Savanah Leaf

0:00This is an iHeart Podcast.

0:30and crisp. There's caffeinated sugar-free flavor for everyone. Fix your tired fast. Buy now at 5hourenergy.com. You are listening to Ruthie's Table 4 in partnership with Montclair. A few weeks ago, I was invited to a gala dinner at the National Theater. The host of my table, Yana Peel, said she was sitting me next to a young filmmaker who had recently won a BAFTA. Then I met an artist whose work had just been exhibited at Hauser & Wirth Gallery in Los Angeles and is about to be shown at the San Francisco Museum of Modern Art. Then I met a champion volleyball player who aged 18 represented Britain in the 2012 London Olympics.

1:17Today in the River Cafe, I'm about to talk with all three, as Savannah Leaf incredibly is them all. The London-born, California-raised athlete-turned-artist, who, still only 30, has just won the BAFTA for Best British Debut Director for her powerful film, Earth Mama. Executive chef of the River Cafe, Sean Owen, is joining us. Now we are five. Cook, an artist, a director, an athlete, and me. Women rule. I love that. I love that. We're old. Yeah, we're good. So it was an amazing dinner, wasn't it? It was really nice. And you never know who you're going to sit next to. No, I was happily surprised.

2:05Me too. We sat next to each other. And it was a pretty amazing night, wasn't it? Yeah. Because it was a gala supporting the National Theatre. And it was really created by the actors and the director. Yeah. You really felt like the theatre experience while also going to a gala with food and an auction and all of it. But it was really nice to just be seated next to you and talking to you about everything, architecture, food, film. Yeah, we used to discover volleyball. Volleyball. Volleyball, sports. And I think you very often meet people who do different things, that they can be a chef, they could be a writer, they could be an actor and a mother they could be an actor and a director and love to swim there are people who do combine different parts of of life together and then there are people who do one thing you know so that's fine too or some people do nothing and that's fine too but you know I so from interesting to meet I've never met anyone who was an Olympic much less the volleyball player in the Olympics.

3:18So I think it's interesting how you have taken those parallel lives and put them together. There's lots to talk about food and lots to talk about how you got where you are and what you want to do. But how does the combination of being an athlete and being an artist, what has that taught you? At this point, it sounds really weird saying that I've played in the Olympics and, you know, have made a film and do video art. And it sounds like a, not like a typical kind of narrative, but when I look back on it, I really feel there's a lot of parallels, you know? And the transition doesn't feel as crazy because when I was an athlete, I was working in a team environment.

4:07You're very good under pressure a lot of the times, and And you're kind of looking at all your teammates around you and you're seeing what their strengths are. And then you're trying to pull that out of them. And you're also seeing their weaknesses and where you can kind of fill in or help them in spaces that they're struggling with. And it's all about this kind of movement towards a common goal, you know. And at the time also when I played in the Olympics, I was also going to university in Miami. And I was playing Division I volleyball there. And while I was at that university, I studied psychology and human and social development.

4:45So I was already thinking about kind of how we interact in our societies and what individuals struggle within their own kind of mental health. And so I was thinking about kind of like society and how we can help one another or kind of focus on individual stories. And then I was also in this team environment. So in a way, like film is kind of a combination of all of that, because you have to kind of work in a similar setting. You have this like clock while you're on set and you have this kind of the day is, you know, moving quickly and you have to get to this common goal and you have to make quick decisions.

5:27And there's like an intuition there that I think is kind of very common in a lot of these artistic scenarios. scenarios. And then you also have this kind of study on the character and the human development in society. And then you have artistic expression, which is something I felt like I was lacking in sports. I didn't get to share my mind or what was going on in terms of my worldview. And so there was a point in sports where I was like, I need to share my voice. I have all these stories inside of me, but I haven't been able to show them because all I'm doing is expressing things with my body.

6:07So all of a sudden I could start expressing things with my mind. And that, that was very liberating for me. And when you then, you segued from volleyball to film, did you start out as an actor in a film? Did you just make small films? Well, my first, Well, I think ever since I was a kid, I was painting or drawing or doing different variations of art. And then I got injured playing in Puerto Rico because I was playing professionally in Puerto Rico at the time. What is the injury you would suffer in volleyball? Yes. So I had stress fractures in both of my legs. And at the time they were telling me, which actually relates to food in a funny way.

6:54I had transitioned when I was in Team GB. I was like eating everything. And then I started becoming like a pescatarian. Then I became a vegan because I realized like I was eating kind of everything and anything. Like Burger King, McDonald's, literally every day was just like downing as much food as possible. Like six eggs for breakfast, just excessive amount of food. And then when I got to the Olympics and I started getting a nutritionist, they were kind of like, ah, you're a little bit, you're like not eating very healthy. you're kind of a little bit heavier than you should be. And we need, you need to kind of like be thinking about what you're eating and the kind of energy you're preserving and, you know, how you can kind of utilize that energy.

7:35And so it kind of started to get me thinking about food a little bit more. Um, but when I went back to university, I decided to just like go full, full throttle, like vegan. Um, and so I just cut everything, but I didn't really know how to like balance that vegan diet. So I was just kind of eating like an insane amount of like bananas and broccoli and like, but not really thinking about what is, what is that food? Were you having enough protein then? So, so exactly that. So when I went and played in Puerto Rico, like a few years later, I had such a strict diet, but I got these stress fractures in my bones and my shins and my bones were becoming really frail.

8:15And I don't know, maybe it's just the overworking. I was working like all through the year, both for Team GB in England, and then also professionally, I was literally taking no time off. And a lot of times you're jumping in a gym with like, just cement beneath your legs. And so you're just completely over, overworking yourself. But then when I went to the doctors, they were saying, oh, like, it could be because you're not getting enough like vitamin D, and you're not getting enough nutrients for your bones to kind of maintain while you're overworking them. Basically, they told me I had to either put rods in my legs or I would have to take at least a year off, if not more.

8:57And they said during that time, if I take that time off, I can't walk much. I have to just like be as still as possible. Don't do exercises. If you do any exercise, it has to be in the pool. And so it really forced me to like sit and think about kind of what my life was at that kind of young age and how long I wanted to do this for. And like, at what age do you retire? Can I go back to this? And so, and am I happy doing what I'm doing? And I started thinking about what else could I be? Like, I've always been known as this athlete. because you see me when I walk in, I'm like very tall, athletic looking.

9:38It's like instantly what people think of when they see me. And so I started kind of thinking of myself as more than an athlete. And that was like very liberating.

9:55The River Cafe is excited. We're opening the River Cafe Cafe. Come for a morning brioche and cappuccino, a plate of seasonal antipasti on the terrace, or an ice cream or aperitivo in the sun. We can't wait to open, and we cannot wait to welcome you.

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11:52In your family, growing up as a child, what was food like in your family? Did your mother cook? Did you sit around the table at night to start being a child in the household? You had a single parent? Yeah, it was just me and my mom. And you grew up in San Francisco? Well, so I grew up half my life here in Vauxhall. And I grew up with just my mom when I was little. and it was, you know, she's working long hours, and so sometimes it was neighbors that I'm eating dinner with or sometimes it's my mom, and so it would be a mixture of things. You were an only child. I was an only child until I was 16, and then my mom had my sister.

12:38So growing up, though, it was you and your mom. So would she come back from home from work? Yeah, sometimes it would be late. Sometimes it would be late, And I think, like, as I got older, there was a lot of, like, you know, microwavable meals or whatever you could have, especially, like, when you're also thinking about I would then go to sports practice. I go to volleyball practice or basketball practice. What age did you start playing volleyball? I think it was, like, nine, maybe ten. A lot of times, like, my mom would be arriving home and I'd be going to practice or something like that. So I would have to eat before she came home.

13:14But then also, like, I think there was different stages. Sometimes, you know, there was also times where my mom would make something on a Sunday and then there would be leftovers so I could eat it for the next couple of days. Did you have grandparents around? No, because I grew up with only my mom and then we moved to the Bay Area in California. And my grandma lives in Yorkshire, Weatherby. Do you know where that is? Yeah. Okay. So my grandma lives in Weatherby. And so she wasn't really around. We would sometimes go for Christmas or something like that. But my grandma had this like really simple pasta.

13:56And I remember just like asking my mom for it all the time. And it was the most simple thing. It was literally like penne pasta with like a tin red sauce and then cheese on top. And you put it in the oven. But for some reason it like had this kind of, I don't know. I would just ask my mom for it like all the time and I think even now we call it like grandma's famous yeah famous possibly even though it's very simple yeah yeah and so San Francisco what was that like for you to move yeah how old were you then I was eight years old when I moved so did you start playing volleyball when I got there and I started seeing I because volleyball is not really like a big thing in the UK yeah at all I think like in the London 2012 Olympics is when people realize, you know, what kind of sport it was.

14:42But when I moved to the Bay Area, volleyball and basketball were huge. And for women? Yeah, for women, for young girls. And I mean, I think basketball I was more excited about at the time, but I was like, I've always been a kid that hung around a lot of guys. And so I would, there was like this basketball hoop kind of close to my house where all the guys would play and they would ask me if I wanted to join in. And so I would join in. Um, but you went for volleyball over basketball. Yeah. Cause I was better at volleyball. Yeah. And, um, I was stronger at it and, um, and I was starting to, people were noticing me for, for volleyball and like, I was getting a lot of offers to play in university.

15:28And, um, the more offers I got, I realized like, let's lean into that, you know, let's lean into the way I naturally am like better. What did your mother think? I think she was just like excited to see me finding something I was good at. Also, it was something like I could go and play in university and have everything paid for and have like this whole trajectory in my life. And so she was excited to watch that. But yeah, it's very moving to me the way you spoke about, about being in a team, being in a space, moving into another space to help someone, having someone move into your space, the collaboration.

16:15It reminded me of what we do here. Probably in many, many offices, many fields. There are people who, as I say, like to work at home by themselves in a room with a typewriter, or there are people who really seek out the kind of feel. And I think cinema, I was on a set the other day, And it really struck me how similar probably in the National Theatre, how many similarities there are, I thought, with the time between a restaurant and theatre. Yeah, I can see it even now, like just looking into the kitchen and seeing everyone kind of knows their position but then also can help each other out if they need to.

16:57But yeah, it's something that I think about a lot when I get, when I'm like in the hiring position, you know, as a director, you're thinking about who can I hire and balance out on a set? Cause I need, sometimes I want to hire someone that's never done this role before, but I like them for their kind of general vision. You know, for, for my film Earth Mama, I, I hired this costume designer who had never done a film before, but she just had such a great taste for it. And so it's like a matter of hiring her and then hiring someone that's very experienced that can work with her, you know, and kind of under her to help kind of manage everything.

17:39And so I like that idea of hiring and kind of thinking how can we find people from different places to help this vision be progressive and challenge the way cinema is made, but then also kind of have the experience of some of these people that have done it time and time again, you know? During this period when you became interested in doing film and working and then you say how you started, and then when you were in the situation of being actually a director, and you could create your own world, was that very empowering? Well, yeah, I didn't take long. I started working for a company and then I, like, left maybe four months in or something and kind of saved up money and made my first little short.

18:25What was that? It was called F Word. It was kind of about a girl who's coping with not knowing her father. Is that autobiographical? Yes, it is. But it's also, you fictionalize it a little bit to have a bit of distance to it. How long ago was that? That was 2015, I think. I was 21. And then actually, it's interesting you thinking about like, you know, shifting your career, finding ways, because then, you know, eight years later, I guess, Earth Mama was released in 2023 last year, which is my first feature film, which feels like a big shift from them from doing your first, you know, little short film to doing your first feature film.

19:13And then last year also releasing like a piece of video art. Yeah. And like moving into the video art space and the art world. And I don't know. I think you get to a point in your career where you've like been doing it for almost 10 years. And then you feel like how can I challenge myself in a whole nother space or like keep evolving. And I think for myself, I hope that I'm always like that. throughout my whole life is always not afraid to take that kind of jump into a new space because the idea of having one job for all of your life doesn't excite me. For me, I need to have those shifts. Can you tell us about the movie?

19:58Earth Mama is about a young woman who has two children in foster care and one child on the way. And it's all set in the Bay Area. and she is trying to figure out what she's going to do with her unborn child, whether she's going to give her child up for adoption or try to keep it. And so there's kind of this dilemma there of whether or not as well, whether the system is going to allow her to keep her child or not. So it kind of goes through her final days of her pregnancy and how she maneuvers those obstacles. course when we talk about adoption yeah and I'm a mother of an adopted child a lot of it is about love as a mother I had one child that was I would say handed to me on the on my breast after giving birth and another child who was handed to me in a hotel lobby you know in Philadelphia and then I remember going up on the elevator and thinking I could no sooner give this baby away yeah you know than the one that I gave birth to.

21:01And I think, and it is about what is love, what is protection, what is taken care of. And so I think that, and you experienced that with your own sister. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Well, the film is like roughly based on my relationship to my own sister. My sister was adopted when I was 16. It was a really pivotal moment in my life, which is why I wanted to make this film, because for me as a 16-year-old, meeting her birth mother and like sitting across from her and just thinking about this kind of selfless acts that she was going to do, but also the pressures in her life at that time and how she was going to have to make that decision.

21:48And she told me at the time, she said, I want you to be the role model that I can't be in her life. And I remember that shifting something within me. Because when you're an only child, you don't have that same sort of responsibility as you have as an older sister or a parent. And at that age, being 16, I almost felt like a second parent to my sibling. Did you cook for her? she was so young she was like I was giving her the um the bottle so I was I was I was doing that but um she I left the house before she really started eating foods um you have a scene in in the movie which takes place in a restaurant yeah and it's a very emotional scene yeah yeah can you describe the scene yeah so there's this moment which is actually you know in the first draft of the script, I wrote it.

22:42And there was one scene that stuck through that whole first draft, which was this scene that you're talking about, which is the middle point of the film, which is where the birth mother meets the adoptive family for the first time. And they meet over food, over in a restaurant. And it's kind of playing with this, the uncomfortability, but also the intrigue and the questions you have, all these feelings that arise when you're sitting across the table from someone who's potentially going to be giving her child to you and you kind of anticipating that child, whether you couldn't have children before that or what that anticipation is like.

23:21And also as a sister, what it was like to sit across from this person that you're kind of know nothing about, but they're potentially changing your whole life. So it was such an an important scene in the film and it started in the first draft and maintained throughout the whole film but I think it's also been one of the things that people take home or take with them the most in the movie. It's interesting in the scene the detailed ordering of the food and also I think what's interesting is that you're doing a very very personal very probably I can't imagine a more compellingly personal emotional scene between people than than talking about you know the loss of a baby and and giving a baby away to parents and yet it's set in a in a restaurant yeah you think you might do that in somebody's house yeah in a in a in a living room or in an office yeah that you that you put it in a at a restaurant is interesting because again, I say over and over that people do very private things in a very public space.

24:29Yeah. People do gravitate. If you go to the tables, looking out here in the garden, you know, you have no idea what they're talking about. They might be just talking about their day or what their plans are, how much fun they're having in London, or they might be discussing very life-changing issues. Yeah. I think actually, like, some of my most key moments in life have been in, like, restaurant you know like meeting my sister's birth mother for the first first time or meeting with someone that you had a relationship with before and then you're just having a meeting again and that there is this like kind of comforting space because you can always eat to fill the silence if you need to and you're being looked after by a waiter you don't have to get up and get the salt from the cupboard yeah there's like something about that the fact that it's in a public space and you're sharing this personal moment in a public space is like very vulnerable and it kind of can bring all these emotions out or you're having to hide emotions as well and so I think in in scenes and films there's something really profound about setting these like private yeah moments in a public space.

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27:38As we're reading the recipe for farinata, Sean, executive chef of the River Cafe, is just coming in with farinata for you to share. Have you ever had it before? I actually have no idea what farinata is, so this is exciting. Really? Yeah. So this is actually a pancake made out of chickpea flour. Amazing. So it's super, it's actually vegan and gluten-free. Amazing. I don't know if you have any dietries. I do. I'm pescatarian, so this is the thing I used to be. Okay, perfect. It's going to tickle boxes. Yeah. Yeah. It's a kind of street food from Genoa. And it's just made with chickpea flour and olive oil, fennel seeds, rosemary.