Why Do Venezuelans Want This?

27:50They are involved in security. I actually did an investigation into this at Univision. They're involved in real estate. They're involved in the ballot box. They're involved in the oil. So every strategic sort of aspect of society they are involved with. So these are like looking forward. This is a cancer that has spread, Naima, throughout our entire society. So there's so many people that have had to, because this is a centrist government, right? And oil is controlled, right, by the government. So there's so many people that have had to work with the government, being cahoots with the government.

28:25And I'm not excusing them, but just to even like feed their families down there. So how do you clean a whole – like how do you drain that swamp? You know what I mean? You know, I have to say like I used to work in Libya and Libya now is even worse after the intervention there and the exit of Gaddafi. There are sometimes – there's chaotic situations where it takes that strong man to hold this thing in power. Right now you go to Libya, there's a slave trade. There's an arms trade. It has not been, you know, the centrality of the oil and how that country was consolidated worked better, sadly, in the aughts than it did right now.

29:00It might have worked even better had Gaddafi never been in power, but that isn't even a counterfactual we can consider, right? So do you fear that for Venezuela? Do you fear that this is just like generations of bad? My only hope, my only thing that I see difference is that it's like, as Mariana mentioned, the proximity to the U.S., how close is a strategic point. It's like they I think the U.S. benefits with having a stable government in Venezuela. And especially if they want to go in there and get all the oil, you know, they need to have. I mean, even the X and all those, they were saying like, well, we can't invest in a in a country that's not stable.

29:37So I don't think the U.S. wants an Afghanistan or a Libya kind of situation. Also, we have an organized opposition that won the election by a landslide last time. And we have a democratically elected leader that has not been able to be in power. Okay, so let's talk about this. Because right now in the country, there's a sensibility of what's really changed? Because as you're saying, it's the gang of four. The puppeteers are still in charge. Political prisoners are not being released. There's something like 100 out of 800. But it is important, Ayme, to say like where we are now versus where we were 10, 12 days ago.

30:13It's huge because they have shown themselves to be vulnerable. The U.S. is – I mean people were doubting whether Trump was going to act or not. People were claiming taco. And meanwhile, they were doing – they were practicing like the Fuerte Tuna, you know, entrance like multiple times. They've been the motto. Literally. So I think we're in a completely different situation where the puppeteers are still there, but they are, pardon my French, scared shitless and trying to see, you know, what chess pieces they can move in order to survive. Because at this point, they know that practically no other country is going to take them, that they're going to be charged for human rights abuses, that they're going to be charged for narco terrorism.

30:53I mean, I think we also need to put in perspective what Maduro is being charged for. His charges are worse than El Chapo Guzman. El Chapo Guzman was charged with running a cartel. Maduro's charged, along with Delcy and many other people down there, of turning a nation into a cartel. So just let's have the gravity of that sinking. There is a lot of like back and forth in American media about like, were there drugs on the boats? Were there not drugs on the boats? Is there fentanyl? Is there not fentanyl? There's no fentanyl. But there is no fentanyl, I think we can say factually. Correct, Mariana?

31:23There is no fentanyl. There was cocaine. There was cocaine. Fentanyl comes from China. Does it? Yes, exactly. So does that matter? These like distinctions without a difference to you, because the greater good is actually it infuriates me because where was the outrage over? eight million people that had to flee a thousand political prisoners down there americans that were detained down there you know kids going to bed hungry and a health insurance system that was in shambles like where was that where was the outrage democrats where was the outrage over what was happening down there so now you want to make a whole thing about about the fishermen who were clearly transporting drugs it's because they have it out for heads heads and i don't think that venezuela should be used as a pawn in that discussion honestly and when people are like oh they you know the u.s wow they really just want the oil look at what mariana just said this country is not functioning its people are are below the poverty line there's a refugee crisis where the hell's the oil i mean with the oil boom venezuela should be one of the richest countries in the world it is one of the poorest because of the mismanagement and the corruption so so what the fuck like i don't know like if you're telling me that like wow you know Americans are like, you really should be concerned.

32:39He's after your oil. It's like, yeah, no fucking shit. Maybe, maybe some of the oil money could go to repair the country. To Venezuela. That's the thing. The oil has been taken by the government, by China, by Russia, by Cuba. So like, the oil is not there. The oil is like, that's the thing. It's like, so if the US can come in and give some of that oil money to Venezuela, that would be awesome. To Francisco's point, one of the vessels that was just seized was linked to Iran. So it's not even the oil not benefiting us. It's like your oil, your oil is being used to commit human rights abuses elsewhere also.

33:14Well, now Donald Trump is saying it's always, it's American oil and they invested in it. It's American oil and they're going to get the 30 to 50 million. And you're saying it's an invoice that Venezuelans, it sounds like, are willing to pay. We welcome them coming in, Naima. We welcome them coming in and repairing this industry that really crumbled to the ground under their regime. So you did have a democratic election. You do have a democratically elected leader. Maria Corina Machado, someone I think you've interviewed, Mariana. Yes. And I do have to say that she unfortunately was not able to be democratically elected herself because she was prohibited from running after winning the primary down there.

33:48So she had to pretty much like have a deputy, Edmundo González Urrutia, and she is obviously his right hand. Right. So their party won and she is the leader of that party, but was not able to participate in the actual election. Also, imagine if she had been the democratically elected leader. I think there would even be more pressure on the Trump administration to more readily involve her in the transition. But we have to think about the regime made sure that she wouldn't be in a place where she could actually take over. Well, now, I mean, at the time we're taping this, it's Tuesday evening. On Thursday, President Trump is meant to meet with Machado.

34:25There has been this on-again, off-again, J-Lo, Ben Affleck love affair between them. You know, she dedicated the Nobel Prize to him. Then he tossed her aside. He was asked recently if she gives you the prize, and he's like, we'll see what happens. So what do you assess? Does she have a role in the future of Venezuela? I'm just going to say something quickly about, I don't know if Marianne can confirm, but I think the reason that they're not putting her is because she doesn't have the support of the army. The respect, they said. I think it would be very tough for her to be the leader. She doesn't have the support within, or the respect within the country.

35:01She's a very nice woman, but she doesn't have the respect to be like her. When they won last year, the army would have been like, all right, no, she won, but they didn't do nothing. So, I mean, I think that's why they're not, they can't go with her and put her in there. They have to work with these people that are right there. So, and I think that 100 % Francisco, but just to correct what he said, Naima, she does have the respect. It's the, she does have the trust. It's not correct what Francisco said, what Donald Trump said. Yeah, no, she does have the respect. She does have the trust. She gave us hopes when we were like most down in the dumps where nobody was even like thinking about Venezuela.

35:38We're talking like last year, this woman was apprehended and she doesn't have the control of the institutions, the oil or the military, because this has been a structure that has been in power controlled by the Cubans for 25 years. There's an incentive to exclude her, you're saying? I think that they have thought this out better than we thought initially with that Trump presser and said, if we give her power immediately, then, you know, we want this transition to stick. And in order to do that, we may have to negotiate with the devil for a little bit. I think that, and I'm going to give you some Venezuelan history here, all of us remember 2002.

36:17Nayima, in 2002, Chavez was actually deposed in a coup d 'etat by an opposition leader named Caramona Estanga. And in like 24 hours, they changed the constitution. They got the military people like out of command. They switched them to new ones. And the people that have been in power were like, whoa, whoa, whoa. If you're like kicking us out this way, we're actually going to bring Chavez back. And that resulted in like decades and decades of us having Chavez. So we also remember what it's like if these things are done too quickly and like the transition is not ensured. I do think that it is critical for the Trump administration and namely Marco Rubio to move toward this democratic transition, having these opposition figures, Edmundo, Maria Corina, be able to come back into the country, hold free and fair elections.

37:07And I think that when he expressed his three-phase plan for Venezuela, he did talk about that, which gave me great relief. And I will add, the relationship between Trump and Maria Corina is more like an IDM-due relationship because they actually haven't met. They have not met in person yet. That is going to happen for the first time this week. So they're not J.Lo and Ben Affleck. No, they are just sliding into each other's DMs. Exactly. So I think that this is a woman who's incredibly strategic. She knows how to speak Trump. And I think that he is going to greatly respect her when they finally do get to meet in person.

37:46And again, having Rubio in the picture gives me great relief and peace of mind. So I want to do two things here. I know that, Joanna, you have to run. So I want to ask you guys a question for all of you. And then I want to take a quick break with the audience. And we'll come back and we'll do some of what to look ahead to, what's coming up in the news. with Mariana, you and Francisco as you guys stay on. But I'm curious what it would take for each of you to go back. Joanna, you said earlier on, you can't just abandon Venezuela right now. People think that doesn't have anything to do with them.

38:19We have to participate in moving this country to a democratic sovereignty. Can you be part of that given your family's history? Do you want to be? You just had a baby. I would love to be part of that. The moment I gave birth, it was a complex set of emotions because a country that lives so deeply inside me, I wonder if my daughter will ever meet, will ever be able to visit. And that was a really confronting feeling because no matter how American I feel, the Venezuelan is deep in me. And I think I represent many Venezuelans who are itching to get back and rebuild the country that was taken away from them.

39:00and in order to get there what we need are rights before we talk about oil before we talk about this before we talk about anything rights leads to economic development rights leads to investment rights leads to property like rights are at the center of all of this so as soon as venezuelans get their rights back i am ready to hop on a plane and help i don't know build a comedy theater because that's what we need that's what they need they need that is what they actually probably need An improv theater. Joanna's going to crush it with that improv. We need to give it a name right now on this show.

39:34It's going to be a franchise UCB. What are you? Yeah. Or, you know what? How about like, um, solo DC, just say yes. Just say yes. We love it. Is there any red line for you, Joanna? Like something, if you saw it happening, you would think, okay, you know what? I'm going to take, because you seem like you're politically quite charged as an American in, you know, and opposed to what the, what the administration is doing at home. Is there any red line for you where you would say, whether you see it in Venezuela, whether you see it here with these ice raids or other things that you would say, you know what?

40:07I can't, I just can't contain these two thoughts in my head at the same time.

40:15You mean the two thoughts being like, I am glad about what's happening in Venezuela and I'm cautiously optimistic, but also this guy's not sane. I'm grateful to Donald Trump, but I don't support him at home. That can you, I mean, is there any part where you just move, so pulled in one part of the weight or seesaw in your head? You know, I'm there every day is the thing because every day there's a new news item that really pulls me. I mean, the issue in Minnesota happened only days after Maudo was captured and that destroyed me. I mean, it was so difficult to see and it's very scary to see and observe.

40:57I don't know if there's a red line because what we've been having in this conversation is sort of realizing that a binary thought, binary thoughts are really hurting Venezuelans and hurting Iranians, for example, as well, and hurting a lot of international issues. And I don't want to think in a binary because I think it oversimplifies very complex situations. Thank you so much, Joanna. We're going to let you go. We're going to keep the conversation going after this. So audience, don't leave us. Thank you so much, Juana. And we'll be back with Mariana, Atencio, and Francisco Ramos right after this break.

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42:01Numbers are numbers, people.

42:06Francisco, what about you? I mean, you left Venezuela in the early 90s. I think yesterday I dropped the news to you that you are not a core millennial, but maybe on the verge of being Gen X. I thought I was. How old are you, Francisco? What year were you born in? Oh, yeah, 81. I'm 44. I don't know, but he makes the cut. Isn't it people born in 1980? Yeah, I think he barely makes the cut. But also look at those Venezuelan jeans. He looks like he's like 25. I know. I feel like he could be selling me baby food, this guy. Okay, so Francisco, what would it take for you to move back in with your mother in Venezuela?

42:47Maybe you're not going to move in with your mother. No, no, no, no, no, not at this time. But no, I think, look, I don't, I mean, move back to Venezuela. Just even like the fact of just going to visit right now without being scared. I think that's what Joanna mentioned. I just haven't rights because I'm scared to just even go and get, you know, because if you get, I get stopped in the airport or whatever. And when I used to go back to Venezuela to visit, I was scared just to get robbed. I want to go back to those times where I was just, just getting, just me like, I'm scared to get, but not to get like in prison because I have something in my phone or whatever.

43:24You know what I mean? Light robbery, not heavy political prisoner. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. I'm from Karachi. I understand. Yeah. And do you have a desire, Francisco? I mean, you want to go there, not live with your mother, get robbed a little bit. But do you have a desire to be part of what's new politically? Or is that just something that's not in your nature or desire set? No, I mean, I think it's not just not politically. It's just what would make Venezuela a better country or a country that we were. I think anything that I could do to help that, I would love that. I would love that. Yesterday, I just want to leave the shot.

44:03I saw this movie called The Shadow of the Sun. La Sombra del Sol by this Venezuelan director, Miguel Ángel Ferrer. And it's a very beautiful movie. It takes place in Acarigua, which is a big town in Venezuela. But it just shows a lot of the Venezuelan people and what people do, the miracles that people do with nothing in Venezuela. And that was what really kind of resonated with me because that would be my thing. Go back and give those people more tools because they're already doing so many things with nothing. Imagine all the things and all the talent that's over there that's not being used because there's no water, there's no electricity or nothing.

44:49So for me, whether it's political or not political or anything like that, if I can make Venezuela and that hope that Venezuela is like, hey, I can do this. I can become a stand-up. I can become a reporter. I can become something. That would be my thing. I'm going to watch that film. It sounds beautiful. Mariana, what about you? What would it take for you to return to the country? Do you have that desire and pull right now? I do. I haven't been back in about three years. I used to go back, by the way, every year for reporting. I used to do on-the-ground reporting. I was there for Univision, for ABC News, for NBC.

45:30After my dad passed away, it's been hard because it felt he was such a believer in Venezuela. Like he would like when all of us, our morale was really down. He would be the one that was like, we need to continue to protest kids. Like he was just like, this time it's different. We're like, no, dad, it's the same. um when he passed away I felt that a piece a piece of me died there with him and that's really tough to reconcile with um but I really have to hand it to my mom you know she has been so resilient she has like really built a life for herself uh there 90 percent Naima 90 percent of my friends from school are there raising their kids, like doing the thing, working, whether it's in the food industry, in like their entrepreneurs.

46:22I mentioned some of my team members are down there. So as Francisco said, like going down there and helping them and inspiring them and being able to do like cross-border journalism in the States and there is something that I'm 100 % called for. And I don't take the opportunity that this country gave me lightly. You know, it took me 15 years to officially become an American. And I treasure that so much. Like I hold that passport like this gem. But I also have my Venezuelan passport. And that's a privilege as well. So I think in this time, what we need more of are these kinds of conversations. and people like Francisco, Joanna, myself, that can be bridges between both countries.

47:12And if I can contribute to that, I would welcome the opportunity. Do you worry that if the Trump administration makes a deal with the devil, as you described it, and it's going to be one of the gang of puppeteers that stays in place, will there be consequences to your reporting? I mean, there are literally journalists being taken in right now, right? Oh, 100%. I've been told by my loved ones to not go there. Thankfully, I've always worked internationally. And, you know, it's awful to say, but they've really gone after the journalists that have been working domestically down there for years. So, yeah, I would be afraid of that because I've been so vocal outside of the country.

47:57So I want to do a lightning round of some of the things that are ahead right now. So maybe, Mariana, you can tell us in terms of the legal case that we're looking at. First of all, who is Celia Flores? Is she actually like really – is she facing the same – people are having these debates about is she just the wife or is she – No, she's facing the same – she has some of the same charges. She was – he was the puppet. Four of the puppeteers are down there. The other puppeteer is her. She is his mastermind. She was heavily involved with Chavez long before Nicolás Maduro even came to the picture. And I really believe that Chavez anointed Maduro also because of the weight that Celia has in this partnership and in this relationship.

48:43So she's as responsible as he is. Some of the things to be looking out for, the second court appearance is set for March 17th. So we're going to be looking out for that. And, you know, we already know that he has chosen his lawyers and lawyered up well. The guy who represented Assange is representing him. So, you know, the eyes of the world are going to be in that courtroom on March 17th. Meanwhile, down there, we're going to be looking at whether Diosdado de Rodriguez, Espadrino Lopez, you know, how all of these different factions behave. And then super, super important, besides the Maria Corina Mattel meeting with Trump, is the release of the political prisoners, Najima.

49:25So one of the conditions that Trump and Rubio placed on the regime is not only the oil, but you have to release the political prisoners. We're talking about roughly 1 ,000 people. As of today, Tuesday evening when we are recording this, around 5 % have been released, and they've been released under horrible, horrible conditions. They can't speak to the media. They can't be photographed. they still need to like uh be surveyed um so these are kind of conditional releases um and there's a lot of fear on the ground about like why aren't they releasing the rest of them like where are they you know well we probably know why exactly exactly exactly but i mean these these individuals these 800 plus individuals that are political prisoners that remain are are people that would be important in the next venezuela that you guys are imagining the democratic sovereign and kind of organically lab Venezuela.

50:18And it's going to be important in terms of, you know, I don't know that these wounds will ever heal, but it's going to be important in terms of how do we heal from this horrific 25-year chapter. Okay. That's very heavy. On a lighter side, Francisco, it is reported that Maduro is in the same jail as Diddy and Luigi of UnitedHealthcare shooting fame. I'm curious I want to do a version of Fuck Marry Kill Jail Edition I'm going to call it like you can keep one of them and you can have life in prison for one punish one severely and pardon one so Luigi Diddy and Nicky Nicky Maduro damn all right Francisco I'll pardon Luigi is it because he's hot?

51:09yes it's because he's hot yes yes no because he also he's younger he has more to live and then what was the other ones? Diddy, Diddy, Diddy Diddy Diddy Punish severely Punish severely or life in prison Punish severely Oh wow I think I want just because of the whole Venezuelan thing Maduro be life in prison and then punish Diddy severely because you know at least hey at least if they're doing the same thing I think P. Diddy also asked Maduro if he's got any oil in him too when they got to the any baby oil 30 to 50 million barrels of baby oil. Mariana? I'm going to put the fifth on that one. I do want them joined by the Osao Padrino and the Rodriguez Brothers as cellmates.

51:56That would be like my dream cast of the new reality show, right? From the Bronx Metropolitan Center. From the Brooklyn Metropolitan Center, rather. Okay, one more thing. In terms of looking ahead, there's a lot of talk about what this means for electoral politics in the United States. There's rumors that Marco Rubio will be running for president in the year 2028. The Latino vote has been extremely important in the United States and something that Republicans and Democrats have fought over. Do you feel like this is relevant to that vote, particularly in the younger generations? And what does the reporting say?

52:35Mariana? So the reporting says, per the New York Times, who has not done a very good job covering Venezuela, they still keep calling Mauro president. And they did kind of like this glam photo shoot with Delcy calling her a moderate. So I really have to call them out. So per the New York Times, it's not going to make that big a difference because Venezuelans only make like I think we make like three percent of the Latino vote. And we're heavily we're heavily concentrated here in Florida, as well as in Texas. The majority of Latino vote is made up of Mexican-Americans. I, as someone who is not only a Latino voter, but has been I've been covering these voters for 15 years, especially at Univision, which is our bread and butter.

53:19And we cover them in Spanish coast to coast. the solidarity from other Latinos around like what we have lived and what Maduro represented, because all of us like remember either from us or our parents, like these, these tyrants that have taken over our countries for so long. I walk here in Miami, I walk into the gym, Mexican Americans are like, thank you. Oh my God. Thank God he's out. No, no, no. Seriously. Seriously, seriously. I will finish by saying this, though. I am such a voter. Like, I am a registered independent. I will not say who I voted for last elections, but this will weigh heavily on how I vote in the midterms and in the presidential election.

54:03Like, heavily, capital H, heavily. And I now understand Cubans and their long voting history in terms of like why they vote around geopolitics. And I wouldn't be surprised if this really impacts the Latino vote. Francisco, what is the first building that will be named after Donald Trump in Venezuela? Is he going to rebrand? Is it going to be the presidential palace? Is it going to be the Mar-a-Lago? I think it's going to be La Casona. La Casona. Ay, si, La Casona. It's going to be La Casona because it's the White House over there. It's going to be La Casona Trumpa. I don't know, like something like, but yeah, I think that's going to be the first one.

54:40Okay. We're going to, and he's going to make remodels about it too. He's going to. We end every episode of Smart Girl Dumb Questions asking our guests, like one thing that they are dumb about that they've been embarrassed to ask out loud. And before she took off, I asked Joanna as well, what does she not know? And of course she said. Oh my God. I am so dumb at so many different things. Yeah. Here's the thing. It's not really a question. It's just, I'm going to be honest. I don't understand credit scores. I don't understand what they mean. I don't understand how it goes up, how it goes down. I get emails saying that it went up.

55:09I'm like, I literally just did nothing. How did it go up? I think it's a government conspiracy. I don't know what's going on here. And I feel dumb as fuck. What is your credit score? Girl, I don't know. I think it's bad. I think it's bad. It's two. Okay. It's two. Francisco, what is this something that you don't know? What's the question you have that we could help answer for you? I also don't know a lot of things but I think even the stuff that we're talking about I still don't understand the whole which millennial, Gen Z, Gen X all that stuff people ask me and I'm like I don't know, I can give you my age and then you can figure it out I'm always confused of which one makes who You can pick a side I think you're Gen Z with a little Gen X that's what I'm feeling through the screen Mariana I'm done with many things one of which is actually like is I can't find my way around a kitchen so I if I am ever your dinner guest I will be like can I put the cellophane in the microwave like I am I will make yeah I'm so glad I didn't house an actual dinner party thank you Mariana I'm good at pouring the wine making margaritas and just keep me in the clean cleanup crew perfect and where can people We'll find you, Mariana.

56:28So at Mariana Atencio with the double A. Yeah, Instagram. And her great new sub stack where you can read several pieces. Yes, thank you for the shout out, Nayima. That's where I'm writing longer thought pieces with context that can't really fit on a TikTok, but also leadership and trust. That's what I keynote about in conferences around the world, some of which I've been on stage for with the amazing Nayima. So as I help folks like navigate geopolitics and disruption like we did in this conversation, I also help do that with companies. And if you're interested, please hit me up. Francisco, how can people find you?

57:10They can find me on, you know, social media, Instagram, framoscomedy. And that's all my tech talk and all that stuff. You can also go Google Francisco Ramos comedy. And also, I mean, a movie that's out right now produced by Kevin Smith. It's called The Unexpected and you can stream it on Apple TV and Amazon Prime, so check it out. And we asked Joanna where you can find her as well and this is what Joanna said. Yes, no, please follow me on Instagram, JoHaus, J-O-H-A-U-S. And honestly, if you look for Joanna and Venezuela on Google, I pop up because there's not a lot of Joannas from Venezuela, I guess.

57:45Fun fact, I don't know. And check out Phineas and Ferb. I write on it. That's a little fun fact as well. Yeah, and your new Venezuelan improv theater that you check out the website that you'll be building? Oh, yeah. I'm already building the website. Solo y si. Solo y si. Thank you guys so much for being here. You are really the best. I appreciate all the nuance you bring to it and just how great you are. Thank you so much, Mariana. Thank you, Francisco. Thank you, Joanna. And you can follow their content. We'll have all the links below. Thanks, guys. Thank you, Naima.

58:15I'm so grateful that Mariana and Francisco and Joanna made the time to sit with me today and explain this to me because I really came in with this dumb question of why would anyone want a foreigner running their country? Why would you ever want a foreign incursion of your state? And, you know, I grew up a strong believer in state sovereignty and kind of an anti-interventionist. I grew up in other countries, so I had that perspective of not wanting kind of a foreign point of view imposed. And then my experience was kind of cemented with having lived in the Middle East in the late 2000s and seeing the fallout of the American intervention there.

58:48So I'm leaving this conversation a lot smarter, a lot more empathetic, and having been able to ask a lot of the questions that were top of my mind, and I hope top of mind for many of you. And I want to know what you thought of that conversation. Did the nuance challenge your perspective? More than anything, I appreciated that, the ability to kind of wrestle with and untangle the complicated experience of being a Venezuelan and an American in this moment of coming with a particular history, a particular perspective and having to explain that in a world where you're not fully understood, perhaps either in Venezuela or in the United States.

59:25I thought, you know, Joanna and Mariana and Francisco did a great job of just explaining that. Anyways, I hope you enjoyed this conversation. I want to hear what you think. You can drop me a comment wherever you're listening to or watching this show. I do read and reply to them. You can drop me an email at naima raza101 at gmail.com or you can call me at 1-855-MY-DUMB-Q. I won't actually pick up, but it's a voicemail. You can leave a message and I will listen to them. Oh, and also let me know what you think of this format. I'm thinking of doing it more, bringing in friends from different countries, different world experiences to talk about big international events of the day.

59:59That's it for today's episode of Smart Girl Dumb Questions. Today's episode was produced with Dana Balut and Dusta Wondrad. It was edited by Darlena Chiem and mixed by Johnny Simon. Our theme music is by David Kahn and I'm your host, Naima Raza, who is definitely not dating MBS. See you next week on Smart Girl Dumb Questions.

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