Branded: Hououbiden

0:21Hello everybody and welcome to Sake Revolution. This is America's first sake podcast. I am I'm your host, John Puma from the Sake Notes. I'm also the guy who made the internet Sake Discord, as well as the lead mod over at Reddit's r slash sake community. And I'm your host, Timothy Sullivan. I'm a Sake Samurai. I'm the Director of Education at the Sake Studies Center, as well as the founder of the Urban Sake website. And every week, John and I will be here tasting and chatting about all things sake and doing our best to make it fun and easy to understand. Well, hello, Tim. How are you doing this week?

1:05I'm doing great. How about yourself, JP? No complaints. No complaints at all. Just, you know, living the dream. You know, another day in the Sake podcast. Another day in the Sake podcast. And the one thing I'm really happy about today, we're doing a branded episode, Tim. Yes, we are diving into a brand, kind of telling the story of the brand. And I'm very excited for these episodes. They're always a lot of fun. Yeah. I always say that sake is more than just liquid in a bottle. It's all about the people who make it, you know? Yeah. These episodes allow us to explore that a little bit. Yeah, yeah.

1:51And we typically do these branded episodes when a new sake that's kind of got some hype behind it shows up on our shores. And as time goes on, it's harder to get those because a lot more sake makes it to the United States, which is wonderful. But here's one that did catch on really nicely, got a lot of momentum behind it in Japan. And now it is finally here. And Tim, you want to tell the good people at home what brand we're talking about? Yes, we are going to be tasting a Junmai Daiginjo from Ho 'obiden, and that's made by Kobayashi Shuzo, and they're located in Tochigi Prefecture. so ho 'o biden is a well-known brand and i think it kind of has a reputation for being a little bit hard to get and a very luxurious style and they really value local rice production in their sake as well yeah uh i i i had heard all of those things actually um and it's really nice that, you know, when you have a sake that is hard to find in Japan, it is often trickier to find here when they do bring it over.

3:17So we're very fortunate that we were able to get our hands on a bottle. And in full disclosure, this was actually gifted to us for the show by the importer. Thank you very much to the folks over at Sake Suki for giving us this bottle of Hoobina. I think the brand story is amazing. The brewery was founded in 1872, and it's been in the Kobayashi family since then. And the most recent president to take over has been Masaki Kobayashi. And he's the fifth generation of the family to run this brewery. All right. Right. Now, one thing that is really interesting is that he came back in like 1995 to take over as president.

4:13And from what I've read online, Kobayashi Shuzo was on the verge of bankruptcy. Oh, they were not in a good way. They were not in a good way. That's a story we hear occasionally where the previous generation, they're having a rough time and then the next gen comes in and they're taking the reins in a really perilous position. So what happened next to get us to where we're at now? Yeah. Well, this story has a very interesting twist. Ooh, I like twist endings. Yes. And it involves a love story as well. So Mr. Kobayashi actually met his future wife, and she happens to be involved in the sake brewing business as well.

5:07She was an instructor at the Iwate Perfectional Brewers Institute, which is the technical institute connected to the Nambu Toji. So the Nambu Toji is the largest Toji group in Japan, and it's connected to Iwate. So he met Mayumi, they fell in love, and they got married. So not only was Mr. Kobayashi running a brewery, but the life partner he ended up with also was an instructor and had amazing skills in making sake. Okay. So what happened next was that he, you know, Mr. Kobayashi took over the brewery in 1995, and there was already a toji there. The husband was a new president, and the wife was a brewing instructor from the Iwate Brewers Institute.

6:01But they had so much respect for the existing toji that the wife didn't take on any role at the brewery immediately. But after five years, they decided that she should become the toji. So she stepped in as toji, and that's when things at the brewery shifted dramatically. And the style of their sake became more modern. So she brought in modern brewing techniques and she brought in new ways of approaching brewing ho 'obiden. And that was a huge shift. And after that, the sake became much more sought after and started winning awards and became like more of a cult sake after the husband and wife team started working together to make the sake.

6:57Nice. That's awesome. I love these stories of these breweries that they're on the ropes and then they make a change and they're able to just make this wonderful comeback story. And now they've got this really hot soft sake that's being exported to the US. That's great. Yeah. And in 2022, they actually built a new facility to make the modern production methods that they're using. So they still have the old, their main brewery where traditional sake brewing is carried out. But in 2022, they built the Hishogura, which is their modern brewing facility. And I think out of that facility, a lot of their award-winning sakes have come.

7:41and it's been a real turnaround story to go from the verge of bankruptcy in 1995 to winning gold medals and being a sought-after cult sake all these years later yeah that's awesome that's fantastic good for them I'm so glad to hear that I just wanted to mention one One last thing, I mean, there are not a lot of female tojis or master brewers in Japan. No, not at all. So, Mayumi is contributing greatly to the success of this brand. And I think it has to be acknowledged that this is a rare situation where it's a husband and wife team. The husband is the president, the wife is the master brewer, and that's just not something you see every day.

8:30It's a feel-good idea. It's a feel-good story. But what do you talk about at the dinner table? It's like, oh, the moromi temperature was this, that, blah, blah, blah.

8:43Well, this brand is very sought after, and we were super lucky to receive this sake as a sample to taste on today's podcast. I'm thrilled to be featuring this. I've never had this particular one before, so we're both going to be reacting. and the sake that we have from Ho 'obiden is the Asahi Mai. It's a Junmai Dai Ginjo. And John, do you want to give us the stats for this sake? Sure. Now, if at home you heard Asahi Mai and thought, my, that sounds like rice, you are absolutely correct. This is in addition to the name of the sake. It's actually the name of the rice that's used here. So I'm going to jump right into that and we'll backtrack a tiny bit.

9:29This is using asahimai from Okoyama. Apparently, asahimai, very, very difficult to cultivate, not easy to get along with is this rice. So they're putting in a lot of work, a lot of effort to bring this to us. As Tim mentioned, this is from Kobayashi Shuzo over in Tuchigi Prefecture. Lots of good sake coming out of Tuchigi these days, I think. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That asahimai is milled down to 50 % of its original size. The yeast is listed as house yeast. So I'm assuming that that is something proprietary to them, or do you think they're doing something ambient? Probably proprietary, right? Proprietary, yeah.

10:11Yeah, that's my thought. I don't think the flavor profile is matched up with an ambient yeast for this one. Unfortunately, we don't have sake meter value for this. It's a little underwrapped, much like the yeast. but we do know that the ABV is 16 % because that's the law. They have to tell us that. All right. So the only thing I have to add is that this sake rice called Asahi Mai, the only other thing I know about it is that it is a non-crossbred heirloom variety. So like omachi hasn't been crossbred and it's like an original heirloom strain. I've read that asahi, my asahi rice is also a non-crossbred heirloom strain.

11:00And I think that is one of the reasons it's so difficult to cultivate and to grow. It hasn't been crossbred to facilitate different things to make it easier to work with as a farmer. So this is an original heirloom strain. And that's one thing I read about this particular sake. And I think that's why they want to feature the rice so prominently in the branding. Right. It's very important to note that when people are crossbreeding and trying to make new types of rice, it's not just for flavor. It's not just to try and change how the sake tastes necessarily. It's also very important for making it easier to cultivate because you get larger, if you get larger yields, you're able to make more sake at a lower price.

11:45This is, you know, when you're using the original stuff, it becomes a little bit more difficult and more expensive. okay so tim let's take a look at this label real fast all right so this is it is dark this is a this is a like a very dark bottle almost a black bottle and the label is black and the lettering is dark gray it is um they're going for like a mood right john i think the kids call it a vibe oh it's a vibe okay it's a vibe sorry kids i screwed it up yes the whole beat in kanji though is uh isn't like silver which is very nice it's a shiny looks pretty cool i think this this label might be for the western market it's like a one-piece wraparound label it might be a western market label but i am excited to get this in the glass and there's also there's also a phoenix on the label oh yeah so there's a bird so the phoenix is the of course the symbol of rebirth and um i think they use that phoenix icon or iconography in all of their branding so it must be tied to their brand which is very cool yeah yeah all right should we get this open and in the glass we absolutely should all right all right i've got it in the glass let's give this a smell as we usually do

13:20very subtle very elegant this is not showy is it no no it's not it's nice though it's got that

13:35it's lovely i'm having a really hard time identifying this. What do you think? What are you going to ask? Well, I think the aromatics are very subtle, very clean. There's a hint of something that could be a whisper of fruitiness, but there's almost like an incense quality to it. Yeah, I was going to say like anise or something like that. I was worried I'd be misusing the word anise. Something almost minty on the nose. I don't know what it is. But when you said incense, I think that might be what I was detecting. Yeah. And I don't mean like, you know, hardcore Catholic church incense. I'm talking like wafting Japanese incense from the tea house next door.

14:34Oh, okay. All right. Yeah, it's got something very pleasant but light, and it's a very gentle aroma. Extremely. All right. All right. Let's taste.

14:56So good. That's nice. There's a wonderful little bite of acidity on the finish there that I am a big fan of. I think for me, bite is too strong a word. This is very silky and it has like a velvety texture. It's soft. and again, it's not in any way overtly fruity or tropical fruit or any of that. It's very reserved. Reserved elegance is like the word that comes to mind. It's like very silky smooth and hints at maybe an apple or some kind of fruitiness, but very restrained and very, very elegant. it's so much about the texture for me here very velvety and delicious not heavy at all uh it's 16 alcohol there's it says genshu so there's no water added to this even though it's brewed to a lower alcohol level and i think that this rice the special rice they're using the asahi mai is contributing to some of these flavors that we're having a hard time really pinning down I think this goes back to that original heirloom, non-crossbred rice.

16:20So it may be that we're discovering the flavors of this Asahi rice. I think you're right. And I think that one of the things that's the most fun about this, that it is sort of like subverting expectations in a way. You know, you're having this Dai Ginjo. You're expecting like, oh, it's going to be fruity and blah, blah, blah, fruity and light. And like in this, it's like there is some sort of a fruit here. but it's a very different style. I'm agreeing with you 100%. It's very unusual, and I like it a lot. It's very challenging. It's very challenging to describe the flavor while being extremely comforting from a texture standpoint.

17:01We've been down the road with silky, wonderfully textured sake like this before, but the taste here is just so... it's just so there's so much to explore and unpack yeah yeah it's interesting when sakes are bold in your face loud there's no disputing like what's going on but when you have a sake like this that is so restrained and so elegant and it's not in your face you really have to difficult It's difficult to find the words, to find the descriptors, to give it its justice in describing how it is. But I think for me, the texture is so subtle and elegant. It is not, I think if you describe it in a way that you say, oh, it's elegant, it's restrained.

17:56Some people might think, oh, it's probably too boring for me, but no way. No, no. There's so much to explore. Yeah. And again, I think it's an unknown rice to us kind of coming through on the palate. And it doesn't taste ricey or grainy at all. So it's not like a traditional rice flavor coming across. But I think that is giving it the depth of flavor that we're kind of trying to describe. I think it's coming from that Asahi Mai rice. Yeah. I think that this is really interesting to me because we've been doing this show for a very long time now. and outside of that I've been tasting sake with you for even longer and I've never seen you at a loss for words for trying to describe what you're experiencing when you're tasting a sake before.

18:44Not like this. And I think that's amazing that this sake is here and it's able to do that. You've had things you didn't like that maybe you didn't want to describe but this is something that you're really enjoying and really having a hard time with. I think that's fascinating. I think it's good to be challenged sometimes and try to dig around and, you know, I'm tasting this for the first time. And it's true. Sometimes when you're evaluating a socket, you have to go back to it a second time, a third time, experience it, maybe do a food pairing with it. So I'm not at all perturbed by, you know, not being able to nail down a flavor or aroma that we're both like, aha, I think it's fine to explore and revisit down the road again.

19:39But it's important to say that this is extremely delicious. Like it is really good. And sometimes you don't need to know why something tastes good as long as you're enjoying it. Right. I think that's absolutely true. It's just such a hard sake to describe. It doesn't fit into the nice little bubbles and little compartments that we have in our minds for a lot of sakes that are of this type. It's a lot of fun to delve into something new. Yeah. Well, I do have a tasting note from the brand. Should we read that and see what they say? I am very curious to see what they say. Okay. Absolutely. So they say the Muscat driven Ginjo aroma introduces a vibrant bouquet that is beautifully complemented by the balanced umami and refreshing characteristic of Asahi rice.

20:33The palate offers a rich depth with a light crisp base, making it both approachable and versatile. The flavor remains stable when cooled, ensuring a consistent and high quality experience in every glass. So they don't go into much detail. They gave us, they said muscat driven aroma. No, I'm going to.

20:58Yeah. It's not as muscat grapey as I would think, but. Right. When I hear driven, I'm thinking it's, you know, it's taking the wheel. No, this is, it's subtly there. And it's not something I picked up on earlier. Yeah. Yeah, I do like how even they avoided specific known fruit descriptors that don't really apply to this sake. This sake is different. It's fun and different. It is all these things that they described it as, though. Yeah. Really nice. So I want to know what you think about food with this. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So we've got texture. The texture here, you've got that silky, elegant, like, oh, it's so wonderful.

21:39And then you've got this really nice, restrained, crisp sake. What are you thinking? Well, my mind immediately goes to lighter, cleaner dishes. I think that if you were having sushi or sashimi, this would be an amazing sake to have with it. I think that anything from the raw bar, like shrimp cocktail, oysters on the half shell, crab legs, all my standard go-tos, poached fish as well. I think that seafood would be the best friend of this sake, basically. Yeah. I immediately, my mind immediately went to sushi. Usually sushi is so light, and this would be such a great complement to so much of that sushi and sashimi.

22:25other types of I would love like a white fish with a really mild sauce I think that would be like a broiled white fish would be amazing with this I think the two of them would go fabulously together let's see they recommend let's take a look oh they recommended sushi and sashimi okay alright steamed vegetables salads citrus based dressings oh okay I'm a fan of citrus-based dressings. I can see that going well with this. And they recommend this children of wine glass. Yeah. Yeah. We're doing it right, Tim. All right. That's good. Well, I think now that I've thought about it for a little bit, I think that there are other sakes that I often pair with sushi and sashimi that are clean, crisp, and they are dry.

23:17They are a little more bracing. This has a depth of flavor to it that brings more dimension. And this one has that very subtle rice flavor from the Asahi Mai that gives it a depth of flavor. Even though it's so restrained and elegant, there's a depth going on. And I think that that just brings a little more to the party when it comes to layering flavors with a food pairing. You know what I mean? Yeah, I think I do. And I agree. I'm like so excited to try this with food now. Like that's, that's my main takeaway from this is like, you know, I am not the pairing guy. I'm just on the couch and drink the sake guy.

24:03We've talked about this before, but like this sake makes me so excited to try it with food. I am, I'm going to do some, I'm going to do some experiments for the next week, I think. And just kind of every dish I have, I'm going to pour a little bit of this and see how it goes. Like I'm really excited to see what happens with this. It just, it seems like there's a lot of fun possibilities. Yeah. And I'm intrigued by the subtlety of this sake. It's so delicious. It's a ultra premium Junmai Dai Ginjo, but it has this subtleness to it that makes you want to look in the glass and study it. Like that's what's getting me.

24:43It's like, oh my gosh, this tastes so good. What's going on? And it's the combination of the gentle fruitiness with the rice flavor at a super premium level that I think is really grabbing me. Yeah, it's really good. I agree 100%. It's been a while since I've had a sake that was so different, yet so just, I want more. You know what I mean? It's a unique flavor and a wonderful combination of the flavor and the texture and the crispness. I just want to explore this and have so much of it and try it and see what's going on. I just feel like I can get a lot out of this sake. Yeah, it's appealing. It's elegant.

25:30But I think it's fair to say that this is also food friendly for a Junmai Dai Ginjo. Yeah, for sure. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Note that my first instinct wasn't, I'm taking this to the couch, I'll see you later. This is my first instinct was, I need to try this with some food. So the brand again is Ho 'obiden. It's a little difficult to say Ho 'obiden. That doesn't exactly roll off the tongue. Ho 'obiden. Ho 'obiden. Ho 'obiden. Ho 'obiden. But I'm really excited to try more sakes from this brand now. What about you? Absolutely. I would be lying if I said I haven't tried other sake from this brand because I very much have.

26:15And they are – honestly, the other ones I've had from them have been wonderful and elegant. But they were a little easier to put into a box where you're just like this is – this one is very nice and fruity. It's got a really – a wonderful mouthfeel, et cetera, et cetera. Like there was – they were easier for me to just kind of like go like, okay, this is this style. This is that style. whereas this one for me is just such a just a different style it's a new style for me really nice yeah i think one thing i didn't mention earlier is that i think their water comes from an underground source so that might mean that their water has a bit more minerality and that might add to some of the layering in the sake as well that's just i'm i'm taking a guess here, but I did read that they use an underground water source.

27:08And I think that might play a role in some of the depth of flavor and layering that we're getting here. But I'm excited to try more from this brand for sure. So John, do you know any of the other sakes that Sake Suki is bringing in from Ho 'obiden? Yes. So in addition to this one, the Asahi Mai, they've also got the Sake Mirai, which is that wonderful sake rice that was originally cultivated in, if I'm not mistaken, in Yamagata. I think this is Juyundai's rice. And then also the Black Phoenix, which I've definitely had in Japan before, and that is Ayama. So Ayama's starting to come into the States.

27:51I'm very excited. It's been a long time coming. We know you're an Ayama fanboy. I am a fanboy. This is the truth. I'm not going to attempt it anyway to disguise that. I am 100 % a fanboy. Unimagine. All right. Well, sounds like we're going to have to get that Ayama sake from Ho 'obiden on the show at some point in the future. But this was a fun look into this brewery and a very interesting setup with a married couple being President and Toji and an intriguing sake. So just really interesting all around. Yeah, good times. And I'm glad to see this one in the States. It's always exciting when new stuff comes to our shores.

28:42Yeah. Well, thanks to you, John. Thanks for tasting this intriguing sake with me. Special thank you to Sake Suki for providing this sake for us to taste today. And I want to say a special hello and thank you to all of our listeners, but especially the members of our Patreon community. If you're interested in supporting Sake Revolution, we do have a Patreon. You can visit us at patreon.com slash sake revolution and join our community. We do a live happy hour every month where you can talk to us and sip sake with us. So if you'd like to chat with us in person, join our Patreon and we look forward to meeting you there.

29:23And if you've got a question for Tim and I here, or maybe a show suggestion, or maybe we flubbed something and you need to correct us. That's very important, too. It happens. It does happen from time to time. We want to hear from you, though. Reach out to us. We've got an email address. It's feedback at sakerevolution.com. The website also has a little form you can fill out to send us messages directly. You can also slide into our DMs on Facebook or Instagram. Until next time, though, please remember to keep drinking sake and kampai.