If You Can't Take the Heat… How Does a Restaurant Handle a Roasting Summer?

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1:09The intense July heat wave this summer transformed London into a sun-baked Mediterranean piazza, deeply shifting how we eat and what we do and how we move together. What a summer, what a time. I'm here today right now with Sean Owen, Executive Chef of the River Cafe. And we thought as our last episode from Ruthie's Table 4, we would talk about what the experience was like, how we cooked, how we ate, how we worked, the customers who came, and also how this might affect all of you when you're cooking at home in the heat. So do you have any idea how hot it was this summer? outside or in the kitchen I read the other day that there was most days you know very often it was 35 degrees you know outside which is hot I don't know if we're talking centigrade Fahrenheit but I guess it's kind of for Americans it's in the 90s and here 35 is high and then even in the evenings the weather was you know it was hot it was hot at night.

2:17We had that week I don't know was that the week just before Wimbledon where it was really going up into the 40s like crazy and what I was just thinking when you were saying that how they say if you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen but I've realized that chefs are generally quite masochistic it turns out that the the pure masochist in the chef really comes into its own okay what is that masochism that makes somebody want to be a chef do you think that's one of the driving forces I think let me punish myself in my career let me find a job where I have to be in at five in the morning and I have to cook things you know that I can't do but what is that masochism that you call it makes drive someone I think because chefs generally work you know not here necessarily but work you know long hours and you know like shift work it's always a bit of less favorable especially in this den age it's not so you know people don't want to to do the hours.

3:14Yeah. But in the heat, you really do cut the wheat from the chaff. And fortunately, we've employed a great bunch of masochists. So we've got through the heatwave quite well. Including two pregnant women, chef. Yeah, let's talk about that. I think that, I mean, heat or no heat, but to have a summer in which we had Carlotta and Eliza, both pregnant, both giving birth, one in August, one in early September, and working through the heat in July. What did you notice about them? Well, I was really worried with them because I just wanted to make sure that they weren't overdoing it. And they were just such troopers that they would barely rest.

3:54And we had to have this room, this room that we're in, set up as a cool room because River Cafe is a listed building. So we don't have air conditioning in the kitchen. So the temperature in the actual kitchen itself was going way into the 40s. and you know having a seven month pregnant woman chef in the kitchen just feels you know like you have to really take care of them and make sure they're having breaks so we set up this room with air conditioning in it didn't we and kind of very dark did you have a block of ice at one point somebody told me that we brought a big block of ice into it well it's tidy I think go back go back centuries I think we became quite acclimatized to it actually in the end felt it felt like everyone felt like they were in it everyone was in it together and it's quite exciting having this heat in London because we never get such hot sun.

4:42I never complained about it. I thought every time I thought about saying I'm too hot I just remember those days in March when there was no sun and we were worried. So I loved every minute of the heat. I think as the head chef one of the things I was really conscious of was making sure that everyone was hydrating on not just water. Yeah let's talk about that. One of the chefs had read the UN rehydration solution which is something like don't quote me on it but it was some water with it had lemon juice sugar and salt once you're sweating so much and having so much water you're actually dehydrating i think at one point it was very hot and making sure that everyone was looked after was was really important a good excuse to get some ice creams in yeah i went down we thought we got magnums one day i went we used to do that when we were i remember when we were you know there There were 20 of us rather than 150 of us.

5:33We used to go down and get ice creams all the time. Yeah. And then also taking care of the food to make sure that we were paying attention to health and safety, keeping things at the right temperatures. So like what? What were you doing? Well, not really keeping food in any way ambient because ambient, it was too hot. So making sure that everything was being properly refrigerated and recording the temperatures so that making sure the fridges were all at the right temperatures, that was quite stressful like as if you have one fridge break down then you have to move everything out and it was very, you know so we were just paying attention to the finer details to make sure that everyone's looked after and there was also the thing about what they would wear because, you know we were discussing whether they had to wear their chef's white which is a jacket with long sleeves and the trousers and we went through because a chef's uniform is also to do with safety isn't it?

6:26so that you, you know, the jacket is something that if you have boiling water or you spill or you cut, that there is a kind of layer between you and the danger, I suppose. And then when you say, okay, you can wear T-shirts, you know, there's a whole thing of could they wear T-shirts, could they wear shorts. What was your feeling about that? Well, they can wear T-shirts. And they did. They did, and some of them are still wearing T-shirts because it's still quite hot. Chefs in shorts, I find it, I'm not too keen on the look myself. but they can wear what they like. In this hot weather, it was like, if you feel more comfortable in shorts.

6:59I personally just wore a full chef's outfit. You did, yeah. I found it, it was hot either way. You may as well just wear a chef's jacket. At least you look a bit smarter than just sweating through a T-shirt. Yeah, and also, well, also we practically had nobody inside ever, that person. So for me, that's always the change when you're cooking and you know you have two or three hundred people coming in for dinner or lunch and you see them but you know there and it's noisy and it's crowded and you're trying to navigate yourself through the space and then everybody was outside it's the closest we have i think to having a non-open kitchen is when you can imagine you know not seeing the people eating um if you're in a basement kitchen then you'd have no idea what's going on upstairs and here you do but still everybody was outside every single person was outside it's really nice really really nice and what about the menu because you know everybody listening probably knows this by now i'm with these table four we write the menu twice a day so we come in and we write the menu for lunch and then we come in at three and write the menu for dinner so there was a chance to say i'm going to respond to the weather you know yeah i'm not going to make a winter soup of uh beans and parmesan and pasta I might make a cold tomato soup.

8:18I might make a cold, you know, a recipe for the cold minestrone. I think it was a really good excuse to pull out recipes that we haven't done for years. Oh, like what? Well, since, I don't know, when we had such an extended heat wave where you could do food that is so, like, just perfect for boiling hot weather. And even tomatoes, like, even if you have a tomato salad in, I don't know, in a normal weather, you might want to have the tomato at room temperature. But I felt in that 40 degree heat, you actually wanted to have the tomatoes chilled, you know, so that they were actually refreshing when you ate them rather than kind of room temperature felt too warm almost.

8:58So give me an example of a salad with tomatoes that you made where they were sold. Well, so we could do, like, you could do the panzanella, which we rarely do, but that served from the fridge is lovely, isn't it? I love panzanella. Yeah, but there's a real, I think the way we do it or the way you showed me how to make it was that we use all the different varieties of tomatoes. Some of these you don't need to even skin, like this tomato, the Sorrento tomato, or the Vesuvio tomatoes. The skin is so soft that you don't need to skin it. I think that's a waste of time. I think what you do need to take out of the seeds, thermostick, like getting those seeds out of the tomatoes.

9:35The San Mazzano's, you probably want to remove the skin. Yeah. But then we make... So let's name these. This is? That one is the Vesuvio tomato, which I think is from Campania. And it's a lovely soft skin, not too many seeds, I don't think. I like that. Beautiful for a raw tomato salad. That is your San Marzano, your classic DOP San Marzano tomato. And you've got these little datarini down here. Yellow and red. Yeah. And these we often roast. and when we use them, would you peel these when you put them in? In the panzanella we would peel them, I would say. But I think in the olden days we used to make the vinaigrette from just the tomato seeds.

10:23It shows how much we must have made hardly any. But now I tell them to blitz in the RoboCoop a couple of whole tomatoes. I agree. And then sieve that. Yeah, because let's describe what a panzanella is. Because a panzanella is a bread salad. taking the bread that you know you use you know Tuscany is the region of bread and so in the winter it's bread soups in the summer it's bread soups but with tomatoes pop a pomodoro and this wonderful sound panzanella which there's so many variations on yeah the panzanellas that have you know cucumber or no cucumber just tomatoes anchovies olives chilies and always basil so So it is something that you do with your peppers.

11:06And so let's describe a pancinella. Well, so what I did the other day was have a variety of tomatoes skinned. All of them. All of them. What about this lovely one? Look at that. I know. That one, I feel like you just need to eat that as a meal. That was just your whole meal there. It's amazing. To be honest, you don't need anything else. Maybe just a bowl of mozzarella or something like that if you fancy it. Yeah, that tomato is too magnificent to be chopped up. Exactly. Too much. It has to be in its own right. I agree. But the panzanella, we use all the varieties of tomatoes. The bread that would have the crust off and maybe some peppers that have been chargrilled and peeled and cut in strips.

11:52And then we layer up the tomatoes with the bread, the peppers, olives, anchovies, basil. Capers. The vinaigrette, capers. I think the vinegar is important. I find we haven't talked about that, but even scientifically, I think the idea of acid and heat is something that you kind of long for. Refreshing. And so the vinegar in the panzanella I think is important. And do you cut the bread into big pieces? Well, I cut the bread into big slices without the crust and then pour over the tomato vinaigrette and let that sit in the fridge for a couple of hours. and then like mix it up and then serve it from the fridge.

12:37We used to offer the variation where you tear up the bread and put it in the oven and get it a little bit sort of darker. Yeah. So it kind of does get very hard. Yeah. And then it really does absorb the tomato and it becomes kind of, they're just different ways of doing however you feel. But it's kind of a retro. I feel like you don't see it. It's somewhere that you might think, oh, I don't know if I want to eat panza no because you sort of feel like you've seen it. Yeah. but actually I was like let's bring it back yeah let's bring it back to 26 but then one of the things with this this tomato which is like a king isn't it it's amazing I on one of the really hot nights I just um made that tomato vinaigrette yeah um like with tomato juice and vinegar and olive oil salt and pepper tiny bit of crushed garlic basil then I put in the fridge I sliced this sort of tomato super thin and then I just poured over the vinaigrette and let that chill really cold and then serve that with maybe some bataga or some cold longostines.

13:41I think if anybody's listening to this, if anyone should be, and watching, the recipe for Pansanella is in the blue book definitely and did we do one in the 30? I don't know if we've done it later. I don't think we've done it for a while, we've never had hot enough weather. Yeah, but the panzanella is very, and if you're in Tuscany, order it on the menu. And if you're in the River Cafe, we'll probably be doing it some more this summer. Yeah. It's good. So we also did chilled soups, you know, which for me, you don't really think of Italy with, you know, the vichyssoise. Yeah, yeah. The gazpacchos you have, but there is the, you know, there is the Papa Pomodoro.

14:19Yeah. Which is not chilled. I wouldn't call that a chilled soup. And the summer minestrone. Yeah. Yeah, which we've done for years, which is that summer minestrone with pesto. And are there any other ones that we did? We've done the one with tomato and bread and cucumber. Oh, yeah, that's really nice. That's very chilled. That has to be served super cold. I did one on the mega heat wave. Okay. Which you'll... Now I learn. Okay, tell me. Where was I? Yeah, what did you do? So I, it was like one of the, you know, extremely hot, hot nights as well, which is really rare. And so I made like a zucchini, I made like a zucchini cream soup.

15:03So I made it in the style of a vices one. Well, just take it from the very beginning. What did you do? So we made zucchini. We sweated down with a tiny bit of garlic, olive oil, a bit of basil, and just cooked it under a tiny bit of stock. then pureed it like properly pureed it and put a bit of creme fresh with a liquidizer so it's smooth and you know almost the thickness of double of cream I suppose chilled that down to ice cold and then put some basil oil some basil sun regularly on it yeah and it was like I don't I've never done that it was like I put like crema de zucca but served chilled but I think that sometimes you just don't have hot enough weather to eat that kind of yeah very fine cold soup sort of thing was very nice but yesterday we did pepper pomodoro um but i served it on a plate oh what a good idea i mean is this soup why is it on a plate yeah yeah but it was so thick and i just served it at room temperature yeah on a plate with a fork was really nice yeah i think Yeah.

16:09When I'm doing a menu on a hot night, I'm thinking of two things. One, what do people eating here want to eat? Yeah. But there's also what do we want them to cook, you know? Yeah. So are you thinking about if it's a very hot morning and they have to prepare for lunch, you know, it'll be great during service because things will be cold. They won't have to use certain temperatures. But then in the mornings, are you thinking about, well, the fryer? Are we thinking also of certain equipment we won't use because it's too hot to cook? It's funny because say on some of the busier days, you need to have everything cooked so that you can have an easy service.

16:51Yeah. But then you have to do a lot of cooking. And then you have the heat of the ovens on. And then everyone's like, turn the ovens off. Yeah. And try and have a cool service. But even to do like a turban salt, obviously you need the oven to get to the point of doing the cold service. What other things have we done? We've done the cold soups. Desserts. We've done lots of sorbets. Yeah, we did more sorbets. Yeah, peaches. And also peaches marinated in the wine. Oh, yeah. The white peaches at the moment are so good. I just had some for breakfast. I think they're exceptional this year, the white peaches.

17:26When you hit peak season of any fruit or veg, like at the moment we're in peak season for tomatoes, peppers, zucchini, basil, aubergines and it's the right weather for it as well. You feel like yay we're riding the wave aren't we? Because some summers you've got all this amazing stuff coming in from Italy. Yeah you're like I can assure you that summer's somewhere else in the world isn't it? So you can really go all out for that summer repertoire which is which we long for usually every summer, don't we? Ruthie's Table 4 is now a book. Paul McCartney, Michael Caine, Kamala Harris, David Beckham, Tina Fey, Elton John, and many more.

18:05It's full of stories, beautifully designed in a celebration of the way food connects us all. It's available now wherever you buy your books. Ice Cube's Big Three season is heating up and it all comes down to this. The Big Three playoffs are coming to Dallas, Texas. The four best teams in the Big Three battle it out for a spot in the championship. The action starts with the legendary Big Three Celebrity Game. Three games of the most physical, competitive, and non-stop three-on-three action. The game played the way you love. Watch live Saturday on CBS at 12 p.m. Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific, and catch replays Monday on BET.

18:43Presented by iHeart. A yay yay? So we've just grabbed Jake Williams and Molly Langevin, two chefs at the River Cafe, to continue our conversation about this incredible summer. And so as chefs, as we're kind of maybe coming out of it now or maybe still in it today, looking back, what challenges did you think were, you know... I think there's another heat wave tomorrow. Okay. I think it's back again, yeah. Another four days of it. Is this your first summer as a chef that you had to suffer this? Did you ever work in like... Second summer here. Yeah. But I think my first summer dealing with this heat, I don't think it was as bad last year.

19:24No, no. But I definitely think it's been like a fun experience. Do you think that the heat wave, just either working or not working, made London a different city? Definitely. I think friends and family that were complaining and then going to air-conditioned offices, we got to have a bit of superiority, you know, coming in. It's such a physical job and it's another challenge but I think we all like kind of rallied together and helped each other and took time standing in the walk-in to cool down and other things like that and now it's mad that it is like you say teamwork because you you really think that the essence of running the kitchen is all about the team isn't it and how if one person can't well I suppose everyone supports everyone but everyone came in no one really called in sick everyone even if you'd rather be in your home with your air with your fan blowing on you everyone came in and supported each other through it and it just shows what a great team exactly got to wear t-shirts yeah we're just talking about about what you wore so so you know the question of whether it's shorts whether it's t-shirts uh whether we changed and then put on the the chef's jacket so we kept them out what was your feeling about molly about the clothes my feeling was i mean it's it's kind of like two parts but one of them is obviously it's cooler to not have it but if you're working on the grill or the fryer you do actually want the protection of the shirt yeah that's what I was so we kind of adapted to okay what section am I going to be on and can I change halfway and then we were spritzing ourselves with water so um I saw Rodrigo wearing a pair of chef shorts I don't know how he found those no one should ever see that I mean they're the chef's trousers yeah but I think he'd take the legs off.

21:05Yeah, just take the legs off. We put towels in the blast chiller, didn't we? So we could have cold towels around the band of our neck. I was just looking up the weather report. It said that most days was 35. And that even the evenings were very tropical. And we were lucky to have a breeze from the river. And apparently the river in London, the Thames, all the places on the Thames that people could go, people gravitated to the water. It was nice to be around water. when it was that hot. I was saying something funny, you know how sometimes you sort of use a temperature probe to see the inside of like when meat's cooked?

21:41I was working over there and I had a piece of meat in the oven for like for Vitello for like 40 minutes and the temperature probe was hotter in the kitchen than it was inside the piece of meat that had been in the oven. So yeah. The thing is when you the customers came in and they sat outside under the umbrellas in the evening and sort of as, you know, the night drew in. And it looked heavenly outside, absolutely heavenly. And then they'd come into the kitchen to say hello. And they'd be like, oh, it's quite hot in here. How did you feel about the actual menu and the cooking? Were there dishes that you wanted to make or that you felt were...

22:16I thought like a lot of the menu changes were to do with like things that were less hot. So you'd have a couple of room-temperature dishes, which I thought was nice. And that's really good for us because we don't use the stovetops. so that kind of cools us down as well and then you're sort of cooking things ahead of time serving things room temperature which I think is really nice in this kind of heat you know like botello and turban salt I think the first time we put botello on it was still pretty cold and you're thinking I know we cook Italian seasonal food but England doesn't reflect those temperatures very often so it was nice to actually feel like the food we were cooking really fit the weather that's what you were saying isn't it yeah finally we've got the full Italian table and the full Italian weather experience.

22:57Exactly. Simultaneously. You're on holiday. Yeah. What do you like eating in the summer? For me, all of the fish and salt is what I find quite exciting. Tell us how you make the fish and salt. Fish and salt. So it's pretty simple. We get these beautiful fish that come in, and you don't have to do very much to them. So a sea bass or a turbot cut out the gills. But apart from that, we just make a, not a cement, but you mix the salt and the water, pack it in with the fish, cook it and then it preserves the... Are we putting egg whites? I haven't done that for a while. Some people do egg whites. There's two different methods.

23:34I think people listening might be... There's a method of doing the salt and then putting the egg white in and then making that kind of shell. But we do it really mostly just with water and salt. Yeah. I always think you need to get a feel for the fish. I always say that to the chefs. You need to like study the fish before you there's no fish that would like egg whites but you don't want to be like there's a method there's an exact i mean a lot of chefs probe the fish nowadays now but i'm always like let's look at the turbot what temperature is the turbot before it's going in the oven is it straight out of the fridge is it is it more ambient in temperature because that will affect how long you have to put it in the oven for the how hot is the oven how deep have you put salt on like if you put a massive thick crust on or less of a crust all of that impairs or changes how long you're going to cook it for so you need to be aware of all the factors you can't just be like chuck a load of salt on and cook it for 20 minutes it's you've got to be like one with the experience fish yeah and it was the same with the pasta you know like the techniques we're using pasta a month ago suddenly it's drying out so much quicker because it's so much more hot and And a lot of pesto.

24:47We did a lot of pesto. Why don't you describe a dish that you would have if you were coming here for Saturday or Sunday lunch that you would want to start? To start with in the menu? I think the fritto is a great thing to start with. Fritto misto. Fritto misto. Okay, what would be in that? With the different seafoods. I mean, I was doing it yesterday, so there was a lot of them, but you get the polenta, beautiful and crisp, that's been cooked until it's quite firm, and then chilled down and thinly cut. And then when it's fried, it's super crispy and quite a good, kind of a bit more neutral than the rest of the seafood.

25:26So we had yesterday John Dory, finely cut in polenta, clams in the shell still. So they've been steamed and cooked. So he's like, what? And then defried. And then defried. But they look beautiful in the plate. I had it in the...

25:51people were loving it yesterday and then what was the other fish in it yesterday we had mullet yeah long strips of mullet cuttlefish was it okay frying in the heat did you mind using the fryer there were a few services I think where people were like okay no fryer We're not using the fryer tonight. No fruity. It's just adds another couple of degrees that I think would send us over the edge. But apart from that, no, it was fine. I think it is that kind of salty food that you crave when it's so hot. One of the joys of summer, I think, is peppers. Let's talk about peppers. Because I think, like we said, we've got tomatoes, peppers, aubergine, zucchini, basil, melon, summer jorot.

26:37You know, there's a list of the things that you really do identify with Italy, I think. And peppers, at the moment, the peppers are as red as they will go and as yellow as they'll go. And in this hot weather, they really work. We've put them on the grill before service and blackened them, don't we? And then much to the waiter's annoyance, they get to skin them, take the child skins off and take the seeds out and prepare them for us. which is quite a sort of fiddly job, isn't it? And some do it better than others. And then you just get rid of all the charcoal, get rid of all the seeds. And then you can marinate them with some crushed garlic, a tiny bit of crushed garlic, vinegar, olive oil, basil, basil oil, herbs, whatever you have, anchovies, olives, capers.

27:26And then have them with a bruschetta, just a really nice charcoal bruschetta. And the peppers should be served also not in the very hot weather, not ambient i think that's also too murky you want it to be kind of fresh and vinegary and peppery and i think i don't eat a lot of peppers i have to say but in the hot weather i really feel that they just come into their own and on the colors is beautiful i'm really particular with the chefs about which way up to serve the grilled pepper on the plate i don't like serving the pepper the inside the inside up i like the memory i'm constantly saying i don't like the pepper that way up because it just gives me I like the pepper the correct way up yeah and you see the beautiful color I think that's again like one of those things we talked about earlier that doesn't require heating up yeah when it's super hot that's great for us as well because you don't have to use any heating appliance you can just put it straight on the plate it's refreshing for the customer and it keeps us cooler as well yeah so if you're having a barbecue say you're having a barbecue at home when you're getting your fire going yeah just you can put some peppers on the barbecue Or even just on the coals.

28:33I've done that sometimes. Yeah, and to put them on the coals. Get them done. Do you like summer pudding? Yeah. Yeah. I know we have summer pudding now, so I love it. But that is not, we try to Italianate. Summer pudding is such an English dessert. And I remember Rose and I looking at it thinking, well, we love it. It's got everything we love. It's, you know, stale bread, and it's got fruits. And it says, so we put the Val Policella in, you know, and we thought, well, we put Val Policella. in a summer pudding that would make it a bit more Italian. It's my favourite thing. Sometimes at the end of lunch service, they'll have kind of half a scoop left over.

29:10They'll put it off soft food and you'll have just everyone rushing to eat it. Maybe I'll have some today. Yeah, one of the nicest desserts is just the black cherries at the moment. Oh, over ice. Peak season black cherries. And that crunch when you bite into the black cherry and it's really perfect. Okay, well, back to lunch. Thank you. Thank you so much. Good time.

30:00We'll be right back. presented by iHeart. A yay yay! Okay, so here we are with Tom. Hello. We've been talking about the kitchen. And how did you feel as senior manager of the River Cafe, managing your teams that you had? And how was it for you? Tell us about summer heatwave in the River Cafe. Well, you know, I think initially everybody's very excited that it's going to be warm. And, you know, they get to work outside, which is, you know, a real blessing because not many people in this industry where you get to work outside in a beautiful garden by the river. So I think that's always exciting. We sort of bend the rules a little bit.

30:37We say the waiters can wear shorts because it's going to be hot. Of course, they've got to be smart shorts and they've got to look good. But the real challenge is making sure everyone's happy, making sure that the staff are able to work in comfort and making sure that the diners are also going to have a good time. Now, you do a wonderful job of changing the menu, putting on chilled soups or beautiful fish cooked in salt. you know and that makes a big difference but what we do I mean obviously we have private rooms so we have to make sure hang on you know we've got to get some air conditioning in here and make sure that the 20 people in the private room today are not sweltering in there one summer we did amazing thing I think we did it earlier this summer as well we just got these huge lumps of ice and it's such a simple thing and people it became very tactile people came and touched the ice and then would sort of rub it on the back of their necks or on their wrists and um it was a real talking point and it made a big difference to everyone the other great thing we have at the river cafe is ice cream and ice cream just seems to work on a hot day and even if you've had you know three hours running around serving people food you give someone an ice cream and sort of everything is okay everybody feels cool again um but you know you touched on the river and i think that's a great thing you know we have sort of two distinguished areas of outdoor seating we have the terrace which really is where people want to sit most of the year when they sit outside but the smart money is always in the garden when the weather is above 30 degrees because you get this beautiful cooling breeze from the river um and uh yeah so we sort of we make sure that people sit in there as much as possible you know if they're sat on the terrace at the beginning then we'll slide them across to the garden when something frees up um and then breaks just lots of breaks for the staff making sure that they're well hydrated and and looking after themselves but um yeah it was um you know normally i expect things to get a bit quieter when the thermometer reaches 35 degrees and you know who wants to come for lunch but people do people still want to come for lunch they still want to socialize they still want to sit outside in the beautiful garden um but you know it's a real credit to the waiters and the front of house staff and the kitchen well thank you um that you know that we keep going and we keep doing it with smile and grace and charm and that's um you know that's that's what the river cafe has always been about did you find the people eating here their moods were good i think the moods were very good i do too there was a very very nice atmosphere you know and there's another another thing that happens and actually hasn't happened this much this year is normally you get these very very hot days and then suddenly out of nowhere no forecast i have five weather apps on my phone and no forecast prepares me when all of a sudden there's a torrential downpour and we have you know 120 people sat outside in the pouring rain but nobody gets grumpy about that there's almost a sense of release relief excuse me where everybody goes oh my god thank god it's cooled down a little bit and then we have this moment where we have to figure out where everybody's gone yeah what stage are they at in their meal they've just got up from a table at the end of the garden and now sat inside by the wood oven and we've all got to run around and be like this table's moved there this table's moved there but again everybody's very good natured about that and i think it's um you know these things are out of our hands some people don't want to move some people don't want to move their commitment to our fresco is really quite I remember there was a table at 301 this summer and they said you know it's raining and then no we're fine what a move I think it's quite British quality we're staying here we're going to eat outside Tom what about wine because we've been we have to be honest that we have been noticing in the last year or two a change in people's drinking You know, they're still drinking, but they're drinking less.