Governor Phil Murphy & First Lady Tammy Murphy

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1:00at washablesofas.com. Authors are subject to change, and certain restrictions may apply. You're listening to Ruthie's Table 4 in partnership with Montclair. If you're in politics, being outgoing, engaging, and caring is part of the job. And these are words often used to describe the governor of New Jersey, Phil Murphy, and First Lady, Tammy Murphy. But having been close to Phil and Tammy for as long as I have, I know this is truly who they are. In 2008, Phil was the finance chair for the Democratic National Committee, and as Americans abroad, we supported the presidential campaign for Barack Obama.

1:39Phil and Tammy worked day and night traveling to London so often, we thought they lived there. Our conversations, then, were always about society and politics, the sense of public service that runs so deeply in them. Their eyes, though, really lit up when we discussed their four children. Today, we're having this conversation in the governor's office in New Jersey, the state he is deeply committed to, proud of, and loves. And these are actually the very same words I would use to describe how I feel about Phil and Tammy Murphy, committed, proud, two people I love. Very special. That is so nice.

2:17Thank you. That's true. So the recipe that you chose was the chocolate nemesis. I have to say it has been taken once by Ralph Fiennes. No pressure. But we would love to do it again and love you to read it. One of you could read the ingredients and one the method, or you can both read together, however you want to divide it up. How about if I read the ingredients? The best part. That's why I picked Chocolate Nemesis. But importantly, Chocolate Nemesis, the best chocolate cake ever. Yes. Do you agree? 100%. Are you a chocolate lover? Not as much as Mrs. Murphy. Yeah, Mrs. Murphy. She's insane. So it serves 10 to 12.

2:59Is that a pound and a half? Yes, that is. Of bitter chocolate in small pieces. Ten eggs. Ten eggs. Well, it's a big cake. It serves a lot of people. It's a big cake. One pound of sugar and one pound of unsalted butter. Simple. Over to you, Tammy. Simple and all the ingredients that I love to eat. Okay. So preheat the oven to 325 degrees Fahrenheit. Line a 12-by-2-inch cake tin with wax paper, then grease and flour it. Beat the eggs with a third of the sugar until the volume quadruples. This will take at least 10 minutes. Heat the remaining sugar in a small pan with 8 fluid ounces of water until the sugar has dissolved to a syrup.

3:46Add the chocolate and butter. Stir. then pour the syrup to the eggs and continue to beat until combined. Pour into the cake tin and place in a bain-marie of hot water. Bake in 30 minutes or until set. Test by placing the flat of your hand gently on the surface. Delicious, served with creme fraiche. Oh, that's so good. All the things we can't eat. No, well you can. So tell me about the Nemesis. Why did you choose it? Just because it has almost all of the taboo items I love. A pound of butter, you know, 10 eggs, a pound of sugar, and of course chocolate. Okay, so I have to interject. When Tammy was a child, before we met, would sneak into her parents' refrigerator, pull out bars of butter and eat the butter straight up.

4:42There were teeth marks in all the butter and it was always me. That's amazing. I love butter, particularly salty butter. Oh, you like it salted? I like it salted. Good butter in New Jersey? Do they make butter here? We actually, we are the Garden State. So we actually do have some incredible farms here. We have some regenerative farming that goes on. And in fact, we always try and find a gift that's typical in New Jersey to send to all of our friends for the holidays. Also, this is in a different lane, but we've got an exploding winery, distillery, breweries industry here. What is the wine like?

5:16Wine is good. I bet. Surprisingly good. When you first hear wine from New Jersey, people sort of say, wait a minute, that doesn't sound right. But very, very good, stands up well, good value for money. There's one wine that there was a blind taste test in Chicago. Correct. Just before something called the Governor's Cup where you give out these awards for wine. What is the Governor's Cup? It's where the governor. Basically best wine through blind testing. We do it at the Governor's Mansion. It's very cool. We do it for wine and beer, right? Craft beer? Yeah, the Governor's Cup is wine. I forget what we call the craft beer.

5:52It's also for, not spirits, but liqueurs. Liqueurs, yep. But in a blind taste testing in Chicago, one of the wines in New Jersey beat out every other wine, French wines, Californian wines. So that was a big deal. I'd love to try that. Is there a part of the state where the grapes grow? Is it like Napo, where you have a region? Yeah, it is interesting. We are the fourth smallest state in the country geographically. We're the 11th largest population, so we are far and away the most densely populated state. So space is a challenge in New Jersey. It turns out the wineries are located largely in rural areas, but really up and down the state.

6:37When we first got into office, at least I thought they were all in the southern part of the state. It turns out they're up and down, but obviously in rural settings. What a great state. Someone told me yesterday, because I've been studying New Jersey. I love that. And to talk about densely populated and also has the most diversity? It does. And that's a – well, we could start talking about food right there, because if you have a diverse population, you have diverse food. Tell me about, you know, the different people who live here from different cultures, and how that is expressed in their food and restaurants.

7:16How about if I start with the cultures and you add in the restaurants? We are, by many measures, the most diverse American state. We have one of the top South Asian populations, so Indian and Pakistani in particular. The Latino populations, we're in the top three of any of the subcategories, Colombian, Ecuadorian, Mexican, et cetera. booming Korean population and Asian population generally. And then you've got the populations that have been here for a long time, the Irish, the Germans, the Poles. Italians. The Italians, without question. And then, to your very fair point, big Arab community. So one of the largest Arab communities in the United States, one of the biggest and most consequential African-American populations.

8:05populations, and all of that has huge impact on the state in so many respects, but certainly, per our discussion, food. Yeah, how would you think of the influence of food? Well, I think one of the things about all of the different cultures being here is that because we're so small, you can go to pockets and find incredible restaurants and cantinas and the very typical food of a different culture. So we talk all the time about the fact that we have some of the deepest benches where people are living right on top of each other, where you have no choice but to experience someone else's culture and cuisine.

8:48In New Jersey, though, the corn, the tomatoes, the blueberries, the raspberries, the cranberry bogs. I mean, we have the best food you can find, and the summers here are amazing with everything that's available. Really exciting. And so you have these farms, you have people, different cultures of eating. Is food an important part of, would you say, the diversity as well? Diners. Lots of diners in New Jersey. Diners. We're going to a diner later on. I know. What do you eat in the diner? What would you find? What are we going to eat? We're going to go to the Topps diner. Yeah, lunch is usually, for me, a Greek salad minus the onions.

9:28But they have everything. I mean, it depends if you're having tail or ham. Or pork roll. Depends on what part of the state. Yeah, it's a good question. But diners are like almost a unique Jersey thing. This is a big Jersey. And somebody told me yesterday I was with, you know, we have a new ambassador, Jane Hartley. Oh, we love Jane. And Ralph. So I was with Ralph last night, and he was saying that the best pizza is from Jersey City. Do you know this place? Well, we know that New Jersey has the best pizzas anywhere and the best bagels. Oh, I didn't know that. And we compete aggressively against New York City and Connecticut for both of those titles.

10:04I like this being a food competition. Phil has this Twitter account for the state, and the state competes in, like, lobs comments out there, like, you know, talking about where certain food groups were created and who has the best pizza. And it's a constant battle going on. Pizza's a good deal. Yeah, no, it's fine. Yeah, last night they were really into the – they have a pizza club. You know, Ralph and a few people who were at this dinner was talking about they go out every – once a month to find the best pizza in New York. I love that. So they were very impressed by Jersey City pizza. That's good enough.

10:34So that's good. So going back to the beginning and talking about you raiding your parents' fridge for the butter, what was it like growing up in your house food-wise? Well, first of all, you may or may not remember my mother was British. She was an excellent cook when she chose to be. She also had an incredible sweet tooth. So we always had lots of sweets around for sure. But, you know, I think back about those days. I'm the youngest of five. And when everyone used to go away, you know, being the youngest, people were gone. They were gone at college, wherever they were. And so a major period of my life, I spent having the highlight of the week being to go to the grocery store with my mother and go to the frozen food section and pick out my TV dinner.

11:20TV dinners for each night. So it would be, you know, for the week. We would go and pick out the TV dinners because we were— But you said she was a good cook. She was an excellent cook when she chose to, but it was so easy. And also when we go from cooking for seven to cooking for two or three, it kind of takes a little bit of the joy out of it. Can we ask, I don't want to take Ruthie's baton here, but can you tell us your favorite TV dinner? Because that animates all of us. No, no, no. So I would come home from school and sit down and eat, this is no joke, probably a box of Pop-Tarts. A box. A box of Pop-Tarts.

11:58And then after I finished my box of Pop-Tarts, several hours later, I would tuck into my TV dinner. And then you tuck into the butter, right? And then the butter for dessert. How does this one survive to be this gorgeous, amazing, healthy person having a... So we hadn't thought about this, even though we've known each other for 37 years and we've been going out for 30. We hadn't had this conversation until earlier today because we said, what are we going to say to Ruthie about food? We had a remarkably similar upbringing on the food front. I was the youngest of four. Did you have two TV dinners?

12:24Not TV dinners, but Chef Boyardee in a can. Yeah, yeah. How many were you? I'm youngest of four. And similar to Tam, older siblings were significantly older. So for most of my formative years, it was me and my mom and dad. But on the flip side of that, I don't know if you agree with this, it made, as we grew up and grew older, our appreciation for really good food, River Cafe, the Great Italian. Because I think of you as great eaters. Yeah, we are, but I think it because of our own. Well, could either go the other way? But also, did either or both of your mothers work? Did they have jobs to do during the day?

13:05Mine did. Your mom. My mom helped my father in his business, but she was in the garden all day long. Oh, so you had a garden? She would be in the garden. Yes. Oh, vegetables or flowers? Mostly flowers. Flowers. Mostly flowers, but she would work in the garden. By the way, I don't want to misstate my mother was an excellent cook, but she had to decide that she wanted to do it. Fair enough. What did she cook when she cooked? She used to cook literally a crown roast she'd cook. She'd cook burgers. She'd cook chili. She'd cook, you know, white fish. I mean, anything, anything and everything. Sweets?

13:41Lots of sweets, lots of cheesecakes, lots of pastries. She used to make a lot of cookies. And a lot of her recipes have been handed down, so we all still have them. Do you have a book, a little book? I do. So many people, you know, I've interviewed now something like, I don't know, I think we're on 100th episode. Probably this is 104. But so many people do talk about the handed down recipe book, but they have it. And the other thing that I've noticed a lot is that people very often talk about their grandmothers, almost more than their mothers. Interesting. And did you, well, before we go to grandmothers, what was your family like?

14:19Similar to Tammy's. Similar to Tammy's. And again, I think you started to say this, and I think you're absolutely right. And unlike Tammy's mom, there wasn't a really outstanding cook in our family. My dad, actually, was probably the closest. And he was more of a short, as he called himself, a short order cook. What was his career? What did he do? Was his job? Oh, he did a whole bunch of things. He didn't get out of high school, so he did a whole. He was a paid pallbearer. He worked in a warehouse. He ran a liquor store. We're Murphy's, after all. We have to drop the liquor in there. So he did a bunch of things over the years.

14:51But I think when you have that sort of relationship to food, this is one guy's opinion growing up, you go one of two ways when you grow up. You sort of stay in that lane or you start tasting really good food and you explode and just welcome everything. And I think we've all, as you know, we've lived around the world. Tammy lived in London. We lived together in Germany, in Asia. now in the most diverse state in America, once we cross the Rubicon into sort of seeing and tasting and feeling what really good food was, we never look back. And Tammy's a great cook, really great cook. I can see. I was so flattered because I came in, and this is audio, so it's not visual, but if it was visual, I would show the cookbook that you brought in with the recipe for the Nemesis with little tabs through the book, which a well-worn cookbook is.

15:49It's a treasure, really. It's very nice for me to see that. It meant a lot. Well, I wanted to bring it and show it to you. That's her favorite. It's one of my coveted. That's her favorite. Very, very nice. But when you were growing up, did you have meals as a family together? Would you sit down? We had very few because I was so young relative to my siblings. And my dad and mom worked different schedules. So I, more often than not, had dinner. A friend would come over and my mom would cook something. or one of my closest friends was an Italian first-generation dad and an Italian-American wife, and they were really good cooks.

16:29So I would try to get the Sammy Ciccolonis as often as I could because I knew I'd eat well. What would you eat there? Do you remember? Yeah, mostly pasta, homemade pasta and homemade sauces. They were first-generation Italians? The dad was, and the mom was Italian-American. Really, really good. Do you remember the pastas? I remember bolognese was the one sauce that jumps out in my memory. Really good. And I think it was largely spaghetti. How old were you? This was through high school. So this is middle school and high school. So 17 or 18, from probably 9 or 10 up through there. When you had all your, when your siblings came home, was that, then that would be an occasion for doing?

17:12Feasts. Okay, so what would your mom make? She would make, there would be, the refrigerator would be filled. So there would be, you know, everybody had kind of their own options as to what they could go for. But she used to make whatever the favorite food is for whoever was going to appear. And conversation a big part of the meal? Was there a lot of talk? Yes. Yes. And you've got, at least your sister Robin continues to be an outstanding cook, right? And Susan was a great cook. And your late sister Susan. And so when I got involved in Tammy's family, so this is now 30 years ago, 1994. We met in 87, didn't go out on a date until 94.

17:53I still don't understand that, but that's for another podcast. But when I got in the family, your siblings really were picking up the mantle in terms of hosting Thanksgiving or Christmas. Holidays, religious holidays. Did you have religious holidays? Were you both your parents? My father was Jewish, and my mother was Church of England. So we used to celebrate some of each. We were kind of the hodgepodge. So we would go over and spend Friday night dinners with my father's family. Grandmother then. Grandmother. And I was thinking about when you just said this. And I remember going in, all you could smell was parsley.

18:31Parsley. Parsley. She'd be making matzo ball soup and all those great yummy tastes. But we used to celebrate it all. You know, Christmas pudding for Christmas. I mean, we were all messed up. By the way, as governor, since day one and as ambassador before that from day one, we host a Passover Seder every year. Do you? We do. And so that's a special evening. We have Iftar dinners for Ramadan. We have Christmas-related, and there's food and all of the above. We've got Hispanic Heritage Month. We'll have a huge Hispanic-Latino food spread. It's fun. And because we are in this state and because we want to bring people together all the time, we will not just invite Jewish people to the Seder.

19:22We will not just invite Hispanic people if we're celebrating Spanish history or Spanish Heritage Month. So we always try and mix it up and invite everyone in. And it's fun because people have never tasted different foods in many instances. So it's great. The Seder is the one that sticks out because we actually sit around a table. The other one's a big receptionist. Probably 36 to 38 of us at one table. It's a big, kind of a grand table. Reminds us of the table that we had when we were in Berlin as ambassador. And we deliberately, to Tammy's points, that table will be filled with, obviously, Jews, Christians, Muslims.

19:58We'll have Hindu representation. Sick. I mean, we'll have a, and invariably the reaction is, hey, we do something similar in our religion, or we eat something similar, and it's remarkable how people walk away saying, you know, we're actually a lot more like each other after all. Well, that's also, that night is very special because we always have someone who leads the Seder. Yeah. And you start explaining what the meaning is of the different foods that are on the table, so it's all centered around food. Ruthie, you should come to one of these. I would love to come. Yeah, yeah, let's get you back.

20:31Food and religion, food and tradition. I was in Mexico recently, and the night before I left, I went to some friend's house, and they have, I'm embarrassed to say I don't know the Mexican holiday, but there is a holiday after Christmas in which it's rather like the French, Pétis Pierre, where you find the little crown, and then you are the queen. But in this one, if you find the crown, then you have to host another dinner a month later. It's all to do with family and tradition and bringing everyone together, which is, and memory, isn't it? Well, where's the crown? Is it in the food? It's in the cake.

21:03There's a cake. There's a circular cake. Yes, okay.

21:11Did you know the River Cafe has a shop? It's full of our favorite foods and designs. We have cookbooks, linen napkins, kitchenware, tote bags with our signatures, glasses from Venice, chocolates from Turin. You can find us right next door to the River Cafe in London or online at shoptherivercafe.co.uk.

21:38Morning, Zoe. Got donuts. Jeff Bridges, why are you still living above our garage? Well, I dig the mattress, and I want to be in a T-Mobile commercial like you. Teach me, Sildana. Oh, no. I'm not really prepared. I couldn't possibly. At T-Mobile, get the new iPhone 17 Pro. on them. It's designed to be the most powerful iPhone yet and has the ultimate pro camera system. Wow. Impressive. Let me try. T-Mobile is the best place to get iPhone 17 Pro because they've got the best network. Nice, Jeffrey. You heard them. T-Mobile is the best place to get the new iPhone 17 Pro on us with eligible trade-in in any condition.

22:18So, what are we having for lunch? Dude, my work here is done.

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23:22That's why over 200 ,000 happy customers have made the switch. Upgrade your space today. Visit washablesofas.com now and bring home a sofa made for life. That's washablesofas.com. Offers are subject to change, and certain restrictions may apply. What about your father's? My dad would probably cook more than my dad. He would do a barbecue type of thing. Yep, more than my mom, rather. How about you? Did your dad ever cook? Barbecue. Dan would do the barbecue. It's interesting, isn't it? have the male thing of barbecue. And do you cook, Governor? Tell them about the barbecue. Tell us about your barbecue.

23:57Ruthie, I don't cook. I hate to let you down. That's a fine answer. We could just stop right there. He does the dishes. That's okay. When we were engaged, I had a, in the backyard, was asked by Tammy to go out and get the, we had a Weber grill to get the Weber, the charcoal fire going. and it wasn't going to my satisfaction, so I picked up the liquid and started spraying it into the embers, and Tammy ran out and reminded me that the fire could have come right back up. And so that was, I think that might have been the last time I barbecued. You know, and I've actually determined that it was actually very intentional on your part because you've never been allowed to go near them.

24:40Never been asked again. That's a good way to do it. But when you left your homes, when you left to go to college, So was that a big change for you in terms of exposure to different foods, or was it mostly living in the dorm and eating in the... For me, it wasn't. The real game changer for me was moving to New York to work. Okay, tell me about that. After getting a master's degree, getting hired to work on Wall Street, living in New York was the game changer. And what was it like, Phil? It was like someone opened a door to a beautiful, new, different reality as it relates to food. Yeah. And you got really into some really special foods.