Most Founders Are Getting AI Completely Wrong

0:00Alex Chisnall:What stops founders from building something meaningful isn't the lack of ideas, it's the fear of getting started. I'm Alex Chisnall and this is Screw It, Just Do It, a podcast for people who are ready to stop waiting, take action and make things happen. What made you realise that you needed to act like now rather than wait? I realized when I started seeing all these AI things coming about I realized hold on I can play the same game as these big players that have massive teams and do all of that I can build a business the same size AI amplifies everything it's kind of like I always say it's like putting petrol on a fire just everything goes up if your foundations aren't solid first it kind of amplifies chaos one of the biggest bottlenecks for people is like the customer journey normally Sarah will get back to them.

0:49Usually within about 24 hours. Okay, well, we want to get that down to a minute. By the end of this year, you know, we're going to be in a completely different position. People that don't adapt now and start grasping a knowledge of it and start getting their head around it. The gap between where technology is and where you are is just getting bigger and bigger and bigger. And there's going to become a point where it's like, I have no idea what anyone's talking about.

1:13Alex Chisnall:Before we get into today's conversation, this is genuinely relevant for a lot of founders listening. Are you running a business that pays supplies abroad, receives international payments, or operates across borders? World First helps founders manage global payments and FX more efficiently with access to competitive exchange rates and tools designed specifically for growing businesses. World First have given us an exclusive offer for podcast listeners to get 50 transactions completely fee-free for 60 days. Head to worldfirst.com forward slash screw it to create a free account and claim now. Now let's jump into the main conversation.

1:50Alex Chisnall:Carly, AI feels like one of those rare moments where everything's shifting really, really quickly. I want to rewind to before you stepped into this space. What were you doing just before you moved into AI? So just before I moved into AI, I've been a coach for like 12 years and I was teaching people how to create digital courses and turn their knowledge and their skills into digital courses. And then through that, I realized that people were really getting stuck at the tech. I really understand it and something really clicks with me, but everyone that I was teaching was really getting stuck. And so I decided to create my own software, which enabled me to give them everything that I'd learned over the 12 years of doing this so that they could fast track that kind of tech piece and then they could just focus on you know adding the value and delivering whatever it is that they wanted to do and getting their courses launched um as soon as possible so that's what I was doing right before that the bit right before that though makes no sense um I was actually a professional dancer in uh West End musicals which you know it doesn't really make sense that I'm now in AI but I was I was talking about this the other day and I think the reason why this the AI world seems to click for me so well I always say it's a random progression from dancing to AI but I think it's actually because I would be in an audition and I would be watching a dance routine and then I have to pick it up within 30 seconds and then within 30 seconds it's embedded in my body and I have to perform it and I think that's why I'm really clicking with AI because it's moving so quickly and I've just kind of learned that skill of seeing something I can visually see it and then that's why I'm able to pick up so much so even though it feels like a bit of a random progression I think that's where the link is.

3:42Alex Chisnall:Interesting and that must have taught you lots of lessons that you've been able to implement as an entrepreneur. A hundred percent I credit all my success to my dance career because it taught me so much resilience you know I'd go to an audition I'd get a no and then I'd go to another one then I'd get a no and I'd be going to 20, 30, 40, 50 auditions are getting no, no, no, no, no all the time. And then finally, you land that big job and you're on the Palladium in the West End. And you're like, yes, it was so worth it. And I think if I hadn't have learned those lessons in resilience, I would have found entrepreneurship much harder.

4:20Because being really honest, that is entrepreneurship in a nutshell, isn't it? It's just kind of keep getting back up, keep getting back up. When someone's slamming a door in your face you keep you keep going and that resilience the discipline the working when no one's watching you know and when you're getting no results you were just practicing and practicing and honing your craft and that's what it really taught me I think doing all the work when no one's watching for those two minutes on stage where everyone's watching um and I think sometimes we can get so caught up in showing everyone everything and always you just forget about the things when the door's closed and it's night time and you're sitting on your sofa working um I think that's

5:05Alex Chisnall:really where the businesses are built yeah we're talking a little bit off air saying my daughter's been a dancer since she was four and now she's like you know 19 and you you don't want to kind of lay a pressure on on on people but you know what you said you know is one of the things that I've mentioned a few times is that, you know, everybody else who's a dancer is doing the work that you see in the studio, right? But what are the, and it's the same whether you're a basketball player, an American footballer, a rugby player, right? What are you doing when you're not in the studio, when you're not on the training field, that when you see the, you know, the Cristiano Ronaldo's, the Lionel Messi's of this world, etc.

5:44Alex Chisnall:in that sphere, how have they got to where where they are and it's not I've always said it's not necessarily the most talented people that that last the pace right it's those who put the work in at the end of the day and as you've rightly said it's the work that people don't see 100 % I literally as a kid I'd be sitting in splits with my foot up on a chair watching telly so that I could get the I could get the most flexible I could possibly be and that's how I'd sit and then I'd sit and eat my dinner and I'd have my foot up on a chair and that's what it was all the time there was never I was just obsessed with it and I think again that comes into entrepreneurship as well you have to be obsessed with it you have to be so laser focused and so passionate about where it is that you're going and there's no other option there was no other option for me and I actually ended up getting injured which was what ended my career and that was a real tough time it was a really tough time because there was never a plan b um and so i think that served me well though even though it was it was tough when it all came crumbling down um it served me well that there was i burnt the boat around me there was no other option so you had no plan b no safety net no plan b i actually um i mean that was a rocky it was a rocky road that that two years after that you know my whole identity was tied to being a west end dancer and that was who I was if I met someone they'd say what do you do and I'd say I'm in the west end and that felt amazing and then suddenly someone would say what do you do and I'd say I work in the pub because that's all I knew outside of that and that that was a real tricky transition time to try and figure out who am I if I'm not a dancer and I think that again comes back to entrepreneurship like we can tie our identities to so many parts of our journey and actually I think entrepreneurship is about shifting your identity and expanding your identity all the time um but yeah that time I that was an experimental time for me I started a business called Carly Can Make That where I taught myself how to sew and I made clothes that I would make clothes for people I um I started this that was crazy when I'm saying it I started a taxi driving business so I'd drive my friends to the airport and uh I would do airport runs I was doing all sorts of stuff wow yeah what a variety yeah variety I know I actually ended up then working for Apple and I became a business specialist for Apple and that was my kind of entry point I see.

8:19Alex Chisnall:I see. Right. And I often thought that with with ex, you know, athletes, professionals as well as like when you you read about them and often the way they they their biography will be will be read out or written will be like, you know, ex professional rugby player, ex professional football player. And I thought I've often thought, how does that affect your identity and that transition to go from something you've trained all your life to to whatever you're transitioning into? right and and for you did you have an idea at that time or were you thinking of you know what per who is the person that I want to become next because as you say your identity was so wrapped up in being a dancer on the west end how did you then formulate the person that you you've become yeah I think it was a really interesting time because I think I kind of let the entire identity go for a really long time I'm talking like 10 years I wouldn't even mention that I was a dancer, partly because it kind of felt quite painful to think of that time that I'd left behind.

9:21But I think I in my head, I thought, well, that is completely gone. And I have to completely reinvent myself. And how I wanted to reinvent myself was, you know, I really love teaching people. I think that comes with being a dancer as well. You're always teaching people. And I really love teaching people, loved helping people. I loved really seeing a light in someone and bringing it out of them that brings me so much fulfillment um and it's only really in the last I think honestly in the last like two years that I bought that part of me back and I realized how it links with what I do now and I thought that is that is I am still that person I am still the dancer I can't dance like I used to and I'm definitely not sitting with my foot up on a chair doing splits at 38 but um I am still that person and the lessons that I look a lot that I learned in that time have made me who I am today.

10:14So I've kind of merged the two identities now, but it, there was definitely no clear path. I just, the thing that I did, I think my advice to anyone who's feeling in that place of, you know, I get this a lot with people wanting to transition, maybe from one role to another, or one business to another. My advice is to lean into what feels good. And don't get out of your head and stop thinking logically about what should I do? I think a lot of people are thinking this in the AI space as well. They're like, I want to get into AI. What should I do? What's the most profitable route to go? And I think actually the best way of transitioning is to think, let me try stuff.

10:54Let me see what feels good. What lights me up? Because ultimately this entrepreneur journey is rough if you don't feel good. You know, if something isn't aligned with your values and what actually lights you up and what you enjoy, it's going to be a really rough journey. So I think that's the kind of litmus test that I gave myself. What feels good? What makes me feel energized? What makes me so excited when I'm waking up in the morning? What makes me excited when I'm going to sleep at night and my brain's buzzing? I think that's always a good place to go from.

11:25Alex Chisnall:That's one of my favorite phrases you mentioned there as well. For me, it's always, again, leaning into what lights you up because we're only here for a finite time, right and if you're doing something that you hate or you dislike not even that you hate right but something that's just meandering along and you're not passionate about you're clearly passionate about about dancing right and and if you're not as we've talked about before it's it's a pretty cutthroat space to be in right a lot of comparison etc um do you what do you miss from that world out of interest is there anything that you miss from that world um i i miss my favorite thing ever would be being on stage and getting the giggles and not being able to giggle I know that's so stupid there's I don't work with anyone now you know I work with clients and you know it's all very professional and I don't have a team that I've got that kind of camaraderie and I'm bouncing off and you just get hysterical sometimes and I think sometimes it can be quite lonely when you're when you're building your business so I miss being around those people and just you know having those laughs and things like that I think when you work from home all the energy is on you to bring to bring and I think that's probably what I miss the most really is the kind of you know the banter and you've had a you've had a tough day and someone does something stupid and gives you a giggle and yeah I think that's what I miss.

12:44Alex Chisnall:No I get that for sure and what made you realize especially as I alluded to at the beginning how quickly this this space is moving and I mentioned to you the previous conversation I'd had with with Roy Samuel from Connected you know whose um business has gone from like two people to 250 in in like five years and I said you know what's been the biggest um you know movement in the growth of your business and he went AI and that's been in the last 12 months um given how quickly things are moving what made you realize that you needed to act like now rather than wait further um I think the biggest thing for me is I just really saw the opportunity so I'm a mum of two I've got a six-year-old and a four-year-old and I have huge ambitions huge goals there's you know my brain didn't stop when I had kids everything that I wanted to achieve I've always been an overachiever and I realized when I started seeing all these AI things coming about I realized hold on I can play the same game as these big players that have massive teams and do all of that I can build a business the same size and I can be just as profitable if not more and I can really do so much as a team of one or as a team of two.

13:59And I think that's where I really started to get excited about it because I thought this has levelled the playing field for everyone now and we can all do incredible things. We're seeing people now building billion-dollar businesses with a team of one and that's what excites me because it means that an ambitious... It just happens, doesn't it?

14:17Alex Chisnall:Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And it means that an ambitious mum like myself, and I work with a lot of men, women, absolutely everyone. But it means that for me, I can still be present with all my kids. I can still do the school pick up. I can still do the school drop off, but I can still tick that box of the ambition that I've got inside of me. And that's the thing that really excited me about it. Was there anything that stopped you from nearly going all in on it? There was definitely a moment of overwhelm where it was moving faster than I could keep up. And it still is now. I think there was a point where I thought I wanted to position myself as an AI expert and I know everything about AI.

15:03And then I quickly realized I'm never going to know everything about AI. This is moving so quick. And so there was definitely a moment there of thinking this is wild. Like I understand it very well, but this is moving really, really quick. So, yeah, that's probably the moment where I thought, hold on, I don't know. I don't know if I can keep up with this. But I kind of shifted then to, instead of being an AI expert and thinking that I have to know everything about AI, I realized that the biggest problem that business owners have right now is the same as where I was, it was the overwhelm, it was thinking there is so much going on, I don't even understand where to go, where to look, how do I even do this.

15:42So what I really focus on now is offering clarity, so that I can say, look, here's all this noise. Here's all this mess. There is so much going on. Let me bring this down a bit and help simplify this so that you can at least understand where we're at and ultimately understand how you can implement AI and automation. Because I think not everyone needs everything. There's a lot of shiny stuff out there. And I think it can be really easy to just slap stuff on your business and say, yeah, I'm doing it. I've got AI. you know there's a little bit of that pressure isn't there there is when you're talking amongst business owners and saying how are you using it and I think people sometimes want to tick that box and say yeah we're using it um and I think the the main thing that I focus on now is offering that clarity and again that's where my my dancing comes in because I don't have a technical background so in order for me to understand AI I have to take the complex turn it into something simple and then that's how I understand it in my head so when I explain it to other business owners I'm never using tech jargon I'm not using all the fancy words a lot of the time I'm explaining it in a story or an analogy and something like that and I think that's what works really well for me and I think that's how people need to hear it I see a lot of other AI experts that are they they want to sound smart and I'm not no desire to sound smart I just really want to help people understand it.

17:09Alex Chisnall:And most founders, right, don't have the time to learn that technical side of things. And I'm speaking as a business owner myself, they want to explain to them in terms that they can grasp. Where do you think most founders are getting it wrong with AI right now? So I see the biggest mistake I see founders make is a lot of them are focusing on tools instead of infrastructure. And they're seeing all these things pop up and they think that's so cool. well, I think that would be a really good tool for us. And they're kind of matching the tool to the problem instead of first thinking, what is it that we actually need?

17:45What is it that we, you know, is really holding up time, is really, you know, draining our resources and then finding the infrastructures to help that. I think what can happen is if you chuck a load of tools into your system, not all of them speak together and then you kind of create more problems and more work for yourselves and your team are just very overwhelmed with a lot of stuff. So I think another thing that I see a lot is that AI amplifies everything. It's kind of like I always say, it's like putting petrol on a fire. Just everything goes up. And if your foundations aren't solid first, it kind of amplifies chaos.

18:26So I actually take my founders through a process. The first step is simplify. And that's where we strip back all the tech, anything that's overlapping, anything that's not working anymore. A lot of people are using tech and systems that they have used right from the beginning. And they've now scaled up to, you know, 500k, a million, 2 million, and they're still using the same systems. So first of all, we look at everything like that, we strip everything back and we say, how can we simplify your tech stack? The second step is that then we automate. So then we look at all the core processes in the business and see how can we automate as many of those as possible before we start even looking at AI.

19:06And then the third step is amplify. And that's when we start looking at AI and saying, okay, now we've got this solid engine that's built. Now we know that if we chuck petrol on this, and if we throw a load of leads in the mix, is the system going to break? Now that we know that it's not going to, then we can start looking at AI. And really, we're just looking at AI from a place of how can we save time how can we cut costs and how can we increase revenue and i think a lot of the time people are looking at these big ai implementations but when we do our audits for our clients the report that we give breaks it down into like an opportunity quadrant so we look at quick wins big swings nice to haves and deprioritize and those quick wins those tiny little things are actually what can sometimes have the biggest impact um because they're focused on problems first they're focused on the things that aren't broken that are broken and what are the

20:02Alex Chisnall:bottlenecks and what could be like some of those quick wins that you've you've seen that people could implement as businesses a lot of the time one of the biggest bottlenecks for people is like the customer journey so I'll say to a founder where are your where are your leads coming from so say okay well they cut they come in through um LinkedIn okay cool then what happens well then they fill out a form on the website okay cool then what happens well then um normally Sarah will get back to them okay well how long is sarah taking to get back to them usually within about 24 hours okay we want to get that down to a minute sarah needs to be getting back to these people within a minute normally people then are like no way sarah can't do that but that's the perfect opportunity to add in some kind of automation ai whether it's an ai chatbot voice agent whatever it is um that means that the speed to lead is increased then we say what's that next step and we break it down literally step by step and there will be little bottlenecks in this process that can massively increase the conversions of someone coming in.

21:01And it's a tiny little step in that process. So those are the quick wins that we're looking at. Where can we plug the leaky buckets that are happening throughout one core process? And then we move on to the next process and then the next. So when we're looking at implementation, especially with the quick wins, we're looking at stacking those little leaky buckets. We're not looking at completely overhauling an entire process.

21:27Alex Chisnall:and where we are right now right what happens to founders do you think who who don't adapt over the next year to i mean two years sounds like miles away right but it's not this year has already flown by right no honestly two years is but by the end of this year you know we're going to be in a completely different position so i think what's going to happen is the people that don't adapt now and start grasping a knowledge of it and start getting their head around it the gap between where technology is and where you are is just getting bigger and bigger and bigger and there's going to become a point where it's like I I have no idea what anyone's talking about and I think what's going to happen is that then these much smaller businesses are going to start taking over the people that you thought weren't even your competition they're going to start taking over because they have a real unique advantage in the fact that they can be super agile.

22:23They don't have a load of leadership team that they need to move through. Decisions can happen overnight. Someone can have a burst of inspiration. And in the next morning, it's implemented.

22:32Alex Chisnall:And what do you think is, in your experience, is working now versus what is actual hype? You know, what's working commercially when it comes to AI out there? Yeah, so I see what's really working right now is building agents within the business. So using things like Claude Cowork, using things like OpenClaw. OpenClaw is a bit more of a learning curve. You'd want someone internally that is spending a lot of time on it. um using creating agents that have access to multiple applications across your business and they can all talk so with open floor for example you can have it set up so that in slack or in telegram all your agents are talking to each other there's whole conversations going on and that you could you can watch it but you're not actually physically a part of and they are executing tasks all across your computer i think that's what's working really well instead of having lots of different tools and saying, okay, now I'm going to hop over here and I'm just going to fire off this one.

23:36Now I'm going to hop over here and just fire off this one. I think the smartest ones are actually the agents that are working internally.

23:45Alex Chisnall:And interested to know, like yourself, you've leaned into like visibility. You know, you could do a great job obviously being the face of your brand, given that the background that you've had, how intentional has that been? and how much like internal resistance did you have there or did you like fully embrace that from the get-go? Yeah, I mean, I've been building a personal brand now for like 12 years, but that's my whole focus for this entire year. I really intentionally at the end of last year decided that this year is going to be all about building my profile, building my brand and putting myself out there.

24:21And the beautiful thing about creating a brand today is that we've kind of come full circle with it. for a while it was all about heavily edited content everything was very polished everything was very professional and what I see from my own data now and what we're seeing across the board is that the most natural the most raw and authentic content is actually the best so what I teach all of my students now is get content out sit in the car you've just finished the school run sit in the car you don't need a full face of makeup on you don't need to be looking you know with this all fancy lighting background and share something that's on your mind maybe you've just listened to a podcast and you've got a thought about what you just heard and share your thought about it and I think that's actually a beautiful place that we're in right now because the content that's really winning is true authentic thoughts it's not overproduced it's not over polished and I'm

25:20Alex Chisnall:excited about where it's going to be honest yeah no me too actually I had a thought this week and And I had a kind of last year, I've got my Festival of Entrepreneurs hat on now. And last year was like first event. And it was at the NEC and we had, you know, two and a half thousand entrepreneurs come, which is amazing. But, you know, again, you have a wish list of what you want to accomplish, right? With any business and didn't accomplish X, Y, and Z. And I wanted them to like, you know, document what we were building, you know, literally starting a brand new event business. And I was chatting to a good friend of mine who's been on here, I think seven or eight times now, Piers Linney, who's also now you know in the ai space with his business and he was like i think you're you're doing the right thing well everybody's zigging you're zagging people are craving connection again you know and anything you can do to to bring people together for real-time connections is a great thing and i wanted to kind of document that and i think i literally got around to do maybe you know four or five you know live streams on linkedin and instagram but now i'm like this week i'm like you know what i don't have to be in a podcast studio i i literally want to be documenting stuff on a daily basis like i've just had this amazing conversation with one of our speakers at the event and then just talk about you know a summarize summarization of what i've just talked about with that speaker or saying you know this is the bottleneck you know right now we've just landed this amazing new sponsor or and i just saw exactly what you said it could be doing that and always take inspiration from um daniel priestly who's been a previous guest on the show and I just think he explains things in such an easy, digestible way.

26:53Alex Chisnall:And he's just, you know, talking as he's walking back from the shops or he's in his car. And I'm like, do you know what? You know, you're 100 % right. He's 100 % right. Don't overthink it. Literally just open the phone, press the red button, and have a conversation, right? I do honestly think, though, anyone that has an opportunity to be in a room with people, spending some time when you're out of the office and just connecting with people. It is, that's been, I've noticed such a shift in my business in the last two years since I've really prioritized connecting with people. And also you've prioritized self-learning, right?

27:32Alex Chisnall:As well. And yeah, that is not the battle, but that is one of the challenges we have with the Festival Entrepreneurs is like, how can we get founders of businesses going, doing from between half a million and 10 million to take a day out of the office or two days out of the office to come. But you're like, for me, it's, yes, it's, it's amazing to, to listen and learn from people who've been there and done it. Like last year, you know, founders of, you know, billion pound brands like, you know, Ted Baker, Lush, et cetera. But it's the people that you meet, as you've just alluded to, and the connections that you make off the back of it, and the opportunities that come off the back of those connections, right, that is worth you taking those couple of days out of your business so what i would say to anyone listening as soon as they the doors open book your ticket and don't think i'm just going to wait until i see how it is i see i'll wait till november and see see what the business is like book the ticket because it is such an important decision and you need to have that accountability to get you out of your office and get you to these events so that would be my advice get the ticket booked in asap that's not even a plug i'm not even doing it for that no no exactly like having those things in the calendar that get you out is really important otherwise you'll never leave you'll never do it no i agree and i i'm always somebody who puts something in like every other month so you've got something to look forward to and something to like grow towards right or otherwise you need it for your energy right yeah yeah energy gets stagnant your inspiration gets stale and you need that boost of energy i think when you're running your own business you can't rely on just waking up one day and feeling great you need to have that external motivation that's going to get you going and that's going to carry you through for the next few months until your next event and I think it's exactly it's so important and so you got invited to Necker Island um I did and then I had to pull out because I had a load of speaking gigs that I'd already committed to there is that was painful that was a painful decision i didn't want to let people down that i'd already committed to um and i was in dallas and i was speaking over there but um yeah i had to just mute instagram for that week i was like i bet and i saw loads of people like daniel albara i was seeing all these people i knew out there and i was just like feeling the foam and i worked for richard for like 20 years so oh wow yeah yeah virgin atlantic and then virgin startup after that so um yeah yeah serious FOMO.

30:06Alex Chisnall:Okay, we've reached that moment for quickfire rounds. Okay. Not so good with the quick fires, by the way, I'm going to probably go off on a tangent, you'll be like, you're giving us a paragraph. I'd be interested to get your take on this one as well, given the space you're in. What do you think we could be doing in the UK to encourage more scale up businesses? is? I think helping people understand that the opportunity is so much bigger than the UK. And I think, you know, I've got a global business and I work with clients all over the world. And although it's very easy to look at where we are at, our business is here.

30:46And so this is where we look. But there is so much opportunity to build, you know, a digital business and go much more global so a lot of my clients are actually in the US and so I don't really feel too much of an impact apart from when I get my tax bill um about being in the UK um so that's what I would say I would think how can you stretch your business geographically yeah and how can you broaden where you are that's that's that's what I think that's where the opportunity is right now it's not necessarily in the UK but I think you can still build an incredible business from here if you if you look wider than that.

31:21Alex Chisnall:Maybe one takeaway could be what's one thing a founder could implement this week that would make a real difference in their business? I would say

31:35okay so there's two things so for the founder I'm always looking to see how I can get a founder out of the day-to-day of a business a lot of people in that kind of 500k to 5 million the founder is still very much a part of the day-to-day and for a founder I'd be looking at how can we remove so much communication that has to go through you or that you have to sign off or that you're even aware of so looking at how you can add layers before that so that you're not hearing the noise as a founder that's something that I did in my own business I put things in place and I built agents and I have other team members who take care of stuff so I'm not even hearing most of it and that really helps with the noise and helps me helps me move out so as a founder I would be saying you know how can you look at emails and things like that that aren't even touching you as a business I would 100 % be looking at your speed to lead and saying how can we make sure that any lead that's coming in they're getting responded to within a minute that's probably the the biggest impact that a lot of business owners have um and that means that you can have as many leads coming in and your your customer journey isn't going to get slowed down if it's all reliant on Sally calling back when she's got back from my lunch break

32:48Alex Chisnall:yeah it's just reminding my best friend's business and um he was like sharing the data on the conversion if somebody answers you know in that first you know couple of minutes hour and And I'm just having a conversation with him. And he's like, so-and-so, you know, Sally literally sent you those illustrations. And I was like, no, I asked him on Monday and now it's Friday. And it's just like, I've been busy doing X, Y, and Z. And it's like, that's not the most important thing you should be doing in the business. If this is going to, you know, affect revenue, it's got to be the most important thing you're doing in the business, right?

33:25Alex Chisnall:It's automating that. Indeed. What else was going to ask you? What role should AI play for founders attending the Festival of Entrepreneurs? Those businesses that are, again, doing between, say, half a million and 10 million are coming to learn, to take something away from, say, listening to you speak at the Festival of Entrepreneurs. What's one big takeaway that you could share? I think the two things that founders should be looking at right now and how they should be utilizing AI is to, first of all, to grow their personal brand and to be amplifying them as a founder. That's huge. I think every single founder should be focusing on that right now.

34:05So that's definitely where I should, I would be looking. And the second one is how can you get removed from your business? You know, if you want to exit one day, you can't be a part of that. And I think most people think about that too late. it's their baby and they want to be a part of it and they love you know feeling like that business needs them but as soon as you can get to the point where the business doesn't need you that's really where you're going to get the freedom that you want and so those are the two kind of angles I'd