Irene Chen: Cofounder of Parker Thatch

11:37Irene Chen:Wow. Okay. So yeah, that feels kind of like one is cool and like a soul fit, but nebulous. And the other is like structured and clear. And especially if you're making a giant industry shift, I understand why you would take that job. Totally.

11:53Matthew Grenby:And they were like, we're going to move you here because I didn't have an apartment. You know, like it was all very structured.

11:58Irene Chen:They're going to give you the whole shebang. Yes, please.

12:01Matthew Grenby:You know, so it was very clear what I was doing. I was still a kid, you know, like I was in my early 20s.

12:07Irene Chen:That's sexy. No one does that anymore. I know. I was like, this is awesome.

12:11Matthew Grenby:This is crazy. And so that's how I made my decision because it just seemed a lot clearer, I think. It's a lesson in what's good for your soul and your heart. And you kind of had that gut feeling versus what was in my brain. Like, you know, logically, this made sense.

12:24Irene Chen:Well, you know, and I think that's like sort of the journey for many of us as women in particular. I truly believe it's a superpower of our gut intuition. But I think a lot of us, especially when we're young, and I'm speaking for myself, we make certain choices because we're like, oh, well, the data says, or it seems good on paper, or someone tells us that's the way we should be thinking. And we don't always listen to the gut because it's just vibes. I think the older you get, the more you understand vibes are telling you more than you realize. Oh, 100%. But when you're young, you're like, well, on paper, I should do this.

12:59Irene Chen:100%, right?

13:00Matthew Grenby:So I called Mary and I was like, thank you so much. I love meeting you, but I think I'm going to have to go with this job. And she was so cool. She's like, I get it. Very cool. And so I started working at Calvin Klein.

13:10Irene Chen:You left it on a good note.

13:12Matthew Grenby:I guess it was a practice also in vulnerability. You know, I really laid it out there and I was like, I feel like this is a better fit because I understand this logically a little bit more.

13:21Irene Chen:A better fit for now. For now.

13:23Matthew Grenby:Yes, exactly. So I went to Calvin and I started working at Calvin in the 90s. And you could imagine what that was like.

13:29Irene Chen:I can't imagine because I feel like all of us just got a little glimpse into it of like no colorful flowers and folks smoking in the office and everyone being super chic.

13:39Matthew Grenby:It was 100 % right.

13:41Irene Chen:Paperclip colors and all. Everything. I was like, what is going on? Yeah.

13:45Matthew Grenby:I got in there and it was like I was at a car wash. It was just like, OK, let's get you in the closet. And it was just this crazy like, here's all these outfits and this is what you need to do with your hair.

13:55Irene Chen:Jetsons meets Austin Powers. Like we're putting you through the machine.

14:00Matthew Grenby:If you have long hair, you need to pull it back. It was like all these rules, no makeup. Like it was just very clear what we needed to do. And I had short hair, so I needed to kind of coat my back in a weird way. So it was interesting. That was my first day of work.

14:12Irene Chen:And I was like, where am I?

14:14Matthew Grenby:This is insane.

14:15Irene Chen:That is crazy. That is an actual like makeover transformation. How interesting.

14:21Matthew Grenby:I know, but it was kind of exciting at the same time. Like, oh, I get all these cool clothes. Like, this is so cool. And like, you know, there's all these rules because I was working on the floor that Calvin was on. So it was very, very important that you had to look a certain way and conduct yourself in a certain way. It was interesting.

14:36Irene Chen:Wow. Okay. So what was the job like? What was your role like in the licensing department? Like it had seemed clear up to that point when you actually got in, was it clear? Was it something that you liked? It was crazy because there's only two of us

14:51Matthew Grenby:and the hours were Asian hours. So my job really was the go-betweener where I would get all the samples in, work with the designers. And, you know, I was the liaison between the license in Japan and the product. But there were so many products that did not exist here. So we had socks and umbrellas and all these weird products that were not in the US. It was really moving information back and forth because again, there were no computers at that time, but it was all day, all night. There was no sleeping.

15:21Irene Chen:I am blown away. I had not thought through the logistics of all of that. That feels like such a vibe shift, to put it mildly. I mean, that also seems like it's not a sustainable way of working. How long did you stay in that role?

15:35Matthew Grenby:So then, of course, I moved there. I got an apartment. Everything was already set into place, right? And I had new clothes. This is like, you know, great. But then I'm like, this is miserable. I can't do this, you know? And I was also very alone, you know, because I was the only person there, really, because my boss was in Japan most of the time. And everyone at Calvin is in their silos and really serious. I was just not happy. So, oh my God, you know, I've moved all my stuff here. I don't know what I'm doing, but I really love New York and I love fashion and I love doing this. So I don't know how and where I got the strength to be like, I'm going to go back to Mary and see if I can get that job back at Donna Karan.

16:12Irene Chen:Are we talking like six months in a year in pretty much like six months in not

16:16Matthew Grenby:very long.

16:17Irene Chen:Okay. So you go back to Mary at Donna Karan. You ended up in a job as director of product development, correct?

16:24Matthew Grenby:Yes. But it took me a while to figure out what I wanted to do there. I went back to her and I told her, honestly, this is what happened. And I think I made a really bad mistake.

16:34Irene Chen:Vulnerability part two. Yeah.

16:36Matthew Grenby:And I owe a lot to her, you know, as a mentor. And I don't know where she got the kindness to be like, okay, all right, I'll take you back. And that's when I went back to Donna Karan. And that's where I really then started to excel at what I was doing, because I felt like it was just a really cool environment at that time. And it was such a difference for me personally, from Calvin flying to Donna Karan was like night and day. It was very woman empowered there.

17:01Irene Chen:There were men running,

17:02Matthew Grenby:but it was mostly women running everything. And it was easy to work in. Everyone was chill and everyone was really funny. It was just the right vibe for me.

17:11Irene Chen:So for our folks who don't know, what is a director of product development?

17:15Matthew Grenby:So product development person, and it's different from company to company, but at Donagaron, there's a merchandising team and there's the design team. And what they really noticed was merchants run the numbers and then there's the designers, but there was a missing link between those two divisions. So it would be somebody who could kind of be the bridge between the design team and the merchants. Because in fashion, like in the old days, the design team did not want any of the numbers people in there because they just wanted to design. They don't want you telling them like, oh, you got to change the button.

17:44Matthew Grenby:It's too expensive.

17:45Irene Chen:The merchant's going to cramp their creativity as the energy that I'm getting. Yes.

17:50Matthew Grenby:But then again, there were no computers at the time, right? So then everyone was working in their silos. You know, like there was a gap where we needed to marry the two and the information needed to be relayed back and forth or else it'd be too late and then you're stuck with product that the designers didn't want, you know, or this was too expensive and we could have stopped it. So for some reason, I was just the person where they're like, okay, maybe you could be the go-betweener because I kind of fit into both worlds.

18:14Irene Chen:So like the finance background probably helped with that merchant side of things. Okay. I see that. And then the consulting piece was like, oh, I know how to talk to lots of different people. Maybe. Right.

18:26Matthew Grenby:And then I really loved, you know, like the design part of it. So I think the designers felt comfortable with me being in the room that kind of allowed for me to be in both worlds. And I really knew that I want to learn how to make things like versus just numbers and ordering things. So I had the opportunity when DKNY had a licensing agreement with a jeans company that blew up right before it was supposed to launch. So we took it back and then we had to launch this thing and we had to make an entire line in probably like two months. It was insane. So me and the designer who actually worked with me at Calvin Klein, she came back to Donna Karan to work on this.

19:03Matthew Grenby:And the two of us somehow were like, oh my God, I was with you at Calvin Klein. And she was the one who was like, you know what, if you have a chance to go back to Donna Karan, you should. They're amazing there. So she really was like a pivotal person when I was at Calvin Klein. Just fortuitously, we got to work together. And the two of us somehow in two months put an entire line together. It was crazy. So I really learned right there on the job how to make a product from zero to 100.

19:29Irene Chen:I mean, that's some excellent training for anything. I love that. Okay. So while you're getting all this crazy experience around the same time, you met your now business partner and husband. So talk to me a little bit about your meet cute.

19:45Matthew Grenby:Oh my gosh. Okay. So I was still working at Donna Karen and the division I was working with got purchased by Liz Playborn. So we were moving over there and it just wasn't a good fit for me. And I was like, Oh my God, like this is so different from what I used to do, you know, and it was also close to the year 2000. And so my sister was dating one of my husband's friends at the time from school. And he was starting a new company that actually worked with Barneys and J. Crew and Faragamo and they were building out their websites basically for commerce. And so So that's how we met. And he's like, well, do you want to come work with me?

20:20Matthew Grenby:Because you have this fashion background, maybe you could do something here. And so I was like, okay. So then I decided to go and work with that group. It was just at the time when everything was booming and everything was crazy and no one knew what they're doing. No one had a website.

20:34Irene Chen:I remember this time very fondly and very well from my Nokia phone. Oh my God. Okay. Right. It was crazy. Yeah. Okay. So you decided to join this group. What was your job? What were you doing? and how did that go?

20:47Matthew Grenby:So we went there and that's how I met Matt because Matt has a design and tech background. So he was there and I was there and we were all meeting and I was like, oh, this guy's kind of cool. So one of their clients was Lianfeng, which is a big manufacturing company. So they were trying to figure out how they can utilize tech to consolidate orders from very small mom and pop shops and aggregate the orders to make one big order. So they would get a great price for, let's say, a tennis shirt or a golf shirt. So that was kind of where I was. And I was working with Lee and Fong to kind of figure out how to use tech and bring together and consolidate these tiny little mom and pop shops to be a giant hoarder.

21:30Irene Chen:Interesting. Yeah, it was

21:31Matthew Grenby:really interesting and very forward thinking at the time.

21:34Irene Chen:So how did you go from that to then starting an e-stationary brand?

21:39Matthew Grenby:I know, it's so crazy why life is so nuts. So Matt and I were together and Matt again has that tech background and we were always like in San Francisco or New York. So somehow he figured out how to send me an email, but both of us love stationery. So he figured out how to make a beautiful like e-stationary through email. And I always remember that as being like, wow, this is remarkable. And first of all, email was remarkable at the time, right? So to get a beautifully designed note with handwriting was just like, it blew my brain. I was like, wow, this is nuts. That was always in the back of my head.

22:14Matthew Grenby:And then the dot-com time blew up. And then also Matt's mom, unfortunately got very sick and they lived in Australia. So it was kind of a weird time for both of us to just be like, maybe we just go and help your dad in Australia and take a little time off. So we had the great fortune of going to Australia for about six to eight months and having some time off from our crazy lives. And so then we were there and I was like, I don't know if I want to go back to work, but what can we do? The two of us have these skillsets. We've worked at amazing places. What can we do as two people? And then that's where I was like, do you remember that weird e-stationary you sent me?

22:51Irene Chen:I think that's

22:52Matthew Grenby:something interesting. And then, so that's where we decided in Australia, maybe let's give it a go and build this thing.

22:58Irene Chen:Were you at all worried about working with your partner? For some reason, no. It was so weird.

23:03Matthew Grenby:It was just because we both had very separate skillsets and we also So really admired what each other can do. And I think that's the foundation.

23:13Irene Chen:I often think when folks ask me about like working with a partner, I'm like, make sure that the Venn diagram overlap of your skillset is as small as possible and that you think the other one is great at what they do because that it's very clear who does what and then you can actually like build something great together.

23:29Matthew Grenby:That is such great advice and I 100 % vouch for it. Yes.

23:33Irene Chen:How do you go from starting an e-stationary brand to then also developing it into physical product?

23:40Matthew Grenby:Well, no one understood it. We were way too early. So we basically had paperless posts before paperless posts. That's my best explanation for what the product looked like. Nobody understood it. And we were charging$10 a year. I don't know why, but we're like, well, we have to charge something because how are we going to survive? We have no money. All we have is this thing. But people kept writing in. They're like, we love this e-stationary, but I don't quite know if I use it. But where do I buy the actual paper with this design on it?

24:10Irene Chen:Because we had designed all these beautiful notes with these beautiful drawings.

24:13Matthew Grenby:So I'm like, okay, well, we have to survive and we could probably figure out how to make stationery. And we had all these designs, right? So Matt's like, okay, let's try that. So that's how we started selling stationery.

24:25Irene Chen:How did you figure out pricing and supply chain and all of that, that feels like a not insignificant detail.

24:33Matthew Grenby:It was insane, right? But thank God I had my product development background, so I could really figure out how to make stuff quickly. It's like little tiny dots. And that's what I always tell. Actually, my son had a graduation party and they were asking me like, well, how do you figure out what you want to do? And I said, you probably don't know what you want to do, but you collect skills and each skill is a little dot in your path. And then somehow these skills will all connect and then it will help you greatly in the future, but you have to be out there collecting skills. That's really what I believe in.

25:02Irene Chen:And skills you did collect. So we went from e-stationary to physical stationery to customizable homeware. Yes.

25:11Matthew Grenby:So I think the through line through every one of these products, even to today, is always foundation is functional, yet luxurious. And that's always my thing. And that's my DNA. I love things that are really luxurious, but they have to work and I have to use them in my life.

25:26Irene Chen:The opposite of a Fabergé egg, which is luxurious and nothing. And just sitting there all day collecting dust.

25:33Matthew Grenby:No. If you're going to buy something, you want to wear it. Wear it, mend it, love it. So that's how we went to making all these products.

25:41Irene Chen:Love it. So 2009 marked a very important shift for the company when you first started dipping your toe into handbags. Yes.

25:50Matthew Grenby:And again, very crazy, weird story. so everything that we did was customized so it was always monogrammed and all the stationery is mostly monogrammed so my husband came to me and he's like I think I figured out how you can actually print on 100 cotton and is there something you want to do with that and I was like oh my god are you joking this is like finally I get to make something that you can wear this is insane so I thought about it and I was like what would I want and I wanted a canvas tote because that was all I could do on cotton. But all the totes were like LL beanbags, so they're kind of triangular.

26:25Matthew Grenby:And I'm like, I want one that looks like a handbag, but not a handbag. So that's what we set out to make. And then at the time, everyone had those Goyard bags with a stripe. So I was like, how funny would it be to have this really chic canvas bag with a leather handle, but be striped and you can monogram it? Like, how cool would that look? So that's my idea. And then that's like, great, but we have no money to go get a pattern maker and have a factory make one bag. So I was like, hey, listen, this is crazy, Matt. But the lady who hemmed my pants at the dry cleaner, she has this little sign on her door that says she graduated from the Fashion Institute in San Francisco.

27:02Matthew Grenby:And she was always so great because I worked with all these tailors at Donna Karen, and I could tell when someone's an amazing tailor and sewer. So I was like, I'm going to go ask her. So I go to her and I was like, this sounds crazy, but I think you have this background. can I ask you to make me a pattern if I brought you this idea I don't know how to draw and I don't know how to do any of that stuff technically but I could tell you exactly what I want so she's like okay I'll try it and so she did she made the pattern and she made the first sample and so she made the body of the bag then we got canvas from Joanne's fabric and so I picked something that was the closest to 100 % cotton but the heaviest and then I'm like Matt this is the problem.

27:42Matthew Grenby:We don't have a leather guy to make the handles. Cause I really believe like we need

27:46Irene Chen:leather handles to make it feel luxurious.

27:48Matthew Grenby:So he's like, all right, well we could go to the saddle store and what do you think you could do? And I'm like, let's just cut two strips of leather. You can cut leather, right? And strips. And he's like, okay. And the only thing you could do is punch holes in it. And then there was these little rivets that we had to hammer into the holes. That was all we could do. Cause we had nobody, like, what were we doing? It was like two handles that were strips of leather. And so I was like, okay, let's do that. And so we had the lady make the body and punch holes into the bag. And then Matt would literally cut strips of leather on our kitchen counter.

28:19Matthew Grenby:And we had this crazy machine that you would put little rivets in, and we would be hammering these rivets into the bag. That's really literally how we made our first bag.

28:28Irene Chen:That is unbelievable.

28:30Matthew Grenby:And then at the time, there's no social media. Like, how do we get this thing out there? So fortunately, we just had amazing relationships with all the editors. They really were great the whole time, you know, with the e-stationary, with the home goods. And so we had great relationships. And I'm like, let's just send this back out. Let's send it out and see if we could get a gift guide. When you got a gift guide, that's when your business would just go insane.

28:51Irene Chen:The key placements were like gift guide and then daily candy. Daily candy. Yes. That was like the holy grail, right? Yeah. Move the needle. It was like website breaking, but the same thing. Like I remember like the competition I worked at L and saw like what went on around gift guides. I mean, it was crazy. That was, you know, like the best catalog anyone could ever ask for.

29:12Matthew Grenby:Oh yeah. A gift guide in L would have been like, you know, the Holy grail, right? You just knew you were going to make your Christmas. So I'm like, let's do it. Let's just send it out.

29:20Irene Chen:And this is the Mimi bag, right?

29:21Matthew Grenby:Yes. And I'm like, if we get one gift guide, I'd be happy. The thing was like the lottery. It came back and every magazine wanted to put it in their gift guide.

29:30Irene Chen:What were you pricing it for originally? It was, I think,$89 customized, but it was very, very laborious.

29:37Matthew Grenby:So we hit the jackpot. Lucky, Elle, like everybody was like, let's do this for the gift guide.

29:43Irene Chen:Lucky.

29:44Matthew Grenby:Lucky

29:44Irene Chen:was huge, right?

29:45Matthew Grenby:And so that was our Christmas and that's what happened with the bag.

29:49Irene Chen:That's nuts. And then you also had celebrity fans really early on too, right?

29:54Matthew Grenby:I mean, like still to this day, I have the note on my wall. It was Sophia Coppola because I love her style. So her assistant sent me an email and said, you know, Sophia really loves this bag, but she just wants her letters on the right-hand corner in yellow. This is something you can do.

30:10Irene Chen:For her. Yeah. So we figured it out

30:12Matthew Grenby:and we sent her a bag and she wrote a really beautiful thank you note. And I was like, oh my

30:16Irene Chen:God, this is insane.

30:17Matthew Grenby:But we, you know, sent out 10 bags. So then that Christmas, we had to figure how to make hundreds of bags. So that was another task in itself.

30:26Irene Chen:And then I remember Reese Witherspoon was another one who was a fan early on. Celebrity inclusion or celebrity buzz, sometimes that moves the needle, sometimes it doesn't. I'm always interested in like what actually will drive business or awareness. Did the celebrity piece of it make a big difference or was it just sort of a nice to have?

30:47Matthew Grenby:Huge. And again, it was a different time. I think if you asked me that question now, I would say maybe because sometimes it doesn't. It depends. But at that time, again, there was really no social media. So what you would see is if they were carrying the bag, it would be in all the magazines. It's like, look at her on the street. So it was huge for us.

31:08Irene Chen:So I also want to talk about at what point did you rebrand the company to Parker Thatch?

31:15Matthew Grenby:What happened was during this whole time, we had also the great fortune of meeting Kate Spade, because I used to do all the orders and I saw this giant order come in for Christmas. She used her maiden name and I was like, who is this person? And then so I was trying to figure it out because I wanted to make it perfect.

31:31Irene Chen:And then I was like, oh my God, this is Kate Spade.

31:33Matthew Grenby:She's buying our bag. And then she really liked all of our designs. We were doing a lot of stationary and invitations for her. So I developed this great relationship with her assistant because we were always getting things to them overnight. And then one night he's like, you know, I think you're really funny. And I think you would really get along with Katie for some reason, because you two are very similar. I'm like, OK. And they come out to Napa over the summer. So he's like, I think you guys should meet. And Katie is not very one for meeting new people at all. And then so over the summer, she came up and we had lunch and then our kids were the same age.

32:05Matthew Grenby:so I was older and 40s and when I met her it's hard to meet friends that you really actually want to get along with and really have a deep friendship so that was a rare thing so we met and then our families became very good friends and our kids became very good friends so that was a great thing for us but meeting them really allowed for us to really take our business from campus totes monogram totes to what you see now our company owns I am Wong and Andy's the ads guy He's like, you know, listen, guys, I love your product. I love what you guys do, but I can never remember how to spell it. People ask me where I got my bag.

32:42Matthew Grenby:I don't even know where to send them. He's like, and when your website is your main place where you do business, that's kind of a problem. So Andy actually was the one who was like, you guys need to change your name. So that's how we decided to change our name to Parker Thatch. Parker's my daughter and Thatch was my son. So that's why it became Parker Thatch. And everyone can spell it now. And it's so awesome.

33:01Irene Chen:And very personal too.

33:03Matthew Grenby:And very personal.

33:04Irene Chen:And as part of that rebrand, you also took the company to be less focused on the customization and more on creating product that really landed at that intersection of luxury and utility. So talk to me a little bit about the pivot and what that actually looked like in practice, because you never want to stop making something that's making you money, but you also need to evolve at the same time. So how did that work for you?

33:30Matthew Grenby:so what we were finding was this monogramming although it was very safe and it was very stable but we weren't really going in the direction we wanted to go so matt one day was like i can't do this anymore like i cannot be monogramming bags for the rest of my life we need to scale this thing and also at the time katie and annie were really telling us like the shift from just nylon and what we were comfortable with to leather was a big shift for them but it also she said listen a 10x fine business. So it was a great leap, but also you could really reap great benefits if you do it right.

34:03Irene Chen:It was Matt who was like, I'm not doing this. You guys need to figure this out.

34:06Matthew Grenby:As of this date, I am no longer monogrammed because he was monogramming each one of these bags. It was hours at night doing this. So I'm like, okay, what are we going to do? So we had to take the leap of faith and we knew that that was our bag. So I started with adding leathers and suede and different colors to that one model.

34:24Irene Chen:And what was the reaction like? It was crazy. It was so interesting.

34:28Matthew Grenby:We first started with color canvas because I thought, let's tiptoe our way into this. So we did really fun bags that were red, olive, navy. And then I'm like, okay, this is sort of working. And then what the sweet spot was, was actually a bag that was solid colors, but I did different color handles. So we do an olive color with unexpected red as a handle. And that was very different at the time. And so that took off. And then, And so it was great. So we did suede and then we started adding leather, but we were still just only doing that one bag, nothing else. And then I'm like, okay, let's do a smaller size, a bigger size.

35:01Matthew Grenby:And then we started adding different things, but it was scary. This is all we had. We didn't have other jobs. Both of us working together on this one thing. So we really took a gamble.

35:11Irene Chen:So talk to me about the Jack Bag, which you launched in 2024 and which was also another massive success made of heritage broken in leather has already sold out twice and currently has a very lengthy waiting list. What has this demand been like for you?

35:29Matthew Grenby:It's been crazy. Like, again, that was just something where I think when you get to where you are like a lot more secure with who you are as a person in the DNA, you figured out what your mission is with your company. I think that's where you can really figure out like that broken in leather was really crazy at the time. And it came from the idea of someone asking me like, Hey, Irene, would you ever carry a Birkin bag? I'm like, no, I would not buy a new one. But if someone gave me their grandmothers and it was 90 years old and it was all broken in and screwed up, I'm like, give me that. That's what I would want.

36:02Matthew Grenby:And then, so I answered that question and then I was driving home and I'm like, well, if I wanted something that beaten up, that means I should do a bag with leather that feels like that. And that's where the idea came from. And then we're like, let's do this bag. And it's a great tote bag light, but broken in.

36:19Irene Chen:And not having to be so precious with something feels like a real gift. Yes. And give you the permission to just use it and it's okay.

36:26Matthew Grenby:And so that's where the idea came from. And I think it resonated with people. And then now there's a whole trend of everything being soft and broken. And when you see all the handbags now, you know, Chanel has collapsed all their bags, you know, everyone's collapsing their bags. And I feel like it was really just one of those things where I'm like, I just want things all screwed up. Like give me a bag that's already kind of all scratched up and give you permission to just use it.

36:50Irene Chen:So we talked about trusting your gut instincts earlier. When you have moments like that of like trusting your gut, despite the fact that you don't necessarily have any market data to suggest that this is the right direction or anything other than like a personal vibe. Do you feel like you are quicker to trust that at this point in your career?

37:06Matthew Grenby:Yes and no, because I think there's still part of you when, you know, you're like, this is so insane. But yes, a little bit more because now we're very clear on what type of product we want to put out there. So you kind of go through the, does this check this? Does this check that?

37:21Irene Chen:And if it does, then let's try it.

37:23Matthew Grenby:So more so than, you know, when we first started for sure.

37:25Irene Chen:I love that. Yeah. So I also want to talk about some extremely exciting news, which is coming up on June 8th. Parker Thatch is launching an exclusive new capsule collection created in partnership with Big Night, which is a beloved New York City based hosting destination. For our listeners who don't know, can you talk a little bit about what Big Night is and why you wanted to collab with them and how this all came to fruition?

37:51Matthew Grenby:Big Night, I think they have three locations in New York, and it is a destination for if you want to give a party, you should go there. The colors are insane. The products are amazing. Just if you want to give a party, here's everything you need. And so I met Catherine through Joyce, who works with us and they had worked together when she was at made well she was at j crew and when i met her i just loved her energy i was like wow she's so cool she's kind of a legend in

38:18Irene Chen:the industry she's a legend right and she's just so much energy and she's got charisma so joyce is

38:24Matthew Grenby:like we need to go to her store you got to go check it out and i'm a huge modernist like primary color person so i walked into her store i was like oh my god and so that's when we were like okay Catherine, what can we do together? And she wanted to do a bag and bring that into her world. So that's where we came up with this idea of like a great bag that you can use to buy your things, take everywhere. It's called the Everywhere Tote.

38:47Irene Chen:Oh my God, that's so cool. Can you tell me more about it?

38:50Matthew Grenby:It's a beautiful tote bag, but made of this great kind of netting fabric. And we did it in beautiful big night colors. So I'm really excited about it.

38:58Irene Chen:So cool. So as you look ahead, Parker Thatch has obviously evolved a couple of times and continues to have growth and transformation. If you could imagine anything for the brand in the next 5, 10, 15, 20 years, where do you want it to go? What would be most exciting for you?

39:18Matthew Grenby:I think it would be most exciting, honestly, because we have this tiny space here in our little tiny mall next to a dry cleaner, a vintage shop, and a hair salon. And when people do come in here, it always becomes like a party in here. Like you'll get three women. Everyone's always so interesting. And then it's such a tight space. Everyone starts to talk to each other. And then like a half an hour shopping excursion turns into two hours or three hours.

39:42Irene Chen:And I feel like we don't have enough of these spaces where people can see each other and talk to each other.

39:49Matthew Grenby:And I think when you come into a store and you already like this brand, you kind of have the same ethos and, you know, kind of mindset. So I love small stores. I don't want a huge store. And I think it'd be so cool to have little gathering places. So that would be my dream.

40:03Irene Chen:So like a salon and the old fashioned sense of it. Yeah.

40:06Matthew Grenby:Like come in and hang out, you know, it's kind of fun, but like in this little tiny space and it's sort of unexpected, you know, when you go to Europe and there's this weird door and then you walk into this magical store, but it's only 300 square feet. I think that would be an amazing thing.

40:22Irene Chen:I love it. Well, it's all about community these days anyway, and that's not going to change anytime soon.

40:27Matthew Grenby:No. And I feel like we need more of that. You know, we need more of people coming together and just chatting and talking and it's incredible what can happen. That's so cool.

40:36Irene Chen:Okay. So on this podcast, we like to close out with the same three questions for every single guest. The first one is about mistakes because we all make them throughout the course of our career, but we don't always talk about it. We tend to give the Instagram highlight reel. And while the highlight reel is great, we don't really learn from it as much. I think it's really important to hear stories of other women making mistakes and coming back from it because I think we all need to hear about that resiliency. So I'm hoping that you can tell me about a mistake that you've made at any point in your career and what you've learned from it.

41:11Matthew Grenby:I think I shared my biggest error, right? So my biggest mistake was not go with my gut feeling and go work in the right place, even though it was just very questionable what I was supposed to do. And so that was a great mistake that I had the fortune to come back and experience. And without coming back to experience that, I don't think I would be doing what I'm doing today.

41:32Irene Chen:You know, sometimes you have to make the mistake to make the right choice. Yes.

41:38Matthew Grenby:And you have to own the mistake. Like I could have just left and be so embarrassed and just come home and be like, I give up. But I was like, okay, well, maybe I could go back and just really be vulnerable and be like, I made it an error. And I really want to try.

41:50Irene Chen:I do think that honesty and vulnerability is another secret weapon that if you can tap into it and just really be straightforward, it's not like a get out of jail free card. But certainly like, people can't meet you if they don't know what you really want. And if you can say it, you at least have a better shot than if you don't. So why not? Yes.

42:11Matthew Grenby:And like, that is so big, you know, and if someone did that with me who was younger, I'd be like, okay, let me give you another chance and show me what you got for sure. But just, you have to be very honest.

42:23Irene Chen:Okay. So a lot of the folks who listen to this podcast are in their first lives and some of them are in an industry that they love, but they want to do a different aspect of it. Some of them are not in an industry that they love and they want to change industries altogether. What advice do you have for someone who is thinking about making a leap, but just hasn't done it quite yet? Okay.

42:47Matthew Grenby:I was thinking about this. I was in LA and I was talking to this woman who she is a remarkable human and would not need to do something else, but she had this other idea. And she basically was like, I just started doing it at night. And so I do feel like You should try it in a smaller way before you do the big leap. I really do believe that. I think it's too stressful and too anxiety-ridden to just go for it. And also, anyone could have a store these days. You could sell anything, and you could hop on social and try to sell it. So why not try it if that's something that you're interested in? And you might decide, like, I don't love it.

43:25Matthew Grenby:But I think you could try it, and you could carve out time, and you don't have to do it in such a big way. I do believe in starting small and starting with one thing versus a huge idea and then you get nothing done.

43:36Irene Chen:So it's like the bag, like we stuck with that one bag.

43:39Matthew Grenby:And I think people should try if they're interested.

43:42Irene Chen:Great. Okay. Last question, favorite question, which is if you could get into a time machine and go back in time and give your younger self some advice, what would you say?

43:53Matthew Grenby:I would say be kind to yourself because I think you're very hard on yourself when you're younger. And when you don't achieve something that you set out to do, you're really like just not kind to yourself. And I feel like I'm much kinder to myself and also have learned the power of doing small, consistent things each day versus having these giant ideas that you want to do. And then you're not kind to yourself when you don't meet that expectation. I've really learned that in what we're doing. It's all about very small things consistently can add up to something very big in the end. Irene I love that but you have to keep doing it every day and you have to have that idea of just moving forward and moving onward and it's funny because I have this thing on my desk where it says when things get hard who are you and so when things do get hard I look at that and I'm like okay I'm a person who can solve this and maybe might not be perfect but let's keep moving you know and I think if you just step back and just ask yourself that question when you're in this really hard place I think it allows for you to move forward I love that and it's true there's

44:57Irene Chen:nothing that is as revealing as like tough pressure cooker situations that really lets you know who you are. And it also, I think you can surprise yourself with like your ability to problem solve and be resourceful and keep it moving.

45:12Matthew Grenby:A hundred percent. And it won't be perfect, whatever you're trying to set out to do, you know, like start small. It's going to be totally imperfect. I mean, we made a bag and a dry cleaner for Pride Out Loud. That's how it goes.

45:23Irene Chen:Well, Irene, thank you so much. This was such a pleasure on so many levels. I have really enjoyed watching your company grow and thrive and surprise and delight over the years. I can't wait to see where things continue to go. And I appreciate your time today. This was such a pleasure.

45:41Matthew Grenby:Thank you so much. It was a real honor to be here.

45:50Irene Chen:That was the co-founder of Parker Thatch, Irene Chen. For more inspiring interviews with women like Irene, head on over to secondlifepod.com where we have so many more for you to peruse. If you like today's show, please subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. And don't forget to rate and review us. we love seeing you spread the word on social and now you can tag us in your posts we are at second life pod on instagram twitter and facebook we always want to know who you're interested in hearing from on the show so send in your requests to hello at second life pod.com or you can dm us on instagram i'm at hillary kerr the show is at second life pod our dms are always open.

46:35Irene Chen:I'm Hilary Kerr, and you've been listening to Second Life. This episode was produced by Hilary Kerr, Summer Hammeris, and Natalie Thurman. Our production assistant is Grace Ingram. Our audio engineers are at Treehouse Recording in Los Angeles, California, and our music is by Jonathan Leahy.