How Grenade Built a £200M Brand from a £500 Startup with Juliet Barratt

0:00I shouldn't really compare it to like Root Canal. It's almost like the anticipation, you know, the build up to it is worse than when it's actually done. Actually, the grenade name and the grenade shaped container was just perfect because it was like explosive and like a caffeine product that you could feel working had that explosive energy. So there was a perfect mix there. One of the things that made Grenade so successful is the fact that it looked different, but the product was good and people had an emotional connection with it. They really bought into the brand. They liked what we were doing.

0:29Alex Chisnall:Juliet Barrett, co-founder of Grenade, the global health and fitness brand that went from kitchen table startup to£200 million exit. When it came to the exit in 2021, I remember the week before that because it's such an emotional process. I mean, like Grenade was our baby. We'd worked our socks off on it for like 11 years and all the years before that almost thinking about all the work experience. Welcome to Screw It, Just Do It, the show for those who decided to screw it and just did it. I'm Alex Chisnell, host of this podcast and co-founder of the Festival of Entrepreneurs at the NEC in Birmingham this October 8th and 9th.

1:03Alex Chisnall:This is the podcast that brings you face-to-face with the entrepreneurs and business rebels who threw caution to the wind and built something extraordinary. Quick heads up, registration is now open for this year's Festival of Entrepreneurs. Join us at the NEC in Birmingham on October the 8th and 9th for two game-changing days with 200 plus speakers and thousands of ambitious founders. Get your free limited two-day pass at festivalofentrepreneurs.co.uk or click my personal link in the show notes. Juliette, welcome once again. Thank you. Lovely to talk to you again. You too. It's been a few years.

1:36Alex Chisnall:And in that time, you've sold Grenade for 200 million back in 2021. Question to kick things off would be, if you could go back in time and keep the business instead of selling it, dot, dot, dot, dot, dot, what would you do? If we could have gone back to where the business was in 2014 and not sold a majority, then yes, definitely. I think that was probably the biggest, and I don't regret anything, but that was the one thing that we did that in hindsight we probably wouldn't have done because that changed the direction all the way through. But yeah, definitely. I'm super proud. I love Grenade. I'm super proud of what we created.

2:16Yeah.

2:17Alex Chisnall:And so you should be. So you should be. And what did it feel like, like emotionally on that day that the deal was signed and, you know, everybody knows, yeah, you don't walk away with 200 million once you get investment, et cetera. But, but equally you walk away. What was the emotions on that day? Was it mixed? Yeah, definitely. I mean, a lot of people that have a business, you know, people that haven't got a business always say, you know, what's it like? They think it's about the money. But, you know, a lot of entrepreneurs and people that have founded a brand, actually, it's not about the money.

2:51And because we've had a couple of rounds of private equity in 2014 and 2017, you know, the sort of life changing aspirational purchases like the house, the cars or whatever, those had almost been done before. So when it came to the exit in 2021, I remember the week before that because it's such an emotional process I mean like grenade was our baby we'd like worked our socks off on it for like 11 years and all the years before that almost thinking about all the work experience and then the week before I was just sobbing for and I'm not like a crier you know I cry at stupid things but I'm like people that know me I'm like quite hard I suppose and sort of non-emotional um but I was just absolutely in bits for the week before because it was almost something that you'd worked so hard on for however many years that, you know, you put everything into it was suddenly not going to be yours.

3:44And it was so different from just having private equity investment because you were still involved. But this was a sale of your baby, like a trade sale to that end user. And, you know, I was I was just in bits. And the actual deal, I remember having to go to my lawyer's house at like half one in the morning to sign the paperwork. because it always goes to the wire. And then when it was actually done, I guess it's a bit, I shouldn't really compare it to like Root Canal. It's almost like the anticipation, you know, the build up to it is worse than when it's actually done because I'm quite a sort of black and white person.

4:20It's almost like, oh, well, it's done now and that's it. You know, you can't do anything about it.

4:25Alex Chisnall:And what was, so going to, it's interesting, we're going to your lawyers at like half one in the morning. Did you get a call from him and you're kind of like, then you're suddenly like hang on a minute is this not going to happen we know it's always like they were backwards and forwards and you never know it's done until it's actually done but yeah I had to go and sign some paperwork and like his wife obviously didn't know that I was going around so like half one in the morning some random person turns up with their dog you know and like she's like oh like this but I guess you know John had been doing our deals for however many years so we know each other quite well and then you just sort of drive home and you go to bed and it was only like the next morning that it was, oh yeah, the deal's done, you know, congratulations.

5:04But a couple of days later, John actually phoned me and he said, Jules, have you looked at your bank account? Have you got the money? Because I hadn't even looked because that was so unimportant. You know, it just wasn't about that figure in the bank account. Whereas on the first couple of deals, then, you know, that was really exciting.

5:22Alex Chisnall:Yeah. It's interesting. And I always remember this one. And I always remember chatting to Richard Reid saying that, you know, when they sold Innocent and he said he literally got home and he was literally just like, yes, you know, like$500 million or whatever between the four founders. And his wife literally handed him a bookend. And he said, before I knew it, I'm stood in a queue in Ikea getting like a£14.99 refund on a bloody bookend on a piece of Ikea furniture. And he was like, well, that was pretty grounding. Yeah. Yeah, but money shouldn't change people. And just because you might have a few quid in the bank doesn't make you better than anyone else.

6:01And I think it all depends on the sort of person you are. Like I've always been one of these people that will do absolutely anything from like emptying the bins to driving a Ford lift. And I think if you're that sort of person, you're always going to be that sort of person. I think if you're a knob, then you're always going to be a knob.

6:17Alex Chisnall:Yeah, yeah, without doubt. And look, to rewind a little bit, and I'll kind of come back there, but you launched, we're talking about, you know, beforehand about opportunities come out of, you know, interesting situations, shall we say. You launched Grenade during a recession with, I believe, something like£500. Was there a screw it, just do it moment in there that literally started it all for you? I mean, I'm a big, you know, I'm a get shit done type of girl. So, you know, as an entrepreneur, there is never a right time. There's only the right time for you. So some people might say that launching in a recession is completely, you know, a stupid thing to do.

6:55But for us, actually, it was the only time that we could do it. There was a gap in the market. We could see that. And I think, you know, that's your sort of that's your moment that you're talking about when you just think, well, if I don't do it now, when am I going to do it? So we'd sold the distribution business before. So, you know, we had a few weeks off. We got a bit bored and thought, you know what, we need to get back and we want to do something. and that's when we launched Grenade. And because we've had all the experience before with the distribution business, we knew what sold, what didn't sell and we knew what the product was going to look like.

7:27And we were just raring to go. But actually, you know, in a recession, people haven't got the money to go out. But the one thing that they do want to do is look good and feel good about themselves. So they spend all their money at the gym. So actually going to the gym and, you know, doing a weight loss supplement, you know, a caffeine-based product was probably perfect timing for us because people were really investing in what they looked like.

7:49Alex Chisnall:Yeah. And for those who don't know, what were you and Al doing before Grenade started? And how long were you talking about the business before you launched it, as you kind of alluded to before? We didn't literally just start it, you know, on that day in 2009, I think. No. And people always say, oh, you know, what did you do? Like the start date. But actually it's like the 15, 20 years work experience before that that gets you to that point. so we had a distribution business selling other people's products to gyms and health clubs so we knew what sold what didn't sell and everything was coming over from the us everything was very scientific names and there was nothing that we wanted a global brand we wanted something that consumers would know what it was called doesn't matter what language they speak by the look and feel of that product hence the grenade shaped container and something that really did stand out on the shelf i was going to say we certainly nailed that didn't you yeah and also i think you You know, it sounds a bit creepy, but there should always be a bit of a founder's personality in the products.

8:48So, you know, we weren't boring, white tub type of people. You know, we wanted something that really stood out, that was distinctive, that had energy, that, you know, had a bit of personality to it. And, you know, I think that's one of the things that made Grenade so successful is the fact that it looked different, but the product was good. And people had an emotional connection with it. They really bought into the brand. They liked what we were doing.

9:09Alex Chisnall:and so that was you know just to reiterate it that was like super intentional from you from the very start that the branding was going to be bold and it was going to be different to what everything else was looking like on the shelves yeah definitely and you know we struggled to start off with with coming up with a name and I think that's one thing that brands always do they sit down they think right they go through all the names and realize someone else has trademarked it but actually the grenade name and the grenade shape container was just perfect because it was like explosive and like a caffeine product that you could feel working had that explosive energy so there was a perfect mix there and i'm always interested to know this i think i've asked you this one before and a couple of times we've chatted before but at what point did you think this isn't just a product anymore it is a brand like at what point does that kind of cross over and you realize you've built something that kind of resonates you know globally and it's not just something sat on a shelf that that somebody like a supermarket could do their their own version of that you know i mean there was nothing in our products that were unique you know none of the ingredients there were magic ingredients everyone had access to them so i think initially we wanted to be like the red bull of sports nutrition so we wanted one product that really stood out but because it was in a grenade shaped container some people thought that it was a bit gimmicky and to actually build a credible brand, we needed more than one product.

10:32So I think you can easily have a brand on one product, but to have a credible brand, you probably need more products in the range to make consumers buy it, if that makes sense. So we always wanted a global brand. We never talked about, I want a global product. It was always, we want a global brand.

10:48Alex Chisnall:Okay. Okay. And what do you think you got right early on that helped you in what was, and even more so now, I guess, such a competitive space? I mean, it's difficult because when we set this up, we wanted to be like a sort of distribution business where we sold it to other people and we could do it from wherever we were in the world. And then we realised when it was sat with two distributors and we were in Florida and it wasn't selling, we thought, shit, we better get back to the UK and make it work. So that's when we started to do everything. So there was never one thing that we did that really tipped it over the edge, but I think it was doing everything and doing everything to the best of our ability.

11:28So when we launched, we were really happy with a product. I'd say like high 90s, you're never going to be a hundred percent. The grenade branding was spot on from day one. You know, we checked everything that went out, the artwork, the tone of voice, you know, we made sure that we always had that tongue in cheek, but we were never offensive. So we were like really on it with a detail. And I think that's key. So that everything we did, people knew that that was Grenade and they bought into it. So, you know, when we went to the shows and we took a team of athletes, they were all spot on with their branding.

12:00They all look right. They all were passionate about the product. So it was just that attention to detail, really.

12:05Alex Chisnall:I like that. And early on, how did you, I mean, as with any startup at the beginning, you're, you're literally working multiple roles and you're wearing many different hats, but at what stage did you kind of separate out your roles between you and Al or was it kind of pretty obvious because you'd been together for a while? Yeah I mean to be honest with you we always have very separate roles in the business but we're always completely aligned so my passion is like marketing and branding ours is you know the MPD and the sales so there was that natural split you know I think if we were trying to do the same thing like if I wanted to do the sales we would have like killed each other because you're just stepping on each other's toes but we had complete trust in what the other one was doing.

12:48I think we were doing everything from like invoices to driving a forklift to, you know, emptying the bins. We were doing everything to start off with. And when we had that first round of private equity in 2014, that's when they made us put in an FD because Al and I were doing all the numbers. And to be honest, we didn't give a shit about the numbers. You know, we weren't tracking sales or anything like that. You know, we were on it with what the products were costing and making sure that we were making money. But, you know, we just wanted to sell the brand you know we didn't want to do a forecast or a spreadsheet or all this so i think you know with having investment they made us probably be a bit more professional with

13:24Alex Chisnall:the numbers that's interesting so how so at that point how many years had you been trading like four or five years before yeah that was sort of four four years so we've been selling internationally since 2011 so that was sort of like three years into the journey of international really but we still only had the sports nutrition products so this was all pre-carb killer so we had like pre-workout so it was very much like a sports nutrition brand I mean don't get me wrong it sounds like you know we weren't focused on the numbers but you know we were on it but I always say to the brands I were with if you start focusing on the numbers you can make some really bad decisions so if you're desperate for sales you start doing offers and promos and giveaways and before you know it your RIP has gone right down and you know it's a race to the bottom so it sounds like for you it was definitely you know that that big picture is as you kind of mentioned before to to have that international brand and you know like like a Red Bull etc you were that was always like the north star that you were you were moving towards you weren't getting kind of uber focused like you say necessarily on on on the numbers or the sales but you know that would come if you kind of focus yeah definitely okay yeah definitely and I think that because everything was very organic you know bearing in mind this was just as social media was starting you know we didn't pay anyone to promote products it wasn't like today where you've got to do all the sponsored ads and all the google adwords and you know you get your tiktok influences and whatever it wasn't like that was a lot more organic so we spent absolutely nothing on marketing so our first trade show in 2010 which over tank into the nec i think it cost us like 500 quid and al and i stood there with like two pull-up ballads going oh shit what are we doing and you had other supplement brands there that had like team from like Eastern Europe on there building their stands it must have cost them thousands but we couldn't play in that park and everything we did was very raw very organic and almost free if that makes sense yeah yeah I would love it if you drove a tank into the NEC in October when we've got this event on you know yeah I think they would probably kick off now I think we got away with it then because it was so unique and you know I remember we did this campaign in London we drove a tank through the streets of London we didn't have any permissions or anything drove on marble arch but because people love the brands you know we had the the met police coming up saying oh yeah yeah can I have a sample and you know it was just genuinely good fun because people love the brand I don't know whether we'd get away with it now to be honest I remember I remember was that the one I remember seeing like James Haskell was on there as well in the tank and stuff yeah I think that was maybe the year afterwards or whatever but we did a couple And that was like where we did, you know, a campaign on there.

15:59We had the banners and, but everything's a bit too political now. So I think if we march through London with people with placards and a tank, might raise a few eyebrows. Yeah, true. The world has changed again, isn't it?

16:11Alex Chisnall:Not necessarily for the good. And was there like one break, like, was it a retailer? Was it a campaign that kind of really accelerated the growth for you? Or was it that private equity coming on board and changing things up? Yeah, I mean, to be honest with you, having private equity, we took cash out. You know, it wasn't cash in the business to make it grow. We were really sort of self-generating. So they were great guys. They didn't actually add that much value to the business other than putting an FD in there, Tom, who's now the CEO. So that was obviously a great hire. but you know with regard to I think I know that this might sound like I'm sort of not taking any credit for what we achieve but I just think it was right time right brand right place so you know the protein market was growing people were wanting to look better to be fitter people wanted healthier protein-based snacks and obviously you know the change for the business was going from a sports nutrition specialist sort of manufacturer to a food manufacturer which was the launch of carb killer which was like a high protein low sugar protein bar because that well chocolate bar really because that made us a food brand and that made us a lot more appealing and accessible to to more people I was going to say funny enough you said it just before me but chocolate bar and I was going to say was was that um one of the main reasons that that that Mondelez kind of came came on your radar or were interested they've bought Cadbury's about a decade before maybe something like that yeah yeah definitely I mean you know I think that it takes some of these big brands so long with their R &D you know they have to go through so many different processes it's much easier for them just to buy a brand um and you know when we had a failed process in 2019 where similar people were interested and again by 2021 a lot of the other protein bar brands out there had already been bought um grenade was one of the only ones that was still privately owned at that point so it just made perfect sense for them to buy them and obviously it was a category leader you know we were smashing it on amazon and you know sales were going through the roof so you know it was when alan and i set out in 2010 we said we wanted to sell to cadbury's so selling to their owners was it just felt like the right home i bet it did i bet it did um and like you say timing is often really important and something that you have no control over, but you believe that was a key factor.

18:43Alex Chisnall:I mean, and as you said, like you've got social media starting and growing, you've got the pandemic and the kind of move to direct to consumer as well. Yeah, I mean, it was timing as in, you know, protein was becoming more normalised. It was timing because the look, people were getting fitter. So, you know, athleisure wear was growing and everyone was like living in gym wear and like living in the gym obviously people weren't going out drinking as much so they were going to the gym instead so all that helped we were really the first protein bar that launched in the uk that tasted like a chocolate bar as opposed to a protein bar because the i know it sounds a bit stupid but the two are very different so we went to a chocolate manufacturer and got them to innovate with protein so you know people didn't want to eat something that tasted like a brick but they did want to eat a healthier chocolate bar yeah they used to taste It was like crap, didn't it?

19:34Alex Chisnall:I can remember buying them. It was just like horrendous. Yeah. But I remember like at some board meeting, we were getting the other bars out to try and like, we left one open on the desk and it was still the same consistency, like two, three months later. It was just like, it's just awful. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. What was the toughest period for you during the Grenade journey? Was there a time that you ever felt like walking away or was there always a reason to get out of bed and keep focused? oh definitely i mean we never felt like walking away don't get me wrong there were challenges you know the sale processes in 2014 and 2017 even though they should be great are horrendous especially the 2014 one because obviously it was al and i i think and a couple of team members so everything is on you all the questions come to you the warehouse in coventry was getting broken into so like we were sleeping there watching sons of anarchy trying to protect our business um and you know it's like someone picking holes on your i mean i haven't got kids but someone picking holes in your babies to say like your child's ugly your child's fat your child's not very good at this why did you raise it like this and you take it all really personally so and you're trying to run the business so i do think those are really really challenging times watching sons of anarchy while sleeping at the warehouse bloody hell yeah but you would do you You know, you would do anything to protect your business.

20:56And I think, you know, we had staff there that were really good and were so passionate about it. So one of them, I remember, built this, like, home alone security system with, like, you know, the forklift with, like, bits of wood up against, like, the shutter doors and stuff. And, like, you are all in it together. I think the 2017 process was easier because we had a bigger team then and, like, we had a finance team, so obviously they could take some of that burden off you. But it's still tough being questioned about your choices.

21:23Alex Chisnall:Yeah. um talking about choices you you alluded at the start like if you could go back to um 2014 you potentially would um can you tell us a little bit more about that then and at that time you know what were you looking um what were you looking to do with the business how did that deal kind of manufacture and how did it how did it kind of end up when you kind of 10 years in the rear view maybe yeah i mean like i said you know the guys that invested which growth point capital they're super nice guys we you know we're still friends now um it was inbound so they came to us we didn't have carb killer then so we really just had the sports nutrition products so um thermodetonator we had a pre-workout that we might have had a creatinine protein but we were very much a sports nutrition specialist brand so we hadn't experienced all this very rapid growth that we did with carb killer later on and i think we were quite flattered to be honest with you um we had caffeine in all of bad products.

22:20And there was talk at that time by the MHRA that caffeine was going to be banned in Europe. And we did actually think, oh shit, you know, if they ban caffeine, then that is our brand going overnight. So, you know, GrowPoint only did majority investments at that time. We were probably a bit naive. So we took that. We de-risked a little bit, but then it was like pressing the reset button and going again. But like I said, selling that majority, it really did change the direction of the business moving forward because it was all on their terms yeah

22:50Alex Chisnall:okay um and what does the the kind of graph look like for you when it comes to like the the sale and and the revenue in the business like when you when you're starting out um as you said like you know 2010 compared to like 2021 you know what point did did things start really moving was it post 2014 or yeah just because of carp killer i think carp killer i hate the word game changer but it really was um so that was 2015 i think we launched that at a trade show and again that made us a food brand so we already had distribution in tesco's and some of the other retailers like holland and barrett but we were really a sports brand but after that we could go into morrison's we could go into marks and spencer's you know we sold internationally because it was much more I was going to say much more of an easier sell then, but that's not very good English.

23:42It was an easier sell because people consume protein bars more regularly than they did a thermodetilator, which lasted for a month. So, you know, people were buying a box of bars and getting through them in like a week and then buying another box of bars. So that was definitely the game changer for us.

23:58Alex Chisnall:If you're enjoying this conversation and thinking, I need to be around more people like this, then I've got the perfect solution for you. The Festival of Entrepreneurs is where 5 ,000 to 10 ,000 ambitious entrepreneurs come together to learn from the people who've actually done it. It's on October the 8th and 9th at the NEC in Birmingham, and I'm giving my listeners free two-day passes. Real entrepreneurs, real stories, real strategies, exactly like what you're hearing right now, but live and in person. Go to festivalofentrepreneurs.co.uk and get your free two-day pass before they're gone. Okay, post exit then, what does success mean to you now in what you're doing?

24:38Okay, I always find this a fascinating question because I genuinely don't think I've been successful. I think I've been quite lucky. We've worked quite hard. And, you know, success for me isn't about the money. You know, I'm going to sound like I don't give a shit about that, to be honest with you. I haven't changed as a person. You know, I've got people saying you haven't changed since the day I met you. And that's the biggest compliment to me. But I think success for me is I only now do things that I want to do. So, you know, when you're starting out on a job and you think, oh, shit, I've got to get up at four o 'clock on a Saturday morning to go and do this.

25:14And, you know, when you're building a business, you do it all because you want to do it because it's your business and you want to send it. But I remember getting up at one o 'clock in the morning to drive to a born survivor, you know, like Tough Mudder type events in the Lake District. So I had to leave early and then I had to drive back the same day. I was absolutely knackered. You know, I was like necking coffee and grenade captures just keep me awake on the way home. And, you know, these business trips that you don't want to go on because you just need to do stuff in the office. But you do all of that because you have to do it.

25:43now I'm in that really privileged position and I'm so grateful for it where I genuinely do things that

25:49Alex Chisnall:I want to do yeah it's that time freedom isn't it that uh this very aspirational to do and to be able to to have that choice um yeah that that's the holy grail I think so that's that and I always find it interesting when I want to when I do speak to people you know like yourself and you and again it's not an uncommon thing that you don't see yourself as successful because you Again, you say, you know, luck played a part, timing played a part. I always do find that really, really interesting that you don't see that. Because obviously, anytime anybody invites you to speak at something or on a podcast or you get invited to stuff, their opinion is obviously that you have been successful.