What big tech earnings mean for the creator economy

0:00Jasmine Enberg: Hi, everyone. This is Scalable, a weekly show about the business of the creator economy. I'm Kaya Yurieff. And I'm Jasmine Enberg. Every Thursday, we take you beyond the headlines to tell you what's happening, what it means, and why it matters. TikTok also announced its first ever U.S. awards show called the TikTok Awards. What else? And some of the award nominees include Alex Earl, Alex Warren, and Adam W. You remember the Timothee Chalamet lookalike contest? the YouTuber, which spawned so many others. So the YouTuber behind that, Anthony Patero, he co-founded a new marketing company that he launched this week called Pufferfish, which will help brands make viral ads.

0:44Jasmine Enberg: Hi, Jasmine. Hey, Kaya. We are in New York this week in a brand new studio that opened this week from Jenny Media, which is the amazing production company that edits. our podcast. And we're the first to use the studio, which is so exciting. We are inadvertently matching the studio as well and each other. People always are like, do you plan your outfits? We do not. Once we did. But not when we showed up in the same outfit I've been called. No, that was crazy. That was crazy. But we are in New York this week for the opening of The Lighthouse. For those of you that don't know The Lighthouse, it is part of the Wheeler Group.

1:21Jasmine Enberg: And I like to think of it as like Soho House meets co-working space and YouTube studios, if you remember YouTube studios. So it has production facilities. It's really designed for the creator economy. So we're super excited to be part of the opening festival. After this, we have our fireside chat and a little happy hour to kind of soft launch scalable on what we're doing. So we're excited to see some of our new subscribers. It's also a very cool location. It's the pencil factory, the old pencil factory in Greenpoint. So I and I were lucky enough to see some of it as it was getting ready or as With no walls.

1:52No walls and barely any ceiling. So I'm excited to see what it looks like now. But we do have a lot to get to today, including big tech earnings. We're also going to be talking about Netflix's new push into podcasts. But last week, we also promised to share a little bit more about what we've been up to for the past month or so. So why don't we start there? Because it's been quite a roller coaster for both of us.

2:16Jasmine Enberg: So much has happened. So I left about two months ago from my job from the information. My lease was ending in New York. I've been in New York for 10 years. And I put my stuff into storage and was like, I'm going to be a nomad and spend some time in Europe. So I was in Sicily. I was in Mallorca and just like unplugged for a month, which was very needed. My screen time was like one hour a day. I was like, this is great. Was that hard? No, I just didn't look at my phone. Like the only thing I needed it for was like Google Maps. I was like taking some pictures. So that was really fun. And then over the past month, we've been like really busy and heads down and keeping obviously everything super quiet about what we're doing.

2:59Jasmine Enberg: So after my little European job, I flew to L.A. to see you and really get started and work on Scalable. And keeping everything quiet was really difficult because a lot of people suspected once I had left eMarketer about a month after you left the information. I actually spent my last day in Brazil on stage which was just such an incredible 13-year career but it was crazy because I'd also just moved house a couple of days before that and then a couple weeks later I jetted off to MIPCOM where you were as well at Cannes and there it was even more difficult to keep things quiet because we saw so many people from the industry and with you and I there together I mean I think a lot of people started to piece together and we just kind of had to lead them in a different direction.

3:44Jasmine Enberg: I don't know how successful we were. And for those of you that don't know MIPCOM, it's a conference that happens in Cannes, same place as Cannes Lions, but it's really focused on TV show buying and it's very European focused. So it definitely had a European focus, but this was the first year that they really focused on the creator economy. They had creators involved and they had programming focused on the creator economy. So you can sort of see, it was very emblematic of the moment we're in where these traditional areas are trying to figure out how to integrate the creator economy. It was also very content driven, much more so than CanLions.

4:17And like a lot of deal making. There was a lot of deal making, but it was so interesting to see that at least the creator economy sessions that I attended and the AI related sessions that I attended, like they were full rooms and people were taking notes. They were taking pictures. They were really engaged and wanted to learn. Yeah. I think at CanLions, it's much more show and spectacle. a lot of this stuff gets done which is so nice to be in can with it not being 100 degrees and

4:43Jasmine Enberg: like everything not being super crowded yeah so we did that which was fun that was a lot of fun um and the other thing that was really interesting though about mipcom was youtube right because youtube was a big partner this year there was so much press about them there was this big lead up it was like youtube is going to be the star of mipcom and then it didn't really feel that way like yes of course like there was content around youtube they hosted a happy hour that was very well attended but I think maybe just in comparison to how big they go at Cannes Lions it felt very muted right yeah and they were sort of in the back of the palais they were the main area so it sort of was still like okay the greater economy is still you know a little bit to the side even though everyone knows and their tagline was so interesting let's stream together and I think that was also just very emblematic of the audience that was there and yes you know obviously YouTube has become such a big threat to many of these traditional media businesses and, you know, kind of promoting this kind of convergence, right, between the digital and the traditional world.

5:42Even through that tagline was just really fascinating. Yeah.

5:45Jasmine Enberg: So now we're transitioning into being founders, which is totally different. And I think we have the advantage of like covering the space and knowing people in the space and being able to like reach out to people for advice, but it's very different actually doing it. And I think this launch and having partners and help from Beehive to the Lighthouse, I don't think we would have been able to pull this together in a month. In a month? No way. I mean, there were so many things that we just didn't even know to ask or didn't know would be an issue. And, you know, we had so much IT support, which I think was critical.

6:15And even getting the newsletter out. I mean, we had a point person from Beehive who is incredible and making sure that everything ran smoothly because that's not either of our strong suits. And I don't even know where to

6:26Jasmine Enberg: start on some of those things. So it really has been, I mean, we spent so much time saying that being a creator isn't easy. And now that we're on the other side and actually practitioners and trying to build a business in this industry, it's become so much clearer to me that it truly is. It looks a lot easier than it actually is. No, totally. But it's also a lot of fun. Yes, it is. It is fun. And it's exciting. It's re-energizing. And it's fun to kind of decide and build this and think about what this will be. Okay, let's get into the news. It has been a very busy two weeks for earnings as well as for us, but also for big tech companies.

7:02Jasmine Enberg: What have been kind of your top takeaways from the earnings that have been released? Yeah, I mean, overall, it seems that the digital ad market is strong, all things considered. I mean, investors obviously weren't happy with Meta's hefty AI spending, but its core business grew by 26%. We also saw YouTube's ad revenue growth accelerate to 15%, both of which are strong signals for the state of the ad market. That doesn't mean necessarily that every platform did quite as well. I mean, there was less talk about economic volatility this time around. Dude, that's just priced in at this point. I think it's priced in for a lot of advertisers at this point.

7:42That doesn't mean it's not weighing on ad budgets. Pinterest talked about it on the call. They said that they had more muted growth in Q3. because of some tariff-related challenges. They also issued pretty disappointing guidance for Q4, which sent its stock down about 20%. But I think advertisers are doing what they always do whenever there's economic uncertainty, and that means consolidating more of their spending into bigger platforms like Meta, like YouTube.

8:09Jasmine Enberg: Let's dive into Meta a little bit more. So we had the hefty AI spending, which is not new, right? They've been talking about how much they've been investing in AI, and then we also saw Reels milestone, which was really interesting. Yeah, so on the AI front, I think a lot of what happened or the stock reaction specifically was due to optics, right? You're right. Meta has been spending on AI for a long time. It is certainly not the only company that's ramping up spending in that sector. But Meta executives spent so much time on the call talking about sort of more futuristic applications of AI. Investors don't like that too much.

8:44No, they can think very short term, right? They didn't focus as much on what's happening within their business right now, how their ad business is benefiting from AI. To be fair, we have heard that story so many times. And the 26 % revenue growth shows that it has been able to turn AI into a growth engine for its core business. But if you put that into the context of some of the recent fumbles that Meta has had, like Mark Zuckerberg's failed AI glasses demo at Meta Connect in September, I think investors were just looking for more here.

9:16Jasmine Enberg: And we didn't hear much about creators at all, but we did hear about Reels. And they did have quite a big milestone. They did. Meta said that Reels now has an annual revenue run rate of$50 billion. This is across their apps. This is across their apps. It's Facebook and Instagram. But for context, TikTok generated about$26 billion in ad revenue last year, according to eMarketer estimates. YouTube was at about$36 billion, according to its company reports. So if Meta were to spin off Reels into a standalone app, which I think you were the first to report. We broke that news information that they were thinking about it.

9:53Jasmine Enberg: I mean, this was during the TikTok ban. So I think they were thinking strategically. It was also during the FTC trial. But who knows? They might still do it. Yeah, but I think, you know, if they were to, it could very easily be the biggest short form video app out there based on ad revenues. Assuming, of course, it continues on the same trajectory. What did we hear from YouTube? We heard some interesting things around shorts, I thought. Yes. So YouTube spent some time talking about shorts and how shorts now earns more revenue per watch hour than long form video. Just in the U.S. Just in the U.S.

10:23Jasmine Enberg: Yeah, that's so interesting to me because I think that's a positive because I think for so long investors and kind of industry folks in the creator economy were skeptical that short form could be as lucrative as long form advertising. I think what we don't know is how that's translated to creators, because the way they share revenue on shorts is different than long form. But it seems like a positive signal. And I think it just takes a while sometimes. Like with stories, we have the same story, right? Like it just took a while for them to monetize stories in the same way. And same with Reels, right?

10:52If I remember correctly, Reels was released in 2020. So it's been, you know, about five years for it to reach this point. I think, you know, you're right. There was a lot of skepticism around shorts. I think it's very interesting that YouTube chose to highlight that this quarter. I mean, it goes to show that they're really focusing on shorts, but they're also focusing on the living room. Which to me feels at odds, but they'll tell you no because they're like, people watch shorts on TV.

11:17Jasmine Enberg: I don't. I do not. I think it's a horrific experience, actually. And they're working on the product. But I think you can sort of see their core priorities, like living room, YouTube TV, subscriptions, shorts. Well, I think they're trying to be a little bit of everything to everyone, right? And that is kind of what YouTube is. I think that's been one of the biggest challenges for it as a business is that everybody uses YouTube a little bit differently. It's the number one place for podcasts. Some people watch it on their TVs. Some people watch it on their phones. Some people are watching shorts.

11:47Others are watching long-form video. Some people are now watching live sports. I mean, I know I did when the first NFL broadcast.

11:54Jasmine Enberg: Although, if you have ESPN on YouTube TV right now, you are not watching it because they're locked in a feed-a-fue. And I think that makes it so popular among consumers. But for advertisers who've long held off and investing as much in YouTube, a lot of it is because they just don't know how to bucket it. What is it? Is it a social media app? Is it a podcasting app? Now, is it, you know, a streaming TV app? And obviously all of that is converging and people don't think about it that way. But just because of the way that advertiser budgets are set up, they have to. Yeah. Another one, I didn't pay too much attention to Netflix earnings in past years, but now I have been because they started talking about creators on the calls.

12:34Which is a shift.

12:35Jasmine Enberg: Yes, which is a huge shift. Obviously, they're going much deeper into video podcasting now. But what stood out to you kind of on the Netflix side? Well, one thing that was really interesting was that their ad revenue grew really, really quickly. Now, Netflix spent a long time saying they never released ads. And of course, we know that they've had an ad supported tier for quite some time. I also found it fascinating just how much they were talking about creators. They talked about Mark Rober. They also talked about their new deal with Spotify, which I'm super curious for your take on. Yes. I think what's so interesting is earlier this year, I think it was on one of their earnings calls early this year, Netflix made this proclamation like, we want to get into video podcasting.

13:12Jasmine Enberg: So I was doing some digging around that time, like in May, June. And I'm like calling agents and people that work with creators. And they're like, yeah, where are these Netflix deals? Like, what's happening? Like nothing was really happening at that time. And then this week, Hollywood Reporter reported that like CAA, WME, UTA, all these agents are now getting requests from Netflix. They're in discussions now with iHeartRadio to also license shows. And I thought what was so interesting about this deal with The Ringer and Spotify is that those podcasts, those video podcasts cannot be on YouTube.

13:43Jasmine Enberg: I mean, one, like Netflix must be giving something really exciting for them to give up that revenue. But it was really a contrast to what I was hearing earlier this year. I published a story about kind of how YouTube was or how Netflix was trying to woo YouTubers. And they were coming to YouTubers with these deals and saying, you know, we want exclusive content. Like, what if you wait a week or wait X amount of time to post your YouTube video? And it was a non-starter for so many of these YouTubers because they don't want to do anything to mess up the YouTube algorithm, the monetization. Like, they've been on YouTube for a long time.

14:18Jasmine Enberg: But there's so much prestige that comes with being on Netflix. And I think that's a big part of it. I went to YouTube's For Your Consideration event for the Emmys earlier this year. And Rhett and Link from Good Mythical Morning were on stage. They were up for a primetime Emmy, I believe. And they were asked by the interviewer, you know, why do you want this? And they're like, because we do. And I think for so many creators, even though YouTube is a place where they know they have to be, right? It's where their core audience is. It's generally where they're monetizing. the idea of being you know on Netflix next to you know shows from Hollywood studios it has legitimacy and prestige right and it's also sort of a stamp of approval and I think we've seen this time and time again especially with Netflix where it's like think about friends right like it found a whole new audience with Gen Z and just like had this huge revival by coming onto Netflix but I think with YouTubers they're still yes they want the legitimacy but they're like okay but it has to be good terms for me.

15:16Jasmine Enberg: So that's what's so interesting, I think, to me about the podcast deals being different. And we'll see how the iHeartRadio deals pan out. But they're obviously willing, you know, some of the podcasters are willing to obviously give up the YouTube revenue. How long do you think we're going to keep calling them podcasts? I know. Well, it's like podcast, YouTube creator, like all these things like it's just all morphs into like they're just shows. Yeah, they're shows really at the end of the day. So I'm excited to see what Netflix does. I mean, the other interesting piece of this is that so many of the big, big podcasters signed deals last year.

15:48Jasmine Enberg: So Alex Cooper with Sirius, Joe Rogan with Spotify. And a lot of these deals were just focused on advertising rights. So it will be interesting to see, can like Netflix come into an Alex Cooper and do some sort of exclusive video deal with her on Netflix? Like we kind of have to see what happens there. And we're already seeing Ashley Flowers company, Audio Chuck. She is the extremely popular host of a true crime podcast. They just launched, they just announced a big deal with Tubi to have their video episodes go on Tubi, which also I think that is a very key company to watch because they are going really big into creator economy initiatives and work with creators.

16:29Jasmine Enberg: And that deal was$150 million. And if you think about Alex Cooper's SiriusXM deal for Unwild, that was$100 million. So there's also huge opportunity, I think, with video from a revenue standpoint, too. I wanted to talk also a little bit about that Bloomberg article that you sent me because it feels like there's just so much momentum around podcasting right now but also there are people out there who say that the medium needs a bit of a reinvention yes and you know there's been I was happy to read that I was too on a personal level the story basically said like hosts are doing monologues and like having co-hosts and like not wanting to recycle the same guests over and over again and I think when we were thinking about our show like it's odd that we'll never have guests But we were like, that's not the core way that we want.

17:12Jasmine Enberg: We're going to be very specific about the guests that we choose. Yeah. So I was like, oh, OK, we're like kind of accidentally on the trend. But that was just sort of our gut feeling of how we wanted to do this. And I think for me, like that just stood out to me as like the saying that everybody has a podcast now. Right. And so many of them are just single hosts who are having, you know, a monologue with their audience or bringing on the same guest. I think the example that was given in the article was, you know, when an author goes on a book tour. and then basically just appears on every single podcast.

17:40And so I think, you know, now we have gotten to this point within podcasts that there is a moment where there could be a little bit more of a shakeup. Yeah, and I think we're, like, even if you look at Alex Cooper, right?

17:51Jasmine Enberg: Like, I think she's always a good example of what's happening. But, like, she's had killer A-list guests, like, one after the other. But she also is doing solo episodes and kind of speaking to, like, her core audience about, like, different issues that I think are important to her core. So she's actually doing both also, which is interesting. Okay, so before we sign off, we're going to do a little rapid fire of headlines of what you should know from this week. You can also find these in our newsletter. Yes, these are stolen from our newsletter. Okay, we alluded to this, but Google and Disney are locked in a fee dispute over YouTube TV.

18:25Jasmine Enberg: Disney tried to appeal to YouTube by saying, like, okay, let ABC be live for election night. Google said no and that people can tune into election coverage lots of places and that it would be confusing to customers to bring it back. So we'll see how things pan out there with the dispute there. TikTok also announced its first ever U.S. awards show called the TikTok Awards. What else? Yep. Also with Tubi. Also with Tubi, yes. And it'll take place on December 18th at the Hollywood Palladium in L.A. And some of the award nominees include Alex Earle, Alex Warren, and Adam W. you. I'm very interested about the Tubi partnership with it.

19:02Jasmine Enberg: I'm very curious. Hopefully they'll give us some answers on that. We did ask. As part of earnings, Spotify announced that there are now almost 500 ,000 video podcasts on Spotify and that more than 390 million users have now streamed a video podcast on the platform. So that's more than double from, or yeah, almost double. We'll say roughly double from June of last year when they had about 250 ,000 video podcasts. So the video, something's working with the video podcast. Something is working. Whatnot, a live shopping startup, raised$225 million in Series F funding, co-led by DST Global and Capital G at a valuation of$11.5 billion.

19:41That is more than double its valuation in January.

19:45Jasmine Enberg: And Whatnot is one of those companies that I've been tracking for a while because in, I think it was 2021, they raised three rounds of funding in one year. And again, this is now in 2025, they've raised two massive rounds of funding. So I think the startup ecosystem has been really shaky on the creator economy side, but we're starting to see kind of some of these big winners start to emerge. And I think what's interesting about Whatnot is it started really with like collectibles, like physical collectibles. And it's a different type of creator because it's people that are selling stuff online.

20:13Jasmine Enberg: And yes, it's entertaining, but like it's sort of like an Etsy shop. It's kind of a live shopping space to just be so fascinating. And it's had so many stops and starts. It has had so many stops and starts. I mean, TikTok is the first one to really start to make it work. But it's interesting to see, you know, a startup like whatnot really being able to raise that kind of money. And there seems to be investor appetite for it, at least. Especially in this economy. I don't think they're doing anything with AI. Okay, Rolling Stone Magazine. I thought this was an interesting example because they're using past interviews they've done.

20:43Jasmine Enberg: So conversations with Bob Dylan, Ray Charles, Eddie Murphy, all these big names. And they're turning it into a new video podcast series on YouTube. So I think this is such an interesting playbook for legacy media companies. Like they have so much amazing content that they are now trying to reformat, I think, for the modern era. So we'll see how that turns out. Stephen Bartlett, host of the Diary of a CEO podcast, announced last week that his holding company, Stephen.com, closed new funding, which was led by Slow Ventures. And Aparan closed new funding that values his company at$425 million. Diary of a CEO for Context has more than 13 million YouTube subscribers and is ranked number 19 in Spotify's Top Pad podcast.

21:27Jasmine Enberg: I mean, that was a big moment for the creator economy, especially for the creator economy in Europe. I think it was one of the largest valuations that we've seen, at least out of that region. And then if you remember the Timothee Chalamet lookalike contest, the YouTuber, which spawned so many others. And so the YouTuber behind that, Anthony Patero, he co-founded a new marketing company that he launched this week called Pufferfish, which will help brands make viral ads. So he's really using that to be Chalamet's success and running with it. And our last one is so cute, and I'm so excited to read it out.

22:00But make a wish requests to meet influencers have more than doubled in the past 10 years, according to Axios. And those requests now make up 32 % of the wishes granted by the nonprofit within the entertainment industry, which is the second biggest category behind music.

22:15Jasmine Enberg: Well, thank you so much for tuning in. Don't forget to subscribe to our newsletter if you haven't. And we'll see you back next week. And see some of you at the Lighthouse later. Yay!

22:30Thank you.