Will YouTube Ever Fund Creator Content Again? (YouTube's Head of Creators Answers)

0:00Hi, everyone. This is Scalable, a weekly show about the business of the creator economy.

0:04Jasmine Enberg: I'm Kaya Yurieff. And I'm Jasmine Enberg. Every Thursday, we take you beyond the headlines to tell you what's happening, what it means, and why it matters. Don't do it. You can't be a YouTuber if you don't lean in and really understand the very inner workings of your business. You are not going to out-video yourself into fandom. Having a viral moment can change your month, but cultivating a real community can change your life.

0:34Hi, Jasmine. Hi, Kaya. And hi, everyone. Thank you so much for tuning into Scalable, our weekly show about the business of the creator economy.

0:43Jasmine Enberg: Is YouTube ever going to start funding shows again, similarly to YouTube Originals? That has been a question that's been on our minds all year as its biggest rival, Netflix, keeps striking deals with YouTubers and YouTube ramps up its efforts in premium content in order to attract TV ad and subscription dollars. We've been asking YouTube executives directly about this, and each time the answer has been no. But behind the scenes, YouTube CEO Neil Mohan has been debating whether he should act, as Bloomberg reported last month. The other thing I have to say is that the way that these executives have been answering our questions is suspiciously similar, and they don't totally close the door to the possibility.

1:22Jasmine Enberg: Here's Kim Larson, Global Head of Creators at YouTube, whose voice you also heard at the top of the episode. Would you ever consider providing funding for content again? I will never say never. I don't think it's top of mind right now. The model has worked well for us. The rev share is really what differentiates us. And the fact that you can still own your IP here on YouTube, I think we are very, very keen to make sure that core stays intact. And here is Steve McClendon, YouTube's head of product for podcasts, when I asked him whether YouTube would entertain exclusive deals, there was the battle between YouTube and Twitch for exclusive streamers.

2:01Do you expect this to play out with podcasting again? I mean, do you think YouTube could entertain doing some sort of exclusive podcast deals as Netflix is doing this? It's really not something that we're thinking about. I guess I would never say never because the world always changes on us. But I think we're much more focused on the creators being able to build sustainable businesses, to own their IP, and to sort of leverage all of the things that YouTube has to offer? So very similar language there. And the reason that we're asking the question is because YouTube has gone down this road before, and not just with originals.

2:37From about 2020 to 2021, YouTube was fiercely competing with streamers, with Twitch and other live streaming services, and they were all battling to sign top names exclusively. And And during that time, YouTube did land several major streamers, including Ludwig and Dr. Lupo, pulling them away from Twitch.

2:54Jasmine Enberg: Still, for now, YouTube is not funding any content that we know of, and it has found several creative ways to get more premium content onto its platform without having to do so. So last month, it announced a deal with NBCUniversal that will include Peacock in a new subscription bundle for YouTube Premium. As part of the deal, NBC Sports will also be a production partner for certain live sporting events on YouTube. This is a clear play for subscription dollars, which are still a much smaller part of YouTube's business than ads, though subscription dollars are growing at a faster clip, according to YouTube's second quarter earnings report.

3:29Jasmine Enberg: As an aside, we want to know what this means for Olympics coverage in the summer 2028 games as NBC has exclusive broadcast rights. Anyway, that follows the launch of a slate of exclusive shows from creators including Jesser, Alex Cooper, Kareem Rama, Dude Perfect, and Julian Shapiro Barnum in May. Like we said at the time, YouTube is not funding these shows like they did originals, but the end result of promoting these shows as exclusive shows to YouTube is the same. They give YouTube a series of pre-planned, premium, creator-led content that they can pitch to big advertisers the way that big TV advertisers are used to buying ads.

4:06Jasmine Enberg: Here's YouTube's Kim Larson on that. This is the most sellable slate we've put out at the upfronts ever, because this is how TV buyers know how to buy. And that predisposes itself certainly to long form, to the living room. But then you wrap around it all of the other formats that we have, whether it be shorts or podcasts. That's what we are focused on is making sure that all works in support of each other. So we go deeper into all of this, as well as what it actually takes to build a business on YouTube in our full interview with Kim at the end of the episode. Our conversation with her was recorded at Cam Lyons earlier this summer as part of a live podcast on stage, which also featured sports creator Kayla Nicole, who has about a million followers on Instagram.

4:48Before that, she was an in-game host for the Lakers and worked at TMZ, among other roles. And she gives her advice for making it as a creator, which, as you heard a little bit in the top of the episode, is not easy. Make sure you stick around for both of those interviews. But continuing on with the YouTube-Netflix rivalry, Netflix also has had to shift its own creator strategy recently. Many of the deals that it made with creators in the early part of the year were exclusive for podcasts, meaning that these creators couldn't publish their long-form episodes on YouTube. We asked Kim about how she felt about that from the YouTube perspective.

5:21Here's what she said. It's very validating. What a vote of confidence in our creators and the fandom that they've built and the community, the user base they bring with them. We are very, you know, conscious, I think, and wary of creators splitting their audience.

5:39Jasmine Enberg: OK, it's a very good spin, but that doesn't mean that Kim is entirely wrong either. I mean, after so many years of being dismissed by traditional media executives for being less than, it is a huge stamp of approval to have one of the largest streamers in the world going after YouTube's biggest stars. At the same time, though, it is totally understandable that YouTube would be sweating behind closed doors. Their pool of talent just isn't endless, regardless of what they might want you to believe. I mean, only 0.02 % of social video content is fit for TV, according to recent data from Spotter. And I think that's actually being a little bit generous, considering their definition didn't include things like content quality.

6:24Jasmine Enberg: And it's very, very hard for a creator to turn down a Netflix deal, both because of the prestige, but also the paycheck. I mean, we're seeing creators campaign for Emmys and having their content show up on Netflix alongside highly produced shows or Oscar winning movies is just really important to them optically. And we talk about this all the time on this podcast. Yeah. And regardless of whether it's a big paycheck or a medium one or a smaller one, the legitimacy and the stamp of recognition from Hollywood or a streamer like Netflix, it still really matters. But anyway, the good news for YouTube is that Netflix doesn't have an endless budget to sign YouTubers exclusively.

7:00And that's what made the Jay Shetty deal, which is reportedly worth$100 million over several years, so interesting. It's so rare to see a creator strike a deal with two different tech platforms, let alone one with that massive of a price tag. And his videos now are both on Netflix and Spotify, and Spotify is handling the ad sales part of the deal. But it's also likely why Netflix's recent deals have looked a little bit different. So take Hot Ones. If you do not know that show, creator Sean Evans asks celebrities questions while they eat spicy chicken wings. My personal nightmare. Like I like a little bit of spice, but not like I don't know.

7:36Jasmine Enberg: I don't even want to know how spicy like the what is it 10 levels? The top 10 or the highest one? Like no way. No, we've talked about this. But like when I cry, like it takes me a long time to recover. So I would be like beet red. But I do like watching the celebrities on it. It's very fun. Oh, it's super fun. Yeah, a great content. But Bloomberg recently reported that Netflix was in talks with Hot One's owner, First We Feast, to publish new episodes of the show at the same time on Netflix and on YouTube. And Netflix would also take old episodes of the show as well and make those available. But the catch, Bloomberg said that Netflix wants YouTubers to strip brand integrations from the shows before they appear on Netflix so that it can grow its own ad business.

8:15So for context, Netflix has been investing and expanding its ad business over the past few years. It reported about$1.5 billion in ad revenue in 2025. But that is about one-tenth of what YouTube generated in just the second quarter of 2026,

8:30Jasmine Enberg: at roughly$11 million. So about that Bloomberg article, because it framed stripping brand integrations as a big sticking point for these creators that Netflix has reportedly been talking to, I don't think that's the right way to be looking at it. Because these shows weren't originally on Netflix when these deals were signed. it isn't totally unreasonable for creators to then put ad-free versions on Netflix, as long as there isn't anything in their contract that would prohibit them from doing that. Yes, sure, some of these sponsors might not be happy about it at first, but they paid, probably, to be associated with the show on YouTube, and they're still getting that.

9:07Jasmine Enberg: Plus, we also just have no idea how many people are watching podcasts or some of the new creator shows on Netflix because Netflix hasn't shared a lot of information on it. Instead, most of the podcasts are lumped into the other shows category in Netflix's engagement report, which Netflix also just changed the frequency with which they release it. They said that they would go from twice annually to once annually. And releasing data less frequently is not a good sign for user engagement on the platform or broadly. Investors also agreed with that. Netflix's stock fell after its earnings report, despite solid, though not stellar, revenue growth.

9:46Yeah, there's still a lot that we don't know. The only creator shows they really talk about, especially in that report, are Mark Rober and Miss Rachel, which are doing really well. Miss Rachel was Netflix's most watched kids title with 69 million views across two seasons, according to that report you mentioned that they released in July. And Miss Rachel was also in the top 10 most watched shows overall by views during that same period. She was number nine, and that list included hit shows like Stranger Things and Bridgerton. So she is in really stellar company there. And then Mark Rober's Crunch Labs nabbed 36 million views across four seasons.

10:20So clearly these creators are bringing in views for Netflix, which is why Netflix is doing more of these deals. But it's worth noting that both of these deals date back to 2025 and they're not podcasts. And importantly, they're also kids shows. Kids content, especially from YouTubers, has historically performed well on streaming services. Coco Mellon, anyone. But some of its other most recent creator additions to Netflix that also got shout outs were Salish and Jordan Matter and Danny Goh. They were also held out in the report. They brought in 29 million and 26 million viewers respectively. But again, they're both in the kids and family genre also.

10:54Jasmine Enberg: Yeah, I mean, kids content does well everywhere, including on YouTube. I remember doing some research on this. I think it was last year when we first started hearing the mantra that YouTube is the new TV and the top channels on YouTube were also primarily kids content. But going back to the hot ones deal for a minute. I actually think that this setup could be an opportunity for these creators to renegotiate some of their brand integrations or make new ones and potentially, you know, with Netflix's help here. And I think that would be really attractive. I mean, again, Netflix's ad business may be a tiny sliver of YouTube's, but they have the big TV brand advertisers that YouTube so desperately wants.

11:34Jasmine Enberg: Or these creators could also ask for more money from Netflix directly for the deal. So for me, the only really big sticking point that I can see for most creators is if they cannot post their shows on YouTube anymore. But even that hasn't been a deal breaker for everyone. I mean, if Netflix can offer them enough to make up for losing some of their ad revenue from YouTube, like in the Jay Shetty deal, probably. But to your point, Kaya, like Netflix can't keep up these types of deals endlessly. Yeah. And I think for Netflix, the shift in strategy from exclusivity is also just the company realizing that it needs to be more flexible.

12:08I mean, most creators are not going to want to give up their shows on YouTube. And that's not just for revenue. That's because they might fall out of the algorithm. Like that can hurt future growth, right? Like there's all these other considerations that aren't just, you know, AdSense month to month. And I did some reporting on this back in May 2025. And Netflix was already pushing for exclusivity back then. This was really just the start of them wanting to work more with creators. And some creators at the time didn't want to enter into agreements that would hurt income or their momentum on YouTube.

12:37So I was honestly really surprised to see earlier this year that so many of these major podcasters from Jay Shetty to Jake Shane to Bill Simmons, you know, they were all willing to give up posting their long form episodes on YouTube.

12:48Jasmine Enberg: I think the key difference here is that they're podcasters, because I do think that there is a big difference between these podcast hosts and the bread and butter YouTubers. Like when we were writing about this for our newsletter recently, we came across this really jarring stat that 70 % of Americans who watch podcasts on YouTube said they would switch from YouTube if a podcast were to become only available on another platform. That's coming from Cumulus Media and Signal Hill Insights from October. And I think this could definitely help to explain why these hosts are more willing to experiment than longtime YouTubers.

13:20Jasmine Enberg: People just don't seem to have the same kind of loyalty to YouTube for podcasts as they do for other creator content. And I know that YouTube always throws out that stat that over a billion people are watching podcasts on their platform, but we're a little skeptical of that for a couple of reasons. I mean, one, how are they defining watch and how are they defining a podcast? How are they measuring this? I mean, as a channel on YouTube, we know that you can literally just check a box that says podcast. And that doesn't necessarily mean that it actually is a podcast that you know, you've uploaded.

13:53And I asked Steve about this earlier this year. So go look at that episode to see his answer. But 100 % on the longtime YouTubers. I mean, I still think the list of people who make suitable content and are willing to take those deals is running low. And that would also explain why this latest wave of deals that Netflix has announced looks different from the exclusive podcasting deals we saw earlier this year. So similar to what's being negotiated for Hot Ones, creators will post episodes on Netflix and YouTube the same day. So that includes Rhett and Link's Good Mythical Morning and other shows.

14:22And also Nick DiGiovanni, who's a food creator, who is also bringing his entire library of videos to Netflix later this year. And similarly to Rhett and Link, his new episodes are going to be available on the same day that they go live on YouTube. And these agreements like really mirror older deals with top YouTubers like Mark Rober and Miss Rachel, which essentially are just licensing agreements for their existing content.

14:42Jasmine Enberg: Yeah. And earlier this summer, we actually talked to Netflix CMO Marion Lee, and we asked her about the deal spree and how important it is for Netflix to have exclusivity. Here's what she told us. These creators are so involved in their brands as their business and they are their brand, right? Like you guys like are your brand. And so you tend to think about things very holistically and think about where your audiences are. And for us, you know, I think we're trying different models and like what might work. And I think we are a company that likes to try new things. And then we try to make things work out.

15:18And then we're also very fast to pivot if we find that like maybe that type of model doesn't work.

15:24Jasmine Enberg: Okay, so she kind of dodged the second part of the question, though, to be fair, she isn't directly involved in brokering these deals. And I think we kind of also all know the answer to that already, which is that Netflix wants exclusivity so that it can fight YouTube. In May, YouTube actually strengthened its lead in the TV market, accounting for 13.8 % of all watch time in the U.S., according to data from Nielsen Gage, and Netflix has hovered around 8 % all year. One other thing that Marian Lee told us that we found so interesting is how for its own shows, Netflix has also thought really holistically about things like merchandise, live events, and other kind of IP opportunities.

15:58And she sees a lot of similarities, actually, between creators and shows like Shonda Rhimes' Bridgerton. Shonda Rhimes and her team, they do actually think about the universes are creating for the long-term and the longevity. So they don't just think about the next season of Bridgerton. They think out very long. And so we're doing that with them. This next season is being shot in Scotland. And so I was talking to them yesterday and we were like, okay, so what do we do with plaids? What do we do with tartans? And that's exactly how Salish and her dad are thinking. They think of Salish as, you know, not just her, but like, what is she interested in now?

16:41But what is the durability of her as a 16 year old? And what is that going to look like when she turns 20? Just as a side note, do you remember Netflix's collaboration with Meghan Markle, which included jams? People were losing their mind. But I think the tricky thing here, though, is that creators likely will want to retain ownership over their IP, and they may not want to allow Netflix to take too much of a cut if they start, you know, collaborating on merchandise and other things.

17:10Jasmine Enberg: Yes, I would like to forget Meghan Markle's jams, but I cannot, unfortunately. But anyway, yes, I mean, I think the other interesting thing about this, though, is that you automatically assume that marketing for a creator show on Netflix is going to be very, very different from marketing a premium show or movie on the platform. But I think, you know, to what Marion was saying, as we're seeing more media companies and creators take cues from each other, these two worlds are merging. And we talk about this all the time, but there's a lot that each can learn from each other. And I think this is such a good example of that.

17:41Jasmine Enberg: Definitely. Okay, let's talk a little bit about YouTube's new deal with Peacock, because on the surface, it might not seem like it has much to do with Netflix, but it does. I mean, I feel like YouTube and Netflix just live rent free in each other's heads at this point. But we talked a little bit about this at the top. But basically, it's another way for YouTube to get more premium content onto its platform and potentially boost its subscriptions, which is Netflix's core business model. So you mentioned that$1.5 billion stat, the money that it made from ads in 2025. That's actually just 3 % of its total revenue that year.

18:13Jasmine Enberg: The rest is coming from subscriptions. YouTube doesn't release subscription revenue figures separately, but we know that it makes more from ads than it does from subscriptions. Okay, of course, masses of people are not going to all of a sudden sign up for YouTube premium just because it now includes Peacock. But this deal actually paves the way for YouTube to strike more deals like this and gives it another really good talking point as to why it is the new TV. I mean, we go around and around. We're just trying to recreate cable now. So yes, I mean, the more streamers YouTube has under its belt, like, that's much more of a compelling reason for viewers to subscribe.

18:49If you can then get Peacock and, you know, XYZ streaming services, sure, just for Peacock, we'll see.

18:56Jasmine Enberg: And I think the most interesting part of the Peacock deal actually is the sports component of it all. So we know that YouTube has been leaning really heavily into live events, including nabbing rights for the Oscars starting in 2029, as well as live sporting events. And like we said earlier, NBCUniversal has exclusive broadcast rights to the Olympics in the U.S. in 2028. And the reason that YouTube is going after live sports is because it's basically the lost bastion of broadcast TV. and going back to that Nielsen data, actually, the only time YouTube hasn't been number one in TV watch time this year was in February, which corresponds with the Winter Olympics.

19:33Jasmine Enberg: And that was when NBCUniversal and Versant, which aired the Olympics, actually took the top spot. Of course, NBC has also been leaning really heavily into creators for the Olympics and for their coverage there. So obviously there's natural alignment that way too. And if you're interested in going deeper on that, you can check out our conversation with Gio Carapetian, the SVP of Olympics at NBCUniversal. He told us how it all went down at the Winter Olympics this year and what we can expect from the Summer Olympics in 2028. Such a good point. You always find little gems of data that no one's paying attention to.

20:06But it's not just YouTube going after live sports. I mean, Netflix is also and that includes sports podcasts, too. I mean, one of Netflix's first exclusive deals was with Spotify's The Ringer Network, which is primarily focused on sports. And Netflix's first real success in the podcast world has been a sports podcast. The rest is football. It broke into the daily top 10 chart in the UK, and its top-rated podcast sat 40th on Netflix's most watched in the UK of the past seven days. And it was viewed by around 170 ,000 people. So that was placing it just behind the BBC's Football Daily podcast, according to Deadline.

20:40And then, of course, the podcast got a big boost from the World Cup, but it's still a good sign for sports on Netflix.

20:45Jasmine Enberg: Totally. Okay, before we move on to our conversation with Kim and Kayla from Cannes, I love the alliteration there. We wanted to zoom out a little bit because while the focus is always on YouTube and Netflix, the battle is actually much bigger than that. For one, I mean, there are plenty of other streaming platforms that have inked deals with creators, whether that's Amazon Prime Video, Hulu, even NBCUniversal itself. And while very, very different, Disney also just entered a landmark deal with TikTok to bring creator content onto its short video platform, Verts. And then, of course, you have some creators and podcasters who are choosing a very different path altogether to get onto TV screens.

21:24Jasmine Enberg: They're launching their own fast channels. And for those of you who don't know the term, fast stands for free ad-supported TV. And usually these channels are dedicated to a single creator and they host their content there with ads. Yeah, and some creators have been dabbling with this in the past few years, but it feels like we're getting more momentum now. Oh, and the benefit about going this route is that creators get to be everywhere and they're not tethered to a single platform through an exclusive deal. At the end of July, Meat Eater launched another fast channel, this time dedicated to its podcast on Prime Video.

21:54And in May, Scott Galloway launched the Prof G Media channel on Roku, Prime Video, and others. Meat Eater is an especially interesting example because it actually had its own Netflix show back in 2012 is when it premiered. And it's since expanded into so many other directions. It's no longer I mean, the Netflix show is still available, but they're no longer creating new episodes. And it's really focused on YouTube podcasts and now becoming more widely available through fast channels. And as Scott Galloway put it, quote, the most undervalued real estate and media right now is free. And Disney seems to agree.

22:26It's also considering a free product for consumers, which it believes can help it reach, quote, more price sensitive consumers, a.k.a. people who don't want to pay, while also giving the company a new place to sell ads and just grow its overall ad revenue. Plus, Disney thinks and hopes that it may lead people to eventually subscribe to Disney Plus as well.

22:45Jasmine Enberg: And the money in fast channels isn't bad either. I mean, fast channel owners get anywhere between 35 to 60 percent of ad revenue, depending on the source. And that's very comparable and competitive to YouTube's AdSense and even potentially more in some instances. And fast channel revenues are also growing very fast. One estimate places it above$10 billion in the U.S. in 2027. Yeah, and it's not like creators are only thinking, you know, YouTube versus Netflix. They're thinking, like Mary and Lee said, holistically about their businesses. They want to be in other places, from live events to streaming.

23:19So fast channels could just be a good, happy medium. Now we're going to take you back to Cam Lyons, where we hosted a special live recording of Scalable as part of the Creators and Culture Villa. So thank you, Convergence, for inviting us. We gave the live audience our State of the Union on the Creator Economy and also interviewed Kim Larson and Kayla Nicole, who you'll hear from next. We're really excited to welcome Kim Larson to the stage. She's the global head of creators at YouTube. And welcome to the Scalable Podcast. Hi, everyone. Thank you guys so much. Thanks for being here.

23:48Jasmine Enberg: Thank you for having me on the pod. Thanks for being here. So Mr. Beast, Mark Rober, Michelle Carey, they're some of the biggest names on YouTube that we consistently hear about. What are some of the common threads that make them successful on the platform? Interestingly enough, all of those have taken what they've built on YouTube and they've used this flywheel around the community and the audience to translate that into off platform businesses. What the common thread is, they all have an angle. It's unique. There's a lot of Me Too content and that's not what they do. Like they really figured out what was their voice?

24:24How are they going to be different? And they came up with a hook and they've stuck with that hook. Maybe it's evolved, but like they keep, keep like going at it and going at it. And it's that consistency with their audience that is relatable, repeatable. And it builds confidence and trust. So I think that's the first thing in terms of the common thread. The second thing is the arc that they've all been on. All of them now have very professional enterprises. They don't try to do it just themselves. And it's not just about management agencies and talent agencies. It's really surrounding yourself with a professional C-suite.

25:04And so they've all invested in identifying who that trusted group is going to be and bringing them on and built very, very successful creator-led companies.

25:17Jasmine Enberg: What can smaller creators learn from them? Like if somebody is just starting out on YouTube and looking to the Mr. Beast and the Mark Robbers and Michelle Carres of the world, what would you say is maybe the number one or two things that are most important to take away from what they've done? Because obviously small creators don't have the ability to build a team the way that these big creators do. There are different inflection points. If you track the growth of creators over time, the first inflection point is getting an editor and the unlock that that does. And the sort of multiplicative factor it has around how much content you can actually build and produce.

25:50From there, your next hire will probably be some sort of business manager. um and so as you look at each of those steps along the way maximize like take it all in um you're not going to make you're not going to go from zero to 60 how many years has jimmy been doing this you know 13 at least so to come into it and expect that you're going to be a viral sensation overnight is not setting the right expectation to say out loud because i think it's

26:19Jasmine Enberg: still a common misconception that you know every single creator is an overnight sensation that They've just gone viral. No, no, no, no. No, look at any of those. Mark, Michelle, like any of Dar. I mean, they have been at this for so long. They've honed her craft. They've also test and learned. They're students of the business. They know their analytics better than anyone. Bryson DeChambeau was on our beach earlier today. Y 'all would not believe what a student of the business he is. He knows everything. Average video duration, retention, audience statistics. You can't be a YouTuber if you don't lean in and really understand the very inner workings of your business.

26:58Another common thread, especially with Mark and Michelle, is that they have really optimized their content for TV screens. How important is that? Not every creator can do that, right? No. I mean, while COVID was really, really hard for so many things, we benefited from the upgrade to 4K. like so many households upgraded to 4k and got back to that sitting together in a living room actually watching content together that practice is like it's back for them i mean their content's always been more long form it's very very suited to it um though you would be surprised at the amount of short-form content that is watched in the living room that's always it's one of these to head scratchers that you're like really really but I know kids do families do it to believe that adults do well what I've heard what I've heard from many families is like they actually want to see what their kids are watching and so doing on the living room is like the best place to do it what are some of the kind of traps that creators fall into you mentioned me too I assume that means kind of copying or trying to do what others are doing.

28:09But what do you think are some of the big mistakes that people make early on? You have to invest in your core. And that is, it's an, it's an investment. And you have to keep maintaining that core and coming back to your core, nurturing that core. Because once that core gets really stable, that's when it allows you to go off and build across other things. I think people may try to try to leave too soon before that core is really solidified. I think there's also a, like all of us, there's a desire, like maybe I should launch a podcast and I'm going to do 15 shorts this month. And by the way, I'm still doing a long form, you know, a week.

28:51And I say quality over quantity every single time. You are not going to out video yourself into into fandom. It's it's about depth, not necessarily breadth, particularly when you're starting out because you need you need loyalists. You need people to come back to your channel, whatever, at Tuesday at noon when you are when you're uploading.

29:15Jasmine Enberg: So a lot of what we're hearing now is that many of these big creators are building digital media studios on YouTube. And Neil Mohan, he talks about this a lot and how YouTube is supporting them as they're doing so. So can you tell us a little bit more, like what is YouTube actually doing to support these creators as they're building out their studios? So at the very top end of the studio. So we do a couple of things. I mean, we have talked before about our partner management support. I think it's one of the things that sets us apart. We are very, very thoughtful about how we give support, not just at the top, but sort of all the way through.

29:51We get the partner manager and who doesn't. Obviously, there's so many more creators that you have. I wish we could do it for everyone. It's rarefied air, but it's really we try to meet where creators where they are. So even if you're just starting out, there will be a Discord group or a WhatsApp group, scaled education, community meetups. Like there's a lot even there just starting up.

30:12Jasmine Enberg: Who's in those Discord and WhatsApp groups? Mainly, primarily shorts creators who are considering becoming a content creator full-time. I think they're at that pre-point where they haven't decided if this is their life's work. They're trying it and trying it. And that's sort of where they are. At the top, when you get, we try to understand a creator's ambition. And so for some creators, it really is launching a studio. For some creators, it's an Emmy bid. For some creators, it's more and more and more brand deals or long-term creator partnerships. And each one of those offers different things to a creator.

30:51Some of it, it's publicity. Some of it is dollars in their pocket. Some of it is more sort of operational excellence and sustainability. So we spend so much time trying to understand what do they want, what's going to get them to the next level, and then supporting them in that lane. Would you ever consider providing funding for content again? I will never say never. I don't think it's top of mind right now. The model has worked well for us. The rev share is really what differentiates us. And the fact that you can still own your IP here on YouTube, I think we are very, very keen to make sure that core stays intact.

31:32Jasmine Enberg: But do you think that rev share is going to be enough when you're seeing, you know, some creators like Jay Shetty's deal was worth, what,$100 million over a couple of years? I mean, he can't post on YouTube anymore. Are you worried about that? So my whole job is to make sure creators keep YouTube their home base. And that doesn't preclude them from going out and doing other deals. I think the Jay deal is different. Very different. Very different to have two parties coming in 50-50 on that split. That's not the only example. I mean, Netflix has been on a deal signing spree with a lot of YouTubers.

32:07Yeah. And I tell you, it's very validating. What a vote of confidence in our creators and the fandom that they've built and the community, the user base they bring with them. We are very conscious, I think, and wary of creators splitting their audience. And so making sure that they understand, you know, that discovery flywheel is really, really important. And as I talk to all the creators who've done these big deals, they have all committed that they understand the core has to stay intact because it doesn't without that sort of the rest of it doesn't work. The industry has gone down this path before.

32:48We had Dan Clancy, the CEO of Twitch at our Scalable Summit earlier this year. And I asked him about that because Twitch and YouTube were very competitive for streamers. This was what, like 2019, 2018 time? And I think what he said is that he thought it hurt streaming overall. And what happened, you know, there was Microsoft's mixer, walk down memory lane for a second, with Ninja and these crazy deals. My sense from that conversation was that Twitch sort of learned its lesson that they didn't feel like the exclusive of deals worked. But what he said is Netflix is creating a new habit on Netflix to come watch podcasts.

33:19So but it's interesting to not see YouTube respond with deals. Well, I wouldn't I wouldn't say that, Kaya. I'd say we have to focus on what we're really good at. And if you looked at what Brandcast was, the there's a big change in the industry now, Like the unit of measure is no longer a video. It's a show. It's a repeatable format. It's episodic content. It's highly premium in nature. This is the most sellable slate we've put out at the upfronts ever because this is how TV buyers know how to buy. and that predisposes itself certainly to long form, to the living room, but then you wrap around it, all of the other formats that we have, whether it be shorts or podcasts, that's what we are focused on is making sure that all works in support of each other.

34:14Jasmine Enberg: Well, let's talk a little bit about Brandcast since you brought it up. I mean, you launched so many exclusive shows with creators and the whole end goal of this, right, is to be able to sell those to TV advertisers. How's that going? It's going very, very, very well. I mean, those, as I said, like they're incredibly sellable. One of the things we've been working on in the background, you know, you see the splashy show. What you don't see is the pipes we've built behind the scenes. So we have an intake mechanism where we take in monthly, you know, at least what are up and coming shows? What are those ideas?

34:50How do we profile them in front of an advertiser? When are they going to be ready? When are they going to hit? How far ahead can we sell them? And so there's now a machine that has enabled that that brand cast experience to happen.

35:03Jasmine Enberg: Can you tell us a little bit more about how some of those deals are structured or some of those shows are structured? I mean, we know that, you know, they're getting the rev share right. They're getting promotion. What else can you tell us and how are you picking and choosing these shows? I think what is so important to keep in mind is that we don't pick the market picks. So there are a lot of shows in our pipeline that or there are some shows in our pipeline that are more sellable than others. And so we bring those out to advertisers and we let them decide. So it's really not us. And the shows we put on stage are a reflection of what advertisers are buying.

35:46So YouTube has also nabbed Oscars rights. And you've been you mentioned the Emmys. you've been helping creators campaign for Emmys. It's so interesting because we talked to so many creators and they want that recognition, even though they have massive audiences, they don't have gatekeepers. They can do this all on their own. Like, why do these awards? Why do the Oscars still matter? Why does winning an Emmy still matter? You guys are so uber plugged into the to the creators. It actually doesn't for some. For some, it's very important. For others, they could not care. I think it's the philosophical.

36:15It's recognition, like you said. It's not the statue, but it's being considered in those circles. And so, you know, whether they win or lose, I think the imprint we've made on Hollywood and the invitations they've gotten and sort of the warm hug we're getting from a lot of studios is so validating for them that it's fueling them in a very, very positive way.

36:39Jasmine Enberg: What about for YouTube, though? I mean, why did you want Oscars rights? So I didn't do the deal. I cannot speak to the deal. The rights come in in in twenty nine. I can say we're very focused on cultural moments, particularly live moments. And it's such an attractive property. Going back to brands for a bit, because we often hear creators say that brands need to let them have more creative control. Beyond that, though, what are some of the big mistakes that you see brands making when they're working with creators? The biggest mistake I see is when a brand tells a creator how to do something, not what to do.

37:15They just need to put out what is it you're trying to accomplish and then literally walk away. The second they get into how and I need 30 seconds of this read and I need the logo 15 times like then it completely falls apart. The most fruitful relationships we have seen have have been the ones where the brands provide the brief and then the creator comes back with three ideas and the brand goes, wow, I'll take two or three of those.

37:43Jasmine Enberg: Do you find that brands know what they want from creator partnerships? Because one of the things that, you know, over the years of studying this industry, I've noticed is a lot of brands, they just want to work with a creator and they don't necessarily know what the end goal is. And I think that is what leads to a lot of the issues that we see because they can't communicate that to creators. And how can creators perform if they don't know what the brand is trying to accomplish? We had corporate Natalie, if you follow her, very funny. We had her on the podcast. We did Jasmine's game, red flag, green flag with brands.

38:10And she's like, red flag is when they give me five calls to action. Like, this is a 30 second video. I don't even have time to barely say the brand name, let alone why are you giving me five different things? You have one goal. And I think a lot of brands struggle with that. I think, Jasmine, creators are getting so much better about pushing that brief back. I have talked to so many creators who said I actually passed on that brand deal because they didn't know what they wanted. or it was unclear to me how I was going to be successful in helping them. And that's the kind of pushback that we need.

38:44I think no creator, nobody wants to do bad work. Like everybody and they want a paycheck sometimes. They need a paycheck, but they also need that brand to come back. Like the days of doing one-off brand deals, it's exhausting. Nobody wants to do that. You want to do a good job and you want that brand to come back. And so to do that, you've got to hit their KPIs. And if those KPIs aren't clear, then, you know, the creator is like, gosh, and they have two or three other brands over there that they're talking to. So it's we're not in this time anymore where I think they're all, you know, desperate and must take this.

39:20They can have the power to be way, way, way more choiceful.

39:23Jasmine Enberg: What's an example of a brand who's doing it right, who's working well or in a really innovative way with creators on YouTube? You saw the coach example with Haley Pham and coach really resurrecting an incredibly important luxury brand that had frankly lost its relevance. Another one that is not public, but I'll talk about it because I think she'd appreciate it, is McDonald's. So if you look at the FIFA activations for McDonald's, they have hired somewhere between six and eight creators. One brief and the interpretations you have seen across all of those briefs have just been amazing. And they have enabled McDonald's to get local and to get very, very targeted with authentic messages that work in a culture and don't try to be everything to everything.

40:14When brands start realizing that a creator is not going to deliver X, Y, Z percent increase in audience, it's a portfolio. And being able to put that portfolio of creators together is kind of the magic of it, of like, how many do you need? What culture aspects, what industry verticals? And that's the testing and learning I think we're seeing this year. Rubrik is the security and AI operations company built for what happens after an attack hits, not just the moments before. AI has turned the threat landscape into quicksand, moving too fast for any human to fully predict. That's why an agentic cyber resilience platform matters.

40:57Automated recovery, clean data, a business that keeps moving no matter what hits. One platform, not a patchwork of stitched together tools and gaps. Don't wait for the next attack. Secure and accelerate your business at Rubric.com. Again, Rubric.com. All right, let's end on sports. So it's been a huge year for sports. You just mentioned the World Cup, but YouTube has obviously played a big role in all these sporting events, you know, from working with creators to even broadcasting games. So how do you see kind of the world of sports and creators continuing to intersect on YouTube? Well, I can't, I'm not going to break any news here, but I will tell you, my inbox is so full of athletes from really the university level on up who are really, really keen to, you know, build a presence on YouTube.

41:51And I think what's different now is that doesn't mean you have to come and build a channel in the off season. like that's hard that's really hard Bryson DeChambeau is one of the few who can actually build content 12 months a year in season while he's golfing like it's a it's a bit of a miracle when an athlete comes to us first thing I say is you know get all your short form on here anything you're putting on any other platform bring it on second thing is let's get you collabing with youtubers let's get you really figuring out what it means to be part of this community and how to work in an unscripted environment.

42:28That's second. And then the third is, how do we get them on the right podcasts? Everybody's trying to go on podcasts galore. And it's like, what are the right podcasts that's going to tell a different side of your story and maybe open up a side of you as an athlete that you haven't uncovered? So that's how we look at it. Thank you so much, Katie. I appreciate you joining us. Thank you guys. What a lovely podcast. And you guys, congrats on all your success. Thank you. Okay. Kayla, come on up. We're excited to talk to you. Hey, girls. Hello. Thanks for being here. Hey, y 'all. Do you have heat stroke yet or are you okay?

43:05I'm sweating profusely under the skirt.

43:07Jasmine Enberg: You cannot tell. Perfect. I was worried about the pit stains. Not at all. It's okay. So give us kind of the quick story of how you started as a creator and when you went full-time. Yeah. So my background is actually in traditional media. I have a journalism degree from Pepperdine University. But that was where I got my start. I worked at places like TMZ. I was the in-game host for the Lakers. And that was my life for a really long time. COVID happened. And I decided that I needed an additional stream of income. I wasn't booking gigs. Things weren't being filmed anymore. And I started just doing traditional Instagram influencing content on a regular basis, partnering with brands as much as I could, and really just building my following over the years.

43:50And like you mentioned, I just hit a million followers the other day. Thank you so much. It's been a long time coming because this is like 2014 when I got my start.

43:59Jasmine Enberg: Was there a turning point for you where you realized that this could become a real business and not just additional income for what you were doing in traditional? Yeah, when I started seeing chicks, we started seeing the numbers on these things. You're like, OK, there's a lot of money in this. I will say, though, outside of the money, like the only reason why I have lasted this long is because of the community that has really stood beside me and supported me and the trust that I have with my followers because I could be accepting a deal a day. But if it's not authentic to my brand or aligned with my brand, I think that that would really deter me.

44:34So really staying true to who I've been and building that community has been life-changing.

44:38Jasmine Enberg: So we talked about this a little bit already, but so many people think being a creator is easy. I mean, you just turn on the camera, you post a video and boom, you're famous. You have a million followers on Instagram. Yeah. The three of us know that that is not true. What does it actually take to build a successful business in the creator economy? I think the first thing is you have to remove the shame. Like we're so afraid to be cringe in today's day and age. It's awkward, especially I think back when I was posting pictures of myself all the time. So awkward. And having to ask your girlfriend all the time, like, clean off your camera.

45:07Can you take a pic of me? Like that was the number one go to line for me. But I say this all the time that having a viral moment can change your month, but cultivating a real community can change your life. Like there's so much more longevity and in community and creating this trust with the people that follow and support you. Not so much focus on like posting constantly nonstop. I think this is like a trend on TikTok right now, too. It's like post a million videos a day and then they're all terrible videos. It's like, what's the point of that? So being selective, knowing your audience and like staying authentic to you too.

45:42So tell us a little bit about your business. Are you mostly earning money from brand partnerships or their other revenue streams? Definitely brand partnerships is my bread and butter for sure. Do you want to diversify or are you like the brand money is good? No, I would love to diversify all day long. I think anything that builds into the ecosystem of Kayla Nicole is something that I'm trying to do. I have my own podcast, The Pregame, which is another stream of income. Now you start monetizing with your podcast, it gets really exciting. So I'm a year in. We're monetizing these days. I'm trying to do more long form content on YouTube.

46:12And then TikTok is kind of just like my spam account. I don't make too much money over there, but it's fun.

46:18Jasmine Enberg: How big is your team? When you said that note, I was like, okay, I had 750 employees. I had a team of two. I have my manager, I have my glam, I have an editor. Okay, producer. Your glam looks great. I need the number. Thanks. I did this myself, guys. you're not melting thank you we need some tips for me after this yeah less than five though i don't have a huge team are they full-time part-time one two three some are full time for sure like when it comes to the podcast well i'm also with dear media so like that staff is technically in-house with them but it is my producer i have a manager and a glam team what do you think are some of the most important roles that a creator needs to succeed and with their business it sounds like you don't need a lot of people so the business of being a creator is something that is like not talked about enough.

47:06And I think that ownership is something that is really overlooked specifically in the black community. So when I had the idea of, oh, I want to start my own wellness branch, type therapy, nobody really tells you how to do that. Right. So like having a business manager, having someone who's like doing the taxes and filing your LLCs, like the legal side of things, I think is super, super important for creators to hone in on because it's not just like wake up and make a business. You know what I mean? There's like steps that you really have to take, like on a legal standpoint, you have to take those things seriously.

47:35So I think that that's something that's really important to have. And then also to delegating. I think that she made the point earlier, I don't like to edit. So I'm going to edit. I'm going to hire an editor. You know, I'm not the best at juggling all of the things. So having an assistant is someone who will help me to kind of like fine tune things. I think sometimes we get in our head and think that, oh, it's a one woman show and we can do this all ourselves. But delegating is really, really important, too. So it's been such a huge year for sports. You've done courtside reporting, you've done on-air hosting, you know, tell us about that and what makes kind of your work different than what we see traditional kind of sports broadcasters doing.

48:09Yeah, I think the world of sports is so interesting now. And unfortunately for me, it's kind of like the more the athletes get to talking on these mics, the less jobs I'm going to have, because I feel like what we care about as a fan, which I'm fan first, we want to hear it from the athlete's mouth. We want to hear their story from their perspective, which is why, you know, like athlete focused podcasts are so popular right now. The YouTube, she brought up Bryson DeChambeau, his golf channel, like people care about getting the story straight from the guy or the girl. And I'm one of those people too, to be honest.

48:41Does that change your strategy then or what you do or what you focus on with your content? I think the focus is always my own just personality driven content. Like I think that that's what makes my podcast unique. It's an extension of my girl group chat. It's called the pregame. So I kind of like secretly force feed the girls sports because they don't really care too much. But that's like my passion. I love sports so much. So whenever I can kind of like fit it into the show, I get it in there. But it's like a different angle for like the girls.

49:09Jasmine Enberg: I love that. All right. So let's end on one piece of advice. What would you say to people here in the audience who either want to better work with creators or who are thinking of becoming a creator themselves? Don't do it. It is hard. We can ask people for years because I've written a newsletter for five years. Now we write it together. Thank God. But people are like, I want to start a newsletter. I'm like, don't unless you're ready to work really hard. It's so much work. And a lot of what we used to say too, when we were covering the creator space was that being a creator is really, really hard work.

49:39Jasmine Enberg: And now we know firsthand it is a lot harder than we ever could have expected. So it is hard, but it is also like, it has been the biggest blessing. I don't know what else I would be doing if it wasn't this right now in my life. I think my one note would be content is important, but content is just like the vehicle. I think the connection is the real asset in it all. And if you keep that at the center, you will develop a community and a following and they'll follow you from every platform, YouTube, TikTok. What's the next thing people are doing? I don't know. Right. AI. AI. I don't know. If you garner that community, they'll follow you.

50:14Jasmine Enberg: Thank you so much, Kayla. Thank you so much for tuning into Scalable. We'll see you here next Thursday. You