The Who What Wear Podcast: Coach Creative Director Stuart Vevers on NYFW Prep, the Gen Z Coach Craze, and Designing Cult-Favorite Bags

0:10Hillary Kerr:Welcome to the Who What Wear podcast. I'm your host, Hillary Kerr. And today on the show, I'm speaking with the creative director of coach, Stuart Vevers. Stuart has had such a prolific career starting at Calvin Klein in the 90s and later refining his expertise at brands such as Bottega Veneta, Mulberry, and Loewe. Stuart joined me to record this just one week ahead of his New York Fashion Week show to discuss all things coach, from introducing ready-to-wear in 2014 to reinterpreting the brand for the Gen Z consumer in recent years. And of course, I asked him about his inspiration for the upcoming Spring-Summer 27 collection.

0:54Hillary Kerr:It's all coming up on Who What Wear.

1:03Hillary Kerr:Welcome to the podcast. I have been following your career for a very, very long time. And I just think what you do is phenomenal. And I know that our Who What Wear audience is going to be delighted to hear from you. Can you tell us a little bit about how you first got interested in fashion and thought maybe that was the industry for you? I grew up in the north of England, a working class family. It felt, in retrospect, quite far from the world of fashion. I definitely got into fashion through going out, through clubbing. I'm tall and I was tall for my age at like 15, so I could get into nightclubs quite young.

1:47The excitement of dressing up led to me researching outfits. I used to make things. My grandmother was involved in amateur dramatics at her local theater, and I would go to her house and we'd make outfits or bits of outfits together. And then I started to research designers. I discovered fashion as something to do rather than something to buy with a lot of help from my grandmother.

2:15Hillary Kerr:That's so lovely that you had an early champion in your grandmother. I think that's so important. Talk to me a little bit about moving into the industry after college. I read that your first job was at Calvin Klein and not just any era of the brand, but late 90s Calvin Klein. What was that experience like? In many ways, it was just mind-blowing. I still didn't really know a lot about the industry, but I very quickly realized it was a competitive world. I knew I would have to work hard and stand out and, you know, all of those things. I was actually interviewed for Calvin in London, so they were recruiting in the UK.

2:57I wasn't actually on the interview list, but a friend was going and she divulged the location and I actually just knocked on the door of the interviewer. She was more interested in me because of that. I mean, I don't know for sure, but it seemed like she kind of was interested in the fact that I pushed my way in. I studied women's wear at college and she was interviewing for women's wear. She didn't think I was right for her team. So she actually put me forward for a job in accessories. And that's actually how I got into accessories. I just saw it as like, oh, maybe this is just a foot in the door.

3:35The reason I kind of barged into this interview was because I was really interested in New York in that moment. So that was really my goal. I was looking to get to New York. She asked me to do a project. I did a project. I did another project. And I actually, in the end, was offered a role before I graduated. I never went to my graduation ceremony because I was already in New York, which kind of felt, yeah, it felt good. You know, I'd never been to New York. I think I arrived on a Saturday or Sunday before starting work on the Monday and I'd never been. So it was really wild and exciting. And, you know, I was so young.

4:15I was like 21, 22.

4:17Hillary Kerr:What a time and what a place. What do you think your biggest takeaway was in terms of what you learned about whether it's brand or design or corporate structure from your time at Calvin Klein? One of the biggest takeaways I had was realizing that actually, even though I'd studied women's world, I was happy to explore other things that was important. Personally, it was a big learning for me that design was design. And this was something I was interested and intrigued in. Honestly, I saw opportunity. I saw opportunity there. But then it did mean my next move started to become quite clear because a lot of people who were, you know, mentoring me, teaching me, when I asked advice, a lot of people started to say, you need to go to Italy.

5:10You need to spend time in Italy. You need to get to know how things are made. You need to understand how factories work, how the craftspeople create things. And in my role, my junior role there, I wasn't traveling. I wasn't going. After a couple of years, I decided I would start to look for something in Italy and just see if I could move there and get that experience that everybody was recommending.

5:35Hillary Kerr:From there, you've held a number of interesting positions at very interesting brands from Bottega to Givenchy to Vuitton, where you worked with Marc Jacobs. Talk to me a little bit about that period of your career. I think I was so hungry at that time. I was like a sponge. I was just looking for new experiences and people I could learn from. And that's why I moved quite quickly from New York to Milan to Paris. I was going where the opportunity was and learning just that time in factories, which, you know, I still do that today. I still love spending time in factories with the craftspeople. Working for Mark was really important because he taught me so much.

6:17The attention to detail he gave, the mix of high and low, the humor, the surprise, the culture. working for that brand, there was so much happening. It was just, it was super exciting. And, you know, Mark was very generous with his time and he taught me so much. You know, I remember sitting with him in design meetings at 11 o 'clock at night, two in the morning, and Mark was choosing the edge paint and the color and like the stitch color. It was like, it was a real lesson in like commitment you know no detail too small yeah I learned so so much from him then you joined

6:56Hillary Kerr:Mulberry as a creative director in 2005 and in 2007 were appointed creative director of Loewe talk to me a little bit about taking that step into creative direction and how that changed sort of your day-to-day it was a huge shift for me but I knew that when I was working for Mark Like, towards the end of that time, I started to realize, like, I want to do what Mark's doing. Like, I want the responsibility to make those choices. I want to create an entire world. So it was then that I was able to then go back into the skills I'd learned at university and start to think about women's wear, ready to wear.

7:35But, you know, it's much bigger than that. You're starting to think about casting and campaigns. And so I knew it would be a really big shift, but, you know, I was going from the huge company that was Louis Vuitton to a much smaller brand that was Mulberry. And in fact, a lot of people at the time kind of thought I was crazy, but I wanted to see if I could do it. I wanted to see if I had what it takes to be a creative director and, you know, be able to zoom all the way out and zoom all the way in. And I think that's what often being a creative director can be. It's what I love about being a creative director.

8:13But yeah, it was a huge shift, a huge learning. I remember being very nervous, but really feeling like it was important to do it. Because yeah, like I said, a lot of people were a little confused as to why I'd made that jump.

8:26Hillary Kerr:Well, I think it makes perfect sense. And I also want to talk about your move to coach. Yeah. I remember when we heard the news, the entire Who What Wear team like gasped with joy. We were all so excited. And it's been really interesting to watch since 2013, when you took on the role, how you have both honored this brand that has been so important to so many people for so long and revitalized it as well. talk to me about what your vision was for the brand when you first started. I have to admit, it wasn't an easy decision. I was very happy in the role that I was in. I was really intrigued. It was quite different to what I'd done before.

9:14It was a different area of the market, a different price point. But I already had a lot of affection for the brand from, I think every brand I'd ever worked for had multiple coach bags in the inspiration archive. It's such an important reference. I did a project as part of my interview process. That was when it clicked. I did the project and I loved doing the project and I loved the project. I didn't know whether other people would love it, but something really worked. And that's when I went from being almost just more curious to like, oh, wow, I really, I actually really want this, but I didn't have the job yet.

9:56You know, and I think the enthusiasm and the project, you know, I think it translated to the people I was showing it to and they got that sense. I was also really intrigued by the challenge because, you know, Coach was in a, it was in a different place then. It still had all that amazing heritage, the amazing story. But, you know, when I first joined, a lot of people had written Coach Off. I was brought in to make a change. And that was the, I think that was ultimately the excitement that I got was that I was told as part of that process, we want to change. We want to change a lot. We want to introduce ready to wear.

10:32I knew it was going to be a big challenge, but that's what kind of grabbed me. I was really excited. And when I was very first hired, I think there was a little, there was a bit of a misconception. There was a sense of that there was a desire to make Coach more European, more, you know, like to elevate. And whilst I do think we have elevated the brand, actually the intention was always to stay true to the brand and explore new areas for the brand, but always coming from a really coach place. I wanted to understand what made Coach special. And to me, one of those things was the fact that it's American.

11:11It was really crucial. It makes Coach different. It makes us stand out in the global fashion industry.

11:19Hillary Kerr:So I love the fact that Ready to Wear was on the list of things to do right off the bat. Talk to me about the process of bringing that from conception to reality. I would imagine there's a pretty significant infrastructure. What was it actually like for you? This was very deliberate. It was a choice that I made. We didn't start with a big bang. My first collection for Coach was, if I recall correctly, was 18 looks. I presented it over five days, I think, in a soundstage. We had a static exhibition. We had 18 models. Because I think the expectation was Coach is going to launch big. It's going to have a big blockbuster fashion show from day one.

12:01And I felt like I needed the time to get to know the brand better. We needed to understand our place more. And to your point, there was practical stuff that needed to happen to build to that point. So it was actually my fourth season at Coach when we showed on the runway. We did three presentations before then. And I actually think that was really important. I also think it showed a certain amount of modesty of like, we don't know everything. I don't know everything. I'm learning. You know, come on this journey with us. But it's interesting, you know, some things from that very first season we still reference today.

12:40I was fortunate, I think, there was something came together in that moment. I think it was the focus. We also created the collection quite quickly, so it was quite instinct-based. But everything from the color palette to the rider bag to the shining sweater, they come up again and again. And it was really important because the response to that first collection was quite positive. It was quite a challenging time for Coach and for everyone within the company, all the people who really loved the brand and were very passionate about it. Hearing people speak positively about the brand again, it was really important.

13:19It started the change, I think.

13:21Hillary Kerr:I mean, I do love the restraint of saying we could turn this into 80 looks, but we're not. There's the sense of like, let's get it right at this level and then we can grow. And to be really thoughtful about it, you get the execution right and then you grow from there. And that feels like such a thoughtful and meaningful way to build, whether it's a career or a brand or a collection. I spent a lot of time in the archive, as you could imagine. After spending a lot of time in the archive, I was like, OK, great. I have to look to the future. And there's something wonderfully strange about what was happening in that moment, because I was designing at the same time around the history, but also the future of the brand.

14:08It was a great way to start because starting a new category and creating a head to toe look and a vision. I think that was my most important job in that moment.

14:19Hillary Kerr:I also have to say that I have very much appreciated the way that you have brought a distinctly Gen Z focus to the brand without alienating. I'm not going to call myself older customer, your legacy customers. And I love all of the campaigns that you've launched for the likes of Charlie XCX and Pink Pantherists. You've partnered with Depop for a pop-up of secondhand coach bags. Talk to me about some of these initiatives. I've seen so many brands get Gen Z so wrong. And I feel like Coach is really the blueprint for an authentic connection. And I'm curious about how you got it so right. Thank you.

15:02I'm quite wary about designing at a generation. You know, I think it's a lot of it comes from my instincts. You know, youth culture has always fascinated me. You know, it's how I found fashion myself was essentially through that. clubs, music, subculture. The thing that I love most is that young people tend to challenge inherited ideas of taste. For me, I get really excited by it, but it can be hard. You know, if something you've really mastered a skill in or you feel you really know and understand, and someone comes along and challenges it, you know, it's hard to let go of sometimes. But I found as a design, I think sometimes you have to, and sometimes it takes a minute, you know, it's not instant, but in many ways, I'm much more interested in what a new generation does to coach than in telling them what coach is.

16:01I found it's the interpretation of the next generation that I'm looking to. And often those signals do come from your own archive, things that are outside, that are out in the world. Ultimately, I think it comes down to listening and listening really, really hard and listening sometimes when you don't want to, when someone's telling you something that's going to make your life more difficult because it's not something you know or are comfortable with, but that you're going to have to change. That's maybe one of the answers. I think there's probably many, many more, but that's one for me is that like sometimes I've observed something or I've been told something and it's like, oh wow, I don't know anything about that.

16:43I don't know that reference. Like I don't know whether I even like that. Like, but I'm going to have to think about it and challenge myself.

16:52Hillary Kerr:Well, I love it because I think that it's like the playfulness that is inherent in the brand while still having this very storied past speaks to a level of confidence that really is desirable for an audience. It's like you make these incredible products, but you don't take it so seriously. And I think that is such a wonderful entry point for folks who are starting their fashion journey. Like this idea that you're not going to tell them they're doing it wrong. And in fact, that you often let them lead the way, I think it's been really wonderful to watch. And it's quite different to how a lot of fashion often is.

17:35I do think the world is changing. And I do think that we're going to have to listen a lot more. Because I think a lot of the old rules are just, they're just becoming irrelevant. The next generation just doesn't care about the things that previous generations did. It's changing so fundamentally.

17:55Hillary Kerr:I mean, look, I got my start in print at Elle magazine in the early 2000s. And it was very like the mountain speaks down and this is the only like information flows this way. And, you know, when we started Who, What, Where in 2006, like that was our reaction to saying like, no, this should be a conversation. And it's not just like this is one way a designer can tell us these things, but it's also how celebrities interpret it, how the street interprets it. Let's have a conversation about it. And where you very specifically with coach have, I think, one is that it's still coach. It still has a point of view.

18:30Hillary Kerr:It's not a group project. You're not being dictated to by the audience, but you're really meeting them from a place of authenticity. So I just it's a masterclass. Truly. I want to talk about some of the bags that Gen Z and beyond have been really loving. I mean, we have styles like the tabby bag and then the Brooklyn shoulder bag. I have to say, yes, we see it on Bella Hadid and Elle Fanning and all of the younger girls love it. But I also use it as my work bag. and I am in my 40s. I am decidedly not Gen Z. Talk to me about why you think these bags have such a connection for Gen Z, but then also work for grown-up fashion ladies.

19:16I do think they are very coached. You pick them up and they feel very coached. They look very coached. So I do think that's important. But I also think they've offered something different. there's an ease to it. There's a certain effortlessness in how our best bags are. And I would say Tabby and Brooklyn are very different bags, but they've got a softness about them. They've got an attitude about them. One of the ingredients of some of the most successful bags I've worked on is something that's new. That's something that's different, that wasn't there before. And I do think the Brooklyn is a great example.

19:52like so many of the things that I'd learned over my career of things that should or shouldn't work in a bag, like adjustability, an extra strap. Brooklyn has one strap with no adjustability. It's an unlined bag. It's got a very discreet coach brand mark. It's a natural leather. It's a real leather that will age and soften over time. I think it's precisely for those things that Brooklyn resonated because it didn't look like anything else out there. It had its own personality. Also, the fact you say, you said like the Brooklyn 39, it fits a laptop, you know.

20:34Hillary Kerr:Sure does. It's not a sensible laptop bag, but it does fit a laptop. And, you know, lots of the people I work with here in the studio are using it for that. There's some bags in your career, when you see the first sample, you just know, you get a feeling. It's quite rare and it's really special, but like Brooklyn was definitely one of those. I also want to talk about the tabby, which is like a cult status at this point, which is amazing considering it only debuted in 2019. But I think part of the reason that it has such a cult following is the way that you've been so creative with new iterations.

21:11Hillary Kerr:I'm interested in how you think about a new style versus a variation and how you know when a style is ready to be played with in that way and how you know how far to push it. Once a bag becomes successful, I think the instinct is to protect it, is to protect what it is what people have been drawn to honestly I'm usually more interested in messing with it and I think that's become part of the history I understand that there's something about the original the reference of where it all started but I just think ultimately creativity is about playing with things and trying new things and pushing things and some of them will work and some of them won't.

22:05But so we'd introduced Tabby, the original version. And then not so long after we created the Pillow Tabby. And the Pillow Tabby was created early in the pandemic when we were all working from home. I wanted us to stay connected. I felt it was important for all of us on the team just to keep working. And I also felt it was really important to stay connected to what was happening in the world, like to evolve as the world was changing, to understand our place in it, which was, you know, at the time, a big question, like, where did fashion sit in this moment of so much challenge in people's lives?

22:47And, you know, did it have a place? And it's interesting, one of the things that really made me want to keep working was when, even though all of our stores were closed or most of our stores were closed around the world. And there was a certain point when they were, I think, all closed in North America, people started shopping online and they started to shop for unexpected things, things I didn't expect, like print and color. And it was emotion. People were looking for fashion to bring them joy in this difficult. Yeah. In this difficult time, people were looking for joy. And so that was one of the things that encouraged me to keep working.