Backing Overlooked Founders with Nell Daly of Revenge Capital

17:52Nell Daly:I think I have, I am the type of person, I'm a Sagittarius, not that I necessarily believe in all of this stuff all the time. But if you read anything about a Sagittarius, I'm like classic Sag. I love adventure. I love talking to people. I'm generally very positive, open. I always use this metaphor. If you said to me right now, Nell, I want to swim from, you know, where you live to England. Would you do it with me? I'd say, come on, let's go to the bar. We'll have a cup of cocktails and let's try. Like, just let's jump in and start doing it. Halfway through, I'd be like, Alex, this might not have been such a good idea.

18:32Nell Daly:But I'm not good at thinking about the end game all the way through. I have a vision. I don't really focus on the pitfalls of what could happen as I'm trying to execute that vision. And so I think that has been a gift in my own life to myself or just the way I came into this world. And again, we could kind of psychoanalyze it to the end of time as I was trained to do. I try not to do that on myself too much because I just believe personality wise, I'm just like shit at forecasting, but maybe I'm not like maybe part of the superpowers that I'm actually, it's actually a great quality if you're shit at forecasting something because you do things that other people wouldn't do because they would sort of block themselves from trying.

19:19Alex Chisnall:I remember being in LA and places like that back in the, back in the, back in the nineties and the noughties and a brand called No Fear. And I just remember like buying everything they had. It is like really resonating. I don't know if it's still around, but I just remember seeing that stuff like everywhere in the malls of America.

19:37Nell Daly:I think my big fear, to be honest with you, is that they say people are born in three ways. They have three major things that they think about. One is how they die. They're very afraid of like how that day is going to happen. Two is what happens after they die. And then there's a third category of people who have this fear that they're not going to get everything that they want to get done in life before they die. That is me. And I wonder if Alex, when we do the festival of entrepreneurs, if we ask people to raise their hands, yeah, yeah. Did a quantitative or quantitative data study on which category you fall into.

20:17Nell Daly:If entrepreneurs are people who I literally, so, so let's reframe this because like, I actually have a sick amount of fear. Like it makes me nauseous thinking about it. My fear is directed to this idea that I'm not going to get it all done. And I've heard the ticking of the clock, like second by second, every waking minute of every day of my life. And I just recently took my daughter to Greece and we get to have these long, beautiful conversations on the beach. And she was saying, mom, I don't have that. Like, what is that like to live with that? And I was like, it kind of sucks.

20:54Alex Chisnall:Yeah. No, you're right. I have that like on a daily basis, not even on like on a weekly or

20:59Nell Daly:No, it's a daily. Yeah. It's like a, and it, and it, it drives you. It drives you like, yeah, it does drive you.

21:07Alex Chisnall:How old is your daughter, by the way?

21:08Nell Daly:She's 16.

21:10Alex Chisnall:I've got a 16 year old daughter and an 18 year old daughter.

21:13Nell Daly:Yeah.

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21:56Alex Chisnall:What would you be doing? Where would Nell be?

21:58Nell Daly:That's a great question. There was a time in my life when I had very small children. I was married to my first husband for 12 years. This is very personal. And I would have followed him to the end of the earth. I remember saying to him one night, as I realized our lives were starting to diverge a little bit. And I wanted him to apply for jobs at universities. And I said to him, I don't even care. I'm not a small town girl. I love New York City. I love going to big cities. I'm very much a New Yorker. I love LA. I love Chicago. I love all the major cities. I love getting to spend time in London and Rome and Paris.

22:36Nell Daly:And I said to him, If you get a job at a small Midwestern college, like in the middle of Ohio, I will follow you and I will be happy. I will make my life fit, whatever we're doing as a family, and I will be very happy because I'm a weird person in the sense that I can also spend like two weeks in a home in Vermont and read books. I have an art degree from, you know, an arts from Columbia in creative writing. So I can sit in an office and read and write all day as well. So I have this weird side to me. And I often think what happens if that had happened? What? Right. And yeah, there was this like pivotal moment and he didn't end up getting one of those jobs.

23:19Nell Daly:And then we ended up getting divorced and my divorce both allowed me and put my back up against the wall to perform. So a lot of people say, how did you do it? I was like, girl, I didn't have a choice. like I moved in with my mother and this was not a sexy story right I moved in with my mom with three little kids and I worked 24 7 for years I was saying to someone yesterday when I tell people I literally didn't I slept with my shoes on just because it was easier like I got to the point where I would because when you are a single mother with three little children and you make dinner and then you go upstairs and you finally wrangle every single one of those kids into bed, you still have to go downstairs and then clean the entire kitchen.

24:06Nell Daly:There's no parallel tasking happening at the same time. People don't realize that. Not only have you bought all the groceries, cooked all the dinner, and I'm not saying, oh, woe is me. I'm just saying I got really good at figuring out how to put my makeup on once every other day, not shine, like wear the same clothes, not take off my shoes and have lots of conversations and just kept, I just had this faith in myself. I also think this is going to sound super weird, Alex, but if we're talking about performance, I, one thing I did do is I stayed very fit. Like I always woke up at, if I had to wake up at five in the morning to go for a run or go to class.

24:47Nell Daly:I stayed fit and I didn't stay fit for aesthetic reasons, much more so because I knew if I was going to be in the fight of life, I had to be in fighting shape. And you have to be in fighting shape because when shit comes at you on a Tuesday afternoon, you never expect it that can take you out. You have to be, you have to have the physical body and the, and the mental health intact to get through that kind of stuff. And during that first divorce, I knew, oh my God, if I'm not fit, I'm going to really go down into a bad place. And I think that's the benefit of being a psychotherapist too, because you get to live vicariously through the beautiful things that your patients do and also the mistakes that they've made.

25:32Nell Daly:And you also have to model for them, right? I can't be a total disaster and be their therapist, even though there were times in my life. My life was certainly not perfect. And I was a great therapist. So I think that really helped in terms of, and I would, while I was running, I believe in this. And this is the beauty of psychotherapy. Psychotherapy, 80 % of what you say to somebody else is what therapy is all about. It's just hearing yourself talk out loud. 20 % is the response that you actually get from the therapist. You also have to realize in life that the way we communicate is very little through words.

26:08Nell Daly:It's much more so about your nonverbal behavior in a room, the energy that you bring in, the way you move your body, all those kinds of things. And, you know, I really believe in the idea of if you start to speak your dreams out loud and you have the courage to say them, even to one person who's not going to say, what are you talking about? That's ridiculous. You're never going to be able to do that. Right. For example, I would love to win an Oscar. I'm going to say it out loud. I would love to spend at some point in my lifetime performing and being an artist again. I would love it. That would give me so much joy and pleasure or working around more and more artists, which I'm gearing up to do every single day.

26:50Nell Daly:I try to make that a mission of mine. and if you say it out loud there's a lot of power in that and they've done studies you know everyone knows the harvard study where if the people who wrote what they wanted to get down done in a journal they were much more likely to execute it and have those dreams come true so on my runs and i don't know this is kind of maybe too woo for some people but i would just say it out loud to the universe and on my runs now i've lost both my parents i speak out loud my dreams to them

27:19Alex Chisnall:Yeah, out loud.

27:21Nell Daly:And I go early in the morning because you look crazy. But I run these streets and there's no traffic yet. And I just talk to my parents and say, like, listen, you're on the other side, dude, can you like move some furniture around up there for me? And make this happen and make that happen and make sure the kids are okay. And there's I just have a very strong belief in once you start to speak it out or write it down, shit starts to move in your life in the right direction. Yeah.

27:47Alex Chisnall:Running's good for a lot of things. I only discovered running back in 2018 and I've just rediscovered it after being injured for post New York marathon. But it's great for ideas that will come to you that you could work. You literally sit down, make some space to think and nothing comes to you yet you go outside into nature and just run and stuff just comes to you, right?

28:09Nell Daly:Yeah. And if I, with like very little childcare working full time, I never had a maternity leave again, like one, I hate to say this, but like when people come to me and say, I don't have the time, I'm like, if I had the time, you have the time. It's awful and it sucks. And it's inconvenient for people. Most of the time, it's just creating boundaries with other people to say like, I know you want to ride here, but I'm going on a run. I'm sorry. I get you. I can get you back in an hour or I need to get to the gym. Like I think staying in good physical shape is really critical to being an entrepreneur.

28:43Alex Chisnall:Agreed. Yeah. Yeah. I'm a huge believer in that. And I, when I first started as an entrepreneur, that was, and I was in sports therapy space and I just kept getting ill myself. And I just thought suddenly you have that realization. Well, if I'm ill, if I can't even help myself, how the hell can I help everyone else? I'm in the, I'm in the business of helping people right. But if I keep, keep taking time off for being sick, so you've got to take better care of yourself. You need to eat better. You need to sleep better. You need to exercise. Like you said, I remember like seeing like 11 clients in one day when I was doing, um, like retrained as a personal trainer and then went to sports therapy.

29:19Alex Chisnall:And I was just like that. Yes, you're chasing the money, chasing the money, but you know, 11 people in one day and I was just like exhausted and then you're ill again and you just like that. Well, then you can't see those 11 clients. So.

29:29Nell Daly:Yeah. It's a hard, You have to be so committed. And I did that. And what you're hearing in an office eight to 10 hours a day as a psychotherapist. When I was pregnant with all three of my kids, I was a therapist. And I would pull my hands or put a pillow in front of my stomach because I was so afraid that the baby was hearing these stories too. And what does that do to their makeup? we maybe we don't know right so uh I get it I get that feeling of burnout the people who do those careers just get so much pleasure from it long term I'm amazed I've some of my greatest friends are therapists and I'm amazed they're still in practice and I ask them every day like how do you do it and I would love to go back to it as well in some capacity but I just knew that I could do something different that might help more people than I would in my office privately so which leads

30:22Alex Chisnall:just perfectly back to revenge. Tell me, so you told us a little bit about who you met and how it came about, how it got started and a little bit about the vision. What types of founders and businesses are you backing? Who is your fund for basically?

30:42Nell Daly:Yeah. So we're, our fund is fully inclusive, even though I signal to the market every single day with the work that I do in terms of marketing revenge, that we want to also back founders that have been traditionally overlooked. That's really important for me. So, you know, I didn't want to have a fund that was just focused on women. I wanted it to be, I always want to try to execute a vision of the world that I want to see in the future. DEI is obviously not dead with me, but I wanted to make it so it was fully inclusive. Plus I have a business partner who's a man, which I think is a really unique thing.

31:21Nell Daly:A lot of women who start funds start funds with other women, and there's nothing wrong with that. I would have loved if that had been my trajectory years ago, for sure. What happened to me is that I ended up partnering with a man, and it's a really nice balance for myself and him that there's this masculine, feminine energy in the room. And it's been like it's already a lot of fun. And I really have my work at the Female Quotient made me realize how important it was because I was listening to executive conversations for a very long time with some of the top executives in the world. That's what we did.

31:55Nell Daly:We put on these big events where we had them on stage and I got to listen to all of their information that they had to impart to us and the studies that they had read or the studies that they had done internally in their organizations and how powerful it is to have diverse teams. socioeconomic diversity is important gender diversity uh you know all the all the things we talk about neurodiversity uh age differences and so i look to back teams that understand that fundamentally are building cultures that support that uh so i always say if two white boys with a drink brand come to me i'm absolutely going to look at that just as much as i would two women who come to me with a different kind of company, especially if I think I'm going to make money to be able to continue funding other entrepreneurs who are coming down the pike.

32:44Nell Daly:So we're fully inclusive. We are global. We are sector agnostic. So it's like anything goes with us, which is very unusual in this space. Most people hone in on a category and most people in the U.S. especially just invest in US companies. They don't necessarily go global because Andrew's in London and I spend three weeks a month in New York. We are able to be global. And I wanted to be global because I love the UK so much. I am obsessed with it as a testing ground. And I wanted to be able to help the people I care about the most, you know, over there, the entrepreneurs that I meet to bring their businesses and help scale them into the U.S.

33:30Nell Daly:market? And I didn't want to take out Africa or working in the Middle East or other parts of Asia. Great question. It's such a great question. So I've boiled it down after doing this now for, you know, a little while now. We launched Revenge officially in December in the U.K. market, but we've been going for about a year at that point. And there's three things that have to come together. One, I have to really enjoy the founder and the founder has to enjoy working with me. So you want somebody who is coachable and also it feels very reciprocal. When I was a therapist, I didn't have a chair and a couch.

34:10Nell Daly:I wasn't in a position of power. I had two couches and I was like, I'm in this with you. So I very much approached my relationship, which maybe isn't traditional VC where I sort of have the power and the money and I can dictate certain things to you. That was also why it was really critical for this to be what's called an evergreen fund, because I didn't want the pressure to from a from my LP or GP to pressure me to make sure that the business is scale in a certain amount of time to get the money back. With an evergreen fund, we can invest in things that might take more time. I wanted to stop that cycle of what I felt was bullying, a bit misogynistic.

34:48Nell Daly:I wasn't going to participate in that. So we're a little bit different that way, but I need to feel like there's a good relationship with the founder. We need to have a real strong belief in the founder. We need to believe in the idea because I am going to be your biggest cheerleader. I will be on stages. I will be on television. I will be doing podcasts talking about your brand, whether that's a tech company or a consumer company. So I need to really believe in it. And then you need to have your shit together in terms of your financials. You need to have a sound business plan without a crazy valuation that's actually going to eventually make money and be able to scale on a global level.

35:28Alex Chisnall:Yeah, then it's not. Usually it's like buying a house.

35:31Nell Daly:Usually it's like, shit, I love the house. I love the bathroom. I love the master bedroom, but weird location. You know what I mean? Like there's always something kind of -

35:41Alex Chisnall:Oh, it hasn't got a garden. Oh man.

35:43Nell Daly:Yeah, exactly. Like roof stack, but not a garden. or like garage, but, you know, up on a busy road. So it's very much like when people come in, you want them to nail all three of those factors. And you also want the entrepreneur to know that if they're not good at the financial piece, but they're great at the vision, they're great at execution, they're great at developing relationships, you've got to get some sort of fractional CFO on the phone with us to give an investor confidence that we're not investing in someone that's just got crazy numbers on an Excel spreadsheet that make no sense and you start poking holes at it.

36:18And, you know, they really have no idea

36:21Nell Daly:whether this business is gonna make a lot of money or not. It's almost easier for me to answer the question to say one of the things that's a big flag to me is when, and this is a small point, but it's a big one, when people take out their marketing costs from their cost of goods. So I'll have somebody who's selling, you know, let's say it's lipstick and they'll say, oh, I'm doing so well, I'm making$600 ,000 a month. It's like, yeah, but you're spending X amount on digital advertising. So if you added that to your cost of goods, you're actually losing a hundred thousand dollars a month.

36:51Alex Chisnall:That's good. Cause I was going to ask you what, what, what's a red flag that you come across. Okay. That's a good one. Yeah. Okay.

36:57Nell Daly:Yeah. That's one. And when you're early on in a business, uh, another red flag is, you know, everybody wants to hold onto their equity and I get it because we also face the problem sometimes where we love the founder, we love the idea, but they have very little equity left. And so we're like, what's your incentive to stay in this business if we start investing in it? Because you might peace out and you're critical to the mission. So, you know, there's, I mean, red flags, we could talk, we could do an entire week of podcasts.

37:25Alex Chisnall:We could, we could do that. We definitely need to do a longer episode. So we could do that one for sure. What's the boldest decision you've made thus far with Revenge Capital?

37:34Nell Daly:The branding. Yeah. I think naming it.

37:37Alex Chisnall:Everyone's going to go and look at the branding now, right?

37:39Nell Daly:I mean, I think the name Revenge says a lot.

37:41Alex Chisnall:Yeah, yes.

37:42Nell Daly:Very provocative. And I, the bigger issue here is that I felt like there was very little leadership that I was seeing in the UK and in the US where women were willing to put it. I hate to say, you know what, I'm going to qualify that. people in general aren't willing necessarily like really put it on the line and create like a an inspiring character that people can really get behind what's like the inspiring concept and whether this works or not I have no idea I think it is working um but I wanted to it's not necessarily easy for me or natural for me Alex and you would think because I'm outspoken and extroverted it would be.

38:24Nell Daly:But how do you create a character that inspires people to take a look and take a pause? What I needed more so than women to be on board with the mission is other men, right? To kind of look up in the industry and go, what's this? And I've gotten a lot of like, I've gotten much more like, thank God you're out there. This is the new face of venture. We needed this. This is a breath of fresh air. And I could invent because I'm not from the industry. But I can tell you, I have had conversations with people who, you know, were investment bankers and then went into private equity and then went into venture or, you know, been in finance their whole lives who are like, what is this?

39:03Nell Daly:You know, and I'm like, I'm not your person. And like, you don't need to be on board with this, but this is the new face. This is what we need to be signaling to the market. If only if 97 % of all venture capital dollars in the U.S. go to men, people need to be provocative and stand up for what the fuck is going on there. And so revenge is my personal mission to, and it was the team's mission to say, we're creatives. We're people from outside this industry that want to change something. We want to also model disruption.

39:36Alex Chisnall:Yeah, I was going to say to you, what was broken or what's still broken?

39:41Nell Daly:In the venture capital world? Yeah. I think, listen, the needle hasn't changed much in terms of investing. And it's a much bigger conversation why women traditionally haven't gotten the same kind of money as men. There's a confluence of factors there that don't just have to do with bias. But I do think if I put two people in a room, a female founding team and a male founding team with, you know, the majority of venture capital firms, I watch guys raise money at a level who come to me and I can't believe with their pitches, their decks, their data rooms that they've gotten as far as they've gotten.

40:20Where I see women who have much tighter ships, much more interesting branding, better ideas.

40:27Nell Daly:They're, you know, so quick to execute. They can't raise a dollar. I will say I have seen that firsthand.

40:34Alex Chisnall:That's good to call it. Yeah.

40:35Nell Daly:Yeah. And it's really shocking and sad to me. But, you know, we're here to change that. And more and more women are raising funds. So there's not only is it about funding more entrepreneurs, it's about creating more of me. We need more women who are partners at venture firms and we need more women further down the line in private equity because it also gets very, very tight in private equity. So my companies are either going to go public or they're going to be bought by private equity. And I need women around those tables as well.

41:01Alex Chisnall:Yeah, good shout. Yeah. I'm going to ask you a couple more questions and then we'll do a quick fire round. So looking back on your life, what screw it, just do it decision has changed your life the most? Big question, I know, but you've reinvented yourself a number of times. But I don't know if it was that conversation with Andrew that you said or something like way back in the day. But if you could choose maybe one or two moments, what would those be now?

41:28Nell Daly:I think in my most recent history, it would certainly be taking a deep breath in that conversation when he said, why are we really meeting and putting myself on the line and telling him I want to raise a fund. I want my own fund. And he said, how much? And I said, 5 million. I think I said 5 or 10 million. I have to go back and ask him.

41:46Alex Chisnall:Really? Did you?

41:47Nell Daly:Yeah. And I don't think I lowballed myself, but he came back with a much bigger number. Thank God. It's so fun. uh so i think but i remember taking a deep breath and i i've told this story before where i heard that it sounds so cheesy but i heard that hamilton song in my head right which was like take your shot you know from the hamilton soundtrack and i just remember taking a deep breath and kind of looking across the restaurant and looking back at him and just directly going for it because i was like fuck it but i was also at a point where i was so frustrated with the UK market in the way that I felt like women were being treated, that I was like, I'm done.

42:29Nell Daly:I'm out. So, you know, it's like this, there's this moment where you just, you're just like, I give up. Like I'm done. I'm going back. I'm going to work in New York. I'm going to work in Miami. I could get more done in a day there than I can in a year in the UK. It feels like I'm out. So unless you give me, you know,$10 million, I'm leaving this meeting and never coming back and goodbye. So I think I had that weird hubris where you've just let go of the outcome. I think that was probably one of the biggest things. And then I also think I have those little moments of Scrooge's Do It where we just did a big photo shoot for a magazine in London and we did all the creative direction for it, Charlotte and I, and we worked with this incredible team.

43:09Nell Daly:And it's still so outside the industry of what we think the industry is supposed to look like. And there's all these moments in my head where I'm like, well, fuck it, I can do it, but it's a screw it, just do it moment. I mean, it's not, you know, it's, I know that what I'm doing is provocative.

43:27Alex Chisnall:I love it. If there's one thing you'd want your, your kids to know about taking action and not procrastinating, what would it be?

43:36Nell Daly:I'm going to reframe that question just for a second because procrastination is actually incredibly active thing. So we generally get taught that procrastination is bad, but procrastination, what are you doing while you're procrastinating? Thinking.

43:51Alex Chisnall:Yeah. Okay. I like the reframe.

43:53Nell Daly:Cleaning your room, watching a Netflix show, taking a walk, going shopping. So we think of procrastination as sitting on a log and doing nothing where it actually is incredibly active thing. So I always say to my kids when I see them procrastinating, what's underneath it? What are you avoiding? What's like the deeper thing that you're doing? Or what are you actually pursuing that you like better than what you should be doing? And let's dive into that. Because a lot of the stuff that I see that my kids have to do for school, I think is total bullshit and super boring. And I think with the emergence of AI, you know, I look at some of the things that they do now.

44:30Nell Daly:I'm like, thank God, because I had to sit and do that. Like just the annotations of notebooks that they're like using AI to do now, those on papers. We'll never, Alex, you and I will never get those hours back. And I think I'm so relieved for my own children that they don't have to spend hours doing shit that didn't really matter. And so I am very, I'm very kind of like open in my thinking about education, especially as an entrepreneur, because no one's ever asked where I've, and it didn't, it matters in the sense that I'm able to have intelligent conversation with people. and when I'm on television and I can bring up sort of world history and I know about politics and I know about social policy and I'm able to articulate myself about U.S.

45:12Nell Daly:history or world history in a way that maybe other people can't because of my education. But I think a lot of stuff that our kids do is stupid, right? Or that we've had to do in the past has been stupid too. So what I would tell my kids is watch me, watch mom take risk, watch mom fail, Watch mom embarrass herself. And then my kids also are great in encouraging me to do stuff that makes me really nervous. I'm lucky. There was a time in parenting where they were embarrassed and now they've kind of crossed the threshold. And I think that they really like to see me out there trying things. And my only hope is that it inspires them to not leave any stone unturned.

45:56Alex Chisnall:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Amen. Amen. Quick fire round, a couple of questions to finish off. So whatever comes into your head, first answer, short and sweet, what is an entrepreneur?

46:08Nell Daly:I think an entrepreneur is just somebody who has a dream who's willing to live it out.

46:12Alex Chisnall:Perfect. Why is the USA better at producing scale-ups and unicorns in the UK?

46:18Nell Daly:Mindset.

46:18Alex Chisnall:Great answer. Haven't had that one yet. What is a scale-up business?

46:22Nell Daly:One that has a lot of fucking customers.

46:25Alex Chisnall:that's the best answer I've ever heard what can entrepreneurs look forward to when hearing you at the festival entrepreneurs

46:34Nell Daly:oh I think a laugh definitely I think just no bullshit like no bullshit I because I don't know I don't I don't know what I don't know right I'm not from this this is all like we're all having fun together exploring it and I'm just like as a therapist like someone was doing something I'd be Like that's fucked up. Like I will call it like I see it. You know, I'm, I am that girl. So I don't, I don't just like, I don't, I'm not like cushy. Like I'm like, okay, we're going to just call it like it is and laugh about it. So I think they're going to get that kind of vibe from me for sure.

47:12Alex Chisnall:From the outside looking in then, what does the UK need to do to get more startups?

47:18Nell Daly:I think a lot of people that I speak to, and I don't want to, because I hate this idea that I'm an American and we're better at this thing and I can come and like teach. And it's so condescending because I learned so much from my UK counterparts as well. But I think one thing that we can all improve on always is teaching children that nothing is impossible. And I think the UK is very based around a service industry. and I think it's about changing sort of the fiber of the beings of kids or even people our age and just somehow you say something in therapy you say a thousand things you and I always say it's like throwing spaghetti against a wall and then I could say one phrase to you that's just going to stick and completely change your life but I have no idea what those phrases are right we're constantly mining for those and I'm sure you can look back on your own life Alex and go oh my god there's this one thing that someone said to me this one day that just changed everything.

48:17Nell Daly:And that's the beauty of having conversations with people about your intimate things, about what you're dreaming about. And so to answer that question, I think we just need to keep having conversations like this because somebody is going to hear it and it's just going to start to get into the water a little bit more and people are going to start drinking the Kool-Aid that they can open their minds to the possibility that a dream that they might have can come true. In part though, the frustrating thing is you've got the people who have the dream, but there's no money to support the dreams. And that's what we also need to change more in the UK, that there has to be like, you can't just tell people like have a dream and they step into a dry river of capital.

48:59Nell Daly:We actually have to have money moving in order to make those dreams come true for people. And I'm working on that side of it now.

49:06Alex Chisnall:You are indeed. And we look forward to hearing more about it and meeting you in person once again at the Festival of Entrepreneurs this October in the UK at Birmingham. So Nell Daly, thank you very much indeed.

49:18Nell Daly:Oh, Alex, you're such a love. Thank you.

49:20Alex Chisnall:That conversation just proves something. You are the average of the five people you spend the most time with. So here's my challenge. Upgrade your network. The Festival of Entrepreneurs is happening October the 8th and 9th, and I'm giving my listeners free two-day passes to get in the room with 5 ,000 to 10 ,000 entrepreneurs who are actually building something. This is where the risk-takers, the game-changers, and the people who've decided to screw it and just do it come for inspiration, education, and connection. Don't just listen to their success stories. Go meet the people living them. Grab your free pass now because the biggest risk isn't taking a chance.

49:56Alex Chisnall:It's missing the opportunity entirely. If this conversation resonated with you, don't just sit there, act on it. Make sure you follow or subscribe for more game-changing conversations. And remember, the only thing standing between you and your business breakthrough is the decision to screw it and just do it.