Toni Chapman: The Moody Foody

23:41Toni Chapman:So a lot of steaks, stir fries, chicken. And we were just playing around with different things. We even went rogue at times. We did cookies that people really like, chocolate chip cookies. To this day, people see me in the streets. They're like, we love the cookies. And they're like protein cookies. And yeah, just a whole bunch of different stuff. That's amazing. So you spent five years primarily dedicated to this venture, but it's still alive and well and serving thousands of people, right? It's still alive and well and serving, but I will say we hit our height at COVID. Yeah. And so I'm always honest about this because COVID catapulted our business.

24:19Toni Chapman:It was almost like this perfect storm of just as I got the support and team and we were just getting our footing, COVID happened. And so I remember thinking, yes, this is my chance because I knew that people would be home. They were afraid of grocery stores. I had an entire army of friends and family members that had lost their jobs in restaurant or in food service that needed work. And so I kind of created this master plan of making it all come together. So we would reach out to businesses and corporations and we'd say, hey, morale is low. Your employees are home. Why don't you send them lunch for the week?

25:00Toni Chapman:Not just any lunch, this colorful lunch. Supplements, you know, their hard work. Everyone's at home. Everyone's working hard. Everyone's sad. And yeah, they loved it. Everyone was like, yeah, of course we'll do that. So not only did we have the retail business, but now we're building out B2B. And that was where things really started to grow because now we're, you know, doing 100 deliveries just in one day for one company. And then, you know, they continue to use you. So I think COVID really catapulted us. But then, like a lot of businesses, when everything opened up, people were really excited about dining out again.

25:36Toni Chapman:People were really excited about cooking again. people are really excited about going and supporting their local business because they understood how many businesses died. So the act of like walking down the street to get a sandwich became a thing and we lost a lot of business and that was really challenging. I mean, we're still operating, but that was my first time feeling that in business. Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, like the expansion and contraction that has happened. I mean, we're still feeling it today. I feel like the market is still course correcting. At what point as you were going through all of this, did you start thinking about wanting to do more than feeding people and wanting to teach them how to feed themselves?

26:21I'm so interested about the genesis of the recipe, development and content creator side of your career when that began.

26:29Toni Chapman:So it's so funny during COVID, we were having to practice social distancing. And so I said, I'm going to work remote. I had cameras. I would just watch what was happening at our facility. So I was spending a lot of time at home. And so I started cooking again, like everybody else. I was one of the people that was making bread from scratch. I was making soups. I just started cooking at home. I'm now in another relationship by this time. And I have a partner. He also loves to eat. And so now I really loved being in the kitchen again and loved being a home cook. I realized that's what I really loved.

27:03Toni Chapman:And I was reclaiming it when I made that transition and I scaled the menu back and I went more meal prep, more healthy. It was great for business. But like my heart was in the comfort cozy recipes. It was in braising, stewing, frying and, you know, making cakes from scratch. So I was doing that. And I literally remember I have no idea how this happened. But I remember one day I found out about TikTok and I was like, I'm going to make a little TikTok video. I didn't have any idea about that. I remember I was cooking with one hand and I was just making a TikTok. And I loved how it felt. And it got like 400 views.

27:43Toni Chapman:And people are like, looks great. I made an eggplant lasagna. I'll never forget that. Because that was one of the dishes that I loved to make during COVID. And so my 400 views really inspired me. I realized, wow, I have people watching. Let me do this again. So a few times a week, I would make my videos religiously. I really ironed out time. There would be time where friends would call me and say, hey, sorry, I have to do something. I wasn't getting any traction to society standpoint. But to me, you know, the 12 comments meant something to me and the 400 views meant something to me. And it just ultimately, it just made me happy.

28:18Toni Chapman:Then we go viral. One video. I really don't remember which one it was, but I did make something. It just took off. And again, we're at the early stages of that. So the impact of it is, okay, you wake up now and you have 50 ,000 followers from one video. And TikTok, of all of the platforms, when it comes to actual like overnight sensational growth, that's the one place where it can happen. Absolutely. It's a place where it rewards you for consistency. And that can be a good thing and it can be a bad thing, right? Because we're human and everybody needs breaks. But if you are incredibly disciplined with TikTok, you can be very successful.

28:56Toni Chapman:And so, you know, I had the 50 ,000 followers. I'm at a place where there's an opportunity and I'm taking advantage of it without really knowing what was at the end. I didn't even know that there was a creator economy. I had no idea. I had no idea that that existed. I'm just now making these videos and I'm growing. Now I'm at 100K, 200K, 300K, and the videos are going viral now, every post. Then someone told me one day, hey, do you have a manager? And I was like, a manager for what? And they were like, oh, to make money off of your videos. I'm like, make money? I'm just doing this for fun. And they were like, this is an entire business.

29:33Toni Chapman:And I had no clue. I mean, I was shocked once I found that out. That was my next phase. So talk to me about some of that earlier content and very specifically about recipe development and the testing process. Like, how do you know when something is ready to share? Oh, that is a really, really good question. So early on, I actually wasn't a developer yet. I was just making these videos. But then I realized that people really, beyond wanting to watch for some reason with me, they were asking me, hey, can you show me? I felt that I was starting to be respected and trusted in this way. And it came with a sense of responsibility.

30:17Toni Chapman:So I said, okay, I need to start taking this more seriously. Because I would just make the videos and like throw up a random recipe. I didn't know if it was actually accurate or not. But I was like, I want to take this more seriously because I want to be respected and I want people to really trust my recipes. And so I would test them. I wouldn't film. I would test them one to two times in the early stages. Now it's six to seven, depending on the recipe. Oh, wow. Yeah. At this level of development, there's levels. And I would test them and I would get them right. And then I started sharing them.

30:48Toni Chapman:And I think there's two different types of creators within food, people that are there for sheer entertainment, but people actually cook and make the recipes. And so I felt a lot of pride in that, you know, to develop the recipes for them to work for people to post them. It meant everything to me. And that right there was my passion more than anything. And I started working on building a little notebook of these recipes that were most sacred to me. And I launched Tony's recipes.com, which is my blog. It's a free resource for people to make my recipes, and that's also a business in itself, it's an SEO business that does very well, you know, I rolled with what I loved and here we are.

31:27Toni Chapman:I love that. Talk to me about the different levels of recipe testing. Yeah, I think it really just depends on what the recipe is. Everyone has a different oven, people use different vessels. And what I've learned along the way working with BuzzFeed, working with amazing food stylists, like, you know, getting access to different food media companies like NYT Cooking, I've learned along the way that you really have to take that into consideration and kind of have a recipe that works across the board. Whether someone has a brand new sub-zero oven or a oven that is hanging on, the recipe needs to work.

32:03Toni Chapman:And so that was a little difficult for me in the beginning, but holiday recipes, cakes, anything that requires baking, I spent a lot more time on that versus things like a soup or a stew. Like there are some things that I truly believe it's very difficult to mess it up. Yeah. There's some things that are more forgiving. Yeah. They're more forgiving and it'll all blend and it'll be fine. Like it's very, very hard to mess up a lasagna. Yeah. Okay. So you mentioned BuzzFeed. Let's talk about that piece of it. Around 2021, BuzzFeed came calling and asked you to be on-camera talent for Tasty, which is one of their properties.

32:40So talk to me a little bit about what that calculus was in your head about deciding to work with them because you were growing quickly on your own. Why were you interested in joining forces?

32:52Toni Chapman:Yeah, they caught wind of my videos and they liked the style. And so they reached out to me. They hadn't worked with creators before. So this was going to be their first time. I look at my career and I'm like, I kind of always get lucky, you know, because this is at the beginning stages of them building this out. And so it's very impactful. I felt like there was more support, more resources. People hadn't seen creators on Tasty's platform before, other than the in-house talent that they had that was on YouTube. They hadn't had any fresh faces that were doing short form video, which was hot. So I was really excited about the opportunity.

33:30Toni Chapman:And Tasty had brought me on to do a series. It was a budget series where I was creating these meals with$20. And I would go to Trader Joe's. And I think the first video had like 15 million views. Good Lord. It was at the height of like Tasty's virality. Perfect moment. And I just started growing my own channel. There's this freshness to me because Tasty's brand has always been and will always be quirky. You know, they really lean into that. and I think I have some of that in me and I'm bubbly, but my brand was also very mass market. Like I was making things that people were going to, again, recreate at home.

34:12Toni Chapman:I made like this lobster roll and people are like, I'm actually gonna do this. I used hot dog buns instead of like actual Brio's, but I had 20 bucks, okay? What can you do? People really loved it. It was a really great time. I love Tasty's audience because they're fun. They like to give their opinions. That was the first time, too, that I received negative backlash because when people are following you and they love you, they don't leave bad comments. But if you're just coming up on someone's feed, they don't know who you are. I mean, I was getting roasted. Over what? I mean, people were saying all sorts of things.

34:51Toni Chapman:Like, who the heck would use a hot dog bun? This is a disgrace. People just were saying all sorts of things. But we were also leaning into it. There's a term for it. It's like innocent annoyance. It's a little playful. And like, you know, sometimes you say the wrong thing by mistake. I said tomato paste instead of tomato paste. And you just leave it. Don't fix it. It's just a light rage bait. Yeah, it's a light rage bait. And the Tasty audience, they loved it. And they catapulted me. I mean, it grew my channels. And it legitimized me and helped me with other things. You know, at the time, Tasty.

35:26Toni Chapman:they were doing some really great things. So again, I got in at the beginning. And so yeah, I transitioned away from Tasty. Recently, I worked with them for many years. And you know, they're a franchise that I love. I'm no longer working with them at this time. But it was a great learning experience working with creative entrepreneurs and learning how to work in teams and manage creative opinions and big transition. Yeah. Okay. So today, you have over 2 million followers on TikTok and over 2 million followers on Instagram, which is wild because people do not usually swim in both ponds like that.

36:05So that is phenomenal. You are also named one of TikTok's top culinary creators earlier this year by Vogue Business. Talk to me about how your content has evolved over the years and what new personal and business opportunities you've been able to unlock by growing such a loyal and fanatical community?

36:28Toni Chapman:Yeah, great question. I'm so thankful for it. I've definitely evolved my content over the years. In the early stages, I wasn't even in my content, my face, you know? And so I think at every stage, I was like, all right, what can we do? It's time to do more. So I started showing my face and that was a huge step because now you can connect to people, always been an educator. And so I leaned into really having the videos be more heavily food focused in the early stages of content creation. And it was blowing me up because people were really making the recipes and learning. But then there was a shift that happened about two years ago.

37:06Toni Chapman:And I do believe this is going to be the next big phase of content creation, where people are less interested in how, but more so how to apply. And so this is when hosting content became big and like people are really interested and I don't wanna just learn this, but like, how am I really gonna use this in real life? So I started doing more storytelling and that's been incredibly impactful. And I think that's what the algorithm really likes because it's highly shareable. And I think that's the key to growing a large audience on both platforms is to stay consistent. but to continue to grow and evolve and try new things.

37:42Toni Chapman:And when you see that there's a new something, you better get on it. So the part that I am perhaps most excited about is your book. Earlier this year, you posted a TikTok announcing your debut cookbook, Everything's Good, and revealed that one of your biggest dreams in life was to be a published author. Knowing all of the success that you've already achieved, why is this such a huge milestone for you? It kind of just marries my entire career together. And the book has made me use everything that I've ever done at every stage of my career at one time. And it's an amazing opportunity to blend it all together.

38:26Toni Chapman:So it allows me to really use all my skills and then beyond that, the things that I really love. It feels really right. I also think there's something really amazing about being able to tangibly hold your work in your hand. It's not just for consumption on a screen. It's real. It's a physical artifact of what you're doing. You know, food disappears, content disappears. But at the end of the day, like a book is something literal in your hand that lasts. And there's something really satisfying about that, I think. Absolutely. With everything going on in such a crazy world, I think people are really loving slowing down again.

39:07Toni Chapman:Books are a way to do that. When you cook from a cookbook, like it requires you to just be more present and intentional. It feels a little bit more romantic. You have to like slow down. So it's been nice to have, you know, something physical. It's a very long world win of a process. Cookbooks are a beast. Tell me about it. How long did it take to put everything together? How long did it take to shoot? What was this process like? How were you doing that while still having like a full career going on the day-to-day basis? Tell me everything. It's been two years. I did it relatively quickly. Usually authors give themselves two and a half to three from start to finish.

39:43Toni Chapman:So from this time that I signed my deal to pub date was about a 20-month runway, which is very tight. But, you know, me being incredibly ambitious, you know, I was like, let's do it. And I don't know if I'd do that again. You know, you have to write the recipes, test them, get them edited, shoot all of the photos for them. Did you batch all of the photos? Like, did you do like a week of shooting all of the photos or did you do it as you went through the process? We did it over the course of two and a half weeks in L.A. Two and a half weeks to shoot 100 recipes. And then we had to do another shoot for lifestyle and then pick up some that needed to be redone.

40:22Toni Chapman:Oh, goodness. It was intense. And I think part of it too was a huge part of the cookbook space is for recipes that are light, easy, fresh, because these are where people need the most inspiration. I think a lot of the times people have mom's recipe to eat something really cozy or if they want something cozy to order in. And so like cozy cookbooks are interesting because one of the things that people don't measure is some cozy dishes are harder to shoot. A ceviche, you know, you can shoot the ceviche in the cookbook and the salads. I mean, they look amazing. one shot, we're done. But stews are hard.

40:57Toni Chapman:Soups are hard. Breadsticks, you know, how do we judge the breadsticks up? How do we make that look? Wow. So I think that was a challenge for me. Like, how do I get this food to look really satiating? So that was very difficult for me. So as folks are listening to this and as they are buying your book, what are a couple of recipes that you would recommend from the book that they start with or recipes that you are particularly proud of? Wow, great question. So it's so funny. I saw an Amazon review and I smiled. They gave me a great review, but critiquing, but I actually looked at this as a compliment, said the book is just filled with a whole bunch of like multicultural cozy dishes and it doesn't have an exact specific emphasis on anything.

41:45Toni Chapman:It's just more inspired by the author's background and what she loves. And she was saying, or he was saying, as they were turning the pages at first, they were unsure, but then at the end, they were like, wow, there's just so many incredible recipes in here that are all over the place in a good way. But they kind of all come together because they're stunning, they're beautiful, they're cozy, and they're delicious. So a few that stand out to me, and these are gonna be very different recipes, but just to give you an idea of what everything's good is about, I named it that because I knew that it's everything.

42:17Toni Chapman:I wanted range. I mean, people want to niche you in. People want to niche you in. And I wanted range. And most cookbooks are niched down. So I think early on, my publisher, Clarkson Potter, shout out to them. They were like, what are we doing? But they went with it. You know, I was just like, this is what we're doing. And we've done really well. So my Coca-Cola braised short ribs, I recently made those for a dinner party to launch the book. And I had a chef make them. Everyone loved them. I mean, they were absolutely incredible. These happened by accident. I'm a Coca-Cola girl forever and always.

42:52Toni Chapman:And I'm working on this short rib recipe and I just poured in there. I don't know why I did that. I was just like over it. I had a really rough day. I drank a sip, poured the rest, let it simmer, added a couple of things. And I remember being like, whoa, these are good. And the sugar from the Coca-Cola, it deepens the color. It's a nice talking point. Everyone who's cool likes Coca-Cola. So it's great. All American. Yeah. People love them. And then I've spent the last few years in Miami, relocating back to New York, but living in Miami for three years, it changes you. You know, I got tanner, I got blonder, and then I'm Latin myself, but I had this desire to explore Latin foods more.

43:34Toni Chapman:So there's like a frozen mango margarita in my cookbook that I really love that I had at a place in Miami that I really enjoyed. And then we have fish or shrimp and mango ceviche. That's really nice. For desserts, I have the best key lime pie on this planet and I stand by it. I have a friend who's a baker. Her name is a cozy kitchen. Yeah. Adriana Adarme. And she helps me develop the recipe. We would be like on FaceTime or whatever and I'd show her, she'd be like, add more. All right, take one out, add this, do this. All right, put that. I respect her so much. She's been a mentor to me. And I truly believe it is the best key lime pie ever.

44:10Toni Chapman:Even if you don't like key lime pie, it's good. And there's just so many amazing other ones, holiday favorites. I truly believe I have the best turkey ever because it's fun to make and it has the cheesecloth method. And I don't know, people just like doing that. They like going to get it and cutting it. And it's like putting up a Christmas tree. Yeah. You know, I realized when I rolled this recipe, I was like, oh, it's not about the turkey. It's fun for people. It gives them something to do with their family, something to look forward to. So you have a lot of those kinds of recipes in the book that are, you know, recipes you can cook with your family and celebrate with.

44:45Oh, it's so exciting. Okay. So one of the things that we like to talk about on this podcast is mistakes because everyone makes them throughout the course of their career, but we don't always talk about them. We tend to sort of go from highlight reel to highlight reel. And that is helpful. But I think it's really helpful to hear about where things go wrong. So I'm hoping that you can tell me about a mistake that you've made at any point in your career and what you've learned from it.

45:11Toni Chapman:I think I have been ambitious to a fault. I am one of those people that goes to the wall. I want the best, the most expensive. I will invest paths beyond the point that it makes sense. I want the biggest out the gate. I'm spending the most. I've always been big on investing. So whenever I'm launching something or going into something in business, you know, let's get the best. Let's call the best people in the game. Let's do that. Let's invest. But I've realized that there is a learning curve. And it's almost like you can't have a Lamborghini as your first car because you're going to beat it up.

45:51Toni Chapman:And so I think just going too far, too early, investing too much, it's been a strength, but ultimately it's been a weakness. You have to know when to put the money up, when to invest, when you're ready, when you're not. And that's something that I'm still working on learning. And I've made a lot of mistakes in wanting to just, let's do this. And sometimes it's like, no, how about we sit and plan? How about we do this first? How about we hire, you know, maybe less premium so that we understand what it looks like to work with these people. We have an understanding of pain points within the relationship before we invest in the best of the best.

46:32Toni Chapman:Because we don't want to have those issues with the best of the best. That's been a reoccurring thing for me that I'm still working through. I hear you on that. I'll just say that. I hear you. Okay. So a lot of the folks who listen to this podcast are in their first lives. and they know they want to make a leap of some sort, they want to pivot, whether it's in the same industry and just tackling a different aspect of it or changing industries entirely. As someone who has pivoted in her career, what advice would you give someone who's standing there on the precipice thinking about making that next step, but just hasn't done it quite yet?

47:09Toni Chapman:Wow, great question. You know, I remember I had launched my food blog, Tony's recipes years ago. And just because you get a blog doesn't mean it can be monetized. This business was really important to me because it's passive income. You make money in your sleep. And it was something that would give me a sense of security and kind of like help alleviate the feeling of constantly having to hustle. It's earlier on in my career. And in order to get monetized, you have to hit a certain amount of views to your website. And it is very difficult to get people to click out the apps, nearly impossible. And the algorithm set it up for such.

47:49Toni Chapman:So even though I was getting 10 million views on a video, I couldn't hit the 50 ,000 page views at that time. And I was honestly just kind of frustrated. It was something that I wanted to do, but I was just like, I'm not gonna be able to really pivot into this because it's not really going the way that I want it. And so I called my dad and I said, Thanksgiving is coming, my biggest holiday. I wanted to earn by this time. It's not happening. I'm just going to move on to something else. I'll let bygones be bygones. I've invested time and money. Let's just move on. And I'll never forget, my dad said, you have to look at yourself in the mirror.

48:22Toni Chapman:Today is October 1st. And you have to tell yourself that no matter what, no matter what, by October 31st, this website will reach that level of monetization. Like no ifs, ands, or buts. You need to make a pact with yourself. and you need to make sure that you prioritize it above anything else. And you look yourself in your eye and you promise yourself you're going to do it. So I'm not in control. It's the algorithm, whatever. He says, I don't care. Get it done. And he hung up the phone. And I remember I got it done October 31st. And I just never negotiate with myself. I say, I'm going to do it.

48:59Toni Chapman:Let's just do it. Let's set the goal. Start off small. Start off wherever you are. If you're looking to pivot, let's say you want to quit your job. I always tell people the first step is to just have a website, legitimize it, get a business bank account. It tells yourself this is real. Make a social media page. Make a business card. Make an email. Do these things. And each little task that you cross off, it begins to feel real. And you promise yourself you're going to get it all done. And I promise you, you will. As someone who has been in business for a really long time, it's the only way. I don't think that there's ever been a goal that I haven't been able to reach eventually so long as I just never negotiate it with myself.

49:37Toni Chapman:And I look at myself every morning and I say, we're going to get this done as hard as it is. And we're here. We got it done as hard as it was. We're here on this wonderful podcast. And I'm so honored to be here. This conversation was just lovely and we got it done. Got it done. Well, almost one last question, which is also my favorite question, which is if you could go back in time and speak with your younger self and give your younger self some advice at any point in your career, what would you say? I would say to take care of yourself, you know, as somebody that loves business and being an entrepreneur is very time consuming and it requires you to give everything that you've got.

50:20Toni Chapman:You also have to prioritize yourself, your mental health, your physical health, the relationships with your family. You have to make sure that you're not letting those things slip through the cracks because it will catch up to you and it'll hit you at times where you can't afford for it to. So I would just say to take care of yourself. One day off won't kill you. The best part about being an entrepreneur is that there is freedom to a certain extent. So exercise that. If you let yourself be free. I remember one time one of my friends was like, wait, do you have to do this today? Like what's stopping you?

50:54Toni Chapman:There's no office. There's no boss. There's no teams. And I was like, no, no, I have to. Like, I have to. I have to post. It's 3 p.m. And they were like, but why? And I thought to myself, hmm, well, maybe I don't today. just to be able to take some time off and to enjoy the special moment with my friend. It was a friend's birthday. Taking care of yourself is the key to everything else. Your sharpest self, your best self, sleeping well, eating right, having hobbies, prioritizing your relationship, spending time with your family and your children. Never get too in the weeds where you can't see beyond the business because it just won't be sustainable.

51:32Toni, I love that. Thank you so much for your time and your insight and your candor. And I can't tell you how much I have appreciated this. Thank you so much. I know how busy you are. So thank you.

51:46Toni Chapman:Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for having me. You have an amazing platform and resource. I love what you're doing. Thank you. Thank you so much for allowing me a chance to reflect and share my story.

52:03That was Tony Chapman. For more inspiring interviews with women like Tony, head on over to secondlifepod.com where we have so many more for you to peruse. If you like today's show, please subscribe on Apple podcasts or Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. And don't forget to rate and review us. We love seeing you spread the word on social. And now you can tag us in your posts. We are at Second Life Pod on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook. We always want to know who you're interested in hearing from on the show. So send in your requests to hello at secondlifepod.com, or you can DM us on Instagram.

52:41I'm at Hillary Kerr. The show is at Second Life Pod. Our DMs are always open. I'm Hilary Kerr, and you've been listening to Second Life. This episode was produced by Hilary Kerr, Summer Hammeris, and Natalie Thurman. Our production assistant is Raven Yamamoto. Our audio engineers are at Treehouse Recording in Los Angeles, California, and our music is by Jonathan Leahy.

53:13you