Queer Eye’s Tan France is a YouTuber Now and Creators Take Home Gold for NBC at the Olympics

0:00Hi, everyone. This is Scalable, a weekly show about the business of the creator economy.

0:04Jasmine Enberg: I'm Kaya Yurieff. And I'm Jasmine Enberg. Every Thursday, we take you beyond the headlines to tell you what's happening, what it means, and why it matters. Creators generated 450 million Olympic views for NBC. Do not worry. I'm actually in the Olympic Village. Come here. I hear about this lava cake. I'm going to find it out. Oh, my goodness. It's a whole cafeteria. I did qualify as a creator with some of my fave gals to go to LA and meet some of the Olympic hopefuls from Milan. That's like basically the same as qualifying for the Olympics, right? And QueerEyesTanFrance is a YouTuber now. Welcome to Honorable Gaze, where we put Am I the Arsehole stories on trial here both sides, and then I throw down a verdict.

0:42Like, subscribe, and hit that notification button. Plus, what actually goes into putting on a live event? We give you a behind-the-scenes look at our first ever scalable summit.

0:56Hi, Jasmine. Hey, Kaya. And hi, everyone. Thanks so much for tuning into our weekly show about the creator economy.

1:02Jasmine Enberg: So we have spent a lot of time talking about how live events are so back. And now that we've organized our first Scalable Summit, we wanted to give you a behind-the-scenes look at what actually goes into putting on a live event. Today's episode also touches on two topics we covered during our conference in L.A., the new sports playbook and the future of entertainment. First, we talk to NBC executive Gio Karapetian, who dropped some new data on how creators drove engagement on social media for the Winter Olympics earlier this year. He first shared the data on stage at our event. Plus, we look ahead to the 2028 Summer Games, which will take place in L.A., the heart of the entertainment industry and the creator economy.

1:38Jasmine Enberg: And also where I live. Later in the show, we'll also be joined by the one and only Tan France. He's best known for his role on Queer Eye, which aired its final season on Netflix in January. He tells us what life has been like after Queer Eye and what's next for him. But first, what actually goes into putting on a live event? I'll tell you. A lot of sleepless nights, a lot of teeth grinding for me, and a lot of nightmares about everything that could go wrong. I cannot tell you the number of dreams I've had about the summit over the past few weeks. I was apparently sleep talking a lot too, according to my boyfriend.

2:10At one point, I shot out of bed and said, I'll do it right now. Honestly, that is terrifying, Kaya. I have no recollection of this at all. But clearly, deep in the psyche was my to-do list, even in my sleep.

2:24Jasmine Enberg: I know. I mean, same for me. But we also had quite a few daytime breakdowns, but we got through it. The only thing I will say, though, is that we did break our rule about not spiraling at the same time. So there is that. But anyway, Kaya, you have had quite a bit of experience organizing live events. You hosted about five, I think it was, at The Information. And I've been a speaker at so many conferences over the years, but this was my first time doing everything. And there's so much that goes into it from planning the agenda to booking speakers to picking lunch menus and also choosing things like flower arrangements.

2:57Jasmine Enberg: And, you know, after going through all this, I have to say I have so much respect for event planners, especially our own. A thousand percent. I mean, there's no way we could have pulled it off without our small but mighty team. Thank you, Michelle and Courtney. Before the Scalable Summit, I hosted two virtual events and three in person for the information. And the information is by no means a huge company. But when you're at a bigger company, you have much more resources and support. You know, I was always involved with booking speakers, picking the topic, setting the agenda, curating the attendee list and so on.

3:27But I was not making decisions like what color chairs to have on stage. I mean, I didn't even know what the main stage would look like until I showed up. Imagine that.

3:34Jasmine Enberg: Or if there are enough bathrooms. I mean, the amount of time that I have spent thinking about the bathroom situation was probably the most surprising thing to me. Yeah, definitely not something that truly ever crossed my mind. Or like if there's enough space for valet parking and like having another parking lot. I mean, as a New Yorker, that definitely wasn't on my radar. But all of these logistical things that you don't even think about. Living in L.A., the parking situation was definitely top of mind for me. But what I also didn't realize is like there's so many different ways that you can sell sponsorships for events.

4:04Jasmine Enberg: And in one of my most Delulu moments, I was like, watch out. Soon there's going to be branded porta potties or toilets at one of these events. And you all thought I was crazy when I texted this to you. But then Instagram actually kind of validated me. What do you mean? Right after I said that, I actually saw a reel from Cody Sanchez, who's a creator who shares business advice, especially for what she calls unsexy businesses. And the reel was about how lucrative the porta potty business is at events. And she was talking specifically about Coachella. But I'm like, there's something there. Take a listen.

4:36Jasmine Enberg: This is wild. So Coachella pulls in$120 million each weekend. The headliners get the credit. There's a business running backstage nobody talks about. And it makes more per year than most people realize. No, it's not merch. No, it's not sponsorships. It's not even food. Think, what does every single person at a 125 ,000-person festival have to use before they leave? Port-a-potties. Thousands of them. OK, we'll see if we get a bathroom sponsor next year. Stay tuned for that. I don't know how people would feel about it. I mean, to be clear, also, these are nice porta-potties. These are not like, you know, these are nice ones that you like see at weddings, just to be clear.

5:11But anyway. Enough about porta-potties. Yeah. So we desperately wanted to have neon yellow armchairs on the main stage at our event to match our logo. But it turns out that that's very difficult to find. There are plenty of mustard armchairs, but we could not secure a neon chair. That made sense, unfortunately.

5:31Jasmine Enberg: No. I mean, the neon chairs were such a saga. And then because I'm in LA, I had the role of chair tester. And so we found one that we thought might work because it looked neon in the photo online. And I ordered it, showed up, I opened the package, and it was definitely mustard. So that went straight back. And then we also were like, oh my God, will it clash with the outfits? Anyway, that was a whole spiral with the chairs. But we went with gray in the end, which looked very nice. But seriously, so much goes into these events. You have to mass email companies and speakers, organize calls with moderators and panelists, sign contracts, you know, read contracts, make sure you're delivering on everything for sponsors.

6:08You know, you have to remember to order supplies like tape and scissors to put your notes on our branded note cards. You have to remember to order the branded note cards. So, you know, thinking through, you know, how much food and alcohol is enough for the happy hour without kind of knowing exactly how many people will stay till the very end or, you know, be at certain portions of the day. I mean, the list goes on and on.

6:29Jasmine Enberg: We also wanted to make sure that it felt premium for everybody in the room and branded as well. So we added some special touches like we had handwritten thank you notes, which is an idea, Kaya, that you had that I thought was great. So we handed those out to speakers and our sponsors. And then we also made a print scalable magazine. and we also had a scalable spritz at our happy hour. What is a scalable spritz, you might be asking? It is a twist on the Hugo Spritz, which Kaya, you introduced me to, I think, last year. It has become my go-to drink since then. It is truly the best drink. We're really excited to tell you more about our takeaways from the summit and the content in next week's episode.

7:05Huge thank you to our venue and day of team at the Lighthouse, which is also our business partner, and all the people who helped us make it such a success, including our team at CAA. Thank you so much. Brett Weinstein and Jacob Selzer.

7:17Jasmine Enberg: The event also wouldn't have been possible without our sponsors, who took a chance on a first-time event. We're so incredibly grateful to Agentio, our title sponsor, and Agentio's CEO and co-founder, Arthur Leopold, for all of his support for Scalable from day one. Plus, a big thanks to our premier partners, Motion Society, CAA, core advisors, Greenberg Glusker, Eleven Labs, and Wheeler Group. We also have to give a shout-out to Fathers Brewing, which is co-founded by former creator-IQ exec Connor Begley, who donated beer for the event. And Camilla Creates. She's a creator who we hired to put together a stunning cocktail reception.

7:48Jasmine Enberg: And we just loved having all these creator tie-ins throughout the day. Including our hair and makeup artist, Phoebe Dawson, who has a social media following herself. She made us and our speakers feel fabulous all day. Now we just need Alice and Olivia to sponsor us. I mean, we loved wearing suits from the brand. So if anyone from the team is listening, we're here. Shameless, Kaya. Shameless. I've worn Alice and Olivia at past events, so I'm a true fan. But anyway, on to the rest of the show. 450 million. That's how many views NBC Universal's creator collective generated at the Winter Olympics in Milan earlier this year.

8:21Jasmine Enberg: That's up by nearly 50 % from the Paris Games in summer 2024. We spoke with Gio Carapetian, Senior Vice President of Olympic Partnerships at NBC Universal, who shared this data exclusively with us. We also asked him about NBC's creator plans for the Olympic Games in LA in 2028 and what types of creator content performed the best. Hint, everybody wanted to know what it was like in the Olympic Village. Hi, Gio. Welcome to Scalable. Hi there. So great to be here. Thanks for having me. Thanks so much for being here. We are going to be talking all about the creators at the Olympics today. But before we do that, we have to know, do you prefer summer or winter Olympics?

8:59My gosh, I am always so torn on this one. I have family ties to each one. My grandparents were gymnastic coaches in Ukraine for decades and they moved to the U.S. and they're in gymnastics school here. And so I grew up watching, I kind of won living and breathing gymnastics with them and then watching NBC's coverage of really was the Summer Olympics at that point. We didn't get winter until 2002. But then my husband was a figure skater and on the US national team. And so I have this tie to winter as well. I find each to be incredibly compelling in its own way. I think from a, so that's a personal, Like personally, I can go both ways professionally.

9:42I think the scale of summer is so immense and incredible that professionally kind of the summer opportunity is more stimulating. I love my winter sports. I love my winter athletes. We just had an incredible time in Milan, Cortina. But professionally, I'm probably drawn a little bit more towards summer.

10:02Jasmine Enberg: So I'm definitely a winter. Coming from Finland, you don't really have a choice because we grew up with ice hockey. and I also love ski jumping. Summer is amazing and it's always so popular and I did competitive gymnastics when I was a kid. So I love watching the gymnastics every four years. Yes. What are you, Kaya? Okay, so I'm also torn because I love watching the Summer Olympics, but my dream was to be an Olympic figure skater, which quickly I realized would not pan out because I'm not a very good figure skater. But like it was during the Michelle Kwan era and it's just like, she was like my idol.

10:35Like who didn't want to be Michelle Kwan? Everyone wanted to be Michelle And it's, yeah, that's a challenging one. Never won an Olympic gold medal.

10:42Jasmine Enberg: I should also probably clarify, when I say competitive gymnastics, I do not mean at an Olympic level by any means. I loved it, but it was never going to happen for me as a career. But creators have obviously become a huge part of NBC's strategy, which was not the case in the Michelle Kwan era. But over the past few Olympics, we've really seen, you know, creators take center stage as well, including in Milan earlier this year. So on stage at our Skillable Summit yesterday, you dropped some new data for us. So content from NBC's Creator Collective generated roughly 450 million views across TikTok, YouTube, and Meta during the games.

11:20That's a 40 % increase from the Paris games. So first kind of walk us through. Oh, 47. Excuse me. So almost 50 % increase. Amazing. First kind of unpack what the Creator Collective is, and then we'd love for you to kind of help put these numbers into context for us and what they mean. So the Creator Collective, we brought it together for the first time ahead of Paris 2024. When we came out of Beijing in 2022, we really had a moment to rethink what our partnership playbook looked like and what our opportunity to engage fans looked like. We had two games that were impacted by the pandemic, and we knew that we had to re-energize the U.S.

12:03audience from a fandom perspective. I remember shortly after Beijing, I was meeting with the head of NBC Olympics, Gary Zenghel, and I was like, we should bring creators with us to Paris. Don't think I'm crazy. We should credential them like we're credentialed and let them tell the story of the games to their communities and to their fans directly. And to Gary's credit, he was very supportive. He's like, well, how would we do this? And what are the guardrails? And who's going to oversee them? And how would it work? And I was like, I will figure it out. And I knew that it was a moment for us to engage fans directly in a more authentic way and to bring Olympic fandom back to fans.

12:43And with the hope, eventually, that if fans are able to connect with that content directly through their favorite creator in a medium and in a four and in fashion that was very authentic to them, they would then really value the Olympic experience more and potentially, you know, and hopefully watch more of our coverage, whether on NBC or on Peacock. It took then that two-year period from probably summer of 2022 until Paris, the start of Paris in July of 2024, to build that program out. It was something that had never been done at that scale before. And we had to think about what was the right way to operationalize this.

13:26How do you establish relationships with creators? How do you bring them into events? What access do you give them? What are the guardrails in place? And of course, we have to do this with our partners at the International Olympic Committee and ensure that we have their buy-in and their support as well, which we were, I'm thrilled to say not only do we have their buy and support, but they also then ran their own creator program in both Paris and Milan Cortina as well with our coordination. So it was a very structured, well-built out plan ahead of Paris. And it was our way to continue to further the Olympic movement through fan engagement.

14:09The Paris experience was a whirlwind. We learned so much in 17 days. We learned that fans loved engaging with Olympic content through the eyes of their preferred creators. They wanted to see these behind-the-scenes moments through access that only we could provide to them. The content really resonated with them in a way that was on par with even kind of standard highlights of the games itself, which we didn't allow the creators to make available in their content. But otherwise, the results of Paris were incredibly compelling for us. And then we knew we'd bring it back from La Uncortina. And then going back to the numbers a little bit, I mean, you know, 450 million sounds like a huge number.

14:57What can you put that in context? Was there a certain goal? For Paris, we had nearly 300 million views across the social platforms. and the same number effectively of creators that we had in Milan and Cortina. We didn't necessarily have a goal. We knew that we had hopes for Milan that we would actually just meet the Paris number. Winter is by far and large, what I would call a quieter games versus summer. You just have, by its design and nature, fewer sports, fewer athletes competing. And then to exceed it by nearly 50 % was the real upside for us. And when we came out of Paris, we knew that one of our learnings was just refining career selection, making sure that we're picking the right folks.

15:39And we knew, for example, that when we went into Paris, we were not only interested in sports creators because we wanted to tell the Olympics or truly everything about the Olympics and everything that Paris had to offer. I often say that the Olympics isn't a sporting event, it's a cultural event. And so you have to look at it holistically. So we very much leaned into, yes, some sports creators in Paris, but also lifestyle. We did some fashion and some food as well. We actually found that the kind of the food creator piece didn't totally resonate with audiences in Paris. And so we said, OK, well, as much as Italy is also about food, for example, we're not going to lean into that as much as we did in Paris.

16:26And that proved to be effective. We found that local takes on content in Paris proved to be very effective, but through an American lens. So we worked with a pair of French creators that create content for American audiences, AT Frenchies. and they were with us in Paris and they were, I believe, our top performing creator in Paris. And we brought them back from Milan and Cortina because their content performed so well. And we thought, well, the French take works so well in Paris. Can we do that in Italy with Alex and Tom? But then also, what is the Italian equivalent of that? And so over time, we found kind of the, who is the 80 Frenchies of Italy?

17:14and we came to Lionfield, for example, and we brought them to Milan Cortina. And that also proved to resonate incredibly well with consumers.

17:23Jasmine Enberg: How do you say tower in French? Tour. What about lap? Tour. So how do you say the rook in chess? Tour. Turn. Tourne. And all? Tour. Around. All tour. So how do you say the tower and the rook turn around the crowd? Tour for a lap.

17:48Jasmine Enberg: do you have any thoughts as to why the food content didn't work as well as say other categories what we saw that worked really well from a content perspective was the um the behind the scenes aspect of the games and so to say what is kind of the um what is the culinary scene of paris writ large isn't particularly interesting because you can do that today in May 2026. And that's not a particularly kind of compelling exercise when you're in the moment in July 2024, for example. But what does food look like in the athlete village? Oh, that's interesting. And people definitely want to see that. What does the NBC studio look like in Paris?

18:34Or what does the NBC studio look like in Milan? That's really interesting. I want to see that. How do you stand up an operation that supports 1 ,500 people on the ground and then 2 ,000 people back in the U.S.? That's an interesting perspective. That you can't get anywhere else. But the food piece, we found it didn't resonate because it was too almost generic about Paris and not Paris during the Olympic Games.

18:57Jasmine Enberg: That makes a lot of sense. I mean, I would like to see what the food is like at the Olympic Village. So I'm like, now I need to go and look at some of those clips. So we did this in Milan. And this was a moment where we were able to do something that even we had never done before. And that was to go into the athlete village and record content in there. And we had to really work very closely with our colleagues at the IOC and then the organizing committee to secure this access and kind of what are the parameters under which the media rights holder is going to go in and be in the athlete environment.

19:31but we were able to bring Jordan Hallett to the athlete village in Milan. And at that point, there were some foods that were really kind of standing out at the time. We really tried to get our hands on the tiramisu, but they weren't making it that day. But we were able to go into the dining hall and try the different pastas, try the desserts of the day as well, and allow him the opportunity to taste the food that the athletes get to eat. And that content, again, performed really well because it's a very unique perspective and that is only available at that moment. Like the dining hall in the Olympic Village is no more.

20:10So, and kind of that food is no more. So you'll never have that recipe again, effectively.

20:16Jasmine Enberg: How did the athletes themselves respond to creators coming into the Olympic Village? It's been so interesting because we've talked to, you know, other sports leagues and teams who've done creator partnerships. And because some of most of the athletes are very young, I mean, for them, they know and follow these creators. People would stop us, especially Jordan, who's so well known, and he's so iconic. And he's such a lovely person as well that we would go through and the athletes would stop him and ask for a selfie, for example. And it wasn't just the Team USA athletes, but it was athletes from around the world, which speaks to kind of the global scale of these creators.

20:49And then also the staff at the village wanted to have a moment with him as well, because again, he's so, he has such a distinct personality and people recognize his content. So you bring these very recognizable creators into places like the village or even into a venue. And they're immediately known by their fans because they have such a deep connection with their communities. The same thing happened to us in Paris. Going back to your point on kind of guardrails and when you were thinking through the program, You know, what did you kind of settle on? Did you give creators certain guidelines? You know, you gave them certain access.

21:26But, you know, in terms of production support, editorial guidelines, what did that look like for them? Yeah, it was something that we had to think a lot about. And I was an advocate for not being too proscripted in this realm. I'm a believer that the content is going to succeed and resonate most when you give creators the license to do what's going to work best with their communities. That being said, we are the stewards of the Olympic movement in the U.S. We have a decades-long relationship with the IOC and the USOPC. We will continue to be the rights holder exclusively in the U.S. through 2036.

22:04and so we have to maintain the special nature of the Olympics. One, really the largest guardrail that we provided to creators was that you couldn't include field of play, so no competition footage. We didn't, one that starts to blur the line with our own coverage and we didn't want to provide an alternative means to view the games. that was one to really to protect NBC's programming and Peacock's programming as much as our counterparts in other territories. When we post on, for example, at NBC Olympics, that the entire account is geolocked to the US. And so we make field of play competition footage available on our own social handle.

22:54But our friends across the border in Canada can't see our coverage. We defer to the CBC, for example, to decide what is appropriate for whatever their strategy is going to be and whatever arrangement that they have with the IOC. Creators, of course, aren't bound by jurisdictions. No one wants to post the U.S. only. They are global in nature. They have global fans. And a lot of the work that we did with the IOC over that two-year period was to determine, well, if creators are going to post globally, what can they post? And really that kind of the red line was field of play. That was to ensure that one, our own coverage was protected and also the coverage of our counterparts in other territories was protected as well.

23:42That was the one red line that we couldn't cross. I'll say that I reviewed all content in Paris and I saw most of it in Milan. We became more comfortable with some of the folks who were coming back to us for a second tour. You personally reviewed it? I personally reviewed it. Everything? Like even Instagram stories? Everything? Instagram stories are ephemeral. Like I would see it then when it would go up and if anything had to be adjusted, I would let them know. But nothing ever had to come down. I reviewed hundreds of pieces of content. I saw hundreds of Instagram stories. Nothing ever had to be taken down because the the creators understood the guardrails.

24:24They are such professionals. They understand that there are some things that we can do. They're afforded this unique once in a lifetime opportunity because of us. And they need to abide by it. And they also are such fans of the of the games of the athletes that all of the content was incredibly positive. It was all in support of the movement of the athletes and fully respectful of the kind of the one guardrail we had set forth for them. And so we had no issues in that way. And the content still, even without field of play footage, performed so incredibly well.

25:00Jasmine Enberg: The Milan Olympics were actually the most watched games since 2014. And I mean, obviously, people are consuming so much of the creator content on social media and on YouTube. But how big of a role do you think the creator collective played in really getting more people to watch the games on, say, you know, NBC or on Peacock? Yeah, absolutely. We were thrilled with that stat. And it's always going to be hard to find that kind of the direct link between the creator and then increased viewership on NBC. And I don't, I'm certainly not looking for that. What I am interested, however, is what is social conversation looking like across platforms?

25:36And is social conversation elevated? And the answer is yes. And so my strong belief is that we do things like the Creator Collective because it allows fans to engage in an authentic way with their preferred creators. That's going to elevate the conversation on these platforms. The algorithm then rewards the Olympics at large with more content being served to fans. more Olympic content comes to them, whether it's from us, whether it's from fans on the ground, whether it's from our creators, for example. And then that gets consumers even more excited and hungry for Olympic content. And that returns them to NBC and to Peacock.

26:21So I do think it's a virtuous cycle of many ways. I think that all boats rise here. And we're just seeing that everyone benefits from this type of relationship. It's why we do things like the Creator Collective. It's why we partner with folks like Sesame Street, for example, who are... We were going to ask you about that. Sesame, in many ways, is outside of the creator collective. But also, I think of them as just being, you know, they create a lot of social content while they're with us on the ground in Paris or in Milan. And they're, in many ways, kind of, you know, Elmo and Cookie are their own creators.

26:56And that is another form of engaging with consumers in a very authentic way. And Snoop Dogg. And Martha. And Martha, yes, yes. I mean, Snoop Dogg was a star of the Paris Olympics for sure. I think there was lots of meme coverage of that as well. When we think about reaching as many people as we can that are not coming to our own social handles. So when we think about NBC Olympics, we and NBC Sports, we feel incredibly confident that we are reaching certainly the avid Olympics fan. most likely the an avid sports fan as well and probably a lot of casual olympic fans but that we recognize that our nbc olympics reach is not all encompassing that's a lot of what the creator collective is designed to accomplish as well as how do we reach people beyond our ecosystem and the sesame component and what i would call its complement in overtime is very much designed to amplify that reach even more.

27:59So Overtime very much is a younger male demographic, and we're very eager to engage with that. And then Sesame kind of counterweights it and does more of like, I would, you know, has certainly a broad range in age, but also probably a little bit more millennial and female family skew than the kind of, and complements the Overtime piece of it. The incredible kind of the kind of the aha moment or the the very special nature of Sesame is the ability for athletes to relate with these Muppets in real time. And we didn't think that was going to be case or it didn't occur to us that this is going to be the case, but it happened over and over again.

28:45And so we found that, for example, in Paris in 2024, we had Jordan Childs was coming in and she started crying when she saw Abby Cadabby because she grew up watching Abby on Sesame Street in Milan as well. we had Elmo and Cookie Monster meet with Madison Chalk and Evan Bates the day after they won their silver medal in dance they had such a kind of deep emotional relationship with them they even called I believe it was one of Maddie's nieces one of Maddie and Evan's nieces on FaceTime and Elmo was just chatting with them and it was so organically emotional and real. And we didn't expect that athletes like this would be one of the benefits is that we would be providing a service to the athletes who, in addition to their incredible physical feats, are also really facing a lot of emotional kind of challenges at the time.

29:48Like they're in this bubble, they're under scrutiny, and this opportunity for them to engage directly with some of their favorite characters from childhood is incredibly meaningful and powerful. And that's been really special as part of the, um, the, that relationship and that partnership. What's your favorite part of the Olympics? I mean, I know it's work and you're there and it's probably stressful, but what is your favorite part of actually being there? I think that you get to meet with so many people, um, during, uh, from around the world during the games. Um, it's, it is this, there's this buzz and electricity that I have yet to find anywhere else.

30:28there's this excitement and enthusiasm that is felt by everyone. The one piece though that just strikes me every single time, I'm in venues often and I kind of bounce around venues throughout the day. When a U.S. athlete wins gold and then the medal ceremony starts and they come out and the armed services of the host country come out carrying the flags, they raise the flag and the U.S. national anthem starts to play, I cry every single time because it is incredibly moving for me because I appreciate that the decades of dedication by this one athlete and that their dreams have been fulfilled in this one moment.

31:17And they are so proud to represent their country is an incredible moment. And it's something that is so powerful about the Olympics and how unifying it is. I see it kind of in my, I feel it. I see it in the eyes of the athletes that will often cry during those moments. And the spectators as well. It's something that is very, very special to me. And I find only to be kind of, that I only seem to find at the Olympic Games.

31:45Jasmine Enberg: So I want to look ahead a little bit because the Olympics are coming to LA next, which I'm personally very excited about because I live in LA. I know it's very early days, But how are you thinking about Olympics 2028? The games are obviously going to be on NBC's home turf. So it's not the same thing as being in a foreign country. L.A. is also, you know, the capital of entertainment and the capital of creators, I would say. We have this opportunity right now, this moment in time where after our winter games, you have two and a half years until the summer games, as opposed to summer to winter, we only have 18 months.

32:19So we have this extra six-month buffer right now where we can really think about what is it that we want to do in LA. And you're exactly right. There is the way that we are thinking about LA just by its nature of being in domestic games. And then being in the capital of the creator economy just means that we have to think about it differently and at a different scale. and I don't have definitive plans to share today but what I can say is that I'm confident that we're going to bring back the creator collective in some form, if anything larger than what we had seen in Paris and Milan but we're also thinking through other elements that might be unique to LA we have thoughts right now as it relates to the venues themselves, the games themselves We're thinking about ways to provide an even more intimate look behind the scenes with us as we're building out our production plans.

33:22And given now that we have two editions of this under our belts, we know what we have to do to, one, run the program. And now we can think about how do we more deeply integrate it into our planning in a scaled way.

33:39Jasmine Enberg: Well, the good news is there will be no shortage of creators in LA. So if you want to go bigger, I'm sure there are plenty of creators who would be very happy to be part of the collective. And that's really a question I have is like, you know, how, what does that mean? Because there are going to be so many folks there. I'm excited to think about all of this. Yeah, no shortage of A-listers either. You're in their home turf as well. That is another factor. Another trend that we've been following is kind of the rise of creator athletes. We've seen it on college campuses with the rise of NIL. but we've really seen it at the Olympic Games where, you know, there's always kind of standout athletes that, you know, are showing the behind the scenes and either come in with an existing following or really blow up after the game.

34:19So curious on kind of the dynamic that you're seeing there and, you know, how you're thinking about working with Team USA, you know, especially for LA. We love our Team USA athletes so much. We have been thinking, and again, this was coming out of or leading up to Paris in 2024, our colleagues at the NBC Sports Marketing were really thinking about ways that we can engage with athletes in the lead up to. How do we build these personas that American audiences completely fall in love with during the games? And we found that structuring or establishing a formal program with athletes directly was a way to scale their social presence and to allow them to start building their profile ahead of the games.

35:10And so we've, in collaboration with the USOPC and the IOC, have formed a program called Fortius, and it works with a handful of Team USA athletes to build their social profile ahead of each games. And it's really done in collaboration with us and the athletes directly. We bring them into opportunities across the NBCU portfolio. So we're not just looking to expose them the moment that their Olympic trial comes up a month or two months or a few months before the Games, but really 18 months or more before the Olympics. And we bring them into the wide range of opportunities that only NBCUniversal has, both on the sports side and all, and the other cultural moments, the other temple moments that NBCUniversal has throughout the year.

36:06And we showcase these athletes, both in our coverage, and then we work with them to build out their social profiles. We give them kind of the tools that they need to become creators themselves, to engage with fans directly. We have found that to be incredibly successful, both in the lead up to Paris, than Milan-Cortina. We're certainly doing it again for LA right now. This is just another point in our ability to connect with fans authentically. And we find that, again, as you said, consumers love engaging with these athletes. They find them to be incredibly motivating and this is something that we want to continue to empower.

36:46Jasmine Enberg: So Gio, you have obviously played a really critical role in building NBC's creator strategy around the Olympics. But when we talked last, you told me that the Olympics job was your passion job and that you also had another main role at NBC. But now that's not the case anymore. So congratulations. Thank you. I've worn two hats at NBC. It's actually not that uncommon here. I've had the privilege of working on the Olympics in a side capacity that oftentimes has felt like a full-time job as well, while also leading distribution work for Peacock across app platforms. and coming out of Milan with a scale of what LA has to offer ahead of me.

37:27It occurred to me at the time and to my senior leaders, both at NBC Sports and also on the distribution side that we really needed someone to focus full time and exclusively on Olympic partnerships. And I've been offered the opportunity to step into the role to lead Olympic partnerships. And I'm thrilled to do that. It will continue to be a passion area of mine. And now I'm thrilled to be able to dedicate myself fully to that as well.

37:55Jasmine Enberg: And you've been at NBC, what, 13 years altogether? Almost 13 years now, yeah. So how many Olympics have you worked on altogether? I remember arriving at NBC in mid-2013. So we were about seven months out from Sochi in 2014 at that point. And I said, hi, I'm here. What can I do on the Olympics? And I think, you know, I was 20 something years old, a manager, and my leaders at the time were like, that's cute. That's nice. I want to run some data on the side. And then you can share it with a few people. And so Sochi 2014 was my, I dabbled a little bit in it. But Rio in 2016 was the first time that NBC ever started distributing, if you can believe this, video content off of NBC owned platforms.

38:42And so we were doing things that at the time seemed groundbreaking for us. We distributed one 45 second clip on Facebook a day and it had to be exactly 45 seconds and no more. And I remember doing that deal and kind of brokering that deal. We did a few Facebook lives. That was a big, big thing back in 2016. And we, in fact, had what I would call like the early iterations of our creator collective then when we had, I think at the time we may have even called them influencers, with us in Rio on the beach in Rio doing Facebook Lives. And then we also had a partnership with Snap. So Rio was the first time that we really invested in partnerships and where I had a hand in it.

39:34So kind of call Rio and Pyeongchang kind of the early years. So two games there. And then Tokyo, Beijing, Paris, Milan, Cortina. So four fully staffed games for me. and then two that I ran and worked on here from the U.S. while the team was either in Brazil or in Korea. So four to six, call it.

39:57Jasmine Enberg: Well, it's been amazing to see the evolution of it all. Yes, it's been very exciting as well. Rubrik is the security and AI operations company built for what happens after an attack hits, not just the moments before. AI has turned the threat landscape into quicksand, moving too fast for any human to fully predict. That's why an agentic cyber resilience platform matters. Automated recovery, clean data, a business that keeps moving no matter what hits. One platform, not a patchwork of stitched together tools and gaps. Don't wait for the next attack. Secure and accelerate your business at Rubric.com.

40:33Again, Rubric.com. Tan France is a YouTuber now. Queer Eye ended earlier this year after almost a decade on Netflix. We talk about what life afterward has been like and what's next for him. Spoiler, that includes producing a new show on YouTube called Honorable Gays. But that doesn't mean he's abandoning traditional entertainment either. He's back for the second season of Hulu's crime series Deli Boys as a South London gang leader. A very different vibe than Queer Eye. We get Tan's take on how entertainment is shifting, how difficult it's becoming to reach your followers on social media, and what makes someone good at scripted versus unscripted TV.

41:08Plus, we talk about why his signature French tuck styling trick will always be a classic and so much more. It's such a fun and insightful conversation, and we're excited to jump right in.

41:18Jasmine Enberg: Hi, Tad. Welcome to Scalable. We have both been such huge fans of the Queer Eye franchise forever, so we so appreciate you being here. I watched it even before it was on Netflix in the Bravo days, so I'm an OG. Whoa, weren't you like three? No, literally, I was like really young. I'm in my 30s, but I was young. They didn't have Peppa Pig back in the day. I've never seen the original version, but I can't imagine the content was right for a child. I don't think so either. I have to talk to my parents about that. Well, you learned how to dress up a room and style yourself. So that's something. I did.

41:52And I loved Carson. Carson was my favorite. So again, I've never seen the show, but I've seen everything he's done since. He's so funny. Like, he's hilarious. So funny. Yeah. Yeah. Very talented man. What has life been like post Queer Eye? I mean, this was almost a decade. Yeah. So all in all, it was nine years, which doesn't sound like a long time, I guess, to most people. But my gosh, it is so much happened at the nine years. Life changed so much in those nine years. Queer Eye was a phenomenon. Like it was when it hit, it was the first unscripted show Netflix had ever done. And so it hit really hard.

42:28And because it was their first unscripted show, they really wanted it to hit globally. And so they pushed it globally. There was a massive press tour. We did international press. press. It was a lot. And it was incredible. And that was my first time on television in entertainment. I'd never auditioned for it. I'd interviewed for regular jobs, but I'd never auditioned for it. That was ludicrous to me. And so it was baptism by fire for me. The others had all done TV before in some form or another. I wasn't an entertainer. I was just a businessman. I got onto this show and it became just this monster hit and kind of took on a life of its own.

43:11It just kept churning and churning and churning. And then it all stops and it ended. And then you start to think, OK, what is next? How do you top this? And I realized towards the end, I don't have to top this. This is what people work towards their entire careers is to have a show that is a history making show. it won more Emmys than any other unscripted show in history. We did it. Where do you go from there? And I will say that the nice thing I feel about myself is that I'm constantly optimistic, and I always believe that things will work out, and I will make moves to make those work out. and so it's not being a what do I do next is what do I want to do next not what should I do what do I have to do what actually is going to make me happy because I'm just going to say this very tacky thing but where I took care of me like being successful within those nine years you get a lot of opportunity and so financial freedom is a real luxury and then when you get out of the show you did then get to make a choice.

44:23What do I actually want to do? Not what am I being forced to do to stay afloat? And so the transition for me is, how do I make it clear that I'm not just French Tuckedown brands, even though I'm so proud of French Tuckedown brands, and I can't believe what he did. And so the question is, how do I move forward in a way that makes it clear? I'm more than just the clothes.

44:46Jasmine Enberg: Now, of course, it's a very different media landscape. It is linear TV, But even more than that, I mean, it's YouTube, it's podcasts. We have one, it's newsletters, and all the lines are blurring. And you've lived through this evolution as well. I mean, going from traditional or streaming to now YouTube. So tell us a little bit about your new show, Honorable Gaze. We got to watch the first episode yesterday. It was so fun. I feel so bad for the tall bridesmaid. If you haven't watched the show, you have to go see what I'm talking about. And I loved the graphics with the giraffe. That was very cute.

45:20Jasmine Enberg: And I love that it was in a theme. It was great because it really pulled you in. And it was so interesting to see all the different experiences that people had had. Also, I love Rob Anderson. He's so funny. His videos about the 90s and his brilliant breakdowns of movies and TV have found me in the real algorithm. The spookiest Christmas tale is The Family Stone. So I was very happy to see him on the show with you. So to be fair, the algorithm found him for me too. And I was so grateful for it. Okay, so let me talk about what Honorable Gaze is. So post-Queer Eye, I was wanting to do something as an ensemble again.

45:55I love working as an ensemble. I know that many just want to be the star. For me, I'm like, if I'm doing something entertaining, the camera will find me. If you're doing something entertaining, the camera will find you. But I really work well with others, in my opinion. And so I wanted to create a YouTube series that's like a panel show that we have in England. England has panel shows. They're really successful. Anyway, so I wanted to do my take for YouTube and I wanted to bring on a couple of people who have never done this kind of format or TV before and see how that works. And I found Rob Anderson and Eric Sedinia.

46:31Both of them are content creators. They're both comics and wildly entertaining. And I don't know if you use Reddit much. I didn't use Reddit much at all until about a year ago. and then the only Reddit I care about is something called Am I the Arsehole? And so I decided to take that, turn it into a show, kind of like a Judge Judy, but with three gays. And we're not taking real legal cases, we're just taking opinion-based cases. And so for example, if there's you as a bridesmaid and then you have an issue with a bride, you ask the internet, you ask Reddit, am I the arsehole or is the other person the arsehole?

47:09So you tell them the story. and I just thought if we take that, animate it and make it into a comedy, this could be wildly entertaining. I think we've created what is a fantastic, highly entertaining show. I am my own harshest critic. I need you to know if I've done something that's shit, I will tell you. And there were many episodes on Queer Eye. I'm like, I wasn't my best on that episode. I don't think I was that good on that episode. There were certain episodes I'm like, I nailed that episode. But with Honourable gaze. I've been so involved in every moment, every second of every episode. And I'm so damn proud of it.

47:43Like even down to the music and the branding, the fonts, every part of it.

47:48Jasmine Enberg: One of the things that struck us was the animation. I mean, that was incredible. Tell us a little bit about that. I don't know what or if any animations you watch, but I really, on a night, I watch a couple of things in particular I watch. Well, we flip-flop between Golden Girls, that shouldn't be surprising considering my wallpaper. So Golden Girls, 30 Rock, and then animated shows like Bob's Burgers, Family Guy, sometimes The Simpsons, love those shows. And there's ways of communicating things through animation that makes things something so funny that wouldn't ordinarily be that funny. And so when we were planning out the production of the show, I was like, we need to find an animator who can just really help bring these stories to life and so this guy called ryan hudson we found and i think the animations are like chef's kiss good i think the show is good without it but the animation makes it even more ludicrous when you mentioned the the bridesmaid as the giraffe like i couldn't have articulated that i couldn't have i couldn't have brought that to life through words you need to you need the visual i think it's so good how about the bride who made the bridesmaid wear a wig.

48:55Jasmine Enberg: That one stood out to me because honestly, like on the one hand, I get it. You want your pictures to look nice. They are important, but at the same time, like feels so cruel. What have you found to be some of the biggest differences between working on a streaming TV show and now on YouTube? I mean, some of the things that we've heard from creators who've made the transition from social media to TV is that, you know, the days are longer. There's so many more people on set, there's a lot less flexibility. What have you sort of found to be the biggest differences? Gosh, there's so much I could say on this topic.

49:30Of the obvious ones, you mentioned a couple of them. Being on a set is magical, very different from filming content. There are some content creators who do have crews, like big crews of people. But most TV shows have a massive crew. It is an intense process. The days are shockingly long sometimes. On a show that I did called Next in Fashion, our days were sometimes 15, 16 hour days. You'd wrap at nine or 10, you're back in that makeup chair at 4.35am. It's really intense. But one of the greatest experiences of my life, and almost every project I've ever done on TV, even though those days are so long.

50:13I can't believe I get to do that for a living. It's an absolute dream. Content creation is a different beast. It's not as regimented. And so you have a lot more flexibility on when you do it, how you do it. And especially if you are funding your own content, which I have done, it means you get to decide how things go. but you don't have the beast behind you to push it out there. For example, as I said with the likes of Queer Eye and Nexin Fashion, there was a machine behind us that pushed it out to make it clear the world will see this. Whether you like it or not, you know it exists. Whereas with social media content or YouTube content, you're just putting stuff out there into the ether and just hoping it finds its audience, that it gains traction.

51:04And let's say, for example, with any show on Netflix or any show on any streamer, I now have a few projects all over with other streamers. And I know the importance of those first 48 hours in the first week, in the first six weeks, what that data means. Whereas with YouTube, you might not see decent figures for a month, six months, a year. There's some content that I made five or six years ago that's just starting to gain traction. Social media is changing so much. And that's where so many of us market what we're doing. If you're making social content, most of us who are making social content are using social media to market those projects.

51:45We're not going on Kimmel or Fallon to promote it like you would a linear streamer show or a TV show. Instagram has changed so much. I'm an Instagram girly. I'm not too much into TikTok or Facebook or whatever. Instagram is my platform. It's changed so much that barely anyone sees my post and I see barely anyone else's post. I saw it happen a couple of days ago where I was like, shit, my engagement on Honorable Gaze is so low. When I was posting, I thought, what's going on? Why is no one seeing this? And then I clicked on just a few random friends' posts. Oh, sorry, on their Instagram profiles was like, shit, I forgot you even still had an Instagram.

52:23For example, Eva Chen, who works at Instagram, is a good friend of mine. And I just thought, I've not seen your post in almost a year. I totally forgot that you were on Insta. And so it's done something where that marketing tool is no longer at your disposal, which is a scary place to be where you're putting out social content on YouTube. And therefore, you no longer have the safety net of at least my almost 4 million followers will see it. They won't. Maybe 2 ,000 or 3 ,000 will see it, but that's it. I saw your Instagram story about this because you were announcing honorable gays and you were saying, I don't know why no one's seeing this.

52:58So how do you operate in an environment like this? I think a big reason is because of the rise of TikTok. And that has had ramifications on YouTube and Instagram as well, where so much of what we're seeing is being served to us. And in some cases, that's good, right? Like, we both found Rob, right? Maybe we wouldn't have found Rob otherwise. But it makes it harder for you to reach kind of your audience who has chosen to follow you. So how do you operate in this new environment? Kaya, that's a good question. I wish you had the answer because I don't, as you said, you saw my post about it. I mentioned it yesterday and again today.

53:30And my question was a serious question to the audience. Are you seeing this? And is this happening to you? Is it just me? Did I fall off? And I think that it's happening to many people. And a few people had even commented saying, oh my gosh, it's the first time I've seen one of your posts in months. I didn't know you were answer is. But I will say that it feels strange to say, oh, I've got this many followers. I don't. I've got as many followers as Instagram decides I've got that day. I don't have almost 4 million followers. I've probably got an average of 20 ,000 followers. That's it because follower count doesn't seem to matter anymore because you're not communicating with those people.

54:10It's a very strange shift. I'm sure that that's how people felt who were on linear TV when we turned up and came on the scene like, gosh, these guys have been exposed to the entire planet where we only get America. Every shift, you think, gosh, how is it that that changed so quickly? And how do I get on to this next carriage? I don't know. Also, I'm in my 40s. I'm not as with it as I would have been 20 years ago. I don't know how to move with those tides.

54:42Jasmine Enberg: I think you're spot on. I mean, I think every, there's always been a lot of change in the entertainment landscape. I think what's happening now though, is it's moving so quickly. Like it is not just you who's having trouble keeping up with it. I mean, we hear this all the time from creators. I mean, they don't have the answer either. I think some of the strategies that we're seeing are that they are, you know, some of the big ones that can do this are striking deals with Netflix to have a show there and reach different audiences. We're also seeing some more creators lean into live in-person events to build their community that way because they know they're having trouble reaching their core followers and fans on social media.

55:18Jasmine Enberg: But you haven't totally abandoned traditional entertainment either. I mean, you're returning to Hulu. Tell us about that too. Well, I do want to make it very clear. I hope to never leave traditional entertainment because I love it so much. And I do like that people in entertainment are doing both, as you said, content creators are trying to get on Netflix. And that I think does help, or any streamer does help legitimize their credentials or their status within Hollywood or entertainment. But when it comes to on screen or traditional media, I want to do as much as I can in that space. Hulu, the show that I'm on on Hulu is a show called deli boys i did episode one episode on season one and i was so excited to do it because it was something that was so different for me i play a i play a killer i play a very violent straight man which if you know me at all from queer eye that's not quite the brand i've pushed out there for the last nine years why tell us about that yeah well okay let me start with this Queer Eye, I would like to believe I was just sunshine.

56:29And that is my resting state. I'm a smiley, I'm giggly, I'm not very serious of a person. But the reason why I wanted to play Zubair on Deli Boys was because I got to challenge myself in a way that I haven't been able to challenge myself in a really long time. With Unscripted at this point, I've done it for nine years, but Unscripted is hard when you start out, but when you learn how it goes, and if you are, I think good at it. And I know that's such an arrogant comment, but I think I'm good at it. It's my, one of my very few skill sets is I know how to be an entertainment, an entertainer in Unscripted.

57:05You can turn on the cameras and I will perform for you. That just got so easy. And I thought, what else can I do in entertainment that really pushes me every day? I missed the challenge. And so I auditioned for Deli Boys. I did a self tape. I did an in-person audition, which was terrifying. But I got the job and I'm so glad it went well because that week I had some of the best experiences of my adult life. I got to push myself. I got to experience what a scripted set feels like, which is very different from an unscripted set. And it's encouraged me to do more. I shot a movie, a small role in a movie last month.

57:43I'm shooting a movie next month. So I want to do a lot more scripted because it puts me in a space that is unexpected for the audience and I'm really hoping that they will accept me as the characters I play. I know it's hard to not see me as giggly tan friends but I would like to believe I've worked hard enough for people to forget after a few moments that it's me. What makes someone good at unscripted versus scripted? And I think for Unscripted, you've got to, this is going to sound, but it's true. You've got to be willing to be really vulnerable to do Unscripted. You've got to be willing to go there, even if you didn't plan to go there.

58:26I remember when I first joined Queer Eye, I was very particular about what I was willing to share, what I wasn't willing to share. That fell by the wayside after about two weeks. because when we call them our heroes, they're the people who we highlight every episode. When they are opening up to you, you would be doing them a disservice if you didn't give them something back or to help them come out of their shell, you will offer them some personal information about yourself or a story that they could relate to that makes it clear, you can trust me, I understand you and I'm not going to just sit here and listen.

59:01And so I think the art of a good unscripted person is someone who can listen, shut up and listen, and then be able to respond to everything that person's saying. And then for scripted, the massive difference is you get to hide behind the character. It's so hard. My gosh, it's so hard. Even just learning lines. Learning lines in my 40s is so hard. But you do have the luxury of it not being you. You're not exposing yourself. Nobody really knows anything about you. and the way I know this to be true is a lot of my friends are scripted people, scripted stars and when we're out at a restaurant it's very clear the audience is so much more comfortable coming to say hi to me because they know me, they know my personality.

59:47This person they've only seen the character that they play and it might be a horrible character, it might be a great character but they don't know what that person's actually like. I do believe that scripted does offer a labor protection that Unscripted doesn't. But I don't think that Unscripted gets the respect that it deserves. I really don't, because it's a hard job. I don't know people just think you turn the camera on and then you're fine. It's so much more than that.

1:00:10Jasmine Enberg: Yeah, I mean, it's the same with podcasting or even just interviewing in general. I mean, people think that you can just turn on a microphone and have, you know, make a full podcast or, you know, get on stage and have a great interview without the prep work. I mean, you know, that doesn't get the kind of respect that that it deserves. But I think something you said there really stood out to me because one of the things that we've been following for a long time is kind of the parasocial relationship between creators and their audiences. And a lot of times, you know, social media users feel like they actually know the creators whose content they've been consuming.

1:00:43Jasmine Enberg: And I think that really speaks to your point about, you know, you're out there making unscripted content and people feel like they know you. Whereas, you know, with a scripted character, again, like you said, you know, you're hiding behind somebody who isn't necessarily you. I think that it then gives the audience, and I don't, I don't, I don't judge them for it. It gives them permission to treat you as if you're their friend, like their real life friend. And I see the confusion a lot in real life, or I used to in particular, a few years ago, where I'd be walking down the street in New York, I turn a corner, and somebody would see me and go, Oh, my God, good to see you.

1:01:22hug and then somebody taught me this trick a long time ago which is hi i'm tan what's your name and as soon as you say that they're like oh my god i'm so sorry i forgot we don't know each other i'm like yeah we don't but that's okay it's nice to meet you they forget that you're not truly their close friend for a heartbeat that can cause some quite honestly sometimes some weirdness with boundaries to go back a little bit to the show you know what is there certain things you've taken from streaming and traditional to now youtube i mean obviously it's very different One thing that kind of struck me is you guys are, you know, behind pretty normal backdrops, but then you have the graphics, which make it more interesting.

1:01:59So it's produced, but I think there is something about, and this is something Jasmine and I talk about all the time. Like we, you know, tape this from our homes, but now, you know, production on social media is getting pretty high quality. Like these podcasts, that's what, yeah, we're like, do we need, like I'm using my Mac book, you know, camera and a light that I bought on TikTok for$5. Like, I'm like, it kind of works. But are there certain things you're taking from streaming into this? And like, what's the right balance for YouTube? I won't profess to know the answer to that. I will give my opinion on that.

1:02:30The balance for me is this. When I first wanted to launch this YouTube series, I made it really clear. First off, quite frankly, I couldn't afford to make a TV show version. A TV show version would have cost a few hundred thousand dollars an episode. It wasn't going to happen. And so I wanted to do this on YouTube. And so I made it clear, I don't want it to feel like a traditional YouTube new series where it's just the production qualities are not usually there whatsoever. There's no real format. It's a lot more loosey-goosey. I didn't want that. I wanted to take what I learned from streamers.

1:03:07So to answer your question, a lot of almost every show you see has some kind of format, some kind of planned production. There's some kind of running theme. And so you kind of know what to expect episode to episode. You have an episode arc, typically. I wanted to target my age group, who's also on YouTube. When I use YouTube, I'm typically sat on my sofa or in a hotel sofa or on a hotel sofa, sorry, with my food or my takeout order or my room service. I put on YouTube and I want at least 10 to 15 minutes so I can eat that meal and not have to grab my remote or phone or change the channel. I wanted to produce a almost TV show format on a YouTube style budget that was 15 minutes long where you can have a meal, you can just hang out with a friend and watch enough where you don't have to constantly every three minutes click on something different.

1:04:06And when it came to production, what sound is involved? What music rights do we have? How are we editing this so it feels like a hybrid of YouTube and traditional media? Because I'm not a YouTuber. I wasn't a YouTuber. I don't want it to feel just like a YouTube show. I want it to feel like a hybrid so that everyone feels like it makes sense for them.

1:04:29Jasmine Enberg: Out of curiosity, what is a YouTube-like budget to you? I mean, we've spoken to other creators and some of them are spending up to$5 ,000 a minute on shows. Others are spending$500 a minute. Where do you land? Well, it depends on the program, the format. For me, I won't give you the exact amount, but for me, it's definitely not a low budget. it's that I wanted it to feel like premium YouTube content. So it's a few thousand dollars an episode because animation costs a fortune. I could have taken the animation out and it would have been a couple of thousand dollars an episode, no big deal. But I wanted it to feel premium and that costs a lot.

1:05:11Animation costs a fortune. And just so you know, our limit is like 90 seconds per 15 minute episode of animation. And still that's a fortune. So yeah, the budgets are high, but high for YouTube, but it depends on what kind of content you want. I will also say that I felt pressured to do nice content because of who I am. If I wasn't already known, if I wasn't already an entertainer, I probably would have thought I'll gingerly enter YouTube. I'll spend a couple of hundred dollars an episode and we'll build to something bigger. But I have a reputation to protect awesome. I didn't want people thinking you put a new series and it's garbage.

1:05:53Get out of here.

1:05:54Jasmine Enberg: So you're funding the show yourself through your production company, French Tech Media. But tell us a little bit more about how your revenue breaks down and how you're thinking about monetizing the show. So monetizing the show happens in two ways. AdSense, which is money that you get per click or per view. But really it's sponsorship. We don't have sponsorship yet. Once the show finds its audience, hopefully you'll get a sponsor who can at least cover some of the production, if not all of the production of your series. And therefore, hopefully you can do multiple seasons. And so that's the goal for me is when it comes to monetizing it, it's monetizing it so I can do more series.

1:06:34For me, all I'm hoping is that the sponsorship pays for an additional season and then even more seasons because I love doing this show. But I've never really thought of this being my income. Maybe that's silly and maybe that's naive, but that's not the way I see it. My traditional media is my paid job. We'd love to do a little rapid fire with you if you're getting that. Tan, what is the best career advice that you've ever received? Oh my gosh. It was from my dad. He passed away when I was 13, but it's the one thing I really remember, which is he used to say to my older siblings, do everything, learn everything.

1:07:10We were the children of immigrants and my dad used to work random jobs before he then started his own business. But that's exactly what I did when I started my own company. I worked for many businesses so that I could then do it on my own and not have to worry about paying staff for the first couple of years.

1:07:28Jasmine Enberg: You're a YouTuber now. So what is something that social media creators can do that TV never allowed you to do? Be completely myself. off um on if you've ever seen anything i've done on uh netflix in particular you'll see i've edited a lot and um most people assumed especially before i started doing youtube stuff that i was a prissy princess who doesn't swear and is always uh polite which i've got the most foul language on the internet is disgusting and it lets me be free and i really appreciate being myself What's your favorite Reddit dilemma? When two parents end up dating and the kids end up dating, what do you do?

1:08:08Who has the right to stay together? They independently found each other. What happens in that situation?

1:08:13Jasmine Enberg: Three staples you need to have in your closet. A great pair of jeans, a great white button-up shirt, because you can dress it up, dress it down in many, many ways. and the perfect black shoe, be whatever you want, whether it's a heel, a flat, a boot or whatever. But just with that, you can create many different looks with adding just one other thing and it turns it into a new thing. Biggest fashion faux pas? Crocs. It's just not for me. French tuck, is it still in? Will always be in. It's a classic. I know you're a big foodie cooking fan too. So what is your favorite comfort meal? This is going to make no sense to you if you don't eat Indian food, but dal and rice or dal and roti.

1:08:53In English, you would call it a lentil soup. Gorgeous. What is your least favorite food? Watermelon. I think the taste of any kind of melon, it turns my stomach. The smell is disgusting and the taste is vile. I don't care how sweet it is. I literally vomit if I can feel it in my senses. What is always in your fridge? Milk. I know that's so silly, but whole milk because I have it in my coffee. I have it in my cereal. I still eat as if I'm 13 years old.

1:09:22Jasmine Enberg: What is one cooking tip everyone should know? If you're going to use onions in something, cook them properly, brown them to death. The browner they are, even though you think they're burnt, they're going to create great flavor. Thank you, Tan, so much. This was such a joy and equally entertaining and insightful. So thank you. Thanks so much. It was lovely to meet you both. Thanks for having me on. I really appreciate it. Thank you so much. We so appreciate you being on.

1:09:49Thank you.