He Had Everything… Then His Daughter Asked One Question

31:38I eventually retired in 2017. Every year I would say, okay, next year I'll focus on it. And rugby players don't realize the tools that are available. The tools are meaning the people in their proximity. They've got access to sponsors. You need to be curious. In order to figure out what you want to do, you need to be curious. I didn't know I wanted to be an entrepreneur. I didn't know that I had the skill set to create the service or create the offer. I'll be honest, even before COVID hit, I didn't know I could do online coaching. It was like this vast dream of doing an online platform, and then COVID forced my hand in order to do that.

32:18But I think players are living in their own bubble at times. They feel that rugby is all they have. They feel that they don't have. And I'm talking now where there's the exception to the rule, those who are studying, that are doing their degrees. Some have become doctors. Some have studied finance and all those types of things. But I advise players that you need to learn new skills. While you're playing, you've got to develop. You've got to get out of your comfort zone because there's something that rugby teaches us, but teaches no one else, you know, that ability to stay in the fight. You're not always the strongest rugby player, but if you do weight training and strength and conditioning, you can become stronger.

32:57You can be unfit, but you can become fitter. You can learn new skills. You need to stay ahead of the game. It's constantly evolving. So there's so many lessons that rugby teaches us. And I believe it's a great space to be in now for rugby players. And, you know, that's also why you're going to be coming on to my podcast to talk about why rugby players should have a podcast, you know, so that people can get to know them, that they can pull away all those different layers. So my biggest advice to rugby players now is that you kind of need to just get out there and be curious. You need to see what is out there.

33:34Like you mentioned, AI is taking over. AI is creating havoc, is making certain jobs obsolete. But rather focusing on how can you use AI? Not making decisions for you, but how can it help you? Maybe it can help you to figure out, this is what I'm passionate about. What jobs could I do when I'm done with it? But at the end of the day, I think what I always tell players, even if you decide on your off day to work on carpentry, you're learning a new skill. You're doing plumbing. You're learning a skill. But just that sense of accomplishment that I can do something outside of rugby. I can learn a new skill.

34:14That is so important. And I think a lot of players just struggle with that once they're done because they didn't try anything new. They didn't try anything different. And I can tell to any player out there that might be struggling post-rugby, we are capable of anything as as our former athletes we do have something in our dna that one we do have the burning desire to achieve something great and two we are capable of learning

34:39Alex Chisnall:new skills yeah and i think i mean i can't relate it i've never won a you know rugby world cup or european championship but you know if you i think if you set a goal and you achieve it for me it was it was running a running a marathon you know a couple of years back but when you accomplish something like that that only again nought point however many you know in the population have ever ever achieved and yours is going to be even smaller right it does give you that mindset even though that might be fleeting and temporary that at that time you could go on to literally do whatever you want and i know that's going to be you know endorphins and and belief because you've achieved something you know you'll know more about the psychology than me but um that's why i think it's so important for people to have goals and achieve them um or you know it's that it's that thing isn't it about you know trying to reach the moon but but reaching the stars instead you know that that kind of mindset um what what surprised you um gee about entrepreneurship compared with sport and coaching has anything surprised you um i i think compared to rugby even rugby there are different things you can't control.

35:50You can control your fitness and your conditioning, but you can never control what the oppositioning is doing. I won't say there were things that surprised me. I think what I did realize is that when I went into entrepreneurship, out of my depth I was, you know, it's the simple things, not having the skill to do a proper pitch, or you have a 30 second window to convince a director that he should give you a second meeting, You know about your um and ah, and you need to get to the point. Or going into a meeting, you're pitching your resilience training or your mindset seminars, and it tells you, but that's not what I want.

36:31And I think what entrepreneurship world has taught me is that a lot of things can happen. You can plan for everything, but you need to be adaptable. You need to be adaptable. But I think what I've experienced in rugby through all the challenges I've faced, the times I was told I would never play for the spring box again, and then the following year I was named player of the year, is that in moments of adversity, we discover who we really are. And being involved now in entrepreneurship, I take on the mindset of just staying in a fight and focusing on the compound interest system. We are the result of our efforts.

37:12so sometimes we work towards something and in rugby sometimes it takes years to get to a certain level because you're still developing as a player but just by being consistent in your efforts you will get to your results and one thing that I've learned in entrepreneurship is that you just got to be consistent doesn't always have to be perfect but most importantly is I think the biggest surprise to answer your question i have so much more to learn so much more to learn so much more but you know it was just a humbling experience a while back before i had eddie jones on my podcast i actually jumped on a call you know just for some of my coaching development you know i wanted to ask him some questions how does he approach this his systems blah blah blah etc i didn't ask him one question he was the one asking all the questions and he was writing down and that was so humbling but yeah entrepreneurship is is exciting as well because i get to see the the benefits of the efforts that i've put in i get to see that everything i've created are not me when i say we the people that support me my community even in my community i tell them it's not it's our community the the feedback i'm getting the connections that that i'm getting through it you know the people that support me i realize that if you are your authentic self and the stuff that you put out there people will come to you and i'll be honest with you i don't even do now anymore the whole lead magnet thing and all those type of stuff you know people contact me organically and i think i think the biggest lesson i've learned the more authentic you are or showing the true version of yourself that attracts people yeah yeah 100 and you know as

38:59Alex Chisnall:you mentioned um me coming onto your show which um you know really excited about it reminded me um you know one of the biggest benefits of um you know starting your own podcast of telling your own story of you know having your own voice is is the accidental network that you build out right um it was only yesterday someone you'll know as well george cruz ex you know england rugby clara ex british lion contacted me on linkedin and just said alex how much do you know this guy any any chance of a connection we're trying to get you know he's got four or five amazing wellness company i've literally got you know his uh one of his drinks here that i'm drinking that ever since he's been on the podcast four years ago i still order those tablets you know hydration tablets um and i was like yeah i i know him i'm happy to introduce you know get your product into more stores and again it's it's just having those connections and you get them in as an entrepreneur right because um you want to you want to connect with as many people as possible when you start with and then you know after that you can get a bit more selective before you know you get overwhelmed but having a podcast um or something's conversation with this guy yesterday is like instead of let's meet for a coffee and have a conversation let's meet for a virtual coffee why don't you just jump on a podcast and we'll hit the record button we're still gonna have a great conversation and learn stuff by the end of it right and and again i'm gonna want to connect you with people you might be thinking who you connect me with maybe that's just me but that's how my mind works so you know somebody like like you know george cruz yesterday it's like yeah i'd love to help you man you know i love what you've built um i knew you as a player but i you know i didn't know you as a person now i've got to know you as a person why wouldn't i want to help you that's a great thing and that's what i love about pot because you just mentioned this connection you know like even like we met for the first person i think it was about two years ago when we played bath and that was brilliant.

40:53And the great thing about podcasting, it allows you to develop relationships and it also allows you to develop a skill set. And what I picked up, I'll be honest, for so many years, I was used to people asking me the questions that actually I struggled with communication. When the question stopped about me or people asked me, I didn't know how to kind of continue it at this stage, especially when you meet someone that you don't know. and and i picked up that i laughed because even like i was back at home with myself and my dad would have great chats so my dad would always ask me and i would have some like how are you doing this how you approach this and now this and even at some stage people say like but you're asking a lot of questions it doesn't stop so i actually realize it now it's actually having an ability to show interest in other people and i think that that is great and what i love about podcasting is that you learn so much.

41:47You are constantly learning. I do podcasting because I learn a lot of things, you know, from players and from coaches. But any purpose-driven human being, next week I'll probably have one of the first guests on my podcast who was not a high-performance coach or has not played at the highest level. He's a teacher at a university of applied sciences. and we're going to be talking about the cognitive skills that players need how players can develop their attention span how coaches can help players to stimulate working memory and stimulate active recall because as coaches we all have a problem today that players can't remember their job and we just keep on going at players but to come back to your question like i would advise rugby players or any athlete, start a podcast because the reason for that is it allows you in a way to develop some sense of authority outside the rugby field.

42:53You're getting out of your comfort zone, so I'll be also now starting French podcasts. That means I'll be doing podcasts in French. Really? Yeah. So now I have to speak in French. Bonjour, comment tu as fait ça? Comment tu as réalisé ça? It's going to be crazy because I'm going to make so many mistakes, but it's going to be a great journey but podcasting allows you to reach so many people and i'll be honest with you i've been reaching a lot out to my former coaches and even when spending time with the box and and the first thing people say gee we love your podcast i'm like what you're listening to it that's awesome so yeah so it's a brilliant space alex to be in you know and i've got to thank you for it because it actually started with you years ago with my first podcast i think more than five years ago which was just coach g and then i reached out to you again and yeah so thanks for

43:45Alex Chisnall:everything you've been doing and helping me in this space pleasure man absolute pleasure um so do you think more athletes need to be thinking like entrepreneurs earlier not not because everybody needs a startup but because they need options in life right yeah i totally agree so what i've been doing is you need to you need to learn how to create an offer you need to learn how to create certain products. Like when I started out back in the day, I thought by just doing a post on Instagram saying, if you want to improve your scrum, send me a DM. Yeah, yeah. Crickets. You know, nobody. So we all have something unique, you know, whether it's a motivational speaking.

44:26I've had so many great people that became CEO of companies because they were rugby players. Victor Matful became a CEO of a company because he was packing away chairs because that showed to the director of the company, And he's someone that won a World Cup is willing to pack away chairs. But then the story behind that, Victor was packing away chairs because he didn't feel comfortable speaking to people because he's been out of the game for so long. And when people stopped talking about rugby, he felt exposed, which is a lot of players like, now I'm comfortable. I can talk about a lot of things, which is not at all to do with rugby.

45:04And that's great. So that's actually what I'm doing now with a lot of players. you know, I'm actually in the process now of creating the service for athletes to start their own communities. And maybe not knowing what they want to offer, but just starting it then, charging a membership for people so people can have access to them, them connecting with people, getting used to that. Because at the end of the day, by not trying things and not trying experiments, it is unbelievable, I think it's called Tiny Experiments or something like that, the book and sometimes just try something see where it leads see where it goes and and i this is actually what i did um when i started my online community on school i didn't know where it was going and then it just led into so many different things and i think players need to know that they need to use social media um so that people can get to know who they really are not just put stuff on social media when they go to Mauritius or they go to the US or they go to some remote island.

46:05You know, a guy which I love, the stuff he does on social media is Kyle Sinclair. You know, he shares stuff about the Scrum, but he also talks about mental health and he's also started his own podcast, I think, as well. So I definitely advise players. So I'm in the process now of helping a few players set up everything, creating their own unique ecosystem, setting up their own podcast and setting up, you know, the school community. What should they be putting out in social media? Because when I say my content is very selective, it's not random. I put out content and I ask myself, what can make a difference?

46:39What can impact people? I want to, because I received the message in my community as coach, I'm struggling. My coach asked me to play tight end, but I'm a lucid. And like the last two weeks, I've been putting content out there, how to be a hybrid prop, how to prepare for that and i i think the reason i was so anxious because actually after this call i have to record that video which will be in my community which will be a 30-minute coaching call how to become a hybrid prop and because i put myself under so much pressure each time i do this content it's not about being perfect it's because i actually care about it so when i put content out there or when i'm recording content it's about is this going to be good enough for the people listening is it gonna add value to them is it gonna help them is gonna empower them so i really uh take a lot of pride in my work so yeah but i know i'm speaking but all over the place but i think rugby players and athletes need to know there are so many great tools available now which they can use to their benefit and not just spending time on their phone doom strolling because it just drains you you're just draining energy social media has a place but

47:53Alex Chisnall:you got to use it correctly yeah um i agree and i guess you know they're they're so used to being in their own bubble right as well you can't see what's outside of it um i like follow it uh genji as well he's always got another prop obviously as well alice gen but he i love how he shares stuff you know and he's very uh you know bristol west country and sharing his roots and community and He's obviously very funny at the same time, but very honest, brutally honest sometimes about himself, right? Also, so for those who aren't athletes, but they're maybe stuck in a career that no longer fits, what does going in on yourself actually look like in practice?

48:33Going in or going all in?

48:34Alex Chisnall:Going all in on yourself. So I think, you know, for somebody that's stuck in the career, Firstly, I advise people not to just quit their job. I think, firstly, they need to discover. Definitely advise them to first just connect with people, reach out, learn. And you know the beauty, what I love about which podcasting has taught me because sometimes you need to get onto calls and you need to get to know people before you get them on the pod. So every week I just jump on calls with people with no intention of getting something. Like in my community, I jump probably about 10 to 12 calls a week, 20 minute calls, and I just have a chat with them and I learn stuff from them and I help them where I can.

49:21I jump on calls with coaches. But I would definitely tell people that if they're feeling stuck, you've got to ask yourself, what are you passionate about? Okay? What are you passionate about? Then you've got to ask yourself, but what skill sets do I have? If you don't have a certain skill set, learn develop new skills learn one develop new skills and at the end of the day you're going to ask yourself you know what is the bigger picture you know where are you going what do you want to achieve don't just look in terms of the monetary value of something look at like is this going to be fulfilling is this going to nourish me is this going to be food for my soul and those are the important things you need to ask and but i think the advice i would give to people like firstly ask yourself, who do you want to become?

50:06So that's your identity. Two, what's the vehicle going to be? So that means, what do I need to learn? What are the tools? And we're all big fans of the hero's journey. At some stage, there's a call to arms because you've got to defend your village and you might be weak. You'll be like the karate kid and you need to find your Mr. Miyagi. And then you become stronger. You wax on and you wax off. And that's it. You learn. You learn. If I look at now, we had March, I stopped becoming a full-time coach 1st of July last year, almost a year later. The things I've learned now, it's crazy in terms of what I've put into place, the ecosystem I've put into place, the skills I've learned, how to use AI.

50:52And not AI, making decisions for me, using it actually as, how can I say, a bouncing ball, just in terms of figuring out, listen, yeah. How does this work? You know, bouncing ideas of it. And so like, I would like to do a video on this topic. Ask me 20 questions, which my audience potentially would like to know and not just feed it. So yeah, I think it's just about being curious. There's so many great resources on YouTube and so many people follow the right people, follow the right people that inspire you because it might just lead to a path which you didn't actually plan and it just comes to you one day.

51:32Alex Chisnall:yeah yeah yeah um last question and then dive into a quick quick fire round because as usual as everybody knows who listens to my show i always run over by a few minutes um what would you say to somebody then who needs to make that move but they're still clinging to that you know old identity because you talk quite a lot here about becoming the person that you want to be but but what what about those people who are still clinging on to that old vision of themselves what What could they do to kind of, you know, shake off that old identity and become the person that they ultimately want to become?

52:05Yeah, so often when we cling to our old identity, that's because that's our comfort zone. That's our security blanket. And I think to change, to have that significant change, you've got to ask yourself, okay, why do I want this change? What is the reason behind it? And do I actually believe I can achieve it? There's a difference between doubt and not believing at all. So doubt is just that voice in your head saying that, nah, you won't make it. But if you really believe to your core that you can achieve it, then you need to go for it. But to get rid of that old identity of yours, you've got to be clear on who you want to become.

52:46And if it's really someone that you will be proud of, is it somebody that will leave his mark or his or her mark in the world? and then you've got to ask as if once you've clarified that then you could ask okay but how do I get there and I like to do this exercise a lot of people get scared off when they see the starting point and the so-called destination and I've got bad news for people there is no destination because if it's a destination you're just limiting yourself it's just a certain point in time which you're working toward because your journey might change it might evolve but what i like to do is and this is what i also do if i set certain goals for myself in terms of what i want to achieve i reverse engineer it so i said okay if this is going to be in 12 months then i say to myself okay where should i be at nine where should i be at six where should before then i say like who's my team because you can't do everything alone you need a team you need people that can help you and sometimes you need to make tough calls.

53:50I had to make a few tough calls as well a few months ago when I changed things up on the podcast as well. But you need a team behind you. You need a support system behind you. But most importantly, you need to get out of your comfort zone. And sometimes it's doing things that might not be at all related to your new job or your new journey, but just proving to yourself, I can do it. I'll share something. where there's a book I read ages ago when I got back into podcasting called The Artist's Way. I don't know if you're familiar with it. No. It's by Julia Cameron. So I read it because I wanted to be more creative, you know, help me with the flow of the content.

54:31And there was this one week where I was not allowed to listen to any music with words. I wasn't allowed to watch any television, no social media. Only time I could use my computer if it was for work. Other than that, to occupy myself, I had to go for walks. And that time I was still in La Rochelle. I'd go for walks. I could journal. That was it. It was weird. And actually, I realized, and that was a massive challenge, and I finished one whole week without watching series, YouTube, doomless scrolling on social media. I actually realized that I can be comfortable with my own thoughts and that was taking myself out of my comfort zone.

55:20So what I'm trying to share there is I did something which I didn't think I was capable of doing but it allowed me to identify a small win. If you're capable of identifying the small wins you can actually start to realize, listen yeah I can do this so I don't need to stay I can evolve as a human being and you just mentioned earlier sometimes you feel like we're in the first quarter now of the year is almost gone and sometimes it feels like you've achieved nothing and let's be honest we can't remember everything and that's why writing things down is important I went through that write down your wins I do it in my journal you know what's the great thing got a monthly log so you log the two most important events on that day, good or bad.

56:08So when I open up my journal, I can see exactly what I did for the whole month. And that keeps you motivated. But at the end of the day, you've got to believe, you've got to ask yourself where you want to begin, what's your vehicle, and you've just got to start. You've just got to focus, be obsessed with the process, not the result. That's the main thing. Often, and I always tell this, it comes down with the scrum dominator mindset. So a lot of players, when they take on my courses, it's because they're looking for a dominant outcome. So before they work with me, they are being dominated. They are being destroyed and they're being humiliated.

56:50But at some stage, they are frustrated. And then I ask him why. They said, but coach, I'm not dominating yet. I'm not good enough. I'm useless. I'm like, okay. But before we started working together, you were destroyed. So for the first time, you have discovered positive outcomes. It's like, what do you mean, coach? I said, you didn't advance in the scrum or go forward one to two meters, but you want 10 centimeters. I said, that's a positive outcome. And it's important for people to stop looking at the ultimate goal or those big wins. Identify the positive outcomes. Like you've invested yourself in doing certain things and look at those small wins.

57:37I think that's very important. So at the end of the day, you've got to believe in yourself. You've got to back yourself. When we talk about going all in, all in doesn't always mean leaving your job. All in doesn't always mean investing all your savings into a business. All in means giving it your best effort and just being consistent and not being sidetracked when things are not going the way it should. it's about focusing on the solutions because we can't change the past alright we can live in the now but we can impact the future

58:09Alex Chisnall:I think it's really important to say that have a vision of who you want to become but actually choose the vehicle that you want to get there which a lot of people forget to do that well look we're diving to a quick fire round so first thing that comes into your head short and snappy first one for you what is an entrepreneur? An entrepreneur is that using his unique set of skills and inspiring people, making a massive change, but at the same time creating a life for himself or herself and his family. I like it. I like the last part. What is a scale-up for you? What is a scale-up business? A scale-up in business, it depends if you're talking about monetary size of things or growth.

58:54So for me, scale up in business is the amount of people that you're impacting, but that's just the inner coach in me.

59:00Alex Chisnall:Yeah, no, I like that. What can we do to encourage more people to start businesses, to grow, to scale, to become the next unicorn? Searching for fullness. Being content with, not content, but being happy. Striving for happiness because sometimes you might find yourself in a job, which you hate, but you have to do it. because you need to pay the bills. But being an entrepreneur, you can potentially find yourself being remunerated for something which you actually love. Yeah, you can indeed, as we both have discovered. What's one entrepreneur who inspires you? Well, that's a quick one. I must say I'm a big fan of Stephen Bartlett, you know, diary of the CEO.

59:49You know, he's still young, everything where he started. I think and you know he started his podcast in his in his basement I'm not mistaken but just being consistent and what I like is that he doesn't pretend to know it all you can still see that humbling effect when he speaks it comes through in his podcast it comes through the guests you can see really cares about the stuff he's talking about he really cares about it so So that's someone that really inspires me.

1:00:19Alex Chisnall:If you could pick a song that symbolizes your journey, what song could you pick? They don't know what we know.

1:00:33Honestly, that's a tough one. I'll call that one out because actually it started, someone created this version of it with AI. They don't know what we know. But that's what South Africans are all about. You know, people don't always understand us. Sometimes they might criticize us. But people don't know what we know. So that means, you know what, South Africans are capable of anything. A lot of people write us off on the global point of view and all those type of things. And that's something that drives me, my South African heritage. You know, that's important because it's anchored in my DNA.

1:01:11Alex Chisnall:My favorite country as well. I need to go back. last question if having been on the show now a couple of times right um if you could recommend somebody for the show um who would that be and you don't have to answer now you can you can think about that but wow um i'll be honest with you the one guy would actually get on the show and and i've been fortunate to have quite a few great people on there it was actually my my reason was two guys. It's CJ Stunder because of what he's created post-rugby. He's big into property development at the moment, but his mindset taking that call to stop playing rugby at the age of 31.

1:01:51He retired from rugby completely. He could have potentially still played for another few years. He spoke about immersing himself into the Irish culture. Also, the podcast that the time of us recording right now, I just released it today, actually, is with Skull Brits. Saracen's legend. Someone that has played only 15 test matches for the Springboks but then got called back after retirement to the 2019 World Cup. But also what he put into place for life after rugby. Having him on the podcast, a lot of people started labeling him as a younger version of Simon Sinek, which is hilarious. But yeah, definitely I think Those are the two latest ones that I've had.

1:02:40But if you have to go all the way back, it will probably have to be my first one, Anthony Watson. And I will always remember, and he said, the main thing needs to remain the main thing. And, you know, that sticks in my mind when I'm planning out my week or I have loads of stuff I need to do. Like even today, I had lots of stuff. And I said to myself, gee, what's the main thing?

1:03:07Alex Chisnall:and i always think as well off the back of that you just like if i could just pick one thing today that moves the main thing forward yeah forget about like i need to post this on show i need to record this this podcast i need you know what is the one action that you could take and it could be small or big right but yeah you tick that off on your list today you could sleep easy tonight knowing that you've moved things forward right and as you say small wins over time create momentum and then ultimately you're moving forward towards your goal yes so for a great example of that like i've got potentially hour and a half before i have to have a heart shut down and could pick up my little girl and spend some time with the family so like i was supposed to record a coaching video after this right now but now i'm sitting with two things i haven't connected with my community i haven't replied to any of my dms so now the question is what is more important the coaching video or connecting with my community.

1:04:04And for me, that's my community. It's that simple. So in terms of my line of thought, will it be such a bad thing if my coaching video doesn't go out today? No. As long as it is out by Monday, it's good.

1:04:18Alex Chisnall:Yeah, yeah. No, I like that. Connecting with the community before the weekend and everyone dives into Saturday, big, big games for rugby, football, et cetera. Sunday, more family stuff. And then it's back to work mode Monday. So that makes sense to me. And for those people who are listening who do want to connect with you and your community, best place to go to? Tell us a bit about that school itself. Yeah, very simple. I would advise them just to go to my Instagram account, which is ggstiencamp, and they can just drop me a DM community, and they will receive an automated message with the link community, and they can reach out to me there because that's where I reply to all my messages.

1:04:55That's where I'm the most consistent in terms of the DM. so they can just reach out to me over there and that would be the best way.

1:05:03Alex Chisnall:Amazing. Well, look, as always, I could speak to you for hours, but you've got stuff to do, I've got stuff to do. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast. No, it's a pleasure. I really enjoyed our chat and looking forward to having you on mine. Likewise. If this conversation resonated with you, don't just sit there, act on it. Make sure you follow or subscribe for more game-changing conversations and remember, the only thing standing between you and your business breakthrough is the decision to screw it and just do it.