Clipse - The Birds Don't Sing

0:00Pusha T:You're listening to Song Exploder, where musicians take apart their songs and piece by piece tell the story of how they were made. I'm Rishikesh Hirwe. This episode of Song Exploder is brought to you by Booking.com. My wife and I have been thinking about visiting some of our friends in Philadelphia this summer. And so while we've been daydreaming, I've been looking on Booking.com to check out places where we might stay in Philly. I put in our dates and there are over 100 options listed. So I'm going to start narrowing things down. I'm going to choose places that have an eight or higher rating and a king bed available.

0:38Pusha T:And then I'm going to focus on hotels in one of my favorite neighborhoods, the Rittenhouse Square neighborhood. And look, there's a hotel here with a 9.0 rating. And there's a note on the site that says couples in particular like this hotel. They rated it a 9.5 for a two-person trip. All right, so look at that. That sounds pretty awesome. You can find exactly what you're booking for. Booking.com, booking.ya. Book today on the site or in the app. This episode is sponsored by the new video game Mixtape. It's sort of like if the movie Dazed and Confused were a video game. It's about high school and adventure and nostalgia.

1:19Pusha T:and if you're the kind of person who cares about the power of an amazing mixtape, then this game is probably for you. The soundtrack features Smashing Pumpkins, Iggy Pop, Suzy and the Banshees, Joy Division, The Cure, and a lot more. Mixtape comes out May 7th on console and PC. Check it out at mixtape.game. Clips was formed in 1994 by two brothers, Gene Thornton Jr., a.k.a. Malice, and his younger brother, Terrence Thornton, aka Pusha T. From the beginning, they've worked with producer Pharrell Williams, originally as part of the acclaimed production duo, The Neptunes. But then there was a 16-year gap between the third Clips album, which came out in 2009, and their most recent album, Let God Sort Him Out, which came out in July 2025.

2:09Pusha T:This November, they were nominated for five Grammys, including Album of the Year. They were also nominated for Best Rap Song for The Birds Don't Sing. It's a song that they made after the death of both of their parents in the span of just a few months. For this episode, I asked Pusha T, Malice, and Pharrell about the making of that song, which also features contributions from John Legend and Stevie Wonder.

2:47Malice:Birds don't sing, they screech and bling. Oh, they screech and bling.

2:57Malice:This is Pusha T. This is Malice, one half of Clips.

3:02Pusha T:The events in this song start in November 2021. I was wondering, what was going on in your life around that time? And Pusha, maybe I'll ask you to answer that first.

3:12Malice:I was actually traveling a lot. I was making music in different states, different settings. I was always leaving town. Me and my mom had got into an argument centered around her driving herself to dialysis and not calling my brother. So that was an issue for me. You know, like, why are you driving? Like, you don't even have to drive. Jean would go to her house in the morning Before she could even get to her car He would be outside waiting for her And be like get in the car I will drive you to dialysis My mom real you know tough lady Tough Like if you argue with her it's like She's getting the last words I think she hung up on me When I was coming back home I said Man I'm gonna go over here and act like nothing ever happened So, of course I did Hey, what's up?

4:12Malice:You look good today What's going on? You know, we talking or whatever I told her my plans, which were to go to Turks for Thanksgiving And Texas the next day She questioned me about going to Turks Are you sure you want to go to Turks? But before I left, she said to me Hey, I ain't gonna drive no more okay and I was like okay you know I just brushed it off and then she said but you know I can drive right and I said yeah I know and um I left go pack you know get myself together you know leave airport and um yeah I went to her house and it was about 5 30 in the morning I was picking her up as normal for dialysis My sister had called me And she said, you know, she's been trying to call Ma And that she didn't get an answer And I was like, well, I'm here now, the door's open I had just pulled up And I went in there and I just discovered her just laying there When I got to the airport, my wife called me and told me that my brother had found my mom.

5:39Malice:I was on my way back home immediately, of course. Four months later, one of my dad's best friends gave me a call, and he told me that my dad didn't show up for church. When I went over there to check on my dad, I saw that his car was there. You know, I knocked on the door. I just didn't get a response. It led me to believe that something, you know, was wrong. I called to have a welfare check done. And the paramedics, when they went inside, it looked to be a new rookie that was with them. And when he came outside, I noticed that he quickly glanced at me but couldn't look at me. and I knew at that point, before I actually laid eyes on my dad, I knew that he was no longer with us.

6:41Malice:When I went in his place, he was laying there very much like how my mom was laying there. It was just very surreal to revisit that scenario back to back like that. Yeah.

6:57Pusha T:Your parents lived in Virginia Beach and I know that's where you grew up and that's where Pharrell grew up. Did he know your parents? Absolutely.

7:06Malice:Pharrell, I mean, we know each other's parents and neighbors and yeah, for sure. I'll never forget. Like I was at my house, like sort of pacing around in the yard. I just understood that we got to do a song. It was the right thing to do. We got to do this. It came to him and he was like, man, I got to go in the studio tomorrow because I feel like I got this. Like, I feel like I got the song. He hears it in his head before anything.

7:39Malice:I was in Paris where we had been recording the majority of the album. I just remember he played the beat.

8:01Malice:you know and just telling me like this is how it's supposed to be like this is the openness and this is the sound bed to get everything you want to get off your chest that was his pitch to me for the verses because when you have beats like that every line has to hit every line had to mean something the beat was what we call a talker where you can get your diction on and say the things that touch people and make them feel where you're coming from. I couldn't dive into it though. I needed a minute. I did feel like we have to do this, but I just wasn't ready. I had to prepare myself for that dive in, honestly.

8:47Malice:Lost in emotion, mama's youngest, trying to navigate life without my compass. Some experience death and feel numbness, But not me, I felt it all and couldn't function Immediately it was about tapping into the emotion Just the emotion of even having to write it I wanted to speak to that from line one You know, you need to understand that I'm lost while I'm trying to write this I'm trying to figure this out, y 'all And I wanted to put in perspective where I am in the family tree you know, just imagine what the youngest, the mama's boy of the bunch, how tough this has to be. Seeing you that day, telling you my plans, but I was leaving you that day.

9:36Malice:It was in God's hands. Yeah, was it Elon's waiting to get with me on my way to Texas. That's when Virginia hit me. to give a little bit of backstory. That day, I was meeting Kanye at Elon Musk's house to record, to be honest. So I was actually on a trip to Texas when I found out, and my wife's name is Virginia.

9:59Pusha T:When you have a moment like that, lyrically, where you're in the middle of this emotional story, but you still manage to juxtapose Texas, the place, and Virginia, the place, with Virginia, your wife's name, is that something that comes to you spontaneously or is it something that you try and work towards?

10:18Malice:No. I feel like you're trying to get our original recipe on how we do this thing here.

10:25Pusha T:I am, exactly.

10:27Malice:This song was definitely more on the passionate side, but there are just those magical times that come together where it just ended up being wordplay when it's really just true.

10:52Pusha T:Could you tell me about that lyric? Two things that break my heart is what November's do.

10:56Malice:Genius. For my son not to know who his grandmother was and how she was, that is very painful. to me because she was a nurturing, spoiling type of lady and would be for him. I think that like is a very tough thing for me in dealing with, you know, her loss.

11:25Pusha T:Gene, you said genius when I asked about that line from Pusha T. Do you two feel like you are each other's first fans?

11:34Malice:Oh, for sure. For me, for me, absolutely. I mean, we had a session. I had to take him outside and just tell him what I thought. And I was like, yo, you know, you're the best. You are the best. That's how I see it. You got to understand that, you know, for me, the art of rap, I've never witnessed this in close proximity until seeing my brother first being a writer, understanding the art of it, the actual sitting down pen to pad, notebook. So there's a tutorial in that, in just the beginning of it for me. And now 16 years later from our last album, seeing how people gravitate to his intellect and perspective.

12:25Malice:Man, this has been going on from seventh grade for him, 12, 13 years old for him. So, of course. How does this first end? T follows you, which is my dad. Now, mind you, Diddy calls you. Gene finds you. Was that your vision? Precision. While I'm reminiscing, It all hits different, ma, listen. That was basically the walk down of everything that happened. When Gene tells you he pulled up at my mom's house, my sister called him. He was already in front of the house. He walks in, the door was open. Was this how she played it, wanted it, and how it was just easy? Like it was just, yeah, she just made it clean, man, but that's my mom.

13:15Malice:I don't know. It just made me question, like I said, the whole verse as I'm writing it, my mind is just thinking in hindsight. Just wanted to speak to the idea of, man, did you map this out like this? My conversation with Clips continues after this.

13:37Pusha T:Song Exploder is sponsored by DistroKid. If you're an independent artist, DistroKid is a great way to get your music distributed. You get unlimited uploads and you get to keep 100 % of your royalties and earnings. There are more than a million artists, including me, who have used DistroKid to get their music into all the major streaming services, Spotify, Apple Music, TikTok, everywhere. The DistroKid app is now available on iOS and Android. Go to the app or Play Store to download it now. And for 10 % off your first year's membership, go to distrokid.com slash VIP slash Song Exploder. This episode of Song Exploder is brought to you by Shopify.

14:15Pusha T:Shopify is the e-commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10 % of all e-commerce in the US, from household names like Heinz and Allbirds to brands just getting started. I just sold some of my pottery for the first time, which was very exciting. And if I ever get to the point where I can do that seriously, then I know I'm going to be setting up shop with Shopify. They accelerate your efficiency, whether you're uploading new products or trying to improve existing ones. You can get the word out about your business like you have a marketing team behind you, and you can create email and social media campaigns so you can find your customers.

14:46Pusha T:Plus, you can handle all the stuff like inventory and payments and analytics. So start your business today with the industry's best business partner, Shopify, and start seeing new sales. Sign up for your$1 per month trial today at shopify.com slash songexploder. Go to shopify.com slash songexploder. Again, shopify.com slash songexploder. This episode is made possible by Quince. And if you've been listening to the podcast, you've probably heard me talk about how much I love the elevated casual pieces that I've gotten from Quince, like cashmere sweaters and my organic cotton chore jacket. But the other day, I realized I really wanted a shirt for just lounging around the house in.

15:28Pusha T:Something cozy, but not too warm since summer setting in. So I ordered a sweatshirt called the Super Soft Fleece Crew, and I never want to take it off. The name is completely accurate. it is super soft, it feels amazing. And everything at Quince is priced 50 to 80 % less than similar brands. They work directly with ethical factories, so you're paying for quality and not markup. Elevate your summer wardrobe by going to quince.com slash song exploder for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. It's now available in Canada too. That's q-u-i-n-c-e dot com slash

16:15Malice:Pusha finished his verse before I did. And when I first heard his verse, it just cut really, really deep. I knew that I had a job on my hands. And then once I had some time to just enjoy the verse and lament over the verse, mourn over the verse, then and only then could I dig in and do my thing on it. Your car was in the driveway I knew you were home By the third knock A chill ran through my bones The way you miss mama I guess I should have known Chivalry ain't dead You ain't let her go alone And that is who my dad was Chivalrous You know what I'm saying? Stand up when a woman comes into the room Combing through your dresser drawer Where do I begin?

17:06Malice:Posting noted Bible quotes Were you preparing then? Everywhere Scriptures everywhere. Like, I don't know how many Bibles he had in his house, but he was the deacon at his church. You know, even in his car, like, you pull the visor down and the scripture falls out of it. You know what I'm saying? And that was our conversation every morning, coffee, and just talking about the goodness of God. That's really how we bonded. I can hear your voice now. I can feel your presence. Asking should I rap again You gave me your blessing The way you spelled it out There's an L in every lesson Boy, you owe it to the world Let your mess become your message So I asked him the week before he passed What did he think about me returning to rap?

17:57Malice:And he said, I think you've been too hard on yourself, son Just like that I really stand by every decision I made With my hiatus But to hear him say that, you know, it just opened my eyes.

18:17Malice:Pharrell has said he didn't want to sing the hook. He didn't feel like he was strong enough, a singer, to do the hook. He sang it a couple different ways and ended up saying, man, I'm not nailing this chorus properly. But this is how I hear it. and when we get the right person to nail it, it's going to be everything it needs to be. And then he was like, hey, man, you know who'll do this, like who got it. They're going to execute. And I was like, who? He was like, John Legend. And I was like, man. The birds don't sing. The birds don't sing. They're screeching pain. He understood the mission. Yeah, he definitely understood the mission.

19:05Malice:I could tell he understood what the song meant to us. You know, you could hear it in the vocal.

19:21Pusha T:Pharrell, Pusha and Malice told me that you were the one who came up with the lyrics for the hook. And I was wondering, how did those words end up being the lyrics for the song? It's a quote from Werner Herzog, right? Yeah. The director? It was so striking to me.

19:35Malice:It was from this movie. He was like in a jungle somewhere. And something went terribly wrong with his production.

19:43Pusha T:He was just so mad. He was kind of like cursing everything.

19:46Malice:Of course there's a lot of misery. But it is the same misery that is all around us. The trees here are in misery. And the birds are in misery. I don't think they sing. They just screech in pain. And I was like, that's crazy. The audacity to say that you're sad, so certainly everything must be sad, too. And so when we got ready to do the song, I knew that was the title.