Priyanka Ganjoo: Founder of Kulfi Beauty

14:00Second Life Host:Yep. Sometimes, some places, yes. Okay. So talk to me about the pivot that you made after finishing your MBA. You moved to the beauty industry, but I read that you didn't start wearing makeup at all until your late 20s after you had started working in beauty. So I'm curious about what drew you to that space if that was not like a deep seated personal longtime interest of yours necessarily.

14:28Priyanka Ganjoo:Absolutely. I think it's perfect that this is called Second Life because it almost feels like I'm sort of evolving. And I love that. I feel like when I'm in my 50s, I'm going to be doing something completely different. I can sense it. But yeah, I didn't wear makeup growing up. I actually never felt beautiful or felt like I was one of the pretty girls who could wear makeup. It always felt intimidating to me. And especially in the culture that I grew up in, you know, my family was pretty conservative. Wearing makeup was seen as, oh, you're trying to attract men or trying to attract attention. And so that wasn't something that I was ready to own or felt like I could participate in and came with a lot of baggage.

15:07Priyanka Ganjoo:And so it was something I ever thought I would do. But then I found myself working at Estee Lauder through the business side of it for Mac and Bobby Brown and some of those brands, which was, again, like a really great experience because they're beautiful brands. And while I was there, I started being surrounded by people who love beauty. They genuinely love beauty. I remember my boss being like, I'm going to send you to the Bobby Brown girl I know at this place on Fifth Avenue. you go to her, she's going to do your face map, and she's going to give you all the products. It was just amazing because that was my introduction.

15:43Priyanka Ganjoo:And I started realizing how fun and expressive makeup and beauty can be. And it was an aha moment for me to be like, why did I always associate it with baggage? I could have just always had fun with it because I just never saw that in real life. And that's sort of the seed in my mind that eventually has grown to be healthy.

16:03Second Life Host:I love that. Okay, so walk me through some of that time at Estee Lauder. Culturally, going to such a massive corporation, was that a good fit? Was there a steep learning curve in terms of the company culture? And what exactly is global retail strategy? What did that job entail?

16:23Priyanka Ganjoo:So Estee Lauder, obviously big company, they have geographies, they have brands, They have channels. And one of the channels was their retail channel, which only a few of their brands had, which is their own stores and their own distribution. And at that time, online.com was still like a small percentage of their overall makeup sales. Global Retail Strategy was really all of the stores that Estee Lauder themselves runs, which was really for Mac. Bobby had stores in, they had one store here in the US, but they had stores in other different parts of the world. And so it was covering all of these different regions and the stores that we ran ourselves and trying to figure out how do we make those stores more productive, more effective, improve customer experience.

17:10Second Life Host:Got it. Okay. So freestanding stores. Yes. Freestanding stores. Exactly. What was the part that you liked the most about that job and what was the most challenging?

17:19Priyanka Ganjoo:I think what I liked the most was that I got to work with the folks who were on the ground. So we worked a lot with like store teams. I remember we went to Brazil to do like a training for the store team for I think it was for Clinique. Clinique had stores in Brazil. That was really fun. I love being able to see the store team telling you this isn't working. This promotion isn't working. Like this is working. So I love that. I think what was challenging was like me as part of this bigger organization, really not being able to impact change. Because now I felt like I had got all this feedback from the ground and like people are trusting me with that.

17:58Priyanka Ganjoo:And I'm hoping that I can bring about change that will impact the people that I was talking to. And I felt like I couldn't do that as much. So after I left Essie Lauder, I went to Ipsy, which is a beauty subscription service. And I was their first merchandising hire. and I'd never done merchandising. I think they were a startup. They were very early stage at that time. They were like, okay, we just need someone smart who kind of can figure it out. And it was amazing. Like I got to get direct customer feedback. What I did in merchandising was I selected or helped select the products that would go out in the subscription box every month and then match them with our consumers.

18:34Priyanka Ganjoo:And that was such a fun art and science blend because our consumers would give us data. They'd fill out a quiz. I like eyeshadows. I'm a neutral person, blah, blah, blah. Like this is my personality. So we had some data, but then some of it was also just like... Vibes. Yeah, I know. It was really like, we saw this new brand on Instagram that looks kind of cool. I think we should reach out and see if they can give us some samples. And so I thought that was so amazing. And I got immediate customer feedback because, you know, when customers weren't happy with their box, believe me, they wrote long comments on Facebook and I would read them and I'd be like, oh, yeah, I messed up.

19:11Priyanka Ganjoo:But then when they were happy, they were happy, too. So that was amazing.

19:14Second Life Host:It's interesting hearing you talk about this, because I would not have necessarily assumed that there would be such a connection between the consulting work, where you make recommendations, but ultimately are not there to implement them or see them through. And then Estee Lauder, which too, like as part of a large corporation, that seems like it kind of had some similarities in that, like you're getting information and data, but you can't necessarily follow through on it to the degree that you might want to. And that being a sticking point for you with both of those two jobs, it would make sense that for your next move for Ipsy, that you would want to have more agency or be able to actually affect change.

19:55Second Life Host:And where can someone do that the most easily? At a startup or a smaller company, right? Like where there's process, but it isn't so ingrained, like this is the only way of working. Is that a fair assessment? Yeah, I think in retrospect, that makes so much sense.

20:09Priyanka Ganjoo:I didn't think about it.

20:14Second Life Host:So the culture of a startup versus a historic legacy brand like Estee Lauder is quite different. How did you feel about that change? I loved it.

20:26Priyanka Ganjoo:I love the startup world. Actually, at Estee Lauder, I had this running joke with my sister that she'd be like, I don't hear from you all weekend, then Monday morning at 9am, you're texting me how you are. So I was a little bit like not being challenged in my role at Estee Lauder. Whereas like once I got into Ipsy, like I said, we were kind of figuring things out. They were growing really fast at that point.

20:46Second Life Host:It was like the peak of subscription and YouTube, breakup era, we know

20:50Priyanka Ganjoo:that. And so that was just incredible. And I love being able to just create new processes. And you know, some of the things that I worked on, they're still running them. And that's really, really cool. So I just loved it.

21:03Second Life Host:Okay. So talk to me a little bit about your merchandising role. I read that you were evaluating hundreds of new beauty brands and products every week. Again, as someone who did not grow up playing in the wonderful world of makeup, what were you learning? Like what would make a brand stand out or a product stand out to you?

21:22Priyanka Ganjoo:Definitely starting with product quality. You put it on if it's not a beautiful eyeshadow, if it's not an amazing mascara, like you can tell. You don't even need to be a makeup expert, right? I wasn't at that point. I'm hoping I'm kind of intermediate now, but just by comparing it to other makeup that I tried or, you know, worn, I could tell, okay, this isn't wearing right. Like it's smudging through the day. Just things like that, which I started to pick up. So product quality, you can never compromise on it. I think that's really key. But then beyond that, it's like, why should a consumer care about you specifically?

21:54Priyanka Ganjoo:And that's where the brand comes in. That's where the storytelling and the heart comes in. And I think, especially at Ipsy, because we work with a lot of indie brands, I felt like that was such a special place for us because we were working with a lot of brands before they became big brands. I remember we used to do a lot of sampling with IT Cosmetics. We worked with youthful people. You know, we just worked with a lot of these amazing indie brands before they became big. And again, I think being able to be like, we see this on Instagram, let's get this in our bag somehow was just amazing. And it's always a combination of product quality and storytelling and brand because people buy things because they resonate with that brand.

22:33Priyanka Ganjoo:It's part of their identity, especially in beauty and fashion. Like that piece needs to speak to you. And if it doesn't, it becomes like a cleaning product. You know what I mean? Like it gets very depersonalized. Yeah.

22:44Second Life Host:Yeah. I understand. It feels like Ipsy was almost like a secondary MBA in being an entrepreneur. you were building a team at ipsy right what was your experience with hiring and putting process in place because you know no matter how many classes you can take on being an entrepreneur or a leader a lot of that stuff you just have to learn like on the job in real time and in my case make many mistakes before you start getting the hang of it what was it like for you yeah i built

23:15Priyanka Ganjoo:my team being the first merchandising hire to i think by the time i left we were nine or ten people in that game, which was amazing, which was also kind of where I felt like I didn't want to manage a big team anymore. I just want to have like actual ownership, individual ownership of things. But it was definitely a, you know, like you said, a second MBA and a lot of learning in terms of how do you identify what is the superpower in each person? Because we all have that. We have one thing that makes us be in flow state and just do amazing, beautiful things. And what I realized was that if I put a person who was in my team on a project where it allows them to be in that state, you would get amazing results.

23:55Priyanka Ganjoo:And when you put them in something else, like you can see they're not engaged. And so I think the thing that it taught me was to take more ownership of the results that your team produces, because it's not just about who they are, but also you creating conditions for them to succeed. Matchmaking. Yeah, exactly. And I think that has really carried over really well for me, you know, starting Kofi and hiring a lot of people. Many of the team members we have actually have never done the roles we have before, but there was something that I saw in them that, you know, they have a passion for this. And I was like, I think if I put you here, you're going to do really, really well.

24:31Priyanka Ganjoo:And I feel like that's really paid off for me because again, when we were starting out, I didn't necessarily have the budget or the brand name to attract like super experienced hires. And I'm really glad I made that decision.

24:42Second Life Host:Sometimes it feels like the constraints are actually a benefit, right? Especially when you're first building something. So let's go back to that. At what point did you start thinking, you know what, I have been building brands for other people. Maybe now is the time to build something for myself. It was 2017.

25:01Priyanka Ganjoo:I remember because I had been at Ipsy for a few years and I was planning my wedding and I went to India and a lot of my family in India and the makeup artist I was going to hire was like, can you bring XYZ product from the US? Because they didn't have access to those brands in India at that point in time. And I was like, wait, don't you guys have brands here? Now, of course, the situation in the market has changed dramatically in India as well. I felt like there wasn't really a global brand. And I also felt like when I was in the US, I had to really do a lot of research to find like a concealer shade that actually matched me, like a lip shade that was flattering.

25:41Priyanka Ganjoo:It was not obvious to me that, you know, just because Nara's orgasm is trending and the cult favorite or the Chanel bronzer that will actually even work on my skin tone or show up on my skin tone. And so there was this like frustration I was feeling on both sides where I was like, okay, clearly in the US, there is this gap in understanding what products really work for different undertones and skin tones. and that was around the time I think Fenty launched in 2017 and I was like duh like of course this makes so much sense I was seeing that gap in real time and experiencing it but I think there was so much more that could have been done whereas I was seeing in India like there's this access problem where they don't have access to all of the brands and high quality products that people are looking for and I was like wait there's opportunity here but more than that it was like something I personally wanted to create and needed so I was like you know what I I should do this.

26:31Priyanka Ganjoo:Or like, I should try to find a brand that's doing it and support them through my role at Ipsy. And I think a couple of years went by and I just could not find a brand that was doing something like that. And I was like, I'm in New York. I have some savings. How difficult can it be?

26:44Second Life Host:I love the optimism. I love that.

26:48Priyanka Ganjoo:How hard can it be? Why not? How hard can it be? I mean, of course, you have to be naive to start a company.

26:55Second Life Host:But I also honestly, though, agree with that. Like people less qualified with less skin in the game, start things all the time. And I feel like seeing mediocre people do things is a real kick in the butt. You're like, that person's not even that good. And they're doing something. Why not me? How hard could it be?

27:14Priyanka Ganjoo:Sometimes it's a lot about perseverance and passion, because what you started with might not even be what you end with, right? It's like, just get started. And then you'll figure it out. I get people reaching out who are aspiring entrepreneurs and they've thought about the problem. And I'm like, just do something. Just put something out there. Put a website. Post our TikTok. Do something about it because you're going to get feedback and you're going to realize what's resonating and what's not resonating because that's the only way to build things.

27:41Second Life Host:So I love the in-between stage when you have the idea or you're starting to work on it, but you haven't necessarily left the job yet. Talk to me about that time period. How did it all work? Did you immediately quit? Did you wait until you had a certain amount of runway or market research? Walk me through those very early days.

27:59Priyanka Ganjoo:So the idea was in my mind for a couple of years. And then in 2019, I quit my job because I just had the idea at that time. I'm not a good multitasker. I knew that if I kept my job and did it on the side, which is the recommended path, if you can do it, it would not work for me. I would get easily distracted. I was pouring all my energy into my work. And I just felt like I wouldn't give it the attention. And I'd also not be like, I've burned my boats. I have to make this work. And so I just quit my job. I had saved some money. I was like, I'm going to give myself one year. And then if within one year, I don't make progress or this doesn't seem promising, I can always go back and find a job.

28:39Priyanka Ganjoo:It just happened that by the time that one year mark came around, the world was shut down.

28:45Second Life Host:Right, right.

28:46Priyanka Ganjoo:And I had started making progress, but it wasn't as fast as I thought because everything always takes much longer than you think it would. And then I was like, okay, let me give myself one more year because like, I think I can get there. And so it ended up being from 2019 to 2021 when we launched, it was two years, which was, I mean, in the grand scheme of things, it's not that long. At that time, it felt like forever. Yeah. It's taking forever to get the launch. But since then, we've just had growth, which I'm really grateful for. And so yeah, we're always doing something new every year.

29:16Second Life Host:Okay. So talk to me about your initial vision, how you thought about naming the company and what your initial market research told you.

29:26Priyanka Ganjoo:So my initial vision was very personal, which was this idea of like, I didn't use makeup and I felt like there was a way to make makeup more joyful because that's what it is. You know, like wear an eyeshadow or a red lip, like it's just fun and playful. And so I knew that that was going to be the central thesis because that's what I felt most passionate about building. But the market research came in in terms of like, what products should we launch with, right? So I would message people on Facebook groups and be like, can you come meet me in a coffee shop in New York and bring your makeup kit with you?

29:58Priyanka Ganjoo:What do you use? What do you think is missing? And people were actually very willing to come and meet. This is prior to COVID. And it was great. You know, our first product, Kajal, which is traditional Indian eyeliner, was inspired by those conversations because a lot of folks who are South Asian they said like oh I have this kajal that's my mom's that my mom bought from India or Pakistan or whatever but then it smudges on me I don't really like it it makes me look like an auntie I mean it was great it was great like inputs for me because I was like wait at the same time they all had it because it's one of those essential things you don't even consider makeup in our culture like it's one of those essential products and so I feel like if I launch with this there's going to be that immediate cultural connection but then also understanding that I want to create it for my generation who want something easy, convenient.

30:48Priyanka Ganjoo:And then we came up with the traditional black, but then also have these beautiful other colors. And Akajal still remains one of our best-selling products. And it's just something I'm really, really proud of. That is incredible. How did you come up with the name? I had a brand freelancer. Now she has her own agency, which is amazing, worked with me on the branding, the colors, you know, the whole thing. and we did a brand naming exercise and kulfi was my working name like that's what I had put in and we did the whole branding exercise and she came up with other options and I was like you know what I still like kulfi and kulfi is a South Asian dessert it's most similar I would say to ice cream and you always have that at celebrations it comes in different flavors it just like always has these positive associations for me and so I kind of was like you know what this is what I'm feeling most strongly about and we stuck to it.

31:38Second Life Host:I love that. Okay. So the eyeliner ended up being one of like the main hero products from the jump. Did you have an idea of like, I want to launch with X number of products, or I want my product calendar to look like Y? Like, how are you thinking about the product rollout strategy, assortment, all of that?

31:57Priyanka Ganjoo:So I only had money to launch one product. And so that was it. The only other product that I knew in the back of my mind I did want to launch was a concealer because that was like a personal pain point.

32:09Second Life Host:But complexion is so expensive.

32:11Priyanka Ganjoo:I know. I was not putting my engineering degree to use. Don't worry. I was very much like, this is what I want to do. But fair. It's a problem, right? It's a problem that I want to address because it's like, if I'm going to say we're creating products for undertones, I think complexion is such a big piece of that, especially with South Asian undertones. We have a lot of olive and pink neutral tones that don't really in existing complexion lines. There wasn't anything that was considering that. And so I was working on that in the background. So I knew it would come up at some point, but at launch, we were just going to launch with one because that's what we had money for.

32:45Priyanka Ganjoo:And in a way it was good because for me, the launch was really a proof of concept. It was a passion project that came to life and, you know, it was less sort of like, oh, I'm going to strategically have this roadmap. It was very much like, can we get to the finish line? And I want to put this out in the world and see what people think. And I'm so glad that people loved it. Beauty editors loved the product, you know, consumers love the product and also the brand. I think there was a lot of love for the brand. On launch date, we were on Vogue, we were on the front page of Allure.com and people were like, how did you do that?

33:15Priyanka Ganjoo:And I was like, honestly, I think it was just like different things coming together with people just finding our story, our brand, our products so fresh and different that we got all of that amazing coverage. And that was all I had. And then I hired one of the people in my team at Ipsy. She was my number one employee. So I finally convinced her once we launched and I knew this thing had legs. I was like, join me. I only have money to pay you salary for one year max, but I will try my best to make this work. And she's our senior director of product development who made the mascara you love. Oh my gosh, I love that.

33:48Priyanka Ganjoo:Yeah.

33:49Second Life Host:Well, Tala, thank you on my behalf because it's great. Okay, so you launched online only, I'm assuming. Yeah. But like you have this background in stores and you also have like the subscription background. Did you have a plan for, okay, we're going to launch online and do direct to consumer with a single product to start and then we'll do X, Y, and Z? Like how were you thinking about the roadmap? And then also were you thinking about raising money?

34:15Priyanka Ganjoo:Yeah, I think when I first started thinking about the brand, it was still the DTC era, right? It was 2019. DTC was still hot. And so I thought this brand would be D2C only for a very long time. But what happened was that around that time, I applied for Sephora Accelerate. What is that? It's kind of their incubation program for founders who are like early stage. And in 2020, they had, in light of Black Lives Matter and also recognizing that they didn't have founders of color and especially black founders on their shelves, they updated that program to really help work with founders who are early stage and get them to a place where they can be at a Sephora.

34:55Priyanka Ganjoo:And so they get thousands of applications. They chose eight. And I was one of the eight. And I was like, okay, this worked out. We're in this program. So we're going to do this. And then Sephora became my whole world because as I expected, they're the best, but they're also very demanding in terms of resources. But it was great because I was like, not only do I have my DTC proof of concept, I also have a legitimate beauty retailer interested in getting us to a point where we will be on shelf. And so with those proof points, I kind of also had the confidence to then go out and raise money, which I talked to a lot of investors.

35:28Priyanka Ganjoo:I think the challenge was that nobody said yes, till I realized that the efforts were best spent on sort of my more personal network. So the people who invested in us in that early stage was friends and family. It was very much like, let me pull together like these$10 ,000,$25 ,000 checks just so I can have some money to continue building because with Sephora, they were like, we don't want to launch you with just one product. And I was like, okay, I need a little bit of help to even kind of sustain that.

35:58Second Life Host:So talk to me about the Sephora program. How much time does it take? Like, what were you doing? How were they useful? I'm so interested in hearing about it.

36:05Priyanka Ganjoo:I applied sometime in October, 2020. We had not launched and I had to submit my lab samples and I had like my deck and I've got an interview, video, et cetera. I got to find out that I was part of the program in December. And then the program ran from Jan 2021 to July. So about six months. And it was really great because you got like a merchant partner who was sort of your mentor. And that was amazing because the merchants are the people who decide what goes on shelf at Sephora. So they were really invested in you being successful. The program had a lot of visibility. So even now, every year, they do this impact summit every February as part of their brand summit.

36:44Priyanka Ganjoo:And the founders who are in the Accelerate program get to participate in that. And there's a lot of senior level visibility, which I think, again, for a small brand to be able to get that level of attention was absolutely incredible. So I do think that that was my biggest takeaway. Of course, there's like the actual mechanics of what they teach in the course. And, you know, we had like Vicky Sai do a panel, Nancy Twine from Briogeo. But I think what was the most valuable was having that merchant. Like personally, it felt like they were invested in making us successful.

37:14Second Life Host:Got it. Okay. So what was the reception? And also, did you have any markers in your head or in place there through the Sephora relationship about what a good launch would look like or what that meant from terms of like metrics or buzz or whatever that may be?

37:30Priyanka Ganjoo:I had no markers. To be honest, it felt like I was trying to get this fashion project completed. I also feel like because it had been this weird time where everyone was closed off, I almost felt like I was building and I didn't know what to expect. but we did have a community. So we had a blog on our site at that time called Kofi Bites. We published a lot of up and coming Gen Z, BIPOC writers on the blog. And they had built this community around them because people loved reading what they were saying. And then they had friends and, you know, we had this network of more like word of mouth that was built.

38:03Priyanka Ganjoo:And so when we launched, it was thankfully not crickets. I think our first day sales were like 10 or$12 ,000, which I thought was like amazing. Yeah, that was amazing because I was not expecting anything. Just for one product, right? Yeah, yeah. We had five shades and like a lot of people bought like five shades and I feel like people were supporting us because some of them might be like people who just came from all of the press and media coverage, but I think many of them were like people from the community we had built. And that first month, I think we did$30 ,000, which again, I was like, wow, people actually want to buy this.

38:36Priyanka Ganjoo:Day one, I actually wrote notes to everyone who ordered. And it was something that I was like, I'm going to try to do for a long time. But then we grew quickly. We're just kind of trying to figure out how do you keep that connection with the consumer alive?

38:51Second Life Host:Yeah. So talk to me about how the business evolved over that first year and at what point you got word that Sephora wanted to carry your brand. You also happened to be the first South Asian female founded beauty brand to be carried by Sephora. Like that is crazy.

39:10Priyanka Ganjoo:I was very much underwater and overwhelmed, to be honest, that first year. You know, we were trying to launch concealer as our product that we would also launch at Sephora with. And as you mentioned, it's a huge investment. And I quickly realized how difficult it was to get the shades right. We did a lot of consumer research for that, but also how quickly the numbers were multiplying because we needed to order at least 5 ,000 units of each shade. At the time we launched with, I believe, 12 shades times whatever the cost of goods is. And that's just product. That's what we've been talking about marketing.

39:44Priyanka Ganjoo:And we're launching at Sephora at the same time. They loved our concealer formula and they were like, we'll launch you when that's ready because then we want you to have a brand presence as opposed to just being an eyeliner brand. I was like, yay. And then I was like, oh no, like the numbers are like a lot. But I do think that we got pretty scrappy. I think coming back to this point of like constraints actually make you smarter. I remember we created these little pouches, the orange pouches for like our launch. I personally like shipped them out to editors in New York and influencers in New York for our friends.

40:16Priyanka Ganjoo:And, you know, people were like, I've secured the orange bag and it was super cute. And like people shared organically because they love the brand. The concealer models were all community casted. And that's the practice we still now follow. We love community casting. So it's all like people who are consumers, but then they also love seeing themselves on Sephora.com. And so the fact that on launch dates, they saw themselves in Sephora, they were sharing with their friends like, oh my God, I'm on Sephora. And so we got so much word of mouth and love just out of those crappy means that, you know, we were able to kind of have bigger impact than what our budget would have allowed.

40:53Second Life Host:That's amazing. And to reiterate, When you're developing products for complexion, it's like one hurdle just getting the product right. And then from there, it's expensive because instead of having like four or five shades of eyeliner, you can't launch anything having to do with skin without a pretty large assortment. And then you have, to your point, 5 ,000 minimums for all of these different shades. It ends up becoming such a money pit in so many ways that I feel like oftentimes complexion becomes something that is a very late category for brands to launch because you have to bring something new to the table.

41:31Second Life Host:It has to be game changing because people become dedicated to whatever. I think probably to complexion more than anything else. Anyone will try out a lipstick or an eyeshadow or whatever, but they get really married to their complexion products. So it has to offer something different that will get them to change. What do you think you got right about concealer?

41:49Priyanka Ganjoo:I mean, definitely I love the formula. And, you know, we did a lot of consumer testing specifically because we were really trying to nail the undertones and the shades. So I think that's the two things I would say. One was obviously knowing that the base formula was something that a lot of people would enjoy. It's actually hydrating. It's medium-billable coverage, especially under the eyes. It doesn't crease as much. You know, dark under eyes was a pain point for a lot of South Asian consumers in particular. And I knew I wanted to kind of solve for that. and so the formula was great and then we really worked hard on undertones and we have such a beautiful shade range that's very unique and a lot of people have messaged me saying like I had not found my shade till I found my shade in Kofi and now I'm a customer for life and I feel like those two things were really really important for us and there's a lot of people who love our concealer who've been asking us to do a skin tint or a foundation and I'm like that will have to wait a little bit because yeah we want to get it right we want to create an exceptional formula but then we also have to make sure we're ready to support that investment because on top of everything you said you think about the testers think about the education we also can have the highest return percent understandably for complexion because you know people buy something online they might not fully love it and so those are just like costs of complexion that I didn't know back then but I'm glad we did it because I think it really solidified us as a brand that's trying to solve a real problem it's ambitious exactly it's ambitious like we're here to say we're here to be a serious player and not just like a trend launch.

43:18Priyanka Ganjoo:We're here to actually build a gondola at Sephora eventually.

43:22Second Life Host:And a solution for your customer that they aren't solving elsewhere.

43:27Priyanka Ganjoo:Exactly. So I feel like it did help establish the storytelling and the mission of why we started the brand.

43:33Second Life Host:So over the last few years, you've had a number of new products. You have a pigmented eyeshadow, you have a staining lip oil, and you have what is the most amazing tubing mascara of my life. I really want to talk about product development and how you think about it. And I also want to say for our listeners as a self-proclaimed mascara snob who buys every single new mascara that hits the market, because I love mascara so much and I'm always looking for something phenomenal. This is the first mascara in a decade where I've just fully switched over. This is my daily driver. This is the product that I use every single day.

44:16Second Life Host:I have not reached for another mascara since I started using it. It is a remarkable product. So talk to me about developing it and how you develop product in general and what you think about it.

44:27Priyanka Ganjoo:I love that, by the way. That's like the kind of endorsement that keeps me happy and warm at night, really.

44:33Second Life Host:Keep making it for life because it is such a good product. It really is.

44:37Priyanka Ganjoo:And the customer testimonials are what keep me going when days are hard and things are hard. So this means a lot to me. And I'm glad we'll have it in the podcast. I'm going to save that clip. Please do.

44:48Second Life Host:Use it. Spread it widely because I feel evangelical about it. Like it's really a game changer. It's really remarkable. And I consider myself highly knowledgeable about mascara and it's changed my life.

45:01Priyanka Ganjoo:That's exactly how we want consumers to feel. I think between Caitlin and I, Caitlin is my product development director who I brought from Ipsy. We had at that point tested thousands of products to the point where we were jaded almost. It was like, oh, like another beauty product, you know, like how I feel like sometimes consumers can feel about launches. It's like, oh, like, did we really need that? I think it was very clear to us that whatever product we launch has to have a clear point of view of why it exists. With the mascara in particular, for example, one of the challenges I had was that a lot of South Asian lashes, my lashes in particular, I don't want to generalize, but what I found from a lot of consumers we spoke to as well, our lashes are like straight.

45:38Priyanka Ganjoo:It's hard to keep them lifted and curled. And traditional volumizing mascaras will give you the volume, but wouldn't hold the lift. A lifting mascara wouldn't give you the volume and the length you want. And so we were like, how do we get all of these three things? And to make a life harder, let's do it in a tubing mascara because tubing mascaras are really easy to remove. Like one of the things we want to do is make makeup approachable and easy. And we don't want you to like pull your lashes out while you're applying mascara. And so I think it was kind of like, okay, how do we create something that addresses a specific pain point for the consumer, but is just a great product that comes in with a point of difference.

46:16Priyanka Ganjoo:And so that's how we thought of like the product briefs. It's a little bit of data, obviously, right? We're talking to consumers. I have a personal pain point. We're kind of like thinking about that. But then we're combining that with like the art of product development, working with the labs. to understand what's the exact thickness of the formula, what's the one that will pair perfectly with it to give you that volume. So it has to have just the right amount of pickup on the brush. And so a lot of testing to get to a place where we're finally like, if this launches in the market, we're not going to be like, meh, another best girl.

46:46Priyanka Ganjoo:We need you to be like, this is the best thing that has happened to me in my life. And not everyone will love it. I think that's something that I learned through that journey at Ipsy was like, when you have like people passionate about something, people who are going to passionately love it and maybe passionately dislike it. And that's okay. At least they're passionate about it. And I think that's what I try to carry and remember when, you know, occasionally we'll get a negative review and I'll be like, oh, like did we mess up? And you're like, ultimately you have people who love this thing. There's a consumer for everything.

47:14Priyanka Ganjoo:And if you find them, you convert them for life and they'll love it. And I feel like that's what we were trying to do is like create these products where people feel like this changed my life. And you need to just find those people and get them to try your product. out.

47:26Second Life Host:Well, I'm one of them. So at this point, when you look ahead, what do you want to do? Like, do you feel like you've made it? Do you feel like you're still just starting out? Where do you see your universe and what you want to build or where you want to go?

47:40Priyanka Ganjoo:I think we're just starting out. But I honestly think there's just so much room to do things in a very intentional way. It's not about putting out a lot of product. We only launch a couple of products every year, but kind of have that storytelling and intention and create something our consumers love. And I feel like because people love the brand so much, we have a lot of permission to go into fragrance in the future. Not that we're doing that, but like if we wanted to do body or hair, I feel like our community has told us like, I want you to launch a hair oil again, not on the roadmap, but coffee.

48:16Priyanka Ganjoo:And I'm so happy that it's like, not about me. It's really the brand has become its own thing that I think has so much room to grow. And then from a expansion perspective, we currently sell in the US, we're in Canada, we just launched in the UK last year with Space NK, which was really exciting. But I feel like we get DMs on social and messages and we know traffic on our site is coming from all over the place, all different places in the world. And I know that there's a consumer for what we're selling, which is this really beautiful, joyful experience with beauty that isn't being served right now.

48:49Priyanka Ganjoo:So I feel like, again, we're just getting started, but I'm really proud of how far I've come. Because to be honest, when I started, like I said, on launch day, it was like, I brought my art project to life. I believed, but I'd never thought that it'd be possible to do all the things we've done.

49:04Second Life Host:Well, congratulations. It is such a pleasure to watch it grow. I'm going to be here rooting you on the entire way. So whatever you have next, I will be there to celebrate it.

49:15Priyanka Ganjoo:We will have a launch coming up soon. Can you tell me the category? Live. Okay. It's going to be in live and it's going to support same idea of like making something that's a little bit harder, usually more approachable and easy and effortless.

49:33Second Life Host:Okay. I love that. So I asked the same three questions of all of my guests, starting with mistakes. And I think it's important to talk about mistakes in our career because everyone makes them, but we tend to give the highlight reel of just like win to win to win. And that's not how it actually works. So I'm hoping that you can tell me about a mistake that you've made at any point in your career and what you've learned from it.

49:58Priyanka Ganjoo:I think a mistake I made in the early days of starting Ko-fi was feeling like if we land this one thing, it's going to solve everything. Magical thinking. Magical thinking. I was like, oh, like if we get to launch date, everything will be figured out. Or if we land the deal with Sephora, we're just going to be amazing and big and massive. You know, and it's like you have to think of that as one option. And you have plan B, plan C, plan D. And that's actually helped me in life because I think you don't realize how much you're like, I hope this happens. And then it doesn't happen. Then you get disappointed and you kind of build that resilience to be like, no, OK, this didn't work out.

50:38Priyanka Ganjoo:I can do something else.

50:40Second Life Host:So a lot of the folks who listen to this podcast are in their first lives. They're interested in starting a second life. They know that they want a change, whether that's in the same industry that they're in, just working in a different capacity or switching industries entirely, but they're scared. As someone who has made some big pivots, what advice would you give someone who's thinking about making that big leap but just hasn't done it quite yet?

51:06Priyanka Ganjoo:I think two pieces of advice. One would be create a safe space for yourself to do that. Because I think when you start something new, it's very challenging usually. and you're feeling like, oh my God, the stress I had in those initial years. I mean, even now, like if I didn't have a partner who was fully supportive, you know, he was paying rent. I was like, I don't have any money to pay rent. And so making sure you're in somewhat of a safe space, whatever that means for you, whether you have friends or a support network to really support you is really important because you don't want to be doing things while your life is not in a good place.

51:42Priyanka Ganjoo:Like that would not create the best conditions and kind of related to that is like give your idea room to breathe and evolve realistically. If I had just been like at one year, okay, I'm going to shut this down. Like we did not make progress. We did not launch. We would not be here. And I think that's something I learned too is like sometimes things do take longer and you kind of have to be like, I'm comfortable giving myself permission to take a little bit more risk and try this for a little bit longer.

52:11Second Life Host:By the way, I love that you're like, if it wasn't a year, well, it was two. That's still not that long in the grand scheme of things. It's still really fast, but it feels like forever when you're on the other side of it. Okay, so my last question is also my favorite question, which is if you could go back in time and speak with your younger self and give your younger self some advice, what would

52:31Priyanka Ganjoo:you say? I think you can dream big. You don't have to be constrained by the ideas of what you can do as a woman, as a girl, as a young person. You can really define and create your own place in the world. And you can make it happen, as crazy as that sounds. A South Asian makeup brand at Sephora was not a thing. You didn't even wear makeup! I didn't even wear makeup! And like the world wasn't ready for that, like maybe 10 years ago, but we're here now and we're here to stay. And so I feel like a lot of us, especially women and girls are taught to dream in a little bit in a box of like, this is what you should be doing.

53:14Priyanka Ganjoo:This is safety. Like this is security in your career. And you can really break through that and do whatever you want and build whatever you want. So that's what I would say. If I did say that to my younger self, my younger self would have been like, what are you talking about, bitch?

53:31Second Life Host:I do like that point, though, because I think it's important that you can tell your younger self anything, but she needs to be in her own experience and live the life so that she gets to the point where she can see that. When I think back to my younger self, like I didn't think I was going to be an entrepreneur. And I think I would have just scared my younger self. Yeah, suggested that I needed to get to a place where I thought that that was possible.

53:56Priyanka Ganjoo:I feel like now I believe by the time I'm 50, I'll be doing something new and different. I kind of know. Yeah, I know. Because I feel like, you know, that's something that I feel through my experiences. Like you said, I feel like I know about myself.

54:09Second Life Host:I love it. Priyanka, thank you for making my favorite mascara. I am such a big fan of what you have built. And it was such a pleasure getting to chat with you today. So thank you again for your time. I really appreciate it.

54:23Priyanka Ganjoo:Thank you. This was the most fun conversation I've had.

54:34Second Life Host:That was the founder and CEO of Kofi Beauty, Priyanka Ganju. For more inspiring interviews with women like Priyanka, head on over to secondlifepod.com, where we have so many more for you to peruse. If you like today's show, please subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. And don't forget to rate and review us. we love seeing you spread the word on social and now you can tag us in your posts we are at second life pod on instagram twitter and facebook we always want to know who you're interested in hearing from on the show so send in your requests to hello at second life pod.com or you can dm us on instagram i'm at hillary kerr the show is at second life pod our dms are always Open.

55:20Second Life Host:I'm Hilary Kerr, and you've been listening to Second Life. This episode was produced by Hilary Kerr, Summer Hammeris, and Natalie Thurman. Our production assistant is Raven Yamamoto. Our audio engineers are at Treehouse Recording in Los Angeles, California, and our music is by Jonathan Leahy.