Sake Destinations: Tokyo

0:26John Puma from The Sake Notes, also the administrator of the Sake, and the at the internet Sake Discord, as well as the moderator over at Reddit's r slash sake community. And I'm your host, Timothy Sullivan. I'm a sake samurai. I'm the director of education at the Sake Study Center, as well as the founder of the Urban Sake website. And John and I will always be here tasting and chatting about all things sake and doing our best to make it fun and easy to understand. Did you say always? Always. Always. Always and forever. Did I sign some kind of contract that I missed a fine print on? Wait a minute.

1:08How are you, John? I'm doing all right. I'm doing all right. How about you? I'm doing great. I have a little bit of wanderlust. Do you really? I do. I've been talking so much about going to Japan and it's been on my mind. How about you? Me too. Yeah. Cause I was just there a couple of months ago and depending on when we hear this, I will, I will either be about to be just there again, or I will have just been there again. Either way, either way, I'm going back. That's right. So you have another trip in the books for Japan. That's so exciting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm going to be visiting Craft Sake Week.

1:56That seems like it's going to be a good time. Now, in full disclosure, you have given me some dish on this. You've told me that you've been to this event before, but not as a guest, right? You did it as a vendor? That's right. I was working with Hakkaisan, and I took part in Craft Sake Week a few years ago. And it was really, really fun. It's kind of an outdoor event, so it's very weather-dependent. But the lineup that they get for guests and brewers coming through is really exciting, and it changes every day. So that's amazing. Yeah. I've been looking at the list and trying to plan out which days I want to go, but it sounds like I need to look at the weather report.

2:36More importantly. Yeah. But, you know, your trip to Japan got us thinking about the huge increase in tourism that's been going to Japan. Yeah. You and I have done a few episodes about Japan travel, but we thought that maybe we could even make a series out of it. And we decided to call it Sake Destinations. And of all the sake destinations, we're going to start with the Big Kahuna, Tokyo. Yes. And we thought it might be useful to some of our listeners if we give our recommendations about where to go for sake. day. And of course, this is just the tip of the iceberg, but you and I both have a lot of trips under our belt and I thought it might be fun if we share some of the places we've gone and really enjoyed.

3:25Yeah. Yeah. And the way I envision this series is it's not only going to be just like, you know, we can do cities, obviously, anywhere in the world, which is great. Tokyo is a big place. We can revisit Tokyo again if we have more things that we want to share. We have, you know, so many different options and there's a lot of places I'm sure that we're a chomping at the bit to share with people. But we're going to have to, so that we can still do other episodes, we need to calm it down maybe a little bit. The excitement is a little high on my end. Yeah. So in future episodes of the Sake Destination series, we're going to talk about other cities off the beaten path that you can visit.

4:01But today we're going to focus on Tokyo. Yes. And this is so exciting. Everyone goes through Tokyo. And I think that there are so many good sake places. It can be overwhelming. So getting a recommendation is a real leg up. And John, do you want to start with like your restaurant recommendation or your sake bar recommendation? I'm going to kick things off with, I'm doing the very first recommendation in this series. This is very exciting for me. This is a place that I have been going to, Michelle and I realized, for over 10 years now. And we were very friendly with the owner there. and the name of the izakaya is Magokoroishi, and it is in Shinbashi.

4:48Now, the reason we had originally gone there was Maishal had seen a listing on bento.com. I don't know. I'm not sure if bento.com is still around. It used to be a really good English resource to find izakayas in Tokyo. And there was a note in there about this place, and it said that you can go there and there might even be brewers hanging out and there's a lot of experimental and unlikely bottles there. And it seemed really exciting. And so that was kind of like the impetus for us going was like this seemed like a place where industry people may hang out. And so we ended up going over there. And we didn't, to our knowledge, run into industry people.

5:30But it's a pretty unique place. The food's wonderful. His sake selections are wonderful. His ability to pair them is fantastic. But he also, my favorite thing about him is that he is a self-defined omachist. So, yes. Do you want to define that for our listeners? So I will, I will. So he is a huge proponent of omachi rice in sake. And so it's not like a disproportionate amount, but he does carry a lot of good omachi sakes. and he carries a lot of uh of a wide variety it's not gonna get anything there but i kind of like that he's gonna have some really fun omachi for me stashed away someplace that's gonna be a lot of fun for me to drink and again i think the food there is magnificent the staff are extremely friendly these days you probably want to get a reservation specifically on like your thursday and friday nights one note is this place is in shimbashi and shimbashi was developed with the understanding that it would be a destination for salarymen to go after work and the entire neighborhood is kind of based on that idea which means a lot of his clothes on saturday and sunday and she is no exception to that rule yeah whenever people message me like i'm in shimbashi tonight where do i go and i'm like what wait a minute is it saturday where you are and they're like yeah i'm like oh okay well that limits our options a little bit because like half of the places i recommend in shimbashi are are closed on saturday and sunday so what's it like inside is it a small cramped little sake bar is it large what's what's the vibe inside it's actually pretty nice inside it's not like you know decadent or anything but you know it's got a lot of uh you a lot of wood finish on it.

7:24The bar is very nice. It has a nice little angled corner bar, and then a nice assortment of tables that you can put together for large parties and stuff like that. The food is generally traditional izakaya food, sometimes, you know, cranked up a little bit in its one minor hiccup. Their menu is not in English. Most of the staff do speak English, and you probably have a translator on your phone that you can scan the menu with, but bear in mind that the menu itself is not in English. Yes. And we do have an episode, Survival Japanese for Travelers, for Sake Travelers. And I just recently re-listened to that episode and there's a lot of good information there.

8:10I'm going to put it in the show notes. So you can bring our Japanese language cheat sheet for sake along to Ishii, and I think you'll be fine. Yeah, yeah, I think so. And if I didn't express this well enough earlier, one of my favorite things there is that he's really good about not just pairing, but also recommendations. So when you let him know what kind of sake you like, what you've had, what you enjoyed, what you like about it, he's, again, his English is very good, and he's going to find really good stuff for you. He, in addition to being a restaurateur, is also a sake educator. He teaches a sake diploma class that he runs on the premises of the restaurant during times that they're closed.

8:56Great. And now, Tim, what about you? Oh, well, I have a sake bar slash restaurant that I highly recommend. And this is actually a place that I've taken you to, John. So you've had this experience as well. So the place that I recommend is called Moto Tokyo. And it's in the Tokyo Midtown building. And one of the reasons I love this restaurant, there's many, but one thing I really love is that it is literally across the street from the main Tokyo train station. So everybody sometime in their travels passes through Tokyo station. And I often book my hotel in the area of Tokyo station. And Moto Tokyo opened a few years back and it's part of the moto empire there's a gem by moto there's a few different moto sake bars but this one has really stolen my heart in a lot of ways they are in an kind of a mall type building they're on the third floor so you do have to search a bit to find it up to the third floor and in the front of the bar they have a standing sake bar and then if you want dinner, they have kind of a high-end dinner experience behind a sliding door.

10:16So the good news is that there are websites online that you can book that are all in English. I think Pocket Concierge is one of them, but there are these services you can use to book a reservation online. So they take reservations for dinner, not for the standing bar. So if you just want to stop by for a drink. It's a wonderful place near Tokyo station to pop up and they have a very wide selection of premium and ultra premium sake from a lot of craft makers. And then in the back, if you make a dinner reservation, you can get a wonderful multi-course dinner and you can get each course paired. One of the managers is Mariko Taniguchi, and she's been there every time I visited.

11:06And she is a wonderful hostess and makes you feel so welcome and does such a good job at pairing each course with a special seasonal selection of sake. So I cannot recommend this place highly enough. Moto Tokyo. Did you enjoy your trip there? Yes, I did. For the record, I only got the opportunity to enjoy the standing bar, but I enjoy myself a really nice standing bar every now and again. Cindy, you mentioned the reservation situation. I did suggest people make reservations for Ishii, but I did not tell anybody how they might do that. And fortunately, you can make reservations there via their Tabalogue site, which we can put in the show notes.

11:46Tabalogue has done an incredible job the last few years of making nearly everything on their site available in English. So it's a great way to make reservations at so many restaurants and izakayas and sake bars all over Japan. Now we've got the, we're going to move on to our retail section of the episode. Now, Tim, I'd like you to kick the retail off because yours is a little bit more contemporary. Yeah. So I think that, you know, when you go to Japan, you want to enjoy sake while you're there at a restaurant. But everyone I know, we did a whole episode on suitcase imports. Yes, we did. You want to bring something back with you.

12:27You can put a few bottles in your suitcase and bring something back to share with friends and family. And if you want to buy some bottles retail, finding a liquor shop that has a superior sake selection is worth researching. But we're going to take the hard work out of it, and we're going to give you some really amazing recommendations. So the liquor store that I recommend or the sake shop that I recommend for buying a few bottles retail, there's a beautiful neighborhood in Tokyo called Ginza. And Ginza is a bit of a business district, a bit of a nightlife district, and a lot of high-end shops.

13:10So it's kind of like Fifth Avenue, and you're going to see your Gucci, Prada, everything else. But there is a shopping mall, very high-end shopping mall called Ginza 6. And if you go two flights down into the basement at the bottom level of Ginza 6 Mall, they have one of those delicious, amazing food courts where you can get all these high-end different types of food. And down there in the basement, they have a sake shop known as Imadaya. Imadaya Ginza 6. And they are open every day of the week from 10 30 a.m. till about 8 30 at night. And this is my one-stop shop for sake as I am heading out of the country.

14:02So yes it is. I usually go like the day before I leave and stock up on a few bottles. And this is such a wonderful place. They have almost everything is in refrigerators and they have a beautiful selection of sake cups and glassware as well. And the one thing I want to mention that is especially fantastic about Imadaya is that the staff is so helpful and almost all of them speak fluent English as well. So if you go in and they actually wear little flags on their lapel to tell you what languages they speak. So almost all of them have the little British flag to let you know that they speak English.

14:43And you can ask any of them for recommendations. And they're so helpful and so nice. It's a wonderful shop. John, I know you've been there as well. Do you have any experiences there? I have been there many times. It is, you know, kind of, I'd say since they opened, they've become sort of the gold standard for people in the eastern Tokyo area that are looking to pick up some, you know, very... I don't want to use the term high-end, but we'll say highly sought-after sakes. They get a lot of really exclusive stuff. And Tim, as you pointed out, so much of their team is English-speaking. And yeah, they're all really helpful.

15:20They all know their sake. They really know. And they deal with people coming in there to get sake every day. And that's what they do. And they seem to love it. And they do a great job of making recommendations. Yeah. Yeah. And one last thing I want to mention about Imadaya is that if you do go in there to the Ginza 6 location, they have a counter. And at the end of the counter, they almost always have sake available for sampling. So if you have some time and you have a few extra minutes, please ask them about if there's anything to sample. It's a reasonable fee by the glass. And they usually have 6 to 12 bottles behind the counter to just pour and give tastes.

16:02and they also do some classes as well. I'm not sure of the schedule on that. I've never kind of lined that up, but I think that it's a super reliable place. The sakes do lean more towards the high end. So you're absolutely right. This is not a budget place for searching for sake, but the selection is unique in that they get a lot of very sought after brands and they have a lot of seasonal releases as well. So if you're looking for a special gift, they have a lot of reserve bottles. And I think you could literally go in with a blindfold on and just pull bottles off the shelf and just come home happy.

16:44You're going to have a great time. So, John, I want to pass it off to you now and get your Tokyo recommendation for a really good sake retail shop. So what do you recommend? All right. So here's the thing. when I saw that you picked Imariya, I was like, well, I can't, I can't go toe to toe with you on Imariya because it's in central, it's in like, you know, central eastern Tokyo. It's immaculately positioned. It is ultra convenient. Everything they have is great. The entire test staff speaks English. What am I going to do? So I decided to go the opposite direction. and I found a place that is a little off the beaten path but is very, very famous and has been around for a very, very long time.

17:31It is called Aji no Machidaya. Oftentimes it is just called, people just refer to it as like sake shop machidaya or just machidaya. It is very famous again. It's been around for a very long time and one of the things that they do a lot of is they supply a lot of izakayas and restaurants. a lot of places that you'll go to in tokyo they'll get their stuff from there but it's really nice but one other thing that's really fun about them is that they have the most one cups i've ever seen in one place they advertise selling over 100 different types of one cups i didn't know there were 100 different types of one cups tim but they do i'd have like nama one cups i was like wait what unpasteurized one cups where is this coming from and a lot of it is a lot of their one cup selections are local to are local to tokyo or the vicinity greater tokyo vicinity as well which is pretty cool so the only trick is that it is a little bit out there it is if you are you're tim are you familiar with like a like nakano like nakano broadway yes so it's like it's like like a stop or two past that and then you have to walk for about 10 minutes or so um but it is so worth it and it just like when you get there you're just like oh my god i am in sake heaven it just it feels so um you know it's a family-owned business it feels very like like deep tokyo it feels very like rich with history and again their sake selections are insane they have so much great stuff there and a lot of it's going to be a little bit less well known you know they're you're probably not going to get g-con at Machidae.

19:10You will probably be able to get G-Con at Imadea. Mm-hmm. Yeah. They're open from 10 to 6.30 Wednesday through Monday. And they're closed on Tuesdays. Okay. Yeah. So yeah, exclusive bottles. Really fun one cups. Great place. I will have you know, I have gone there before myself. Have you? Yes. And I went, I went to this place before Google Maps. That's great. I found it. Nice. But if anyone is a little bit older and they understand getting around Tokyo before Google Maps was a different thing than it is now. It was very much a different thing. Now, I have been to Tokyo pre-Google Maps. I did not go to Machidae pre-Google Maps, though.

19:59I definitely had a little help in my pocket. Yeah. But, yeah, it's a really fun place. And I think that as an experience, it's something that any sake lover should try to get to do at some point. Yeah. And the one cups are fantastic to bring back as gifts for people. So if you go to Machidaya and, you know, grab a few really fun looking one cups, you know, they're going to be super fresh. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And it's like the ultimate little omiyage or a little gift to bring back from Japan. and highly recommend it. It is off the beaten path, but if you are looking for a sake adventure, this definitely fills the bill.

20:45Yeah, I'm, again, a big fan of this place. It is, again, it's kind of far, but I think that if you're a sake fan that's visiting Japan, visiting Tokyo, you owe it to yourself to get over there one time. You will not regret it. You're going to have a blast over there. So I just want to reiterate, again, for all our listeners that if you are interested in either of these restaurant or retail recommendations, please visit our show notes at sakerevolution.com. We'll have all the details, pictures, store hours, and Google map links for you to find these for yourself when you make it to Tokyo. Great.

21:24So Tim, all this talking about shops and izakayas, I'm getting thirsty. I'm getting a little bit thirsty and I want to taste some sake myself. So what do you say we grab some bottles, you and me, different bottles, because I want to keep things interesting and then we'll talk about them and we'll sit them. Sounds great. All right. So I wanted to go out and pick a bottle to bring on the show that kind of made me think of my time in Japan and something fresh and seasonal. So I found a seasonal unpasteurized sake and let me introduce it to you. So I'm going to be tasting Kazenomori and this is Black Label 807.

22:11It's a Junmai Muroka Nama Genshu and this is from Yucho Shuzo in Nara Prefecture. And Kazenomori is a brand we've had on the show before. It's known as a brewery that produces, you know, maybe a little bit more of a wine-like impression, sometimes a little higher acidity, very juicy and rich. And this sake uses a local rice, Tsuyu Hakaze, and it's only polished to 80 % remaining. So a lot of Sakes get the very fine, super premium polishing, but they are on a kick to use as much of the rice grain as possible to be as sustainable as possible. So they only mill the rice to 80 % remaining, and they use yeast number seven.

23:06SMV is zero. Acidity is 2.0. And the alcohol percentage is a little high because it's a genshu, so we're at 17%. Very nice. Yeah. Okay. And John, what sake did you pick up to talk about our travel recommendations with? Sure. So I picked up a bottle of Gikyo Junmai Ginjo Genshu. It is from Yamachu Honke Brewery in Aichi Prefecture. And Tim, this sake comes wrapped in a newspaper. And I am very excited about that. There's something special about getting a Genshu that's wrapped in newspaper. So yeah, this is really cool. We got some sports page here. We got some baseball, it looks like. And then they just slapped their little information sticker on it on the front, which I'm wondering what's going to be under there once I take this wrapping off.

24:00But yeah, I'm a big fan of Geekyo's stuff. They sell a handful of different bottles here in the U.S. and I was happy to get my hands on this one. This, as I mentioned, is a Chunmai Ginjo Genshu using Yamada Nishiki rice, polished down to 60 % of its original size. The alcohol percentage has a range here, Tim. It's 16 to 17%. They're not sure. And it's using yeast number nine. A classic, if I recall correctly. Absolutely. All right. Well, let's get our bottles open and into the glass. All right. Get this rubber band off the newspaper. my sake came with a warning that it may pop the cork open so I have to open with care here please do please don't hurt yourself it did fizz when I opened it I expect some fizz from Katsunomori I'm going to pour by the microphone let's see if we can get this

25:04alright all done All right. As I unwrap the Geekio, I can tell you that this newspaper is from August 10th, 2024. Okay. I don't know when the sake was bottled necessarily, but that's the newspaper. Oh, actually I do. The sake was bottled on June 2025. So they keep this newspaper around for a bit. And there is a contemporary label underneath the newspaper. it's a very it's a classic kikyo label so tim we both got our sakes in the glass yours almost exploded on you but i'm glad it didn't and uh what's that what's that aroma got for you there yeah so again this is the kaze no mori black label 807 and the 807 by the way the 80 refers to the milling rate and the seven refers to the yeast variety.

26:02Ooh, that's nice. I like that. Yes. So 807 is a combination of the milling rate and the yeast. Now, when I smell this, there's a lot of tropical fruit. And the one thing I'm getting in particular that really jumps out to me is pineapple skin. Like, you know, when you peel a pineapple and you smell that, it's got, it smells like pineapple but it's got a little bark uh you know a little uh uh woody note in there too that's what i'm smelling here so it's primarily pineapple and uh some melon but very rich and something a little intense woody barky as well going on woody barky all right yeah so i'm gonna give this Kazenomori a taste.

26:54Okay. Oh, wow. So on the palate, this is a freshly arrived unpasteurized sake. And I felt some little fizz when I opened it. And you don't see it in the glass, but when you bring it on your palate, there is a prickling sensation. So the carbon dioxide is still there. these unpasteurized sankes are technically still alive and still bubbling away a little bit. And you really get the sensation of the super fresh prickling on the tongue from the carbon dioxide in this. So that's, it's very rare in the States to get a Nama that fresh. So this is something that just came in to the store I bought it from.

27:42So I know I got it fresh off the shelf and that's delicious. The flavor profile is rich. It's high in alcohol. We've got 17 % here and it's got a lot of juicy characteristics. Again, kind of pineapple forward, but more fruity and, but there is a very lingering aftertaste. So this is keeping up with that wine-like, rich, juicy characteristic that I feel we often get from Kazenomori. For me, the thing I enjoy the most about Kazenomori is that mouthfeel, that prickling that you were describing. I was like, oh, I wish I had some of that in front of me right now. It's so good. It's a thing that I've been seeing more breweries do, but I think they do it best.

28:29And I think it's really a lot of fun. Yeah, they do it best. But I have to say, to put it in perspective, like Kazenomori, this brand is something I go to when I want to show more the avant-garde wine-like direction of sake. versus something clean, crisp, and dry or more muted or more ricey. Like this is a style of sake that really has a real point of view. You know what I mean? Nice. So John, why don't you take us through your Gikyo? I will, I will. So this Gikyo, I didn't mention earlier that. So while Gikyo is in Aichi Prefecture, the Yamada Nishiki that's in this glass is actually a product of Hyogo.

29:14So a lot of breweries, when they're doing something a little more high-end, they'll make sure that they get Hyogo Yamada Nishiki. And in this case, it is grade A Tojo Yamada Nishiki. That's been milled down to 60%. So let's get some aroma going on here. I got a little almost pineapple. Are you copying my bark? I'm not copying. No, no, it's not like skin. No, it just reminds me of when I open a container with sliced pineapples in it. I'm like, oh yeah, it's like that. All right, and now the taste. Ooh, that's nice. It's a really, really pleasant acidity that goes throughout the entire taste. It kind of starts out a little bit more on that John Puma, that melon journey.

30:10a little bit of fruitiness and then

30:16and then it doesn't finish that way a little bit more rice forward and but it keeps that that little acidic zing to it it's really nice in my head I'm like I like focusing on this and thinking about it when I'm sipping on it meanwhile if I was drinking Kase Nomori I would just be celebrating the deliciousness in my mouth the entire time this is a much more Or this is something that much more like, ooh, this is interesting. Like, what's going on here? It's a lot very, very tasty sake. Yeah. That sounds fantastic as well. I think we both picked sakes that are kind of in the same direction. Possibly.

30:52I think your wine situation is much more, you used avant-garde, but I think you have a much more modern situation. Yeah. I think that this is leaning a touch more on the classic side. It's not like super classic, but it is a little bit more traditional. Yours is a little bit more new and exciting. Yeah. I just want to mention one last thing about my sake is that, you know, the rice milling at 80 % is very unusual. Like normally for Junmai, it's 70 % or less remaining, but they leave the rice grain very whole at 80%. And you would think that would give the sake a very grainy rice forward taste, but it doesn't.

31:39The magic and the skill and the craftsmanship really comes in when they take that 80 % remaining, lots of fats and protein still on that grain. And they sculpt it into something that has this pineapple, melon, and a wonderful juicy texture to it. there's also like you know apricot notes so it's a little ripe fruits and just delicious and you don't get that super ricey taste that you would expect from an 80 percent milling so that's speaks to the skill of the brewers i think now it's very interesting to me that so you've got something with 80 mine is built down to 60 yours is very bright and juicy mine is a little bit more rice forward and the characteristics of that Yamano really come through.

32:26Also, we're both sitting with 17 % alcohol. You said to yours you really don't taste the alcohol, right? Oh, it's strong. It's strong. It's strong on the finish. So there's a lingering finish. I kind of folded that into my idea that this is a wine-like sake, longer finish. But the weight is there with the alcohol. and I pick up it more on the finish, the aftertaste. I'm aware that it's a heavier, more alcohol-forward sake from the moment I start tasting it. And it's not a bad thing. It's just what they have constructed. It feels very intentional to me. Really good stuff. So on that note, Tim, this has been our first excursion.