The Who What Wear Podcast: Denim Consultant Benjamin Talley Smith Returns to Talk Fall Trends and the New Guest in Residence Denim Line

0:10Welcome to the Who What Wear podcast. I'm your host, Hillary Kerr. And today I'm sitting down in studio with denim expert and designer Benjamin Talley Smith. Ben designs jeans for so many of your favorite brands from Kate to Reformation to J.Crew to Madewell. And today, we chat all about his new denim line for Gigi Hadid's brand, Guest in Residence. We also get into the denim trends to look out for this fall, and Ben gives his prediction for the number one style of the season, a style I never thought would come back. It's all coming up on Who What Wear.

0:57Ben, thank you for joining me today and welcome back to the pod. You were here a handful of years ago speaking with our amazing editor-in-chief, Kat Collings, and this is right after the New York Times called you, and I'm going to quote, the most influential jeans guy you've never heard of. Now, I had heard of you because I have been following your career for a very, very, very long time. But since you had that moment, the New York Times article, the interview with Kat, it feels like you are stepping into the light a little bit more. And you had that amazing collaboration with Madewell earlier this year.

1:32As someone who has been working so successfully for so many years, what made you finally decide to not stay behind the scenes entirely? I think the New York Times piece was obviously an important piece in my life and was a great stepping stone. I've always designed product. I look at Madewell as sort of like a brand building exercise for me. It allowed me to basically create a brand on my own with them, obviously collaborating. I had a brand in the past called Tally. I've had brands and it just sort of felt right to put my name on something and really experiment with that. And it's also helped grow my consulting business in a big way, which is great.

2:12I mean, all of being with you guys, the times piece, everything has really helped sort of my visibility and brands that I hadn't spoken to, I've now spoken to, or people that I would love to work with, I'm now working with. I don't know how you could work with more people at this point, because it feels like you're touching like every major cool brand right now. How do you have the bandwidth to work with so many different brands and people? More people on my team, for sure, which is great. You know, I've built a team around me. The brands do a lot of the heavy lifting. I integrate with amazing teams.

2:44And then I'm always interested in growing myself and learning. As long as I have the time and the bandwidth and know I can service the brands, I usually say yes. And I make sure it's something that I think is interesting. I think it's something that like has legs and longevity. I want to make sure the brands that I work with have the focus that they want denim to be a big part of their business, but really learning. I mean, that's my favorite thing. Like every day, I'm like with somebody else that I'm like, oh, my God, I never thought about doing a gene that way or learning a brand ethos, you know, is always fun.

3:17Do you have any big takeaways from working with Madewell, something that you learned that they really excel at or something that you didn't know about them? What I loved about it was being able to build the product sort of on my own. And I've known Stephen for a long time. I'm Cateron, the creative director. He was amazing and worked with me and the team on how to make it different, but still like part of their brand. We did some things that like were in their world, but pushed it with the purpose of bringing in a more elevated customer or luxury customer into Madewell, which I think worked. And then it was fun for me, like an exercise in marketing and how do we get it out there and how do we tell the story?

3:55And I did all of the marketing pieces with like stamps and signatures and like all of the jeans have the signatures of the people that worked on the product and the hang tag. There was just a lot of like little pieces and details that you wouldn't see normally on a Madewell jean that I nerd out on. The button is like a maze that says BTS. It's like, you know, there's like all sorts of like fun things. I always love when you discover things about product. Yeah. That was the big takeaway with Madewell was sort of just getting to build something, you know. I love that you Taylor Swift Easter egged a Madewell jean.

4:28A hundred percent. If you look at the button, you're like, you're like, Wait, what is that? And it's like BTS. It's kind of cool. You're also currently working on something new of your own, a brand called Subject to Change. Talk to me about the inspiration behind creating it. This is one right there. I've always been interested in handbags, just purely from like a vintage shopping perspective. At every flea market, you see a million different iterations of like old handbags or things that people have made. And I always just thought that was interesting. So I've probably spent four years working on this, just making prototypes.

5:03I've probably made 50 different prototypes over the years. So I take basically reclaimed items or like vintage pieces. That's like the body of the fabric and then the leather is the accent pieces. It all has like vintage locks and they're all different. So it's really like one of one and using alternative materials like canvas or there's some that are made from old mailbags and things like that. They're really cool. Amazing. I think what's also cool is you could even like give me a jean from high school that doesn't fit you anymore and make the bag out of that so they can really be one of one.

5:38The name even itself is like subject to change. It could be a lot of things. So there's a couple of bag silhouettes. You know, I'm not sure what it'll turn into. But for me, it's like a passion project and something fun. You're so free. You have so much leisure time. It also is fun. I do a lot of photography and the website is all photographs that I've taken, like, with basically an old point and shoot camera, like, over the years. I tried to make it look like a Tumblr from, like, 2011. It's a passion project that I think is fun and just a different creative outlet because I do jeans all day long.

6:12And it nods to the jeans, but it's not, you know, it's not a jean. I also feel like there's something to working in a slightly different format that then frees up new ideas about other things in ways that you can't always predict. Totally. I use the same tools I sketch in the same way. I'll make a tech pack. I mean, it's like all the things that I would do in denim, I do for this. It's just like a different supply chain. And then it's also like jeans, you don't really make one of ones. So it makes it very special. Well, I love it. Congratulations. Thank you. So cool. I do want to talk about denim.

6:44So you work across so many different brands for our audience who might not be as familiar with your work or follow you as closely as I do. We're talking about brands like Kate and J.Crew and Reformation. You've worked with Walmart in the past. There's so many different price points, so many different look and feels. I would imagine that obviously every brand has a different point of view and consideration and set of goals and like what they want to achieve from a design perspective. For example, with J.Crew, am I correct in saying it's a newer collaboration? Yeah, the team's just launched. J.Crew has a great denim program.

7:18J.Crew has a great heritage. What was the impetus for this or like what did they want from working with you? I mean, I've known Olympia for, I mean, 100 years. I love her so much. I've been friends with her probably since 2006. Oh, you go back back. Yeah, back back. And she actually approached me to do J.Crew before Madewell. This was probably like four years ago. And the sort of leadership there was like, he should be at Madewell because that's like true genes first. Then eventually they were like, can you also move into J.Crew? And I was like, of course I can. And then for her, she's been doing such a good job of sort of the nostalgia of J.Crew and what it used to be but still feels modern.

7:58And she's so good at styling herself and sort of being that image. And so when she asked me to do it, I was like, of course I'll do it. And then she allowed me to pick new fabrics, update the branding, like do all of the things that I do, redo all the washes, like brought in a fit technician that I've used forever who's amazing. So we were able to revamp it. And the other nice thing about J.Crew was I knew her also their VP of design is a friend of mine who also we did Ula Johnson together. The fit person was with me at Helmut Lang. I mean, the merchant was from Madewell. So this is just a reunion.

8:33Because I've been in and out of so many brands over the years. You work with so many people, and then they know the language you speak. And it just allowed us to really make great product very easily because we all knew each other. Because you had the shorthand. It was great. It's authentic but true to J.Crew. It feels like that sort of 90s, not overwashed. The silhouettes are still modern but still feel like J.Crew. We did some beautiful silhouettes. They also launched the tiny sweaters with Emma Chamberlain and they're all wearing every influencer yesterday was wearing the J.Crew Zoe barrel or whatever.

9:06It's like all of our pieces, too, for denim. So I think it's working and I think it will continue to work. They had denim before and it's sort of like a refresh telling the customer that, like, we believe in it, I think, is important. Do you have a favorite pair or style or two from the collection? The Zoe barrel, which is like a, you know, traditional barrel jean. There's one with a cuff that's cool. There's also there's something called the Jessie straight, which is like Olympia sent me a bunch of her jeans that she wears all the time or that she would style with. And so we built a jean based on that, which is really fun.

9:37There's also like a utility jean that's beautiful. There's a lot of good stuff. And there's a pink jean that's really pretty because J.Crew, it does have a girly aesthetic to it in some ways. So the pink jeans and things like that are more of a prep. We haven't seen colorful denim in a minute. It's coming. It's here. Exactly. I love it. Personally. It's so ingrained in like a certain era of fashion for me. And it's so interesting. We really have not revisited it. No, 2011 was when it was like huge. Yep. 2026. Here we go again. When you're trying to build something that like takes nostalgia into consideration, but then still feels modern and new.

10:15What are some of the things that you look at? Like, is it really primarily about the wash or is it about like where the hem hits? or like what are some of the construction or material things that you look at to keep something from not just being a nostalgia play? Jeans always need to feel authentic. That's sort of a touch point that I've discovered. Like when you try to get too fashion with it, it doesn't feel like jeans. It feels like a fashion piece. So for me, it's always like trying to perfect the wash. I spend so much time in the wash houses. Which just feels like such a wild, weird science that you can't fully control, especially at scale.

10:49Yes. And every new brand that I work with, I always have to sort of sit down and go, like a jean is like a living and breathing piece. Everyone is different. You get 150 in a machine and then you get another 150 in a machine and they all come out a little different. So I spend so much time sitting in the laundry going like, is this acceptable? Is it not acceptable? Is it too far away from what the original standard is? Are the whiskers too bright? I mean, there's so much that goes into it. So subjective. That's what makes it great, though. And that's also, I think, why I've always been employed is because you need somebody that's the expert in the room just because there's so much nuance into the fit because of the wash or the shrinkage or how fabric performs.

11:30There's just so many details within a jean that you have to consider in order to make it look like it's an old jean that somebody has already worn probably or you bought at a vintage store, which is always sort of what I'm trying to achieve. I think someone like J.Crew, that's really it. Like, if you look at all of the 90s catalogs, I was like, how do we do that for now? But also make it feel nicer because I was alive and wearing J.Crew jeans in the 90s and they were rough. And I don't mean that in a mean way, but like, yeah, there was no stretch, but also like thick and it was heavy. And like, I would not, those were hard pants.

12:04Those were not fun to wear. Well, there's a lot of technology that goes into fabric now that makes it soft and feel great. So there's new things. But yeah, trying to get that vibe across too. And then I give credit to obviously like Olympia and the marketing team. They know how to tell the story. And make it feel like it's the old stuff, but also newer. Yeah. It's great. And that Zoe jean is one of the ones that I have. It's so good. It's phenomenal. Yeah. Okay. So you also have a very exciting new denim line launch with Gigi Hadid's brand, Guest in Residence. I'm obsessed with her cashmere. Yes.

12:39I have like a sort of like electric limey cashmere sweater that I wear all the time. People stop me on the street. They're so obsessed with it. I have so many of her sweaters. So talk to me about this collaboration. Why did she approach you? What parameters did she give you? And what was your starting point? She is wonderful. Honestly, it's been great to work on this project. Obviously, Guest in Residence is an established brand already. She's done an amazing job. All of the cashmere is amazing. The lookbooks are fantastic. The brand ethos is perfect. So they wanted to do this category extension, but they wanted to do it at the right time.

13:16So we probably talked for a year plus before we even started to work together. And it was just sort of trying to figure out like how we could do it, what the team setup would be. And then when we decided to press go, it was almost a year ago, probably, that we started. And she's just like a whimsical person to be around and very driven in her direction for the brand. And that it's so much built around like what she wants to wear or what she wants her customer to wear. So it was actually really refreshing because she showed up on the first day and was like, these are things that I really love. And it was it wasn't exactly what I thought it would have been.

13:54And I was like very surprised how engaged she's been at every moment. We made jeans that like feel like cashmere. I mean, it's amazing. They're so soft. They drape. They're super comfortable, but they're real and they look like real jeans, mainly 100 percent cotton. There's like we did this cotton Lyocell that that has like a super drape to it, which is really nice. And then for her, it's like she's got to try everything on. She's got to wear it. The funny part is her wear testing is often in the public eye. And I'm always like, what? She was like, sent me an apology email the other day. And she was like, I'm sorry.

14:26I know I wasn't supposed to wear that jean, but I wore it to Disneyland. And I was like, oh, come on. Well, what do you think was going to happen? And the launch is like imminent, actually. Like today, some of the campaign images went up because they're the regular collection launch. Her and Bella shot in Montana on a ranch. And it's just like all of the imagery that I've seen has been amazing. I think it'll be a great extension for the brand. Every brand, especially like that, is styling with vintage Levi's. The girl wants a jean from like the website. She's looking and going like, oh, that style was something great.

14:56I wish I had that jean. And they have that jean. Amazing. Well, there are four distinct silhouettes in the collection. Can you walk me through some of the details about each fit and what purpose they would serve in someone's wardrobe, starting with the traveler jean? That's the super drapey, very casual, like great jean. Could wear it in a car on a road trip. You can wear it in a car. You can wear it on a plane. All those. It's cotton lyosil. and lasso is like a wood pulp fabric. Basically, it's sustainable, but it gives the drape to the denim, which is really nice. There's always like little details that she was really into.

15:29Like there's an inset in the out seam, which is kind of cool, like a novelty detail. We added these like darts at the back of everything. The waistband patch came from like her couch at her house. She was like, I love this leather. There's also a really beautiful detail, which is she paints a lot in these little teeny sketchbooks. And like the first meeting, she pulled out like, like, hey, look at these. these paintings, we were trying to figure out sort of how to do the branding. And so we knew we needed a pocket flasher on the back of the jean that like, you know, so you can tell what style it is, what size essentially.

16:00And she was like, what if it was a paint by number of like my pictures or paintings? And I was like, please. So I took photos of like her of her things and then we made it into paint by number and they're all individual postcards. So when you get the jean, you can paint it yourself and it's a postcard and you can send it to your friends. That's so cool. And then we made them also, like, not everyone is different, but like, if you bought two of the same jeans, they probably have a different postcard on them, which was like, you know, a nightmare in production, but so fun. And so we'll continue that idea, which is fun.

16:31But that's the traveler. So it's just, it'll be, it's a great, like, sort of, I would say, like, casual wide leg is super comfortable. What about the everyday jean? Everyday jean is like kind of your classic straight leg. It has a cuff to it. It's like it has that like sort of front shelf that you get from like an old men's jean a little bit, but it fits much better. And that was one where she was like, oh, my God. She's like, I love it. And then she cuffed it and put it with like loafers. And I was like, that's it. That's perfect. And she was like, yes, now I love this jean. So part of it is like styling with her and going like, how are you actually going to wear this?

17:03Which is so interesting. I feel like what a wild fit model to have. Entirely. Yeah. You're like, OK, yeah, yeah. You know, if you like it, great. Someone who's been tried on everything, been styled by the best, has worn like every incredible designer known to mankind. And a great opinion on it, too. And knows what she doesn't like either, too. What about the Weekender, Jean? The Weekender is like more of a casual, relaxed straight. We did it with a cut hem, which makes it just like a little bit more casual. We also did a lot of corduroy, which is nice, some really beautiful stuff and like some garment dye colors.

17:36And then in the color world, we're doing everything with like a sun fade on it. So it feels like lived in it. It feels like the cashmere. It's like everything always has to feel like kind of whimsical for this brand. So that's the weekenders in that vibe for sure. And then finally, what about the workday gene? The workday is sort of the utility trend that I see everywhere. We did this one with like some hints to some old like Levi's engineer jeans. It has a dart in the back and we sort of played with the back pockets. But it's in the campaign you'll see. And there's also we did it in like an orange flocked denim, which is just awesome.

18:09It was actually a style that we put into the following season. And we were like, we have to get this. We have to get it. And they were going to shoot the campaign like two days later. And I was like, I need to get you this jean because it's so pretty. Yeah. And she was like, yes. So that one's going to be great. So that's so cool. OK, well, we've hinted a little bit about what's to come for fall. But I'm wondering if you can give a sort of like big picture, broad strokes for 2027 fall. Low rise. Yeah. I mean, to me, there's so much low rise coming everywhere. and there's different versions of it.

18:43So there's like the on-body low-rise Paris Hilton world. Oh, yeah. That's coming. It's like a little bit more in like the younger demographics still, but we launched a gene called the Conforti for Kate like a week ago. It's that like low-rise boot slash flair. Wow. It's amazing. She put it on the runway like a season ago and it's finally out and it's just an epic gene. Like we do tons of high-rise. We have the Danielle and we have the Dane and all these like classic things. But this is where I feel it's going or I see it's going. So there's that version. And then there's like a gene called the caro, which is like sits lower on the hip and is low rise.

19:21So like there's two ways you can do low rise. It doesn't always have to be like tight and on body. It can also just be sort of like low slung. Yeah. But still like sort of smaller fly, that whole deal. I just see more and more of that coming from everybody, you know. Okay. Not only me, but everybody. Okay. I'm here for it. All right. We also talked a little bit about color. Are there washes or rinses that you feel like are really about to be in the spotlight, emerging trends? I think color for sure. Also prints, like tons of stripes, things like that. Oh, God, here we go, 2011. Yeah, it's all coming back.

20:01I mean, I like it. It's been 15 years. It's been a long time, yeah. We're doing color in new and interesting ways, though, like for guests and residents, we'll do sun fade. Yep. J.Crew, we are washing down the colors a lot more, which is nice. You can do a lot of different things that you couldn't do in 2011, too. Like there's a lot more processes. We're doing garment dye color with tint, like indigo that you bleach down and then you dye back out to like a pink or something like that. It's really pretty. You can get color in like all these new and different ways, which is, you know, fun. And that's I nerd out on that stuff.

20:34I'm always like, how do we make it the same but different? So I always like cuff jeans. I'm like. Talk to me about cuffing. Yeah. Should you buy them cuffed or should you cuff them yourself? You could go either way. We do. I sell a lot of like pre-cuffed jeans, but we almost never tack them. So you could like cuff or uncuff. OK. The Madewell collaboration, I did a jean called the Coolidge, which had like a double cuff. and Jane Herman, who you know also, came and tried on all the jeans in my office and she cuffed it three times because she's like a little bit shorter, wanted to wear it with like a loafer.

21:08And I was like, it's great. And then, you know, I did a jean called the Karo for Kate that Kaya Gerber was photographed wearing and she's uncuffed it. And I'm like, that's the Karo jean. Yeah. Because she's so tall. So, I mean, it's kind of up to you. There is a lot of cuffing for Kate. We did all these like cuffed skirts and things like really, really exaggerated cuffing, it's sort of here to stay. So with the low-rise jeans that are coming, are there certain styles or brands that we should really keep an eye out for that you think are really nailing it? There is a jean that everybody talks to me about, and it's the Frame Amelia jean, Amelia Gray.

21:45It's this, like, low-rise sort of boot cut, and that's the one that I hear about that I didn't do, you know? Each brand does a version of their own. What about washes? Is it dark? Is it faded? Is it in between? Like how much distressing is going on? What are your thoughts? It's washes like we always do a classic wash range sort of anywhere. This diesel jean that Olivia Rodrigo was wearing at Coachella, I keep seeing everywhere. And it's this like processed, it's like a little bit dirtier, a little bit sort of hotter in the thigh. It's got more process. I'm seeing more of that. And I think that that's interesting.

22:22And that's fun for me because I get to like extend the wash range and do more fun things. So I would say like things that are a little bit more of that, like 90s, early 2000 diesel nostalgia. You know, I see that in all of like the younger girls are buying like the Depop, whatever, True Religions and all that stuff or old diesel. But we're all doing a version of that or new washes. Once again, I'm glad I kept all of those. Right. Yeah. Same. It's like all of the old ones. That was my first gene was like a diesel gene from like 98 or something like that. Yeah, it was the cool sorority girl jean at USC in the early 2000s.

23:01Like you had to have a diesel jean or else like you couldn't leave the house. Yeah, exactly. Well, pull those out. I'm sure they're great. I'll make them into a bag if they don't fit. Right. There you go. Are there any high rise jeans that you feel like are still hanging in there or are still relevant? Low rise is for a specific person, too. High rise sort of lives forever. I mean, the Danielle from Kate just, it won't quit. Thankfully, you know, it won't quit, but it's great. And then we have something called the Dane, which is basically the wide leg version of that. Those seem to continue to work.