Jony Ive

0:00Tired of spills and stains on your sofa? Washablesofas.com has your back. Featuring the Anabay collection. The only designer sofa that's machine washable inside and out. where designer quality meets budget-friendly prices. That's right, sofas start at just$699. Enjoy a no-risk experience with pet-friendly, stain-resistant, and changeable slipcovers made with performance fabrics. Experience cloud-like comfort with high-resilience foam that's hypoallergenic and never needs fluffing. The sturdy steel frame ensures longevity, and the modular pieces can be rearranged anytime. Check out washablesofas.com and get up to 60 % off your Anabay sofa, backed by a 30-day satisfaction guarantee.

0:44If you're not absolutely in love, send it back for a full refund. No return shipping or restocking fees. Every penny back. Upgrade now at washablesofas.com. Offers are subject to change, and certain restrictions may apply. You are listening to Ruthie's Table 4 in partnership with Montclair. here at Ruthie's table four we have something exciting to tell you our new substack has just launched you will find all kinds of extra material from the river cafe including recipes our latest news and bonus content from the podcast if you enjoy listening to this series as much as I enjoy talking with our guests visit the river cafe dot substack and subscribe see you there

1:35One of the questions I'm often asked is where and when did you meet Sir Johnny Ive, the person whose designs changed the world? Well, the answer is we met in the White House at a spectacular state dinner when Barack Obama was president and hope was in the air. We were kind of orphans. Neither my husband Richard nor Johnny's wife Heather could come, and we'd both recently lost our best friends and work partners, for him Steve Jobs and for me Rose Gray. It was the beginning of one of the most important friendships I have. Johnny's designs for Apple with Steve Jobs transformed the way we live. On my wrist is the Apple Watch counting my steps checking my heartbeat.

2:18On FaceTime last night I read a bedtime story to my granddaughter. Often the last thing I read is a text from Johnny on my iPhone, asking, how are you, Ruthie? How was your day? But today, my friend is not 5 ,000 miles away, but here in the River Cafe next to me, as close as can be. Ruthie. So how was making the pizzas? What was that like? It was warm. The oven is pink and warm and smell gorgeous. The telegio in it starts to bubble smells um extraordinary but we used to have a um a wood-fired oven an apple very often i would have have the pizza and to see something actually because of the little door you put it in to see something actually being cooked not going behind the door and just then it becomes about time.

3:18But when you actually see it, yeah, I think is particularly special. So would you like to read the recipe for the pizza? I would prefer to eat. Did you not eat any? I'm going to eat it later. So this recipe is for telegio pizza with herbs or herbs. So we need one batch of Tuscan pizza dough, three tablespoons of extra olive oil um 400 grams of telegio cut into pieces and then a bunch of thyme now we didn't have thyme earlier no we so we had what we just had was basil um gorgeous zucchini flowers we had marigolds which if you hold that the the orange of the marigolds hold it up again pink and orange are this beautiful very fizzy combination um so i love the marigolds to look at i haven't eaten them yet um sea salt and some freshly ground pepper i put the sea salt on preheat your oven to 230 degrees divide the dough balls into eight balls and roll each one out into 25 centimeter or 250 millimeter discs if you if you any precision in your ruthie and it was very very thin yeah we do very thin crusty stuff when we were in the south of italy though they were very thick you know they're thick the further south you go which are also really delicious you know but if you're having a meal if you're having dinner and And then you want something.

5:02You wouldn't want a big, thick crust. No, I thought, well, I do love the very thin. And then cover each pizza base with a single layer of telegio. Drizzle with olive oil. Finely scatter with seasonal herbs, such as thyme basil or zucchini flowers. Place the pizza in the oven and cook until the base is crisp at the edges. and the cheese has melted and serve hot. Yeah, pizzas need to be hot. So did you feel hungry? We can get a pizza set up. We can order a pizza. So when you were growing up, you were born where, Johnny? I was born in North London, right where London, up in a place called Chingford.

5:53And it's right where London was halted in its growth by the green belt, which was Epping Forest. So literally the road ended and the forest began. What was the food like in your house? What was the kitchen like? Let's start with the kitchen. We had a big bread mixer that was made by Brown and was probably the most beautiful thing I think we owned. Why was that? Was your mother or father a bread maker? Did they really? Well, I was brought up primarily vegetarian. A lot of bread was made. Most of it wasn't very nice. Actually, I'll tell you, that's something absolutely dreadful. It was made probably weekly, but my parents worked, and so she would make sandwiches for me to take to school on Sunday and then freeze them and then take the sandwich out the night before And it would dethore in time for the next day, just.

7:00Just? Just. So the sandwiches were always chilly, but they were always wet because there was something about tomatoes and lettuce defrosting that I think caused havoc in the sandwich department. But you're describing a woman who worked. And so a woman who had to go to work in the morning and see that her children had something to eat at lunchtime. What did she do? She was a teacher. Oh, what did she do? So she was philosophy. But my grandparents, because both of my parents worked, I was essentially raised by my father's mum and dad. And they were vegetarian and grew or made almost everything that they ate.

7:49In a tiny garden, there was a greenhouse. and digging up potatoes. My favourite, without a doubt, is, you know, harvesting, you know, taking the peas, shelling peas. I've shelled thousands of peas and probably yielded about 10 % that got to the table. And tomatoes. And this is all their garden in Schingford. Yeah. But that's what was odd. it was the difference between something that was 10 minutes ago was growing and to watch on a tiny little... My grandmother had a little electric oven made by a company called Belling. Such a tiny kitchen she had and still some of the most extraordinary dinners and lunches I've ever had.

8:47Do you remember what she made with potatoes? Do you remember how she would cook the potatoes? Yes, absolutely. So they would only be scrubbed and quite gently, boiled, but with mint that she, you know, had also picked, well, no, that I'd picked after digging up the potatoes. and it was as simple as just potatoes and then tomatoes if it was good and I hadn't eaten them all, peas. And your father, what was his career? Well, he trained as a silversmith and a cabinetmaker and then became a teacher and a professor. His specialism was art and design. And my Christmas present would be, he would say, we would go into the workshops during Christmas, which I'm sure was illegal, and we would go in for one day.

9:44And he said, you know, we will make together whatever you want with the one condition that you design it. And to me, he didn't actually say design. What age would you have been? I think I started doing that when I was probably about seven or eight. Yeah, seven or eight. But what was curious, he didn't say design it. He said think about it and explain it to me probably with a drawing. And what a wonderful definition of design. Beautiful explaining it by a drawing. Also what you've described is how a vegetable grows about being in the workshop with your father. It's about process, isn't it? I think it's part of the human condition that we assume everything that is made, everything that grows, is inevitable.

10:37Now, maybe it's necessary because if we're truly startled and full of the joy and celebration of everything around us, we wouldn't get much done, perhaps. But I think probably one of the things that defines people that I love is the simple joy and curiosity about this chair. How did it get here? How was it made? The pizza, seeing this floppy dough change into something rigid and crispy. and I think when you understand process and you celebrate it, the glorious thing is that you end up, I think, connecting to your environment, to the world in a much deeper way. And I think it also brings a humility.

11:36You just realise and I think you become very aware of your small part as part of humanity you know part of our species. So when you left the nurturing and the knowledge of your grandparents being nearby of your mother making that effort to make bread your father taking you into the the workshop and then you went to university when you left that did you create a kind of home for yourself and you met Heather quite soon or did you were so absorbed in working and designing that food became maybe secondary or something you grabbed what was the food like for you? I think food, certainly at art school, it was functional and sadly rather joyless.

12:23And I got married when we were up in Newcastle. We came back and lived in Greenwich for a few years. And you had an apartment? Yeah, we just had a small apartment. But I used to then, I used to work in Shoreditch for tangerine. A small design? It's just a very small design group. But it was near, possibly the best thing about it was it was close to Brick Lane. And I love curry. I mean, the culture of Brick Lane was so interesting. I mean, many of the restaurants didn't have the license to sell alcohol. And so you would typically go and buy alcohol at the, you know, the off license next door and just then go into the restaurant.

13:09but I've had some just extraordinary dinners there. And when you went to San Francisco, it was for me, San Francisco with Alice Walters and with Judy Rogers and now with Quince, with Napa Valley, it's such a food culture or was that also, were you not in a phase where you could actually discover the food? No, there was a culture of eating out which I'd never been part of before and so we would eat out all the time. I mean, Chez Panisse was incredible. The farm to the table, a bit like your grandparents, you know, that you take something from the farm. I moved in 92, so I'd been there for well over 30 years.

14:00Imagine a state-bottled olive oil chosen and bottled for the River Cafe arriving at your door every month. Our subscription is available for 6 or 12 months with each oil chosen personally by our head chefs and varying with each delivery. It's a perfect way to bring some River Cafe flavor into your home or to show someone you really care for them with a gift. Visit our website, shoptherivercafe.co.uk to place your order now.

14:36Let's be real. Life happens. Kids spill. Pets shed. And accidents are inevitable. Find a sofa that can keep up at washablesofas.com. Starting at just$699, our sofas are fully machine washable inside and out. So you can say goodbye to stains and hello to worry-free living. Made with liquid and stain-resistant fabrics. They're kid-proof, pet-friendly, and built for everyday life. Plus, changeable fabric covers let you refresh your sofa whenever you want. Need flexibility? Our modular design lets you rearrange your sofa anytime to fit your space, whether it's a growing family room or a cozy apartment.

15:18Plus, they're earth-friendly and trusted by over 200 ,000 happy customers. It's time to upgrade to a stress-free, mess-proof sofa. Visit washablesofas.com today and save. That's washablesofas.com. Offers are subject to change, and certain restrictions may apply. Parking shouldn't slow you down. ParkWiz gives every driver a shortcut. Book ahead, save up to 50%, and skip the hassle of circling the block. Park smarter, park faster. ParkWiz. Download the ParkWiz app today and save every time you park. I'm joined on the phone now with Mark Newsom, a very close friend of Johnny Ive, a very close friend of mine, to talk to us about Johnny and working with him.

16:01Mark, how did you and Johnny end up working together? Johnny and I started out being friends. You know, we were both designers and we didn't work together originally. Johnny was, you know, had just started working at Apple with Steve Jobs back in, I guess, early to mid-90s. Johnny effectively invited me to come to Apple to help work on the Apple Watch. And that's a particular project that I think is a really fascinating example in terms of how he thinks. Johnny always loved watches and he was always fascinated by watches. And he always said he wanted to do a watch. He wanted to do a watch at Apple.

16:39But we're talking more than a decade before it was even muted as a possibility. And no one could, least of all me, actually, no one could quite get their head around what it was he was thinking. How in the context of Apple would you create a watch? Did the world need a watch? This wasn't long after the iPhone, the iPad had not long been invented. But he had this vision to create a watch. And clearly, he managed to convince everyone, the powers that be at Apple, to proceed with this project. Clearly, it was going to look good. Most likely, it was going to be a success. Although, I guess that wasn't entirely clear at the time.

17:18You know, the idea of bringing back a product which your parents or grandparents would have been very comfortable with, yet, you know, children of that generation simply didn't know or didn't own was stunning. And then all of a sudden people are wearing watches again. It was like reintroducing this whole new thing, which actually wasn't new, that you wear on your wrist. But now I'm amazed. You see them on people on television. You see them all around the world. I mean, it's a device like the iPhone or the iPad that cuts through every conceivable geographical, socioeconomic almost background. So, you know, it's an incredibly accessible thing.

17:56I guess safe to say it's the most produced watch in the history of watches. So that was born out of a kind of a desire that Johnny had that no one else could identify or even see. he's sort of cut from a slightly different cloth from the rest of us, I think. Mark, what do you think is unique about Johnny's approach to design? Most designers really wish they could kind of look into a crystal ball and see the future. Because, you know, what you're doing is creating, you know, ideally you're creating products that people want and maybe even people need. But most importantly, you want to create products that sort of somehow stand the test of time.

18:38And in many ways, it does require being able to look into the future. But clearly, that's a very difficult, almost impossible thing to do, except probably if you're Johnny, because being able to somehow envisage where we'll be in, say, 10 years time and imagine the world around and what it will be like, you know, how it will be different to where we are right now that's where he's really really really clever and you know the Apple watch was a great case in point there are lots of products that he's been involved in designing that I think really clearly demonstrate that.

19:20One of the things I feel particularly fortunate having such a close relationship with Steve I got to grow up in Silicon Valley benefiting from seeing the area through his eyes. Now, he grew up in Silicon Valley. He remembers when the valley was, Johnny, that used to be an orchard of apricot trees. And the way that he understood, though, the valley in relationship to San Francisco, so his sense of the importance of San Francisco was quite beautiful. and you then got a sense of, you know, even though it's 50 miles away, you then also have a sense of, okay, Napa Valley, where you have extraordinary wine and the vineyards up in Napa Valley are really, really beautiful.

20:17What was Steve Jobs, your relationship? You know, I said how we both lost our partners. Steve was so important in your life and I know you've spoken about what it was like as a friend, as a colleague and working every day with him. But can we also talk about what was his relationship to food? Did you two eat together? Did you share meals? And did he care about food? We had lunch together nearly every day. So we would, Monday to Friday, we would either have lunch in the canteen at Apple or we would go out together. And he was sort of vegetarian, maybe pescatarian. I mean, he did love sashimi and he had, I think, an extraordinary palate.

21:04I mean, we would love going for sashimi together. But he, I think we could both eat a tomato and just a tomato with great olive oil and be, could never be happier than that. But in his kitchen, he had a wood-fired oven. At home? Yeah, at home. that he used primarily for pizzas. Would you work over lunch or was it seamless? You just worked and ate and ate and worked. There was no difference. It was all one thing. I think it was all one thing, isn't it? It's when we talk and we exercise and interrogate and wonder about the world and the people around us. And it's that fluency of just it all being one, almost one conversation.

21:54You know, there's a danger that we will talk about things that are easy to measure, you know, characteristics that are easy to measure with a number, because that's a conversation that's inclusive. You know, we will talk about speed or height or weight and people particularly with products will do that. I don't know about what you mean. well i mean if if you're talking about a product and people will be and you have a broad diverse collection of people engineers marketing people designers certain things like well how much does this weigh how fast is this how much is it going to cost these are attributes these are characteristics that you can measure with a number so those are easy conversations and steve and i understood that And we understood that the insidious danger is that you, because they're easy conversations, you make the terrible mistake to think they're important.

22:58And there are many, many really important things that are ignored because there aren't easy measures. When we think about food, we think about health. We think about the health that you've given us for measuring on your watch, from calories, as I said, to our heartbeat. Is that a measure that you think about? I think there's something. I've spent a lot of my life working on tools, and I'm very clear in my mind that design, my practice is applied art, and so it's really making tools. the thing that I think is so extraordinary about food is that of course there is a a functional imperative around food in terms of nourishment but how incredible that it doesn't stop there and when you have a problem that you want to solve or a discussion that you have would you go to a restaurant to do that at a table I frequently yeah and those have become it's very private isn't it Isn't it?

24:06I mean, it's so curious when you're sat at a table, the table is in front of you, but actually it protects your back as well, doesn't it? I mean, you know, remember Charles René McIntosh did those very tall, you know, some of the Art Nouveau equivalent, the chairs with a very high back. and I remember art school and I actually remember visiting the Glasgow School of Art and it's so curious how those tall backs created a space and a volume but what I love about sitting at a table when you're eating there's something about I mean it's very unusual to have a horizontal plane in front of you but when it has food on it's it signals that the world can sort of miss you and you can just be with the you know the the people you're at a table with but it does create i i think a sort of sacred space um in a way that's different from a picnic or eating on a park bench different in so many ways

25:20an open kitchen in the river cafe means we as chefs are able to talk to our guests dining in the restaurant sharing how we cook their food where the ingredients come from as well as hints and advice for cooking the recipes in the books and now we're bringing that same ethos to our podcast a question and answer episode with me and our two executive chefs, Sean Winoen and Joseph Trevelli. All we need is to hear from you about what you would like to know. Send a voice note with your question to questions at rivercafe.co.uk and you might just be our next great guest on Ruthie's Table 4.

26:06Time for a sofa upgrade? Visit washablesofas.com and discover Anabay, where designer style meets budget-friendly prices, with sofas starting at$699. Anabay brings you the ultimate in furniture innovation with a modular design that allows you to rearrange your space effortlessly. Perfect for both small and large spaces, Anabay is the only machine washable sofa inside and out. Say goodbye to stains and messes with liquid and stain-resistant fabrics that make cleaning easy. Liquid simply slides right off. Designed for custom comfort, our high-resilience foam lets you choose between a sink and feel or a supportive memory foam blend.

26:44Plus, our pet-friendly, stain-resistant fabrics ensure your sofa stays beautiful for years. Don't compromise quality for price. Visit washablesofas.com to upgrade your living space today with no risk returns and a 30-day money-back guarantee. Get up to 60 % off plus free shipping and free returns. Shop now at washablesofas.com. Authors are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply. Parking shouldn't slow you down. ParkWiz gives every driver a shortcut. Book ahead, save up to 50%, and skip the hassle of circling the block. Park smarter, park faster. ParkWiz. Download the ParkWiz app today and save every time you park.

27:22When Steve became ill, did the lunches stop? Was that a very different experience of food for you when seeing somebody through their illness and food? They certainly didn't stop. I mean, there was a point when he was too ill. The connection of food and lunchtime and being together. That was still a really important heartbeat. I mean, isn't it funny, even if you're not going to eat much, it's lunchtime. I mean, I think that speaks so clearly to just the importance of stopping and pausing and being with someone. Yeah. You've spent a lot of time in Italy. I've been with you in Italy. We were in Venice together.

28:09We've been in Amalfi together. But you also, we could talk for a moment about Ferrari. Ferrari is from a fantastic region of Italy. Are you in Modena or in Maranello? So in Maranello. Maranello. And what was food like there? I mean, I feel so lucky because I've experienced food to start with in Italy being on vacation. And so you're right. You see, you have a particular attitude and you're in a particular, your consciousness is different, isn't it, when you're on vacation. And I've been fortunate to be able to also enjoy being in Italy working and being in Maranello and going to the restaurant.

28:52that Enzo Ferrari went to. What was that like? It's fabulous. So John Alcan has refurbished and restored. But I love eating in Italy. I really... What do you love about it? That it's important and that the food is so good. Particularly, I love simple. And it's not fussy, is it? I love when it's not fussy, when it's simple. And the basic ingredients are so good. I stayed, actually, I stayed once working with John at Ferrari at a, I guess, a farm. But it was where balsamic vinegar is made. And the hotel, you could not escape the smell of vinegar. But there were these gorgeous rooms with these great wooden vats are where the vinegar was resting.

29:49but that you could go from that to seeing you know the farms that you would drive past on the way into the factory. I would like to ask you about the Royal College of Art because that is education, it's culture, it's young people, it's communication. You've been the Chancellor of the Royal College and that is a huge honour and also someone that's chosen to really do it in a very serious way. What does that mean to you? I mean, one of the most remarkable days of my year is as chancellor, watching hundreds and hundreds of students receive their certificate and their degrees. And I'm so struck by, you know, when you see just one person and you just think that their journey is only theirs and that they fell off a bike and they had to struggle to read.

30:52But you're so aware of how particularly unique everybody's journey is. And then when you see hundreds and hundreds of people in community celebrating an important chapter close, I think that's remarkable. And so we've talked about food as curiosity, exploring different foods, growing food into soil, picking peas. It's also food as comfort. And so what Johnny Ives, Sir Johnny Ives, would be your comfort food? I would say it would be one of your pizzas. It would be peas, just peas. But I quite like, if I'm honest, a chocolate digestive because I don't have them in America. Do you like the milk ones or the plain ones?

31:44See, I know what you're thinking. I know, there are two different types. I know, I quite like the milk ones. The milk one. That's right. Okay, well, I'll give you any time. I'll get you some milk chocolate. No, please don't. I'll go with the pizza. Okay, well, pizza and then a milk chocolate. Thank you, Johnny. Thank you, Ruthie.

32:05Thank you for listening to Ruthie's Table 4 in partnership with Montclair. www.anibay .com Sofa inside and out. Say goodbye to stains and messes with liquid and stain resistant fabrics that make cleaning easy. Liquid simply slides right off. Designed for custom comfort, our high resilience foam lets you choose between a sink and feel or a supportive memory foam blend. Plus, our pet friendly stain resistant fabrics ensure your sofa stays beautiful for years. Don't compromise quality for price. Visit washablesofas.com to upgrade your living space today with no risk returns and a 30-day money-back guarantee.

33:09Get up to 60 % off plus free shipping and free returns. Shop now at washablesofas.com. Authors are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply. Parking shouldn't slow you down. ParkWiz gives every driver a shortcut. Book ahead, save up to 50 % and skip the hassle of circling the block. Park smarter, park faster. ParkWiz. Download the ParkWiz app today and save every time you park. This is an iHeart Podcast. You