Jenn Lueke: Culinary Creator and Cookbook Author

23:26Jenn Lueke:So I was the only one working. So it definitely was a big change for us. But part of that lifestyle change kind of inspired me starting to make content about budget friendly meal planning. But to the other part of your question, I was doing all different types of things. Like I really was the right hand man for Liz. I helped her with all different things with the podcast, like getting their recordings set up, emailing guests, helping with the podcast descriptions and all of that, which was really cool. But then also a little bit helping out with the content, which was really fun for me because it was an interest of mine.

24:00Jenn Lueke:And we would have calls where we would come up with content ideas. So the things that came easily, I would say, is like strategic conversations and meeting. Like, I loved thinking about the big picture of what she was working on and being a part of that. And I think that's what the role really shaped into, even though there were those things that I was working on, like the logistics of the podcast and things like that. But just being able to see that greater vision and come up with creative ideas was so fun and really loved just working with Liz. And then the things that were a little bit harder was all the administrative stuff, which I did like to a degree.

24:36Jenn Lueke:But as I got more and more interested in content and this creative world, it just made me want to dive even more into that. And that's even something I struggle with in my job now where there is a lot of, you know, tasks that need to be done, administrative stuff, emails, calendar. And I'm like, I just want to create. Yep. I get it. It's just so interesting because I feel like this has got to be possibly like some of the best training one could hope for if they're interested in starting their own business of any sort, just because, you know, I remember when we first started Who What Where, I was our in-house tech person.

25:15Like I took out the trash, like you do all of the things. And yes, it's the creative strategy and all of that. But like when you're starting a business, there's no one else to do all of the little things. And there are lots and lots and lots and lots of little things. And it's one thing I think when it's yours, it can be soul deadening, but at least it's your thing that you're doing. I can't imagine doing that with someone else long-term without starting to get the itch of like, well, if I can do all of this for someone else, then I could maybe do all of this for myself. So I'm wondering if you ever had a moment of thinking like, I'm already making my own content.

25:54I now understand sort of this like larger, more strategic point of view as well. And like how it all works. Maybe I should start thinking about doing this for myself.

26:03Jenn Lueke:Yeah. It's funny because like, obviously the reason that I applied to work for Liz in the first place was because I did have interest in these kinds of things, but I never thought that I would have the opportunity to do it on my own because I didn't have a following. And I had been at it for a long time at this point, like almost five years of creating content and nothing was really sticking. So it was kind of the next step for me where I was like, okay, well, I'm not really finding success in growing a community on my own. So maybe I should just like go into a role where I get to do this kind of work.

26:35Jenn Lueke:So that's why it was a job that made so much sense for me. But then, you know, during that time, while I was working for Liz, I worked for her for like a bit over a year is when I started my budget grocery series, which is what ultimately helped me grow my following. And I never knew that that would be the thing that worked. I had done so many different series and things to try to grow my following over those five years and nothing had worked, but that had worked. And it happened to be at the time where I did go into this role. So it wasn't intentional, I guess. Like I always was trying to kind of like grow a following, but I didn't really know how to do it.

27:08Jenn Lueke:And I was just seeing what stuck. And then that ultimately did. But once that did happen and I did grow a following, it was kind of earlier than I expected. So it was an interesting situation because I was only maybe six months into the job and I felt like I had a lot more to do and learn than, you know, having that moment of, oh, this could be something that I did on my own. But it was a hard decision. And I ended up waiting quite a bit to go off on my own because of that. One, because of the security of it and not having a salary and not knowing how it would go if I went off on my own. But also being like, even though it took me five years to grow to this point, I almost still didn't feel ready to do it on my own.

27:44Jenn Lueke:And when I did leave, I realized quickly I was ready. And I had all this training and I learned all of these skills. But it's scary to go off on your own, even when you know this stuff. Yeah. For our audience, if they haven't seen it, talk a little bit about the concept because it's simple, but beautifully executed and such a great blend of finance and food skills. So can you just walk our listeners through the concept and what the response was? Was it just immediate from the very first one? Talk me through it. Yeah. Well, first, thank you so much. I really appreciate that. Like I had mentioned, the series was kind of a result of just like my lifestyle at the time.

28:22Jenn Lueke:And it was very timely. I know it still is, but especially in January, 2023, which is when I did the series for the first time, every single news story was about inflation, grocery prices, all of that. There was things I was thinking about too, because I needed to be mindful of it. And I had always been very financially careful with spending, but especially on groceries, partially because I was trying to make content and not spend extra money that I didn't have and like find a way to make it all work. So I had continued doing this thing kind of like I had started when I was in college where, you know, I'd sit down, make my grocery list for the week, figure out the meals we were going to have.

28:57Jenn Lueke:I'd usually do it from a lens of like five dinners for the week for me and my husband. And then I would go to the store with my list and I would try to make recipes that used overlapping ingredients so that there was minimal things being bought and money being spent. That was something that I had been doing since I had moved and lived on my own and even a little bit before. But I just decided to turn that into a video one week. And me and my husband kind of were like, I remember us being in the parking lot of Trader Joe's. And I was like, I think I'm going to maybe like film a little bit in the grocery store today, which was not really a thing at the time.

29:29Jenn Lueke:Like I know you see it all the time now, like meal planning, grocery trips, but it really wasn't a big thing. It was a little weird, especially like giving people a grocery list with their meals. I hadn't seen anybody else do that. So I was a little hesitant to do it because I just didn't know if people would be interested. But we were kind of discussing it and I was like, oh, maybe like I should give them the full grocery list and actually shop for everything. And we had this back and forth. So then I did and I filmed it and I posted it and I was like, I'm going to do a meal plan for this week to my, you know, 5 ,000 followers or whatever it was.

29:57Jenn Lueke:And that was the first edition. I give a grocery list. I give five dinners to make for the week that each make four servings. So you get 20 meals. The list is usually$60. So it's like two and a half to$3 per serving. So just a really budget friendly way to eat healthy meals. So everything was gluten and dairy free, which doesn't necessarily mean healthy, but packed with protein and plants and all these things that I was trying to do. So the first time that I posted that was January. It was like a week long series, 2023. And the first video got a million views, which was insane because I struggled to even get like a thousand views on my videos.

30:33Jenn Lueke:So I just couldn't believe it. And it immediately took off after all of these different series that I had tried. So once that happened, I was like, okay, when's the next one? But I immediately did another one. And all of those videos got hundreds of thousands of views. When I did it the next time, it got even more views. I did the next time, it got even more views. So I knew that I had found something that really worked and I was so excited. How do you think your finance background helped in covering some of this too? Because I understand the food piece of it, but like how long did it take you in your personal life to like hone the process so that you could even turn it into a series since it's obviously taken from real life?

31:13Jenn Lueke:Yeah. I think the main thing is at the beginning, I didn't even know I was, you know, coming up with the ideas for this series. You're like, it's just how we ate. Literally. Like I would sometimes share, I had a little notebook where I would write in the five dinners that we were going to have for that week and paying attention to the overlapping ingredients. And then I would make my grocery list. And I would sometimes even share that on like an Instagram story. This was back in 2020, 2021. And it didn't really seem to interest me that much. So I didn't really think of it at the time. It took me all of that time to actually get there.

31:43Jenn Lueke:But I think the finance background played into it, one, as like a credibility piece once I actually did share it. But two, also, I think I thought about food and money so closely always. So the kind of necessary piece of it being part of my lifestyle and needing to shop on a budget. Something else that was interesting was before I had started that, I did a few videos of what I would buy at Costco so that I could save money. I would buy my meat in bulk, for example, or oats and chia seeds. And those couple of videos, they didn't go completely viral like the grocery series, but those were the ones that always performed a little bit better.

32:21Jenn Lueke:So I had this inkling that people were interested in money. But I think what really did it when I had the series go live is I specifically called out like, this is the amount of money that you're going to spend. This is what the cost per serving is going to be. This is how many meals you're going to get. And I think it was very digestible for people. So in my opinion, the thing that really made it resonate was that people could envision themselves following it because it was like, here's exactly what you need to get and exactly what you need to do and exactly what you're going to spend. And it just gave you the tools.

32:52It's like outsourcing your brain.

32:53Jenn Lueke:Yeah, which like we all love that. We all love like being told here's exactly what you're going to do and you don't even have to think about it for the week. So immediately I was able to identify that. I think the other thing is once I saw that people really loved that connection between budgeting and food, I just completely was like, this is what I do now. in everything I thought about from a budgeting standpoint. And now that my content has evolved, it's not like I need to talk about money in every single thing that I do, but there's this underlying theme of approachability, affordability that just stays.

33:26I love it. So as a result of this series, you gained over a million followers in a single year. Yeah. Aside from watching the numbers explode, like what kind of feedback were you getting? And is it a little bit like what I would imagine it's like to be a working actor who then becomes like mega famous in their 30s like you've been doing this for a minute you've been doing it for other people you'd had a whole career so then for it to take off like how did that feel yeah it's such a good question no one's like

33:58Jenn Lueke:really asked me that before it felt very surreal especially like when I did that first week week the series got featured in good morning america abc yahoo like all the different outlets and that was the first time that i had done it so i think i had a hard time believing that this is it and like i still didn't think it would become my career really i had been at it for so long and to answer question about like was i happy that it happened that time definitely because i did spend a long time trying different things so i at least knew at that point that i was interested in this industry in the space.

34:35Jenn Lueke:So I really made sure to take advantage of it. But I think it took me a long time to realize that it was sticking, that people were going to hang around, that the followers that I got were going to stay and be here today. And that it would turn into something greater. Like at the time, it was just this concept, you know, all the information was there for you in the caption. And I wasn't monetizing it in any way. It was just engagement and followers, which of course ended up being very valuable, but it still took me a while to figure out like, how do I take this and then turn it into something?

35:07Jenn Lueke:Obviously I started working on my book. I created my newsletter, which had kind of like that same template. And I grew my website and built it out. But at the time it was just like, oh, this is just this little idea and it's fun to go viral, but it wasn't a business yet. Got it. So talk to me about turning it into a business. As you said, you knew that you had hit upon something, you still stayed in your job. What did you set up as next steps to turning it into an actual business? Because again, I'm sure your background and lived experience and work experience came in handy here. There's a part of me that also loves that you're forthcoming about it took you longer to make the move than you probably should have or could have.

35:51because I also think that's something with a lot of the women I speak to. It's like we wait until we're really, really certain. And I think that's why we build strong, long-lasting businesses. But also it's an interesting psychology of like, at what point do you go?

36:05Jenn Lueke:Yeah. It's like having that confidence to know if it was going to stick. Turning it into a real business, I think it took me a bit. I did kind of ride that wave of the videos going viral, which I do think at the time was the right move. I just kept all the information in the caption. I made it so that I just wanted people to have eyes on it. And that was my main goal. And because I did have a career separately, I was able to do that because it wasn't like, okay, I finally have eyes on this business. I need to monetize it right away. So I think that helped me with just kind of building this base of people.

36:39Jenn Lueke:When I was ready to turn it into a business, I finally left my job in August of that year. So from January until August, I had done the series many times and similar things like about budgeting and food and meal prep and all of that. So I was just kind of experimenting and seeing what else I could throw in there on top of the series that I knew people really liked. And that was a super helpful time. Once I went off on my own, it was now, okay, what is this going to become? So I had a following at that point, but I hadn't thought about these other things. But that's when I started thinking about an idea of doing a cookbook based on this prescriptive way of cooking where you get your grocery list and your meals for the week.

37:20Jenn Lueke:So this was still back in 2023 when I started just kind of exploring those ideas. A couple months later is when I launched my newsletter on Substack. And that was really because people were like, we want you to do your grocery series every single week. And I was like, I can't create all these videos and plan it all out every single week. So that was the way that I transitioned it. and I still do the videos, but the newsletter is the basis of it all. So it was kind of thinking about what those next steps are and turning community into a business, which I do think is key in this job because algorithms can change, luck can change.

37:56Jenn Lueke:I'm not afraid to say that I did get lucky in that series picking up, but it's like Ina Garten's book. It's like, be ready when the luck happens and figure out how to change it into more of a business. So I just spent that like year figuring out what the business actually was and how I could transform it. And that's when I started to work on things like the book and the newsletter. So talk to me about the book, because over the past three years, I love that you've really found yourself at this intersection of nutrition and budget friendly and accessible recipes, which you wrapped up into your first ever cookbook, Don't Think About Dinner, which came out in January and quickly made the New York Times bestseller list.

38:37I have interviewed a number of cookbook writers over the years. It feels like the process is different for everyone. Talk to me about what it was like for you.

38:45Jenn Lueke:Yeah, it's a long process. I'm sure everybody agrees on that. I really enjoyed it. I feel very lucky that I got to turn this concept into a book. The process for me was layered and complicated because I did want to pull in these things like you're talking about, considering budget, considering nutrition, considering time and energy and all of these things that I had talked about and like themes, I guess, which I had created my content around, turning that into one concise concept and delivering it to people in this book. I mean, part of it is why the book is 350 pages because it was very hard to do that.

39:23Jenn Lueke:But I had a lot of fun coming up with that. And I really wanted to make a book that was different. I knew there was no lack of cookbooks out there. And I knew the things that people liked about my recipes. Yes, they like them because they're delicious, but there's so much more to that. Like it makes their life easy. It makes them spend less money. It builds their kitchen confidence. It allows them to use their pantry staples and it shows them how to shop and what they should keep on hand. So I spent a lot of time figuring out what the first portion of my book would be, which is like the first 60 pages of Don't Think about dinner.

39:54Jenn Lueke:And it's a lengthy front matter because I wanted it to have this part one that got people set up for the week, stock their pantry, fridge, freezer, learn how to make a grocery list, figure out what to go on their meal plan, how to meal prep, even how to store your food and how to reheat your food. Just like all of those basics that I learned over the last eight, nine years as I was going on this journey and then all the recipes. But it was very complicated because I included 12 weeks of these meal plans in the book that correlated with these 60 dinner recipes. in addition to meal prep and stuff like that.

40:25Jenn Lueke:So when I was creating them, not only did a recipe have to fit into one of my chapters, like 30 minute meals, one pan meals, high protein meals, plant-based meals, but it also had to fit into a grocery list. Like I would need a one pan meal that used fall ingredients because it was on my fall vibes grocery list that used half a can of coconut milk and half a jar of sun-dried tomatoes. So it was figuring it out. That was the most fun. And like, I truly believe that is what I was born to do. I love creating these really efficient meal plans. It couldn't just be, this is a recipe that I love and I want to include it in my cookbook.

41:03Jenn Lueke:It was like, this has to fit into this. So it ended up with many recipes being not thrown in the trash, but used for something else because it just couldn't fit when I needed it. And I was so set on there being like no waste at the end of the week. And I do think that's why people have loved the book so much. they recognize that it is not just something where you can be like, oh, we're having a dinner party. Let's make a fun recipe. But it really is something you can cook from. Don't think about dinner every night of the week. And I really wanted people to understand that and then use it. Yep.

41:31That makes sense. So I have also loved seeing all of the behind the scenes process of making the book. I'm specifically thinking about the incredible sticky note wall situation that you use to organize all of your recipes. What was the biggest takeaway that you learned from creating this book? And again, I mean, I go back to what came together really easily and what was challenging.

41:56Jenn Lueke:Yeah. There was a lot in general that I wasn't expecting because I had never done something like this. Like I felt like, okay, I kind of figured it out with content creation, making videos and all of that. And this just was the complete opposite in so many ways. Like there's no instant gratification. You have to work on it for very long. You don't really know what people are going to think about it until it's out in the world. Not to mention the way that you have to market it without people ever really seeing it and just being like, trust me, you're going to like it. So all of that was really challenging.

42:26Jenn Lueke:I think the number one challenge was like patience and not really being able to ask or see what people like. It was a lot easier for me to like, oh, I tried a new grocery series that was fall themed and people loved it. So now I know, okay, they're into these kinds of recipes, or I tried out doing some plant-based weeks and people either liked that or didn't like that. So not having that feedback was really difficult. Let alone immediate feedback. Yeah, truly immediate. And it's so in your face, you know, there's stats to it. Yeah. You get all of that data. But I did try to use the data that I did have from sharing my content to inform the book.

43:05Jenn Lueke:And that is really what shaped it. But having to wait truly until like a couple months ago to see, you know, oh, okay, people do like this. And this does resonate. that long journey and patience was probably the biggest challenge beyond just like not knowing what to expect like I thought when I turned in my manuscript that I was going to be done and that really felt like the start yeah so that was a struggle but I did really love every part of it like one of my favorite parts was like creating that wall doing the photo shoot seeing it come together having other people other than my recipe tester try the recipes for the first time and like love it.

43:39Jenn Lueke:That was amazing. And just hearing like, oh, these recipes work and they're really easy. And I made this for my family, like from the photography team, those are really like the first people. So that was an amazing part of it. And another big challenge, I would say it was just, yeah, finally being able to announce it, which was amazing, but then really trying to describe to people the value of the book and the time that I had put into it. I wanted people to understand those things that I just talked about where like, it was really intentional. It was meant to be cooked from every night. It's so much more than your typical cookbook.

44:10Jenn Lueke:And explaining that without having the book, showing them it, letting them look through the pages was a real challenge. That makes sense. Yeah. I also think to your point of marketing something as this is a daily driver. This is not an occasion-based cookbook, which so many of them are. Yeah. And I love cookbooks like that. I have hundreds of cookbooks. Those are the things that taught me how to cook. But I knew that my community needed fast. They needed affordable. They needed these kind of base recipes that you could adjust based on what you have on hand or what you can find on sale that week.

44:42Jenn Lueke:So that's really what drove this kind of like everyday use cookbook. How long did it take to put together the first draft? It took for the first draft about a year total. And I wanted the book to come out in January. so when I pitched the book I kind of had to do it on a quick timeline for it to come out in January I would have had to wait until 2027 so because of that I pretty much developed tested finalized all of the recipes in a six-month period a lot of that time was me you know writing figuring out the front matter and all of that so there was a time from like June to November 2024 where every Monday, I tested like seven recipes.

45:24Jenn Lueke:And then the rest of the week would be for making content for social media and then retesting recipes for the book. And it was an insane time. God, that is a lot. That is so much. Okay. So what are you thinking about next? I know this is so early to say, I feel like it's ridiculous, like asking someone with a newborn if they want a second, but are you thinking about a second cookbook? Are you thinking about new types of content, like a TV show? Like how are you thinking about the next phase of your career to come? Yeah. I'm very much keeping it open. Like I'm 28 and I know I have hopefully a long career ahead of myself, hopefully continuing in this space.

46:06Jenn Lueke:I would love to do another book. And that is definitely something that I'm already thinking up now because there's just so much more that I want to say and so many more recipes that I want to share. So that's definitely something that I hope was on the horizon, being able to share the book on TV and all these media things was so much fun. I loved all of that. But also at the same time, just fostering this community that I have, continuing to talk about and cook from Don't Think About Dinner, because I think there's still so much for people to explore from the book as they've just gotten it for a couple of months.

46:37Jenn Lueke:And then, you know, seeing what else is out there, but keeping up with my newsletter that we do three times a week, keeping up with my videos on social media, staying engaged with my community. That's a lot. Yeah. And really, like, it's been a great experience now that I'm kind of back settled in to just hear people's thoughts and just continuing to take in and know what is of value to people. And, you know, the things that they say are most helpful from the book, like they're saying that they're actually following the meal plans. And I didn't know if, you know, people were going to be more interested because it is a physical cookbook.

47:10Jenn Lueke:They really are following their shopping. And all of that has been really interesting just to inform my content going forward. And then if I do another book, what that will consist of. That's so cool. So we asked the same three questions of everyone who comes on the podcast at the very end. And the first one is about mistakes because everyone makes them throughout the course of their career, but people don't always talk about it. So I'm wondering if you can tell me about a mistake that you've made at any point in your career thus far and what you've learned from it. I think the biggest thing was, you know, it wasn't necessarily a failure because I did continue going.

47:46Jenn Lueke:But in those times where it did feel like I was continuing to share and show up and be really consistent on social media and nothing was working, I wish that I had a little more patience then and just trusted the journey a little bit more because it was disappointing along the way. So I'm so glad I'm not sitting here or probably wouldn't be sitting here, but saying that like I gave up and that was kind of a failure. But along the way too, like there have been things that haven't worked as well for me. And I think, you know, people look at, you know, having a following or a bestseller or whatever it is.

48:20Jenn Lueke:And it's just like an overnight success, but it really did take a lot of like small failures along the way, trying to figure out what did work. So those days where I was like, I've posted for two, three, four years straight, and no one seems to care. Like, why am I here? I felt like it was a failure at the time. And looking back, I don't even know why I kept posting and I'm so glad that I did, but they weren't failures. It was all just part of me learning what worked, what resonated, and also just becoming more resilient to things not always working out. I mean, it's like cooking in high school for your family.

48:56It's like you're putting in your 10 ,000 hours. You're just getting that muscle built so that then when something amazing happens, you can actually handle it. Totally. But it doesn't always feel like that at the time. It's like, what is going on here? It did not feel like it at the time.

49:12Jenn Lueke:I always say like I was delusional enough for long enough for it to finally work. And, you know, sometimes just like having that fortitude and resiliency is like what you actually need to make something work. So 100%. There you go. So a lot of the folks who listen to this podcast are in their first lives and they know that they want to do something different, whether that's in the same industry that they work in, or they want to pivot industries. As someone who has done both, having pivoted and then also stayed within the industry, but done something that's your own, what advice would you give someone who's sort of standing there thinking about next steps, but just hasn't made that leap quite yet?

49:55Jenn Lueke:I would say have patience, which I know has been a big theme of what I've been saying. And what you think you didn't have. Yeah. Have that patience. And then also don't be afraid to try. Like one of my favorite mottos for myself is just don't be afraid to be seen trying. And I really try to live that in what I do now, but especially at the beginning, I think I really needed to hear that because it's vulnerable, like trying something new, putting yourself out there, especially if it is something like you're trying to start your own business or you're trying to kind of like go into something more creative or put yourself out there, worrying about what other people around you think can really hold you back.

50:38Jenn Lueke:And I think did hold me back at certain points, even though I did, you know, keep going. It was something always kind of in the back of my mind, like what are other people going to think about this or how is this going to be perceived? I think my biggest thing would just be have the patience, but be willing to try things, be willing to maybe look stupid, which I don't think is how anyone's going to look. But if you feel that way, that's okay. There's definitely been times when I felt like that and it's worth it to do something that feels very true to yourself and that you feel passionate about sharing or whatever that thing is.

51:09Passion outweighs cringe.

51:11Jenn Lueke:A hundred percent. And especially if you're in the creative field, social media, creating content, like the truest thing ever, because you have to be a little bit cringe. Yes, a hundred percent. So my last question is my favorite, which is if you could get into a time machine and go back in time and give your younger self some advice, what would you say? I think I would just say, trust the process and know that everything is going to work out. Like when I was younger, especially, or even like early days in college, like I was very, you know, wanting to try all of these different things, but I definitely wasn't confident.

51:49Jenn Lueke:And I didn't really know what the future would look like. I think I was just coming from a place of fear and, you know, not having confidence for a lot of time. So I wish I could just go back and say like, you know what you're doing and you're a hard worker and you're going to figure out what your path is, no matter what it is. And also just don't let other people tell you what's right or wrong. Like even like how we started the interview and I told you people told me to change my major. maybe they were right, but I'm writing a newsletter now. There you go. I think just kind of like leaving that noise out, trusting the process and being confident.

52:21I love that. Well, thank you so much for your time. This was such a pleasure. Congratulations on everything. And I'm just going to be watching and waiting and supporting and excited to see what comes next. Thank you so much. This was so fun.

52:43That was culinary creator and cookbook author, Jen Lukey. For more inspiring interviews with women like Jen, head on over to secondlifepod.com, where we have so many more for you to peruse. If you like today's show, please subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And don't forget to rate and review us. We love seeing you spread the word on social. And now you can tag us in your posts. We are at second life pod on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook. We always want to know who you're interested in hearing from on the show. So send in your requests to hello at second life pod.com, or you can DM us on Instagram.

53:23I'm at Hillary Kerr. The show is at second life pod. Our DMs are always open. I'm Hillary Kerr, and you've been listening to second life. This episode was produced by Hilary Kerr, Summer Hammeris, and Natalie Thurman. Our production assistant is Raven Yamamoto. Our audio engineers are at Treehouse Recording in Los Angeles, California, and our music is by Jonathan Leahy.