How Dan Murray-Serter Turned Burnout Into a £Multi-Million Health Brand

0:00My experience with burnout actually came from working really hard and not loving what I do. And I say that because I do believe in working really hard. I don't believe in work-life balance. I think there's just life. Live life your way. Doesn't have to be anyone's way. I probably work harder than most people. No judgment for people that work less than me. As long as we're all comfortable with it. It's my choice. I enjoy it. It's not a problem for me. I won't get burnout at all because I'm loving what I do. Today's bite-sized episode features Dan Murray-Surter, co-founder of Heights, the holistic health brand, I mean to reset how we think about mental and physical performance.

0:36If you're working super hard and it doesn't bring you any joy, you're likely to get burnout because you're working really hard at something that doesn't feel right. And you can feel that shift of energy inside. You know something's not right. And if you don't address it, it will create some change in you, some catalyst moment. And that is sometimes what burnout is. Welcome to this special bite-sized episode of Screw It, Just Do It from our back catalogue of over 550 past episodes. The thing is, it was always fun. okay because it's very young yeah we were like in our mid-20s we had like you know 50 people in shoreditch like you can't not have fun everyone was getting drunk all the time we're having a wicked time right i just didn't really feel like it was my life's purpose if that makes sense you know i didn't know that at the time but you get a sense of whether stuff feels right or wrong and actually to this exact point i went to an event at the hoxton hotel and a friend of mine was doing a presentation and he pulls up this thing and it says icky guy and uh and then he makes a joke saying my friend dan an icky guy and everyone laughed at me um but then he like proceeded to explain what was going on with icky guy you know what you're passionate about what you're good at like what makes you money what brings other people joy yada yada yada and as he's sitting there doing that i was like nope nope nope nope nope wow that's really insightful and that was the moment literally the moment that i was like wow i am really not doing what i meant to be doing and it just like hit me like a ton of bricks it was super interesting so i'll always remember that exact moment you can remember what you were feeling in that moment and totally the whole framework totally and again it's like these you know trigger moments that sort of happen in your life and you know change the sort of course there's an aspect of having the self-awareness at that time of your life to be open to receiving messages like that exactly perfect example i've sat in many other events in the past where someone's probably stuck an icky guy thing up in front of me and i've been just scrolling on my phone yeah yeah so you've got to be present and aware in that moment and things have to sort of collide for your attention but if those things do and it captures your attention and your awareness, then it can be a course correcting moment.

2:52And that is what happened for me. Amazing. And how do you go then from having that, you know, screw it, just do it moment, aha moment, whatever it is to then constructing this, a vision to build another company, but this health and wellness space. Well, okay. So just to answer your last question, which I realized I talked for ages and didn't even answer. I'm not a politician even. So my experience with burnout actually came from working really hard and not loving what I do. And I say that because I do believe in working really hard and I don't believe in work-life balance. I think there's just life.

3:40Agreed. And that you should just live life your way. Doesn't have to be anyone's way. I probably work harder than most people. No judgment for people that work less than me. As long as we're all comfortable with it. It's my choice. I enjoy it. It's not a problem for me. I won't get burnout at all because I'm loving what I do. But if you're working super hard on something that you really can't give a shit about and it doesn't bring you any joy, you're likely to get burnout because you're working really hard at something that doesn't feel right. And you can feel that shift of energy inside. You know something's not right.

4:14And if you don't address it, it will create some change in you some catalyst moment and that is sometimes what burnout is and so i went from you know lots of energy to pure apathy like pure apathy i just couldn't get out of bed and i stayed in bed for about two weeks and it felt actually do you know what i had covid really badly in um in the pandemic and um had it for about two months right at the start february um did you get on clubhouse at the time no that was a few months later um i was so ill i was at a hospital um yeah yeah yeah yeah friend like on a ventilator yeah yeah that was me i was on a ventilator yeah yeah yeah um so i was really ill and anyway the recovery period of you know the two months of just being so drained reminded me a lot of burnout it felt very it felt exactly the same kind of feeling which is like should we have the energy even like emails and we were basically two months into heights at that point i felt really bad for my co-founder because it was just him and me and no employees you and joel yeah and i yeah and i was like you know hospital and then just total drainage and he's like you know can you check this email can you do that i'm like i can't even read my emails mate i'm so sorry so very precarious timing anyway so there is a screw it just do it moment yeah um wow and was correct me if i'm wrong we love the timeline but um i listened to a lot about you talking in the episode you do with steven yeah i've received about the ayahuasca because i've got a friend who's been down that route around literally life transforming and your experience sounds very very similar very similar um so i think there's there's two separate things um i was going to tell you the just the screw it just do it moment or I can tell you the ayahuasca moment.

5:59The timeline's up to you. Oh, timeline's up to me. Interesting. Okay, now let's stay with the script. Just do it moment. Yeah, okay. So I see this icky guy thing and at that moment, I know what I'm not doing, what I'm meant to do, which is tricky because, you know, I have a co-founder. I have a business. We have employees. We have a runway and I know that things aren't right. and so i'm actually this is a perfect example as well of um on the outside everyone thinks you're doing incredibly well yeah and on the outside you sort of are but on the inside things are crumbling so in the space of the same two weeks this is what happens i see that it's then like some like London Tech Week thing or something.

6:49I'm doing like a keynote at Wired in between Google and Facebook. I was the middle one. Then I was doing some talk or event at Buckingham Palace. And then on the Thursday, we were doing the TechCrunch Europas. And I was so burnt out from feeling the stress of not being happy with what I was doing and having this sort of realization that the Europas, I didn't even go to. We were nominated for best mobile company in Europe. And then we won we beat depop um who were like the other like main darlings that everyone thought they were going to win and obviously ended up being a much better business than us um but it was us or them basically and we won and like i just wasn't there no one there to pick up the award no one there to pick up the award my friend my friend had to pick up the award and i was just at home drinking whiskey feeling really sorry for myself but then you get this weird moment where you won an award and you're like oh god this is just so cringy because i'm like can't even be grateful because I'm not happy.

7:46And then the following weekend, we were invited to, again, it's a perfect example of this world that just happens for you. Daniel Ek from Spotify puts on this conference every year called Brilliant Minds. And every year, it's 250 people invited to basically this palace and this castle. And then they take over this fairground in Sweden, in Stockholm. And it's crazy. And we were invited. So we went, obviously, and you're hanging out with these insane people. There's only 250 people there so it's like a super tight list everyone you meet is doing this crazy shit you're like wow i'm so inspired um so about the end of this weekend you know feeling really inspired but huge imposter syndrome because uh like not like we don't deserve to be there which was one side of it but just like not don't want to be there don't want to be there for this yeah yeah you know it doesn't feel right we actually were like let's extend and go away for a day to a random island, Archipelago, the correct term in Sweden, in like this.com.

8:48And we had a really honest founder conversation together of like, I'm not happy. Just you and Joel. Just me and Joel. I'm not happy. I don't think I'm doing the right thing. I don't think we should be doing this. And we ended up having like, you know, all day just a really honest and open conversation. And this like week period basically triggered, you know, the series of events of screw it, just do it. And we basically resolved, decided to go to our investors and say to them, we're not doing this anymore. This is how much money we've got in the bank account. We're going to give it back. And like, we'd love you to go and, you know, do what you want with that.

9:22And the crazy story that not many people know, but it's completely true is they actually said to us, hold on. We'd actually like you guys to keep the money. Recap. So basically, we can restructure the company to make it more incentivizing for you. But we want you to keep that money, let go of everyone, shut down the company, but start a new one in the same guise. I never knew that. No, it's rarely, rarely talks about. And, you know, obviously, I've got a lot of investors who are very familiar with the story because they've all been involved in it. Yeah. But in a crazy, crazy way, Heights is part of the same company that Grabble was.

10:02it's just a very very very long-winded pivot from basically saying wow i'm not living my purpose i'm not willing to do this anymore i don't care how successful this company is or where it can go i don't think it's a good business and i don't think that i'm right for it either and we got to wind everything all the way back down to zero we're given three months to basically decide to come up with a new business plan and explore what we want to do yeah um timing was crazy because i was basically getting married so i managed to get like an extra couple of weeks just be like guys kind of awkward but you know i'm about to get married so like we'll probably need a couple of weeks there not coming up with business plans yeah um and then we had three months from that moment to come up with something new pitch it i don't really have anything that clear at the time but we're like there's something in this space and you know in the background joel had experiences with gut health over like the last two years i'd had experiences with mental health over the last couple of years you know we had personal experiences that we felt were relatable and worth exploring um and we went back to them with this kind of pitch not for heights but for like we want to do something in this space okay and we don't know what that is yet but we're going to build an audience on the newsletter and we're going to start a newsletter and we're going to start lean just ask no employees won't spend any of the money but we're just going to see if we can build an audience and what we learn along the way and we're going to need you guys to be patient because rome isn't built in a day we don't know where it's going but you said you wanted to back us the three month part uh by the way was we'll decide if we want the money back then or we just rather you get on with it yeah and they were like you know what's interesting enough believe in you guys just try thanks for listening to that bite-sized episode with dan here are some key takeaways from me solve your own problem but make it meaningful for others doubt and comparison are part of the process you just got to learn to lean into them and that building a brand is as much about belief of identity and consistency as it is about product.

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