Keri Russell & Matthew Rhys

0:00This is an iHeart Podcast. parking shouldn't slow you down park whiz gives every driver a shortcut book ahead save up to 50 and skip the hassle of circling the block park smarter park faster park whiz download the park app today and save every time you park looking out in the river cafe i'm always happy to see couples having a great time but i also know that every table has a story a child who just received a degree, a colleague at work who might be changing jobs, a marriage proposal, or a separation. I met the couple, Kerry Russell and Matthew Reese, when they were playing a couple, Philip and Elizabeth Jennings, in my favorite TV series, The Americans, and I watched their story through thick and thin for six years.

0:51It was therefore a big moment for me, seeing them sitting at a table in the River Cafe. they were with my friend, Ambassador Jane Hartley, who loves Carrie playing a sort of her in The Diplomat. Today, we're here at a home in New York City to talk about all this and more. You're our first couple. We are. Yeah. Shut up. What a fun. This will be like therapy. I know. It's true. It'll be fun that way. No, it's great. Yeah. Therapy through food. Couple therapy by Ruthie Rogers. I have said to you, before we put the mics on, how amazing it is that you came uptown. We love it. Uptown, downtown. Do you like uptown, downtown?

1:34Did you ever think of living uptown? I didn't personally, no. Did you? No, but we took the train up here together and it's just, you feel like, uptown just feels like you're in a movie. In a New York movie, isn't it? I always think when people say, where should I stay in New York? I always think, as an American, I love staying downtown. But then I think if you're coming to New York for the first time, Central Park, the high buildings, the density, the avenues, Park Avenue, it's so New York for that first time. I totally agree. I had that hit again when we came out of the subway. When your borough is so alien to this one, you kind of go, we're in New York.

2:15I know it sounds so stupid. I go, Manhattan brings back that magic again. Or you think of the movies you saw growing up. or you see the park again in a way you haven't seen it and you just go, ah, I'm always kind of falling in love again with this city. It's so romantic. Yeah. You know, seeing everyone dressed in nice clothes. Yeah. Uptown. All over. No, where we live, it's like, you know, we're all in sweatpants taking our kids to school. So what we thought we might do is start with a recipe. And the recipe I understood that you would like to read is a lot to do with sage. Sage and butter are big in our house.

2:54Yeah, we like sage and butter. Yes. In fact, if you could spread butter on a leaf of sage, you'd kind of be already there. We could do that. For me, that's her nirvana. So is that a piece of sage that you've plucked from a plant or that you've bought? Do you grow it? A little bit. We don't. We've tried. Well, with our children, it's like trying to grow something within a family of chimps. Everything is plucked or ripped or torn or destroyed. Before you go, you're constantly going, who did this? Who pulled the sage up? Who took that sage leaf out of the garden? Yes, we were growing this. Yeah. So it never seems to last.

3:31So we do shamefully buy it. We have a great farmer's market by us, which we get a lot of the herbs from. And, yeah, sage and butter is a heady mix. It's a great source of comfort. I love butter. We can talk about butter later. Because I always say that as Italian chefs, we're supposed to. And we do love olive oil. Of course. And that is the ingredient. So when people say, what do you want to have in your cupboard? I would never say a half kilo of Italian butter. I'd usually say a bottle of extra virgin olive oil. But butter is like it is. But I think we should just do a podcast called Butter. I agree.

4:06Tagliatelle with porcini and sage. Am I butchering tagliatelle? I got it right. Spot on. Grazie. With porcini and sage. We begin with. Oh, OK. Is that me? Yes. 350 gram dried tagliatelle. 35 grams of dried porcini mushrooms. Eight fresh sage leaves, finely sliced. Or could be 16. Who knows? 2 ,000 grams of unsalted butter. Oh, sorry, 100 grams of unsalted butter. Two garlic cloves, peeled and crushed. Another family favorite. One dried red chili, crumbled, like us. Four, like me especially, today. Yes. Had a little too much wine last night. It's rough. It's rough. I'm a little fragile. But I'm getting it through.

4:48Yeah. Maybe you should have another glass of wine. Maybe. Probably. The only way. The only way. Four tablespoons double cream. And the zest and juice of one lemon. Do we continue on to Gloria? It would be nice to know how to make it. Just throw it all out. No, no. Then you just say, now, guess how you make it. Now it's your problem. Now, good luck. Expect me to write a book and tell you how to do something? It's really rude. You'd like me to tell you how to live your lives? Yes. Happy hunting. Soak the mushrooms in hot water for 20 minutes. Oh, see, that's why you're magical. Yes, you see? Then drain the porcini, keeping the liquid and roughly chop.

5:24Strain the liquid through a sieve lined with kitchen paper to remove the grit. Melt the butter in a thick-bottomed pan. Add the garlic, sage and chili, and fry gently until the garlic is soft. Add the porcini and stir to combine. Oh, my God, this is so good. This is working already. This is what I need. This is all I need to get through. Now cook for 15 minutes when the porcini is soft. Stir in the cream, lemon zest, and juice and season. Cook the tagliatelle in boiling salted water until al dente, then drain. Add to the sauce, toss well, pour wine, drink and enjoy. Good. And so tell me about cooking.

6:04Do you make tagliatelle? Do you make a lot of pasta with the kids? Well, pasta is the absolute staple of our household. The absolute staple, as I'm sure it is for many people with young children. However, I've been out for some beautiful dinners with Carrie, and she's come home and then made a bowl of pasta with butter and sage. And I, with genuine wonderment, go, where and how? Sometimes you do come home hungry for a meal. Yeah, I love the food when I eat it. And then if we've stayed up, if miraculously I've made it awake beyond 9 p.m., which is difficult for me, by 10.30 I need more food. Did you discover early on that food that you ate affected the way you acted?

6:51So that would you find that if you were doing a scene that you would want to be not full of food or you wanted to eat? And also if you ask, this is a loaded, many questions, directors, they never want to stop food. I just want to start by saying there was one French director, when I worked in France, there was one French director I worked with who is just a true gastron. What's the word I'm looking for? Gourmet. Yeah, he was like, no, sit down for one hour, one hour and a half. We have a nice lunch. And he goes, it's not like America where you get one plate and you put sushi on it and a burger and a salad and French fries and you put a whole mess on one plate.

7:33It's terrible. You get one thing. Yes, and then so we went into this beautiful tent, there's long trestle tables with white linen cloths there's wine on the top I was like this is the first day I was like oh my god where am I and we all sat down and I'm next to the director and I said do we choose is there a menu because no they will come and put it in front of you and this sort of like this sort of yeah this sort of you know duck liver pate put down in front of us and I went but what if you're a vegetarian and he took a second and he just went

8:10Sorry Yes that was my That was a detour Was that the one I mean but normally On a set What happens Well I think We can both Confirm that I mostly eat donuts Donut fiend Yeah She can inhale them Oh you should have Not so much anymore But I When we were doing The Americans We were shooting that here in New York and often in winter outside. At night. And I would inhale donuts. They became your kind of really true comfort and seemingly engine fuel as well. Just like, gah, gah, gah, gah. Yeah, yeah. I'm sure that was really good for my health. Yeah. Can we, as we mentioned it, you know, my obsession with the Americans.

8:56No, really, I have to say, you know, I've loved them all. You know, what people said to Richard, when do you have time to watch so much stuff? Well, yes. But, you know, it wasn't. But we watched a lot. But for me, it is the pinnacle. It just was such, it was about family, it was about marriage, it was about secrecy, it was about loyalty. But I think that there were so many aspects of the Americans that was just stunning and beautiful. And there were mealtimes. It was a domestic setting. There was the times when kids would go next door and eat something. or be at a table. What was your feeling about that?

9:34There was definitely a lot of thought, possibly more by the writers, about when it was meant to be presented as an excess that Philip and Elizabeth might go, or Elizabeth possibly, I don't want to speak on your behalf, might be opposed or repelled by the indulgence of it or the excess of it. There was actually an episode I directed when Martha is being relocated to, you know, one of the characters is being relocated to Moscow for helping the KGB. And it was a very brief moment, but I just put in this moment where she's eating peanut butter on toast and wondering kind of, yes, what her life will be.

10:18And it was kind of one of those things I just kind of planted in as to the, just as the choice that we have in comparison to what may have happened. I mean, the mealtimes were always kind of pandemonium because it was always when the set fell apart. Do you know what I mean? Because you're in that one concentrated area for so long. Everyone goes a little crazy. Everyone is trying to figure out how to eat without eating. Because you shoot, obviously, that scene that is, you know, five minutes. You have to shoot it for six hours because you have to shoot everyone's coverage of it. So, yeah. Hard work.

10:58Yeah. And what about now when you're in The Diplomat? Well, one of the fun things about The Diplomat is the writer who I just, I love so much, Deborah Kahn, who created the show. And she puts it in very specifically. She wants the character to eat, like, really messy. Like, just constantly be, like, shoving, like, food in her face and, like, eat really messy, like a, you know, have no manners and, like, a dude, which I think is really fun. But it's gross, too. because you have to continually eat. I know, I do, I appreciate that I'm a diplomat, you do eat. You do, yeah. We always, I think a lot of actors always talk about those actors who do eat on screen and those who you can see kind of nibbling on cucumber.

11:41And I'm always, I'm always on the side. Are you the eater? I'm always on the side. So I remember Noah Emmerich and I had this one scene in The Americans when we ate pizza and our director at the time said, listen, I really want to see you eat. And we really had to map it out, like the length of the scene, how long you'll chew coverage wise when to take in and we ate he goes i want to see you swallow the pizza i don't want chewing and then we cut away and then spit bucket and we're like okay we'll go for it and i had i was sweating i had so much dough in my stomach at the end i was like i don't i don't feel well i don't feel well at all

12:23Did you know the River Cafe has a shop? It's full of our favorite foods and designs. We have cookbooks, linen napkins, kitchenware, tote bags with our signatures, glasses from Venice, chocolates from Turin. You can find us right next door to the River Cafe in London or online at shoptherivercafe.co.uk.

12:48Parking shouldn't slow you down. ParkWiz gives every driver a shortcut. Book ahead, save up to 50 % and skip the hassle of circling the block. Park smarter, park faster. ParkWiz. Download the ParkWiz app today and save every time you park. Hi there, this is Josh Clark from the Stuff You Should Know podcast. If you've been thinking, man alive, I could go for some good true crime podcast episodes, then have we got good news for you. Stuff You Should Know just released a playlist of 12 of our best true crime episodes of all time. There's a shootout in broad daylight, people using axes in really terrible ways, disappearances, legendary heists, the whole nine yards.

13:26So check out the Stuff You Should Know true crime playlist on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So growing up, and we can figure this out if one of you wants to go first or you can talk to each other about, because I assume we didn't grow up together. I like to tell people we did. Maybe you did. You met in the hospital, little beds next to each other. And that was it. Okay, and that was it. So you sort of started out with milk. But what was it like in your household? My mom wasn't the best cook or anything like that, but what she was great at was, you know, my dad traveled a lot.

14:08What did he do? He was just like a suit for a car company. So he would get in the car and drive multiple places. And it was my mom and three kids four nights a week. And even though she wasn't such a great cook, what she was was just, you know, like, do you want pancakes tonight? We're eating pancakes tonight. There were no rules. The magic of that was really nice to grow up with. That being said, I really noticed when there was good cooking, a friend's house or something. And no disrespect to my mom at all, but I loved mothers who really spent time. And I remember watching them cook and loving that whole feeling.

14:54And then as I grew up, I guess, both my grandmothers were great cooks. Let's talk about grandmothers. Yeah. It's funny because they're very different. They were raised in completely different places, but they both made an incredible homemade chicken noodle soup. So that I definitely remember. My dad's mom was a bit more of the kind of elaborate meals. And there were rules and people dressed nice. And I remember, you know, just kind of more fabulous people coming over to dinner parties and things like that, which was all very foreign. And they, both the grandmothers ended up living in California.

15:32They did. So we would drive out there. In the same town, same sort of place. Kind of near each other as they retired, yeah. You always said you can always remember the clink of ice because cocktails were always big. Yeah. High balls. You know, like the tumblers and ladies wearing nice slacks with painted nails. My mom was a little bit more of a hippie, and so that was also kind of exotic to me. Would you sit down to, you had to your brother's sister's? I'm the middle, so I have an older brother and a younger sister. Yeah, and so at mealtimes, even though you might have pancakes or something kind of bizarre, was it always expected that you would sit down for dinner?

16:09Yeah, we always ate together, and it was a really easy, not stressful, really kind of loving and fun and imaginative time. She was a really good mom in that way. And yeah, we all ate together. And our family, we really make a point. Maybe even though our teenager doesn't always love it, we eat really early. What time? Like 6, 5.36. And I like that everyone comes home, you have to eat, and you can do anything after, but we all sit together. Yes. I mean, when you said that you envied the kids, that you liked going to. My son, I have to tell you, once called me up. He went to the American school, and he called me up.

16:49He said, Mom, can you come over to Tedworth Square, which is a square right around the corner from where we live, to my friend's house? And I said, Why? And he said, Well, I'd just like to show you what a good mother's fridge looks like. First of all, I don't know how to unpack that statement. I know. Because it's saying that to you for a start. Yeah, exactly. Because if you opened our fridge, you'd see anchovies. Of course. You'd see a piece of parmesan. Of course. You'd see some beans that had been cooked. And then, you know, those American foods. Yes, the double-handers. The double, these people had that.

17:22And there was just, you know, I didn't go, so I don't know. Good. Would I go? No. No. A good mother. I like the idea of your grandmother and the cocktails. I think cocktails are really, that is a cultural phenomenon. Don't you think, Matthew? Absolutely. I bet you, did you have cocktails in Wales? Not so much cocktails. The staples, I think, for my parents were sherry. The kickoff was always a sherry. And then wine with the meal. I did, yeah. Yes. Or it was either a sherry kickoff or a gin and tonic kickoff. Was this for a dinner party? That was entertaining also. Yeah, sherries were usually Sundays.

17:56And then sort of, you know, the gin and tonics were usually kind of for dinner parties. or sometimes Sundays also. But my... Or Tuesdays. Or Tuesdays. Well, actually, any day ending in a Y. But my mother did love... She loved to cook and was a good cook and loved to entertain as well. So we did, you know, we certainly grew up with that being instilled that we sat around, you know, everyone sat around a table and I know I've become the stickler in our house about table etiquette. Tell me about the table etiquette. I mean, we're down to basics at this point. We're like, can you... Like maybe to use a fork and knife.

18:30That's a big one. That's a big one. Yes. And what else do I have to do? This is scary. If I come to dinner, do I have to power this etiquette? Oh, good grief, yes. Oh, my God. Yes. There's a wooden spoon for knuckles. Ah! What else do I have to do? No, nothing crazy. I'm a little too crazy about the holding of knife and fork. Oh, that is another cultural difference. Yes, yes. The finger on top. My big thing is it's not a pen. I'm like, are you writing with that knife? It's not a pen. and then Americans put their knife down yes like when they eat and then so they're far more selective which is why which is why meals take hours hours yes I'm like dear lord can we I'm dying for dessert okay so back to the etiquette at the house we have to sit down at the table and use our knife and fork correctly napkin on laps and then and then you know then we're into then we're into the second phase which is wreck conversation which is impossible can you please Can you please ask a sibling a question?

19:27Well, you know, Joe Biden, I interviewed his sister, and she talked about mealtimes at the Biden household, and everybody had to go around the table and talk about their day. I'm with them. There we are. I mean, how he became president of the United States. Of course, this could also end up with somebody who just dreads meals, you know. Right. That's my hope for the children. I think we're succeeding then. Oh, I think we've succeeded. I think we've nailed it. He's been out of it. Yes. So they, yeah. We've set aside money for their therapy. Yeah. So they can say, we used to dread. We used to dread.

20:01The mealtimes were shocking. I know. It was positively Dickensian. River especially. By the time we come around to him, he's just like, Willa, how was your day? Yeah. Just like. He's like, what's the bare minimum I can say that'll get me away from this table as quickly as possible? And get it done as quickly. As quickly. So the mealtime. So growing up, you had the wine. But actually, it's interesting that you had wine. Your parents, was that only for entertaining or would they sit down? No, they'd have wine. They'd have wine themselves. Yeah, they enjoyed wine. I mean, the culmination of the week was always the Sunday roast.

20:34Yeah. And that was everything, kind of, everything, you know, we'd go into the dining room for that, do you know what I mean? And it was always... Where did you grow up? In Cardiff, in Wales. And what was that like? My parents were teachers and then my father became a principal. Of a Welsh-speaking school? Oh, yes, yes. Yes, so, and you know, I think the Welsh, like a lot of the Celts, are kind of very culturally minded in order to kind of keep their own culture alive. So culture was a big element in the house, music was big. When you say it was a Welsh-speaking school, did they speak anything other than Welsh in the school?

21:09No, your English lessons were in English, but that was it. Everything else was taught in the medium of Welsh. And had you spoken it before you went? Yes, yeah. You learned English when you were four? I remember learning English. and like there was this new phenomenon my you know it was like we used to call it yes no language because it's all I could say for a while and I was like why are we learning this language what's this and do children I speak only Welsh to our youngest Sam yeah um and he's entering into his the beginnings of the rebellion when he's now saying no no no just say it in mama's language when the you know the the greater complexities are coming in you know I'm trying to explain to him what insurances in Welsh and you're like wait what what just say in mom's language no he he knows everything you're saying and his accent is exactly right um but he he likes to answer in English oh yeah he's in school I was I lived in Paris and a friend of mine had six children American in Paris married into this very very sort of grand French family and she said I have to speak to my children in my language.

22:14Because speaking to your children is complex enough. Of course. But then if you're trying to think about the past tense or the future tense or whatever it is. But do you feel more comfortable in Welsh? I do. And it wasn't a particularly conscious choice. It was just something I did absolutely instinctively when I was born. But then I speak to dogs in Welsh as well, so I don't know what that tells you. I want to tell me about Welsh food. Very much. Is there an identity as much as language with the food? There is. There is. In that way, I think the Irish and the Scots have, which is very much a peasant culture.

22:45The offcuts are primarily everything you do. And the great dish in Wales is, we call it cowl, which is a lamb's neck soup. So it's lamb's neck and then usually potatoes, leeks, carrots. How do you make it? Very, very simply. Everything is basically boiled with milk and salt. With milk? Yeah, a little bit of milk. I don't remember the milk going in. Not a huge amount. Okay. Or maybe I've misremembered that. But no, I'm pretty sure, yeah, kind of a dash of milk. Yeah. And then, yeah, you kind of, you know, fry up the onion and the leeks first, the carrots, boil the potatoes a bit, and then fry up the lamb's neck, and then add it all together and boil it up.

23:31Do you take the meat off the neck? Does it kind of shred? Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, with some thyme and salt. Yeah, what else do you eat? The other big one was seaweed or, you know, lava bread, which is a triple cooked seaweed. And that is usually made into a patty with kind of oatmeal and then fried in bacon fat. So it's nothing to do with bread. Lava bread is nothing to do with bread. No, it's basically more like a kind of looks more like a hamburger patty and then is eaten with kind of cockles. So, you know, the majority of the country is surrounded by the sea. So enormous kind of, again, peasant influenced, where can they scavenge from the shoreline?

24:12But you had the Sunday roast. That was always big. And that was, would that be lamb? A lot of lamb. My father's family, a huge number of them are sheep farmers. So a lot of lamb is eaten. It was lamb and beef. Those were the big favorites. And then, you know, we were always obsessed with Yorkshire pudding, which I've terrified Carrie with. But your Yorkshire pudding is a fantastic now. It's challenging Yorkshire pudding, isn't it? The kids love it. The kids are obsessed on them now. So delicious, yeah. They call them those bread things. And did you go to restaurants? I didn't go. I mean, I don't think we had the money for that.

24:50And I did not go. So it was all in my kind of 20s starting to go to restaurants. and our kids come with us to restaurants. Restaurants, for me growing up, were very special. What was it like in Cardiff, the restaurants? I mean, you know, it was, there was a great seafood game there. There was so, but they were special occasions. Birthdays, Mother's Day, we always went out. And then, yeah, there was like, you know, when we finished big exams, there was this one place, I think it's still going, called the Walnut Tree in Abergavenny. I remember, oh, the Walnut Tree was really, what was his name? Do you remember?

25:28I think he had an Italian name. Yes. Because I think he started a bit before, before Rose and I did the River Cafe. So it must have been in the early 80s that he did the walnut tree. It was, because my parents said, when we finish at 18, the big A-level, the walnut tree was where we were allowed to go. And that was, for me, like the dizzying height of cuisine. What did you eat? What did you order? They used to do this incredible seafood platter there. And the first time I met my older sister, she finished her exams. We took it there and I saw the seafood plant and was like, what is that? So when I went, that's what I ordered again.

26:02Because it just seemed so fancy. It was something incredible. It was like a work of art.