The Rocking Chair Test That Changed Everything

0:00What stops founders from building something meaningful isn't the lack of ideas, it's the fear of getting started. I'm Alex Chisnell, and this is Screw It, Just Do It, a podcast for people who are ready to stop waiting, take action, and make things happen. While everyone else was asleep on the bus, I was kind of bolted up right thinking about my life and what I needed to do to make changes. At the start of this bus journey, an American traveller kind of sat next to me, just on my left, asked me what I did. I explained I wasn't too happy with my job. And he basically said something that changed my life.

0:30He said, well, if you're not happy, you should do the rocking chair test, which is essentially to sitting in your rocking chair at the age of 90 and think about what's your legacy in the world, who you've helped. I saw a homeless person with a cardboard sign saying, change please. And then a few days later, I went to a Banksy exhibition where Banksy's got a bit of street art with a homeless person saying, keep your coins, I want change. And that was it. I just, for the first time, I realised the double meaning behind the terms change please that we all hear.

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1:42Now let's jump into the main conversation. I understand you came up with the idea originally for the business whilst on a trip to Vietnam. Can you tell me a little bit more about what happened and how you came across the idea? Yeah, sure. So I used to work in the city. I had a bit of a third life crisis when I turned 29. My partner, she was traveling around Asia. I just joined to Vietnam on one of those stops. We jumped on a bus going up through Ho Chi Minh City, up through the center of Vietnam. And at the start of this bus journey, an American traveler kind of sat next to me, just on my left.

2:22And he asked me what I did. I explained I wasn't too happy with my job. and he basically said something that changed my life he said well if you're not happy you should uh do the rocking chair test which is essentially to imagine sitting in your rocking chair at the age of 90 and think about what's your legacy in the world who you've helped have you left the world in a better place who's going to remember you and and for why and that was a pretty profound moment at the kind of uh the start of a 18-hour bus journey 30 minutes in and I was listening to all those questions and said my god no no no i have not done anything that's actually going to make a significant difference if i died tomorrow no one's going to remember me there's no actual i've not left the world in a better place you know so that really struck struck me hard and uh while everyone else was asleep on the bus i was kind of bulked up right thinking about my life and what i need to do to make changes um so then a couple of weeks later we were we went to a place in Vietnam called Hoi An it's kind of in the center uh east and on the last day there they we stumbled across this kind of silent tea house which essentially was a tea house that was run by deaf and mute ladies who had no other opportunities in their in their village and all either deaf deaf or mute and they got together and created this really incredible space and the only rule in that space is is that you're just silent and it was full of tourists and it was just silent and I just thought my god this is incredible kind of you know you're able to do business and good at the same time and in 29 years at that time I just thought that was a completely alien thought to me it was all about previously about accumulating assets making money um investments you know pension what am I going to do my retirement all that kind of thing and so uh I left and I said well right I'm going to set up a silent tea house in Clapham um when I get back to England and then I kind of five minutes later thought this is going to fail I hate Clapham I don't like tea and I and I don't really like silence this isn't really the start of a good business um and then uh so I still really started to think about my connection to any beneficiary groups I used to rent my properties to people that were um to councils and then they used to rent the properties themselves sublet them to people that were homeless in emergency accommodation and I thought inadvertently I'm already renting to people that are homeless if I could find a way of giving them a job at the same time then this is one small step to kind of reducing homelessness and that's where the idea came from instead of tea it was coffee and we came back to London I saw a homeless person with a cardboard sign saying change please and then a few days later I went to a Banksy exhibition where Banksy's got a bit of street art with a homeless person sitting on the street saying with a handout saying keep your coins i want change and that was it i just for the first time i realized the double meaning behind the the terms change please that we all hear yeah people are homeless in the streets asking us when they're asking us for money but they're also asking us for change potentially you know in society so i decided to to call it change please and uh i started the journey so i wanted to let you know about something that i see trip founders up all the time if you're running a business with international payments, one of the biggest hidden costs is often foreign exchange.

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6:25Now back to the podcast. And just talk me through sort of timeline. So what year was that and how long are we since that initial moment in Vietnam? So that initial moment was on the 24th of April, 2014. Sorry, 2013. Apologies. So that was now exactly four years ago. And I joined the School of Social Entrepreneurs. And that was in February 2014. And then we opened our first social enterprise with Old Spike Roastery, which is in Peckham. in October 2014, and we launched Change Please in partnership with The Big Issue in November 2015. So it's been four years since that original idea, and now it's just come up to the second anniversary, second birthday of the Change Please launch.

7:30Okay, and taking that back to the original part of the story, if you were now in the rocking chair, how much happier would you feel that you're actually making a change or indeed have made change i mean this is completely incomparable i mean the the most amazing thing that's happened in this journey is from having an idea which is something that you just sketch out on paper and then actually seeing the idea come to life but that could come to life in any kind of form of business you know you could set up a website you could sell your first product but in our case seeing somebody i didn't have any experience of homelessness or know anybody really that was living on the streets you know um so i didn't really know all of the areas that we would need to make a change to their life but actually seeing how the sale of coffee in our case is making a difference to someone getting their keys for the first time for their new flat or to being paid the living wage or to get their bank account all those issues which they're struggling with all coming about through the sale of coffee just was such an incredible moment so therefore for me being able to look back now and saying actually firstly this model's worked in that first instance but we're growing at such a speed that it's making on a day-by-day basis a real difference to people's lives and that you know if i now if that rate of growth continues you know i'm 34 now just turned 34 you know but if that rate of growth continues and we spread across the uk like we're doing to the us to australia and so on and so forth that real difference it's going to make to people's lives internationally who are homeless just through the sale of coffee could be a massive um a massive thing which you know personally when i look back at the age of 90 in my rocking chair would be something that i'm proud of if i look back today if it all ended today then I'd still be very very proud just probably a little bit more tired than uh than when I first started oh that's awesome here because I know you know far too often and speak to so many people we're all striving um to plan to plan out the next year plan out the next three years the five years and it you know actually taking time out to review what you've done and and actually give yourself a pat on the back and celebrate that you've got this far is so far so few people actually do that that it's it's nice to hear yeah i think uh it's one of the biggest challenges that i face personally instead of just completely living my life by my diary and having new meetings and new opportunities and new rates of growth you know that we um that all kind of opportunities that coming into our inbox you know taking a step back and just actually acknowledging what's happened is really important because just for your own mental health and your own ability to kind of refocus and being a bit more mindful um about your current situation and what you've actually achieved which then helps to give you the energy to kind of jump onto the next phase this year has just felt completely like it's just been um kind of almost a bit of a snowball where you you don't really you don't really have a chance to look back and i think that's something i really want to improve next year and just look back at how each month or each couple of weeks what we've achieved what we've done and take and appreciate take a moment to really appreciate what's what's happened so that's it for today's bite-sized episode of screw it just do it make sure you follow or subscribe for more game-changing conversations and remember the only thing standing between you and your business breakthrough is the decision to screw it and just do it