Nili Lotan on the five key pieces at her fashion company, her grandmother’s recipe book, and working for Ralph Lauren

0:00This is an iHeart Podcast.

0:30with kids, pets, or anyone who loves an easy-to-clean, spotless sofa. With a modular design and changeable slipcovers, you can customize your sofa to fit any space and style. Whether you need a single chair, loveseat, or a luxuriously large sectional, Anabay has you covered. Visit washablesofas.com to upgrade your home. Right now, you can shop up to 60 % off store-wide with a 30-day money-back guarantee. Shop now at washablesofas.com. Add a little to your life. Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply. You are listening to Ruthie's Table 4 in partnership with Montclair. Tonight, my friend Elizabeth Saltzman is hosting a dinner in the River Cafe for the brilliant designer Neely Lothan.

1:17Elizabeth invited me to the dinner, but what's exciting is having Neely here all to myself before we go in. Nili is a creative, an entrepreneur who knows how to work and also knows how to have a good time. A woman with strong values she's held onto since starting her own fashion company. She advocates for peace, she supports women and working mothers. She's authentic, having spent over 30 years refining her sense of style and her sense of self. She and I, a chef and a designer, have something else in common. Believing great design, whether food or fashion, is about simplicity, precision, and timelessness.

2:02We're going to talk about food and architecture, food and politics, food and family, food and fashion. And then we get to have dinner too. Lucky me. Lucky me. Thank you. You were born then in Israel. Born in Israel. So your parents came. She came in 1947. My older sister was born in 1949. She has a miscarriage between me and my sister, and then I was born in 1957. Israel was still, I mean, it's constantly in conflict and wars, but it was still, you know, a small country. Everyone knew each other. What did your father do? He was a developer, a real estate developer. He did very well for himself, and we always moved, into the new house that he built, which most of them were facing the Mediterranean.

2:58So I basically lived opening the window, and all I saw was the Mediterranean and the horizon. So when I ended up in Croton, I was like, I'm home. It may not be the Mediterranean, but I see the water. I was missing that in the city. Of course. So you grew up there. Grew up there. Then I went to fashion school. Where? In Tel Aviv. There's only one fashion school. So you knew you wanted to do fashion? It was my mom's recommendation. I didn't know if I wanted to be an architect, but then somehow this school opened up and it intrigued me because it was textile and design and just a very general but major in fashion.

3:41And I did very well in school, and then they actually sent me to New York. And that was the first time you really ever left? Yeah, so I went to Europe when I was 16. to Florence, to Paris, to the Netherlands. It was just like a teenage group. You know, we were like traveling as a group. Boy, I mean, when I went on that airplane, my mom had to prepare for me a suit because I thought I would not be anything but Jackie O, who I've seen in the papers, and I had to have my suit and going up with the steps. At 16. At 16. Oh, yeah, I knew exactly what I wanted. Yeah. Did you have fashion magazines? Were you looking at them?

4:28So that was the only resource I had was fashion magazine that I found at the hairdresser that my mom did her hair. There were no fashion magazines in stores. So she used to get it from her sister from Paris. And that's how I learned about Saint Laurent and all these beautiful clothes. So this is late 60s then? This is 60s, yeah. And so you traveled around, but then you went. So who did you stay with when you went to New York? I stayed in the 92nd Y. I got my first job for 23 years. I worked in the fashion industry, and then I opened my own. You worked for Ralph Lauren, didn't you? I worked for Ralph in the 90s, late 90s.

5:14Then from Ralph, I moved to Nautica. Ralph was my best experience. Like if I ever, Ralph was the only design driven company out of all the companies that I worked for. He, he's still is, you know, I think so unique in his approach to women and dressing a woman, a woman. And consistency, perseverance, and, and not being straight by no trends, just consistency. And I think I pretty much follow that. Do you know Graydon Carter? He was the editor of Vanity Fair. I was just with him this weekend in France, and he was talking a lot about Ralph. Yeah, Ralph is very unique, I think, from a marketing genius to just being so consistent.

6:14And rigorous, yeah. And tell me about starting a business, because both of us, I think, have actually started our own businesses. I did it with my partner, Rose. At what age? I was 38, and Rose was 10 years older, and we started the River Cafe with nothing and with a very simple idea. But reading about what you did, you also started. Yeah. Did you do it on your own with a friend or with a partner? So I actually worked at Nautica at the time, and then one day David Chu, the founder of Nautica, nonchalantly, like without any preparation, said to me, hey, if you ever want to start your own business, I'll financially back you up.

6:55I'm like, oh, really? But that means something. I mean, if he went to you to say that, he must have, you know, respect with you. Yeah. So we started it together, and then a couple of weeks later, he kind of regretted the idea because he decided that he wants to move to China. And so he left and I continued it on my own without having the means, without having the financial, without having a business plan, with a lot of drive and confidence and a very simple idea. What was the idea? So by then I was designing for 23 years and I realized that at every company, whether it's clothing, food, music, There is always few things that drive the business at the end of the day.

7:48If you design a collection, at the end of the day, there'll be five pieces that drive the sales. I'm sure it's the same thing in the kitchen. So I said, I'm smart enough to figure out those five pieces. Why should I design 200? Let me just start with these five pieces. And that's it. What were they? There were actually one of those items till today is my best-selling item. It's called the Sean Penn. Yes. And everyone owns it in five colors. And it's ridiculous because it was right on. Bingo. It all started with my ex-husband flight suit. My husband was a pilot in the Israeli Air Force. I looked at the flight suit.

8:31I actually, Annie Leibowitz, I went her there at the 92nd Y. and someone asked her, what do you recommend to a young photographer? And she said, look around yourself and find objects that are right near you. She was talking about how she started, she photographed her dad. And so I looked around, I found my husband's jumpsuit, the flight suit, and I dissected it and basically created a pant out of it and a jacket out of it. Five items, that's it. I did it in a very special technique, which I actually make the garments, and when it's done, I dip it into color. So from a business perspective, it's a very smart thing to do because one of the problems that you come across in fashion, and it's the same in food, the life shelf is very short.

9:31So in clothes, when you make clothes, it doesn't get bad in food, but people just want the newest thing. So you can't stay with too much inventory. So by dipping it by demand, I never have leftovers. I basically always cut and sew and dip by demand. that was great till I opened my own shops because when I was basically answering other people's orders I could do that but once I had to plan for my own retail stores it changed but in any event it was very smart little clean tight concept that financially allowed me to invest very little and to grow the company organically I started from there and then I started to add things, pieces to it and categories to it.

10:27By now we have bags, swimwear, men's, women's, way beyond those five pieces. But I think it's a smart thing to do, to start with something that you really feel, believe in. And the proof is that that piece is still my number one selling pen, so I guess I knew what I was doing. I always, when chefs leave and they say they're going to start their own restaurant, what advice do I have? For me, I like to start small and grow. That's what we did, whether it's the restaurant, whether it's doing parties for other people, whether it's starting a little cafe. It's all been part of a process. I never had, oh, I have an idea.

11:09Let's do that. My husband used to say that. He's an architect. He used to say, I never had an idea. It's not about an idea. It's about, you know, we make an almond tart in the winter with pears, but then in the summer we make it with strawberries. You know, it kind of, it just grows. I think design, I always tell this to my designers, but also to more of the business side of things, design is a process. Yeah, it's a process. Cooking is a process. It's a process. You know, I start with something, and then it evolves, and then people say, but it's, you know, when you have people involved in your business and they start to start, you get your sketches early on, and they say, but wait, this is what you did, but why are you here?

11:51I said, because it's a process. I only know when I start. I don't know where I end. Yeah. And I think it's hard for people who are not creative to understand that the design, it's a living thing. And when you're ready to say, okay, I'm done. By the way, you never stop because it just gets – I always say that my collections is one collection that I started in 2003. And it just keeps growing and evolving. and that's why it's a play on the same theme. You know, it's like how do you take a white shirt and make it better and better and better? How do you take, you know, any element that's in your wardrobe, a pea coat, and how do you make it better and better and better?

12:37And it's so great to know that you can make it actually better.

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14:00Visit washablesofas.com to upgrade your home. Right now, you can shop up to 60 % off storewide with a 30-day money-back guarantee. Shop now at washablesofas.com. Add a little... to your life. Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply. Parking shouldn't slow you down. ParkWiz gives every driver a shortcut. Book ahead, save up to 50 % and skip the hassle of circling the block. Park smarter, park faster. ParkWiz. Download the ParkWiz app today and save every time you park. Zucchini that you're having tonight is an antipasti. So I thought that would be something that you might like to listen to read.

14:42Zucchini trifolatti. 12 small zucchini trimmed. three tablespoon olive oil, two garlic cloves, 125 milligram of boiling water. That's interesting. I didn't know. A handful of fresh mint or basil leaves, roughly chopped. I'm going to make this. Cut each zucchini at angle into three to four slices. Heat the olive oil in a large frying pan, add the garlic, then zucchini, and cook slowly for 15 minutes. So you put the garlic and then immediately the zucchini. Pour in the boiling water and stir, scraping up the mixture that will have formed on the bottom of the pan. Cook until all the water has been observed and zucchini are soft.

15:33Add the mint or basil and season with sea salt and black pepper. Delicious as an antipasti with prosciutto, di parma, or mozzarella. Wow. By the way, zucchini, I don't know if you're familiar with this so my mom used to grade zucchini yeah and make lots and then she sautéed it no she sautéed it with um dill dill yeah yeah and then she would serve it with a little bit of sour cream like i've never seen anything like that anywhere but it was delicious yeah did she grade it and then get the water out yeah get the water out and then do that thing in the towel yeah yeah um and then she would also sauté it and then throw some eggs over it like she did a lot of zucchini wild recipes that are not in any...

16:19I didn't know that zucchini was very Hungarian. I guess I should know that. I grew up with Eastern European cooking. Mom is the Hungarian one. I think on your end it was the... My father's family were Hungarian. And so I have very much of a... Zucchini is part of the... Yeah, and was your grandmother... Do you remember your grandmother? No, I didn't because they were Holocaust survivors, So they're the only one that came. My father's Russian. My mom Hungarian. Same combination. They immigrated to Israel after the war. They came on a boat. They were dropped in Haifa. They grabbed the first driver that they could grab.

16:58They didn't have any money and one little suitcase. And landed on my uncle, who lived on the dunes on the beach of Netanya, which is a town 20 minutes from Tel Aviv, north. and they just landed. Here we are. They didn't have money, so he had to pay for the driver, and then they stayed there. And then, you know, little by little, my dad did very well for himself. So your mother and father met in Hungary? They met in Austria in a refugee camp. So my mom escaped Hungary as the, you know, Hungary was the last country for the Germans to invade. And the German came from one side and the Russian from the other.

17:43And they were like kind of, they, the Jews in Hungary were killed literally in weeks. And so they were able to escape to Austria to an UNRWA refugee camp. My dad escaped from Russia. He was studying law in Sorbonne. And when the war started, he went back home to Russia. He was setting law at the Sorbonne. Sorbonne, yeah. And then he went to Russia and then realized that that's not, he didn't have parents. His mom passed away when he was five. His dad passed away right then. So he started to move towards Austria. He knew that he had a brother in Israel, so he was trying to get there. Met my mom, two weeks later got married and moved.

18:34So she didn't even know him. She knew him for two weeks. And, yeah. When you think that, you know, what she went through, and then to get to a foreign country. How many children? So me and my sister, who was eight years older than me. So she was born 1941, and I was born eight years later. Yeah. No, it's been basically the story of the establishment of Israel. You know, my parents. What age did she leave Hungary? She was 22, 23. So she really had that. She had a little recipe book that she brought with her. Do you have it? I do, but it's in Hungarian and I can't read it. But I do keep it. You should get it translated.

19:23I always say that with the guests that we've done, quite a few of them have had books from their mothers when they went to university, from their grandmothers. And I think that having those recipe books is part of the history, part of the tradition. Tell me more about the book. So I actually used to watch her where she was cooking. So it's all in my head. I can't read her book, but I can imagine what's in it. I'm sure there's more than what I remember. But I remember it was pretty much a routine. Like she didn't experiment much. She cooked the classic dishes. And then we had a grandma in our building.

20:04She was a Romanian, and she taught her a lot of bakery, you know, like baking goods. So she experiments with all these cakes, which one of them I carry. And I think they're actually giving the recipe of that cookie tonight. Are you? It's almond crescent cookies that she used to make. I just added some lemon to it, and so I twisted it a bit. and then I pretty much, I do the stuffed peppers from her recipes. What do you stuff them with? Ground meat with rice, cumin, or a lot, she used to do a lot of paprika, and she was basically cooking most of the time. My dad was busy from 6 to 8, but he would come in at 12 to eat the main meal, and I would come back from school at 2, So literally from 12 to 3, she was basically serving food.

21:00Was she happy, do you think? She was very happy. Yeah, she was very happy. I mean, she loved being in a country that she felt free. She was very disappointed, you know, living in her homeland, you know, in such consequences. And she kept reminding us, you know, what is it to be in your own place? Did she have a kosher house? No. Most Eastern European Jews that came after the war lost their religious faith because of the Holocaust and were not observing. So actually as a child, I've never been to a synagogue. They were completely secular, liberal. But she brought the food with her. She brought the food with her.

21:46And food is, I teach my daughters, you know, I think there's something about if there's no religious, there is food. Yeah. I think that's something to hand from one generation to the other. And I think it has been because, again, when we talk to people, many, many people who we talk with remember the food of their grandmother, maybe sometimes more than their mother. And I'm very touched by the idea of this book that your mother had. And did she make it for you or did she make it for herself? No, so she, that was herself, for herself. So I made, now I'm actually in the process of me and my daughter, we're writing the same book.

22:29She writes it in English and I write it in Hebrew. And none of my kids. Tell me about it. What is it? So it's just all the recipes that I ended up doing because I've collected so many. So I've, as I said, born with my mom cooking mostly Hungarian. My dad injected his. Did he cook? He didn't cook. He made a delicious salad. That was his thing. and then you have to tell him how delicious it is because when he was done, so, and if you didn't tell him it was the most delicious thing. But, you know, there is that thing. That's the reason why you do that. So I totally empathize with your father. When I'm sitting, we have an open kitchen, and I watch people on their hand at a plate, you know, and you can see the response or you can see them looking at each other or you see them, you know, enjoying it or giving some or not enjoying it, you know, passing it around.

23:20But the response to food is very, very important, isn't it? There's something about cooking that it's the language of love, you know. It's a way of extending, of giving. And I find myself, you know, over the weekend mostly cooking and baking. Does your husband cook? My husband is the best. How does he cook? So David is a musician. Yeah. And he loves cooking. I've heard he's a great musician. Yes, very good musician. He's very well known, actually. And he grew from the age 12 to 18 in Madrid. So his vocabulary, his mom, I don't think, I think she cooked, but he wasn't really much influenced by it.

24:03So really the years in Spain is what influenced him. So he does everything on the plancha. Everything is very, very quick. So he brought that into the world of us. So we basically go into the kitchen together and cook together. But we both, you know, are very much influenced by Israel. So that whole spices come from that region, and then we mix it with the Hungarian and the Spanish and the whole thing. It's amazing. The difference between David and I, I need to know what I'm cooking. I need to prepare for it. I need to make sure that everything is there. David just goes into the kitchen, and whatever he finds, he just throws.

24:46Boom, boom, boom, and it's delicious. I'm a bit more like him. And he remembers taste. So, like, if he would go to a restaurant and I like something, he said, okay, there is this in it, this in that, and this in that, and then he'll try to make it. So he's naturally very talented in cooking. With your children, how did you bring them up? Did you all sit down to dinner as a family, or did you all? Yeah. Now the kids are out of the home, you know. Our kids are anywhere from 29 to 40. Yeah. And we don't cook during the week. We eat out. There's two restaurants that we religiously go to. We go to Bar Piti at least three times a week.

25:28We basically just cross everybody's line and just walk in and sit in our chair and table. And Odeon, because it's just super convenient, it's right there. We live right next door. So that's it. We don't want to know about any other restaurant. We don't care about any other restaurant. And then on the weekend we cook. So we stop at Citarella. We buy the fish, the meat. David makes the best steak ever. What does he do? Do you know his technique? He basically put it on the plancha with a lot of butter. Butter? Yeah. And then he actually somehow pours the butter on the steak. So it's like if you didn't have enough butter, there comes more butter.

26:12I empathize. I love butter. Delicious. Yeah. I mean, I've never had, and I didn't eat meat from age 18 till I met David. From when? Till I met David, which was in my 40s. Yeah. And all I needed to do is one steak, which I tasted, and that was the end. Now I eat steak almost at least once a week.

26:36An open kitchen in the River Cafe means we as chefs are able to talk to our guests dining in the restaurant. And now we're bringing that same ethos to our podcast, a question and answer episode with me and our two executive chefs. Send a voice note with your question to questions at rivercafe.co.uk. And you might just be our next great guest on Ruthie's Table 4.

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27:51Plus, they're earth-friendly and trusted by over 200 ,000 happy customers. It's time to upgrade to a stress-free, mess-proof sofa. Visit washablesofas.com today and save. That's washablesofas.com. Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply. Parking shouldn't slow you down. ParkWiz gives every driver a shortcut. Book ahead, save up to 50 % and skip the hassle of circling the block. Park smarter, park faster. ParkWiz. Download the ParkWiz app today and save every time you park. What do you feel about the other side of fashion, which is to make a new collection every season, to make an enormous amount of choice?

28:32I am exhausted by choice. Whether it's in a supermarket or when I go to buy clothes, you know, when you're confronted with an array of options, it's very... And also it's unsustainable, isn't it? A hundred percent. I think that we are in a certain cycle that I think since COVID, I think this industry is trying to break through, but it's not happening for some reason. It's not sustainable. you know I have a very dear friend he was a poet a very big poet in Israel and he kept asking me I don't understand why do you have to do four collections why not two and I said what will the people do in between so it's you kind of keep their jobs going that's one of the reasons because trust me I would be so thrilled if I could do two collections a year and rest in between or cook in between or do other things in between do architectural project in between, but you have a team of people that, what do you do with them?