Dubai’s ‘influencer tax,’ a Guggenheim heir bets on creators and a big year for sports

0:00Jasmine Enberg: Hi, everyone. This is Scalable, a weekly show about the business of the crater economy. I'm Kaya Yurieff. And I'm Jasmine Enberg. Every Thursday, we take you beyond the headlines to tell you what's happening, what it means and why it matters. 2026 is going to be a big year for sports. We have the Olympics next month and the World Cup in the US in the summer. And crater economy companies are getting ready. There was some data from Sports Business Journal that came out not too long ago that said that sports made up 96 of the top 100 shows on traditional TV in 2025. And that was even without big events.

0:40Jasmine Enberg: Hi, Jasmine. Hey, Kaya. We are starting this episode with some breaking news about Scalable. We are very excited to announce that we have signed with CAA. Yeah, and we're so excited to be working with Brent Weinstein, Jacob Selzer, and the entire CAA Creators team. They are going to be helping us with everything from brand sponsorships to media and speaking opportunities, live events, and more. And they're going to help us scale, sorry for the pun, and build our business. We're especially excited as we're gearing up to host our first conference in person, which we will be releasing details about soon.

1:17Jasmine Enberg: It is taking place in Los Angeles this spring. You can sign up for our newsletter at scalablepod.com to be among the first to hear more information. But it has been quite the start of the year for both of us. We are both just back from Dubai. I have to say my jet lag is absolutely killing me. It has never been this bad with the 12-hour time difference. But it was a lot of fun. We recorded our first live podcast on stage. So thank you so much to everyone who came out to watch and also everybody who just came to say hi. We actually got recognized from our show for the very first time. So that was super special for us.

1:55By someone that we didn't know.

1:57Jasmine Enberg: By someone that we didn't know. Yeah, it was great. I'm not jet lagged because I flew Barcelona, Dubai, which is basically just like flying LA to New York with the same three hour time difference. So I'm actually feeling OK. And these are the benefits of being Europe based in some cases. Well, had we gone to CES, which is in Vegas, we would have been in the opposite position, but maybe next year. We'll see. But a couple of things that we actually missed from CES, which is historically a consumer technology conference. It has recently gone really big on the creator economy. So this year there was a dedicated creator economy space.

2:31There was also a lot of entertainment companies from Disney to Fox that made big announcements during the event. And we'll talk about a couple of those later on during the show.

2:40Jasmine Enberg: I used to go to CES as a former gadget reporter at CNN. So it's so interesting to see how these conferences have morphed. And after I stopped covering consumer tech, I was like, oh, I never have to spend early January in Vegas again. But maybe that's not true. It's also your birthday. I know. So it's like, do I like right after the holidays, then my birthday. It's a lot. Last week, we talked a bit about why the Middle East is emerging as a hub for the creator economy. And while we were on the ground in Dubai, we learned more about how the UAE is regulating influencers, which is how we want to kick off today's episode.

3:13Jasmine Enberg: Another big headline from the conference, a Guggenheim heir, yes, that Guggenheim, is betting big on the creator economy with a new$50 million fund to back startups. And that is in partnership with an Abu Dhabi-based company. So later in the episode, you will hear from Criswell Fjordalis, who is the co-founder of Guggenheim Brothers Media, who we interviewed in Dubai on the ground about the announcement. And what's next? Yeah, so it was super interesting to hear from creators as well as industry experts on the ground while we were in Dubai about how the UAE is approaching regulation. And I think, you know, as an outsider looking in, at least on the surface, some of what they're doing really does feel at odds with the message that they're sending out globally in terms of supporting creators.

3:58I mean, they were even giving out applications for golden visas to creators and speakers at the conference. They're also, of course, spending millions of dollars to attract both U.S.-based and other international creators. At the same time, this is what's happening in the UAE. So there's a new deadline for influencers in the country to obtain what's called an advertiser permit in order to earn revenue from brand sponsorships or even to accept gifts. And that deadline is January 31st, so it's coming up pretty quickly. And this move follows a new federal media law that went into effect last year that basically requires creators to have both a media license as well as a commercial license, which is something that they've actually needed since 2018.

4:45Now, these licenses can be pretty expensive. They can cost up to thousands of dollars based on some of the figures that we found. But that fee is waived for residents and citizens of the UAE for the first three years. What was really interesting, though, is that international creators also have to apply for a temporary visiting advertiser permit. And that needs to be submitted through an ad or a talent agency that is authorized to work in the UAE. My big question is, did Mr. Beast have to apply for one?

5:16Jasmine Enberg: Who knows? We'll dig around and find out. I think like, look, a few thousand dollars if you're a Mr. Beast or a creator that's making, you know, six or seven figures or more annually, it's not a huge amount, but it does introduce a new barrier to entry for smaller creators. And of course, it will disproportionately affect those who are smaller, emerging, just getting started. That has the potential to kind of consolidate more attention and revenue to the top. But it's also not just about money, right? Like permit holders also must comply with media content standards, which are not thoroughly defined on the government's website.

5:52Jasmine Enberg: And they also might have to get approval from authorities before publishing an ad. So it's not just like, okay, you need this permit to operate. There are other strings attached with that. So it'll be interesting to see if that changes, you know, how creators approach content creation in the country, particularly around sensitive topics like politics. And I think one of the reasons that creators are so popular in the Middle East is because the traditional media is highly regulated. And this was an area that there was a little bit more wiggle room. Yeah, and I think that is all of those are great points.

6:23But I especially like, you know, how you said that it could consolidate more attention and revenue to the top. I mean, that is a dynamic that we're already seeing play out across the creator economy.

6:33Jasmine Enberg: In fact, without without regulation, with or without regulation. Right. Including here in the U.S. I just spoke to Business Insider yesterday about a new report from Creator IQ that shows that the top creators really are generating a disproportionate amount of revenue. And, you know, so this is something that I think is very similar to kind of what we've seen in other industries, including Hollywood and entertainment. On kind of the positive sides of all of this, right, these permits could also be a way for the UAE to start tracking how many creators there are in the country. This is something that is really high on our wish list for the U.S.

7:10We want to know how many creators there are. Statistics are kind of all over the place. And I think governments could play a big role in helping get some robust figures around that. And I think it also helps to professionalize the creator economy. I mean, like you said, Kaya, it's not a huge sum, but it is still a lift to apply for one of these permits. And I think that only creators that are really serious about content creation as a business are actually going to go through with it.

7:37Jasmine Enberg: I think also what we find could be most interesting is the potential ripple effect here, right? Like we discussed that with the Australia social media ban, right? Once one country moves to do something, it's sort of a test case. And then other countries can see how that's panned out, learn from it, tweak it and copy it. So while the US, I think, is one of the most advanced markets for the creator economy in terms of spending, creator strategies, number of creators, it's long lagged countries in regulation across the board with tech. It's interesting because when we're looking this up, the FTC has long had guidelines in place for creators to disclose paid partnerships.

8:10Jasmine Enberg: But those rules can kind of be easily circumvented. They're not enforced. And these rules actually date back to 2009 to include bloggers. So the FTC, to their credit, was kind of ahead of their time because, you know, the creator economy was in its infancy compared to where it is now. But even though they've updated those guidelines since 2009, the enforcement has not caught up to that at all. So and what that means is that in the US, the onus really is on brands, platforms, industry organizations and creators themselves to regulate influencer marketing and make sure they're in compliance through things like paid partnership labels that creators can add to their posts or, you know, platforms limiting the number of hashtags because hashtag ad can be pretty easily buried in, you know, a sea of other hashtags or just really long text.

9:00Now, these efforts really haven't been all of that effective. There's a lot of studies out there that have tried to track how many promotional posts there are across social media. And what many of them found is that up to 20 % of promotional content on social media is not properly labeled. To me, it's still unclear whether creators are intentionally not labeling this content or if they're just being careless, right? If it is the former, I find that really surprising because there's also a ton of research to show that people don't really mind if they see a sponsored post from a creator. I think everybody understands that it is now a business, right?

9:35And that's how they make their money. What they do mind, though, is if they feel like they're being lied to or duped. I don't think that this is going to change anytime soon, that we're going to see the U.S. follow in the UAE's footsteps. I mean, there's so much opposition to regulation here. And, you know, just look at the efforts to overturn Section 230, right? I mean, those have been futile so far, although the 30-year anniversary is coming up pretty soon. So I'm sure there will be, you know, more attempts to do something about that soon. And it's also really worth noting that the U.S. has an income tax.

10:10The UAE doesn't. And so a lot of people in Dubai who we talked to about the advertiser permit interpreted it as just that, an income tax on creators.

10:20Jasmine Enberg: So we also got a lot of questions about the conference and requests for our takeaways. We wanted to share some thoughts. I think for us, it was a super special place to do our first live show because Jim Lauderback, who is a, of course, a veteran of the creator economy. He used to be the general manager of VidCon and many other roles. He helped organize the conference. So he was the one that really encouraged us to launch a podcast in the first place when we were still employed at our previous jobs. And we did this panel together at South by last year. And he told us we should launch a podcast and take it on the road.

10:54Jasmine Enberg: So that's what we did. So very fun to start that in Dubai. I think one thing that really stood out to me is that all the big social platforms had a really visible presence in Dubai. So Snapchat had a huge activation. The app is huge in the region for both influencers, but also, you know, as a way to privately message and not just for Gen Z, but in general, for people of all ages, YouTube, Instagram, All of them had visible activations. But what was interesting is that they did have regional executives there, but they didn't have a huge presence in terms of kind of staffers there, with the exception of Twitch's CEO Dan Clancy.

11:31Jasmine Enberg: You know, we didn't see Adam Masseri there. We didn't see Neil Mohan there. I think if you go to like a can or a VidCon, you see kind of more platform presence in terms of attendees. And also there were brands there and sponsors. Pepsi was a sponsor, but it didn't feel like there was a ton of brands in the room. It was definitely much more of a local audience. And then the speakers, you know, many of them were from the U.S., but not only it was a very international crowd, which was fun because I think we do spend a lot of time at U.S. conferences. But there weren't a lot of brands where I think if you go to like a can or some of these other conferences, you're used to meeting with a lot of brands.

12:02Yeah. I mean, about Adam Aseri, though, one thing that I did find really interesting is that he did post an Instagram story about the One Billion Followers Summit. So he may not have been there in person, but he was there virtually. But one company that you didn't mention that I paid a lot of attention to was X. It had a big presence there. It had set up a cafe. They had parked a cyber truck outside of that cafe. They also had speakers on stage. Last year, they had Elon Musk, who owns X. They had his mom on stage actually giving a main stage interview. So I found this really interesting because the company really hasn't been spending a lot of money on in-person activations ever since Elon Musk took over.

12:40I think that makes a lot of sense, just knowing Musk's approach to business, which is very transactional. Also, his stance on advertising. We know he does not like it very much, and I think that is an understatement. And also just this overall state of X's business. It still isn't doing all that great. That said, they have had, you know, some presence at big conferences. We saw Elon Musk take the main stage at Cannes Lions in 2024. The former CEO, Linda Iaccarino, also spoke at Possible in Miami last year. But a lot of the big activations and shows that they put on, like Twitter Beach, which they had for many years at Cannes Lions, is now gone.

13:24Another company that we both paid attention to actually was Amazon, right? It announced that it is partnering with Dubai on its Creators HQ. And basically, as part of this program, creators in the region can launch their own products to sell on Amazon. You know, I think this shows just how much tech companies want to do business in the region for all the reasons we talked about on last week's podcast, including the fact that there is a ton of money there. There is also a lot of appetite for creators there. But I think partnering with a government program kind of speaks again to this oversight that the UAE government will have over creators and at least the products that they're launching.

14:04And, you know, that has both pros and cons.

14:07Jasmine Enberg: I think in general, too, you know, when you weigh going to conferences, right, like you want to know who's speaking, who's going to be there. Like, what ideas are you going to get out of it? You know, it is travel. It is time away. So a lot of people ask us, like, OK, is this conference worth the ROI? I think it's really just what you make of it, right? Like, I think we had so many interesting meetings. It was fun to be on stage. We were super excited to do our live podcast. And I think, too, you know, this conference has become more on the map, especially this year because of their partnership with Mr.

14:36Jasmine Enberg: Beast. You know, we saw him physically on site. He did a main stage talk. He was at the speaker dinner. You know, he was he was around and also posting on Instagram and collab posting with the conference. So I think that drew a lot of attention. They also had Will Smith, Laura Trump, David Dobrik, other big names. So I think that that marketing certainly helped them because this conference is in its fourth year, but it is still relatively new to the industry. So we definitely walked away with a lot of interesting ideas. But I think these conferences, the best conversations always happen offstage at the cocktail parties and the private meetings, not necessarily all the panels.

15:10Jasmine Enberg: So one of the big themes that we're tracking this year is sports. 2026 is going to be a big year for sports. We have the Olympics next month and the World Cup in the U.S. in the summer. and creator economy companies are getting ready. I think there's always been a lot of overlap between sports and the creator economy. If you look at athletes, they are creators, they're influencers, but I think there's been different factors that have supercharged this in recent years. I think NIL is one of them. So that of course is the rule change where college athletes are able to earn money, which of course was huge and that unlocked huge potential, especially for female athletes who don't have a lot of opportunities to go pro after college.

15:49Jasmine Enberg: And then, of course, it's the fact that live sports is one of the few categories that is still attracting viewers on traditional TV. Yeah, there was some data from Sports Business Journal that came out not too long ago that said that sports made up 96 of the top 100 shows on traditional TV in 2025. And that was even without big events, right, or many big events last year. And even up from 87 in 2024 when we had the Olympics, right? Even so, I mean, I think the attention is quickly splintering and broadcasters are facing just so much more competition from YouTube, from other streamers, as well as social platforms like TikTok and Instagram.

16:28I mean, we've seen Netflix, Amazon Prime and YouTube all really lean in heavily into sports, securing rights for things and live sports like they secured rights for the NFL and the NBA, for example. YouTube also now has a Sunday ticket. And I mean, we talked about this earlier on the podcast about how I actually watched an NFL game because it was streaming on YouTube and had a cameo by Mr. B. So it's working. And then on top of that, you also have a lot of people who are just creating and sharing content on social platforms and sort of interacting and engaging with the games that way versus actually watching the live shows.

17:06So a couple of different ways in which this is starting to play out. TikTok recently announced a new partnership with FIFA for the World Cup that's coming in the summer. In December, it also launched Gameplan, which is basically an in-app hub for sports teams, for leagues and broadcasters where users can find things like official accounts. They can buy tickets. They can also create content. They're spreading the word about this through creators, naturally. And to me, it's very similar to X's portals for the NBA and the NFL. TikTok also recently launched a soccer, I mean football, destination in the UK called Footy Corner.

17:43And then we also have Fanatics, which is a sports merchandising giant. And on Tuesday this week, it announced that it's going to launch a sports media and entertainment studio with OBB Media. And the studio is going to create, produce and distribute films, documentaries, scripted as well as unscripted content focused on sports and culture.

18:02Jasmine Enberg: And it's also not just about professional athletes and professional sports. Of course, those are obvious ones in a huge category. But what was so interesting is that Spotify now is actually working on investing in more fitness content. So one of our predictions was that they would start attracting more types of creators beyond podcasters because they're starting to see kind of non-podcasters uploading video to Spotify. So they're actually in particular starting to see guided workout creators upload to Spotify. new co-CEO of Spotify. Jasmine, I'm going to need help with the pronunciation. I will do my best.

18:37I speak Finnish Swedish, so the Swedes might not like my pronunciation either.

18:43Jasmine Enberg: Gustav Söderström. Söderström. Okay. All right. Well, it sounds way better when you say it. But anyway, he did an interview with Bloomberg and he said, quote, we see people doing exercise with Spotify all of a sudden. And he points out that while obviously Spotify users have long created, you know, playlists for their runs or workouts. Quote, they never watch Spotify doing yoga in front of it. So it kind of opens up this very big, interesting opportunity for us. So that is interesting. It's not just sports in the sense of like formal sports, but also fitness content. And then we also have NBCUniversal once again, tapping creators for the Olympics, which take off February 2nd.

19:19Jasmine Enberg: And the Super Bowl is also coming up. And we are hearing that the creators are going to be an even bigger presence than in past years. Speaking of big opportunities, I think the revenue opportunity is what is so attractive to so many of these platforms. I mean, there's just so much money in sports and all of the platforms from YouTube to TikTok want a piece of it. I mean, just look at the cost of Super Bowl ads. I mean, last year, a 30-second spot during the game cost about$7 to$8 million. And the pre - to post-game spots cost about$4 to$4.5 million. That is an astronomical fee, right? I'm very curious to see what prices they're charging this year and how long these networks can continue to charge these prices.

20:01I think one thing that they have going in their favor is the fact that there's just so much prestige associated with a Super Bowl ad. And that's why we see, you know, kind of D to C brands like Liquid Death spending money and advertising during those games.

20:15Jasmine Enberg: And I would just throw into that live sports is like one thing that AI is not going to be reproducing. So true. Maybe there will be something like we watch esports and like we watch other people play video games. So maybe there is like some sort of role with AI in that genre. But like that is certainly an area that is not going to be replicated by AI. Or they can make the games more interactive, right? I mean, have you ever watched Nickelodeon's broadcast of an NFL game? It's so funny. And I did it accidentally once and I was like, I'm never going back. Right. It's great. And I wonder if there's other things that AI can can help these networks do to kind of make it more interactive and fun for viewers.

20:59Jasmine Enberg: And behind the scenes, too, of course, like AI can help, I think, with like sports training and all that stuff. But purely like we're not watching AI football games, I don't think. So that's also a safe area to invest in, I think, for all of these companies. All right. Here is what else is happening in the creator economy this week. So one of the announcements from CES was that Disney Plus is adding a TikTok-like vertical feed to its streaming service. Last year, Disney-owned ESPN also introduced vertical videos to its app. Now, they were careful to note that this isn't just trailers for their longer form content.

21:34It's really original and repurposed short form video content. And I think this shows just how much the lines are blurring between social and TV, right? Everything is just kind of video now. I also think knowing that Disney now has a partnership with OpenAI, that this vertical video feed could be a really good home for some of that user generated content.

21:55Jasmine Enberg: All right, Jasmine, you called it. Amy Poehler got the first ever Best Podcast Award at the Golden Globes. I had said that Alex Cooper would win, but you were right. Hollywood was not ready to give it to a social media native star. Another big announcement from CES, Fox Entertainment has launched Fox Creator Studios, which is a new division of the company that is going to develop new formats and IP with creators. It is starting with food and it signed deals with personalities that include the celebrity chef Gordon Ramsay, as well as YouTube baker Rosanna Pansino. Fox has been making big moves into the creator space for quite some time, including through Tooby, which it owns.

22:38Jasmine Enberg: Netflix rolled out its new podcast to watch feature, which is going to highlight shows that it's recently signed deals with, including The Ringer's Bill Simmons podcast and Barstool Sports, Pardon My Take. Again, we have a huge sports angle here as all of these platforms are leaning into sports. It's the year of sports. On to politics. Dan Bongino has resigned as deputy director of the FBI, and he is returning to podcasting. He's going to relaunch his two-hour daily show called The Dan Bongino Show on February 2nd. The video live stream of the program will be available exclusively on the right-wing video site Rumble, and the audio version will be available on other podcasting services.

23:18Jasmine Enberg: Apple announced what looks like an Adobe competitor, So they are launching a bundle of creative apps called Apple Creator Studio. It costs$12.99 and it will include access to Final Cut Pro and other apps. So always interesting when Apple starts to dabble in the creator economy. That's all the news we have for today. Now we're going to take you back to last week and to Dubai for our full conversation with Criswell Fjordalis, who is the co-founder of Guggenheim Brothers Media. Hi, Criswell. Welcome to Scalable. Hi, great to be here. We are here in Dubai at the One Billion Follower Summit. You had a really big announcement earlier this week.

23:58But before we talk about that, I want to talk a little bit more about you, Guggenheim Brothers Media, and your journey and how you got to where you are today. Yeah, absolutely. So I'm a longtime operator in the entertainment industry in Los Angeles. I've worked at a number of different content studios, always in finance, strategy, investing roles at these companies. And last year, I partnered with Dylan Lawson Johnson, who's a member of the Guggenheim family, who is also a longtime operator in the entertainment space, to launch an investment firm focused on earlier stage media and entertainment companies.

24:33And the general thesis being that there's a lot of institutional investors writing really big checks in the space. There's still a lot of capital coming in at a smaller check size, but it's a little bit fragmented. There's not a lot of firms that are primarily focused on that kind of earlier stage business and investing in them, especially ones that have grown up and kind of operated in the entertainment ecosystem. So let's talk a little bit about your announcement. One of our predictions for 2026 actually was that more creator-specific funds would launch. So thank you very much for making that true.

25:04Of course, of course. Happy to do it. Tell us a little bit about the fund. We have been, you know, putting together capital on a one-off basis for investments over the last year and a half and decided that we really wanted to scale that opportunity and started to fundraise for a proper fund in Abu Dhabi as well. And I think there's a couple of reasons why we focused on Abu Dhabi. One being that they are kind of at the forefront of what's happening in the entertainment ecosystem. And we feel like the entertainment business is just going to continue to get more global. And for us, it's important to kind of plant our flag early on in a place that's just going to, that touches so much, so many cultures and people and creatives worldwide.

25:52I think, you know, the other kind of big reason that we focused on partners in Abu Dhabi is there's, you know, our partner is a long-term capital thinker and institutional investor, and they want to have exposure to this space and know it's important, but didn't have necessarily the right team to do that. And we're trying to find that team to really help them build this strategy internally. And we couldn't be more excited to partner with Athmar International Holding that's based in Abu Dhabi.

26:24Jasmine Enberg: What does a multi-million dollar commitment practically mean? That's what you wrote in the press release. But what does that mean in terms of check size, the type of investments you're doing, the number of investments? So that multi-million dollar number is actually the multi-million dollar number that our partner is committing to the fund, and we will add more capital to that. So, you know, we're targeting to raise up to$75 million total for the fund. And that$75 million, we'll invest in, call it 20-ish companies. We're writing kind of$1 to$5 million checks, first checks, and reserving, you know, a third of the fund for follow-on investment.

27:00So, you know, in traditional venture capital, you're investing a lot more than 20 companies. And, you know, what we really feel is that there's this little bit of a gap where these entertainment businesses don't necessarily fit a traditional venture profile. And they're not big enough to kind of fit the mold of private equity yet. And so, you know, we're each business that we invest in needs to stand on its own. And these are businesses that are binary. These are businesses that are going to grow sustainably over time. And, you know, Dylan and I have, based on our operating experience, need to really feel like we can drive value to that business as well.

27:37Jasmine Enberg: How do you evaluate potential targets to invest in? What are the things that you're looking for? One big thing is this industry is incredibly entrepreneurial and being developed in real time. And with that comes the need for infrastructure and bigger infrastructure and more infrastructure. And I think that's happening now. So we're looking at companies that are helping kind of support this next phase of the industry that are helping creators and creative businesses kind of monetize better, reach audiences in different ways, create that feedback loop, give them more tools and firepower to really grow and achieve what they're trying to achieve over time.

28:18And that can be anything from, you know, production capabilities. That can be something from, you know, technology that helps them understand the analytics behind their scale and reach with audiences globally. And so there's not a one-size-fits-all for what we're looking at. I think the general idea is that we're looking at businesses that have been around a little bit that have revenue and need the right partner to get them to that next phase and in that post-seed pre-growth stage of a business. Are there any sort of red flags that arise when you are evaluating some of these potential targets, things or mistakes maybe that companies are making as they're looking for funding?

29:01I think, you know, key person risk is always something that's, you know, top of mind for investors at this earlier stage of a business. I think the, you know, we have operated in the entertainment space forever and we're not afraid of that key person being, you know, the kind of like the hub for that business. And earlier stage businesses are naturally reliant on people or those individuals. But over time, we need to make sure that that business is growing in a way where that individual becomes, the business becomes less reliant on that individual and more reliant on the business and the people and the team over time.

29:43But naturally, early stage businesses are very people centric. So I think making sure that if you are a creator business, you are thinking about two, three, four years from now and what that looks like from how you evolve and you grow. because what you're doing today is not what you're going to be necessarily doing in three years if your business is growing in the way that you want it to grow.

30:03Jasmine Enberg: I spent a lot of time covering the startup boom of 2020, 2021, when VCs discovered the creator economy. There was so much excitement. TikTok was rising. Matt ushered in a whole new generation of creators. Of course, we were stuck on our phones and everyone saw this opportunity, but I think so many investors got burned by some of those bets, right? But I'm curious, are there lessons from the 2021 boom, the startups that didn't pan out? How are you thinking about investing in the space and what went wrong back then? I mean, I think that wasn't unique to the creator space. Capital at that time was very cheap.

30:37There was a lot of it floating around and big investors had a bunch of cash on their balance sheet that they needed to deploy. And it's great that that money came into the space. Obviously, you don't want it to come in and go away. You want to build a sustainable relationship with investors. I think the entertainment industry as a whole has seen all the cycles across its lifespan of investors coming in and coming out and then coming in again and coming out. And I think these still are people businesses in their core. They're creative individuals and they're not widget businesses. And I think it's hard for a lot of traditional investors to really start to understand that this is just as qualitative as it is quantitative, and really getting to know how to build support and infrastructure around these creative individuals or teams or executives, whoever they may be, in order to support their growth.

31:34And I think you never want to raise capital at a valuation that everything needs to go right in order to hit because you cannot control what's happening in the macro economy. And you don't want to raise money when you have to. You want to raise money when you don't have to, because then you can be more strategic about what that capital is or isn't. And I think, you know, the partner that that capital comes from at these small, these not smaller necessarily, but earlier stage businesses, it comes with that. The partner is more important because you want somebody that's aligned with your growth, your vision.

32:09And you want to be able to leverage their skill set and resources to accelerate the growth that you're trying to achieve.

32:15Jasmine Enberg: Do you expect to be backing a lot of companies started by creators or not necessarily? So we've looked at a lot of both of those. I think the majority of the companies that we've pursued are in the second bucket. They aren't creators, but they are created. They have been in the creative community in some capacity. and they've seen kind of a problem in that creative community and are trying to solve it with the business that they're building. I think we're not investing in individual creators or investing in one YouTube channel or anything like that. There's a lot of other people focused on that.

32:49I think there's an opportunity for us to find the right creator that has built a business around themselves and is now leveraging their scale to incubate the next generation of creators and what that looks like in their ecosystem. And, you know, that goes back to that key person risk that still is that key person that has built this thing. But now they're trying to leverage their expertise and audience and learnings throughout their career to grow emerging creators or other creators around them, which is exciting. So we talked a little bit at the top about why you chose to work in this region and partner with an Abu Dhabi-based company.

33:26But tell us a little bit more about that and why not choose to work with a U.S.-based company? The majority of the investments the fund will make are still in the U.S. We are hoping that some of those investments we can help kind of become more prominent in the UAE and the broader GCC or take them out of the U.S. just given our relationships outside the U.S. now. There are companies that we're going to be investing in locally, of course. But I think the market here is still growing. The U.S. is obviously a little more mature. But in the next few years, we're going to start really seeing a lot of growth here.

33:59And I think, you know, there's a community here that's so entrepreneurial and like all just trying to figure it out and figuring it out in a different way than figuring out in the U.S. because they already have kind of that resource and infrastructure around them. But here, that's new. And so, you know, the UAE is such like a hodgepodge of so many different cultures around the world that are all coming together to like create and they're all creating different things. And I think that's really exciting for us to be a part of that growth and trajectory from an investment perspective, but just from like a conversation and expertise perspective, too.

34:32Like we'd love to, you know, partner with folks on the ground here to help figure out what they need in five years and how can we think about building that or supporting companies that are building that over time.

34:43Jasmine Enberg: How are you feeling about kind of the investment landscape? You know, we're starting a new year. What's sort of the mood in the investor community going into this year? I think investors are really excited about what's happening in the broader entertainment space. Obviously, the traditional entertainment space, there is a ton of consolidation happening across the bigger studios. But we feel like that's actually a great opportunity for some of these downstream businesses to not necessarily take market share. They're doing something very different, but at least do kind of stand out in what they're doing and give them the ability to grow, not necessarily like be in the noise of what's happening in broader Hollywood.

35:20Those companies still exist and they need to exist. And there's a lot of companies we look at downstream that are going to support and drive value to a lot of what's happening in that space. But I think overall investors were excited. I think, you know, we started this business about a year and a half ago, and it's only getting more and more important for a capital partner like us to be there. And there's so many more businesses thriving that we want to be supporting as well. And I think there are a couple of other investors in the space that are in and around what we're doing. And we all collaborate and share deal flow and want to do deals together and all the things.

35:59And, you know, that's very different than some of the non like the traditional finance world where they're all kind of competing over a similar deal. I've seen a lot of folks wanting to collaborate in the entertainment space on the investing side.

36:14Jasmine Enberg: In 2025, you know, we tracked when I was at the information, we tracked creator economy deals. And it felt like the shift in 2025 was investors were being more choosy about their bets, but making bigger bets. You're obviously investing more on the earlier stage, but I'm curious what you're sort of seeing or expecting for this year. Do you think that investors are choosier now than they were in past years? Are they writing bigger checks to fewer companies? Or how do you think it'll shape up in 2026? I mean, I would assume a lot of those investors don't write smaller checks. And they want exposure to this space.

36:47But there's not as many assets that fit kind of their bigger mandate to invest in. So I think that's why you saw a lot of bigger deals and bigger check sizes coming into the space. And different types of investors. And different types.

37:00Jasmine Enberg: Like we saw private equity come in and different, yeah, to your point, like different types of investors who want exposure. Yeah, and like there's a lot of the private equity firms are trying to figure out like where they can really plant a flag in the creator, digital creative economy. And, you know, usually companies are in the earlier stage or they're really, really big and they don't necessarily, they're trying to figure out where they fit in the ecosystem. I mean, when, you know, we have great relationships with all of those funds and we talk to them regularly. And, you know, one of the things we want to do is graduate our investments to that institutional capital.

37:35We don't need to be their sole capital partner forever. Like they're going to get to a stage where they need institutional grade help and resources. And that's great. Like we want to grow these companies to a point that they can they can take on money from those big private equity firms. So what advice do you have for startup founders as they are pitching and preparing this year? I mean, going through our own fundraise journey for the fund, it's hard. And there's no there's probably wrong ways to do this, but there's no one right way. And perseverance is obviously key to this and sticking to your gut and thesis.

38:10And, you know, it will resonate with the right people at the right time. I think what I always think about as an operator raising capital is it's a distraction to your core business. Like you can't split yourself and do both at 110%. And I think it's easy for the operations of a business to not be, not necessarily like on the back of one's mind, but just aren't the highest priority because one is so focused on raising capital, but it's all necessary. It's a catch-22. My advice is just to, it will keep your foot on the gas. It will come together at the right time if your business resonates with the right people.

38:51And spending time with those partners that you're bringing, it's not just about capital at that stage. And you want to be with people that really understand you and your vision and complement your skill set as well. So Kaya and I are first-time founders and creators in the creator economy. What advice would you give us as we are continuing to cover this space? Oh, my goodness. You guys are doing great. I think more of you should exist in this space and what you guys are doing because you're getting the word out of what folks are doing across the industry, across the world as well. And, you know, what I love about how kind of technology has democratized content creation and being creative or being able to get a creative vision out to the world is that there are creators in every country, in every city, in every place around the world now.

39:45and that creates a lot of noise too, but it's giving folks of all demographics, of all geographies, the ability to tell their story in a unique way. And it's folks like you that are helping amplify that, which is great.

40:00Jasmine Enberg: I wanna end on AI because we didn't talk too much about AI, but curious kind of how you think AI will impact the creator economy this year. What are you most excited about? What's hype, what's fiction right now? We are investing in AI specific content creation companies or anything like that. But every business that we look at is leveraging technology and AI to do what they're doing better. And I think, you know, we have this pendulum kind of swinging a bit. And I don't know when it's going to swing kind of in the middle. but we're really excited about the use cases for technology and in the creative world.

40:37And it evolves what that being a creative means and what do you need to learn in order to be a better creative and a better executive and a better leader too. So we're really excited about what's happening in the technology space and maybe more on the sidelines as an investor in that AI specific area, but I'm still excited about it.

41:00Jasmine Enberg: All right. Well, thank you so much for joining us. Of course. Thank you. Appreciate it.