California AG Answers Our Burning Questions and Why Creators Don’t Want To Be Called Journalists

0:00Jasmine Enberg: Hi, everyone. This is Scalable, a weekly show about the business of the creator economy. I'm Kaya Yurieff. And I'm Jasmine Enberg. Every Thursday, we take you beyond the headlines to tell you what's happening, what it means, and why it matters. I didn't know podcasting was so dangerous. Hi, Jasmine. Hi, Kaya. It's so good to be in person. It's time. It's time. It's also very windy, clearly. Oh, no. I'm screaming. Oh, no. Are you okay? Yes. I'm wet. Are we still rolling? That just really missed. I saw my light flash for my eyes. Wow, we made it out alive.

0:42Jasmine Enberg: Hi, Jasmine. Hi, Kaya. It's so Christian in person. We're at South Byte Austin. It is 98 degrees. Honestly, it's been so cool the entire time we've been here. And then I looked at the weather app this morning. And the second we were coming here to film, it was going to be 95 degrees. It's crazy. So I have been to South By a few years in a row now, and my little hobby that I do is I look at the flyers around the convention center. I am so impressed by that. You always have this eye for looking at every tiny little detail. And when I went to an event by myself recently, you were like, make sure you take pictures of everything, like all the things that you wouldn't think about.

1:18And that's actually how that Fry's picture that I took at Dhar Mann Studios came about.

1:23Jasmine Enberg: No, because it's like, it's all about the color and the details. And I think when you're thinking about traditional reporting, the story's all in the details. I know. And you know what it made me think of? That's exactly how I approach a research report where I'm looking for all the teeny tiny details and stuff that's hidden. And it's the same thing. Anyway, I was looking back at my articles. And I'm happy because I don't have all my notes organized. I'm not organized like that. But I looked at all my published stories. And this is the first year of South By since 1993 without the convention center.

1:49Jasmine Enberg: But normally, I would go to the convention center and I would look at all the flyers there. Now I've been looking at the flyers around. But 2023, lots of crypto and NFT. Wow. Sorry, 2022. Wow, things have changed. 2022 was crypto and NFTs. Then that was replaced in 2023 with AI. Then the last two years, we've seen creators start to take over. AI obviously has been a through line. It was like AI in 2023 was kind of early, no? It was early, but it was bubbling. It was like the Hollywood strikes time. Yes. So that actually does make a lot of sense. It was bubbling. I went back and checked. Now that we don't have the convention center, there's still flyers all over.

2:23Jasmine Enberg: But it felt to me like it is a bit more of a disparate experience now. South by has always been spread out, but the anchor was really the convention center. And we even walked by and we were like, wait, is this where it was? Like, it is dirt. It is level. I took a video of it, too, because I was shocked. Yeah, it's completely gone. And these are some of the flyers I've seen. So I've seen AI, specifically AI agents. I've also seen deep fakes and one with the slogan, who validates what's real. So these are all very much things that we're talking about now. But then the rest are all over the map.

2:53Jasmine Enberg: I saw one about like reframing dyslexia as a hyper ability. The most provocative intriguing, have you seen these? The missing alpaca? Wait, I saw that this morning, but it was half torn and I couldn't make sense of it. Tell me. Yes, okay, so I obviously scanned the QR code. I took the bait. Yeah, when you scan the QR code, it's actually advertising an events business called WeRoad. I'm giving them free promotion now. It's working. Which runs small group trips to 140 destinations worldwide, hence like the camel and the alpaca. So like these are all over the map and I feel like that's sort of the theme of South By a little bit this year is like, yes, AI is there.

3:26Jasmine Enberg: But like this conference has become so big that there isn't really a common through line. And like, you know, we've talked about AI so many years. So that was sort of interesting to me. And it's also all over the map physically kind of, right? Because without the convention center, we're going from hotel to hotel for different sessions and different events. And I have to say, it is nice not to be in a stuffy convention center. They're not very charming places. and it's kind of in Finnish, you have this saying that it's already breathed air, which is what I always feel like when I'm in a convention center.

3:54It's so accurate. I kind of wish it made sense in English, but anyway. But it is a little tougher to like navigate going from one hotel to the next, especially if you have back-to-back sessions, right? Like you do have to pick and choose a little bit more where you're going. And I went to the wrong hotel accidentally yesterday, but I think two people in my check-in. I know, it's true. I was gonna say, I think it says more about me than anything else. Yeah. And I think you're right. I mean, AI is obviously a huge theme, But one thing that stood out to me yesterday when we were at that roundtable lunch with Digital Voices, we were all going around the room and it was a group of brands and advertisers talking about what their biggest challenge was at the moment in influencer marketing.

4:30And AI did not come up until the very last person. There was what, like maybe 30 of us there? We heard about scale issues, about measurement issues. Also, the other thing that I noticed that was interesting on that front was that it was very mixed in terms of whether the people felt that they had buy-in from the C-suite. Like it feels like that isn't as much of a problem anymore that C-level executives really do understand. Yeah, they get it. They know that they need to be working with creators, but now it's about kind of how do we do that and how do we do it effectively and at scale. Okay, so I loved your first panel.

5:03Jasmine Enberg: So it was about Hollywood and creators. You had Julian Shapiro Barnum of Recess Therapy, which is a show, if you haven't seen it, he interviews kids and often brings on celebrities. Corn Kid. I'm sure you've seen Corn Kid. Have you seen it? Yes, yes. That's Julian. Yes. Also, you had Jeremy Lowe of Dick Clark Productions and Amanda MacArthur from Doing Things. So what stood out to you? Because I have my takeaways, but I want to hear what you thought. There were a lot of standout moments, but I think one that I've been thinking about a lot since that session is what Julian said about when he's inviting high-profile people, powerful people, usually celebrities onto his show, but there's this quote-unquote silent handshake between them that he's not going to ask them hard questions, that he's not going to be pushing them the way that a traditional journalist would.

5:42I mean, this has really stuck with me. I mean, obviously there is a difference, right? Like he's making mostly comedy, not hard news. And like, there's always been a difference between whether you're going on a Jimmy Kimmel or if you're going on Caitlin Collins show on CNN. But now as we're seeing the lines between comedy and politics and creators blur so heavily, you're also seeing politicians and government officials turn to creators instead of traditional reporters to spread political messages. Like it makes me very worried about accountability. You know, if they're not asking the tough questions, I mean, who is, right?

6:16Jasmine Enberg: That's stuck out to me as well, because I think so much we've seen creators adopt the journalist kind of tagline or they've described themselves as independent journalists, but they don't have journalism training. And obviously me as someone, you went to J school, I went to J school. I've spent 10 years in traditional newsrooms like that has worried me. But I feel like this is the first time that I'm noticing creators really acknowledge the difference. And when I was scrolling on Instagram last night before going to bed, I saw this interview with Rolling Stone and Jake Shane pop up on my reels.

6:47Jasmine Enberg: And he was very blunt. I want to read these quotes because I think they're very, they kind of illustrate this. But he basically said that, you know, if a guest wants, you know, him to cut something out, he always does it. And he says he wants people to feel comfortable on the show. And this is the quote. I think it is insulting to journalists to say what I do is journalism. I'm not a journalist. I didn't go to school for journalism. And then he goes on to say that journalists are asking, you know, real hard, thoughtful questions. And quote, what I'm having with people is a conversation. So like these two together, I was like, wow.

7:18Jasmine Enberg: I mean, to hear it so bluntly, I haven't heard that in the same way. I mean, I was shocked, but also had so much respect for Julian for actually saying it out loud. And same thing with Jake. I mean, you know, like you said, we both went to J school. There's a lot of training that goes behind, you know, how to actually do real journalistic work. And it's not to say that creators can't be telling stories. They are. But if you don't have those skill sets built in from the beginning, it is really worrisome. But one of the things I thought about after we talked about that earlier today is that it feels almost like creators might be kind of waking up to the responsibility as well as the risk of being a journalist, right?

7:55I mean, it is not easy work and it comes—there's a lot of accountability there too, no?

8:01Jasmine Enberg: No, 100%. And we will be talking about this later on the show with the Attorney General of California. Which we're very excited about. Who himself has been on a bit of a podcast tour, including ours. So we asked him all about that later in the show. So you also interviewed Tyler Dink, who is the CEO and co-founder of Beehive, which is where we publish our newsletter. I found that session fascinating because it was like, I was like taking notes because I was like, okay, well, this is good for us. I mean, I turned into a minute consulting session, which he called me out on. Yeah, he's like, oh, well, this is just a consulting session now.

8:27Jasmine Enberg: Thank you, thank you. But you guys also talked generally kind of about the newsletter landscape, but he dropped quite a bit of news on stage too, which was great. Yeah, he told us that Beehive will be launching a podcasting feature soon. At first, it's audio only, but still a major move for the platform. He also said that they're going to be launching paywalled video and community features as well. So they have been very busy over there because they also have been launching features since about November. But they're definitely building out that platform. I think the other thing that, you know, has stood out to me from that session is we spent a lot of time.

9:00Oh, I was peppering him a little bit. He spent a lot of time positioning Beehive against Substack, which of course is synonymous with newsletters and was one of the other newsletter providers that we were considering when we launched Scalable. And the way he said it was that Substack is Amazon and Beehive is Shopify. And what he meant by that is that basically Beehive functions like an operating system for the creator economy. They're building the infrastructure on which newsletters and media businesses within the creator economy live. whereas you have Substack then trying to really build a platform.

9:31And we're seeing that, you know, with the launch of their community features, they have short videos to allow discovery and keeping that all within the Substack ecosystem. Of course, you know, one of the things I said on stage two, and one of the reasons we went with Beehive is that all Substacks look the same, right? And Beehive is much more customizable, and you don't always know that it's a Beehive newsletter at all. And that has its pros and cons. Like, Substack is recognizable, Beehive isn't. And they just brought in a new CMO. And Tyler said part of that is an effort to change it. But I think, you know, listening to him talk about how they're really building the infrastructure for these newsletters and media businesses, it was very reminiscent about how LTK describes its business, too.

10:11Obviously, they have a standalone app as well that now has social features. But they really have been powering social commerce across different platforms through their affiliate links for a very long time. And that's how they position their company as well. And just thinking about, you know, as you're building businesses in this industry, it feels like it's these infrastructural companies that have an easier time breaking through and in a lasting way. It's very hard to build a new social network. We have so many options already, but being that kind of infrastructure layer seems to have a little bit more staying power.

10:42But who knows? I could be wrong on that. What stood out to you?

10:46Jasmine Enberg: Well, I was taking notes. I was like in my notes app like, okay, I started recording it midway through. I was like, I should record this from the beginning. But we were very excited because they announced that we surpassed 10 ,000 subscribers on our newsletter, which we're very excited about. And I think Tyler, you know, he also has started his own newsletter, which now has more than 100 ,000 subscribers. 120 ,000. 120 ,000, excuse me. But he talked a little bit about, like, the lead magnets he's used, the referral program. So, for example, he, you know, gathers emails in different ways, like, you know, sharing Beehive's remote work policy, their Series A financing deck, and like all these kind of tactical things, you know, previewing your newsletter the day before on LinkedIn and driving people, email gating everything, which is something that we do as well.

11:26Jasmine Enberg: And also I thought what was so interesting about what he said was the positioning of it. I think as we've moved away from kind of these follower accounts, the same thing has happened with newsletters where it's like, okay, yes, it's impressive to say your newsletter has 400 ,000 subscribers. Great. But he pointed to their creator spotlight newsletter as an example where he's like, 100 ,000 people read that every single day. That is the stat that you should point out to advertisers. And then also the niche that they're in, right? Maybe it's a newsletter with 10 ,000 HR professionals or whatever it is.

11:55Jasmine Enberg: So here is people interested in the creator economy, emerging creators. 100 ,000 of them are reading it every day. So just the positioning of that versus just the top level number I think was interesting too. Yeah, and I think it's not a growth at all cost, right? You don't want to keep growing, especially if it compromises other metrics like your open rate, right? And you don't want to alienate your core audience just to bring on more subscribers. And we talked quite a bit about, you know, does a new subscriber at some point start to lose value, right? And at what point does that happen? That was an interesting question you asked him.

12:25Jasmine Enberg: Like, is every subscriber created equal? Right. And also, is every subscriber created equal in terms of do our 10 ,000 subscribers for scalable, are they equivalent to 10 ,000 subscribers of a recipe newsletter? And he had an interesting answer to that, too, about, like, yes and no, right? I mean, obviously we're in a niche, but depending on the recipe newsletter, it can be just as valuable. Lots to unpack there, and we'll be exploring that more later on. And in our own business behind the scenes, for sure. You can probably see a referral program from us soon. So one of my favorite sessions, if not my absolute favorite session to watch, was you on stage with Rhett and Link from Good Mythical Morning, as well as Arthur Leopold from Argentio.

13:06It was such a fun and fascinating conversation, although I'm not surprised because Rhett and Link are hysterical. They were also celebrating their 3 ,000th episode of Good Mythical Morning and there was a massive crowd in the room. So what did you take away from that? Because there were so many moments.

13:20Jasmine Enberg: It was so funny moderating that panel because they were you know equal parts funny but also insightful so you had to sort of like lean into that and kind of balance that right. You did such a good job and Link said so at dinner too. I know I appreciated that. He said you played it perfectly which I totally agree. You let him say a thing and then you let it sit silently for a minute before moving on. I think so many people when they're moderating are so focused on the questions and the next thing and you have to sort of see where the conversation goes and just give it a minute because then sometimes someone adds something really interesting.

13:48Jasmine Enberg: Same thing with kind of interviews. And they certainly did add interesting things. I mean, we ended the conversation talking about farting. Yeah. So that tells you everything you need to know. But there were lots of insightful things in there. It's fascinating to hear a little bit more about their business. They have 90 employees in LA now. They've been doing this for 14 years. And I think what was interesting to hear from them about is how short form is actually such an important kind of almost marketing vehicle for them. Right. Like they said that short form is important to like remind people that they're still doing this.

14:15Jasmine Enberg: And I thought that was interesting because they have more than 30 million combined YouTube subscribers. So that's a huge number. And they have a show that people keep coming back to and spend a lot of time with. But the fact that they're using shorts and need to use shorts still to do that. I also loved hearing about kind of some of their early brand deals. And, you know, 2006, 2007, there was a tongue scraper company. What do they call it? An Aura Brush? Yeah, an Aura Brush. And then a cornhole company. And they were physically calling up these companies. And that was their first advertiser, right?

14:44Jasmine Enberg: Yes, the cornhole one, which, like, they had made a cornhole song. And they called. And I was like, where? What is happening? You know, now they're doing, you know, big, you know, Clorox and these big brands and a Toyota commercial. But we talked a little bit about kind of that evolution. And Rhett really wants to work with Rivian. I know. He probably wasn't clear. I did ask him, I forget if it was an audience question or from me, but we asked him on stage, you know, what brand does he want to work with? And it was funny because they had this fun dynamic. You can tell kind of, you know, they do their bits and it translated on stage.

15:09Jasmine Enberg: But Link was like, you already have a Rivian. Why do you want to partner with Rivian? You want another one? I mean, I thought he was kidding because Rivian is the sponsor of South by Southwest. So there was a big Rivian sign above you guys. And I thought he was just kidding. No, he's a big fan of Rivian. He has some of the Rivian cars. I was so interested about what they said about brand deals too because they kind of took us back to that very first brand deal that cornhole one I don't remember what product it was exactly but something related to cornhole and they said they actually put that brand deal at the very top of their very first episode over a decade ago and it cost$300 apparently or they made$300 off of it obviously they charge much more now but it was I hope so too but the reason that they did that is because they wanted to make sure that the audience knew that there was going to be brands and commercials integrated into their content.

15:56And they said this was very much around the time when so many people were afraid of looking like they were selling out by incorporating brands into the content. And it's also very different than a lot of the strategies we hear from creators even today. Right. I mean, we talked to the Tiger Sisters during our live podcast, which we'll talk about in a little bit. And they waited quite some time. A year. A year before they started bringing on sponsorships. And, you know, we're taking a similar approach to that and being very mindful of, you know, who we bring on as a sponsor or as a partner. But it was interesting to hear that they did that immediately.

16:27And I don't think there really is a right answer. I do think we're probably more now in a position where everybody knows how creators are making money, which is, you know, through sponsorships and ads. So it was a fascinating, fascinating journey to hear. Also, our chart was on stage. I know. That was really fun.

16:44Jasmine Enberg: So we had some slides and our scalable chart was on stage. I think another chart that we showed was that in 2026, brands will spend$800 billion on digital ads and creators will only get 1.5 % of that. And so I asked Arthur Leopold what that number should be. And he said it should follow attention so that it should be at least 50%, which is something you've also said in your reports. But we talked a little bit about kind of the challenges still, right? Like the influencer marketing industry has come so far, but brands haven't totally shifted. And what will it take to kind of get there? So podcasting has obviously become a huge part of South by Southwest.

17:17This year, I counted that there were at least 20 sessions in the official programming dedicated to podcasting, whether that was live podcasts, like one that we did actually here on Friday night, or other sessions like the one that you moderated this morning, which is more broadly about the industry and the landscape or things like measurement challenges. And obviously one of the highlights of our week, of course, was doing the live show here earlier. We spoke to Jordan Newman, who's the head of content partnerships at Spotify, as well as the co-host of Tiger Sisters, which is a top business podcast on Spotify as well.

17:48So, Kaya, thinking back to Friday night, which feels like it was like two weeks ago, but it was really what, only two days ago? Yeah. What stood out to you? What were the highlights?

17:57Jasmine Enberg: Well, it was fun to hear kind of the behind the scenes. I mean, they are real life sisters, Shereen and Jean. And they actually live together, which I didn't realize. And they suggested that we move in together. And I'm like, we're friends. But I don't know how our partners might feel about that. That's like a bit too much, I think. But she kind of made a joke, but not being like, well, how do you think we built so fast? And it's been amazing to see their growth over the past year and a half. I mean, to go to the number one business podcast on Spotify, they've grown more than 130 ,000 subscribers on YouTube.

18:27Jasmine Enberg: So it was fun to chat with them a bit about their strategy. They've gone to the top Ivy League schools. You know, they've worked at tech companies and they really approached kind of this as a startup and testing and looking at the metrics and all that kind of stuff. And we talked a little bit about kind of, you know, their dynamic working together, what their family thought. You know, Jean said that, you know, she thinks her mom, you know, would prefer that she stayed at Goldman Sachs. So, you know, so I think it was it was a really fun conversation and fun to sit down with them. Yeah, it was very meta, but it was also very, it was great to hear from two women who'd already built something and really get some real life tactical advice on how to build as well.

19:05But you also moderated a panel with Teffy Pessoa from the podcast Teffy Talks. She was so funny. Ray Chow, a podcasting executive at Vox, and Brandon Feldman, a YouTube podcasting executive focused on news. So I literally have Teffy in my head since this morning going, one must clip.

19:23Jasmine Enberg: We talked about clipping and I was like, okay, how do we feel about clipping too much to little? And she said one must clip. Multiple times. Then she also said, I need people to hear my voice in their dreams. And I'm like, I will. I will hear you saying one must clip in my dreams tonight. She was hilarious. And I think it's always fun to be with creators on stage. Being in a live environment is really different than, you know, when you get to edit your show and retake and all the stuff. So she shows up online just as she does in person. And I love that she has a Britney Spears poster behind her when she records.

19:53It was great.

19:54Jasmine Enberg: And similar to Rhett and Link, I mean, it was equal parts funny and some good tactical stuff in there. I mean, now, you know, I always am interested in hearing kind of the industry perspective, but I think there's an added layer now where I'm like, oh, wow, these are all things we can bring back to our work now. Especially with the clipping thing, because I know we think about, you know, how much we should be putting into short video and how much to save for the long form podcast. but my takeaway was that more is better when it comes to clipping, at least for the time being. So moving on, because while we have been gallivanting around Austin, going to see Alanis Morissette last night, for example, platforms and advertisers have been preparing for the IAB New Fronts, which is an annual event where streaming and digital media companies basically preview their programming to advertisers and try to secure ad budget in advance.

20:40And this year, the New Fronts are separate from the Up Fronts, which of course are more focused on traditional media. They're going to take place in May. New fronts are happening starting March 23rd. But this year, what else is different is that the IAB is hosting its first ever creator fronts in September. That's all about connecting creators to brands. We've actually seen a couple of versions of this. I don't know, Kaya, if you went to either of them, but I attended the Walmart Forbes creator upfront. No, I didn't. And then Botter hosted one. I think it was last year, maybe around last time.

21:11Yeah, LTK as well.

21:12Jasmine Enberg: Yeah. But I think, you know, having the IAB actually be the host of this adds a whole new level of legitimacy and also just shows how far creator content has come. Like even a couple of years ago, you would never imagine that there would have been, you know, creators who had enough pre-planned programming to be able to show to advertisers. I still think it's only a handful, right? But I'm very curious to see how all of this plays out. Also shows just how much the advertising landscape has changed. I mean, one of the reasons they've separated these is because, A, it's very, very busy during Upfront Week, but also because, you know, digital media isn't on the same kind of schedule as broadcast media is.

21:49It's always on. And so I think that was a big driver for why the IAB made these moves.

21:53Jasmine Enberg: Yeah. And before we came here, we caught up with some of the digital platforms about what they're planning for new friends. So YouTube, TikTok, LinkedIn, Meta, Snapchat, Tubi are all presenting partners. And when we talked to Brian Albert from YouTube in a previous episode, he told us that a big focus for them this year is going to be sports, which drives a lot of upfront spending. And a lot of ad spending in general, too. Yes. And also shorts. I mean, at the New Fronts, he said, we're going to be focusing more on social video and just the explosion of interest in shorts. And then they have Brandcast.

22:22Jasmine Enberg: And that's obviously a unique part of kind of the YouTube culture as well. So Jasmine, you also caught up with LinkedIn before we came here about their plans. Yeah, I chatted with Alex Josephson. He's the vice president of brand and content strategy for advertisers there. And we had a long conversation about how the B2B advertising landscape has shifted. And of course, a lot of that has to do with creators. It's also because the B2B buyer is getting younger, spending more time on social media, and that's where they're being inspired to buy things, including B2B purchases, right? He also told me more about their new Top Voices 360 program, which just launched.

22:59It builds off the Brandlink video program, which expanded last year to include creators for the first time. When it launched, I mean, LinkedIn, you must remember this too, received quite a bit of criticism because it was positioned as being a creator program, but many of the voices that were included weren't true social media creators. I think Rebecca Minkoff was one that you pointed out to me, but looking at the list of creators who are on this program now, it's clear that they are bringing in real social media creators. There's Corporate Natalie, Megan Adar, both of whom I personally love. And for those of you who don't know, Brandlink is basically a program where creators can develop original short-form videos for LinkedIn, and then advertisers can place ads against that, and creators get a cut of ad revenue.

23:42But here is more of my conversation with Alex. Hi, Alex. Welcome to Scalable. Hey, Jasmine. Thanks for having me. It's great to be here. Thanks so much for joining us. I know it is a very busy week for you with new friends coming out, and LinkedIn has some exciting announcements, including Top Voices 360. So tell us a little bit about that. We are really excited about the announcement of Top Voices 360, which is a programming platform where we identify what are the top discussed topics on LinkedIn, from AI to the C-suite to small business and founder stories, workplace culture. And then we look to find the voices on LinkedIn who are driving the outsized expertise and engagements in those topics.

24:27So if you think of Stephen Bartlett for our CEO playbook show or Corporate Natalie around workplace culture or Ramit Sethi, who's the host of How to Get Rich on Netflix or the Money for Couples podcast for our personal finance show. And these creators and these top voices, they produce a series of ongoing content in the form of a show type format exclusive to LinkedIn throughout the course of the next several months. And advertisers have the opportunity to then sponsor those programs and those shows and run their advertising within the content, within the programming. And in a lot of cases, these top voices will also produce custom content for those brand partners and those advertising partners on LinkedIn and even beyond LinkedIn, which could involve showing up at an advertiser's conference or an event, covering the event, meeting with customers, speaking on stage.

25:19So it's basically a really like a 360 degree integrated creator marketing platform for advertisers on LinkedIn in the B2B space. How many are in the program now? In Top Voices specifically, there are several shows with one hero voice attached to each topic in each franchise. More broadly speaking, Brandlink is basically like the operating service that all the sits on, which is the ability for advertisers to run ads as in-stream pre-roll against premium content for publishers or creators. And so we've not disclosed the total number of creators to date, but we have seen a number of creators on the platform double from 2021 to 2025.

26:07So you mentioned that these creators are going to be developing original content. And I think we're in this era where a lot of social platforms have pulled back on that. I mean, I'm thinking about Snapchat, for example. Also, Meta is pulled back. YouTube is even saying it's not going to revisit originals. What makes you sort of so bullish for original content on LinkedIn? And then the second part of that is, you know, who is actually developing and funding these shows? In the case of these programs, we're letting the creators drive all the creation and the production. And so LinkedIn is really a distribution platform for these voices to share content that historically has resonated with their audiences.

26:47And so we're not trying to manufacture original content from the ground up and hope that it resonates with our audience or provides value to our advertisers. We're simply facilitating the discussion and the engagement. So you also have some other announcements coming from new friends, specifically in terms of how brands and creators can find each other and work on the platform. Can you tell us a little bit more about that? That's right. Yeah. Given how nascent the B2B creator economy is to date, one thing we've heard from our customers is that it's not entirely clear how to find and pair your brand with the right B2B creator, just given the nuance of the industry and sector that many of the marketers that we work with are in.

27:30And so what you'll start to see in our campaign management tool or new functionality that allows advertisers to A, find creators who they might want to run their advertising against in terms of like a pre-roll format through a brand link platform in a self-serve way, but two, leverage all those first party data signals that we have across our creator ecosystem to actually search for and discover creators and voices on LinkedIn who meet the brand attributes and audience segments that they're trying to reach and connect with them directly through the platform for partnership. Have creators specifically been asking for this?

28:08I mean, I know that, for example, Instagram has a creator marketplace. YouTube rolled one out recently. TikTok has had one for a long time. And I think there's been, you know, quite a bit of backlash or at least criticism from creators who find that this makes it, you know, far too transactional and isn't really facilitating real relationships with brands? We're first just starting to test and learn, but it's built on the momentum we're seeing with the Brandlink program and now the Top Voices 360 program where the feedback from advertisers is positive, hence why you'll see a number of them return for renewals with the next season of the shows in the Top Voices program.

28:48And the pool of creators who are participating both in Top Voices 360 and Brandlink is growing, as are the payouts. I think the payouts have tripled year on year. And so for Brandlink and Top Voices 360, one of the advantages to the advertisers and the marketers who sponsor that content and partner with those creators is it removes a lot of the burden for the advertiser. And so if you're running pre-roll against Brandlink content from a creator or you're partnering with a top voice around custom content, All the revenue share and commercial elements are taken care of on the back end between LinkedIn and the creator.

29:29And so, of course, there's different. So, meaning brands don't have to negotiate deals with these creators. They don't have to negotiate deals with creators. It's handled, you know, through LinkedIn. That being said, like we work hand in hand with the advertiser, their media agency, their social agency, and their creator agency, specifically when it comes to producing custom content with a creator for that brand. That is a true collaborative symphony that we're very comfortable orchestrating and have seen strong results from. But the nuts and bolts of the contracting and securing the creator and handling the commercial elements, that's all taken care of on the back end through our BrandLink system and or through the agreements with the top Voice 360 talent and participants.

30:10So zooming out a little bit, because LinkedIn is originally, of course, a text-based platform, mostly full of written posts. And you've obviously been prioritizing video over the past couple of years. And that's gotten some mixed reviews and results from creators and brands that I've spoken to. So what do you say to text-based creators on LinkedIn? How should they be approaching video on the platform? Do they need to be creating it? I wouldn't recommend video for the sake of video, but you do have to think of it as a consistent through line and backbone of your content strategy now. And the reason is video content in the feed on LinkedIn sees like three times the engagement versus static content formats.

30:51Vertical video, which is immersive full screen, as you've probably seen, that sees like a 7x lift in engagement. So it is a format that is going to get an outsized response on the platform. That being said, in addition to video and vertical video, it is important to punctuate your content strategy across newsletters, articles, white papers when it's appropriate. And so keeping a strong, like, you know, diverse content mix in mind is critical. But again, video is no longer an if, but it's a necessity in terms of the backbone of any content strategy for any creator. Let's talk a little bit more broadly about the B2B creator space.

31:25I mean, one of the things you said is that B2B is behind B2C. B2C, and I think we've kind of all seen that, but now it's starting to catch up. What have been some of the sort of biggest challenges for the creator economy in the B2B space? If you're a B2B buyer, you are looking for credible information from credible experts and sources. And so you're going to seek out channels and platforms where you know exactly who it is that you're getting the information from. You know exactly who it is that you're getting the customer testimonial from or the product review from, and you want to know who they are.

32:05You want to be able to click in and see, are they who they say they are? If you're reading a hot take on the latest trend in cloud compute or a recommendation for like an agentic solution, you want to see that in an environment that's well-lit and creditable versus being sandwiched between, I don't know, you know, video game, you know, cheat codes and like the latest Lord of the Rings conspiracy. And so that's what buyers are looking for. Creators are looking for platforms in the B2B space where they don't have to take a spray and pray approach and hope that their content reaches people who are interested in it.

32:44And so on LinkedIn, they've got the ability to see exactly who it is they're reaching with their content, not just in terms of their name or their location, but their actual industry, their profession, their job, the companies they work for, the networks that they carry with them. And so that is a challenge, generally speaking, for B2B creators if you look across the broader social landscape. And where do you see the opportunity in the B2C space? I mean, I think there's so many brands that would have an opportunity to capture attention on LinkedIn. I'm thinking about airlines and hotels and even fashion brands that now cater to a B2B and a B2C audience.

33:21Yeah, totally. And by the way, I know we've been focusing a lot on B2B. I mean, in no way to alienate the fact that there's a significantly active B2C activity on the platform as it relates to brands and marketers. And so for the same reason that a B2B marketer might come to LinkedIn and rely on our unique first-party data to understand that you're trying to reach people of a certain job title or a certain profile in a certain part of the country or the world, those signals are equally important to B2C marketers. If you are trying to sell or market travel to a particular location or for an airline or a$3 ,000 handbag or any of these, those signals are equally important to the B2C marketer to understand who are they trying to reach, what is their background or profile, what state of mind might they be in.

34:17And those first-party signals are equally as important to B2C versus B2B. You mentioned Brandlink. One of my favorite examples is when Cartier was promoting their line of high-end jewelry, and they were running this full-screen, vertical jewelry ad, creative, like very high energy, built to stop the scroll. and they're running it as pre-roll in front of a segment from Bloomberg Sports about the role that luxury plays in global sports. And they're targeting it specifically to CXOs. And they see like a 26 % lift in recall as a result. And so if you're a high consideration B2C marketer, leveraging that precision targeting in a contextual environment will drive results for you throughout the funnel.

35:02Okay, last question. Who is your favorite creator to follow on LinkedIn? My favorite creator to follow on LinkedIn right now, it would in fact be corporate Natalie. I think she finds the overlap between the reality of corporate life and the moments of levity that I think we have to remember to appreciate and acknowledge. And so I think she does a really good job at breaking through the feed and building audience and building following. Yeah, I would agree with that. But I also really love her collaborations with Corporate Bro. I think they're just kind of spot on to what life is like in the workplace these days.

35:43Yeah, completely. We're excited for her to emcee our New Fronts event. Oh, that's amazing. Yeah. I'm bummed to be missing it. You can catch the replay on LinkedIn, actually. We'll be rebroadcasting the full event. Thank you so much, Alex. I look forward to watching the replay of your New Fronts presentation, especially with Corporate Natalie. Thanks, Jasmine. Appreciate you having me on the pod today. And thanks again.

36:07Jasmine Enberg: All right. And now we have our interview with Rob Bonta, the Attorney General of California. Attorney General Bonta, welcome to Scalable. Thank you for having me. Have you been to South by before? I have. This is my third time. Oh, great. Every time. Wow. Yeah, super excited. Well, we're so excited to get a chance to sit down with you. I will be honest, though. We were a little surprised to find you here. I mean, you don't expect the Attorney General of California to be at South by in Austin on a Sunday afternoon. In the 90s. I saw what the weather would be like, so I'm like, I have to be there.

36:36So tell us what you're doing here. I've come the last three years to talk usually about some initiative that my office is working on. In the past, we've talked about the attack on diversity, equity and inclusion programs. For example, this year, we're talking about reproductive health care, some of the attacks, the need for men to be important allies and leaders in this space. So that's what brings me here this time. But it's always I'm always excited and honored, privileged to have an opportunity to be here. the dialogue, the discussion, talking about our future and where we go from here as a shared society with a common future is always something I want to be a part of.

37:08So that's what I'm here for today.

37:09Jasmine Enberg: How do you feel without the convention center? We were walking by, we're like, is that where it was? It's been like totally leveled. It's been an interesting experience. We learn to be flexible. So we'll adjust and we'll, you know, wherever they'll have me, I'll be there. Yeah. So South By has attracted more and more politicians over the years. California Governor Gavin Newsom is also here. He's doing a live podcast taping with Vivian Chu, who is an amazing personal finance creator. He's arguably been the most visible Democrat on social media. We asked Senator Booker about his social media strategy, which at times, you know, is parodying the president.

37:43Jasmine Enberg: But I think overall, we've seen, you know, Democrats acknowledge they've been behind Republicans when it comes to creator strategies. I think the election was a big, you know, moment for that. And obviously that's, you know, hurt efforts, especially with young men. So what does your creator strategy look like? And how are you working with creators and thinking about creators? Well, let me first say, I think it's important for Democrats to accept and realize that we have some catching up to do. And I'll say Newsom has done some catching up very quickly in a short period of time. He kicked it into a new gear.

38:12He has a

38:12Jasmine Enberg: podcast also. He does. I mean, he kind of launched it all at once, the podcast, the parroting, the holding up the mirror to Trump. And I think it's been inspiring to folks to see the fight, the channeling of that kind of energy and it's also earned him appropriately a lot of new followers and supporters. So my approach is meet people where they're at and more and more they're no longer on sort of legacy media outlets, local media has been decimated, there's been consolidation of the traditional media outlets and there's been a democratization of creator work and engagement and news outlets in the creator space.

38:47And so we want to meet people where they are. And it's been exciting to see. It's been a positive change. And there's not just sort of three major networks anymore. There's hundreds, there's thousands. And so all with different angles and emphases and priorities. And so our goal is to be wherever we can meet the people that want to hear from us and try to make our work accessible, demystify it, kind of talk about how it affects you, your everyday life and everyday terms. and so you know we're on the places that you might think that we're on you know including a sauna podcast I know I was kind of proud of that one yeah this is my second sauna podcast in the last two months I'm also very impressed because I'm from Finland which is where saunas originated so I'd love to hear that you've done a sauna podcast and I'm kind of jealous actually I didn't even know I loved a sauna podcast yeah it's a good good platform that one was Yellow Dot Studios Esteban Gast was the host and comedian and he gets people in the sauna to sort of, turns up the heat on him literally until they commit to doing more to address the climate.

39:51And I was honored to be with him on that. But that was not a place I would maybe be three or four years ago. It's an important place to be now, an intersection of priorities and commitment to tackling our climate crisis in a fun atmosphere where maybe it's more accessible to more people. So that's the goal. And we post a lot. We try to post high value. We try to listen to what people are interested in. We heard a lot about people being interested in immigration agents breaking the law and how they could be held accountable. ICE agents, for example. And, you know, we saw some of the horrific murders, killings that may be murders in Minnesota.

40:25And so we wanted to post about that. We talked to a lot of people about scams and things to watch out for that they can protect themselves against in their real lives as affordability becomes the top issue for people to think of. And kind of interestingly, in California, there's a lot of interest in the Paramount Warner Brothers proposed. We're going to ask you about that. We are. So, you know, we just try to give high value content. We try to listen. We try to be in many places and spaces as we can and be accessible. I think sometimes people will say, California Attorney General, I'm not really sure how his work impacts my life.

40:58And there's a thousand different ways. And we want to share that with folks. Are there specific platforms that you're focused on? I mean, obviously, Governor Newsom is very prolific on Twitter now X, but that's not the only platform that he's using. So are you using TikTok, Instagram, YouTube, other channels? So we're on Facebook and Instagram. We're on X, Twitter and TikTok. We're on Blue Sky, Substack.

41:21Jasmine Enberg: There's so many. And YouTube. Those are kind of the main ones. Yeah. And we try to post consistently on all of them, have a presence, have engagement, post on high value issues that people care about. Those are kind of the focus right now. and then we're on more and more sort of creator platforms yellow dot studios is one crooked media is another one it was on strict scrutiny recently one of their one of their programs and then we do quite a bit with Midas touch they have a legal af platform and then they also you know with with Ben Masilas I've been with him as well so we just try to meet people where they're at there's a lot of eyeballs there folks who've earned the engagement and we want to share what we're working on that is consistent with what they're focused on.

42:04So on stage on Friday, I was having a conversation with a creator and there was one thing that he said that stood out to me, which is that there is this silent handshake between powerful people, including celebrities and politicians that he brings onto his show, that he's not going to ask them any hard questions. And we've seen other podcasters since then make similar statements. And one of them went so far as to say, you know, to call my work journalism is an insult to journalists. And I'm trying to make people comfortable and I'm not pushing them the way that a traditional journalist would. So what is your take on that, especially as we're seeing more government officials and politicians turn to creators over traditional journalists?

42:42Yeah, I mean, I think you can have a respectful conversation. That's also a hard conversation. You can talk about tough issues. Sometimes that's kind of not something that you want to focus on in a conversation. You know, it is a conversation. It's a dialogue about a space where everyone feels pretty comfortable, but they want to hear from your guests and they want to hear from the hosts. And I think that's completely okay too, just because there's not sort of hard hitting questions that, you know, address something that's sensitive doesn't mean it's not an appropriate conversation. I think there's a time and place for all those things.

43:14If you're a leader in a space like, you know, the governor or a senator, you should expect those questions to come at some point in some environment from some person, but they don't need to happen every time to legitimize that dialogue at that moment, I don't think. So I just think there's a time and place for it. And it is appropriate to have those questions asked and answered at the right time and place. But sometimes not as well. And I think, you know, to your point, there's always been a difference between, you know, going on Jimmy Kimmel's show versus going on Caitlin Collins' show on CNN.

43:46But I do worry, especially in this era of so much political polarization, also proliferation of fake news, AI-generated content, misinformation, whatever you want to call it. You know, where is the accountability if creators who are behaving like journalists at times aren't asking the tough questions? Yeah, I think they shouldn't just accept everything at face value. Right. I mean, pushback is appropriate. It can be you can you can ask a tough question in a respectful way. Caitlin does it all the time very well, you know, and points out misinformation and disinformation. I think that's appropriate.

44:18Or, you know, you can comment on it later, too, and do a fact check on it just to hold folks accountable. There's different ways. It could be in the moment. It could be later. But I think it is appropriate to push back.

44:27Jasmine Enberg: If you can't tell, we come from journalism background. We do. We're a trained journalist. We started our media company in October. I worked at CNN as well. And Jasmine went to journalism school and spent a lot of time as an analyst. So we think a lot about that in our work. What do you think is the responsibility of creators in this moment, especially as they are sitting down with presidential candidates and tech executives? What is their responsibility? Probably multiple fold. I think one is they can bring to their audience and to their followers access to something that maybe those followers may not have had access to or maybe had interest in.

44:59But because, you know, their favorite creator is giving them a platform. I've always thought, you know, some people say I'm not interested in politics. I always like to say you might not be interested in politics, but politics is interested in you. What politics does affects everything that you do, the schools you go to, the safety of your streets, the health care that you get, the future of our planet, your upward economic mobility. So everyone, they might think they don't care, but it's impacting their lives. And if creators can connect the dots, show how, give them access to a Cory Booker or a Gavin Newsom and how they impact their lives, I think that's important.

45:28So access is one. But truth is another. Exploration, testing of what the person is saying, asking the tough questions, but also allowing them to share their platform. I think a little bit of a mix, but it's kind of the things you went to journalism school about in pursuing your career. But access is so important because I think creators are providing a connection to certain things for their followers that haven't existed before. So you think they should be fact-checking and making sure that what people are saying on their podcast, like this one, is accurate and they're not just there sharing a political message.

46:04I do. Call me crazy and insane. I believe in pushing back against misinformation, disinformation. I still believe in fact, science, truth, evidence, data. Our national dialogue has moved away from it, dangerously so. Very concerning and worrisome for me. And I think journalists, creators, can bring us back to where we need to be, where we have a right to our own opinions, but we don't have a right to our own facts.

46:26Jasmine Enberg: We recently had Senator Cory Booker on our show, and he told us about his efforts to get Senate Democrats more active on social media, and also that he would support a social media ban for people under 16. We've seen other countries from Australia to European countries now move towards that. You led the landmark trials in California against social platforms to harm young people. And you're a supporter of the Kids Online Safety Act. So tell us why. First, I'll just say about Corey, if he wants his fellow Democrats to be more engaged in social media, he should just say, do what I do. Well, that's pretty well.

46:54He does it pretty well. I'm sure he's saying it in a very nice way, knowing Corey. But that's part of the— And he was your classmate.

47:01Jasmine Enberg: My law school classmate. I've known him since my early 20s. I was in grad school with him, too, right after college. and think the world of him. He is now what he was then, a good person trying to make our world better and fairer and more just and solve problems. And I love that I'm able to be in some spaces with him. I love that he's helping lead this nation in the right direction. I think we need to have the right balance. And I think kids' safety is something we can never take risks with and should always be aggressive in taking appropriate steps that are science-based and evidence-based and based on what we're seeing.

47:34And we're seeing, unfortunately, a lot of mental health harms to kids on social media. You mentioned some of the lawsuits that we brought. We have a lawsuit against Meta. We have a lawsuit against TikTok. I've had supported legislation that tries to address some of the addictive features that have led to the mental health harms to children. And I think that that's appropriate. We can, and I think that it's actually good for business. Being pro-kid, being pro-consumer does not mean being anti-business. And I think parents would feel better about having their kids online if they knew that steps were being taken to keep their kids safe and that consumers would feel more comfortable going online if they knew they weren't going to be scammed or gouged or mistreated.

48:10So I think it can be good for business. But I think about my work a lot as a dad. I'm a dad of three kids. They're online a lot. I want them to be safe. There's a range from 17 to 27 and a 20-year-old in the middle. And they grew up in a new world that I didn't grow up in. More online. And one of my kids faced some really harmful cyberbullying. And I know some of the addictive features can kind of get you looking at your phone all the time instead of interacting with, you know, the quote unquote real world in the wild.

48:44Jasmine Enberg: Do you think bands are the answer for teens? They could be for younger people. I'm open to it. And, you know, Australia has been a leader. I think they do things based on evidence and facts. What age would be right to get on social media? It would trend younger for the bands. So the older you are, the more, I think, appropriate to be online. So is it right at 18 or 17 or 16? I don't know what the magic is of one of those numbers. And people have different types of emotional maturity. And there's probably some studies around brain development, how it impacts you being online. But I think Australia is something we really need to think about.

49:21I think, you know, Corey's not the only one to express support. I think Governor Newsom expressed support as well. I think the California legislature likes to be first and best and thoughtful in our work. I could see that that ban be taken up this year in the legislature or maybe next year.

49:35Jasmine Enberg: Would that be at the state level? It would be at the state level. But California drives markets. We're so big. We're the fourth largest economy in the world. We're the home of many of these companies. I mean, Meta being one and Google and others. And so kind of what we do sometimes can lead to that phrase in politics. As California goes, so goes the nation. But you don't want to be too overreaching. You want to be precise and surgical. You want the solution to match the problem. but a ban could match the problem. I'm open to that possibility, but I want to look at the data and evidence. So as I promote and support creators and social media platforms and homegrown companies, tech companies in California, we also want them and honestly insist that they be safe for children.

50:16Well, I'm a proud Californian. And so I completely agree with you that we are a forerunner in many of these trends. What about AI? Because right now it feels like we're in this moment where we're kind of heading down the same route with AI that we were with social media. And I know California has passed some legislation around data protection as well as protecting kids on AI chatbots. Do you support federal regulation for AI? I do, though I'm not super optimistic. I wish I were. I think I'm realistic in not having high expectations. I do continue to hope. I think this should be something that we can agree on, protecting against AI catastrophic risk, protecting against harm to children, making sure chatbots don't have sexually explicit conversations with children, making sure chatbots don't teach you how to kill yourself and then you kill yourself.

51:05Those things have happened. Making sure that AI isn't used to create non-consensual sexually explicit images of kids and women like Grok did on X. So that should be bipartisan. Congress should be able to do that. The federal government should be able to provide a floor of protection, above which states can do more is the way I would look at it. I don't think we should be preempted in California from doing more if we think appropriate. I think a floor of protection from the federal government should occur. But if you're not optimistic about federal regulation, I mean, how effective can any of the state legislation be when they're all piecemeal and disparate?

51:41And it's a very confusing framework. I mean, even for us who study the space. The patchwork is challenging, but it's not new. And if you meet the highest standard, then you're going to meet all the lower standards as well. And so it creates a race to the top, assuming the regulations regulate up to the point of necessity and then stop. It can really create an ecosystem of safety. And again, California, I think we're different. I hate to brag about California all the time, but I will continue to do so. We drive markets. And if we do something in California, they might just say, California is so big, there's so many users, let's just do it nationwide.

52:14No reason for a patchwork. But AI, just to be clear, I support it. I think the upside is limitless. It's going to save lives and cure disease and improve health and make us more efficient, make us more safe. All those good things. But just like any technology, if used in the wrong way, can create devastating harm. Harm to kids, catastrophic harm, discriminatory harm. And so we need to guard and regulate against all that as we capture the upside. One more question on AI, because it's not just, you know, the concerns about patchwork domestically, but also internationally because we don't have any global regulations around AI and you have countries like China that are really, you know, racing and making much more advanced models and products than we are here in the U.S.

52:57How do you think about that? It's scary. So I think I like I'm a leader. So I'm with the official position on this issue. So I think, you know, having a visceral response is important. Like, how does this affect my kids? How does this affect our, you know, essential infrastructure? How does this affect our safety? It's scary that we don't have a sort of safety protocol that all nations have bought into to protect against devastating harm. I think we can get there, but it's usually voluntarily through volunteer commitments. We've seen that in some other collective action issues where the international community has tried to work to address a problem that affects us all, like global climate change, for example.

53:37Not everyone is doing the same. Not everyone sees it the same. But I think we need to work towards some baselines and some commitments that we can all make to one another. But the fact that we don't have those commitments, and there are some that are racing ahead without appropriate regulation and safeguards and guardrails is scary. Could we fall behind, though, in the U.S. if we start adopting more legislation and guardrails and places like China just continue racing ahead without them? It's possible, but we've got to get the right balance. I think we want to spur innovation. We want to spur responsible innovation, safe innovation.

54:09Innovation where you put the world at risk, safety at risk, kids at risk, that's not the kind of innovation that we want. We want it to be thoughtful. We want it to be prudent. We want it to be safe. And I think that's just not controversial. I think if I said, you know, I want exciting innovation in the AI world as long as we don't hurt our kids. Parents, how many of you agree with that? I think everyone raises their hand. That shouldn't be controversial. But just because someone else is doing something that where they're taking an unnecessary risk doesn't mean that we should too. So why is it controversial in your opinion?

54:38Jasmine Enberg: All sorts of things are controversial. I think people worry about over rotation on the regulation, going too far. And maybe having legislators that don't have a full understanding of the technology and having unintended consequences in some of the well-intentioned policy. I think those are not inappropriate worries. And so I think the AI companies should engage with legislators, tell them what the unintended consequences are, help shape the legislation for the better. So it does the good thing, but not the unintended thing. And I think sometimes the business world, the innovative world, see government as a speed bump that gets in their way.

55:17But it is appropriate to have third-party regulation when the stakes are so high, when catastrophic risk is possible, when kids' lives literally and their health, mental health, physical health are at stake. It is appropriate to have the regulation. But we need to be open to those conversations. You can't see AI as the bad guys that we need to stop. We want to harness that upside potential and guard against the downside risk. and that should be the way we look at it. It's here. Depimit a little bit because we're almost at time.

55:42Jasmine Enberg: And I want to talk about Paramount and Warner Brothers. So another big theme that we've been thinking a lot about and that we're seeing at South By is the convergence of Hollywood and the creator economy. So you're seeing, you know, Netflix now is signing deals with podcasters and the lines are really blurring. A YouTuber just had a huge box office hit, Markiplier. You know, you've raised concerns about the Paramount Warner Brothers deal. I mean, do you think that these entertainment platforms as well as social media should be broken up? and what do you think it means about kind of how creators make a living?

56:10Competition is good. More and more corporate consolidation, generally not good. And that's not an opinion. That's based on retrospective empirical data that when there's more corporate consolidation, whatever space it is, let's say it's studios or streamers, then there's higher prices, there's lower wages for workers, there's less competition, less choice, quality goes down. That's bad. We should have free markets with competition where anyone can enter that market and be successful if their product is good and not just be squeezed out because they're smaller and because someone else has consolidated all the power.

56:47And so, you know, when we look at Paramount Warner Brothers, we're looking at the different markets that can consolidate there. It's studios being consolidated after there's already been studio consolidation in the past, like Disney and Fox. For example, we're seeing the potential of two streamers consolidating, Paramount Plus and HBO Max. And also, you know, people worry about news a lot. It's, you know, CBS and CNN. I'm a CNN alum, so I'm following closely. Yeah, there's a lot of concern. And, you know, we've seen what's happened. And we saw the Secretary Hegseth's comments like, get this, you know, get this deal done and get Ellison in charge already so we can fix CNN or, you know, whatever his statement was.

57:23and so we are appropriately inquisitive and red flags go up when we see more and more corporate consolidation and our job is to play our antitrust role and make sure that the laws are being followed that there's not an unlawful anti competitive conduct our goal is to think about the consumers a competitive market we like to think about the workers as well that work in these spaces and make sure we're fair objective and firm in our in our action should we decide to take any? And the federal government has long had a traditional role in this space, and they have retreated from it. They are not engaged.

58:00The US DOJ, the FTC, they're picking winners and losers. They're saying this person should merge here, or this entity should acquire this other entity without looking at the anti-competitive impacts on consumers. And that's our job. If they won't do it, we will. Consumers deserve that we do. The rule of law deserves that we do. And so we will. and we're the biggest Department of Justice outside the US DOJ in the nation. And this corporate consolidation is really important to us. So let's look ahead to the midterms because one of your predecessors, Kamala Harris, she had a really big moment on social media when she announced her presidential run.

58:35All the brat memes. She also sat down with Alex Cooper for an interview. Obviously, that did not work out in her favor. There's a lot of different reasons why you're not running for president, but you are. Maybe you are. I have no announcement to make here. Correct me if I'm wrong. I haven't been winning at this point. What lessons have you taken from Harris's strategy as you're thinking more about your creator strategy, especially ahead of the elections? I think there's so much power and potency in the creator world and we need to go there and engage and go wherever platforms will want to welcome us to have the conversation, to have the dialogue, to hear from the opinions of the creators and to engage on the issues most important to them, their followers, the American people.

59:17and I think it's only increasing the engagement. There's been this incredible democratization, this incredible infusion of talent into the creator space and the ability to engage with Americans, with constituents, with everyday folks has increased and we act at our own peril if we don't. And so I think Vice President Harris really showed an inclination to do that. Newsom I think has taken it to another level. Booker is already at another level and I think it's only going to be increasing with the engagement. For anyone who's an elected official, if you want to be responsible to, you know, our bosses, the people who elected us, you need to go where they are and they are more and more in creative space.

59:59Jasmine Enberg: That's a great note to end on. We so appreciate your time. Thank you for joining us. Thanks for having me. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you. Thank you so much for joining us in person this time. Thank you, everyone. I hope I get home on Monday because the airport is there. I know, the flights are crazy, but maybe we have to relocate to Austin. That's where all the podcasts are. All right, we'll see you next Thursday.