How BOSH! Built a Global Food Brand by Starting With Content

0:00The aha moment came about because of Building your own business. We're very much about being a master of your own destiny. Imagine how many people are just bored working in corporate jobs. You know, we were very much those same people. The idea for Bosch came about because market forces can do more to change reality and to change people's behavior than government regulation can do. So at the time that Ian had gone vegan, I was thinking about, you know, how could I build a company that was pushing forward climate change, reducing CO2 in the atmosphere, Rather than try and build a food brand from day one, we decided let's build an audience.

0:37Let's start with social media and then we'll learn how we create a commercial entity around that. Guys, take me back to that very first screw it, just let's actually do it moment for Bosch. What pushed you from idea to action? I mean, we've known each other for ages and we'd actually worked together on a startup previously, which was a mobile messaging app. So we were already founders. And, you know, even just backtracking to that founder moment, I think that that previous business, the moment, you know, working in corporate environments, the moment that the aha moment came about because of not wanting to work for other people.

1:24And I was fed up using old fashioned tools and doing stuff I didn't care about. So I think like the motivations for going down the route of building your own business were very much about being a master of your own destiny, building something that you believe in, and the kind of freedom and engagement that would come with that. Imagine how many people are just bored walking in, you know, working in corporate jobs. And, you know, we were very much those same people. I think the idea for Bosch came about because Ian was trialling health kick and thinking about New Year, New Year, went vegetarian, then went vegan.

2:04And I was really passionate about climate change. And I wanted to build a company that was doing something towards climate change. I was frustrated at how little the government was doing about climate change. I'm a firm believer that market forces can do more to change reality and to change people's behavior than government regulation can do. So at the time that Ian had gone vegan, I was thinking about, you know, how could I build a company that was, you know, pushing forward climate change awareness or reducing CO2 in the atmosphere. And that light bulb moment came when I realized all of a sudden And actually, people could reduce their carbon footprint by eating more plant-based food.

2:46And I have a background in tech slash digital. Ian has a background in kind of trends, fashion and marketing. The obvious thing for us to do was to build a digital marketing first company to promote people eating more plant-based food. And it just so happens that at the time we realized we love food and we really know how to make videos and content. and there was a boom moment in videos and content. So rather than try and build a food brand from day one, we decided let's build an audience. Let's start with social media and then we'll learn iteratively how we create a commercial entity around that.

3:29And I had to work pretty hard to persuade Ian to join me on this quest. He was working on an idea for a cafe in Sheffield, but I finally convinced him and yeah we started filming videos the very next day yeah that's it that was May 2016 when we filmed our first batch of 20 recipe videos and the first one went live on the I think it was the 16th of June 2016 and within six weeks of us releasing our first video onto Facebook we had 100 ,000 people following us on our Facebook channel which was called Bosch and yeah people I think one of the main reasons why the videos that we were releasing resonated so well with people is because we were showing people how to get the most out of vegetables but not in a way that was too difficult for instance one of the in fact the first video that we ever released was a healthy sushi cake now it kind of ticked many boxes the healthy sushi cake because it looked really beautiful um it had a viral potential because it's something different but it was also very helpful because not everybody can roll sushi but everybody can layer ingredients in a creative way to create the same sort of thing just in a different shape so right from the off we were we were at the races yeah it's really interesting you know that that screw it let's do it moment um having been through it twice right this is the second company that I founded and it tends to take about nine to twelve months in my experience to get to that moment it tends to take about nine to twelve months of you're working your day job but you're working on an idea in the evenings and the weekends and what I've always done in that nine to twelve months is kind of work up the idea in presentation form and meet people that you know in the industry and talk about the idea with them they might be people that might be helpful or they might just be useful sounding boards but I think you need that kind of research period that research phase to give you all of the information to stress test the idea before you're ready to make the leap and jump in and maybe quit your job and go all in on that idea and what then tipped you over the edge into committing to doing the thing ultimately I think it was, we, I think part of it was getting Ian on board for me.

5:57So like when you've got somebody else to join you, that helps and it validates the idea, but it also means you can share the load. I think it's, in my opinion, having a co-founder is preferable to being a sole founder. Not everyone agrees with that, by the way, but because co-founders, picking a co-founder can be challenging as well. If you get the wrong one, that will be critical and it can be fatal for your business. But for me, finding a co-founder and then we did find somewhere to get a bit of loan capital. Not a lot, 20 grand. It's not like people talk about, you know, hundreds of thousands and millions.

6:34We got 20 grand to kick it off. So we built this business. But it was enough, right? It was enough to put that shoot together. And with that 20 grand, we hired some video producers and we shot 20 videos in my flat over a weekend. That was really the moment we were off to the races. And tell me, you said like 100 ,000 subscribers, right? In, I think you might have said six months. And I was just chatting with Daniel Priestley, who's been on this show a couple of times. And he was saying this new channel, you know, under his own name, 100 ,000 in, I think, 90 days or something. But he's already got a platform, right?

7:09He's been on the world's second biggest podcast, driver's CEO, a number of times. Which helps, right? But how the hell did you guys do it? How did you do that? Were you helped by the algorithm, isn't it? It was suggesting to other people, you're getting featured in different searches and stuff like that. I think that there is a skill to building on social. And it is partly about building a network of people who are going to help and share your content. So we had other channels that had already committed to share our content and help us grow. But it also helps to swim the tide. Facebook video was in a growth phase at that time so so that helped us but also as Ian says we were picking recipes and video concepts that were engineered to go viral that's right there was a couple of big bangers from that first tranche of recipes the first one the healthy sushi cake I think achieved three and a half million views um and yeah just to just to make sure you know yeah it was a hundred thousand in it was six weeks it was a hundred thousand in six weeks but um that was on Facebook it wasn't on YouTube and Facebook back in 2016 the mechanism for sharing was way easier than it is now so back in the day well it's almost 10 years ago now what would happen is I'm sure you can remember if you liked a piece of content that you were watching you would click share and it would share it to 350 people your entire network of friends the sharing economy now on social is way more difficult now there's a lot more sharing happening in closed groups or on WhatsApp groups.

8:40So it's a lot more difficult to go viral now. But I think we went viral because A, the content was really, really good. B, the network of sharers that we had developed were pretty mission aligned with us. We reached out to the likes of Animals Australia, Peter, Mercy for Animals, and they were all very keen on helping us grow because they were mission aligned as we were at that time too. What was maybe the boldest decision you made in that first year in business then? Didn't you move to London? Yeah. Ian moved to London. That was a big decision for Ian. There wasn't enough money to pay me. So I was working my day job.

9:25I was like doing a bit of consulting in the days. And then I was working on it evenings and weekends with Ian. So that was pretty, pretty chunky as far as a commitment goes. Exactly. lots of time spent that's for sure and if it had gone wrong if things had you know hadn't gone the way they'd gone what would have happened was there plan b was it scoot back to sheffield was it go again i don't we didn't even think about that honestly i think we were very confident and we built up uh kind of support where we had um people helping us i i don't think we were even considering what would happen if it didn't work out.

10:05But like I say, you know, there was not much cash in the business and very much bootstrapped for the first nine months. So you've just got to dial things down. You've got to, you know, Ian was being paid peanuts and I was being paid zero and you keep all of the profits in the business, which was basically nothing. And going at that pace, there isn't really a huge risk of failure because you're not, you know, what is there to fail? You just aren't getting paid anything and you might just decide to stop. But I suppose the moment when it became our concept was validated and we became a real business was probably when we started earning real money from books and also then brand partnerships.

10:45Yeah, I was going to say, so maybe break down when it comes to the actual structure of the business. Where does like different revenue streams? You must have quite a few then by the sound of it. Yeah, it's evolved over time. So at the beginning, we were very lifestyling in our shape and business. So it was me, Ian, a couple of video editors. And our revenue streams really were cookbooks and brand partnerships. So for anyone who doesn't know of brand partnerships is what all of these influencers are doing nowadays. We don't class ourselves as influencers, by the way. We are very much a food brand and we're the founders.

11:22But, you know, we work with other brands who make great food products that we believe in. And we show people how to cook with those products. So that was those two things really were our core revenue streams for the first few years. But then we launched food into supermarkets and that was always the plan. That was always our long term goal was to get food in store. and that has grown as a revenue stream over the last four years or so to now where it is by far and away the biggest slice of our revenue is food that we sell in store. Amazing, congrats and tell me or tell our viewers and listeners a little bit more about if they went into the local supermarket what could they find and what could they potentially find coming up, things like that i think that'd be great to get like the whole overview of the product range yeah so for us i mean look our core concept with boss was always let's create um we wanted to create the biggest video recipe channel for plant-based eating uh we wanted to create a best-selling cookbook we wanted to create the first plant-based tv show and we wanted to create a range of products in supermarkets and that we literally wrote that down in uh the google campus or the Hoxton Hotel in London.

12:36I can't remember which. It was one of those free workspaces. And we wrote down all of those goals and we've achieved every single one of them over the period we've been working, over the first five years, in fact. So the range of food in supermarkets, which is now very much the core part of our business, we let people cook our recipes on the weekend and we teach people how to cook recipes. But we're also time poor, right? People don't necessarily have time to cook. So for those people who maybe it's a weeknight, they don't have time to cook this big, big, long meal. They come to us and they can buy a meal from us.

13:10So we have these new meals launched in Tesco coming in more supermarkets very soon. They're all plant based, but they're all delicious. Right. There's so much. They're not they're not they don't have processed ingredients. They're low in salt. They're low in sugar. They are high in protein or source of protein. They're high in fiber, source of fiber, packed with plants. Basically, these meals are the same as if you cook the meal at home and put it in your freezer or your fridge. It's just like home cooking, affordably priced. So that's a big part of our range. We also do some kind of healthy pizzas, which take the same shape.

13:45And then possibly behind us on the video screen, you can see some of our seasonings. So these are things that make food taste delicious. they have nutritional yeast as a base where loads of spice blends use loads of salt and they're really actually quite unhealthy um ours use nutritional yeast instead and nutritional yeast is uh high in b vitamins high in folic acid it gives a lovely umami like cheesy taste to the seasoning and so that is an incredibly healthy seasoning which you can already buy our newt seasoning in sainsbury's and asda but we've got more seasonings dropping hopefully well definitely coming to more supermarkets near you soon.

14:29Sounds awesome. And when it comes to the reach of the business, are we UK focused? Are we Europe? Where are we right now as of end of 2025, Chups? With the retail products, it's strictly UK for now. We do have our eye on Europe and the States as well, but they're big nuts to crack. So what we want to do is really sort of solidify position here in the UK and then build out. We do have presence digitally all across the world, obviously via social media. In fact, our biggest audience is over in the United States. And we've sold books here, there and everywhere. We get them published over in Canada.

15:10The first book has had nine different languages. So we do have international presence, just not with our food that we sell in retail yet. Okay. And what are your thoughts on the States? I only asked I was just interviewing Rich Sutcliffe from Passenger Clothing. And he's literally scaled that to a£100 million business and is now off to go and build a music studio and make some music, right, and tell the founder's story. And I think he's still probably early to mid-40s, something like that. But he was saying only a couple of years ago they identified, they wanted to go into the States and spend a couple of million pounds building the team out.

15:49then Donald comes back in you know tariff war start with China and they're literally like this is just too volatile we're going to pull the plug we're going to we're just going to swallow the pill and we're just going to refocus double down on our efforts on different European countries instead so yeah interested to know your thoughts on that yeah so I think we've we've been through we are in the middle of a real scale-up moment um we'll have tripled our business twice in the last two years, which is very exciting. And, you know, we're not - Congratulations. That's awesome, man. Thank you. Yeah.

16:21We've got a few more gray hairs in the process, but it's great to see, you know, our concept being validated. And yeah, hopefully we're not far off eight figures in terms of sales. So, you know, very much in that scale up moment. And that's just UK focused. So for us, as Ian said, we think that the UK should be our core focus for the next couple of years. That said, we have some links into America that are really powerful. But we've heard this story from so many people that, you know, you need so much money to break into America. It's so hard to do. It's so fragmented. And so for us, you know, the U.S.

16:59will remain maybe one that we're keeping our eye on until we've really locked down the U.K. in the next couple of years. Culturally, America is quite different as well. On the surface, it looks similar, but there is nuances. There is differences over there. So we would really need to think about the stuff that we would want to take to the American market. For instance, the chilled ready meals that we have in Tesco at the moment, which are perfect for the UK market and actually would be perfect for European as well, might not translate as well in the States. So we'd need to give it some deep thought.

17:31But should we decide to go ahead and do it? You know, there is a, you know, what's our model? So our model looks a bit like freemium. it's start with media start with content put that out for free build an audience build awareness and then do product next as Ian said we've already got that ready-made audience in the states we've already sold a lot of cookbooks out there we do go out there and cook on tv quite frequently so there is a meaningful opportunity to go and do that over there and potentially in more territories but I think so many entrepreneurs run the risk of getting distracted yeah yeah focus and execution is so important and that's why we've just got the blinkers on right now to the UK and maybe a little bit of Europe if it finds its way to us yeah no no totally get that um what was like in the journey that you've gone on then so you know super scaling right now what was the moment in the past you know eight nine years where you thought this is actually bigger than what we thought it could be or have you always been there is no ceiling on our ambitions That one, the second one.

18:35We've always had confidence that this was going to work. It's taken longer than we initially planned, but we've kind of been a slow, steady pack horse, just growing slowly and steadily year on year. There's been a few pinch me moments, which, for instance, when the first book got number one bestselling status, I think that was a real pinch me moment because we'd hoped for the best and we had done all the work to try and get as many pre-orders as possible. But when you see it there and you're holding a copy of the Sunday Times and your name is at the top of the pile, that was a real pinch me. And then the second big pinch me moment I can remember is when we hosted a lot of our friends at the beginning of 2020 at the house that we were living at the time to go and watch the first episode of Living on the Veg, which is the TV show that we talked about just a while ago.

19:28That was another pinch me moment. but there's been a few. Yeah, and I think that you're probably a bit just distracted, as so many of your listeners will be, by how hard it is founding and running a business. And, you know, our manager used to call them podium moments, but you do need to, like, take a moment and take a breath and appreciate where you've got to once in a while. I don't think I've done that in the last two years. So I think maybe my next day I'll have it. It's a common one, right? I was chatting to Rowena Bird, you know, one of the one of the co-founders of Lush, you know, probably Paul's biggest success story.

20:03You know, like now I think she said one point one billion pounds, you know, business. And I was like, you know, you're coming up to 30 years in business. I said, I remember having a conversation with you during COVID where you were celebrating 25 years and you said you weren't doing anything to celebrate. I was like, what are we going to do for 30 years? And she's like, maybe we should do something this time. and I was like you don't know do you you're so focused on the next goal I think as an entrepreneur that it's it's on to the next thing but I do think it's important to to kind of recognize that do you know what it's funny I think there's there is some power right in in being quite chill to like use a like dumbed down expression you know I'll give you an example so um yesterday we had a couple of really good meetings and then I had a rejection email okay and can you guess what's stuck in my head of course right so two really good meetings and then one not so good email and I think that um a great place to be as a founder is being quite consistent and not going up with too much with the highs and not coming down too low with the lows and just generally having that quite level um mentality I think it's good for your uh your actual physiology and and your heart and your level of cortisol um so I think we probably a good thing that we don't get too hyped up and we're just like slow like i said before slow steady pack horses just constantly moving in one direction um and what was maybe the the hardest part of of turning bosch from two mates and you know some camera crew maybe into an actual business i mean you obviously talk about the funnel and you know creating that content and then um the community and then giving the community what they want ultimately right which is to actually be able to taste the products and read about them etc but yeah what's maybe some of the hardest things to actually turn that into an actual business guys I think that um I think it all gets it all gets a lot more there's a lot more to manage the minute you take on board investment so we've got some incredibly supportive shareholders and um they've been they've been wonderful you know we're really grateful to all of them but I think it just it just becomes an extra very big thing to manage when you've got these additional personalities.

22:20So I think probably that. They've both been a massive enabler for us to scale, but also an extra level of governance and conversations that you've just got to maintain. Yeah, probably that. The switch to co-manufacturers. Yeah, we moved our products. We used to license our products and now they're made by co-manufacturing. So that's quite a chunky change of business model that took us about two years to go through. But, you know, we've made it work. Yeah, we've ridden the wave. Cookbooks. First one became the UK's fastest selling debut cookbook of all time. Is that correct? That is correct. Sounds about right.

22:59Mad. What changed for you, like each of you personally at that moment? Oh, man. I think that there was a lot of press and a lot of noise. And I think the – it's interesting, that press, because you do a lot of TV. and like every time a book comes out there's tv there's radio and everything becomes very public and very visible which is like a new kind of pressure we never we didn't set this company up to be famous or to be on screen or any of that we set it up to build a food brand um so it's an interesting new level of pressure and visibility the minute you're uh cast into the spotlight like that that's it i think also the positive validation that came with releasing a cookbook that got best-seller status was um very satisfying because previously to having the cookbook um we were releasing a lot of recipes and we were getting a lot of good feedback saying oh this was a delicious chili or this is a wonderful pie but there's something different about validation when it comes to having a physical thing and um the being you know getting positive notoriety for the work that you do because you're passionate about the thing that you're doing the work for um is is really humbling and really really rewarding and it just throws more fuel on the fire yeah and we've not really talked too much about that but i think that for us this is a purpose-driven business and so as ian says it's like such such a beautiful thing when you see that people are cooking your food enjoying your food like 50 of our audience cook our meals once a month so we're having a kind of genuine real impact on people's lives and that audience is 3.7 million people across all the social media channels so that's a lot of people that are cooking our recipes on a regular basis so that's like that's incredibly important and valuable uh to us and we don't take that for granted um and so i think that that it was lovely to get that validation and that continues to be a motivator as we develop yeah i wanted to ask you about um a couple of tips on building community then but actually talk to me about what book number we're on now when next book is coming out let's do that first well we very recently have signed with a brand new publisher we're now with DK and we're really excited to be with them because the books that they make are just beautiful they're coffee table books they're things objects of desire things that you really want in your house and want in your hands.

25:32So we've done a brand new book with them. It's coming out on the 12th of February. It's called More Plants, 90 recipes that are all 30 minutes or less, packed full of plant points, lots of focus on protein. We've had a nutritionist in and genuinely it's, I would say the best book that we've done because what we've got is eight years worth of recipe writing that we've channeled into this book. And when we set out to write it, We knew that what we wanted to do is create something that would genuinely make people healthier. So, yeah, really proud of this book. It's book number eight. And fingers crossed as well.

26:11Yeah. And we're in a golden age of nutrition right now. I think that when, you know, 10 years ago, 15 years ago, people would say things like we know more about the surface of the moon than we know about human nutrition. And all of that has changed in the last five, 10 years. We know really what good eating looks like. We know what you should be doing to consume, what you should be consuming in order to give yourself the best chance of a long, healthy life, sustained energy, all of that stuff. But so much of it is shrouded in science. There's quite a lot of nonsense nutrition on Instagram. So actually, the challenge now is wading through the mistruths that you find online to the actual, like where the actual weight of the data lies.

26:58So our plan with our next few books is to take this like quite high level scientific view on what does the data tell us about nutrition on mass? There's never such a thing as right or wrong, but it's always like the best possible evidence is signposting us towards this being true, or at least being the closest thing we have to truth at the moment. And so we're trying to distill all of that into our next three books and give people recipes for eating well and living well, but in an accessible tone. So like pulling out of that scientific language and putting it into a more human language and then giving them recipes that enable them to eat that way.

27:37And that's the challenge, right, is that there's more information out there than there's ever been before. But I guess what you've created and positioned yourselves, you know, with that size of that community as thought leaders that you'd like to think that people are going to, you know, accept what you're telling them is, you know, good nutrition, whatever good nutrition looks like versus any number of people whose Instagram channels, they're getting put in front of them once they actually like one of those channels, right? Yeah. And I suppose like, the question is, it's what we're not trying to do is listen to us, not the other people, right?

28:14What we're actually trying to do is say, well, let's just use evidence. This is evidence based nutrition, right? What does the evidence tells us the evidence tells us that eating a diet that is completely plants, natural plants and unprocessed, or mostly plants, so it could be a Mediterranean diet, but that would be very high in plant foods. Those are the two diets that are going to help you sustain a long and healthy life the best. And what's the reason for that? Well, the reason for that is lots of different variety of phytonutrients. Those are these kind of like, lovely little chemicals that live inside different plants that do different good things to your body, like antioxidants, anti-inflammatories, etc.

28:56Nutrient density is high when you're eating a lot of plants, but you're also getting a lot of fiber, which is great. People are talking about 30 plants a week. You know, Tim Spector's all about that at the moment. There's, what's the other one, Hugh Fernand-Whittingstall, 30 plants a week. So, you know, it's not disputed that eating lots of different plant foods is a really good thing for your body. So we're trying to come at it from a, don't listen to us, let's look at the weight of evidence let's look at what the science tells us and then we'll give you the recipes and the formulas for you to integrate this into your own life however you wish and I think that's much more valuable than people saying this is the truth listen to me I say it is so that's that's generally the approach we're trying to take.

29:35It's interesting isn't it and I see it with like my my kids who you know teenagers and I don't ever remember seeing information like this when I was growing up with with protein being like like an obvious one you're seeing so many products where you know just the word protein is probably the biggest thing that's actually put on the branding of those products. And then, and I'm sure you've had this conversation many times over the years with regards to getting protein from meat versus, versus plant-based, maybe you can just drop something in there into the interview now around that subject, which could be pretty cool.

30:06Totally. I mean, I can talk about protein for hours. And so there's, there's two different ways of looking at protein and some people would say, well, we get enough protein in our diets and we don't need more protein. And on an epidemiological level, so that means on a population wide level, that's true, right? There isn't a need in the UK for people to eat lots more protein, generally. However, if you as a human want to give yourself the best chance of living as long as possible, and you know, prepare your body for old age, then it is good to maximize protein intake. so um because ultimately the new way of looking at muscle is as a protective organ that is going to protect you into old age it you know it effectively effectively uh deteriorates over time and you get older and you lose muscle and you gain fat and you become frail and often a fall is the thing that's going to be the downward spiral towards you uh passing away so um general optimization advice would be for anyone, male or female, at any age of life, old or young, to be doing resistance training, squats, jumps, step ups, could be running, just ultimately to be putting work through your legs, and to be having enough protein in your diet that you're giving yourself the best chance of building more muscle, or at least maintaining the muscle that you've got.

31:36So the new way of thinking about protein is that we want generally to get an optimum amount, which is more than the basic amount. Plant protein versus meat protein, both work. Leucine is the important amino acids. There's more leucine in meat, so you can eat slightly less meat and get more leucine. But then combining plant protein sources will give you the leucine that you want as well so both work well plants if you're eating protein from plants you're getting the added benefit of the fiber and the phytonutrients that we talked about before so really really strong case for plant protein being a really great way to go as long as you're combining your plant protein sources um so yeah that's that's our take on protein perfect uh you mentioned running there funny enough one of the one of the guys in my running club don't you if know him sam jones no meat disco yeah yeah oh yes of course yeah i thought he would yeah yeah he's one of the guys i don't know him by sam jones but i know him by no meat disco pretty memorable right um so so tell me um go back to one of my previous points so you by the way ian's a runner ian's busy i'm i'm a part-time runner but ian's running it running very long distances at the moment what are you running in um well this year i did the london marathon and did two ultra marathons both 50ks and then next year i've signed up for the so far i've got paris marathon in the calendar um henry and i both doing a half ironman but the big one that i've got booked in is london to brighton which is 100 kilometers so that's a long way yes that's a long way to run yeah it's a long that is savage yeah i've done i've done marathons i did i did new york and then i trained for london twice and got bloody injured twice so that's such a nuisance yeah to join the running club back in may to after like a year and a half injured and kind of building up to it so i've got the dubai half marathon in february is like a short-term target lovely we'll see where the body's at after that talking about running communities let's switch to food community so you've built one of like the most engaged and i think that's the key word here is engaged food communities online um what do you think maybe one or two things that people get wrong when they're trying to build a community and maybe or maybe the flip side is that what have you done right to actually build a community of, I think you said over 7 million across all your channels, right?

33:583.7 million. 3.7 million. 3.7. Yeah. So nearly four. Wow. I think the thing that we do very, very well is we provide constant value to people. We don't waste their time. And we, because time is obviously the most valuable resource that any of us have got. So the videos that we make and the recipes that we put out there, We try and make the videos just the perfect kind of time, the perfect length, right? Because if you have the video and it's too long, then you're wasting people's time. If you make the video too short, then you are rushing them. So you need to find that sweet spot. And I think the numbers that we generate, we generate a million views a day now across the social media channels that we do.

34:44I think we've found the sweet spot of what works and what people respond really well to and the value that they take. I mean, we've done, what, maybe 2 ,000 different recipes over the course of the eight years. That's an awful lot of value that we've given to people. A lot of inspiration, a lot of just different way of thinking about cooking with plants and making plant-based food truly delicious. So the main advice I would give someone who wants to build a community is give people what they really want. And what they want is things that will better their lives. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 100%. um when it comes to the ethics around no no meat um how have you managed to kind of balance your message whilst as you said you know making food fun making it accessible to as many people as possible and and not being preachy at all yeah i mean that's been a constant um constant work in progress for us like we both eat vegan we're vegan like that's that's just our lives right but But our audience is predominantly flexitarians.

35:48But there are a lot of people who are vegetarian or vegan or maybe pescatarian that follow us. But lots and lots of flexitarians. So for people who don't know what a flexitarian is, it's someone who's maybe actively reducing the amount of meat that they eat or kind of increasing the quality of it when they do. But they're also friendly towards the category of plant-based. They like it. They support it. that's our kind of core audience member and our core customer as well of our product and I think so I think for us it's really important to be aware that we're talking to everyone everyone's on their own journey just because Ian and I don't eat any meat doesn't mean that all of our followers choose that or will choose that or should choose that so I think we we try and be that easy route into tasting plants and making plants more fun and that involves being welcoming and accepting everybody whatever part of the journey of life they're on because we're all finding difficulties right like whether it's cost of living or health problems or you know allergies everyone's got their own difficult stuff and I think it's it's it's not that helpful um in our opinion to be pointing at somebody else and saying you should do this or you should do this actually it's better to just present people with options and um I guess try and lead by example as well yeah no I think you're right I think you're right um before I finish up with a little quickfire rounds um I want to ask you if you met yourselves the night before you launched Bosch what would you now say to yourselves don't do it that's a good question because essentially what we're looking we're talking to ourselves 10 years into the future I think if if I 30 year old me would look at 41 one-year-old me and go fair play mate I wouldn't be disappointed with where I am right now both in terms of what we've achieved with Bosch but also in terms of mindset of the attitude to health and fitness I mean back in the day we were you know drinking a lot of booze going out and imparting way too hard and all of that is gone now I think we're both a lot more sensible a lot more driven a lot more focused um and yeah i think 30 year old me would be proud of 41 year old me i that's actually i think this is just literally coming from some instagram video i saw but you know make decisions that your 13 year old self and your 80 year old self would be proud of yeah so when you're deciding how to act or how to behave or what to do in a moment think about those two perspectives the very young version of you and the much older version of you i think that we've done this, we've been building this and discovering what this is at the same time.