Do Creators Really Need Agents? Plus, Jack’s Dining Room’s $25M Food Content Deal

0:00Hi, everyone. This is Scalable, a weekly show about the business of the creator economy.

0:04Jasmine Enberg: I'm Kaya Yurieff. And I'm Jasmine Enberg. Every Thursday, we take you beyond the headlines to tell you what's happening, what it means, and why it matters.

0:29matters. Automated recovery, clean data, a business that keeps moving no matter what hits. One platform, not a patchwork of stitched together tools and gaps. Don't wait for the next attack. Secure and accelerate your business at rubric.com. Again, rubric.com.

0:47Jasmine Enberg: It is all feeling very Hollywood, but that was not always the case. Do creators need representation in the first place? One thing that's unique about me is we're not signed to a talent agency. One of the main reasons that creators bring on managers, agents, or any other type of business partner is to help grow their business. We are going to dive into that with food creator Jack Goldberg, the founder of Jack's Dining Room. He just announced a new$25 million deal with 101 Studios, which will help Jack's Dining Room create long-form series that they couldn't pull off on their own. It's not hard to go viral today anymore.

1:20I've done billions of views across shorts, TikTok, Instagram, we've been kind of in search for the right partner who can really take it to the next level.

1:35Hi, Jasmine. Hi, Kaya. And hi, everyone. Welcome to Scalable, our weekly show about the business of the creator economy.

1:42Jasmine Enberg: Today, we're talking all about creator representation and whether creators really need it. If the answer is yes, when is the right time to bring someone on? And should it be an agent, a manager, or both? Or maybe it's a totally different type of business partner. We'll also go through some of the downsides of formal representation and why some creators choose to continue managing their own careers. But first, there has been quite a bit of drama on the talent agency front recently. Call Her Daddy host Alex Cooper left UTA this summer and is reportedly in talks now with CAA. Her long-running feud with Alex Earl, who is repped by UTA, seemed to be a big friction point.

2:17Jasmine Enberg: In case you missed it, CAA, which also represents Scalable, has been on quite the creator signing spree over the past year or so. It has nabbed names like Rhett and Link from Mythical and the Stokes Twins. CAA has also teamed up with TPG to launch a$250 million holding company to acquire creator businesses. And in yet another interesting move, the agency has been signing more digital media companies lately, including the Female Quotient and Betches Media. So they really are on a roll here. Yes, and UTA represents big names as well, including the world's top YouTuber, MrBeast, streamer Kai Sanat, and Emma Chamberlain.

2:52UTA was really early to the creator space, but now they're having to fight to keep some of their talent. Then there's Casey Wasserman, the founder of the talent and sports agency that bore his name. He appeared in the Epstein files, and amid the fallout of that, including high-profile clients like Chappell Rhone exiting, he put Wasserman up for sale. The company also rebranded to The Team and in July was acquired by private equity firm Providence Equity Partners, which already held a majority stake. It was a competitive sale process that also included UTA and super agent Patrick Whitesell. If that name sounds familiar, it's because Whitesell's firm just invested in Alex Cooper's company Unwell.

3:28Jasmine Enberg: It is all feeling very Hollywood with all of these agencies fighting for the same creators and the same names just popping up over and over again. But that was not always the case. For a long time, social media creators were pretty much excluded or looked down upon by the big talent agencies. So that meant that a lot of creators were left to fend for themselves or they turned to smaller independent agencies or management companies that popped up to fill the gap. One of those is Underscore Talent Management, which is co-founded by Reza Izad and Dan Weinstein. We recently spoke to Reza about how the talent management landscape has shifted, in part as the creator economy has fragmented, and how all of that is now impacting their business.

4:10Jasmine Enberg: Take a listen. The idea of the next Mr. Beast, the idea of somebody being the next, that has gotten a lot harder. On the flip side, there's a lot of folks that are breaking through, but they're breaking through in their various niches. Like a streamer with 10 ,000 CCV, but who has a really strong clipping presence. Hey, that could be a really, really interesting talent to partner with. Or a beauty girl who has 100 ,000 followers, but man, she converts on affiliate like nobody's ever seen before. And so it is nuanced what we're looking for. We'll go deeper into that later on in the episode. At the same time, the traditional talent agency model is also being disrupted, and the lines are blurring between agents and managers who have historically played different roles.

4:57We talked to Reza about that, too, and we'll share what he said shortly. Zooming out, though, ultimately one of the main reasons that creators bring on managers, agents, or any other type of business partner is to help grow their business. We're also going to dive into that with food creator Jack Goldberg, the founder of Jack's Dining Room and Yes Chef, who has built his company alongside his business partner and friend, Liam Henning.

5:15Jasmine Enberg: But the real reason we have Jack on the show today is because he just announced a new$25 million deal with 101 Studios, which houses Taylor Sheridan's TV portfolio, including Yellowstone, which I love, as well as projects from George Clooney. For context, Jack's Dining Room has about 3 million followers on Instagram, about 2.5 million on TikTok, and another 1 million on YouTube. Among other things, we'll discuss how this new deal will help Jack's Dining Room create long-form series that they couldn't pull off on their own. But first, a message from our sponsor. Today's episode is brought to you by Nimono.

5:48So we have been long overdue to upgrade our podcasting equipment, especially for when we're on the road and doing interviews in noisy places. At the same time, we still want to bring you the vibe of where we are without it being distracting.

6:00Jasmine Enberg: At South by Southwest this year, we used an outdoor studio on a roof in Austin, which is a very cool location. But we were so nervous because you could hear sirens. There was so much noise. There was so much wind. But the technical producer on site assured us that with these Numono mics, we would get some ambient noise, but the sound quality would be great. Needless to say, we were still nervous despite his assurances. But when we got the audio back, we were so impressed. Take a listen. So I have been to South by a few years in a row now. And my little hobby that I do is I look at the flyers around the convention center.

6:37Jasmine Enberg: I am so impressed by that. You always have this eye for looking at every tiny little detail. We used Nemono mics again when we were at Cannes Lions this summer doing a marathon of podcast interviews from a pop-up studio at a beach club, which is not exactly your typical recording environment. But once again, Nemono delivered. Here's another clip. What brings you to Cannes Lions this year? You guys hang out with folks like you. But it's not just about being able to record everywhere. The Nimono Sound Capsule acts as a portable podcast studio. It includes four wireless mics, a 360 spatial audio recorder, which is all in a single device that you can toss into your carry-on and weighs under three pounds.

7:14We are not technical experts by any means, and the setup was still easy for us. You lift the handle up, take out the mics, and press record.

7:21Jasmine Enberg: You don't have to deal with the mess of cables, and you don't need an audio engineer with you to check that everything is working or that everybody's sound levels are the same. It's all automatic. I've also been using Nimono's smaller Stellar kit, which has two mics for when you're on the go. I actually just brought it on a trip with me to New York. But the part that really changed things for our workflow, right after you stop recording, it's already uploaded to the cloud. There's no SD cards, no wait, who has the file? You open your laptop, log into your Nimono accounts, and it's just there. And from that same cloud studio, you get one-click AI cleanup, basic editing, and transcripts you can actually search all in the browser.

7:57It even handles the sync. So if you're shooting video at the same time, the audio lines up automatically and there's no need to fix it in post-production. And it's not just us.

8:05Jasmine Enberg: Teams at Acast, Audible, iHeart, they're all using Numono too. With Numono, you get studio quality audio captured anywhere and ready to publish the same day. Our listeners also get 15 % off any Numono product with the code SCALABLE. Check it out and learn more at numono.co slash scalable. Okay, let's get into it. So to start at the beginning, we of course have to acknowledge that some of the top Hollywood talent agencies like UTA and WME were signing creators and podcasters more than a decade ago. In some cases, even 20 years ago, UTA's early digital talent practice actually dates as far back as 2006 with early YouTube deals.

8:44Jasmine Enberg: Okay, it is very hard to believe that 2006 was 20 years ago, but anyway. It's true. It's true, unfortunately. Those deals then were relatively few and far between when you compare it to today. And like we said at the top, even those digital creators who did get deals, they were often considered a separate or less than traditional Hollywood talent. Of course, that is now changing very quickly, in part as who is considered a celebrity has also changed. I mean, Gen Zers and younger are far more likely to know Mr. Beast or Alex Earl than they are Scarlett Johansson or Tom Cruise. And so what we've seen is that over the past few years, UTA and CAA have just made a much bigger fuss over creators building out and making a splash over dedicated creators divisions, not just digital divisions.

9:30Jasmine Enberg: So look at Cannes Lions earlier this year. I mean, UTA had a massive beachfront activation there. CAA was also there with a prominent activation for the first time too. We got to go there and it was one of the few places where you were guaranteed to get air conditioning because it was incredibly hot and a full meal on the can boardwalk. So thank you, CAA, very much for that. Yes, thank goodness for that because it was very hot. But before we go any further, let's talk about the difference between agents and managers because that's going to help frame the conversation for today, especially as the lines are blurring so much.

10:01So traditionally, an agent's main job was to book work. So to submit people for gigs, negotiate contracts, and close deals. A manager has typically taken a broader, more hands-on role in shaping someone's overall career, overseeing day-to-day decisions, strategy, and so on. We asked Reza about the difference between the two because he's worked as both an agent and manager in his career. He argued that for creators who have separate agents and managers, the roles are complementary rather than competitive. In our world, the roles are very complementary. A lot of our top clients have agents. That being said, we do have a fair amount of clients that have just one rep.

10:38And so we're set up to represent our clients wholly, but we love partnering in the marketplace. I mean, look, typically a management company, including ourselves, our managers will carry much smaller lists than a typical agent will. So it is a more consultative relationship. There's a lot more strategy that goes along with it.

10:58Jasmine Enberg: So Reza makes a really good point there, but it's also not surprising to hear him frame it this way, given that more creators now have agents, including at these big agencies like CAA and UTA. So for him, arguing that creators only need one or the other wouldn't necessarily be good for business. Plus, then there's also the fact, and we'll talk about this a little bit later on, that managers and agents may sometimes disagree, and that could complicate matters as well. That's a perfect transition into our first big question. Why do creators need representation in the first place? Well, a 2025 report from Visa shows that creators understand the content side of the business but struggle with the mechanics of running a company.

11:36So only about half of creators in the survey felt confident in business strategy, financial management, and contract negotiation. And only about 38 % felt confident in tax and legal compliance. Even less, nearly a quarter felt confident in hiring and employee management. On the flip side, roughly three quarters or more were confident in things like social media management, content strategy, and audience growth or engagement.

11:59Jasmine Enberg: Yeah, and this is exactly why we've seen creators hire seasoned executives for their companies, including titles like CEO, president, and even chief content officer now. And for many of them, those roles are on top of having managers and agents, and it's just another way for them to professionalize their businesses, their operations, and sometimes help them navigate some sticky situations. Though, as we wrote about in our newsletter recently, not all of those hirings work out. So at least a dozen senior leaders at creator-founded companies have left over the past year, including CEOs and chief growth officers, according to our analysis.

12:35Jasmine Enberg: Even so, plenty are still hiring roles like chief comms officers, which can come in particularly handy when there's turmoil. But going back to the agency management question, it is also just a stamp of legitimacy and really good optics. Like, I remember when we got the call from CAA saying that they wanted to represent us, and we were literally pinching ourselves to make sure it was real and this is actually happening. When it was finally announced, it felt like we were a legitimate business. And it's just such a different thing. And it puts you on a different level when you can tell a potential partner, like, talk to my agent or my agent will handle this than a creator on their own.

13:11Totally agreed. I mean, it was such a huge moment for us. And we're going to talk a little bit more about our own experience with representation. But first, the next big question is when is the right time to take on an agent or manager? I've honestly heard it all. I've interviewed, probably, this is not a scientific estimate, but I would say hundreds of creators at this point over the past decade. No, I think it's accurate over the past decade. And some of them have been at it, you know, for 10 years or more, and they still manage everything themselves, or they waited for years to bring someone on to help.

13:44Some newer creators have a few viral hits and good momentum, and they sign with someone a few months later. So it really runs the gamut on the timing question.

13:52Jasmine Enberg: Yeah, for sure. I mean, there's just no one size fits all solution to this. But some good signs that we've heard are if a creator is getting a lot of inbound interest from brands, but they're not closing a lot of deals, that could indicate that they might need help from someone getting over the finish line. Then there's other creators who might be stuck signing a bunch of one off deals instead of longer term partnerships, which obviously give them more stable income and talent representatives can help negotiate the bigger deals. And of And of course, a big advantage to signing with an agent or a manager might be that a lot of creators are underpricing themselves, either because they don't know what to charge or because they're worried that the brand might balk.

14:32Jasmine Enberg: And talent reps can take that pressure off because, one, they know the market better, and two, because it's their literal job to get you the best deal possible. So they're not afraid. Yes. And as you mentioned, soon after launching Scalable, we signed with CAA. And there's a lot of reasons why we wanted representation, a big one. neither of us has the time or expertise to negotiate our own brand deals to give you a little window into how we work. I mean, we love to get on calls with potential partners and talk to them about the editorial and our business and kind of our big picture vision, but we are not typically involved in the back and forth negotiations.

15:07And I think the other advantage of working with a massive agency is that one, they have so much knowledge and visibility into how these different brands operate, what their current budgets are, what they're paying other creators who are similar in size or niche to you. And they can also come up with really great ideas for brand partnerships that we never would have thought of, right? Like for a scalable summit, we had a way to sponsor the green room, which we never would have thought of as an option, but it makes a lot of sense because that's where the speakers and high profile people are coming.

15:35So it's a great place to put your brand.

15:36Jasmine Enberg: I still go back to sponsored porta potties for next year. Well, that was not to be clear an idea for each of them. No, that was my idea. You have to go back to a previous episode to find out more about that. But anyway, no, I totally agree with you as much as both of us are experts on the creator economy, and we conceptually understand the mechanics of brand deals. We've never actually done one ourselves. And we come at this from an analyst and a journalist perspective, which is much more high level than you know, being in the room actually negotiating deals. So we really just had no idea where to start when it came to pricing, especially as we speak to a B2B audience, which is inherently smaller.

16:15Jasmine Enberg: but high quality and one that advertisers are going to put a premium on. It's also just really great to have CAA be able to handle our inbound opportunities as well as pitch us out for brands actively and just to be able to tap the broader team. They've been so helpful because not only do we have this podcast, we also have our newsletter, we have research and Kai, like you mentioned, we have the event and we want to be able to partner holistically across all of these different properties and in creative ways. Yeah. And like you said, I mean, the prestige and legitimacy was a big factor for us too.

16:45I mean, as a brand new media company, we were really honored that people were interested in working with us, especially so early on. Yes, shocked, really. But, you know, CA represents some of the biggest names in the entertainment industry and in the creator economy. So having them sign Scalable felt like a vote of confidence in us and in our business and just a signal to the wider industry. But when we were going through this process, we got some really good advice about representation that I thought was worth sharing. So So yes, the firm matters, but your day-to-day team and agents matter more, including their specific backgrounds, their skill set, and how that all fits in with your business and the stage you are in your career.

17:20So for example, if you're already a major podcaster, you're probably wanting a super podcasting agent who can help negotiate a big deal for you with a SiriusXM or Spotify and who has experience doing that. If you're a creator who wants to launch a consumer business down the line, you probably want an agent or manager who has helped creators do that from the ground up.

17:38Jasmine Enberg: Yeah, and obviously we're signed by CAA and a lot of creators have gone to these big talent agencies, but none of this is to say that agents and managers can't be at smaller firms. Obviously, again, you know, CAA, UTA, WME, they bring prestige, they bring connections, they have the experience. But some creators actually prefer to be represented by smaller companies, especially those that specialize in the creator economy. I mean, they often have fewer clients, which means you're less likely to get lost when, you know, they're not representing big name celebrities. And these companies might just be more invested and have more time to spend on each individual creator.

18:13Jasmine Enberg: Signing with an agent also doesn't mean that they're going to represent the entire business of a creator. So what we've also found is that creators often start looking for representation when they're expanding into new areas like speaking or books or podcasting. And so sometimes they'll take an agent on for just one part of their business. So meaning like if a creator wants to write a book, they could sign with UTA only for publishing and nothing else. So Reza from Underscore Talent also talked about how creators often speak representation for management when they want to tap into broader capabilities.

18:46Jasmine Enberg: And he actually drew some fun parallels between managing creators today and his time representing Prince, yes, that Prince, in the 1990s. Although isn't he now known as the artist formerly known as Prince? Oh, is he? I don't know. I'm not up on my Prince history. Neither am I. Anyway, here's Reza. What was it like? It was obviously he's very, very creative and very, very hardworking, but he was probably like of the clients I had at that time, one of the more influential in terms of thinking about how you would represent an independent artist. He'd left Warner Brothers at the time. He had done some really innovative things.

19:27He had a subscription service called New Power Generation where he'd uploaded all of his songs and you could subscribe to his songs. This is before Spotify for I think it was like$14 or$15. He had, you know, well into the six figure subscriber base. And so he was doing really interesting, innovative things. And he could do that because he owned his content. and he had the ability and the right to sort of present it how he wanted it presented. And a lot of the thinking and a lot of the skill sets in sort of navigating and helping somebody like Prince sort of navigate his universe, you know, is very applicable today in the creator economy because you're dealing with creators who are fundamentally independent of any, you know, media, infrastructure.

20:18There's a lot of ways they can monetize. And so building a company that's set up to support, that is something that we think about all the time. Like, what are the pieces you want to put into place that would add the most value to somebody who oftentimes does not have the infrastructure that a talent would have if they worked for a Netflix or went and had a record company as their partner or whatnot? Well, I certainly did not know any of this about Prince, But it also doesn't surprise me. But back to the questions we had around kind of pricing and negotiations, because they certainly aren't unique to us.

20:51Pricing is still all over the place in the creator economy. There is no standard framework or rate card, which means that a lot of deals are being done, frankly, on vibes. And that only adds to the confusion and concern that some creators feel when they have to price out a deal to a brand.

21:06Jasmine Enberg: Yeah. And it's also a big roadblock for unlocking more budget into creators more broadly. I mean, this was a huge theme at the IAB creator fronts in New York last week, where so many of the sessions were focused on how you develop standardized tools, systems and frameworks for influencer marketing. So obviously, the audience there was marketers rather than creators. And unlike creators who generally feel underpaid, marketers are far more likely to say that they are overpaying. So according to a survey by Billion Dollar Boy, for example, 40 % of marketers say they feel like they overpaid. Some even called creator pricing out of control in a Digiday article about this report.

21:45Jasmine Enberg: And without those standardized rate cards or measurement frameworks, there's really just no way of knowing whether creators or marketers are right here. And so what does all of this have to do with talent representation, you might be asking? Well, agents and managers have also contributed to this discrepancy, as well as just the overall lack of pay transparency. That is because the amount that a brand pays for a brand deal is not the amount that is going to creators if they have a talent rep. Agents and managers take a cut of every deal. Typically, agents take about 10 % and managers take about 20%, but it can get much higher than that.

22:21Jasmine Enberg: So here's creator and talent manager Bella McDaniel talking a little bit about this. She also actually gives some really good advice to creators on what they should be looking for in a manager or agent. If you have management as a creator, typically you're going to have a percentage of your deals taken out that go to that management. 20 % is standard and is probably the number you hear most often and that fee is not just going towards somebody to monitor your emails a good manager should be pitching you bringing you opportunities negotiating your rates negotiating usage and exclusivity redlining contracts to be as favorable as possible handling all brand communication tracking deliverables invoicing chasing late payments and generally making it possible for you to spend more time creating so here's where i start raising an eyebrow because there are agencies charging 33 so let's say you have a ten thousand dollar deal you're then paying your agency$3 ,300.

23:09So of that$10 ,000 deal, you're taking home 6 ,700 and that's before taxes. At 20%, that same deal is costing you$2 ,000. So your take home is 8 ,000 before taxes. So I'm not saying a manager could never be worth 33%, but I think it's totally fair for a creator to say to a manager who wants to take 33%, okay, if I'm giving you one out of every$3 I make, I need you to be able to point to exactly what I am getting for that additional 13%. And I think that's a better question that creators could be asking when exploring management, not just what's your percentage? What am I getting for that percentage?

23:42So that's what creators should look for in representation. Let's talk about the flip side of that, meaning what agents and managers are looking for in creators today. So as we've talked about a lot on this podcast, the creator economy is only getting more fragmented. And that means which metrics matter the most aren't as clear anymore with the shift to more algorithm-driven feeds. So we recently published an op-ed in partnership with Open Influence, an influencer marketing firm. And as a side note, it ran in OI's print magazine. And there is just always something so fun about seeing your work and byline in a physical hard copy.

24:15Jasmine Enberg: I know. I used to go buy a copy of the New York Times or the Wall Street Journal literally every time I was quoted, even though I'd already seen the article go live online. And let me tell you, finding a physical copy of either of those newspapers in LA is much easier said than done. And sometimes I'd have to enlist family members in New York when I couldn't find one and bless them because they would always do it for me, which is very sweet. So cute. But anyway, in the op-ed, we argue that although follower counts have never mattered less, they still do matter. So allow us to explain, because I feel like there's a lot of talk in the industry about how follower counts are out.

24:50They don't matter at all. So obviously, follower counts do not accurately reflect a person's popularity or reach. And more followers also doesn't guarantee more views at this point. Most platforms have moved away from follower counts and instead look at things like saves, shares, time spent to decide whether or not a piece of content should be recommended or distributed more broadly. And as a result, smaller creators may get outsized views on their content, while larger creators may no longer command the same reach that they once did. But we still think that big followings carry weight. I mean, there's a level of cultural cachet that comes with working with a creator with a large number of followers, which is why the Mr.

25:25Beasts of the world can charge so much for campaigns and why so many brands still want to work with them.

25:30Jasmine Enberg: Yeah. And then if you look at the growth in follower accounts, I mean, that can also be a really effective way to track creators on the rise. So just look at Norwegian soccer star Erling Haaland. He gained about 32 million followers on Instagram during the World Cup. A lot of that had to do with his posts about the hair. At least that's what I think. At the end of the day, I mean, marketers are also just busier than ever. So glancing at a follower count is still the easiest way to understand and assess the legitimacy of a creator, even though it's obviously a far from perfect metric. We asked Reza about this too, as someone who leads a management firm, because it used to be that you'd kind of just sign the biggest creators with the biggest followings, but that's shifted a lot now.

26:08So how do you decide who to sign as talent and how do you track how your current talent is performing? Here's what he said about whether or not follower counts still matter and the other ways that Underscore assesses creators, especially those in different verticals. They do matter. It's like one signal, but it doesn't matter as much as it used to. There's definitely less value in subscribers than there's ever been as these algorithms have gone more topic-based. And I think as AI gets more powerful, it's going to get less and less relevant. To get a little bit deeper into that and the specifics, you launched the outdoor lifestyle creator vertical, which is so interesting.

26:46Extreme sports, hunting, fishing, Like you don't see very often those creators getting managers. Some people can kind of shy away from that type of content. But, you know, within food versus outdoor versus lifestyle, what are the different strategies that you implement there? Well, let's just take outdoors. It's an interesting segment. Outdoor is a red state activity. It is blue collar typically in terms of who it reaches. And when you look at the audiences, it's very, very American, right? So it is not a global audience. So you end up with audiences that are on average earning more money than other audiences that some of our creators might have.

27:29And it's a pretty high converting space. And YouTube plays a big role in that. The strategy around that is identifying talent that we're super excited about that we think can sort of service the brands that are looking to engage in that ecosystem. Beauty, fashion, lifestyle, it's such a broad segment. You've got the it girl. You have people focused just on Korean beauty. You've got all these segments and every one of them is a slightly different content strategy. Every one of them has a slightly different monetization, not to be so simplistic about it, but like Korean beauty versus American beauty, right?

28:06And skincare, the way you frame your shots, the kind of lighting you use, all of those things play a significant role on the kind of deals you get. And so it's having that nuanced information that we can impart to our talent. And while we're looking at talent design that we believe are following the best practices of each one of these things is kind of why we verticalize because it has gotten so, so specialized in terms of representation. Okay, moving on, because even as we've seen more creators take on formal representation, others have chosen not to. One of them is Natalie Marshall, better known as Corporate Natalie.

28:41Here's what she told us on a recent episode about why she doesn't have a third-party agency representing her. One thing that's unique about me is we're not signed to a talent agency. We have no true agent representation. We do it all in-house. So every brand deal you've ever seen is from us sourcing it or an inbound lead. And we kind of have built our own media company through that. I have a lot of friends in the industry who have agents who they love and have great relationships with. I've also seen agent talent relationships that are super predatory, where they're taking 20 % of deals and barely doing anything.

29:18I like to operate as a partnership with my team where we're all bought in on the creative and the brand deal part of it. And we, you know, together can script and co-write things and build way better branded content than it is when just an agent is passing it off to you as like, here's the brief, do your thing. it's really collaborative from the start. And that's what I love about our team. No shade on talent managers. It just, it wasn't for me.

29:46Jasmine Enberg: Yeah. And that's definitely a concern that we've heard from other creators. And it's some of what Bella McDaniel was talking about in the video we shared earlier as well. I mean, creators just don't want to give up a percentage of their earnings, especially if a lot of the deals are inbound and the manager or the agent isn't actively going out and getting them.

30:06Jasmine Enberg: They creators can also feel like agent talent relationships are just too transactional. That's why agents in particular sometimes get a bad rap compared to managers because they have traditionally been so focused on cutting financial deals for their clients. So I have certainly been on the other side of this as a journalist. I will not name names. But once I reached out to a big podcaster's agent about a speaking opportunity at one of my conferences back at the information, they totally ignored my email. And when I followed up, they said, you didn't offer anything. meaning money. That's very blunt.

30:40Exactly. Hence the bad rap. But this is totally a conversation for another time. But news organizations like the New York Times or Wall Street Journal or the information or a scalable summit cannot pay people to speak because it's a conflict of interest as a media company. That said, I think agents increasingly are thinking much more holistically about their clients' businesses. And the good ones can also recognize a good PR opportunity when they see it and forward that along to the publicist. But I think at the end of the day, I mean, these businesses need to be sustainable for everyone to win.

31:10Like if agents are pushing their clients to sign short term deals just to get a payday, that may not be the best decision for the business long term, which just hurts everyone.

31:18Jasmine Enberg: Although I do appreciate that they asked. I think it was just the way in which they asked. It was a little too blunt and on the nose. I hear a lot of like, oh, well, do you have a speaking budget? But it was just like, you didn't offer anything. I was like, what? Did you respond? I can't remember. I think I did try to spin it and was like, you know, we're a media organization, we can't pay, but like, there's a lot of executives and brands in the room and kind of explained why it was a good opportunity. Anyway, needless to say, that podcaster did not appear up by a bit. Maybe next time, maybe next time.

31:48Jasmine Enberg: Anyway, in our conversation, Natalie also touched on predatory relationships in the industry. And there have been a few high profile scandals that have spooked creators, including one back in 2023, when creators accused Carter Agency of withholding payments, hiding brand deal rates, and even lying about who they were representing. And since creators are not a recognized labor class in the US, they also have to be just really careful about who they work with, in part so they don't get scammed. Beyond these individual scandals, though, there's also just a wider issue with payments and delays in particular for creator work.

32:22Jasmine Enberg: So we already talked about creators feeling underpaid, But up to 87 % of creators have been paid late or experienced some type of payment issue, according to a report from Campaign that cited data from payment platforms like Tipalti and Lumanu. And I have seen this repeatedly in other surveys over the years as well. And sometimes these delays come from agents or managers because they're getting the money first. Here's Alex Cooper actually talking about that recently on the Burnouts podcast. Obviously, when you listen to this, Alex Cooper has much more negotiating power than the vast majority of creators.

32:56Jasmine Enberg: But I'm sure a lot of creators feel the same way as she does. When I signed my Spotify deal, Spotify was like, where do we send the X amount of million dollars per month? UTA is like, they'll send it to us and we'll take our percentage out and then we'll send it to you. And I was like, wait, no, I want that in my bank account and then I'll send you your 10 percent. But understandably, as an agency, you want that X amount of millions of dollars because then they can put that as their revenue for the year. I learned very quickly that I never wanted my agents to be friends with my lawyers. And I didn't want any of the people that I was working with to have done deals because all of these people then talk.

33:32And that's how people lose all their money because everyone's working behind your back.

33:36Jasmine Enberg: And finally, one more downside that we have to mention is that sometimes agents and managers can actually complicate things, especially when you have both. So they might both be speaking to the same potential partners, and that can mean a lot of miscommunication if they're not properly aligned from the get-go. Or sometimes it's just as simple as having an added layer in between a potential partner and a creator, which means that things can get lost in translation. And ultimately, that just reflects poorly on the creator themselves. Because of all of this, some creators turn to people they trust the most, family.

34:09So Alex Earle, for example, is managed by her dad, though she's also signed by UTA. Very Kardashian-esque. Kim Kardashian is with WME, but of course, is managed by her mom, Kris Jenner.

34:19Jasmine Enberg: The ultimate momager. Other pig creators have famously dropped their managers. Mr. Beast, for example, stopped working with Knight, which managed him from 2018 to 2024. That is actually the same year that Mr. Beast hired Jeff Hausenbold first as president and COO of Beast Industries. He is, of course, now CEO. At the time, we and many others in the industry took it as a sign that Mr. Beast was consolidating and centralizing his business, which makes a ton of sense for a creator of his size and scale. Jack from Jack's Dining Room is another creator who primarily handles his deals through his internal team.

34:53He told us that, quote, we have a great working relationship with CAA, but most of the brand partnerships and corporate sponsorships are executed by the Yes Chef group in-house team. Anyway, now it's time for our interview with Jack. As we mentioned at the top, Jack's Dining Room, led by Jack Goldberg and his business partner Liam Henning just signed a$25 million deal with 101 Studios. We spoke with Jack about how the deal came together, the types of shows he plans to develop, and what it all means for his broader business, which also includes live events like the Yes Chef Food Fest and more intimate dinners.

35:23Jasmine Enberg: He also tells us what the best city for food is and whether or not he would ever open his own restaurant. Take a listen. We're so excited to have you and congratulations are in order, first of all. I appreciate that a lot. Thank you very much. We want to talk to you all about your new production deal. But first, we have to know, true or false, did you actually fake your way into becoming a food influencer? I would say in a lot of ways, true. I think a lot of our mentality to get to where we are today has always been kind of fake it till you make it and scheme in and open this door and kind of get into this door any way necessary and then use that to get into the next door then the next door and continue to build on it which i think has always been kind of an attitude that i've had and a fun way to go about it and yeah we went to our first restaurant it was aldama in williamsburg and it was this mexican restaurant i don't know if it's there anymore and we had no idea what we were doing and we were pulling a piece of like lobster are here and moving this dish.

36:27And we kind of just did it. I went home. I was working at PwC at the time in tech consulting and edited the video, stayed up late, posted it the next day. And that video took off. It did really well. And then we were just double, triple down. We're like, holy shit, like that was crazy. Look what we just did. Let's do it again and again and again. And the next video did like 250 ,000 views, 500 ,000 views, a million views. And we gained around, I think like 10 ,000 followers in the first week. and Liam was living on my couch and he's like six, four. My couch is five feet long. So he was sleeping, you know, his legs and head over the couch.

37:06Instead of going back to San Francisco because that's where he was living, he would just stay on my couch for two, three weeks, a month at a time. And he would do, he would work, go to a restaurant, edit, stay up all night, post again and again and again and again until it was too much to do both at once. And you have that natural fork in life where you have to take a chance and jump. And for us, we did it and never looked back. But why food, right? There's so many different categories that you could have, like, why wouldn't you become a beauty influencer? I don't know. Yeah. So it didn't happen by mistake.

37:42All of my core memories my whole life are around food growing up with my parents and my grandparents and going out to dinner at a young age. Like I would go out to dinners, let's say with my grandparents on like a Saturday night. And the Wednesday before when I was in like fourth grade, I would look up the menu like Wednesday night, Thursday night, Friday night, and I would get to the table Saturday night and I would know exactly what I want, what other people should order. I was always just so infatuated with food. And all of these memories that I have and all of my favorite parts about life are always rooted and centered in food, which I think is why I have such, obviously a strong respect and love for food and the storytelling behind food and the content was never about doing something just to like go viral and do it.

38:27It was always about doing something I was passionate and I cared about. And then the virality and everything else kind of was a result from, you know, doing it. So fast forward to now, let's dive into the news. So you just signed a$25 million production deal with David Glasser's 101 Studios, which houses Taylor Sheridan's TV portfolio, including Yellowstone, as well as projects from George Clooney. So walk us through the terms of the deal and why you wanted to do it. For us so long, what our goal is and what we want to do is really tell stories through food, spread positivity, and just really create this loving community around food and the stories around it and highlighting the people.

39:08And we've done that for the past four years on short form and have done billions of views across shorts, TikTok, Instagram. And we've been kind of in search for the right partner who can really take it to the next level and help us, I think, create the largest food media company in the entire world and touch the most amount of people because food is the one thing in the world that everyone can relate to. Someone might like sports, someone might like music, someone might like beauty. every single human being on earth eats one, two, three meals a day. You have to eat food. And I think with 101, there's very few people in the world who are working at the level they are, not only creating shows, but building worlds, creating products, telling deeper stories.

39:55Their team is incredible. Taylor Sheridan is incredible. Obviously, Clooney is incredible. they've produced so many amazing shows and they've had this white space of food and we are you know i'm confident we are the best people in the world to fill that space and i think when you pair us and them together it's going to be a game changer and this is a joint venture right anything you can kind of say about you know the deal terms i'm sure some you can't share but just in terms of kind of the structure and all that. Yeah, so this is a joint venture. I mean, they have three JVs. They have Taylor Sheridan, George Clooney, and now Yes Chef Group with Yes Chef Studios.

40:34So I feel pretty honored to be even close to those names. We have a lot to prove. Those guys have already proven a ton. I think it goes to show the confidence that 101 has in us and the confidence we have in them to help us get to that level. I was never just interested in having just a show. Like we always think about things a little bit deeper. If we can, we want to own what we do. We don't want to just do it and work for someone else. So that started really early on, actually, when I would always wear hats in every video, really early on in the first couple of months. And as we started to get hundreds of millions of views, people would start to recognize me from the smiley face hat.

41:18And I said to Liam really early on, And I was like, what if we made our own hat? And it sounds really simple, but it was actually one of the most transformative and smartest things we've ever done at the time because that allowed us to do two things. One, create almost this like brand poster that people would recognize in the hat, like a billboard. So some people would recognize the hat, but not me. And they're like, oh, I recognize you by the hat, which is great because that means we built something that people can recognize and it works. And then secondly, we own the hat. So we could sell the hats, people could buy them.

41:51And we could make money from that as well. Thinking long term in terms of like being an entrepreneur, coming from the consulting backgrounds, thinking, okay, let's not just wear someone's hat. Let's own the whole process. Let's make the hat. Let's sell the hat. Let's use the hat as part of our brand. It was kind of the same process with content. It's like, let's not just make a show with someone. Let's lay the foundation. Like let's be the track and let's be the train that drives on the track. So let's build the distribution. Let's own the process. Let's own the studio, not just do the show. So we can be the cog and the wheel and be both.

42:24Jasmine Enberg: So tell us a little bit more about the content that you're planning to produce. I mean, a couple of things that you said there before was that you feel like you have a lot to prove. You also want to create the best food content out there. Like, what does that actually look like for you? What is the best food content that you could create? I don't know. I can't give too many ideas away. I want to be surprised. But I think a lot of what, I want to do and we want to do through Yeshocidias is you can only tell a story so long on short form content. And there's so much more that we want to tell about myself, about restaurants, about chefs around the world, about these experiences.

43:04So by elongating the content and having incredible distribution, one of the lives on Netflix, Netflix, Paramount, Hulu, HBO, Amazon, you know, we'll be able to just dive a little bit deeper and tell these stories that I think more and more people want to see and want to hear, which is really exciting. Are some of these shows going to live just for YouTube or just for social, or are you really creating these shows to go on streaming services? It's a mix of both. I think any modern studio should have a good mix of socials, clipping, long form, streaming. So So we're definitely diving forward into the streaming, I think, as a start.

43:44But I think the goal being that this can create all sorts of content on so many different levels and sit on different applications. Do you expect to do any short form series? I mean, I think the big explosion we've seen this year, right? And with like Kareem Rama and Subway Takes getting nominated for an Emmy, like people are loving the kind of vertical short form shows. So do you see a place for that as well with kind of this new funding? Or are you really focused on long form? Yeah, I think there's definitely the potential to have both. I think right now the focus is long form to tell these stories in a more in-depth, longer way.

44:23That's been one of our goals that we wanted to do. But again, I think any modern studio should have the ability to do both.

44:30Jasmine Enberg: Are you planning on bringing any other creators into the content? I mean, I feel like there's so many different avenues you could take and there's so many different perspectives on food, right, that you could explore. 100%. Yeah, I think that's what's one of the most exciting things about this. And again, it's not just, hey, let's do a show with me. We've had a lot of those conversations with a lot of different big studios that exist about, hey, like, let's come do a show, which is obviously very interesting. And we want to do that, but we want to do that and more. and you know on our team on the yes chef side we've been doing this for four plus years of traveling the world and having these experiences and seeing food i think we have some of the best minds and what works in the food space and i think there's no one who can create these concepts and bring in the right talent better than our team so 100 i think this is an incredible opportunity for us to identify other talent in the space who can tell incredible stories i had this conversation today, actually.

45:26Like, I love the stories that I tell. And, you know, I think I'm good at telling certain stories, but I think there's a lot of people that are better than me at telling other kinds of stories.

45:34Jasmine Enberg: Can you share any of the creators that you're planning on working with? Or maybe a short list of like dream creators that you wish on the show? I'll share one that I love, and he's actually a close friend of mine that, you know, would be a dream creator is Kev from How Kev Eats. I don't know if you've seen his content in LA. Like, he's incredible. I would love to figure out ways for like big creators like that to come on board and do stuff. Because now that we have this backing and$25 million from 101 to make it happen, you know, we kind of have this arm that we can flex to say, hey, like, what's your dream?

46:04What do you want to do? We can bring it to life with you. Yeah, there's people like that that are on the high end. And then there's also just incredible talent. There's so many talented creators out there that have smaller followings. But again, I think following is such like a less and less important metric. It's really about engagement and views. I don't care if someone has 10 million followers, if they get no likes, no comments, no engagements, if they don't create community and conversation, it doesn't matter. Someone with 10 ,000 followers is way more valuable if they're actually creating conversations that people want to engage in.

46:38So it's more just identifying great creators and how we can bring them on.

46:43Jasmine Enberg: So I totally agree with you when you said that, you know, followings matter less and less right now. And it's more about views. It's more about engagement. It's more about, you know, building this community for lack of a better word. But one of the things I've also heard you say recently is that it is more impressive to get 10 people to show up in a room at the same time than it is to get a million views. What do you mean by that? 100%. I think it is so challenging to take a digital community and turn them into a real in-person community. And I think it's one of the most impressive things any creator can do.

47:19It's not hard to go viral today anymore. Like you could take a video of someone walking down the street tripping and like that will probably get 10 million views. Like that goes viral all the time. But if you can get people to sacrifice their time, their money to show up somewhere, it's A, incredibly impressive and B, really rewarding. Because I think that's what really builds actual connection and creates real value for you and also for the consumer and the brands that want to be a part of that. That's what we tried to do and done with the food festival. We have a 10 ,000 person festival that we sell out.

47:55We sold out in New York. We took it to LA. We sold out. It's coming back September 26th, 27th at Citi Field, which is really exciting. It's not an easy task getting 10 ,000 people to show up in New York City where there's probably more going on than any other place in the world. So it's something I'm really proud of our team for being able to sell out now, knock on wood, for the fourth or fifth year in a row. We have our run clubs. The list closes in about 10 minutes from when we open it up because we have hundreds, thousands, I think hundreds, you know, now it's thousands of people on the wait list.

48:27And that's just growing. We've only done three of those. We're launching Yes Chef tailgates at college campuses, which is going to be incredibly exciting. So we're going to Penn State, Texas A &M, the University of Florida to do this kind of like food tailgate game style show at these college campuses. And then we have our reserve dinners where we have these incredible one-on-one culinary experiences with super high-end and curated guests, everything from, you know, businessmen, billionaires, athletes, Libby Dunn and Michael Rubin and Todd Graves and Joe Burrow. So So we kind of span the gamut of like college, super curated high ends, elevated guests, run clubs, the food festival from 10 ,000 people to 30 person dinners.

49:19I just think that is the testament of a real community and a real brand is are people going to show up and be a part of something? Yeah, I'm really just proud and impressed of what the team has been able to build and how we can take that content and then turn it into something real in person. First of all, very impressive to get 10 ,000 people agree and to buy tickets also. It's such a different strategy, right? Like an intimate 30-person dinner versus a run club versus this big festival. So walk us through that and the strategy behind kind of the intimate dinner versus this kind of large scale festival.

49:52Yeah, I think that they just attract different audiences in a really good way and they can kind of leverage each other. For us, we've spent four years going to some incredible experiences across the world and eating from some amazing chefs and seeing really cool dining experiences. And we always thought, what if we could take everything that we saw and make it our own and use content to drive people to want to be a part of it? And that's what birthed Yes Chef Reserve, which is the first, was our dinner series. and I think there's each event has like its its draw and what does I think it's really important to be able to have like a high-end offering something that people want to be a part of something that people seek towards and this aspirational event which is the reserve on the food festival and take a start at 30 40 so it's pretty accessible to most people it's 10 000 people which again it's an amazing draw and it's such an incredible and unique experience and And we bring a lot of the things that we've seen across the world, but it's just for kind of a different audience.

51:00And then same thing with Run Club and Tailgate. So we're really trying to capture every type of person and be able to offer everyone something. And I think what a lot of people don't know or maybe not understand is how much time and money we invest into these experiences to make them the best possible version for the consumer. These are not things that we're going and making money on. In some ways, the opposite. We're investing our money to create these experiences, to then make content about it, to then get more people to come. And it's a risk, but we want to truly produce the greatest food experiences.

51:40and whether it's the most incredible culinary experience for 30 people or the world's coolest food festival for 10 ,000, whatever we do, we make it the best possible version of that culinary experience. And the similarity in all of them, tailgate, reserve, festival, run club is this element and connection of food being kind of the binder that holds everyone together.

52:03Jasmine Enberg: We're both nodding and smiling, I can see, because we have an event too that we do. Well, we've done it once so far. We had our inaugural event earlier this year, and it is nowhere near the scale of your food festivals. We brought like 400 billion liters in, but there's so much work that goes into it behind the scenes. And it's amazing that people who are in the room don't see that because that means you've done your job well. But it's nice to, you know, be able to kind of express that and how much work actually goes into putting on an event like this. 100%. And 400 people is no small feat. That's incredible.

52:35And congratulations. You should be very proud of that.

52:38Jasmine Enberg: We are. We are. The other thing I was thinking, I mean, obviously you have these food festivals, you have, you know, these dinners and you have this very strong community. I mean, would you ever consider opening up a permanent restaurant? The short answer is yes. I don't think I would open up a restaurant in the typical sense of, you know, sit down and eat dinner and, you know, have a regular menu. I would, we are as a team thinking through some concepts that we think would work really well, but not a traditional style restaurant. Probably something that's a little bit more of like a scalable business.

53:14And, you know, restaurants are super, super tough industry. I think one day it would make sense to open up a Jack's dining room.

53:23Jasmine Enberg: Where would it be? It won't be traditional, but where would you open it? Do you have a city in mind? Also, are we talking like pop-up restaurant? Like, what do you mean by non-traditional? Not non-traditional, but like a, not like a sit-down formal restaurant, more of like a smaller menu, smaller item that you can then scale and grow. So like an Apollo bagels is a great, they've crushed in New York and they do an amazing job and create great product. And, you know, they have, I think, seven or 10 locations across the city. It's not just like one bagel shop or location to create. I think it's tough to build out a business from restaurants.

54:01The ones who do it well, crush it. Eugene Wren absolutely crushes it with Corner Store, 86, Arash. They're opening up a new spot. And it's so incredible to see you look at major food group. I have so much respect for people that can absolutely crush it and remain so hot in places like New York City where it's so challenging. But yeah, I would start with something probably in New York. And that's always been, I think, what attracts me to it in a way is the challenge. It's really, really hard to do well. But I look at that and I'm like, all right, game on. If it's tough, I'm down to prove people that we can make it happen.

54:43Jasmine Enberg: I mean, New York is a city for food. I live in L.A. now, and I can't tell you how many arguments I get in with people about where you find the best pizza. And I'm like, it is not L.A. Like, there is just no way. Definitely, yeah. It's New York. Pizza is definitely not L.A. I love the food in L.A. L.A. It's good. It's probably the second, probably my second favorite food city in the world. Oh, wow. And there's incredible food. In the world? Yeah. Yeah, I would say so. L.A. is incredible. L.A. is really good, but it's just a very different style and a very different vibe. And I love, like, I love sushi in L.A.

55:13Jasmine Enberg: It's really good. But like, no, you can't. Italian food of any kind is better in New York, no matter what. One thousand percent. I think Italian food in New York in a lot of ways is better than the food in Italy. Ooh, that is a controversial take. It's different. I will give you that. Yes. It's a hot take, but I think a lot of people, I've actually talked to a lot of chefs that would agree that Mario Carbone said that on the podcast too. I'm originally from Finland and there was one year where a Finnish pizza won the best pizza in the world. And the Italians were like, no, no, I don't know. Finnish pizza is weirdly good.

55:48Jasmine Enberg: It's different than Italian pizza, very different than New York pizza, but it is good. And people eat a lot of pizza there. Well, anyway, just to go back to business, events obviously logistically can be a nightmare. Like you said, big investment, but they can also be really profitable depending on kind of how you run them and the type of events. But how do they kind of fit in with your overall revenue mix? Like is brand partnerships still kind of the main driver? And what's kind of the mix? And what would be your ideal breakdown? Yeah, brand partnerships are definitely still the brand, the driver of the revenue.

56:19And I think events are great for driving more overall revenue from these partners. Do you have sponsors for the events? Yeah, yeah, we sponsors who work with everyone from Verizon to Pepsi to DoorDash to Fahe, Nespresso.

56:34Jasmine Enberg: So they're not all food brands either? No, they're not all food brands. Because, you know, when you get 10 ,000 people to a festival, obviously the festival is rooted and based on food. But there's so many things that can fold into and out of the food space that make a ton of sense to be involved. You know, I've always said, like, Tide would be perfect to have a Tide partnership and have like a sane removal competition at the festival. I think it's genius. Your podcast is called Scalable. Events are not that scalable. versus content. We are a food content company that has and does events. And events are really, really important.

57:13And even if you look at it like, okay, this is, you know, instead of our massive marketing budget, we're going to use half of it or three quarters of it or all of it to do events to get people in person to touch something, feel something, meet with people, hear their thoughts. And then we use the events to bring some incredible people together and use it as this distribution across the whole business for everything else we're doing.

57:35Jasmine Enberg: One last question before we wrap up. So what does success look like for you? Like if you think back two years from now, where do you want to be? What would make this production deal and your company successful overall? Ooh, that's a really tough question. We saved the toughest for last. Yeah, the toughest for last. We want exact KPIs, Jack. I think for me, success is really about touching the most amount of people and having the most impact through food. If I could look back in three years, five years, 10 years, and have the opportunity to have a similar impact of what Borg Dane had, or you look at Diners, Drivers, and Dives, and you see the impacts that Guy Fieri had or Gordon Ramsay.

58:23I want to just be able to continue to share my perspective of food and really add a sense of good in the world. and positivity. And if I can look back and do that in a deeper level and connect more people and share more stories, I'll be really happy. Of course, I think there's a business aspect to anything. That's why you start businesses as well to be profitable. You need to make money. So I think if we can do that, the money will come. But just creating truly the best and the most impactful food content in the world is something I've always dreamed of. So that will, in a lot of ways, be probably my definition of success is, okay, how many people can I make smile and connect through food?

59:07And if that number is higher, I think we'll be in a really good place. Amazing. Are you game for a quick rapid fire? It'll be fun, we promise. I'm done. All right. Favorite thing to cook, Jack? Favorite thing to cook right now are Arreas. Arreas are like this Mediterranean lamb pita pocket. I would vouch to say I make the best Arreas in the game and I actually want to challenge Bobby Flay to an episode of B-Bobby Flay. No way.

59:36Jasmine Enberg: We would watch that. That's amazing. What is your least favorite food? I don't like mustard. I've never really liked mustard. It's growing on me a little bit, but yellow mustard is the worst. That's true. That is true. I don't like yellow mustard. I am open to experimenting other kinds of mustard. I know in Eastern Europe, mustard is very, yeah. My grandma's from Hungary and she would make Hungarian food. And mustard is definitely a part of those cultures. I'm open to potentially trying more, but I do not like yellow mustard. Best city for food. Best city for food, without a doubt, is New York City.

1:00:15It's the best food city on earth.

1:00:17Jasmine Enberg: Best restaurant. Best restaurant is an impossible question. It really is because you can't even compare. Like you can't compare the best Italian to the best Thai, to the best sushi, to the best... Okay, best Italian in New York City. There's two spots that come to mind. Teresi, Rich Teresi, major food group is incredible. Impossible to get a reservation. Impossible. One of the hardest reservations to get in New York City. But if you can get it, it's worth it. And then E Cavallini from the same people that started Four Horsemen. It's in Williamsburg. It's amazing. Best restaurant that I think I've been to this year is a restaurant in Arizona and Phoenix or Scottsdale.

1:01:03I feel like Scottsdale and Phoenix are like the same thing. It's called Bacconora. And it's this northern style, Sonoran, I believe, Mexican cuisine. and the chef is just a legend. I think he just won award for like best young chef. But this restaurant in Scottsdale like changed my life. I have been thinking about it for a long time and it's just whole fish and whole meats. What did you order? Everything. Like I was so full. I was so full. Everything, we got everything. Everything from like incredible hamachi appetizers with grilled pineapple in between the pieces of yellowtail to amazing whole octopus to Korean-inspired short ribs to tomahawk steaks to whole fish.

1:01:48And then he would serve his homemade tortillas that were stuffed with cheese, so like little quesadillas on the side that you'd make different quesadillas with. I could not stop eating. It was one of the most full I'd been in a long time. Like I was so full, but that meal was so good. Now I'm hungry. I know, me too. It would be worth flying to Scottsdale for like a day going there and leaving. It's unbelievable. Okay, last one.

1:02:16Jasmine Enberg: Favorite food creator or food creator to watch? And you can't say yourself. I, it would, it would not be myself. I don't, I post videos and then I don't, like, I won't look at them for like 12 hours. Like, I'll just kind of like, let it be to try to separate and still be, you know, just like be a person. There are so many good food creators. I love Kev from How Kev Eats in LA. He's amazing. Johnny Novo, he started with like rotisserie chicken reviews and now he does this crazy thing where he does 100 ,000 steps in cities, which is, it's like 50 miles. And he starts at like one in the morning and goes all night.

1:02:56He's amazing. I got another friend of mine, Ian. He, his channel's I'm Eat This. He makes incredible content. And there's just so many. And every day there's new people popping up. You know, some are big, some are small, just telling unique different stories. We just had this guy, Nick, in our office who makes incredible content of like historic restaurants. So there's so many. I get inspiration from so many different people, which is great. Well, thank you, Jack. This was so fun. And now I'm actually really hungry. I know. I was just thinking about what I'm going to make for lunch.

1:03:32Jasmine Enberg: And I'm like, I want hamachi with pineapple, but I cannot make that. That would be a tough one to make for lunch. Thank you guys so much. Thank you so much for joining us and we'll see you back here next Thursday.