Scott Galloway

0:00This is an iHeart Podcast.

0:30on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I am often asked who would be the person I'd most like to see walk through the doors of the River Cafe. I usually say Nelson Mandela, but he's not coming. So then it really depends on what I'm reading, watching, or listening to. For months, the top of my list has been Scott Galloway, whose Prof G podcast is where I go to be informed and inspired. Scott opens up subjects I hardly know about. Tech, entrepreneurism, social media, AI, financial markets up and down. And yesterday, actually, something I do know about, olive oil.

1:12But this is not just what compelled me to invite him to lunch when I heard he'd moved to London. It was that this professor of marketing at the New York University Stern School of Business gives his salary back to the university and talks about loneliness, isolation, connection, and belonging. He worries about the disenfranchised and lonely young men. Scott is tough and he's direct, but he's compassionate, he's honest, and he's probing. And that is a person who I'm listening to most these days and who has just walked through the doors of the River Cafe to sit down with me at table four. Ruthie, so this is absolutely a first.

1:56I have never had my name mentioned in the same sentence as Nelson Mandela. I think you've set an impossibly high bar. You don't hear Nelson Mandela and Scott Galloway a lot, but it's great to be with you. I realize that you're interviewing me, but I just have a couple of things I want to get off my chest. I didn't realize that you're literally the most powerful person in the world. Anyone I meet who's powerful is like, oh yeah, I'm coming to London and I'm staying with Ruthie or I'm seeing Ruthie. You literally know everybody. And also, just a quick story. You did something that was very impactful.

2:37And I don't know if you know what this is, but we had never met. I was regretting accepting the lunch invitation. I didn't know the River Cafe. I didn't know you. It just popped up on my calendar. And I got there, and you're lovely, and obviously I found out this is an iconic establishment. And I don't know if you remember this, but about 20 or 30 minutes into the lunch, I was talking, I think I was talking about my sons, and you just very casually held my hand. And it was at first kind of shocking and a bit rattling. And you did it two or three more times throughout the lunch. And by the end of the lunch, I was not only comfortable with it, but I was really moved by it.

3:18And I thought, I wish more people had the confidence to express that sort of affection physically. And it taught me that that was the most impactful thing about our lunch, that this person who I had never met before had the confidence and the affection to hold my hand. It really sort of stilled me. I kind of do remember because I was a little scared that you'd actually accepted the invitation and that you were coming. And I suppose I wanted to, I don't know, it was like a first meeting, but it was over food. It was in the restaurant. I guess I wanted to impress you. I wanted it to be good. And I remember we talked and then I think I asked you advice.

4:07And again, you were just so focused on it. You just kind of talked to me in a way that really engaged. And I was very touched by that. And so maybe that was for me an important moment and then reaching out for your hand. I don't remember doing it, but I guess I did. And if I did, it was because I, at that point, I felt comfortable. Well, for whatever reason, very few people feel that comfort with me. So we really stood out. And I loved it. I would tell you to continue to do it. Okay, well, come over. What are you doing this afternoon? Anytime. That's right. That's right. I like that. So I don't know how food connects with your world, but we might try and find that out in this conversation.

4:57Because for me, doing these podcasts is getting to know somebody through food. And it can be a senator, it can be a footballer, it can be a rock star, it can be somebody I met on the beach in Mexico. And when you start talking about food, maybe it brings up memories. So I was thinking about your mother, which I know you talk about your mother. You talk about her in your podcast when you're talking at night. And I was wondering about connection as a child. So I was very, I do a lot of this. I'm a guest on a lot of podcasts. And I was, I think, more self-conscious about this one than most, if not all of them.

5:40Because the reality is, Ruthie, is I'm not a foodie. And food is almost, I don't want to call it a tax, but my mother, I was raised by a single mother. We didn't have a lot of money. She worked full-time as a secretary. and was British. So it wasn't exactly like fantastic. Food, I joke, food was punishment in my household. We used to, every Sunday night, she'd make a big vat. She was very busy. It was just the two of us. She'd make a big vat of shepherd's pie and then freeze it. And every day or five of the next seven nights when I get home from school, I would put a slice of this frozen shepherd's pie in a microwave that felt like it was Chernobyl before it exploded.

6:26And so I didn't grow up with what I'll call real inspired food. In addition, I think I suffer a little bit from body dysmorphia. I don't, I have trouble and no one's going to feel sorry for this. I have trouble keeping weight on. So I've always had to eat more. I was an athlete when I was younger. My coaches always said one thing, you need to gain weight. So I think I'm probably going to win the award for the least foodie person on this podcast. And I was thinking about, what if she asked me what are my favorite restaurants? I don't go to restaurants. I don't go for the food. I go for the environment.

6:59And food for me is like wine. It tops out at about 30 bucks a bottle. I just don't have that refined a palate. So I go to places that have good food, but I'm more about the environment and a place that I'll enjoy being. But I'm not, you know, my, anyways, going back to your original question, on Sunday nights in college, I lived at home for the first year and I used to come home. I call it, I came home. And that is when I was 16 and 17, I did what most young men did. And that is I started to be a bit of a jerk to my mother or I was just rebelling. And I wasn't mean, but there's a biological and an anthropological catalyst that makes it easier for kids to leave the household.

7:40And that is when they turn into teens, they become unbearable and it makes it easier for everybody. And then I kind of came home. When you're like 19 or 20, you realize, you know, it's me and my mom against the world. She was the only person who was irrationally passionate about my well-being. And I used to go home a lot. And she'd always cook for me. And it'd always be the same thing. Did she make? She'd always make a roast. Yeah. A roast and potatoes, very British. And I think that's probably why I love meat and potatoes so much. But that was where food sort of turned to love for me. That wasn't one place.

8:16And when you were going back to the shepherd's pie that you heated up in the microwave, and, you know, I have to say that I, obviously I love people who cook. I love the idea of cooking for our children. I like the idea of sitting down to a meal. But I really have a lot of respect and admiration for women who don't, you know, who have, you know, they might have to work that night and not be able to cook. They might not have the money or they might not know how to. And so I don't judge. I'm not one of those people that says, oh, everything should be fresh and everything should be picked locally.

8:53And, you know, it's what I do. But I don't think it's politically or socially or morally right to put that pressure on people who can't do it or don't know how to do it. Where was your mom? Was she she was working at night or did she was she doing something else? My mom worked pretty hard, lived and died as secretary. But obviously, she was the only, you know, it was just me and her. She was the sole breadwinner. And she had to commute, drive into the San Fernando Valley. So she had sort of an hour-plus commute each way. But I did get exposure to wonderful food. My best friend, Adam Markman, his mother, Devorah Markman, was one of these people who just went into a kitchen and was like watching an F1 driver get into an automobile.

9:37deal. She was just so one with the kitchen. And the way she expressed love was I would walk through the door and Adam and I would walk through the door and she'd just start whether she wouldn't ask us if we were under, she'd just start cooking. And it was just such obvious like affection for her. And she was so wonderful at it. And I remember for the first time thinking, wow, this taste, this salad tastes really good. Like, what did she do here? But yeah, that, that, you know, it was. What did she cook? Do you remember what she actually cooked? Do you remember the food? She would make things like I had never heard of, like salmon, you know, with some special sauce.

10:11And she'd make like a wonderful caesared salad that would have pieces of grapefruit in it. And I never thought that, oh, you know, when you're a kid, you don't make the connection that pieces of grapefruit would go in a salad. And she would make vegetables that were tolerable, like green beans with little shaved almonds. Like you start figuring out when you're that age, when you're 14 or 15, food starts to create this notion of alchemy, that strange things, unexpected things that come together, that one plus one can equal three. But it was mostly, again, about affection. You know, my best friend's mom would just, that was, we walked through the door and I didn't realize it until later in life, but that's how she expressed affection when she would start cooking.

10:55And what about your mom? Did she, if she didn't do it through food or did you, maybe when she was making that huge shepherd's pie on a Sunday night, that was an act of love, you know, for her kid who was going to come home most nights and find something to eat. Oh, it was a million things, you know, Ruthie. You know, I talk about this a lot on my podcast. I'm a 59-year-old man whose mother died 20 years ago and I'm still not over it. And the, you know, it was a million things. I don't think food is one of those ways, but my mom every morning used to come in and wake me up and she would be like, in a very hushed voice, she'd go, Scott, Scott, like trying to wake me up gently.

11:36And only a mother does that. And when I look back on it, I've registered remarkable success and prosperity. And the two catalysts for that, or if I look at the two reasons for that, is one, the generosity of California taxpayers that gave me a free accessible education at UCLA and Berkeley and started an upward spiral for me professionally. And also what any successful person has in their life. And that is I had someone in their life that was irrationally passionate about their well-being. I was more important to my mom than she was to herself. And that got expressed a million little ways every day.

12:15How do you feel about your children? Is food something that you think about expressing love? Well, I have a partner and a spouse that's an outstanding cook, and she absolutely demonstrates love for all of us. And I always say to her when she wakes me up in the morning and makes me breakfast, makes the kids breakfast, you know what it's like. Like, look, the moments we're going to remember the rest of our lives, I think for most of us that are blessed with healthy, you know, reasonable kids, you're going to remember those little nights at the banquet, eating dinner with them or roaming around a foreign place with them, with them complaining.

12:50You know, but those are the moments. That's what I say to my wife is, I'll say to her, I'll say I feel loved. and it's usually in the context of the four of us walking around some strange city together or quite frankly when she she cooks for me and the boys um so that is uh i don't cook uh but yeah it's it food is now a big part of our household a very healthy part of household and one of the things i love about london that i've noticed for all the grief london gets about food a the food i've been coming here two to five times a year for for 50 years it's gotten much better. And two, the groceries I think are actually healthier here, less preservatives.

13:30That's my sense. My sense is there's less crap and pesticides and hormones in them. So I've actually really enjoyed, I love cooking at home. For me, cooking at home means I'm at home, means I'm with people that I love and love me immensely. And so it's just like, it feels right when I'm eating out. It's usually because I'm on the road and it's wonderful. I eat in wonderful places but cooking at home means I'm with the people who care about me yeah somebody asked me the best restaurant in London other than the cafe they said what's the best restaurant I always say home you know you know I like being home and I like cooking at home and when my children come or my kids come there's a you know you know some of my grandchildren just want the same thing that they always have well there I have this restaurant I cook all these things and it's like pasta with tomato sauce and Tuscan rose potatoes and ice cream.

14:19You know, there's something that your memory, and that's what I think it does. So starting out with saying that you're going to be my guest on a podcast about food without, you know, any interest. We've already talked about food and your mother and food and your kids and food and your wife and, you know, and home. So it is meaningful, isn't it? I mean, it does have a place in our lives. A hundred percent. done. I don't, you know, we, this is something we, yeah, I think it would be impossible to ignore. It's how we spend time together. It's how we care for each other. It's moved from something we did for survival to something that's more about community.

14:56It's a way of expressing generosity. You know, I'm really into dogs and I, my, my, I now see that my dogs occasionally when they first, when they were first together and introduced to each other, they used to guard their food and get angry at each other. Now, occasionally they share their food. It's kind of how they express love. Like, okay, I'm accepting you as part of the pack or the herd or whatever the term is. But yeah, it's absolutely. And anything that brings us together that we can share in, it requires artisanship and skill. And when you're giving something to someone else and you can celebrate it, I think there's just no getting around it.

15:33And you're going to forget more about this than I'm ever going to know. I think it also talks about culture, doesn't it? You're describing walking around a foreign city with your kids. And the image of that is of keeping them safe, being together, and then experience. I don't know if you've, when you travel, but do you enjoy travel? Do you like going to a city that is mysterious or you have to learn about? Are you an explorer or do you prefer home? Oh, I do. And unfortunately, you know, now we get to do a lot of wonderful things with our kids and we go to great places. I spent so much time kind of molesting the earth because of what I did professionally.

16:13I think I've been on the road probably 150 plus days a year for the last 30 years. And I'm slowing down now since COVID. I've decided I'm not going to travel as much. But yeah, I mean, it's very simple. Do I enjoy travel? Are my kids with me? That means, you know, if my kids aren't with me, it's fine. I stay in nice places. I mean, interesting people. I like working. If my kids are with me, it means it's going to be a lot of highs and a lot of lows. But the highs are worth it. But yeah, the general observation I have around people ask me, what's the difference between living in Europe and living in the U.S.?

16:49I still think the U.S. is the best place to make money, but I think Europe is the best place to spend it. And part of that is food. There's just more of a, you walk into a restaurant, people want you to slow down there is more artisanship around food here i think it's a bigger part of the culture generally speaking um but that's part of it and i'm in a stage in my life where i want to you know not slow down a ton but i do want to slow down and some of that is is longer meals i think that when you um go to you know i was in paris recently and i was staying with a friend so i bought a sea bass and um i was in the taxi cab getting there and a taxi driver said, you know, what have you got?

17:30And I said, I just got a sea bass. And he started telling me about the way to cook it. And I thought we talk about cities having a culture of food and how Australia is so exciting because of the food culture and LA has a food culture. But when you get actually somebody who's just grown up with the smell of a bass and knowing to cook it in a kind of salt or talking about it, I think that person has been brought up with a culture of food. Did your grandmother, was she part of your life? They weren't in my life. They're all gone by the time. And my parents, and this is a good thing, smartest thing I ever did was being born in America.

18:02My parents immigrated from Scotland and England when they were young. And I was born in San Diego, but I didn't have any family around. Did your father cook? Oh, no. My father was raised in Depression-era Scotland and knew nothing, you know, absolutely no. I think a big part of the reason he's been married and divorced four times is that he couldn't survive without someone taking care of him and so no there was we're we're the least uh my at least my immediate family is the least culinary adept family you're probably going to run across so no my father doesn't cook

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19:20It may look different, but Native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly like very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for hundreds of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Teller Ornelas, who with Rutherford Falls became the first Native showrunner in television history. On the podcast Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic Con or the importance of reservation basketball.

20:02Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey guys, it's Stephanie Beatriz and Melissa Fumero and this is More Better. We are jumping right in and ready to hear from you. Your thoughts, your questions, your feelings about socks with sandals. And we're ready to share some possibly questionable advice and hot takes. God, that sucks so hard though. I'm so sorry. Can you out petty them?

20:38Can you match their pettiness for funsies? Yeah. We had so much fun last season laughing, crying, talking to some new and old friends. Remember when we were in that scene where you guys were just supposed to hug and I was standing? Oh, yeah. And I was like, can I also hug them? I'm like, this has no friends. And this time around, we are. Say it, Melissa. Should I? Say it. Getting a little more better. Oh, finally. It's all the dressing room talk you loved in season one. All the things. Because aren't we all trying to get a little more better? Listen to More Better on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

21:20Hey sis, what if I could promise you you never had to listen to a condescending finance bro tell you how to manage your money again? Welcome to Brown Ambition. This is the hard part when you pay down those credit cards. If you haven't gotten to the bottom of why you were racking up credit or turning to credit cards, you may just recreate the same problem a year from now. When you do feel like you are bleeding from these high interest rates, I would start shopping for a debt consolidation loan, starting with your local credit union, shopping around online, looking for some online lenders because they tend to have fewer fees and be more affordable.

21:53Listen, I am not here to judge. It is so expensive in these streets. I 100 % can see how in just a few months you can have this much credit card debt and it weighs on you. It's really easy to just like stick your head in the sand. It's nice and dark in the sand. Even if it's scary, it's not going to go away just because you're avoiding it. And in fact, it may get even worse. For more judgment-free money advice, listen to Brown Ambition on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. When you left home, you're just describing very movingly coming home to your mother and her making you the roast.

22:26But when you were living in apartments or you were just starting out or you had an independence, would you just eat out all the time? So food for me, again, food for me growing up, I played sports, but my problem was I was too skinny. And so, like I said, when I joined crew at UCLA, I was put on a diet where I was supposed to eat eight packs of ramen, six bananas a day, these protein shakes. I was just over, they told me you got to massively increase your calorie intake. and I joined a fraternity at UCLA and the fraternity was mostly young men from the San Fernando Valley who came from affluent homes.

23:07And during rush week, they would all talk about how awful the food was. And I got there and I thought the food was amazing. So it's all about your benchmark. The fact that there was someone cooking for us and it was like reasonable food, I thought it was just incredible. So I think a lot of it is just your expectations. But my first experience with food was in the fraternity. where a woman, Mean Gene the Cooking Machine is what we called her. I remember thinking the food was amazing. Do you remember what it was? Oh, it was really basic. I mean, it was like pancakes and pastrami sandwiches. I mean, you're cooking food for 110, 21-year-old men.

23:46I mean, this was not the River Cafe. this was this was how do I get these men fed and back to school on as little money as possible and like I said I thought I had died and gone to heaven I thought the food was amazing and while all my friends from affluent households whose mothers were probably wonderful cooks thought it was just I thought it was amazing they did not think so it's all your benchmark it's like what's your secret to a good marriage low expectations right so I don't know what you you think about low expectations a friend of mine had trouble with her mother and i said well you know you're going to visit you know maybe you should just lower your expectations and she said i don't want to i don't want to lower my expectations i want those expectations to stay there i find my relationships got a lot better um especially when you lowered them well it's just so my dad i haven't talked about my dad um my dad wasn't what i'd call an especially engaged father, divorced four times, moved away when he and my mom got divorced.

24:49I saw him kind of on holidays, not that engaged in my life. But he was also a much better father to me than his father was to him, which when you think about it, that is the basis of evolution. You check a big box when you're better to your kids than your parents were to you because that's your model. And I just decided at some point, rather than keeping score around whether my dad could have a better dad or not, imagine like, what kind of son do I want to be? And the answer is I want to be a generous and loving son. So I'm going to stop keeping score. And I find that stopping, putting away the scorecard, whether it's your friends, your mates, your parents, your relationships gets much, much healthier when you decide what kind of friend, partner, spouse, son do I want to be and put away the scorecard because it's human nature to inflate your contributions and deflate theirs.

25:42And so you're always going to be unhappy, or I think a lot of people would be unhappy. And my life has just gotten so much better when I think to myself, I'd like to be just a generous, awesome friend and be supportive. And if I'm on the right side of things, that's okay. If I can contribute more than I get from it, that's nice. Now, if a relationship becomes abusive, you're getting nothing from it. I'm also a big believer in pairing relationships. I don't think you have to collect and always maintain every relationship. But yeah, the scorecard, I don't want to call it low expectations, but just deciding who you want to be in that relationship and putting away the scorecard has been hugely beneficial to me.

26:22Listening to you speak and listening, you know, actually most nights or most mornings, you do really do talk a lot about the importance of love and of friendship. In the restaurant, It's kind of equalizer when somebody comes in and they sit down at the table. And I always say to the waiter, just imagine that somebody might have saved up to come here. Or they might have had a loss before they walked in. Or they might have gotten lost. There's so many things that happen in a restaurant that you watch the dynamic of people sitting together. Most people are really grateful for being there. You know, they thank me or they thank the waiter.