Diarrha N'Diaye: Founder and CEO of Ami Colé

21:58And even when you raise your hand and to say things is like a nod, but it just goes in out the other way. And or it could take a very long time for that to come to fruition. So one thing that could take and sort of land seven months would take five years at L 'Oreal. And it's really hard to kind of see that through and be patient with that. But I learned a lot, especially when it came to, you know, literacy of market, market share and understanding, you know, what's the difference between Maybelline and YSL and the power of storytelling. Oh my goodness. When we sat in those yearly seminars and you get those glossy presentations, you're really in awe.

22:38So it's very easy to drink the L 'Oreal and Estee Lauder juice and you can find yourself there easily for 15 years if you're comfortable and you find your stride. I get that.

22:48Diarrha N'Diaye:So you made another interesting pivot from there, away from social, away from a behemoth, back to scrappier, more entrepreneurial roots. And you went into product development and innovation at Glossier. This is circa 2018. So at that point, Glossier was huge. And this must have been like the most thrilling of opportunities and a wild ride too, I'm sure because you're moving to the product side without necessarily direct experience right oh so much to this but I think just to backtrack a little bit since temp 2 that was also the height of into the gloss so I was an avid reader I was an avid commenter and so over the years I just developed a relationship with not only Emily Weiss but with the team with the editors and Emily Ferber, and then eventually the product development team.

23:42Back in 2014, when the Glossier just started to kind of materialize the brand, they would just call me over to 123 Lafayette, you know, in the Canal Street offices where it was literally magical walking into those offices because everyone had the sweatshirt. It was the opposite of what I was living. There was no suits and everything was pink and lovely and everyone had ideas and they action on the ideas and storytelling was important. So it felt like my jam. So fast forward now, it's 2018, four years later, Glossier is a thing and it's continuing to grow. And I was fed up with L 'Oreal, bless them, but I quit with no job, honestly.

24:27I was just like, I am trusting the universe. I'm going to see what happens. Of course, the universe and it's funny ways. I get this email from Emily Weiss and it's like, call me soon. I'm like, oh my God, here is Glossy again with their clever marketing. They're just so ahead of their time. And I look, I'm like, wait, this is signed off as Emily and there's

24:45Diarrha N'Diaye:nothing in the body except for, you know, do you have time to chat? I'm like, this is her. You know, I email her back almost immediately. I'm like, yes, I am available. Like, when can you talk? And I think I had to wait like a week to get on her calendar. And she calls me. She's Like, are you like sitting in a L 'Oreal closet somewhere? I'm like, actually, I quit and I'm actually at home in Brooklyn. What are you thinking? She's like, you know, there's an opportunity on the team. I'm automatically thinking like, oh my God, how epic is it going to be for me to work on the Classier social team? Like, I love Eva.

25:16This is going to be amazing. And she's like, no, this has nothing to do with social media. Actually, I want you to come and do product development. I'm like, what does that mean? What is product development? And she's like, hear me out. And I will say Emily is of many things, a salesperson. So she convinced me, she said, you've always been a fan of beauty. You talk about it like a fanatic. And I know you have a point of view of how to not only do the Glossier thing in terms of product, but like how to think about the comment of social media at the very beginning of the product development process.

25:52So I want you to bring what you're good at and work all the way backwards to create products that meant what was missing in the portfolio, of course, but also like, what do we want the comment to be? What do we want the community to feel? And how do we want them to react to it? And we'll teach you the rest was the pitch. So I'm like, this is a tall order, but this is my dream job. Like I'm going to pivot. I'm going to set myself up for the challenge and I'm going to do it. And throughout the interview process, I kept saying over and over again, I have never done product before, but I had really great product ideas.

26:29And I did a formal test. The interview process was insane. I kid you not, it might've been a month long. And I met with at least seven people, different departments from HR to art to legal team, just for a vibe check. And then the last interview was again with Emily. And then I had pitched, I think five to seven product ideas and they loved it. And the vibe check passed. And then I was suddenly working at Gossier, but it was so challenging. Talk to me about what was challenging. You know, to be very transparent, everyone was young and eager, but I don't think we all had the tools to teach the hardcore skills it required to not only learn a discipline, but also apply it the Glossier way.

27:14I think working at Glossier, everyone deeply believed in what we were doing. It felt like at the time, at least the future of beauty, you know, unconventional, having a woman at the helm versus, you know, a French guy, all respect. But we all knew that we were on the brink of groundbreaking work. So we knew that it required a level of tenacity and grit and business acumen as well. But I mean, literally my boss at the time was 25 and she was a vice president of like product development, especially now, again, having founded a company, it's really important for people to be trained to understand how to thrive in those environments.

27:57And I do think that unfortunately it was difficult because we were all learning on the job and then it becomes frustrating when your job is not translating or your team is not performing. No one wanted to disappoint or let Emily down. So we all were working to make sure that, you know, we were living up to this big, bigger than life idea, which caused a lot of tension, especially when you're pivoting and you've never done this before. Like, you know, I've never touched the product side before. So here I am learning on the job, but also expecting to deliver a plus plus plus work because of where the company was at the time.

28:33Diarrha N'Diaye:Exciting in certain ways. Like learning is uncomfortable, fundamentally, like growth is uncomfortable. When you're stretching in all of these ways, it's not easy breezy. It can be extremely difficult. Did you feel like you got anything over the line that you wanted to? Did you feel like you were contributing in the way that you wanted to? Oh, absolutely. And I think I learned so much about myself because, again, going back to L 'Oreal, there was so much politics around simply who's going to present in the boardroom. more like you find yourself teaching your manager what you put in the deck to then have your manager present to this person.

29:11But at Glossier, I do think that I flexed a little bit of my presentation skills, having to go and convince an entire room. Some people were literally on the tech side, never understood beauty. I'm like, would this land on you? Would you understand this if I were to make this a marketing campaign? Having to kind of get into sales a little bit internally. So I learned that. I also learned that it is what you make it. I was doing things that were new to me, like Ramadan series and bringing in speakers at the office to be able to share a little bit more of my culture and things like that, which felt very liberating, which was not happening at L 'Oreal.

29:49And I also learned a lot from my peers, you know, what it meant to have dye lines, what it meant to have frosted versus, you know, champagne colored this and this and that. And it was beautiful to be learning from people who cared so much about their craft. Then very tactically, like I was responsible for pitching and creating and bringing things to market like Future Do, which is one of their top selling SKUs to this day, having to do the hard thing, which is relaunching the serums and understanding what about it wasn't selling, which SKUs were selling and how are we going to make it better and actually doing that.

30:24So going to the laboratory, making the formulas more efficacious, making them larger fill size, working with finance to understand what we were pricing at, then working with the art team to understand like, okay, what's going to be the campaign? And you would see Emily running around with her cape and all these things. It was so exhilarating to really see it come to fruition. The highs were highs and the lows were really low.

30:46Diarrha N'Diaye:Wow. That, I mean, like my brain is just spinning, thinking about how to get up to speed on all of these different things. Like you're building the plane while you're flying it. Oh my God, Hilary, I would literally have to learn what is retinol? What does it do to the skin? What type of skin type does it actually affect? And then building a product and then asking this contract manufacturer or chemist, what dosage is in every single pump of this? Like it was down to the science of having to figure it all out, how to do clinical trials. I empathize with myself now, but I was also really hard on myself at the time.

31:23I was trying to prove myself. It was a big ego thing as well to come here and like embarrass Emily or embarrass myself. You know, it was a big learning lesson.

31:32Diarrha N'Diaye:So what was the catalyst for deciding to leave Glossier for that coming to an end? Yeah, I got fired. I got fired and it was because they were bringing in, you know, a big girl team, as I would say now, the likes of Estee Lauder to come in and help them graduate from this darling brand to possible billion dollar company. Well, I think at the time it was valued that. So they were kind of bringing in that, not to their fault at all. People coming in from Estee Lauder, like, what do you mean? You've never done product development. We got things to do. So despite, you know, being on a pip, trying to prove myself and really doing excellent on the pip, but still it wasn't enough.

32:14And I still got the red light that, you know, this would be the end of my time, which was a very tough pill to swallow.

32:22Diarrha N'Diaye:Especially because you've been giving it your all and also had not been set up for success in so many ways, which was like, that's fine until it's not. And that's painful. Oh my God. I was giving 200%. Like I was working in the office until like midnight, honestly, sometimes. So how do you go from that to then starting your own brand, which I mean, like makes sense in a thousand ways, but also like, I love that your response was, you don't think I'm good at this. Well, I'm going to triple down and I'm going to start my own brand and watch me develop products and create a whole world for Amikole.

33:01Diarrha N'Diaye:Like talk to me about that. You know, it's funny in hindsight, me asking the questions of the director of marketing, of the head of product development, the lead chemist, that taught me a lot. That taught me all the skills that I needed to bring into Ami Kole. So it was always really whispering in the back of my mind. Like I literally created the first logo of Ami Kole in 2014 when I was working at Tem2. I put it so far away. I was just always think about it and always kind of dream. So yes, I was definitely on fire and definitely felt like I had so much to prove to myself even. I'm like, I know I can do this.

33:40I know that I'm trusted in this way. And I know that I'm good at my job in terms of trying to figure out the best products to put to market. So let's see what happens without any of the noise and what I could do with that. In between those days, I went to Thailand, solo tripped out there and did the classic Eat, Pray, Love. And I just kept asking myself over and over again, like, what next? Like, what is the biggest brand that you can work for? There was no other brand, honestly, at the time that was exciting me. So I'm like, okay, maybe I'll do my own thing. Maybe I'll put that on the universe and see what happens.

34:12And I started to do that. And, you know, I just kept the journal and I was really manifesting and I had nothing but time. I was that really granular about like, what would it be? What would it look like? What would it be inspired by? And like, I just kept dreaming up all these scenarios and it fabricated the DNA of Amico Le.

34:28Diarrha N'Diaye:What did you finalize? Like when you had done all of that work, what was the offering? At this time, the beginning offering before I did the market research, because I would later come back home and actually start working on like, okay, I need to prove this concept. But the beginning was how do I create an effortless, timeless approach to beauty that actually was multicultural in every grain of it and have it be amazing quality, have it be in beautiful spaces and be able to share spaces like Glossier. But what I as a consumer was missing was that elevated brand experience with the quality. There was always some trade-off.

35:06I find a brand, it would be the right shade of lipstick, but it would fall out the bullet. Or I would go to Duane Reade, I finally get my tube of skin tint, but the third time I go in there, I hear that it's like sold out or I can never get it. So I was just trying to really tap into accessibility with price point and actual, you know, where to buy elevation in terms of branding, storytelling, visually, but then also having it be reflective of my people. Honestly, it stayed true to that. I thought it would be no makeup, but that proves to be true after I started using all of 2019, really just researching, emailing friends and going to seminars and whatever, you know, house party that was, I would be sneaking off to the bathroom to figure out what was in your makeup bag and like what shade of NARS and MAC and everything you were using.

35:56I had like almost 400 people in my arsenal that I have learned from and knew exactly what they wanted. And the thesis remained true. Like I just want to know make a makeup brand that was good for me, both for my skin in terms of what I'm putting on my body, but also seeing the best version of me. And the industry at the time had just been scratching the surface. The makeup brands for women of color specifically at the time were very fierce brands like Fenty and all these brands that really use color in a different way as a form of self-expression where I was kind of swinging the pendulum the other way, where it was really about skin first and really just seeing yourself and feeling good about yourself.

36:36Because I knew that was true for me as a consumer. Ironically, the less makeup I wore, the more confident I felt. So that was really my love letter in many sorts. And by the end of that, I felt like, okay, we got our assortment, we got our thesis, and I think we're ready to actually go to market.

36:51Diarrha N'Diaye:So how was the financial piece of this? Because I've had a number of beauty founders on this podcast over the years. And as we always discuss, and this is true of many industries, there's so much money that's required upfront. And especially whenever you're dealing with anything with complexion, because not only getting the colors right, but then making sure you have the assortment. There's so much expenditure upfront. So how were you thinking about the finances? Because you've publicly said that raising a friends and family round was not an option for you. You were aware of the infuriating and persistent statistics around investing in Black founders, let alone female founders.

37:30Diarrha N'Diaye:So how were you thinking about all of this as you were preparing to go to market? Let alone the solo founder is also that elephant in the room as well, you know, coming to the table by yourself is also for any business person is just really tough. But to be real, I didn't really know where the money was coming from. I knew eventually that I would fundraise. And I even called Emily. I'm like, listen, I want to do this thing and I want to fundraise. And she did warn me. She was like, you know, not everything needs to be fundraised. And I think I didn't get enough of the cliff notes to understand what she meant by that.

38:06It was just very blanketed. It was like a 30 minute meeting and I'm like squeezing everything in. The issue here in terms of bootstrapping or of course, friends and family was that because I started off with the hardest category, which is complexion, which has multiple SKUs, which is sold online, which is so capital intensive. Then there's also the element of not having a proven track record. So a lot of these contract manufacturers are sometimes willing to work with your minimum quantities or not. So I had to really hustle to get it down from like 10 ,000 minimum quantities per shade down to about like 2000.

38:45So I knew the framework or the land of where I was working as I evolved with really kind of materializing this company. I started to list out the use of funds and what I needed. I think the biggest mistake though that I made was like I forecasted just enough. That's if we sell and we sell through over six months. And my science was too exacting because I was going into the world thinking I'm going to ask for just enough, not over that. I don't want to waste anyone's money and everything's going to go perfectly because I've done this before. So naive. And what should have been possibly 10 million, $5 million I did in 1 million, which is great because you're kind of scrapping and you're showcasing that you're able and capable, but when you blow out of your forecast in one day, and now you don't have inventory for six months, that sounds great as a stat, but now you lost money for six months.

39:41So down to the last day, we could not get the demand and supply correct. We took a lot of learning. Even from a personal perspective, I was still consulting to pay my bills. This was a year between me ideating and actually getting my funding. So that too was also interesting to have the hustle on both sides, you know, working with the likes of Jenna Lyons and being her ghostwriter and starting her beauty brand. It was all a lot. It was all naive and all very ambitious, but I think it was all also very magical how much we were able to do within that time and within the finite resources.

40:19Diarrha N'Diaye:So talk to me a little bit about your assortment for launch and how that went. Absolutely. So it was grid tight. So we gave you skin, we gave you lip, and a little bit of highlighter just to kind of allude to the ethos of the brand, really kind of seeing and celebrating that glow. So skin tint, because number one, it was the main pain point for this customer. One important thing, obviously, is I used to work at Sephora selling skin tints, foundations, and every time that customer walked into the door, I'd be like ready to run to the back because I knew we didn't have anything for her. And I was embarrassed, you know?

40:53So fast forward, I knew that there was still a lot of innovation, taking Korean technology like Kojin Do and how it sat on skin and then taking a little bit of the airbrush finish, like what we loved about it, the staying powder, but also making it feel light, making it feel stretchy and all those things. And also, we're silent light. So there's no way that we could start with 50 shades because we didn't have the money for it. But also, you know, that conversion rate is really tough if you don't have literally the flexibility within shade range. So that was really important for us. And I knew that the number one makeup product for women of color was lip gloss.

41:28So I started with the lip gloss, but I elevated it. I'm like, okay, what's going on? Like, what do we love? We had that classic dollar lip gloss that we love from the drug supply store, which was just pure mineral oil that burn your lips. As soon as you walked outside, there has to be some innovation here. So, you know, I sat down, I'm like, how do I dream up this cushiony lip oil that's a glossy effect, but also takes care of your lips at the same time. And the first year, our skin tint actually was our number one seller. And then it just skewed over the years to be the lip oil, but the assortment was very tight.

42:00We just wanted to make sure we had the best of each.

42:03Diarrha N'Diaye:Yeah, that makes sense. So talk to me a little bit about the Sephora piece of things, because you are on Sephora shelves very quickly in your journey. There can be hardship that comes along with that, that Sephora can be a great partner, but also an exacting partner. And not only that, but there's a level of like distribution and other sorts of things that you were contending with for the first time. What was that relationship like? So the relationship was honestly great. It was very interesting because I had been like seven months pregnant and I had won the WWD newcomer of the year. And I'm like waddling down to, you know, the Rockefeller Center to this beautiful breakfast that I was awarded this.

42:51And I walk in there and they, you know, give a presentation on the brand and I'm sitting there and the key merchants obviously are there, Allison Hahn and Artemis. And at the end, they're like, you know what, you're building something beautiful. If you really think Sephora could be a home for you, we should talk. I was like, what? I was like, I wasn't expecting this. I was like trying myself to come here today. And I had been already in talks with another big retailer and I was very close to signing on the dotted line. So I think the universe definitely laid that out for me because, you know, I think Sephora really honors brands and the brand storytelling and the positioning and they know how to work their machine.

43:32And that's why they can be exacting and sometimes feel a little taxing, but they want to get in the kitchen with you. And I was open to that because I knew that I had a lot to learn. And I knew that I wanted to win. I want to go into a space where I'm welcomed and I can have the hands-on support to be able to kind of puzzle this together. Still early, you know, to be on D2C for only one year and then to turn on 250 doors, you know, when you're still trying to figure out who your customer is and how you can get better price breaks, for instance, with your products. And then now working within a beast that is Sephora.

44:09It was like a shot of cold water every day, trying to figure out the solutions to everything and still do a good job on the shelf.

44:18Diarrha N'Diaye:That feels very overwhelming, just to put it mildly. And you're a first-time founder who's barely been doing it. And you're a parent that's doing a lot all at the same time. It is. It felt that way, still feels that way. It was a lot. You don't want to let any of your partners down, whether that was investors, Sephora, you know, we all were trying to figure it out. I think the great thing about Sephora is that they were willing to have those conversations to learn. One of our biggest questions is like, how do we get a wider multicultural audience in the door? And we were just beginning to have those conversations before our fate.

44:56But those conversations take time. It takes some kind of buy-in, you know, coming back to the L 'Oreal way of life of how slowly things happen. But I will say once they happen, though, they stick and they stay because they've been processed and they've been diligence set up for success. Now I can honor process, but you also have to have buy-in across the table. So, yeah, it was interesting.

45:19Diarrha N'Diaye:Talk to me about your own role during this time, because to be the operator and to be the creative visionary, those are very different skill sets and difficult to combine. So what part felt like a natural fit? And what part did you have to work at? And what did you love? And what did you think like, this will never be my favorite part of the job? Absolutely. And taking a few steps back, I knew that I didn't want to be the operator per se. And I had worked really hard to try to find a partner to sit in that seat. And it just never worked out, unfortunately. So that in itself was very difficult, but business moves on.

46:03So I had to step into that role. So now what my role entails, for those you may not know, CEO, you're doing everything from investor relations between fundraising, reporting out your earnings and loss and hiring and firing. For me, I was also doing HR. I was hiring. I was firing. I'm giving you the email and contact to call JustWorks to make sure your benefits kick in. I'm giving you laptop equipment like I was doing it all. It's tough because, yes, it drained me, but it had to get done. I never wanted to sit in on investor calls for an hour a month, you know, going over line by line and P &L, what went up and down by two points or three points where I thrived.

46:47And I think where Amikoli really shined was product development, product quality, community, forward facing education, even retail partnerships. I had a great partnership with Sephora and getting out there and having them buy in on certain innovations. That was my bread and butter. But many a times that was like 25 % of my job where 75 % of my work was doing all the executive orchestrating to make sure that the ship stayed afloat.

47:12Diarrha N'Diaye:So I want to talk a little bit about how you have such loyal, incredible fans. And we were all heartbroken to hear that the brand was closing. And you had won so many awards. I want to say like over 80 awards for your skin tints and lip oils. You were one of Oprah's favorite things. Like everyone who had any interaction with the brand loved it. Talk to me about some of the other moments during this time that you were like, wow, we really did that right. These were big hallmarks of success. And then let's talk about closing. Wow. Success really, I think the most successful moments for me were the personal ones.

47:54I know having the New York Times come to my childhood space of the salon and capturing images of me and my mother together, you know, that was out of this world, being in the same section as like Andre Leontali's honorary, you know, after his passing. So it was just so surreal to understand the scale and the importance, honestly, of the story. It was well beyond myself. It was really the power of representation, the power of having this little seed come from, you know, Harlem and all the intricacies of it to make it to this global stage. I think those really hit home just watching my mom's eyes.

48:33second i would have to say you know having that person especially the larger influencers that i've been watching and consuming and working with over my career having them validate the brand felt different and it wasn't in like an egocentric way it was really from a product perspective because undertones are so difficult and it was the main conversation at the time where as we evolved there had been many other brands that came to market but there was something about the undertones and the magic and the intentionality of the brand. It's always the first swatch that to this day gives me butterflies.

49:08Like when Jackie like does the first one, like, okay, let me try this company. Cause you know, they get so many products and then they're like, whoa, this is really good. And coming in and getting that retention, those were the sweetest moments to see that not only are you discovering the brand, seeing yourself, but you love it. You know, it's not really a marketing hype. It's really the products will speak for itself. And because I worked so hard on it, those are the moments where I felt successful.

49:36Diarrha N'Diaye:Talk to me about deciding to close. Did that happen quickly? Were there signs? What were the last few months like? Yeah, I think honestly, I'm a Kolei, despite how grand it felt in the media, after year two, it was always the engine that could or would, right? And we just kept going. just kept going. We'd get a big win and they would give us another second life or another wind. And we just kept going, but there were signs, but it didn't signal the fate. And I know a lot of business owners can relate. Like you are just close of like running out of money and someone comes and saves you, whether that's investment, whether that's a influencer from UK that suddenly sold you out.

50:20And now you've got a huge influx of cash where one week you're making 40 ,000 and the next week you're making$150 ,000, right? So just level setting the forecast demand was really difficult. And I can't help but also talk about the context of the macro economy as well. TikTok changed the game, the creator industry changed the game where literally overnight, things can just go crazy and then you can't replicate it and then you're stuck with inventory. We had a lot of overbuying of inventory and then underbuying of inventory because we didn't have enough time to pattern recognize. And I think there should have been tighter approach to inventory in general, which is a huge learning for any CPG brand.

51:02And the climate got tighter and tighter and tighter. And despite having all of the signals in terms of market fit, is this founder on the right track? They were there. You know, Sephora bought in and continued to evolve us and had patience with us. And the customer kept showing up every single launch. We have a best in beauty award coming out tomorrow for the brand. This is our fifth best in beauty award by Allure magazine, the Grammys of beauty. So it was very hard to swallow these pills of like, I understand there are things broken, but they're not unfixable things to not fund this company. And we have to talk about the fact that in 2019, 0.4 % of women of color got funding.

51:48Then it jumped up to 1.6%. I was a part of the 1.6%. Thank you. We're excited. We're making strides. We're back to 0.2 % now. So we're back to worse than 2019. So yes, I can allude to all the mistakes that my business has made, of course, but I don't think that they're unique mistakes. And I think every investor can tell you that. Not enough to snuff the life of a company and the brand. So for me, we're getting close to the wire and we do all the things that we're told to do, expansion, new team, you know, slowing down the pipeline, being intentional and all these things. When you put that all on the table and it still isn't enough, I, as a person, as a human being, I have to ask the question of like, how far can I take this?

52:32Especially as a solo founder, I'm not giving enough oxygen to actually prove and show and tell. And in fact, closer to the end of our tenure, we were actually doing the best that we did in many years. That's so messed up. So much so that we talked to one of our bank loans. They're like, what do you mean you're shutting down? You haven't had these numbers in years. What's going on? I'm like, well, here are the stats. Here's the reality. And here's also the market. The climate is really rigid right now as well. So, so many things kind of compiled. And I think at the end of it, I really had to beg the question after not finding the right partner to continue this brand.

53:08And I I think I got to take the very tough decision to shut this company down. And if we were to come back, sit down and recalibrate in a way that is sustainable, not only for me as a human being, for the company, for the legacy of the company, and more importantly, for the customer to get her exactly what she wants, what she deserves at a price point that makes sense. All of that takes time. And as they say, time is money. You really do need time to be your safety net. But when everything is like the wheels against the concrete, you burn. We burned really badly. So this is no longer, which is a very, very tough decision, but equally liberating with all the odds that I was against.

53:46Diarrha N'Diaye:And I have to say the way that you've handled all of this publicly, your transparency, the video that you posted to TikTok about the closure, the perspective that you gave, the way that you framed it. going back to storytelling. And I don't mean that to say in a calculated way, but in an earnest and honest way, as it should be framed about using this story, using your story as motivation rather than a reason to give up. It moved me to tears when I was watching it because there's so much that's macro that's out of your control in this whole situation. And it's so irritating and frustrating and it's like right brand, wrong timing to a degree, just from a financial climate perspective and like the way that you have communicated with such honor and such grace and such, again, motivation.

54:36Diarrha N'Diaye:You've done such a phenomenal job. And I hope you know that there are so many people out there who have been watching and following and appreciate you and all that you have built and what you have done. And we are rooting for you. And we know that whatever you do moving forward and whatever you have done in the past, like It is incredible what you built. Thank you so much. I really hear you and I really do receive you. And I'm trying my best throughout this process to be as present as possible because I do know that this moment will probably never happen again. And I recognize that it's far beyond myself.

55:15And I think the entrepreneurial journey is such a crazy, lonely, unnatural journey and pace of which we show up as leaders, going to show up as moms, as wives, as friends. You give your business so much that you don't even recognize yourself in the mirror and we wake up and we do it again. And I think it's so easy to forget all of those times when you don't get that big shiny toy. And I'm trying to not allow myself to get there because I know that I tried my best so I can only walk away in peace. As you should. I just want to make sure that people do not think that they need to be discouraged by the story.

55:57Diarrha N'Diaye:No. I mean, whatever you do next, you have a whole world that's supporting you. You built something really special. And I appreciate the generosity of your spirit all the way through up to this interview and beyond that you are willing to talk about it and shed some light on it for our audience. Because I think that we as women often hide things. It leads into my next question, which is about mistakes because we all make them, but we don't always talk about it because we all feel like, especially high-performing women feel like we have to give the highlight Instagram perfect version of everything.

56:36Diarrha N'Diaye:We don't always talk about the difficult stuff and you've been talking about the difficult stuff and we all need to hear it. And so with that, when you do look back on everything that you've built in your career, What mistake could you tell us about that you've made and something that you've learned from it? Knowing when to ask for help. I think that naturally as an immigrant, you know, child and having been taught not to extend yourself beyond what you have in front of you, walking in front of your team and not saying, Hey guys, this is where we are, you know, and like, I need you guys to step up and need your help.

57:14And I think that I have been able to open myself up to understand asking for help does not mean that you're weak or that you're a failure. And once again, especially when women are at the helm, you're penalized for those things like, hey, I need an hour extra in the mornings because I'm really tired because actually while you're sleeping, my dear, I'm breastfeeding every two hours. So actually I'm starting at 11 AM, not 8 30 AM. And these are the things that you have to ask for for your sanity. Yeah.

57:47Diarrha N'Diaye:So a lot of the folks who listen to this podcast are in their first lives and they know that they want to do something different. Maybe it's the same industry, but a different aspect, or maybe they want to change industries altogether. As someone who has made pivots in her own career, what advice would you give someone who's standing there thinking about it, but just hasn't made the leap quite yet? You have to get out of your head. That story that you're telling yourself is all make-believe. And I think this is what men are excellent with, the point of delusion. And I think tactically, what that meant for me is I would rip out two papers.

58:30One, I would write down the narrative if that's true for me at that moment, right? I can't do this because of this and this is happening because of that. And then this is the, you know, this is my glass ceiling. All of the things I believe to be true. Then I would go to the next paper and I would write down in my dream delusional state, what does that look like? Oh my God, I'm abundant. I'm ease. I'm like, my nerves are calm. And it's insane. When you look at both of those stories that it's the same person that held the pen and that both of them could be true, but it's up to you to choose which one to be true.

59:08In both scenarios, more than likely, the resources aren't different. The people in your lives aren't different. It's just a mindset. And I think a lot of times, like I wouldn't dare ask that person. I wouldn't dare do that thing. Like, who do I think I am? And it's just so dumb. So you gotta get out of your head and you gotta let it out. You gotta write it down so you can reread. Sometimes I write it down, I close the book and I'll wait until like a week later to reread that to understand like, who is this person? How did she get here? And how do I help her? How do I get her out of this hole to then come meet me here?

59:44So a lot of it is reframing your mindset. It's a real thing, the way we speak to ourselves and what we manifest. So my last question is my favorite one, which is if you could go back in time and speak with

59:58Diarrha N'Diaye:your younger self and give your younger self some advice, what would you say? Be patient. Okay. Your work will be seen. You are on time. There is no clock, my dear, and you will supersede your wildest dreams. You know, if you just trust yourself, that intuition is really real. And it's so funny, even when it comes to burnout, all the things that I went against my intuition were the main sources of my burnout. The journey is the destination. This is it. This doesn't end. Right. I look forward to seeing everything that happens in the future. Please know that when you're on your third life, we'll still be here and you should come back and talk to us about it.

1:00:46And I just wanted to say thank you for taking the time for your candor and for

1:00:52Diarrha N'Diaye:creating a truly remarkable brand. Thank you so much for having me. One of my dream podcasts.

1:01:05Diarrha N'Diaye:That was Ami Kole founder and CEO, Jara Njai. For more inspiring interviews with women like Jara, head on over to secondlifepod.com where we have so many more for you to peruse. If you like today's show, please subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. And don't forget to rate and review us. We love seeing you spread the word on social. And now you can tag us in your posts. We are at Second Life Pod on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook. We always want to know who you're interested in hearing from on the show. So send in your requests to hello at secondlifepod.com or you can DM us on Instagram.

1:01:46Diarrha N'Diaye:I'm at Hilary Kerr. The show is at Second Life Pod. Our DMs are always open. I'm Hilary Kerr, and you've been listening to Second Life. This episode was produced by Hilary Kerr, Summer Hammeris, and Natalie Thurman. Our production assistant is Raven Yamamoto. Our editor is Natalia Perez. Our audio engineers are at Treehouse Recording in Los Angeles, California, and our music is by Jonathan Leahy.