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Ruthie's Table 4 - Episode Summary: Zoe Saldaña
Podcast Overview Podcast Title: Ruthie's Table 4 Host: Ruthie Rogers Episode Title: Zoe Saldaña Description: In this episode, Ruthie Rogers sits down with actress Zoe Saldaña at The River Cafe to discuss food, family, and culture, while sharing personal memories and recipes.
Key Themes
Food as a Central Element in Life
- Culinary Memories: Zoe discusses how food is intertwined with her memories and heritage, particularly from her Dominican background.
- Cultural Significance: Food is portrayed as a medium for expressing love, sharing heritage, and celebrating familial bonds.
- Cooking as Comfort: Zoe emphasizes how cooking and certain foods provide comfort, especially during times of emotional struggle.
Personal Stories and Family Heritage
- Childhood and Family: Zoe shares her experiences of growing up in New Jersey and the Dominican Republic after her father's tragic death. She speaks fondly of her grandmother's cooking, which played a significant role in her family life.
- Cultural Transition: Reflecting on her transition from the U.S. to the Dominican Republic, Zoe illustrates how food helped her adapt and connect with her roots.
- Cooking Techniques: Zoe shares her method for making the perfect rice and discusses various traditional soups from the Dominican Republic, highlighting the importance of using fresh, local ingredients.
The Influence of Dance and Art
- Dance as a Form of Expression: Zoe recounts how dance became a vital outlet for her during a tumultuous period of her adolescence, helping her cope with grief and find her identity.
- Artistic Environment: The conversation also touches on Zoe's journey in the arts, including her transition from dance to acting and the support she received from her family.
The Role of Family and Grandparenting
- Grandparental Influence: Zoe reflects on the special relationship she had with her grandparents, emphasizing the traditions and values they instilled in her that she wishes to pass down to her children.
- Cooking for Children: As a mother, Zoe shares how she nurtures her children through cooking, making healthy meals from scratch to create lasting memories and healthy eating habits.
Current Projects
- Film Discussions: Zoe briefly discusses her recent work, including her film "Emilia Pérez," and the significance of the roles she portrays, which resonate with her personal experiences and cultural identity.
Key Takeaways
- Food as Identity: The episode underscores how food serves as a powerful link to one's cultural identity and family legacy.
- Emotional Connections: Meals are not just about nutrition; they symbolize love, connection, and comfort during life's challenges.
- Culinary Practices: Zoe’s approach to cooking reflects a desire to maintain traditions and provide her family with wholesome, meaningful food experiences.
- Artistic Expression in Life: Both cooking and performing arts are depicted as vital forms of self-expression and avenues for healing.
Conclusion In this engaging episode, Ruthie Rogers and Zoe Saldaña explore the profound impact of food on personal identity, family connections, and cultural heritage. The conversation highlights the importance of cooking as a means of preserving memories and fostering relationships, demonstrating that food transcends mere sustenance to become a celebration of life itself.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00This is an iHeart Podcast.
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0:48That's why over 200 ,000 happy customers have made the switch. Upgrade your space today. Visit washablesofas.com now and bring home a sofa made for life. That's washablesofas.com. Offers are subject to change, and certain restrictions may apply. You are listening to Ruthie's Table 4 in partnership with Montclair. One of Zoe Saldana's mantras in life is feel the fear and do it anyway. And what hasn't she done? She dances, she acts, she sings, she speaks several languages, and I think she loves to cook. Imagine my surprise a couple of months ago in October, standing outside my office, laptop and cookbooks in hand, with a large sign on the door saying, Do not disturb.
1:35And the reason for this wasn't a meeting with accountants or a broken radiator, but the fact that Zoe Saldana was changing into her dress for a lunch downstairs to celebrate the release of her brilliant new movie, Amelia Perez. After lunch, I took her hand and walked her to her car, talking about how to make the perfect rice. A few minutes later, we'd agreed to do a podcast together. And since then, it's been quite a time for Zoe. I've seen her everywhere, on screens and newspapers, magazines and posters. And I'm thrilled that last month she won a Golden Globe. And in February and March, she's a contender for both a BAFTA and an Oscar.
2:15A lot has happened, and a lot is going to happen. But right now, what's happening is that Zoe is here with me on a Saturday morning in the River Cafe. It's our chance to sit down and talk about food, food and memories, food and family. No fear, just happiness and love. That was so beautiful. Well, it's true. It was such a quick meeting, wasn't it? It was. It was Netflix was giving you lunch. Do you remember it? Yeah. Yeah. And you just reminded me we were talking about rice, about making rice. Nice, and we should have cooked rice today. Well, we did. We cooked some right now. To make the perfect rice.
2:56Tell me how you make it. What is the perfect rice? It's very simple. We saute our rice before we put the water in. So you put your pot on the stove. You wait for it to get nice and warm. You add the oil. Sometimes you can add the salt over the oil, or you can just wait until you put the rice, the washed rice, rinsed. You put your rinsed rice in it. You saute it for at least two to three minutes. Make sure that it cooks a little bit. And then you put the water. So you wait for all that water to almost evaporate on very high heat. And then when it evaporates, then that's when you close your pot.
3:36And you then put the fire on simmer for 20 to 30 minutes. With no liquid in there. No, because the rice has already soaked up all the water. The rice has expanded and it's nice and kind of fluffy, but it's still very, very ardente. And then you cover it and you allow its own steam to cook it all the way into its cellular sort of component. And then you can have your rice. A certain type of rice or just a long grain? A long grain. A long grain. We don't necessarily cook with arborio unless we're making a soup that carries rice, like a porridge in it. Yeah. And we do. In the Caribbean, we make a lot of soups.
4:17Every island has at least five or six soups. Tell me about soups. You divert from the rice to the soups. Well, we make soups with provisions, which are those root vegetables from yuca, nyame, jowtia. I don't know the names in English, so please forgive me. And then also the plantains. Some of them can have plantains and potatoes. And you either choose what kind of meat, Either it can be beef or pork or chicken. Sometimes you can also do a fish stew or a shrimp stew, a hard shell stew. And you cook all of those things down with really important greens that add so much flavor. And I think you guys use it a lot here in England, the culantro.
5:05It's a coriander, I believe it's called. Yeah, yeah. which in Spanish we call it cilantro ancho, because the cilantro that they use in Central and South America is the small-leaf one that looks really like a four-leaf clover. But the ones that we use in the Caribbean is the really long leaf that when you slap it and you open up all of its pores and you put it into water or your tea or a broth, It's the most pungent smell and fragrance and taste. So that's how I grew up, just making stews of all type, soups. But would they vary from the winter soups to the summer soups? Was it seasonal? We'll make soup on the hottest day of summer, and it's always summer in the Caribbean.
5:53But it cools you off as you're having something that's really hot and sometimes spicy. In Dominican Republic, we're not really known for eating spicy, spicy food. You can, but it's not something that is innate in our culture, like it would be, for instance, in Mexico. But we do a lot of soups. And when you're having your soup on a very hot day, it just compels you to cool off. It's like having a hot tea. And I just love it. So it must have been quite, in many ways, your early childhood, which you were born in. I was born in New Jersey, Passaic, New Jersey. And I lived in New York because my family has been in New York since the 1960s.
6:34And I lived there until I was 10. And then when my father unexpectedly, just tragically died in a car accident, he's 38, he was still a kid. Then we all fly and we move to where they're from in Dominican Republic, which is where I'm from, at the root of my origin. And it was beautiful. Dominican Republic and the Caribbean, Puerto Rico and Dominican Republic used to be places that we used to go to during the Christmas holiday and the summers. Oh, I see. So you knew it. Of course we did. And you had family. Yes, and we spoke Spanish at the house, but you speak English already at school. So I'm very much a one-generation child in New York where you code switch automatically and you don't even know what that means.
7:20And you eat rice and beans with your grandparents on Sundays. I was going to ask you, did your grandparents live with you in New York? Yes, yes. Yeah, so both sets or? Yes, both sets. Did they go back with you when you went back? Yes. We used to, well, growing up, I used to travel mainly with my grandparents. And that's, you know, in our culture, I guess that was their version of giving like my parents a break. Yeah. So for two weeks, you know, they would fly with us ahead, you know, two weeks in advance. we would sort of take it all in from the gaze of your grandparents, of your nonos, your abuelos, and then your parents would arrive with a great tan.
8:00They probably would go somewhere and reconnect. And two weeks later, we were all together. We would spend the whole summer in Dominican Republic. A lot of people that I talk to, especially from different cultures, different family groups, talk a lot about their grandparents, almost more about their grandparents cooking than their parents. And as a mother, and now I'm a grandparent, I was saying last night at dinner that I really noticed the difference in the way that I cook for my children and the way I cook for my grandchildren. When you're cooking for your children, very often you're just trying to get food on the table because you've worked all day or you're going out that night or you want to see them, but they're more important things to do than to perhaps spend hours cooking for them.
8:44but um when you're a grandparent there's so much you just want to bring the culture you want to cook the food that they'll remember it's part of the memory did you feel that with your oh my god absolutely what you're saying just makes me want to cry I just um there's just so much love that my grandmother put in every dish that uh that she was born where my grandmother was born in Dominican Republic in 1935 under the dictatorship of Trujillo dictator that that was in power for over 30 years. She was born and she was raised under this dictatorship, got married, had her daughter, my mom. And then in 1961, after the assassination of this tyrant, they were granting passages, visas, work visas to Dominicans.
9:32And my grandmother was, I guess, in the first or couple of waves of Dominicans that arrived in New York in 1961. And would later then populate that uptown region of Manhattan, which is now known as Washington Heights, which is basically, it's all very much the biggest Dominican diaspora outside of the Dominican Republic is in Washington Heights and Manhattan. And my grandmother was one of those, I would say, first arrivers, you know, and worked. She was a seamstress, and she worked in factories and for some fashion houses throughout, you know, those first two decades of her life there. How old was her daughter?
10:19My mother must have been, my mom was born in 56, so she must have been five when my grandmother arrived in New York. But my mother stayed behind with her grandparents, with my grandmother's parents in Santo Domingo. And then in the summer, she would go to New York and spend it with my grandmother until she was 14. And at that age, that's when my grandmother then moved my mom and her parents to New York. By the time I was born and we were living in New York, my great-grandparents had already sort of flown and moved back and retired in the Dominican Republic. But they would always visit. So I remember every time they would visit, like, every three months.
10:57We were a family that was always on a plane. And still today, I've always been on a plane. And they would open up the suitcases, and they would bring from Dominican Republic, like, their plantains and their cheese. It's like we have a version of, like, a jalloumi cheese that you fry. That is the most delicious thing. Tell me, Ben. What's it? Oh, that cheese. It's just called quesofrito. Yeah. You know, and they call it quesofrito. I don't know if it's called something else. but they would bring it, the blocks of it, and the moment she would open that suitcase and that cheese would pop out, she was immediately slicing it and throwing it in a hot, sizzling pan.
11:34And then the salami. You know, there was this company, and Dominican Republic is still there. It's one of the biggest salami companies. We eat a lot of salami, but we fry our salami. We don't really eat it as a charcuterie, like, you know, cold and stuff. We can, but not this particular salami. This one is frito. This one is fried. And we would just eat that as a snack. And then the plantains were, you know, I think we've inherited the eating of plantains from our African sort of origins. And you boil the plantains and you mash them with butter and salt. And you eat them and they make it into like a paste.
12:14And it's called like a mangou, which I know that in Africa and certain countries they call it like a fufu, right? But we call it mangou. and you put then the fried salami and the fried cheese and you grill some pickled onions over it. And we just... I'm starving here. I think we're all... The smell... Why don't we just go in the kitchen? Forget the interview. Let's do it. Let's do it. But the smell of that in our kitchen meant that, that, you know, Abuelita from Dominican Republic was in town. And we would, for the whole two weeks as she was visiting with us, my great-grandmother, we knew that we were going to eat well.
12:47And she would sometimes go to the markets. certain markets in Queens, or she would venture out and sometimes go out of their downtown to Manhattan or go to Brooklyn and she would buy the coconuts, like really good coconuts that they would bring from the Caribbean. What would she do with coconut? Desserts. Desserts. All types of macaroons. And she would make like these biscuits that we call coconetes and she would make those, or she would grab a spoon, a very big spoon. And my grandmother, my great grandmother was a, you know, she was just like a very simple woman and there was nothing she could do.
13:22You know, and she would scrape the coconut sort of meat out of the coconut and it would kind of curl up. She would scrape it and she would curl it up and then she would put it on a pan with sugar and baking soda and vanilla and she would let that cook down and then it would dry up and then And she would divide in these little, like, rolls. It was our version of the Mecca. Did she have recipes? Did she just do it? It was all here. It was all here. And she was a feisty lady. By the time I was born, she was already a great grandma. So she was just, like, very feisty, like a really gritty woman, you know?
13:58And she would grab everything with her hand. There was one story, though, that the biggest culture shock for us, when we moved to Dominican Republic, was just how— When you were after your father died. Yeah, was just how closely we lived with nature. You know, like she had her garden in the back, so she would get all her herbs and fruits and everything from her backyard. And she would come in. And this was, it's kind of like when you gave me the tour in your kitchen. There wasn't a written menu. She would make the meatballs from scratch. You know, she would grind the meat. She had her grinder.
14:33I remember like, oh, the grinder's out. She would like, it was like a transformer. It came like a Lego piece. She would like put it all together, screw it up. and just put the salami and the meat, the ribeye, the cheese, and she would just grind that. And then I would sit there and she would be like, come on, wash your hands. And she would put like oil on my hands and then we would make meatballs. And I was like, oh, my God. And then you try these meatballs and they were just, I haven't had a meatball like hers. Oh, you should make it. Yes. While you remember, it's part already. I have a different, I have a Hungarian grandmother.
15:08Oh, wow. And the story is that she traveled with her rolling pin, that whenever she came to visit, she'd come up just 100 miles from New York and she'd bring the rolling pin. And the famous story in our family was that she came to see her first grandson, my mother's, my older brother. And she came, it's quite a long trip, and she got to the door and they said, would you like to come and see your grandson? And she said, let's eat first. And we got our priorities. But what we're talking really about is, you know, to see your face light up, to see your memories, to feel and hear you is that food is so important.
15:45It's so important. What else are we going to ask her to make us? Salted codfish, you know. She would also make like a curd milk dessert that was so good. And I think that the moment my great grandmother passed away, I stopped eating desserts. Because the only, I don't, I have a savory tooth. I don't have a sweet tooth. As, you know, but only for hers. I would eat any desserts that she would make. And then she got sick with Alzheimer's when I was 16. Yeah. And she sort of slipped away from us mentally quite rapidly. And then we took care of her for 11 years. And I just remember looking at her when I was 19 or 20.
16:33I was like, I'm never going to try anything your hand's ever made. And that was, I remember I cried a lot when that sort of realization hit me. And she's right in front of me, and I was just painting her nails, just to distract her. And I just looked at her, and I was like, it's over. But she was an artist. She was. What you're talking about is one of those who's creative. An illusionist, a magician. The creativity going in there. And now, probably, maybe if she'd been at a different time, she might have been a chef. I think so. She might have given the pleasure that she gave to you as a grandmother, as one of the women in the kitchen right now.
17:09I know. I had that option to say, well, actually, this is what I love in my work. I know. And this is what I'm going to create. I always think that cooking is a bit like art, except art lasts forever. It does. And then somebody eats that lemon tart you've worked hours over, and it's gone. It's for your grandmother. You can, my great-grandmother. Your great-grandmother. You can make those memories last forever. You have to pass it down. I have a picture of my grandmother in my kitchen. She's the first person I see. And the last I say goodnight to. And by keeping a picture of her, we are keeping her alive.
17:47Because my sons, they won't have the experience that I had with my grandmother and my great-grandmother. They lost their great-grandmother really young. So it's in the stories I do tell them.
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19:54Going back to going to the Dominican Republic at an early age, you discovered the food. You were in a place you knew, but in a different place, a different school. And was it also that you found that by eating and discovering food, but also by dancing, that you were able to, you know, the tragedy of your father's life, the difficulty of living in a foreign country. How did dance affect you? Well, the foreign aspect of Dominican Republic sort of dissipated within the first couple of years because we are innately where our families come from. That's just undeniable. dance became at a really important time in my life because trying to fit in and find my placement right when you're going into like your early teenage years in terms of who am i what am i why am i and so going through all of that when it comes to discovering your identity while mourning the death of a very big figure in your life, the biggest figure in your life, was your 10.
21:04What's he like? Oh, my dad was incredible. He played the guitar. He played the accordion. He was a very naturally curious person, very smart for business, danced very well. He and my mom, they could have been arguing, but they would just get up and kind of like not face each other and still like dance at all the birthday parties. And you're like, how could they do that? We're like sitting under a table, just like marveling at just the polar opposites of emotions that are being displayed in this beautiful, passionate dance that they're doing, which is merengue or salsa. And they're just not looking at each other.
21:48And she would be like by his left shoulder, like smoking her cigarette, Like, do-do-do, do-do-do. And if he would turn to face her, she would do-do-do-do. Do-do-do-do. And now I know that I'm like, that night must have been banging for them because you'd know that they were making love while they were dancing still. But my dad was the one that taught my mom how to cook. Because my mom, growing up as a single child with her grandparents while her mom was working in New York, my mom had everything made for her. She was spoiled by her grandparents. They gave her everything. She wore the best little outfits because my great-grandmother, my mother, and my grandmother were both seamstresses.
22:30So they would make everything from scratch. And she just had the best little outfits. So by the time she met my dad, she couldn't even boil an egg. And my dad was this, could have been a chef. Oh, really? He was that good. Oh, my God. He would make just, he would grill fish. He would grill meats. He would make the best beans, the best desserts. He knew he was a baker, like just like a very self-made kind of guy, you know. And even though they had different upbringings, my dad was just a lot more self-sufficient, more independent than my mom. And my mom then, you know, he taught her. So everything that she does for us, it always comes with a memory of like, no, your dad used to make this in the middle of the night when I was pregnant with you guys and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
23:16And so I, at least I live with the memories that she has been able to share with us, you know, cause when you're 10, you remember just 10 years, you documented 10 years and that's enough to me, for me to last a lifetime. He was really on top of just hygiene and preparation and with his Sergio Valente jeans and his Calvin Klein like sweater. And my mom still remembers that. So I know I wasn't making it up and I wasn't making this all fantastical. She was like, no, that's the man that smelled the best I've ever met anybody. Did you dance with him? I would stand on his feet. I come from a family, and I do know this, that it's a cultural thing.
23:57We dance. We dance at funerals. We dance at births. We dance, if you failed a test, we danced if you passed it. You know what I mean? You just dance, and you dance merengue, and you dance salsa. And neighbors all, they can be doctors or architects, but they know how to play the congas and they know how to play the drums and they'll come with a trumpet and everybody sits in someone's backyard. And you can see it even. Puerto Rico is the same. Cuba is the same. Dominican Republic is very much that way. So I grew up just, and there's always, everything is always a reason to have a party. It's somebody's baptism and you sort of go, why are we having this parade?
24:36Like, no, no, it's a baptism. And you're like, but he's four. You're like, it's the biggest party can last 16 hours. And so I grew up always seeing great-grandparents, grandparents, aunts and uncles, cousins, teenagers, dancing, everybody always dancing. So we danced. You did ballet as well. Yes, yes. Well, that transition into dance was very different from what you do at home, right? It was therapy. It was medicine for my soul. Yes, because I wasn't really acclimating enough. I just wasn't. In the Dominican Republic, yeah. Yeah, my mom says that we were. But I think it was just grieving. We were just, we were grieving.
25:15It was something, what happened to us was very traumatic. And children don't really describe trauma. They don't really say, I am going through something right now. They either shut down or they overreact. They just, whatever it is, they're just not themselves. And that's the sign. That's the indication that they've experienced trauma and they're still like in a state of shock. So ballet for you was what? Ballet became my outlet, my place, my safe haven. I would go to after school. It was an environment that I can go and test myself and challenge myself and learn something new. So when you're learning something new, that takes a lot of your attention and your time.
25:56And that's what I needed. I needed a lot to put all of my attention, all of my time into something that was going to give me some kind of release and relief. And ballet did that. and almost became an obsession. I was very blessed in the sense that throughout my life, I had really great role models that took my mom, my sisters, and I in, and either by cooking a meal or teaching us something, we were taken in and we were told that we can believe in ourselves, that we can believe in love again, that we can believe in life again, that we can do this, and we began our healing process. But it didn't come that quickly.
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26:36It's a kind of rigor, isn't it? When you're following a recipe or you're learning how to do first position, second position, that rigor of discipline of doing something allows you then to come be free. Yeah, absolutely. And it gave me a confidence that I was beginning to lose. Studies show that children, when they enter middle school, which is what we were kind of about to, we were still in elementary school when he passed away, but in the first couple of years after he was gone, we were entering middle school. that's around the time when children start losing their confidence. And I'm just happy that ballet didn't allow me to lose it completely.
27:13And you went to New York? You went back to New York? When I was 17. So from 10 to 17, I was in Dominican Republic. By the time we were 14, 15 years old, we were beachheads. We were just, like, surfing. We were, you have a bad day, you go to the beach. Yeah, your boyfriend breaks up with you, you go to the beach. You know what I mean? And so we were always at the beach. We were always dancing. We were always at school, ballet, learning languages. That sort of, you know, and then my mom found love again also when we were in Dominican Republic by reconnecting with a childhood friend. And that began to also, she began to kind of step out of her spell because my mom was in a really bad depression after my dad passed away for, I would say, like two to four years after he passed.
28:03And then she found love and they're still together, still married. Was that nice for you? Huh? Was that good for you? Yes. I was 14, I think, when they reconnected. And they're still together. and he became my father. Yeah, he is. He's a really good father and a really great husband, and he's funny and he's geeky and he dances really great. So to see that my mom also was able to regain a good dancing partner because dancing is really a part of who we are a lot. So making that into a profession for yourself when you came back, did you go to Julia? No, no, no, no, no. I danced in a little academy in Queens that I had to take a train and two buses for every day after school.
28:50It wasn't the same. I still kept at it for, I would say, two more years. By the time I was 18, about to be 19, I had already kind of started meddling with acting. So you went to auditions. Tell us about how— Just one thing led to another. I knew nothing about anything. I just knew that I was going to dance. And I guess once I graduate high school, maybe I'll go to SUNY Purchase if I'm lucky enough and I really want to pursue this. Maybe I'll go to Yale and master in some kind of dance or psychology. And so I was starting to already think about that and working with the dean in your high school and everything.
29:32But deep, deep down, I had no desire of doing any of those things. because I realized I had reached my glass ceiling in ballet. Oh, in ballet. And I wasn't able to shatter it. I just, I didn't have the feet. And I was getting really tired of just punishing myself for not being good enough. And I had too much hunger in me that just being in the core of a company wasn't going to cut it for me. If it cuts it for other people, I wished I was more like other people at that time, other dancers, but I wasn't. And I would pass by all these little theaters. When I was in Manhattan, my mom would only let me go with my sister to Capizio, to the store in 57th and Columbus, to go buy my shoes and go buy some leotards whenever I was running out.
30:19And then it was like, and you come straight back. I hop on the train and come straight back to Queens. But they were holding these auditions, and there was this little sign. Did you see all the signs? Yeah, it was on the basement of this brownstone uptown. And it said, New York Youth Theater holding auditions for The Wiz. And I looked at my sister, who at the time, she was smoking cigarettes. And she wasn't supposed to. So obviously, she brings me into the city. She buys her pack of cigarettes. And she's just smoking away as she's being my chaperone. And I'm like, Mariel, can I go check this out really quickly?
30:54And then we take the train and we'll go home. And she's like, looks at her cigarette and kind of goes, yeah, sure. And then puts it out. We go inside. We audition. She auditioned as well. No, no, no. She was there, signs me up and everything. But mind you, she's only a year older. It's not like she's much older than I am. But we were always partners in crime, my sisters and I. I auditioned for it, and I get called back. For the Wiz. Yes. But it was like a small little off, off, off Broadway. Can you imagine the other side to this story? These probably guys and actors standing there. This little girl, she's walked off the street.
31:30She wants to audition. Okay, you know, we'll do it. We have to do it. And it's you. Oh, yeah. And they were so nice. Call her back. They called me back. I remember waiting for that phone call every time the phone in my house would ring. I'd be like, I got it. I got it. Hello? You know, and finally it was them. And I think my sister took the call. And she said, they're calling you back. So now we have to tell our parents. So I remember we did. I waited for my mom to come home from work. And I was like, well, don't be upset. But I did audition for this place, and I got called back. And she was just like, OK.
32:10What about ballet? I'm like, well, I don't know. They're just calling me for a callback. It's like, what's a callback? I didn't even know what a callback was. What's a callback? I guess it's just the second round. It's not like I got it. It's just the second round. I'm so sorry. And then at this point, my mom takes off from work. And she takes me with my sister for the callbacks. And I remember I'm reading for the role of the scarecrow. Guys, I sucked so bad. I hate my lines. But I can dance. I can do whatever. And my mom leans over to my sister and says, oh, boy. I guess it's what she wants to do because I guess I was really bad at the audition.
32:48Because they're watching it. They're sitting in the theater. And they're allowing the parents to watch the children because we're all minors. I was 17. Yeah, I was 17. and um and my mom was like oh boy man okay this is what she wants to do so then they we all went back to the house when I booked it I didn't book the role of the scarecrow but I booked to be like in the core we go back and it's the news now we've told my grandmother my stepdad my younger sister oh my god and and but we're looking at the schedule if I take off from work then you can take Zoe then maybe I'll pick her up so at this point we're all we've always been a team but we realized that with all my ballet commitments and I had a recital, there was just no way that I could do it without failing this academy, which had granted me a scholarship to dance.
33:33So what happened? I called them up and I said, I can't do it. Thank you so much. I realized that my commitments with ballet are far greater and I just can't really do it. But my younger sister can. And they were like, well, I'm like, she looks just like me. People think we're twins and she used to dance. And at that time, my sister was going through like a really hard time, just 16 years old, can't fit in. Theater just gave her what ballet had given me in my early years. Did they give her the pork? They did. And she started doing, you know, she did The Wiz and she did Bye Bye Birdie. Then she did Jesus Christ Superstar.
34:08Then she did a whole bunch of productions with this theater company for, I would say like five, six years. So all until like her, like 20, until she was like 20 years old or 21. What about you? I joined, once I stopped dancing, then I joined this other theater group in Brooklyn. And then they hired me. I did it through like an internship program from school. And then after I graduated high school, then they gave me a job with full coverage. I was 18. So I'm in this theater group in Brooklyn. My sister's the one in Broadway, in Manhattan. So she's the one with all the jazz hands and bye, bye, birdie.
34:48And I'm writing skits about urban life and domestic violence and drug addiction with a whole bunch of kids and this other. And we're performing in hospitals and high schools and jails. Like I went to Sing Sing to perform, you know, with this theater troupe. And I loved it because it was raw. It was awesome. But it was just dangerous. My mom just didn't want me going to Brooklyn. So one day she tells my sister, just convince her, because I was also dating a guy that didn't want me dating, whatever. Just convince her to audition for Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat at your theater. And then we'll get her out of Brooklyn.
35:23What year would this have been? I think I was like 19. It all happened really fast. This was 1997. So I auditioned and I booked the role of Mrs. Potiphar. And I really had fun. And I decided to stay with the production and with my sister, who at that point was doing more production work than being on stage because she's always had a good eye. And there was a manager in the room and signed me and started sending me out immediately for soap operas and shows like episodics and commercials. And I started booking things left and right. You'd left home by then or were you living still at home? No, no, no, no, no.
36:10Oh, my God, no. We're such a, I'm still living with my parents. Yeah, exactly, yeah, yeah, yeah. So you were still being cooked for, I'm getting to the food. Yes. Oh, my grandmother. At this point, my grandmother was always with us and her husband. And they lived, you know, my mom and my grandmother always lived within a block from each other or in the next building of each other. And that's how we grew up in Queens, where I would open the window of my bedroom and go, Abuela! and she would open her window que and you would go bendición bendición is how you greet all of your elders you say bless me and then they always respond may God bless you that's how you greet them and that's how you say goodnight in Spain you do it as well la bendición que Dios te bendiga todos los días, todos los días and abuela que bendición que Dios te bendiga, tengo hambre and then she would literally come over from her apartment in her PJs and come inside our apartment.
37:13What do you want? It's like, papa, mango, sopita.
37:21The River Cafe Winter Set Lunch is now running from Monday to Thursday. Reserve a booking on www.rivercafe.co.uk or give us a call.
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38:20Plus, they're earth-friendly and trusted by over 200 ,000 happy customers. It's time to upgrade to a stress-free, mess-proof sofa. Visit washablesofas.com today and save. That's washablesofas.com. Offers are subject to change, and certain restrictions may apply. Parking shouldn't slow you down. ParkWiz gives every driver a shortcut. Book ahead, save up to 50%, and skip the hassle of circling the block. Park smarter, park faster. ParkWiz. Download the ParkWiz app today and save every time you park. Did you ever have an apartment by yourself? I did. I learned to cook. Yeah, okay. I remember I started doing pepper steak.
39:01I would make pepper steak all the time. I'm like, what is it with pepper steak? Like, I would just make pepper steak, pepper steak. And my mom is like, OK, great. So now why don't you learn to make beans? And I remember I called her. I'm like, oh, my God, are you sitting down? I figured out a way to make beans that I don't think you've ever done before. And she's like, let's hear it, you know? And she's like, well, I'm like, Mom, I do the sofrito on the side. And then I put it into the beans. And she was just like, Zoe, that's great, baby. That is so awesome. I'm so proud of you. But I remember, I'm like, so you can remember this, that when you were appearing on stage and you were doing it, the pride came also in the cooking.
39:43Yes, yes, because even though I was living in Tribeca, so a little far from Queens, I was getting like homesick. Were you dating a lot? Were you going out with people? I was. The next question is connected. I was a serial monogamer. I should have been more wild, you know, But I was always in relationships. But would you ever date somebody who didn't care about food? Could you imagine being in love with somebody who wasn't? No. Yeah. No. I always would fall for the guys that were homebodies, that were close to their families, that were very, you know, they liked to be home and cozy. So tell us about the man that you finally fell for, your husband.
40:24He's Italian? Yes, and he's a single child, and he's Italian. And so the sun rises and sets on Marco Perego, and he looks like the Catholic's version of Jesus Christ for a reason. He is sensitive and super just kind. He's the kindest person I've ever met in my life. And he cooks. And he grew up in Paraguay? Lake Garda. Lake Garda. Lago de Garda. His family, they owned a little restaurant and a cafe. And at one point they owned a bar. Is it still there? No, no, no. They're in L.A. with us. They're in the States because he's an only child. So for me, it just made sense that I wanted my kids to grow up with their grandparents from both sides the way that I grew up with mine.
41:12Because I honestly feel that more than half of who I am was defined by the love that I received, the unconditional love that I received by my grandparents and great-grandparents. And so tell us about your cooking world with children. With him, well, Marco. Do you have two sons? Three, three boys. Three sons. But Marco was definitely an Italian, you know, Gandhi, charming pirate when I met him, you know? And I just, I remember he was always like, cara mia, ba-ba-ba-ba-ba. And I'm like, I'm from Queens, New York. I'm just like, come on, where's your voice, Cogno? Because he was always like, hey, ciao.
41:50Is he an actor? Pecce, no, he's an artist, multidisciplinary. He's a sculptor and a painter and a conceptual artist. and now he's a director. But he does everything. Marco just lives in art. And that's really, he creates, exactly. And I just remember when we met, I was always so hard. And he was like, I want to take you to Capri and to Napoli and I want you to try the best pizza in the world. And I'm like, are you kidding me? The best pizza on Prince Street. You know, I was like, come on, kid. What are you talking about? And I just remember we go to Napoli. We do the whole thing. We eat the pizza frita.
42:20It's amazing. And then cut to like a week later, we're on some sidewalk in New York and we're having a slice of pizza. And he looks at me, he goes, Zee, without a doubt, a New York slice is the best in the world. And I'm like, papi, I told you. Come on, come on, man. I know you got Italy, but I got New York, baby. I have a friend who has a group of friends, and they go out every once a month finding the best pizza place in New York. They've come up with one in Jersey. They love. They have. Oh, there's one in Jersey? Yeah, yeah, I'll find out. You got to tell me. I will, because another friend of mine, did it as well.
42:55They kind of like this place. I think it's in Jersey City. Do you like Italy? I do. I love it. Now it's home for me. It's half of who I am. Yeah. Where do you go when you're there? My favorite region is Liguria. There's something really beautiful about the Italian Riviera. Do you go to the Cinco Terra? Yes, Cinco Terra. We rented a house one time in Sestri Levante in the middle of summer just to see all these Italian families come from all over Italy to vacation in Sestri Levante, which is, you know, it's close to Cinco Terra. It's just 40 minutes from Portofino, Santa Margarita. But it's like a melting pot of this beautiful socioeconomic, you know, communities.
43:39And so very working class, very upper class, but they're all together on the beach taking their kids to the fair. So we love doing that. We definitely always go to Lago de Garda to visit the family who's still there and in other towns that are neighboring to Lago de Garda. Milan is always a place where we, we're just there. We land in Milan and from there we drive everywhere. We've been in Florence, all through Tuscany, Rome. I need to explore Rome more because I'm a little, now that my husband is from the north, I'm a little northerner now. So I'm always like, it's so south. I don't know. It's like, it's so hot and there's too many people.
44:14But Marco loves Rome. And there's something really beautiful about the Italian culture that you can ask a little four-year-old. Yeah, but how does your nonna make your pasta? La pasta, la nonna, ba-ba-ba-ba. And they tell you all the ingredients. I'm like, how could a four-year-old little boy know how to make this pasta? And it's like 30 ,000 dishes with four simple ingredients. And they just are so versatile. and so the Italian cuisine in its simplicity for me it's one of the best cuisines in the world it's just so beautiful and there's so much love in it there's just so much love and I don't know I just think that it made sense we have to go and have lunch soon but before we do Amelia Perez we should talk about that that's how we met we met over a movie and you are deeply involved in the season for the prizes but the making of it it would be interesting to feel just being on that movie, what it meant to you.
45:15I was so excited. It is not the first time I've worked in Paris. I did parts of a film that I was in called Colombiana years before in Paris and the sound stages, same sound stages that I did. Where are they? Are they outside? Yeah, they're like 40 minutes outside of the center of Paris. It was super great. The French hours are very much like Italian hours. They don't like to overwork. So it's not like the English and the US Americans. We're like, 14 hours, not enough. Let's keep shooting. And you're like, wait, wait, we've done eight. It's enough. Because I always hear French hours being the way you eat as well.
45:50Is it called French hours when you don't have lunch? Yes, but I don't know where that comes from because the French are very much like, boom. They're like, okay, let me put this down. Let's go eat. They sit down. Back in the day when I was shooting Colombiana, they would have some bottles of wine on the table. Now you don't, but that's okay. but you eat so well. Nobody gives you a styrofoam plate with plastic things like we do in other parts of the world where we shoot. Everybody has silverware and a plate, and you sit down and we all talk, and everybody takes a break and we really eat. And then everybody goes, smokes a cigarette, drinks their shot of espresso, and then we go work.
46:31But you do your 8 to 10 hours, and then everybody goes home. You come home and I'm shooting in Paris. You're having a baguette and a bottle of wine. You're debriefing with Selena, with Edgar, with Carla. You're talking about what you're doing and why is this special for you and how it impacted your life. Carla's teaching us about the trance experience by just sharing anecdotes of her life that no matter how painful, dark, or bright, they've shaped her identity. And I'm learning from Selena. I'm getting to work up close and personal with this pop star on paper. She's a pop star when in reality she's a decent and an incredible human being, so talented with such great taste, boss lady.
47:16Edgar's just sexy. Edgar's so classy, so worldly. You know, he grew up, he was born in Europe, and he grew up partially in South America and Europe and speaks like five languages. And we're all here. And Adriana. Adriana comes as this queen of Mexico with so much recognition, so many awards, such great body of work. And we're all excited to be here with Jack, you know, who has been at some point in our lives and in our careers, just an icon and a giant in his own right. And our hearts were open. Did you discover the restaurants? I saw that you ate a lot on the 11th. Those new restaurants are so interesting, aren't they?
48:00They are, they are. A lot of young cooks were doing different wines, different food. Well, and to realize, too, that as city folks in Paris, they have their version of Asian food that is like their everyday food, and it's Nham's. It's Vietnamese food. And I just remember having the best Vietnamese food in Paris. But always, always going back to my default of escargot, a bottle of Saint-Emilion, and maybe some duck confit. It's just what I, my go-to. But every now and then, I always yearn for Asian flavors or for multi-cultures. There's great Argentine restaurants there. There's great Italian. There's the sushi scene.
48:42I haven't really tapped into the Japanese scene, but everybody loves sushi in Paris. but I'm just so busy having real typical French food and having Italian and Argentine food. It's like, I just, you know, everybody loves the empanadas and all these things. And how did the film, we should talk a bit more about the film. Are you here to do work for the movie now? Yeah, it's so, you know, we have 17, we have, what, 19 more days before the voting. Voting opens on the 11th of February and then they close, I believe, on the 19th. And so I guess this is very new territory for me, and I've enjoyed the whole process.
49:21And to me, everything that was being put together was all in favor of complementing these four women's journey. And their journeys were not, you know, they weren't great to say the least, but they were so real and they were so human. And they were so diverse in their own right, you know, with a trans woman, with a young woman that was the wife of a crime lord, with a lawyer, with a battered woman that was trying to run away from a domestic sort of abusive situation. And they're all just in a way interconnected and looking for their most authentic selves. And that is what drew me in. We're all in awe of the movie and awe of what you've done.
50:08Thank you. So I think that you've described a life of happiness, of struggle, of loss, of grief, of joy, children, finding love. And there have been times when obviously you found comfort in dance. You'd say you found comfort in your family. And there is also times when we see food as not staving off hunger or expressing something, but it is pure comfort. My last question to you is to say if you needed comfort, and I hope you don't, but if you did, is there a food that you would turn to? Any Dominican stew cures me, heals me. And now that my husband has been in my life and he's such a big part of who we are and the same way I am a big part of who he is, any Italian stew as well.
51:03I'll take any risotto I will take. And I do have to say that the older I get, the more I am connecting with my mothers through food. The farm to table, the growing something and making something with your bare hands, has been an event that just keeps growing, an act, a process that keeps growing in me. And it's just bigger and bigger. And I just, I bake the bread for my boys. Even though I'm here promoting a movie, right before I left, I baked their bread. I'm going to start making their yogurt. All the things that they actively eat. And I know that the pasta eventually, I will have to make it on my own because the more and more I'm educating myself about the kind of food that is out there today, which is very different to the food that I ate as a child, a lot of our ailments come from food.
51:58And I just want my children to always become particular eaters and always yearn for things that are fresh and well-made and properly handled versus whatever is in that I can throw in this instant thing and it can give me something super back, give me something back quickly. So we make everything from scratch. I make their bone broth from scratch. I bake their, you know, their banana bread and I put a whole bunch of stuff in it, you know, in their meatballs. I put all the veggies that I can process. You know, I can blend in it. And that way, creating a palate that is just inflexible for bad food.
52:39You know what I mean? Because it's the way that I was raised. I'm still the kind of person that, because I was raised on such great flavors and such organic ways of eating, I can't just go anywhere to eat. I will refuse and I will kindly pass and drink tea, you know, until my next stop where I can eat something fresh. And my husband is the same way. So we want our kids to sort of grow up that way. Well, you're a woman of values. Yes, strong. And optimism and strong and no fear. Thank you so much. Thank you.
53:15Thank you for listening to Ruthie's Table 4 in partnership with Montclair.
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From the publisher
A couple of months ago I discovered a sign on the door to my office, saying ‘Do not disturb.’ Zoe Saldana was inside, changing into her dress for lunch downstairs to celebrate the release of her new movie, Emilia Pérez. Afterwards I walked her to her car, talking about how to make the perfect rice. A few minutes later, we'd agreed to do a podcast together.
Since then, I've seen her everywhere, on screens and newspapers, magazines and posters. Last month she won a Golden Globe, and in February and March she’s a contender for both a BAFTA and an Oscar. Now, Zoe is back here with me on a Saturday morning in The River Cafe, to talk about food, family, and happiness.
Ruthie's Table 4, made in partnership with Moncler.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
