Sake Revolution 2025 Year in Review

0:21Hello, everybody, and welcome to Sake Revolution. This is America's First Sake Podcast. and I'm your host, John Puma, from the Sake Notes, also the administrator over at the internet, Sake Discord, and that guy who runs Reddit's r slash sake community. And I'm your host, Timothy Sullivan. I'm a sake samurai. I'm the director of education at the Sake Studies Center, as well as the founder of the Urban Sake website. And John and I will be here always tasting and chatting about all things sake and doing our best to make it fun and easy to understand. Well, hello, Tim, and Happy New Year. Happy New Year, John.

0:58You took the words out of my mouth. I did. Aha. Yeah. Happy New Year. This is our old traditional first episode of the new year. We try to wrap up the previous year and we talk a little bit about the things we set out to do, things we accomplished, things that maybe we didn't accomplish. and then what we're planning to do for this year. And we'll get to that and whatnot in a little bit. But Tim, I don't know about you. I am thirsty. The new year has me thirsty. I think, John, we have to do a compay at the beginning to celebrate the end of 2025 and to welcome in 2026. Wow. I think that longtime listeners will be shocked by that.

1:46But somewhere, somewhere, the Sake Ninja is smiling. All right. Well, let's get our sake open, do our kanpai, and then we can introduce what we're drinking. Sure. Sounds good to me. All right, JP. Well, here's to an outstanding 2026. Yeah, let's make it happen. Kanpai. Kanpai. All right. Now, this is one of those fun episodes where you and I are drinking the same thing. so please let our listeners know what we selected for our year-end review episode for 2025. We are in fact drinking the same thing and it is a new batch, a new fun little batch from Brooklyn Kura called Kita Shizuku. Shockingly, it is named because the rice is Kita Shizuku rice from Hokkaido.

2:40This is I think the first time they're doing something like this And this bottle is not that widely available. I think you can buy it at the tap room. And I think you would have received it if you are on their subscription list, their Kura-ken. But yeah, the nice thing about this sort of thing is they'll do these small batches and try stuff out. And this is one of those. And it's a lot of fun. Yeah, this is big news because Brooklyn Kura has never used sake rice from Japan before. And this is our first time making sake with Japanese rice. And it's from Hokkaido. And a little bit of inside intel.

3:25Inside intel? Yeah. We have a brewer from Japan, Mr. Umehara, who is a full-time brewer working at Brooklyn Kura. And he's from Hokkaido originally. Oh, really? Nice. Yeah. So that, I think, inspired the location of where the rice came from. And as you mentioned, this is a Currican selection, so that's their subscription service. It's not super widely available, as you mentioned, but it is available in the taproom. And if you are a member at Brooklyn Curric, you can get this bottle. But why don't we let our listeners know what we think about the taste here? So this is something that is very unique in the world of Brooklyn Kura's orbit to have sake rise from Japan.

4:15So I've actually had Kitasuzuku from another American sake brewery in the past. Oh. Many moons ago. I would say maybe four years ago, actually five years ago, when I was in Hawaii, islander sake was using kita shizuku from uh from hokkaido as well and i thought it was one of their best sakes that they had available for us at the time it was really really good so i was extremely excited when i heard that brooklyn hur got their hands on some so let's talk first about the aroma it's a little i get like um it's hard to describe it's like the aroma is almost like it makes me think of sweet things for me i get a little vegetal note like a little something leafy green or a little vegetal there's some rice in there too and i i get what you're saying there's a little bit of compacted sweetness as well yeah yeah and for whatever reason with my my sinuses it's like going right for it it's like i detect that sweetness in a uh immediately latch on the flavor profile on the palette is for me more like rice forward and not fruity or juicy too much but it's a little bit cleaner than most brooklyn kura sake brooklyn kura tends to be more fruit forward juicy and viscous in texture a little richer in texture and this is a leaner This is not dry on the finish, but more balanced and definitely rice forward.

6:00I know that the parents of Kitashizuku rice are Ginpu and Omachi. So these are the two rices that were blended together to make Kitashizuku. And you can kind of see the resemblance to Omachi a little bit. Like it's got that ricey, earthy, but it's, it's a little bit more restrained than full on omachi rices. I think. I agree wholeheartedly. And we, you know, one thing that's very interesting to me is that like, as you pointed out, Brooklyn Curry usually goes for a more of a fruity vibe in their sake. It's kind of what they're, I'd say, you know, what they're known for in a lot of circles. And when I learned to use this rice, they went fruity.

6:48but with Brooklyn Kura getting their hands on the rice, they looks like they wanted to showcase the rice and not the Brooklyn Kura fruit. It's like, you've had that already. This is a different product. We want you to try something a little bit different. And I think that's pretty cool. I like it when breweries get out of their comfort zone and try new things. This is really easy drinking. It's really light to me. and the, as you pointed out, there is that rice-forward flavor, but it's a really pleasant, I think if you've had rice-forward odmachi and then you just kind of turn it down a few notches, you're very close to where we're at here.

7:26It's really nice and very, very drinkable. One thing that's very interesting about this is that in addition to being the first time they're using rice from Japan, this rice was actually milled in a different way than probably the rest of the rice they've used before. So there's a thing that's been popular in the last few years in Japan of flat milling or flat polishing. They realize that when you try to polish the oval shape of the rice grain, you don't always get as much shimpaku as you want, at least not without milling pretty far. But with the flat milling, which they're calling a henpei, they're able to get more of that starchy, more of that shampaku, that starchy center, and leave out a little bit more of the fats while doing it in a less labor-intensive way.

8:19So you're losing less of your product. You're losing less of your rice. This was only milled to 65%. I've seen flat polishing sakes that were very ginjo that were like 80%. And so, you know, it's a very interesting technique. We talked about in episodes past when we talked about rice milling, It's like if you have 10 kilograms of rice and you mill it down at 50%, you are down to five kilograms of rice effectively. So you're losing a lot less of it to get to the flavor you want. If you indulge me, I have a great way to think about this henpe flat polishing. If you think about flat polishing, it's a little hard to envision.

9:03So let me lay this on you. So if you imagine the rice grain starting like an egg shape, right? If you think about one grain of rice and it's rounded, maybe you can envision it shaped like an egg. In traditional polishing, you're going to put it through this mill, which drops it over a milling stone again and again. And at the end of the day, you end up with something that's like baseball shaped, you know? So you go from egg shape to baseball shape. But with the henpei process, it's milled in a different way and you get a football shape instead of a baseball shape. So it flattens the grain out and preserves more of the shimpaku, more of the core on the edges of it.

9:49So I've found that, you know, using these analogies of like baseball to football, you get more of a visual of what you're going to end up with. I like that. And of course, the shape of a football is much more similar to an egg than a baseball is. Yeah. So there's kind of like less wastes of the shinpaku. Yeah. Yeah. It's great. I think it's a, it's a, I love technology. and this rice was um it was able to be brought over because of the rice factory have you heard of the rice factory yeah well actually i looked them up when i saw this and it turns out that if i wanted to get some some eating rice from like toyama i can order from them they've got it yeah so yeah they're bringing japanese rice and selling it to america and they're milling it like Like they're doing the milling of themselves.

10:46They're milling it up to order from what I understand. And you can kind of choose like where you want it from, which I think is like really cool. Not like literally every prefecture, but they've got quite a few. It's a nice little selection. Yeah. So the rice factory is like a rice importer and they do the milling. And as you said, you can order the rice from different prefectures. The town where I lived in Niigata is very famous for rice and they import that regularly. So if you're interested in high-end eating rice from Japan, which I highly recommend, the Rice Factory is where it's at. Here in New York, it's available in all the Japanese supermarkets.

11:24They have rice from the Rice Factory. They put the import date and the milling date, and it's all on the label. It's in brown craft paper, brown bags. And I highly recommend them. They bring in great rice. And Tim is not overselling it? When I visited Tim at Hakai San a few years back, we had a meal at the company cafeteria. Is that the right way to put it? The company cafeteria? Brewery cafeteria? Yep. And one of the dishes was just a bowl of rice. And I was kind of like, just a plain bowl of rice, huh? Okay. And then I tasted it and I was like, oh, this rice needs nothing. This rice by itself is phenomenal.

12:09This is great. I kept going on and on about the rice. I was very happy with it. Yeah. It's one thing I miss the most from Japan is the rice. But through the Rice Factory, we can get some of those rices here. So that's amazing. And apparently if you're a sake brewery, you can also make sake with the rice from them. Yeah. There's a lot of crossover there. It's very exciting. Well, that was lovely. And Tim, thank you very much for tasting with me and compiling with me. Yes. So now I got to ask you, how was your 2025 from a Sake Revolution standpoint? Yeah, it was good. I think you and I were both very busy in our careers.

12:51Yes, very much so. Our personal lives as well. A lot going on. So we may not have gotten as many episodes out as we wanted or as we have in the past. But quality over quantity, right, JP? I think so. No, I think so. Definitely quality over quantity. Because the quantity was... Yeah. But I will say this. We are still going. Like, that is the main thing. Like, we are still at it. We occasionally slow, but we never stop. That's right. So, jumping into the Wayback Machine, I want to take us back to the beginning of 2025. We had lofty plans for this year. Your Sake Revolution resolution, if I'm not mistaken, was that you wanted to start doing some back to basics education episodes.

13:50And you know what? We did it. We got it in right under the buzzer. That was the last episode we published in 2025. Did you actually publish that on New Year's Eve? Maybe. Depends what time zone you're in. But very well, very well. So we did it. We got it done. That's I think that's one of the good things about resolutions is that, you know, there is a time limit. And if you want to make something happen, the time limit comes if you get it done. I think that's the important thing. Like the accomplishment is the important thing. And I did wait till the last minute, but it still got done. And I'm happy about that.

14:32So on a technicality, on a technicality. No, it's not technicality. The rule is 2025. You did it. There's no technicality here. You didn't fudge the numbers. No, no, no, no, no. If you flew to Alaska to release the episode because you were running out of time, then maybe I'd say technicality. But you didn't. Perfect. Yeah. Yeah. By the skin of my teeth. Yes, absolutely. But it got done. And I, I, the, the thing that I'm happy about is that the impetus behind the resolution was to bring back the topics that are of concern to people who are beginners or just getting into sake. And there are more and more and more of those all the time.

15:22So I think our podcast should be a resource for people who are getting into sake and need help with the first steps. I agree. And then so, yeah, I think that every now and again, revisiting. And I think we talked about how, you know, maybe maybe we've gotten a little bit better at this, too. I hope. We need to go back and listen to those first episodes. No, I was a little rough. I think you sound the same, but I think I was definitely a little rough. But yeah, good times. Yeah. Now on my end of things. Yeah, let's hear it. And this story brings us back to 2024, where I failed to complete my resolution.

16:09And so what I did for 2025 was I did two. I said I was going to do two resolutions. And, you know, for a moment, did I think, John, are you biting off more than you can chew? Yes, I did. I did think that. But I did it for the most part. And this one, probably a few more caveats on mine than there were on yours. But in my case, I was going to do two things. One, I was going to take a photo of every bottle of sake that I had a glass of this year. And by that, I mean, if I have like a sip at a tasting event, I'm not taking a picture of the bottle because the tasting events, there are hundreds of sakes.

16:44I'm not doing that. And the other thing was I was going to engage in some formal sake education. That was the other thing I was going to do. And I did both of them. Congratulations. Thank you. Tell me more. Tell me more. So I now have a WSET Level 1 Sake Award certification. What do they call it? Certification. Certification. Thank you. And I've got a nice little certificate and I've got a pin. Did it. I did the thing. And the other thing I did was take a lot of photos of sake. We came out with 306 pictures. but some of the pictures have more than one bottle in them. Yeah. And I haven't gone through to figure out where that comes from.

17:27There are, I will say this up front, a couple of evenings where something's escaped. That's all right. But they were fun evenings. Yes. They were wonderful, exciting, fun evenings that I'm just missing pictures of and perhaps memories. No, that's not true. I do remember. I just didn't take photos anyway. So yeah, we did it. We both accomplished our stated objectives. Now, we didn't make a Sake Revolution show resolution last year. No, I guess yours was sort of what. Mine was tied to the show. Yeah. Okay. But I guess now the question is, what are we going to do for this year? Oh, yeah. the ever the ever evolving revolution resolution question is is at our doorstep again yes it's back and i'll tell you i agonized for a while about mine really because well you want to do something big and outside of your comfort zone and fun but you don't want to do something that you aren't going to actually accomplish and therefore end up having to do two in 2027.

18:44So I tried my best to, uh, to come up with something, um, realistic, achievable, but tricky. Um, what about you? What'd you do? Well, my 2025 resolution was related to the show. and I think for 2026 I'm going to do something that's still connected to sake but a little bit closer to home a little bit more personal alright okay did you kind of know what you wanted to do right away or was this something you had to kind of think about a bit no I thought about it quite a bit okay yeah yeah so I guess the question now is who's going to go first yeah you go first alright this year I am going to challenge myself to in one way or another participate in making sake.

19:33Hmm. And I have a few avenues open to me for this. I can try home brewing or I can talk to one of my friendly neighborhood brewer friends and ask them if they have a couple of days that they wouldn't mind around doing some things. Or there are some education opportunities that involve brewing sake that I can look into as well. So I have options available to me, but I have not figured out how I'm going to brew sake yet. And, you know, if I do something like that, then it's, you know, my expectation will not be that I make something from, you know, from washing to bottling. I think that's a little unrealistic.

20:10But I do think that I would need to get sufficient hands on as a result of the project. So, you know, pitching the East is not enough. What if I were to work on Koji and then also stirring and monitoring or pressing something like that? I don't know. I would have to be a substantial part of making a batch, I think, in order for it to count. And then, of course, like I mentioned earlier, the other avenue was, of course, homebrewing. So we'll figure it out. We'll figure out what it'll make for a good story for the show. Yeah, so that's what I'm going to try and do this year, Tim. So what about you?

20:49What are you going to do? Well, wait, before we go there, what— I'm just trying to speed right through. No, no, no. I'm not going to let you off the hook. So what I've, I have made sake in the past. I've worked at a brewery for a year. You worked at a brewery and it's not fun and it's really hard to produce like super yummy sake. So I'm wondering what's the motivation to be the person in the brewery making sake? What's like, what's, what's your idea behind the motivation? I think it'll be highly educational. I think that you understand something better when you have had your hands in it. Yeah.

21:34You know, I'm sure you've done cooking before and you, I think you appreciate a dish a lot more when you've been in the kitchen helping prep that dish. Because you understand what goes into making it. You understand where the variables are a little bit more, where things can go wrong. You know, what, what influences it. And you understand it in a real way that is more than reading it in a book or watching somebody else. Yeah. You know, I feel like hands-on education is super important. And I think I will get a much better appreciation for a lot of aspects of sake that perhaps I didn't before. Maybe it's hard to know because I don't, my thought is I'm going to learn things and I, because I don't know them yet, I don't know what I'm going to learn.

22:21It just seems like a really fun thing to do. And it seems like something that will really help me understand sake better. I applaud that. I think that's great. And that's exactly why I moved to Japan for a year and I lived in rural Niigata and made sake for one year. Not because I wanted to become a brewer, but because I wanted to be in the trenches and I wanted to learn what physically goes into making sake. and I can tell you it really ramps up your appreciation when you get your hands on a good sake you're like wow like they worked hard on this one so I respect that a lot and I think it's a great goal so I'm excited to see how it works out in your year like what what path you take by the way everybody at home there's no scenario where I'm going where my plan is to move to Japan for a year that is not in the cards is not part of the equation it is not even uh no it's not in the same league it is not even the same sport well there's lots of ways to experiment with sake brewing lots of home brewers and lots of breweries around new york so i'm sure you'll you'll find a way to make it happen it's exciting i'm excited i think it's gonna be fun yeah um Win, lose, or draw, it'll be fun.

23:47So, now, what about you? Okay, so for me, I have been running Urban Sake for 20 years. No kidding, is it 20 now? Yes, it's 20, yes. So, we are currently in the 20th year of Urban Sake. And one thing that I used to produce was a sake tasting notebook. And I have a resolution this year to re-release it and start selling it again on my website. During the pandemic, it kind of went the way of all things and I didn't put any priority on it. but I've come to have the idea that I think it would be something that's really good to bring back. So for 2026, I want to bring back a new and improved version of my sake tasting notebook.

24:44And it, I have a lot of ideas to make it better and make it more fun and make it something that people can purchase. And I can't give away all the details right now, but it's exciting to think about different ways I can make recording your notes about sake more engaging, fun, and interesting. And it is a totally analog solution. I'm not doing an app. I'm not doing anything online. But yeah, so in 2026, I want to release the version 2.0 of the Urban Sake Tasting Notebook with all the new bells and whistles, and it'll be a celebration of 20 years of Urban Sake. That is fantastic. Yeah. I hope there's some like 20th anniversary signage on the cover.

25:37I think that would be fun. That's my goal. I think that it's something that is a very, very small contribution to the sake community, something that people can pick up, not too expensive, and something they can bring with them in their bag and keep their notes in an old school way. And I really loved doing that when I was learning about sake. So I want to get that back out there in the world. And I've had time to think about ways that I can improve the product and make it even more fun to try different sakes. And I'm really excited to get that back out there. So I'll talk about that more in the future.

26:19Very cool. Very cool. I like it. Now there's something else we're going to talk about. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So in addition to our personal revolution resolutions, there's something else we want to do. And that is to have a sake revolution resolution for sake revolution. And yes. So Tim, how do you want to, how do you want to break this one? How do you want to talk about this? Well, we have been doing the podcast for five years. God, really? I know. Yes. Yes, five years. And one thing that I like about what we've done over the last five years is that we've been evolving and growing and changing and adapting our way of doing things, seeing what works, what doesn't work.

27:12and you and I have talked a lot about the format of the show and we think that there are some ways that this year we can evolve the show to make it even better and more interactive for our listeners. Yes. Yeah. And how are we going to do that? Yeah. Well, there's one word. Okay. Yeah. One word. So this year, I'm not going to say exactly when, But at some point in this year, our plan is to evolve Sake Revolution from an audio-only podcast to a video podcast. Whoa. How do you like them apples, John? One thing that I've noticed is that, you know, obviously our good looks are wasted on radio. And that this is, you've clearly done the research and that's the feedback you've gotten.

28:08And who am I to debate the wisdom of crowds? Give the masses what they want. You know, by the way, I like that Hibbett to Video was like a big thing in like 2015 and 2016. But now in 2026, we're getting around to it. Yeah. No one's ever accused us of jumping ahead of the curve. No, no. I think it's more important to do tried and true technique rather than leaping ahead. Yeah. So maybe we can talk about why we think adding a video component. And the first thing to say for all of our listeners is that if you are an audio podcast listener, there is not going to be any change for you. We're still going to release the podcast as an audio only version.

28:57So we are adding, in addition, a video component that you'll be able to see on YouTube and on video on Spotify as well. So we're going to be making an addition of video. But if you like the audio version and that's what you want to consume, then that will not be changing. Right, John? Right. Right, exactly. Now, there may be situations where we make reference to something in our hands that you can't see. But that's what the show notes are for, I imagine. Yeah. and and i figure there'll probably be a touch less um a touch less editing involved because it's trickier to edit video it's very true it is it's a different it's a different ball of wax you know it's different beast a lot more preparation and a lot less forgiveness when you screw up yes Yes.

29:47Well, maybe we can reveal that maybe before the middle of the year. Tim, Tim, we said it's this year's resolution. This could happen on New Year's Eve next year. We don't know. That's right. We have to give ourselves a long runway. Yes, yes. However, no, no. All kidding aside, it's something that we would like to do somewhere around mid-year. I think we think that would be a lot of fun, and we think it's something that's doable. With enough prep. Yeah. And we're also very excited to welcome guests on the show and have them appear in video. I think that's really exciting. Yeah. And there have been video episodes of many different sake podcasts, but when we convert to video full-time, I think we're going to be the world's first video podcast dedicated to sake.

30:41So that's super exciting. Yeah. I think it's going to be fun. It's going to be a good time. Yeah. And I hope people are ready to see him this Sunday evening, scruffy face, John Puma, because, uh, John, that is why the good Lord invented the beauty filter. Oh, is that what it is? Yes. Oh, I'm letting all the secrets out. I'm letting all the secrets out. No, no, no. We're going to, we're going to keep it real. I think it's really exciting. I've listened back to some of our shows and we have had things like we talked about labels or we've talked about different places and you know we had to describe what we're looking at but with the video podcast we will be able to really show and honestly that's what i'm really excited about it's gonna be nice it's gonna be fun yeah if we have a a really unique label we're looking at we can show it if we're talking about a place in japan we can throw up some b-roll and show what that looks like some b-roll yeah and you got to learn the lingo i know i know i know they're i know the lingo i was just surprised to hear from you don't forget that that i was doing video that's right a long time ago i was in video before i did this the sake notes the sake notes hard what are we doing it is hard I think it's going to be fun.

32:09And I'm excited about the future. I'm excited about the 2026 Sake Revolution Adventure. Yes, I think it's going to be a great year. We've got our plans laid out ahead of us. I don't know if, am I required to drink the sake you're going to be making? I might need some coercing. I will make that call after I've tasted it. Okay, good. All right. If I think it's something that I want other people, other humans to experience, I will share it. If I do not, if it just quietly disappears, we'll tell you. It'll be a fun story. Yeah. Well, whatever you do, just document what you do. Oh, yeah. That's the plan.

32:52It'll be like sake journalism. You know, we'll find out, good, bad, or ugly, we'll find out what happens with John Puma's Moromi. Oh, yeah. John Puma's Moromi. mini series alright well I'm so happy to have our plan laid out for 2026 and I want to say a special thank you to all of our listeners who tuned in today and all of our listeners who've been with us for five years that is amazing I know just fantastic so if you've been a long time listener special thank you to you today and stay with us for 2026 and our launch into video podcasting in the near future. I also want to say a special, very special hello to all of our supporters who join us from Patreon.

33:47If you enjoy the Sake Podcast Revolution, one of the best ways to support what we do here, we present this all without ads and sponsorships, But we do have a Patreon to help support our efforts here. And we have a wonderful team in our community at Patreon who support the show month in and month out. And we want to send a very special thank you for all your support in 2025. And we're looking forward to a fun and exciting 2026. If you'd like to support the show on Patreon, visit patreon.com slash sake revolution. And if Tim and John on Sake Revolution isn't enough Tim and John for you, well we also have social media so uh tim where can people find you on social media yeah the best place to reach me is on urban sake so that's my sake education website that you know i've been running for all these years and the best way to do that is you can visit urban sake.com or on instagram at urban sake and i look forward to hearing from all of you thanks so much.