711 - The State of Pitching

25:12So either you're sending it ahead of time or afterwards, that's also a pitch deck and it's confusing that they're using it for both. Have you done that for any of the things you pitched for? No, I don't think I've ever sent over materials that wasn't a script. But yes, so the interesting thing about migrating to Zoom is that in an ideal world, it's more entertaining for people because you have things, pictures to look at. And the funny thing was back in the day, and John and I can discuss later who did this, but I've had people fall asleep. I've sold a lot of pitches, but I've had people like fully sack out while I was talking to them, especially if it was three o 'clock.

25:50The contemporary version of that is people looking at their phones while you're talking. and it's like I just feel like if you could put your phone here you know up eye level or just look at the thing on your screen so that you can because it's a little harder to clock the eyeballs but the full look down and then we were pitching something that we're producing and the gentleman that we were talking to was vaping which I don't think you would do if someone was in the room I don't know that you'd like you're ripping it with a vape yeah and then And later I said to him, hey, I feel like it was a little disconcerting.

26:30And he said, oh, is my camera on? So it's good to know if you're, I would say in general, it's good to know when your camera's on. Learn to look for is the icon. I have always pitched a lot. I have sold a lot more pitches than specs. I don't know why. I'm not like a huge performer. I don't go in there and do something fancy. But I think there's something about talking through the idea and about going with the vibe of the person that you're talking to. to. And, you know, a great deck that you're using as you're talking kind of takes the onus off of you to be as sort of word perfect, like you can.

27:07And I have learned, which I didn't know as I produced more things, some writers have been told to read and they read. Reading in a room probably works better than reading on Zoom, which is a rough. Yeah. So let's talk through some pitch deck source. So let's talk about the pitch deck that's for when you're on a Zoom. That pitch deck, maybe it could be five slides. It could be - It'll probably be like this. It'll be like, here's the idea, bang. Here's four comps, bang. Here are the characters. Here's the pilot. That I try and do as fast as I humanly can because it's that always is like, and then here's where the series is going.

27:50And so for each of those, it's so easy now to find these images that go with you can carry the tone. Absolutely. So we've recommended on previous episodes, Shot Deck is a really good utility for finding images from movies and TV shows you can search for and find things that match your style. Images that you're showing while you're giving a pitch on Zoom, those slides should not have text on them, basically. You don't want people reading what's on your own thing. It's an image that... Unless there's a joke. Yes. But if it reflects what you're saying, so they're paying attention to your words that are being spoken rather than what's on the screen.

28:25In terms of reading, yes, you should not be looking down to read. The hack that everyone I think now does is you actually have your text right up very close to the camera. So you're actually just scrolling and reading off of that. And so you're keeping eye contact. I mean, I think, you know, we pitched with writers before who were very, very nervous and they can turn everybody off. So they're not looking at their faces. And you didn't have that option when you went in person. And a lot of weirder things happened in person. And you couldn't find them. They were busy and kept you waiting. Something weird was going on in the office.

29:00People were sacking out. People were eating. People were, you know, like, and more inappropriate things. Now I was younger, but also people, I've told this story before about going into a room largely pregnant and an executive said to me, I guess today would be a bad day to punch you in the stomach. I don't think he would have said that on a Zoom. Like, I think Zooms are sort of like you have a sense that almost like you're being recorded or it's on a record. So I think you build real relationships when you went in person. You do. And there's executives who I've been on 10 Zooms with as we've pitched like various places.

29:39So it's a piece of IP that we're pitching at various places. And I still don't really know them. But if I traveled into a room to a company with them and sort of doing the chit-chat in the lobby, I'd feel like I knew them better. But when I finally do see them at a Christmas party, it's like, oh, wow, you're nothing like what I expected. Yeah, no, their shape is always there. But one of the things that's really given me the giggles is, so Zoom boxes, right? So everybody's face is nicely framed up. And in the beginning, people were like, you had their dirty socks in the back or like a murdery window or whatever.

30:11But people got that under control. Okay. Then they moved to a thing where they would have their whole team. So like the whole comedy team, the whole drama team, and they put a camera. Have you done this? Up on the wall at the worst. They put a camera high up in the, it's always high, high. Yeah. So that you see everyone. What happens is then the Zoom box is very small. So then you're pitching to three ants on a sofa and you can't see their faces. You have no idea. If Zoom box, you can really see how it's going. Yeah, absolutely. A wide shot, a super wide from a high angle of a sofa. And we once had a Zoom with a management company and they had like 16 people and the camera was up there.

30:54And so there were people sort of introducing themselves looking backwards. No, go to separate offices. This is the solution. Yes, I know the owl, yes. Yeah, so the owl is a good solution for that. I'll talk about this in the future. I think that's a wonderful thing. But let's talk now instead about the kind of depth that is a sales document for your show that is independent from what the actual Zoom presentation is. Yeah. And so this is something that is really common in one-hour series development. I did it for a project that will hopefully set up soon. So it's a separate from your pitch. Yes.

31:25And so I'm going to show you an example of it. A lookbook? A lookbook. Oh, yeah. A lookbook is a similar thing. Yeah. So I can't tell you what this one is. Right. I'm looking at it, right. This one is an example of, you know... You send this to them. Well, directors do this a lot. Yeah. So what this, this actually has a lot of text, unlike a slide deck that you're showing during the Zoom. Sure. So this is a thing that's meant to be read. A brochure. It's a very nicely done brochure. In this case, like the company hired, the studio hired me to write this and hired a designer to design it. It was a whole thing.

31:58So that as we were approaching people with the script and this, they can see like, this is the script. This is what the thing, the show feels like. That's right. And that was very useful. Yes, that's very useful when you're sending in a script. Because right now, I think sending cold scripts, it's really helpful to have something like that, which is a lookbook or tone book, basically, that goes with it because people are now used to these pitch decks. So let's talk about what's in this thing, which is very typical for these kind of decks you're turning in with something. First, it starts with a note from the creator, the show creator, the person behind it.

32:34Like, this is why it matters to me. This is why I want to do this. And also the why now at all, like this is why it's a show to make in 2026. A bit about the history of the project. If there's any IP underneath it, that's where you talk about sort of how many units it sold, what a big deal it is. And then you get into the characters. And this is a chance where you actually can show like your sample image of like this, the kind of actor who would be in this role and stuff about them. So you're going through your main characters, your supporting characters, giving a sense of how everybody connects.

33:05the big themes of your show, what are the tensions? And so Crazy as a Girlfriend, you can imagine that deck would be talking about who is Rachel's true love and sort of like what this is, but also this is a show that's about the absurdity of that question and sort of the tropes of that question. And then you go through your season one overview, notable events in it, future seasons, and then a closing statement. So this thing I did for this project was 30 big pages of this with big images. But it's very useful. Well, this is also a show to your boss item. Yes, for sure. Because when someone says, hey, John August, I read a script and it comes to the book and da-da-da.

33:53And then if that guy doesn't want to read the script even, he's got a thing to look at. It depends on what the show is. And we say show because it's not really a thing you do for movies at this point. I wouldn't be surprised if down the road we get to this for movies. I mean, we pitch our movies, we always have a deck, but we don't have a book. Yeah. As a director, you do. As a director, you do, or a reel. But I will say, you know, one of the reasons I think you need to do this, John, is because when we were coming up, it was like, is it Suddenly Susan? Is it a cop show? Is it a, like, there were sort of such well-worn grooves to what things were.

34:26And so many of the successes now are so out of the box. Yeah. You know, that Stranger Things is as much about the vibe as it is about the story. So I think because everything is much more bespoke and sui generis. And yeah. You know, that it makes more sense. You got to tell people what it is. Stranger Things had a great depth too. I remember when that sold, yeah. And so we can probably find a link to that. It's online. It's online. And so you can look up that and it gives you a sense of like what is going to be unique and special about that show. And so there's, art probably was a script already for people to look at, but like the script tells you what's happening in the pilot.

35:02It doesn't give you a sense of what the show is meant to feel like overall. Let's answer a listener question. I want to start with this one, which is an epic one, but I think probably will resonate with a lot of our listeners. My name is Sam and I live in LA. I'm 34, a father of a two-month-old, and I almost applied for the USC Screenwriting MFA. I've been writing for 10 years now. I've queried and networked. I've applied to the mailroom at every major agency and every entry-level job at every major studio. nothing. I'm not looking for a big spec sale. I'm not completely delusional. I'm not even looking to get repped.

35:35I'm just looking to get my foot in the door as an assistant and eventually get an opportunity to be a writer's assistant and eventually maybe get staff done and so on and so on. So I want to start at the bottom and pay my dues. I don't have a formal education in the business, so I need to learn. I'm told AI is replacing writer's assistant jobs in TV, so I'm not optimistic about that route. And other assistant jobs seem impossible to get if you don't know someone. I assume you guys find your assistants via word of mouth, but I'm curious, would you ever take a flyer on someone who isn't already in an assistant?

36:07All signs point to no. I almost applied for the MFA at USC. I figured I could get some formal training and network at the same time. But at$100 ,000, this feels like an insane choice to make, given how I now have a child's education to pay for. I'm thinking about paying an Etsy witch to give me my big break. that feels like it would be just as helpful as everything else I've been doing. I understand that this business sucks right now, but what the hell do I do? Obviously keep writing, but what the hell else do I do? Yeah. What's this gentleman's name? Sam. Well, I talk about this every day because I have a lot of young people in my life, my kids' friends, my friends' kids.

36:48I feel that Sam probably has a ton to offer the world and is very bright and very creative and very interesting. And right now there's just not enough runway. And I actually, this is the, because I really have always been, if you build it, you know, they will come person. I had this exact thing. I had an assistant who was really fantastic. I mean, he really went above and beyond. And then he left to work on an independent movie. And when he got back, I tried to get him a job, help him get a job. And I couldn't, I could not find anything for him. My concern is that writing is getting to be a little bit more like acting, where like, if you can withstand it, then that's really most of the game, which, you know, writing used to be like, if you wrote something good, you could wiggle in somewhere.

37:43I don't know that that's the case anymore. It's a little bit like, I used to say there are no great undiscovered screenwriters, but I don't think that's true anymore. I think in the same way that there are many undiscovered great actors, many, I think there are now many undiscovered really good writers who would have slotted right into the system 20 years ago. And my concern is like, I just think that people have a lot to offer the world. And that I, if this was my kid, I would say, go have a conversation with the world. That's what you're doing when you're a young person is you're saying, like, for example, I started out writing broad comedies and the world was like, maybe not, you know, and then I wanted to write half hour TV.

38:26And the world was like, no, I don't think so. Like I would have experiences, well, magazine writing was first, but then the minute I started writing like grounded comedy, doors started to open. So it was a conversation that I was having with the world about like, here's what I have to offer. Here's what you have available. Unfortunately, what I see is happening now is these kids are hitting tennis balls over the net and no one's hitting them back in the business. the thing that people are doing as my young assistant is now doing is he's producing his own movies he's raising money he's making two million dollar one million dollar two million dollar movies he's making stuff yeah if you can make stuff make stuff but i want to know for sam who you know now i'm the auntie of this baby i want sam who's probably a really as i said smart interesting guy.

39:22I want him to go where there is opportunity. And right now, writing is a skill that can take you anywhere. Truly, if you're a good writer, my husband works at a mutual fund, they always need good writers. Probably not what Sam wants to hear today, but writing is a skill, still is a skill that is very important in a lot of businesses and being able to understand what type of writing is going to support a business or contribute. I'm worried about the only circumstance in which I really encourage people to stay at it is if it's someone who can withstand it, who can live in a small apartment, who can work a side hustle.

40:05I have a couple of friends like this that I can say, okay, keep hunkered down, stay on the bus and you'll get to your stop. But I would, as Sam's now aunt, I want Sam to be somewhere where he's fully appreciated and doesn't have to worry so much about where his next paycheck is coming from. I had two conversations at the Austin Film Festival that feel really relevant to that. One of them was with a guest who was on stage with us there with Anthony Sparks. And Anthony was talking about his transition from being an actor working on Broadway to coming to start working in this industry. And he was older and he already had a kid just like Sam already had a kid.

40:45And it was always a struggle like, am I going to be able to get in and stay in? And he was sort of doing his academic career at the same time. And it worked for him, but he also had constructed a life that was going to be really great and meaningful even if the Hollywood part hadn't worked out. And I think Sam at 34 now with a kid needs to be thinking about both of those things. You can still pursue your Hollywood dreams, but that shouldn't be deferring all other things until the Hollywood stuff kicks in. You know, you and I have both been in this business more than 20 years. and a 34-year-old starting in the business was always tough.

41:17I mean, it was always, the assistant track, the assistant way in was for kids like right out of college, like, you know, early 20s, mid 20s, you could do that. But being an assistant at 34 is tough and sort of moving your way up there. But I had another conversation at the opening night party with a guy named Brandon Cohen, who's sold two comedies recently. He's probably about the same age. And he just sold specs. And specs are selling. They're comedy specs. And he wasn't trying to go through any side door. He's just like, I'm going to write specs. I'm going to keep writing. I write fast. And he sold it and it happened.

41:55And that may be the more realistic path, honestly, for Sam is for his writing. It's much more of an actor model where like we're accustomed to actors teach yoga and they work at restaurants and they're graphic artists. and that for writers, it used to be like, oh, you're going to come here and in your 20s, you're going to find a way to support yourself writing. I think it's becoming more common to even be working as a writer and selling things and then also being a Pilates instructor. And, you know, so I think it's all just... Doing test prep and doing all the things that writers do. That's right, test prep.

42:27And so it's just a question to me of like, can you withstand it? And by withstand it, I mean, not get all the stuff you want at Trader Joe's and take the smaller apartment. And I just, what I'm sad about is that, you know, we used to wick people into the system in a completely different way. The flip side of that is, and we've talked about this before, but, you know, I think some of the best comedy, and I heard Judd say this somewhere, you know, some of the funniest stuff is on your phone. I mean, the people who have had opportunities to be funny on TikTok are unbelievably funny and they don't require a dime to do it.

43:05But again, I don't, as your auntie, I don't know where that's getting you diapers. Is it going to springboard you into the traditional Hollywood careers that Alina and I have had? I don't know. Those other paths may lead you to another way that's actually fulfilling and doing interesting stuff that can pay the bills and you love doing. So I would just say, I just worry that over the course of doing this podcast, we've talked about such a traditional way in, which is you move out here, you intern at a place, You get hired on as an assistant. You work your way up to another thing. Eventually, someone notices you and then you get started writing.

43:40That does happen and it probably still does happen, but it's not a realistic path for a lot of people. Well, also because a lot of people came in through TV. And those jobs, those shows that we were talking about earlier, where it's 22, 25 episodes, and basically that could be your whole life and you could be like a professor, take the summer off in between seasons. People get jobs. It's eight episodes. They're taking whatever pay is being offered to them. They have to get three of those a year. So even that, even getting staffed, which used to be like victory dance you're in, and I don't want to be gloomy.

44:15I just want all the young people to be in spots that really appreciate them and really where they can use their maximum power. So I would say in the conversation with you, I had a friend say to me, make sure that your dream is something that still exists. Yeah. Because we were talking to somebody who wanted to be a novelist and this person was saying there is no Saul Bellow and there will never be another one. Like there are no novelists who set the tone for us culturally anymore because it's just not, we have other things that do that. And so like make your dreams things that exist still exist.

44:59You know, there's a lot of beloved occupations, things that I love, love, love, like journalism that are really, really rough right now. And so I don't want to be discouraging because to me to be discouraging is like, well, you know, you've hit the end of the road. What I want to do is be encouraging and say if you're a smart, capable young person, the world needs you. It just Hollywood might not need you in this moment. You mentioned journalism and your son is an example of a kid who like really loves journalism and went into journalism and found a program that got him into working at a newspaper doing kind of like the grunt work.

45:34It was a very classic path. And some of those classic paths are still open, but it's also a classic path for a kid just out of college who could eat ramen and do these things. That's right. I want to make sure that we don't mistake advice for people who are 22 years old versus 34 years old with a kid. The different paths are open to them. That's right. And again, I feel like there is still opportunity. It just may not be in filmed studio films and television. It might be elsewhere. And maybe you're going to make an independent movie and it'll get noticed and then you can make weapons. Or so I think it's a call to the entrepreneurial.

46:17In some ways, you know, it's favors the people who have privilege, as we've discussed before. And I'm not happy about it, but I, you know, I have for many years, I was always able to help my kids, not my actual kids, but my friend kids, kid friends, get into the business and get them started. And I am at the limit of my powers. And I want people to be realistic and start thinking about, do I want to take those talents and go to games, which are booming? Do I want to write for another kind of entertainment? Do I want to write live events, which are booming? Do I want to understand AI better? Do I want to?

46:56And so many businesses have gone through that. That's why every musical artist we know is touring. So you got to roll with what the, and again, part of this conversation you're having with the world is that it goes, you know what? There's not a lot of chairs left here. So let's go somewhere else where there are chairs, Sam. And I bet you that there's something that Sam could do that would be both fulfilling his creative drive, but also would make him feel like he could get some money in that 529. Let's have one more question. This one is from Alex in Missouri. The screenplay that I'm writing involves a stage play.

47:32And throughout my script, several of my characters play different stage play characters. I'm curious how I should title their names in the script when they're in character, so to speak. Should I include the stage play name in parentheses next to the character name? Or just simply leave it as just the character name? Or something different altogether? The thing I'm writing right now has exactly this situation. And so what I'm doing is, if there are characters who are really actually not important in the outside or the offstage are not important, I just use their onstage name. So if it's Romeo and Juliet and there's Tybalt, I'm just calling that kid Tybalt.

48:08Okay. But then if there are characters who it is important, who they are as the two different people, I'm putting their onstage name in parentheses afterwards so we can remember who it is. So Oberon would be Mark, parentheses Oberon, so we know that he's speaking Oberon's lines there. I mean, my guideline for is it confusing is are you confused? Exactly. And I am often confused. Yeah. I don't pick up on things that quickly, actually. And I'm a, as a reader, I write the way I read, which is if it's like, I would write, you know, Romeo slash James or James slash Romeo. And then I would say, out of character now, James, da, da, da, da, da.

48:53And then I would say, back in character is Romeo. Just because I just, you know, people, these are directions. It's a recipe. And if you had a recipe and it just was like, hey, some reasons, you'd be mad. So I think the more, I think I have written some good scripts and some not good scripts. But I don't think I've written confusing scripts. If you don't like it, you got it before you didn't like it. And I really think that that biggest mistake that people make, one of the biggest mistakes people make is thinking about it with their brain that knows and trying to read it through the eyes of someone who has no idea what the fuck is going on.

49:32Yeah. Which is everyone. Which is everyone. Except for you. Absolutely. So again, like ambiguity is confusing and confusing is death for someone who's like reading a script. Yeah. You want them to be intrigued. They want them to be like, you know, sort of curious. But if they're just confused, they're going to stop reading. So anything like this that's going to make it simpler for them, don't worry about it. And just remember, you are limited on the page because on screen we'll be able to see like, oh, it's the same guy. We see faces, but here we... I mean, sometimes I'm... I mean, I am like the classic middle-aged lady watching a TV show looking at my husband and my kids and going, who's that one?

50:08Who's that one? Is that the guy who did the thing? Who's that one? I'm House of the Dragon. I still have no idea what anyone's name is. It's like that guy. Wait, John, here's the thing. My whole life, whenever anyone's like, well, you know, I just have to tell Claudine Jones about blah, blah, blah. I don't care if you have said Claudine Jones on every page of your, every minute that I want. I do not know people by their names. I don't, so rare. I mean, Ted Lasso, maybe. But even then, if you said Ted, I think I'd go, is there a Ted on this show? Who's Ted? Ted. Wait, his name is Ted. Same with Survivor.

50:49So we watched Survivor. Oh my God, I watched Survivor. I don't know, it's shirt guy. Yeah. Hat guy, doctor, lawyer. Yeah, guy with his balls hanging out. And so Amy will ask about like, oh, well, when... A hundred percent. When Neil said that, I'm like, who is Neil? And it gets really in, like before Survivor gets down to six, when it's at like 12, during the merge especially, they're like, I'm very worried about John. I'm like, I don't know who that is. I have no idea. So I think never underestimate. And it's funny because I just haven't come out of production. You know, when you're in production, you think you've written it super, super clearly.

51:25And then someone asks you a question and you're like, wow, I wouldn't even have anticipated that you read it that way. It's so interesting. So even in your most clear, when you're trying to be your most clear, it could still be confusing. It's time for our One Cool Things. Oh, yay. My One Cool Thing is on the wall behind you. It's what's called a big-ass calendar. And so the big-ass calendar is a thing I've been using the last couple of years. It's a giant wall-sized calendar. It's like four feet by three feet. And every month is just one line on it. And so it really gives you a chance to see the entire year all laid out in front of you.

52:04And it's really helpful for like vacations. Yeah, and blogging. Now, let me ask you a question because this is people have been talking about this on TikTok. Yeah. When you picture, Drew, I need your answer too. When you picture the year, some people picture a clock. Oh. Some people picture a calendar. Look at your face. Some people picture a calendar. What do you picture when you picture a year? Do you picture that? I probably do picture the big-ass calendar. I picture a calendar, but it's like in three-month chunks. A lot of people say that. Yeah, okay. I do not. I picture like months going by like a river, and I can pull it backwards or forwards.

52:40But like January's over here, and December's over here, and it rolls. It rolls in front of me like a measuring tape. But that's a perceptual thing. It's also some people can picture. It's sort of similar to how some people can picture things and some people can't picture things. Well, also the anthropologists will study different cultures and say like, where is the future? And the future is always either in front of you or to your right. In most cultures, but occasionally some cultures like the future is behind you, which is just a strange thing. But this allows you to get a sense of the shape of your year.

53:15Absolutely. It's a big-ass calendar. It's just giving you a sense of the overall flow of things. And so I'll put sticky notes on there for important dates, like kid home from college or trips or vacations. I'll use paper spike tape to mark off Austin and Film Festival and things like that. Just so you know what the roadblocks are ahead. It's also good as you're starting a project saying, oh, I have 12 weeks to write this. What does 12 weeks actually look like? And so I've just found it so useful. So I just got my 2026 calendar. I'll be replacing this one. And I'm excited. It sort of helps you with the thing of like, oh, it's November.

53:48Yes. Yeah. Which really happened big time this year. This year was a real big like, wait, what happened? Why are we in the middle of November now? What the hell happened? I don't. True. It's my fault? Yeah. Okay. My one cool thing is, I got this off Instagram. I sound like a teenager. I'm talking about TikTok and Instagram. but there's a company called Rare Form, and they make bags out of old billboards. I've heard of this. And they're quite pretty. You can pick the color that you want. So the reason that I'm obsessed with this is because I am not a backpack gal. I don't like the way it feels, and I find that it's just, I don't like the way it lays out spatially.

54:29Look at this guy. It's gorgeous. And I got the absolute biggest one, which is also a carry-on, a plain carry-on. and you can abuse this thing. You can stuff it full of stuff. I found, look how big that is. That was my on-set bag. Yeah. And it was great for a number of reasons. I can get a script in there, a computer in there, clothes. I always had clothes, a big water bottle, everything I needed for the day. And just like, it could also be a little bit of a garbage can, you know, when I was tired, like just zip that thing. And then it also was good because it was identifiable. So it was like a Leans bag.

55:03There's a Leans bag. and like if I left it in the way, which maybe I did once or twice, they could always just throw a Leans bag somewhere. And it's not like a precious item. But I don't really get backpacks and I don't enjoy them. So these rare form bags are really good and I really, really use the crap out of that one. I have a backpack that my everyday day pack is 20 years old. It's made of Cordura and it's like, it is flawless. It is not damaged at all. Like it's gonna outlive me for sure. but I really like the idea of this rare form bags because the vinyl that they use for outdoor ads is really durable because it has to be because it has to stand up on those billboards for months at a time and so it's a great second use of that yeah I love it I loved it cool that is our show for this week Scriveners is produced by Drew Marquardt it is edited by Matthew Culelli our outro will be sung by Aline Brosh McKenna if you have an outro you can send us a link to ask at johnaugust.com there's also a place where you can send questions like the ones we answered today you'll find the transcripts at johnaugust.com along with a sign up for our weekly news that are called Interesting.

56:05There's lots of links to things about writing. You'll find clips and other helpful video on our YouTube. Just search for script notes and give us a follow. Aline, if you checked out our YouTube videos at all, we have some really good ones now. So we have things from previous episodes, but they're like cut with like the footage of the guests' movies. And so like the Christopher Nolan one is really good. Wait, I did see one. We have an Aline one. Oh, okay. Well, you should watch the Aline one. What about TikTok, Drew? I'm on TikTok. We got to, I'm on, we're on TikTok. We are. Okay, great. We are on TikTok.

56:32Because that's, I'm, you know, there's people who scroll YouTube before they fall asleep. Oh, yeah. And there's people who scroll TikTok. I think it's a bit gendered. I think the dudes watch YouTube. Because I think the men in my family are big YouTube watchers, which I haven't fully gotten there yet. I'm certain things I'm a very early adapter and some less so. I think it's one or the other, but we're looking to get more on there. So keep an eye on it. So you can find us on Instagram and TikTok at Scribdance Podcast. We have t-shirts and hoodies and drink wear. You'll find us at Cotton Bureau.

57:02You'll find the show notes with the links to all the things we talked about today. In the email, you get each week as a premium subscriber. Aline, thank you in person for being a premium subscriber. You've been there from the very start. You're hearing all those bonus segments. I love it. You keep the show going. I love it. You can sign up to become a premium member like Aline at scriptnotes.net, where you get all those back episodes and bonus segments, like the one we're about to record on. What's that old ad? I'm not just a member. I'm not just a member. I'm a client. You are. Yeah. Right? Remember that ad?

57:29Yeah. It's for hair. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Eldian Brosh McKenna, thank you so much for coming back on Script Notes. It's so nice to see you again. Script. No, no, no, no. Love it. Fantastic.