefied and some don't but food is and always has been in my memory this destination and I always want to have something I've never had, always. But did your mother, did she cook? What were mealtimes like? She cooked.

23:24We had dinner every single night. All of you, all seven or six of you around? Eventually all eight. My mother would probably say that she really didn't care. She didn't enjoy cooking. She didn't come from a family that enjoyed food. And I think with eight kids, it was work. versus joyful. But simultaneously, she loved food. And she, as a young woman, went off to New York City as an employee of Procter & Gamble, which is a big company in Cincinnati, Ohio, you know, like a lot of girls straight out of college, got a job at Procter & Gamble and was sent to New York to be a salesperson. And her first stop was always Chinatown, always Chinatown.

24:09She loved Chinatown. She loved Chinese food. She loved anything that was different. And there was a place. This would be in the 60s. This would be in the 50s. 50s. Yeah, late 50s, mid to late 50s. And there was a place called Dave's Luncheonette that was a very famous place. You just stopped by and had an egg cream after having Chinese food. And so she, of course, she grew up reading The New Yorker. The librarians from the time she was a little girl would save her, The Weekly New Yorker. So she would read about food and she would read about Chinatown and she would read about places in the outer boroughs.

24:44And so for her, food was this this thing that was part of another life that she hoped to give all of us. And so even though she didn't like cooking and she cooked, you know, three meals a day, we all helped with breakfast, lunch and breakfast and dinner, lunch in the summers. Did your mother work? Did she manage to feed seven or eight children every day and work? She was a school teacher up until a few months after I was born, and then I think that was her last year. She taught second grade. At the time, we lived in a very little city in southeastern Ohio. This was before Cincinnati. It was in the foothills of Appalachia, actually.

25:28And so she taught second grade, but her students could be anywhere from 7 to 14 years old, depending upon how much time they've been afforded to be in school. And so she stopped teaching for many, many years and just, not just, she was a mother, which it consumed all her time. And then she started her own preschool for many, many years. She had her own school in New Jersey. I was a sort of Montessori. She's a progressive educator. And she retired from that about 10 years ago. And she just came to London to visit. My father passed away a year ago, so she's newly. Was there anybody helping her? Did your father ever go, your stepfather ever go in the kitchen?

26:16Everybody helped. Everybody. It was our jobs to be helpful. So you come home from school, do your homework, and then help get the dinner. Yes. Well, we came home from school. We did some homework. Sort of. And then we had ballet classes. And so when we'd come home from ballet, then we'd all jump in and help in the kitchen. We all had jobs before and after dinner that wasn't necessarily connected to cooking. It was cleaning, putting things away, sweeping, loading the dishwasher, unloading the dishwasher, helping with laundry. Yeah. Yeah. but even though it was labor we all came out of that house for the most part really loving food and willing to try anything and if I travel sometimes I say I'm only gonna try like I'll take a job I think well I'm really taking this just so I can go eat this and you know if you are on a holiday and you go trying to find restaurants and I do endless months of research Like where, where, where, where, where?