734 - A Box Full of Teeth

19:54Like it's more, it's interesting. Like there's a lot of times too, like the director, Hiro Murai, we would just be also like looking at each other. They're like, does this feel right? Like, this feels bad. It's a lot of, like, following your stomach if something felt good or bad. And when something feels bad in this show, it really will take you out of it. So it's harder.

20:14John August:Because you're weirdly, you're very joke-dense for something that it doesn't look like it's supposed to be funny from the outside. But they're not in the form of jokes, which I love. In fact, it's just people being people. Tell me, okay, because I'm new to the show and because there's only two episodes currently out, the character, the woman who's like works in his office, who's not his assistant, but like his. You're talking about Patricia, the Cato Flynn brunette or Rosemary, the smoker. No, no. Patricia. Patricia. Okay. Yes. So funny. That character is just playing a woman who has been left and ignored and is bitter, but also hopeful.

20:55And there is something so brilliant about her sitting and talking to Shep, the fisherman who's found, who they say, he hit his head. We've just put him under to help, you know, while the head swelling goes down. And she's talking to him like he's in a coma. And Loftus says, you know, that's only when people are in a coma. She's like, well, I'm sorry for wasting his time, which is amazing. It's just like the most put upon, like, you know what, man? I guess, fine. That's not a joke. It's real, but it's also funny. I love that. I just love that. The actress, Kato Flynn, lovely, lovely woman. And also just incredible.

21:40It's an Allison Jones, great Allison Jones. She sent us her tape. And it was not what I pictured at all. But I was like, oh, but this is the person. She's so good. She brought so many layers to it. It was like loosely based off of my mom. She has a similar kind of just wants to be seen. And my, but she also, you know, she can't say the right thing. She just says the, you know. Yeah. Right. Can I give you like an example? Like I remember Drew was at my mom's house with me and there was an Eagles game and he's a diehard Eagles fan. And the Eagles started losing and he got really stressed out. And my mom was uncharacteristically soothing.

22:20She was like, you know what, Drew, don't worry. It's okay. It's all going to work out. I'm like, that does not sound like Ellie Dippold. And then the other team scored again, and she goes, well, that's not good. So that was sort of the heart of it. And then Kate came in and just brought all these other layers and stuff that I wouldn't have imagined. She's incredible. This is wonderful.

22:40John August:So can we talk about the actual production? Because you were clearly in a seaside town for—this is upstate New York you're shooting? We're in Massachusetts. I was in Massachusetts, okay. And were you block shooting? Were you shooting episode by episode? How did it all work? It was a block shooting. We had to shoot kind of out of order, too. It was an intense shoot because the scripts, we were, I think it's funny. I think in the beginning, we were really shooting for the stars and just trying to do as much as possible. And then no one really told us not to in the room. And also, I remember Drew Goddard talking about Cabin in the Woods.

23:15And he said that if he had known how hard it was, he was glad he didn't know how hard it was going to be because he would have done it differently. And so it's a similar thing here. I'm glad I didn't realize how. But I believe you can tell. So that's, there is an amount of care and attention. It's funny when I watch shows now, I will in the back of my head sort of also still be, because we're making the third season right now and I'm so in it, I start thinking about things like coverage, you know, and like, oh, that's outside at night. That's fun.

23:47John August:Yeah. And I wonder how many takes and how many angles and how much time and how much, how many meetings were based just to figure out that room. The art department has to come up with what the teeth game looks like. There's so much. It's hard. And it pays off. Yeah. Oh, that's nice. I have to say this production team, they were insane in the best way. The props department, when you see the rest of the show, this props department, I don't know how they did it. I mumble that every day. I'm like, I don't know how props did it. Like the production designer, like that whole episode two, that in, the whole inside is a build.

24:22Oh, yeah, you could tell. Like, I mean, you could tell in a good way. Because you can't get the cameras around. And like a hotel wouldn't have that parlor like that. But I loved it so much. Like, I thought that was such a brilliant thing to like, what ends up happening is you find a location and they're like, can only be here for eight days because of the season, blah. And also it's not perfect. And the electricity and you can't get equipment in. It was so perfect. Everyone on working on, I don't know what it was. Everyone working on the show was just really game for it. That's great. Do you know what I mean?

24:52Because they liked it. Katie, because it's good. That's honestly, here's the thing. I talk to crew people every day. They work on things every day. We don't. Our show ends, they move on to another production. They mostly work on stuff they don't like. They work on things that they read and they're just like, that's just how it goes. I think people get excited when they work on something they like.

25:18John August:Before you got into production, you had to write a bunch of scripts. And so you wrote a pilot, which obviously we wrote a ton. But I'm looking at the credits and there's like a murderer's row of like really funny people. So talk to us about the process of getting, you know, everything written. Was everything written before you showed up there? What happened? Yeah, it was a great room. So I had the pilot written and I did something that was a little tricky, but I'm so glad I did. Which it was not like a room full of all comedy writers. It was, you know, a couple of writers that came from shows like WandaVision.

25:50Actually, one of them also had a super funny spec. And, you know, a couple of my old-time comedy friends, one that was a writer on SNL, actually, Neil Casey, that plays the innkeeper, too. Sure, you're so funny. And Colton Dunn from Keen Peel and Kelly Galeska has done a ton of comedy. And then I also had a playwright, this guy Dave, who's lovely, and another writer, Alberto Ordon, who'd worked on, like Mrs. Davis. So it was a real stew. Yeah. Because I felt like this show was going to need a lot of different kinds of thought process and just different ideas. In the beginning, it was kind of tricky navigating this.

26:25But then it got to a point where the drama mythology people are pitching jokes that are hilarious. And the comedy writers are really like passionately arguing story points. And so it was very rewarding to see that all come together.

26:39John August:No, so you had been on Mad TVs or you're used to like that kind of comedy writing. You'd been on Mike Schur's show. So you had a sense of being in a room. This is your first time running a room with this group. How did you approach that? How many weeks did you have? What were your hours? Like, what did it feel like? What were the nuts and bolts of it? So we had 20 weeks and I kept the hours. The hours were about like 10 to five. Yeah. I would leave and then keep thinking about it until I go to bed. There's no reason to keep everyone there. You know what I mean? Like you're the one that needs to do that, I think.

27:08John August:And over the course of those 20 weeks, were you, you know, there was probably a little bit of a blue sky phase, but like, then you were just like cranking down, okay, what happens in this episode? How do we get through this thing? Are you signing people off during that time? How did it work? God, it was so crazy just like feeling my way through this process. Like I called so many different people. Like, what are we doing? Like, I called you. We blue sky for about six weeks, four weeks. Oh, wow. And just sort of, I knew, I actually knew some of the dilemmas I wanted to happen. And I knew certain kind of things I wanted to do, but then working through it.

27:43And it was a very creative, organic process of like, we just would talk about, well, this just feels fun right now. You know what I mean? Like, let's just do this now. And it was just constantly making those moves. And then people would get sent out to script one time. When you assembled the room, did you have, okay, here's, I know how this begins and I know how it ends. Yes. So you had that. Yes. So at least there was a structure that everybody was trying to fill into. Yes. And even how it ended, I didn't, there's some choices in it that came up through the room, which was a very fun debate. Yeah.

28:18So I knew the basic, I knew where I was going, but we found so much along the way and everyone was great.

28:25John August:So you're doing this work in a room. How much are you having to communicate out with producers, with Apple, with other folks about what was happening or was it only when you were done with the 20 weeks that you could come back and say, here's the show. I was kind of a lunatic about, I would send like a 30-page outline to the producers and Apple. It was very, very detailed and very specific. And I would start off with like this, kind of a summary at the top. This is what we're trying to do here. And then just really break down each scene. And I also, because the show is so tonally tricky, I just wanted to be as detailed as possible.

28:58John August:So even during the 20 weeks while you're going through stuff, they could see like, this is where we are headed. So if they had sort of a big red flag concerns. I think that's wonderful. I think that there is a value in looking at the people that give us all the money to make these things as people that deserve a little caretaking. You know, I mean, I think they work with writers who are so internal sometimes that they get nothing back. They're in the dark. They don't know what's going on. And yeah, some caretaking documents goes a long way. They don't abuse it. I find that it's the opposite, that they give less input the more detail you give.

29:34Could not agree more. And our execs, Dana and Spencer, were, I swear to you, I'm not just saying this because of career purposes. Because you need them. They were awesome. They really, like, I never dreaded their feedback. That's great. Which is, like, unusual to say. Yeah. Like, if they called on the phone, I'm like, look, pick up a phone. I don't like picking up a phone. So that's the biggest compliment I can give. Yeah. But that was, Apple, I have to give them credit. but they really just kind of let us do it.

30:00John August:Now, when you were actually making the show, were there any writers besides you around to sort of pitch new stuff, or was it just you? Were you the writer on set? Oh, well, I'm very thankful for the strike because having writers on set was such a blessing. Okay, so because there was a gap between the things, you were shooting in the U.S., so you were able to pull, you had two writers with you? Two writers on set. And so one of them was there the whole time, that's Neil, and then two other writers, Kelly and Mackenzie, took turns. and it was so nice. Like also just having people that they were in the room and they understand what we were going for.

30:34I really wanted to be on set a lot and make sure we're capturing the moments. So then, but then you have something else prepping. So having a writer, being able to go that director because we had three other guest directors come in and then for scouting and just have an eye on things and be able to talk.

30:49John August:Or if you have a splinter unit like you could, yes, yeah. That was really, really, really. I could probably maybe use somebody other than myself. No, it's great. I'm starting to feel even more terrified by my own life. Yeah. Also, having people like, just also having like funny writers make sure, you know what I mean? Just like just to talk to about what's going on and stuff like that. It's just lovely. People to talk to. Yeah. People to talk to. That would be nice. Mike Schur shows, the things we were growing up on, like the writers were around and that's part of the reason why things can work.

31:21John August:Yeah. Yeah. Being around funny people is a nice thing. Second topic I want to get to is like what you wish you knew. And so for this exercise, let's imagine we get the chance to either talk to our younger selves or send an email to our younger selves. Let's start with our 15-year-old self and sort of like who, if you could send an email to young Katie about sort of like some advice for her. Anything, some like headlines you would want her to know? I wouldn't have listened to it. Yeah, that's honestly true. But I would have said. Shut up, old woman. several ones. But you also know that— Why do you never wear your hair down anymore?

31:56John August:And yet, you also know that you wouldn't listen. So you could probably outsmart this 15-year-old Katie because she's an idiot. I would hate this advice so much. I would say, you're too boy crazy. None of these boyfriends you're going to marry. You know, like, just read some books. Just read books. And don't— Oh, my God. You're like, get out of here. I would like, fuck off. Yeah, seriously. Beat it. Yeah. Great advice to your 15-year-old self. Well, I certainly wouldn't have said be less girl crazy. I would have been like, yeah, no, have fun. You're going to get married soon. I think for my 15-year-old self, I would have said, hey, hold tight.

32:32You're going to be out of here soon. The world was pretty small for me, and I felt like I was supposed to be somewhere, and I wasn't sure where. I didn't know. I hadn't yet connected the idea that I would be doing this for a living, but I would say, don't worry. You'll be out of here soon.

32:52John August:Yeah. I mean, I wasn't out when I was 15. And so like, and you can't sort of retroactively say, oh, it would have been fine to be like, you don't know. But I think just the sense that like, you will fall in love. You'll be happy. You'll be married. Did you know that you were gay when you were 15? I knew I was gay. Oh, so your older self wouldn't be like, by the way, and you'd be like, no, I'm not. Yeah, I wasn't like a bad boy. You weren't going to argue. Yeah, you'd be like, there wasn't anything to act upon at the moment. And I probably could have. I just, it was cowardice. I don't think that's cowardice it's not recognizing opportunities that you have but I think in terms of I was ambitious I didn't know there was such a thing as screenwriting yet I didn't know the movies were written I had no idea general advice is just pursue what you're interested in and don't be worried if your tastes and opinions change that's also part of growing up but now let's fast forward to you've arrived in Los Angeles maybe you're a year in Okay, what else?

33:48Can we visit college?

33:50John August:College, please. Let's go to college. I think one thing, I would have told myself freshman year of college, and I eventually did this. I just wish I got to it sooner. Just find your people. Oh, yeah. You know, like, and for me, that was some real weirdos. You know, and the best possible, like I started pledging this sorority and they're all really nice and lovely, but my stomach was like, oh, this doesn't feel right. This doesn't feel right. And then I started the theater group and improv group. And I mean, I had this improv group there that it was just the best group of weirdos. I remember just being in a New Jersey diner with them like late at night.

34:23Like we weren't going to any party or frat house. Like there was a guy that could have been... You can see the diner, by the way. It's got the two entrances, the little lobby, the thing, go inside. There's a case with the... Yes. Yes. And they were just like so... They're all so bizarre in the best way. Like there was someone that could have been 18 or he could have been 55 years old. I have no idea. He was the funniest person ever. And like finding that those people just changed my life. Yeah. Yeah, God, talking to myself in college, I think probably I would have said, you do know you're not going to be a doctor, right?

34:54Yeah. Why don't you do what you want instead of what you're supposed to do? Which I started to do. It just took me a bit, you know, because also afraid. Yeah. That's a tough thing because, you know, if your older self comes to you and says, hey, do what you want, there's like an implication and it'll work out. Not like do what you want. Also, you're going to end up alone and addicted. You know, I would have maybe gotten myself off the pre-med track a little sooner.

35:24John August:So I was just back in my undergrad last weekend. I got an alumni award, which was lovely. And I got to see my campus and sort of, you know, every time you go back to your college campus, it's like, oh my God, this school is so much smaller than I remember. Like everything is just closer together and all these things. And it was lovely. I don't have like great advice for that kid because like I kind of did it right. I picked a school that was like just the right size and that I was, I knew so many people. I was in lots of different groups and I was just, I was kind of happy. So maybe you would have just come back and said, yeah.

35:52John August:Thumbs up, yeah. Thumbs up. Thumbs up, yeah, keep doing that. Nailed it. Nailed it. It was a good experience. And so I was happy with that. When I got into USC for film school, I'm like, yeah, I'm going to do it. I'm going to drive my rusted out car to Los Angeles. And I, the luxury, and Craig and I, you and I have talked about this, the luxury I had moving out here was that like my family was generally supportive and I had sort of a, if everything went haywire, I could have just like moved home. Like I had that support underneath me. And so it wasn't like they were like, Yeah, me too. Yeah, that's not the difference.

36:27John August:And so I felt really lucky that, you know, I had a family that didn't understand what I wanted to do, but was generally supportive. But that's why you're healthier than I am. Yeah, maybe. That's nice. Were your parents like not excited about you? No, they were angry and insistent that it wouldn't work. And also they had no money. And now that did give me a lot of fear. Yeah. You know, so when I got here, I was definitely motivated by fear. Fear, I think, is like, I've never done cocaine. We've talked about cocaine before on this show. I've never done cocaine. Katie's like, that's interesting. You're cooking my silence.

37:03The two of us are like, we've never done it. And you're like, but I feel like fear is the cocaine of emotions. It's chopping up. Okay, it's not for here. It's not for here. It's fine. Not for here. Yeah. No, cool, cool, cool. It powers you, but I think then there's this terrible, you know, downside. There's the come down. Oh, it's a very empty drug. I just feel like anytime I've done it in my 20s, it just ended up making lunch plans with someone I didn't want to eat lunch with. You know what I mean? It's a real waste of time. Fear does not do that for me, but it definitely like, like fear will get me up in the morning and will power me through a day.

37:37But when I get home, I'm like, oh, no. Yeah. It's just, it does, it's an effective motivator, but it comes with a cost. Oh, that does.

37:45John August:So, Craig, I think you know that you have one tattoo. I have one tattoo. Yes. My tattoo is Timmy Aminihil Nemetis Quidum, which is Let Me Fear Nothing, Not Even Fear, which is, I got the first year while I was here in Los Angeles, like friends, we were out just walking and they all had tattoos. Like, I want a tattoo. It's like, in Venice Beach, I got a tattoo. Nice. And Hepatitis C. Absolutely. But it was a helpful thing for me to remember because unlike you where fear was motivating to go do a thing, fear was always starting to think like, stay back, stay, don't reach for it. Healthier. And so often the things I regret most were the things I didn't do because I was afraid.

38:20John August:And it's just like, the stakes were always much lower than I sort of allowed myself to believe. I think my biggest motivator was never wanting to feel stuck. You know, I feel like I love my parents very much, but they're always, you know, they divorced when I was in college and it was like when they did, it was like, okay, that seems good. Yeah, I think both of them seems right. There was always like a little tension, like you remember like the beginning of The Shining? That sort of like, it always had that energy to them. Oh, that energy? Okay, that must have been comfortable in your house. Love them both, love them both.

38:54Hopefully they don't listen to script notes. And so it's just really just always wanting to not feel stuck and having opportunity. That was the biggest drive for me. Right. I mean, that's empowering, I think. Yeah. That's a positive thing to reach for. Yeah.

39:08John August:We've all arrived in Los Angeles, and things we learned early on in Los Angeles, or maybe could have learned earlier if we could tell ourselves. My nominee for this is the soft pass and understanding where, like, someone is passing, and they just don't want to say that they're passing. It's a no, but they're not actually saying no. They're just saying, maybe, or, like, that sounds great. Let me get back to you about that. And recognizing when, like, oh, they actually are saying no. it's just that you're not hearing it as the no. And so there were so many times where I thought like, oh, this is still a possibility.

39:39John August:Like this project, they're still considering it. And so it's like, no, they did pass. They just didn't actually close the loop. And I just wasted so much time thinking that a thing was alive when it wasn't alive. When it wasn't alive. Yeah. And the lesson I sort of took from that is, it's okay, first off. It's okay for things just to not happen. And it's often worth it to make the phone call or make the email to say like, hey, sorry this didn't click, but I really enjoyed meeting you. Basically like to close the loop for them. Right. Let them off the hook. Let them off the hook, yeah. Yeah. And rather than being resentful, just recognize like, oh, that's just how it goes.

40:14John August:Things will just sometimes not happen and that's okay. That's good advice. Things you'd advise your earlier self those first years in this business. Okay. I came to LA for MADtv. I don't know what I would have, I probably should have recognized earlier I'm not a performer. That would have helped something. I put up a one-woman murder mystery that probably didn't need to. I want to see this so badly. I'm going to search the internet to find it. I think, well, no, thank God you won't find it. But I think what was also funny about it to the audience is like, it's a show written for someone that could do all these different characters and voices.

40:49I cannot alter my voice from this right now. You know, so it's amazing. That's awesome. It's like the one woman show where everyone sounds the same. I'm trying my best. I am just sweating and trying and throwing on different weeps and hats. Hello, Dr. Trumbly. And it's just the same voice. Yes, exactly. Yes. Well, I don't know. No one knows who's talking at any given point. Yes. So good. Right. So that's the first thing I thought of.

41:14John August:So give yourself permission to not be a performer and that there's other things there. Yes, exactly. Yeah. I like that. And then because even Mad TV, the first two, for two years in a row, they brought me out to test to be a performer. And I just think they liked the things I was writing for the characters in the auditions, but they're like, oh, but it's just not working somehow. And so finally I submitted a writing packet to them. They were like, stay behind the camera. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I was like, great, great. Yeah. Craig, things you would talk to that early Craig about? I think I would assure myself that my suspicion that everyone was stupid was correct.

41:48Oh, yeah. That everybody in Hollywood is convincing you that they are brilliant.

41:53John August:Yeah. They know more than you do. And that their power is derived from their wisdom and their connections. and that you are the outsider. You are the thing that is barely hanging on and that it could flick you away, ha, ha, ha, at a moment's notice to make you feel powerless. My suspicion was always that they just, a lot of them just seem stupid. Yeah. And fake. And they were. Everyone is faking it. There's so many frauds. Our business is full of frauds. And you can see over time, the frauds disappear. There's some doubt. And the real ones stay. Well, some don't, but they eventually kind of do.

42:33Yeah, that's true. Like, there are some people that are problematic and stay there, but what they do is something that I don't really interface with necessarily. But there's just so many blowhards and just. Dude, that is the hardest thing for me because I know how I should sound in this job. And it's not how I talk normally. You know, I've always like, I've never been a lean in type of person, like a fake it till you make it. I can't, if I don't know what I'm saying, like you can see it on my face, you know? Yeah. So that's why I feel like it's, I'm jumping ahead a decade. But if I say give myself later, just making sure you really know the story you want to tell.

43:15Before you start talking. Yes. I have to know that or otherwise I can't fake it.

43:22John August:Yeah. Yeah, we've talked on that show before, but my one thing started clicking, and it clicked really fast for me. And I was, you know, Go happened, and I was doing a TV show, and I was doing Charlie's Angels and doing Big Fish all at the same time. And the TV show was just a spectacular disaster, a slow motion car crash, and sort of had a nervous breakdown during it. And it ended up being very helpful that I had it because that I could just have a crashing failure, and it was actually okay. Like that failure is... So healthy. Why is he so healthy? Well, I wasn't healthy at the moment, but I really was just like, you know, disassociating all this.

43:56John August:You did have a nervous breakdown. I did have a nervous breakdown. Yeah. But I sort of got through it and obviously writing sort of got me through it. Like I was fired off that show and then still had to write Big Fish and it's like, I will enter this Southern family and figure out the drama from inside there. It was just so nice. Like, oh, I can go back and do the thing I'm actually good at doing. Yeah. Because so often, like you guys are so, you know, busy doing your TV shows and managing these giant productions, but you're also like really good writers and you can sort of always just like, just go write a script, which is a nice thing too.

44:24John August:A good reminder to me is that like, oh, that core skill set you have in terms of actually being able to write things, that can get you through. The biggest lesson I feel like I've been learning for the past like 15 years is not thinking about it, like what should I be doing? Or, you know, like when it's writing or through production, like when you're making choices, like if I think like, oh, what is it supposed to be instead of just, wait, what do you want? You know? Right. It's weirdly been the hardest one for me to just shake off over the years. I'm with you on that. It's the other side of the, okay, there's the Katie Dippold who writes that document and caretakes the people.

45:01Sometimes caretaking becomes, and also your priorities are more important than my priorities. Or making you happy is more important than making me happy. And it's a tricky thing. I've talked about this with Alec Berg, who's been on our show a few times. there's that dial where you think like, okay, in one direction is hack and the other direction is pompous asshole. And so you don't want to go all the way to, I just do whatever people tell me to do, but you also don't want to go up your own butt. And I think people are sometimes innately more afraid of one side than the other. I'm more afraid of going up my own butt.

45:39So I got to be careful to not go too far towards making other people happy. Right. That's a dial that everyone struggles with for sure. It's a dial. Yeah. Whichever one you're more afraid of, be more afraid of the other one, actually. Yes.

45:52John August:I think I recognize in myself that I would love to tell an earlier version, but even now I still feel it is you don't have to chase things as much as you're chasing them. And so early in your career, you're always going after any opportunity and you see the thing. It's like, well, I should obviously, that's a movie, so I should try to land that movie. And I think too often I would go after that thing and sometimes land that thing and it's like, and spend a year of my life, two years of my life working on things. It's like, this isn't really what I wanted to do. Dog that caught the car. Absolutely.

46:22John August:And so it's like, it's like you're in a relationship that you didn't even really want to be in. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for remembering. Let's answer a listener question. Okay. Drew Davo writes, Davo, I'm a writer in London. In 2011, I developed a TV show tailored to a specific actress and pitched it to her through mutual friends. I have the emails, the treatments, all of it. It went nowhere and I forgot about it entirely. And then someone pointed out that a show which debuted on a streamer years later, starring that same actress who also co-created it, shares its core premise, its inciting incident, and several specific plot elements with my pitch.

46:58John August:I'm not here for the legal question. My question is tactical. Great. I still haven't had anything produced. I'm actively writing and will be pitching soon. If I pursue this, does it blacklist me? In a town as small as London TV, is the game worth the candle or do I just eat it and move on? Did he say, is the game worth the candle? Yeah, I just love that phrase. Is that a British expression? It must be. Why would a game be worth a candle? Is the juice worth the squeeze? That I understand. Is the game worth the candle? Yeah. Why would a candle be used to... This is not at all what Davo wanted. It means the expected rewards of an endeavor do not justify the cost of her retirement party.

47:37John August:We got that part. We just are trying to figure out why... How did it get there? I love the turn of phrase. Games and candles. We've really got to get to the bottom of this. I got it. So it is... Yes. The phrase stems from 17th century French le jeu ne va pas la chandelle, referring to gambling by candlelight. So the potential winnings were smaller than the expense of the candles used, then the game was not worth playing. The thing I want to highlight in Davos' question here is, it went nowhere and I forgot about it entirely. That's what you should do. Forget that that moment happened. When he says pursuit, does he mean pursue?

48:15John August:He's not clear whether he wants to, should he mention, should he ever bring it up? No, because premise, we've discussed this many times and he's saying he's not here for the legal advice, but it is connected. Yes, premises can be similar and it's not theft and all the rest. it's a little bit like that soft pass. Yeah. So maybe that was a fun idea that somebody once had, but they just didn't like whatever the execution of it was. You must move on and do something that is worthy of capturing somebody and making them want to do it with you. That's just part of, that's part of this. Okay, did you feel bad for stealing his idea?

48:53Yeah. Look, I really felt like I had a take on it. You thought you were a performer until Mad TV told you you were not. it was worth it. No, I agree with Craig, but I also am furious for this person. I understand how frustrating that is.

49:07John August:I understand what they're feeling. And at the same time, I worry that if they think about this anymore, it's going to define... Yeah, 100 % agree. Exactly. It's like, I'm the person who got screwed out over this thing. And we all know people who are like that. Yes. And it ruins you. Use this fire to write something new. There you go. Do not let this define you. It is a poison in your veins to dwell on injustice, whether perceived or in fact, if you dwell on it, then you're stuck. You can acknowledge it. Yeah. You can be aware of it. You can look out for it. You can rue it, but you can't obsess over it.

49:46John August:Something I read in a book, a blog post recently, was talking about, like, you're stuck in a line and it's really annoying and the person just says, thank you. And you say thank you to acknowledge that you're in this thing and just like, somehow just like saying thank you to it, It's just like, okay, I've acknowledged it, whatever. And I'm moving on. There's nothing I can do about it. This is what's happening. Just acknowledging the problem is helpful and sometimes can get you out of dwelling on it. So we released you, Davo. You've released. Davo has been released. Let's try another question here.

50:15John August:Anonymous writes, I was hired to write five seasons of a Christian docuseries for a large Christian network. These shows had a primetime slot, were fairly successful for the network, and I got paid. But these shows don't represent my voice at all. My spec feature is an erotic thriller, and my three pilots all have distinctly adult themes. Not to mention that the Christian TV shows were fairly crappy and hyper-specific to a religious audience. So I'm about to pursue representation, and I'm wondering how to position myself. While I'm technically the credited writer for network TV, I'm hesitant to mention this past work.

50:49John August:I'm concerned it might alienate reps or producers or even talent when they see my name attached to an obscure evangelical docuseries. So will my past credits hurt my future prospects or does any experience beat no experience? I think this is a great story. I think it's a great story too. I think this is something that would absolutely delight people if you're like, here's a crazy thing. Look at what I wrote. Now look at what I'm writing now. How could this be the same person? Find out when you meet me. I mean, that's hooky. I like that. It's interesting. I agree. I think it's great. I think that is an angle on you that's going to be helpful and useful.

51:26John August:So it doesn't have to be like the very first thing you introduce yourself with, but like I think it's the second or third thing. It's a fun fact. Yeah, fun fact. And I would acknowledge it. People do look you up, right? So if it's on IMDb, I would get in front of it. Yeah. But I also wouldn't like put it down. Like I wouldn't say like, oh, it's crappy or oh, it's just for religious people because the thing is, look, you did a job, you took the money, you know, they paid you. It sounds like they treated this person well. So, you know, I would just say like, look, would I prefer to be writing erotic thrillers?

52:00Yes. And if you read one, you'll see why. But hey, I'm pretty versatile. We know that much.

52:06John August:Absolutely. I mean, that's cool. And 10 years from now, we're going to see a bunch of like really talented emerging filmmakers who are going to have a bunch of verticals on their series, like really like the dumbest things. And it's like, it's fine. And people used to have like, you know, music videos for random bands and karaoke videos. Like people do stuff to make a living. There's no shame in that. No, there really isn't. Not a bit. It's time for One Cool Things. My One Cool Thing is a video series that was somehow recommended to me by the algorithm. And God bless the algorithm, it did the right thing.

52:39John August:It's Captain Disillusion, who is a YouTuber. So his real name is Alan Melijanian. So he has like 2.5 million followers. Like a bunch of people have watched this, but I've never seen this before. What he talks about in his videos are film and TV, camera things, things like aspect ratio, frame rate, interlacing. What's remarkable is they're like 100 times better than they need to be. And so they're like full production value things with lots of jokes and details. We talk about sort of like, you know, a box full of teeth. Like it's full of those kinds of... Teeth. It's full of those kinds of jokes.

53:16John August:And it's like, I'm just so impressed because you learn so much about like, why do we have interlacing? like how do we end up in these weird systems and he can just explain it all and it's like he's not trying to you know solve the problems but just explain like why we have these systems we have I think they're just so good I can't believe I just didn't know this existed until I love stuff like that I'm gonna watch that yeah you'll love it and you'll plow through the whole post while I'm waiting for the next episode of Widow's Bay yeah very good which is on Wednesdays I believe yes I love that it's weekly by the way yeah hooray finally the streamers figured it out yeah Oh, Apple's been pretty good on the weekly from the top.

53:53John August:Yeah, they have been. From the top. That's good. That's good. Fair to Apple. Katie Dippold, when you're not basking in the success of Widow's Bay, what would you like to share with our audience? Okay, okay. This is going to be the most boring one. No, no, it's not possible. Is it teeth? It's just teeth. I'm going to say, oh, no, that actually is the most boring one. But it is the thing I, eye doctor, got me into taking rice, putting it into a cotton sock, not synthetic, putting it in the microwave 20 seconds. Oh, yeah. Doing that warm compress over your eyes. She does it three or four times a day.

54:30I try to do it twice a day. My eyes were about to fall out of my head, and we're all staring at screens. Save your eyes. Do this. Okay. And here I'll say this. Yeah. Meditating is very boring, but if I'm doing two things at once. I know I'm getting heat. I'm saving my eyes and then I'm forced to relax that way. Okay, I'm going to do this because when I'm on a plane, I get the little hot towel. People like rub their hands. I put it on my eyes immediately. I wouldn't trust that. I don't put it in my eyes, guys. I close my eyes. You squeeze and put the fluid in your eyes. I drink the dirty rag fluid.

55:07Sucking all that voice. Guys, I put it on my eyes. That's how I got cholera. Yeah. Because I love the warm feeling in my eyes. And then it just occurred to me as you were saying this, like, I could do this all the time. I don't need to wait until I'm flying. Yes. And it also forces you that. You know that whole thing? It's like good to be bored as a creative person. It forces you to do it. You can't do anything. So rice? Does it have to be arboreo? I put like, no, I just, I've been trying different kinds of rice, honestly. I'm not sure which is the best one, but organic rice in a cotton sock, not synthetic.

55:43And you tie off the sock. Tie up the sock. And you do 20 seconds in the microwave? I do 20 seconds. Sometimes I'll add two more seconds. Then you squeeze the rice and make sure the heat's spread out.

55:52John August:It's like it's weirdly moist is the thing that's surprising about it. Yeah, and it kind of releases. There's water inside of the rice. But don't, it shouldn't burn. Oh, God, the first time I did it, I misunderstood. And I thought I was supposed to heat it for two and a half minutes. Oh, no. Instead of 20 seconds. Yes. And I was like, well, this is burning my eyes. And so now I feel like I'm just trying to get back to where I was before I burned it in the first place. Right. Anyways. So you're building up. Yes. So we have something we bought on Amazon 15 years ago. It's like a tube of rice in a cotton thing that we use on our necks.

56:22John August:And so you heat it up in the microwave. And that is actually like a two-minute kind of situation. But it's really good. Okay, I'm going to do this. Rice. You have to. But it has to be a cotton sock. Yeah. Otherwise, it'll melt. Yeah. And it'll get in your eyes. It'll go real bad. Right. If I show up blind because of this, the lawsuit. Incredible. I'm going to take everything you have. Yeah. now Widow's Bay is mine. I took it. And maybe she would like that. Yeah. Craig, what do you have for one cool thing? Well, you know, even though I didn't want to be a doctor, I do love medical science. So osteoarthritis is the worst.

56:58There is no cure for it. It's basically the degradation of your cartilage in joints because it's very painful. Almost everybody will end up with some of it, but some people start getting it quite early. I have like a lot of people, it's very common, I have it in my left big toe. There's just no cartilage whatsoever. And if like I, every now and then, like I'll go, oh, and the, well, and the cure, I mean, there's like surgery, which is kind of useless. This is kind of magical and it's early on, but there is a project that's being funded by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services because government still is able to do a few things, you know, before they figure out that something good is happening and take it away.

57:41and they're funding a program called NITRO, which stands for, I hate these things when they do these, what do they, retronyms? Yeah, retronyms, yeah. Novel Innovations for Tissue Regeneration in Osteoarthritis. But a team at the University of Colorado Boulder, Very nice, yeah. which has gotten a bunch of money, has got this thing down where they do an injection. Yeah. And the injection is some sort of protein that triggers the body to start the regeneration process. Essentially, they think they may be able to inject osteoarthritis away.

58:17John August:Yeah. Now, it is early on. There's still an animal testing, but there is a chance that the three of us may be spared that gnarly, miserable joint pain existence that our grandparents suffered through. That feels doable. It feels like, oh, that's science I believe that could exist and happen. It's probably not peptides, but it's something like that. Do you know why I think it's going to happen? Because you can see how much money you could make. Like basically when there's money there, I feel like they'll figure it out. They'll figure it out. So hopeful. Yeah, that's great. All right. That is our show for this week.

58:59John August:Script Notes is produced by Drew Marquardt, edited by Matthew Cilelli. I don't think so. Outro this week is by Eric Pearson. If you have an outro, you can send us a link to ask at journalogs.com. That is also the place where you can send questions like the ones we answered today. You'll find transcripts at journalogs.com, along with a sign-up for our weekly newsletter called Interesting, which has lots of links to things about writing. But wherever you're hearing this podcast, click through to the show notes because we have a link in there to the Script Notes survey. And we would love you to fill out the Script Notes survey to tell us what you love about the show, what you'd like more of, less of.

59:29John August:Less Craig. I hope that's a click box. It is, absolutely. it's the default you have to like it's the default you have to like to pull it down to get back there I mean obviously one of the questions should be like how much more often should Kitty Dippold be on the show should it be from every 10 years to maybe every I mean I would come every week honestly I'd be thrilled with that I'd be delighted the Script Notes book is available wherever you buy books you could also pre-order Wolf's Belly there which is now up for pre-order another surprise John August joint just casually just made a graphic novel while nobody was do you know how much you would hear about this if it were me I can't imagine.

1:00:05It's unbelievable. Thanks. Good for you.

1:00:07John August:We have t-shirts and hoodies and drinkware. You'll find those at Cotton Bureau. You'll find us on Instagram at Script Notes Podcast. The show notes with links to all the things we talked about today are in the email you get each week as a premium subscriber. Thank you to all our premium subscribers. You are the very, very best. You make it possible for us to do this each and every week. We send out little emails ahead of time for things like three-page challenges and stuff, so you get to be the first to know about that stuff. You can sign up to become a premium subscriber at ScriptNotes.net. where you get all those back episodes and bonus segments like the one we're about to record on the future of television and movies.

1:00:40John August:Whether it'll be around for five or ten years, we'll see what happens, but only for our premium subscribers. Can I say something real quick? Please. It's going to be a little mushy. I love this podcast so much. I listen to it all the time. I can't tell you over the years how many times I've been writing something and been stuck and then put on an old episode that just helps my brain think of something differently. I really, really love you guys. to know about this podcast. Oh, my gosh. I love you, too. Thank you. That was mushy, and I'm having feelings. I don't like that. I like all those feelings.

1:01:10John August:All right. All right, we'll take our break. Now, Katie, thank you so much for being on the show. Thank you for having me. Thanks, Katie.