The Who What Wear Podcast: The Bear's Molly Gordon on the Importance of Female Friendships—and Delusion—While Making It in Hollywood

0:10Hillary Kerr:Welcome to the Who What Wear podcast, your direct line to the designers, stylists, beauty experts, editors, and tastemakers who are shaping the ever-evolving world of fashion. I'm Who What Wear's co-founder and chief content officer, Hillary Kerr. And today on the podcast, I had the pleasure of sitting down with actress, writer, director, and producer, Molly Gordon. We got to chat in studio for this episode, so if you want to watch the best bits of this interview, make sure to hit the link in the episode description. Molly was Who Outwear's June cover star, and we clearly can't get enough of her.

0:48Hillary Kerr:You likely know her from playing Claire on The Bear, or from past roles in Booksmart, Theater Camp, or Shiva Baby. Of course, we talked about all things The Bear season four, but we also dove into her new, hilariously absurd, genre-bending film, Oh High, which she co-created and stars in. The film comes out in two days, and you must trust me when I tell you to go see it in theaters. I truly loved it. Without giving too many spoilers, it involves Logan Lerman, bondage, and the aftermath of calling a woman crazy. We're discussing the inspiration behind her new projects, what it's like inside her wildly creative group of friends, and how Molly's developed her red carpet style.

1:37Hillary Kerr:It's all coming up on Who, What, Where.

1:47Hillary Kerr:Molly, thank you for joining me. I've been so excited to sit down with you. We're going to talk about The Bear. We're going to talk about your new movie, which I am obsessed with, like in a creepy good way. Can we talk about your Who, What, Where cover? Yes, please. Thank you so much for having me on the cover. Our pleasure. We were all so excited about it. tell me how did you feel about being able to live out your sea captain fantasies? I mean, it was so exciting. I've just always wanted to have a boat shoot. That's on your list? Yeah, that's on my vision board. And just to kind of like feel the curtain, it was a very windy day.

2:24We weren't allowed to go out on the sea. So we had to stay in the port and it was very choppy. And the photographer and a lot of people were struggling with being very seasick. Well, that did not come through at all. I was fine, but they were like, it's going so well. It's great. But everyone was holding in some vomit, but it was still my dream. And then you guys gave me my full dream, which is that I got to dress up a camera assistant as a captain.

2:52Hillary Kerr:Where did that idea come from? It came from my mental illness. I was like, oh, I just have to have a captain, obviously. And I said, hey, put him in a hat. And then he was like, I don't want to do this. And I was like, well, you're doing it. So there you go. Everyone came back from that shoot and said like, oh my gosh, she has the best energy. It's so incredible. Are you just cool? Or do you like actively practice like vibe curation when you're out and about? I just, that's very sweet. I don't know. Life is so hard. We're in such an awful moment in the world that it's like, we're so lucky that this is part of my job that I get to play dress up on a boat.

3:28So I just was in such a great mood and I never thought that I would get to do any of this stuff. The fashion was so beautiful and I just felt giddy.

3:37Hillary Kerr:You're like, we're living the dream. We're on a stationary boat and everyone's getting seasick and we're playing dress up. It's just a Tuesday at work. Yeah. If I vomit on the lighting person, then we'll just move forward. I think one of the things that folks get really excited about is like anytime you and your pals, Rachel and I, like whenever people see you together, there's generally like a comment that says dream blunt rotation. What is your creative energy like when you're with your friends? How do you zone in on who you want to work with, who you want to create with? How have you come to that?

4:10That makes me laugh because the idea of me, Io, and Rachel High together is a nightmare of the anxiety that would happen there. I feel like I've just been very lucky in the last few years to manifest like these groups of especially female friends that are actors, writers, creatives. I had this summer where I shot Shiva Baby, where I met Rachel. And I shot this movie, The Broken Heart Gallery, where I met Geraldine, who's in Ojai. I was like, oh, these are soul sisters to me. And then they both were like, you have to meet our friend Io. And then my friend Shana, who's a writer, and Mitra, who's in the Bayer now.

4:51This industry is so isolating, but it's like so nice to just have this group that's like all pushing each other forward. And then also who are creating their own things and can give each other jobs. So it's like a nice thing.

5:03Hillary Kerr:I also really appreciate the fact that you seem to have come straight out of the gate from like a hyphenate standpoint of wanting to do lots of different things. You have already started working on so many different projects in so many different capacities. How do you assess, like, this is what I want to do or this interests me as well? What is your mindset? I think that as an actor, you have to wait for someone to go. Here's a job. Now you can be creative. And so I just always wanted to be in charge of my own kind of life in that way. I always just imagined that I would be creating my own material.

5:39And then also I wasn't getting jobs as an actor. So I started out making web series with my friends just to get an agent.

5:45Hillary Kerr:And people were like, you're not good. I'm not going to give you a job. And I was like, totally fair. Watch me take a long time to get a job. I just feel like they all feed each other where getting to be involved, writing it or directing it is such a gift, but it takes you fully out of your life. You can't make two movies a year as a director. Like I can't even make a movie a year. Like you, it takes everything. So then to get to pop into things like the bear and act in them, but also get to kind of have a dream film school experience, get to watch Chris and Joanna direct and be like, oh, I'm going to take this when I go do this.

6:18And then if I'm not getting a job in either thing, it's nice to be able to turn to the other thing. You know, theater camp and Ojai both took five to six years, like just happened when they happened. It's like, I have to pay my rent. So it's also like to wait five years for a project to make an indie movie where I'm not going to be paid that much. It's like, I got to work as an actor too. Like mama has to pay her Rent too, yeah, also.

6:39Hillary Kerr:How do you stick with an idea for five to six years to see it through? Like, how do you stay interested in an idea throughout that time? Or does it continuously evolve through the process? How do I stay with something? Delusion. Great. It's so weird, but I've heard so many no's and you're just like, all right, going to keep going. And then have collaborators who are as delusional and as hardworking as you are to keep pushing it forward. And you just have to keep believing in it. But it's hard to keep the faith sometimes. I have ones right now that I'm pushing up the hill that are like in the second and third year, fifth year.

7:11Hillary Kerr:And I'm like, can I still face the rejection of this every day? Are you a better writer from acting in other people's projects or a better director from being able to steal ideas from Chris at the Bear or whatever it is? Do you think that by doing all of the different things, it makes you better at all of the things? Yeah, I think directing a couple of years ago made me such a better actress. also just realizing how much it doesn't have to do with me it's like if you don't want to be collaborative don't work in film you go in and you just do your scene but then so many people come in after and edit it and add music and change the lighting and change the coloring of the scene and all this stuff it's just so not about you it's about the collective so all you have to do is come in and do the best you can do well it's also interesting to think of like okay well if you're directing and that makes you see that it's not about you as an actor yeah then in a way I would imagine that would be very freeing.

8:04Hillary Kerr:Like it would take you, I can imagine, out of one's potential insecurities. Totally. I think before I would be like, well, I ruined it. That take was the worst thing in the entire world. Or sometimes your mistake is like randomly your best take because it's the most alive and they'll cut it in a way that it'll be like the most surprising moment or something. And the more that you can get it out of your head as an actor and just be like fully present, the better, which is so hard for someone with my anxiety to do. Okay. So I feel like I would be possibly like tart and feathered if I had you here and we didn't talk about the bear.

8:39Hillary Kerr:So let's talk a little bit about season four. It's out in the world, spoiler free at this point in time. How does it feel now that people are getting to experience the ride with your character and come along on the journey. I feel so lucky to be a part of that show. It's just this odd combination, like the filmmaker being great, the actors and the experience being really fun and people liking it. And then getting to work with Ayo this season was like, oh my God, Claire and Sydney finally get to be together. Yes. And then the wedding was so much fun under the table with the entire cast. And then, yeah, this season, like getting to kind of have this really beautiful scene with Jeremy written by Chris, where Jeremy and I both got to kind of say these things that I think both of our characters had been waiting to say for like a long time.

9:33And it felt like this beautiful release. And then to get to work with someone like Jeremy, who I think is one of our greatest actors.

9:40Hillary Kerr:That scene in particular was so raw. Like you guys were so present in it. Was that fully like word for word? Did you get to improvise in the bear at all? Like, what is that process like? That scene was very word for word. Chris really pushed us to yell at each other in that overlapping section. But we did get to improvise a bunch in the wedding with John Mulaney, which was really fun. Chris was just like, Molly, go over there and say something weird to John. And I think John and I are talking about the brazzatos. And John is kind of like, what do you think about them? And I said, like, they're a group of people that feel things very deeply or something.

10:19And that was really fun to just improvise how lovable and insane and relatable this family is. But also that Chris knows all of us so well. He'll like write lines that we would say because we've all been friends for so long. And then it was fun to do the scene with Ayo and watch her give this acting tour de force. And then at the end of that scene, And we're laughing and she's like, I look really gross because she's been sobbing and has mucus everywhere. But I actually thought Io looked gorgeous because I do think you look more beautiful when you've cried. And so those were some fun improvs, but that was kind of just Io and I being friends.

10:52No, you look really pretty.

10:55Hillary Kerr:So as you look ahead, do you have any storylines that you would really love to see play out or break or change in some way? I'm going to just follow Chris down whatever he wants. I absolutely love Liza's character. And so just want to follow her more. And then I love Sarah and Eben's flirtation that's happening this year. I'd love to see more of that. But yeah, just classic yelling in the kitchen, more cooking. I want to manifest Jeremy and Ayo and Eben screaming at each other. Just more of that. Yeah. Just more yelling. Yeah. Just more cooking and yelling. All of the classics. I'd love to come in and just yell at someone.

11:33Hillary Kerr:That'd be fun. Are yelling scenes hard or are those the fun ones of all of the dramatic scenes? Like what is the most fun to do? I feel like the most fun scene I ever had on the bear was still that first scene in the grocery shop with him because I loved the show. I was such a big fan of Jeremy's and that was my first scene. And that was just like, whoa, oh, this is so crazy that this is happening. And Chris shoots really quickly. You do like three takes. That's it? Yeah. And he shot and he was like, and we're done. Good night for the day. And then of course I was overthinking and I went home that night and I was like, well, you've ruined everything and ruined your career.

12:11And everyone hates you. You know, just casual thoughts. Yeah, of course.

12:14Hillary Kerr:So do you like working that fast? Is three takes the right pace? How do you feel about it on the other side when you're in charge? Is that what you want? I think Chris, he makes every actor show up ready to go because a lot of times, you know, you have a lot of takes. So like you don't really know your lines and you kind of just like no one's ready right away. And on the bear, everyone's just like ready. And it's made me more confident being like, OK, we got it. And if we don't, we'll figure it out. And like it should be imperfect. That's life. And especially with a show like this, like the more human that it is, Jeremy and I were talking and you'll be on like a normal set where like they're just doing the normal amount of takes.

12:51and then you're like, wow, this is such a long day. And it's like just completely normal.

12:56Hillary Kerr:But it's just like you got used to a different way of working. A different pace. Okay, that makes sense. Chris has gone on record saying that he thinks that you have like all of the skills to be a fantastic director. And that leads me into wanting to talk about your new project, which you didn't direct, but you co-wrote, co-produced, and star in. It's called Oh High. I watched it the other night. I am obsessed. impressed. It is hysterical. It is fascinating. I was locked in for the entirety of it. And for me to be locked in after a long day of work and putting two children to bed and maybe having taken a gummy, like that is hard to lock in at that point in time.

13:37Hillary Kerr:Like sleep wants to lock in. Talk to me about it. Where did the idea come from? First of all, not a lot of people have seen it. So it means a lot that you like it. And I love that you watched it high. Thank you for revealing that. Allegedly. Allegedly. The idea came from Sophie Brooks, who directed it, is one of my best friends. And in the pandemic, she came to me and she was like, I have an idea for a movie that's about a couple that go away on a trip together. And then he says he didn't know they were a couple and she holds him hostage. And I was like, I love that. I'm fully in. And Soph had gone through a bad breakup five years earlier.

14:11And then I went through a bad breakup and she was like my guru and both of these men shout out to them we love them we're on good terms with both of them but they both kind of left without having these like closure conversations they never want to have a closure conversation they never do so this movie was kind of the wish fulfillment of the darker parts of ourselves if i was five percent crazy a year would i trap said man to have this conversation iris my character in the movie goes off the rails but also like we're all a little crazy. And for the right person, you're not too much. And yeah, we just wanted to like make fun of ourselves because I'm insane and Sophie's insane.

14:50Hillary Kerr:Were there any moments when you were developing the script where you're like, this went a little bit too far. We need to reel this back in. We just had to, I think, like make it more equally weighted. It's from the female gaze. It's our experience. We don't want it to be a takedown of men. I want to also have people come away from it and be like, oh, I actually felt connected to the other character. To that point, I identified with the male character more because I went through a period of time when I was very emotionally unavailable. And it gave me some moments of like, oh God, I definitely did some of this like vampire nonsense to people.

15:25Hillary Kerr:And that is not cool. There are soft girls out there. They're soft. Anyone's like, I'm not avoidant at all. And neither is Logan. We're the opposite. We're both like very Iris coded, but I have had guy friends and girlfriends reach out, especially when the trailer dropped because there's like a line of like you made me scallops and my guy friend reached out and he was like god this happens all the time like I make a girl dinner and she thinks that I like her I'm like oh my god fuck you but you know what I also think in my life I've just wanted to hear what I wanted to hear sometimes and I haven't been honest so it's made me think about that as well it encompasses so many different tones like it's funny and it's sexy and then the great moments of friendship but then they're also like suspense and horror to it how did you meld all of that together because it's complicated and you like stuck the landing thank you that was like the hardest part because we really wanted to blend genre but you know we would do a test screening and people would be like okay we think that she's going to kill him would you want them to think that a little bit totally we want to do that and then flip it on its head because there are moments in a relationship where you've gotten drunk and suddenly you have this fight and you're like, oh, I don't know you at all.

16:40And we wanted to use those and play with like obsession makes you crazy. And also like play with how miscommunications, yeah, can just lead to like the darkest moments. That was fun with our camera positions to kind of think about the way that the Stephen King movie Misery, how Kathy Bates was framed, and then use a kind of horror score to put you in Isaac's point of view. Because being in a relationship sometimes is like being in a horror movie. And then also like my humor gets me in trouble all the time. Like I've said crazy shit that people have thought was real before. And it's like, I'm just kidding.

17:15I'm just kidding. And I am a very weird, absurd person. I make fun of the wrong things and all that. So it's like, let's throw all of this in that. Let's make people a little bit uncomfortable. Let's have them laugh. Because I think, you know, I'm just so sick of the like unlikable female conversation. Yes. And so it's fun to have a character right now that is kind of like dark and twisted. And loved by her friends. Yeah. And like have Geraldine's character come in and be like, I'm here for you. I accept you. Probably in a week we're going to talk about this and think about what you did. But right now.

17:49Hillary Kerr:But right now we're going to cast a spell. Yeah, exactly. But it's been fun to see the reactions and see that maybe some other people have freak humor like I do. Yeah. Talk to me about witchcraft. that there's a witchcraft element to this movie. As someone who started going to the psychic eye bookstore when I was 12, it's a real thing. I felt very appreciative of that moment. Do you believe? I fully believe. Sophie is way more into it than I am. She's always like, let's burn this. And I'm like, what? But I really am into manifestation, psychics. I just found this English, Marisa Bella, this actress on industry, just told me about this English witch Chu is on TikTok that I have to send you that I'm obsessed with and I've followed some of her stuff.

18:30We have to put our hopes on to something because life's too crazy and sad to not.

18:35Hillary Kerr:Well, I love that moment. I thought it was really great. It made me all kinds of happy. I'm like, the girls need more witches. You know, some of the feedback we got on the script originally was like, well, that's not believable. It's like, you don't understand. Every time I'm sad, Geraldine is my real friend is like, okay, like what spell are we doing? How are we manifesting? Do you have a lock of his hair? Like this is real life. That's like a very grounded part of it. I love that witchcraft is one of the most grounded parts of it. I'm like, that's a grounded part of it. Okay, so I know that you have some upcoming projects that you're going to be directing.

19:07Hillary Kerr:First, there's small parts, which is a heist story. Talk to me about this. It's a reimagining of this Bette Midler movie called Outrageous Fortune. Yes. Yeah. Oh my gosh. I'm so happy that you know it because so many people don't know it. It's such an incredible film. The 80s were great. I've seen everything Bette Midler has ever done. Shelly Long, Bette Midler. And yeah, my writing partner, Ali Levitan, and I have like a new take on it. And it's a kind of accidental heist movie. We're really excited about it. And I think it's going to be very outrageous and very inappropriate and bloody. And it's about two out-of-work actresses.

19:49So are you shooting it now? No, we just finished the script, basically. So we're now moving forward with thinking about who would be in it and stuff. You know, Bette is like a North Star for me as a performer. So rewatching this movie for the last year, like every few weeks has been a gift.

20:06Hillary Kerr:Oh, my gosh. That's so exciting. And then you are also going to have your solo directorial debut. you? So Allie and I also shout out to Allie, who's an incredible writer and performer. We wrote a movie that is about a high school reunion and we're making that for A24. Wait, this is Peaked? This is Peaked. And we're casting that to make it. And just so people know, it's P-E-A-K-E-D. Yeah. Someone Peaked in high school. It's about the two most popular girls in high school who are not invited to their high school reunion and go back to reclaim their glory days. What is the relationship to Romy and Michelle?