Sam Fender - People Watching

0:00You're listening to Song Exploder, where musicians take apart their songs and piece by piece tell the story of how they were made. I'm Rishikesh Hirway.

0:15Sam Fender is a singer and songwriter from the town of North Shields in England. He won the Brit Award for Best Rock and Alternative Act twice. His most recent album is called People Watching, and just like his first two albums, it went to number one on the UK album chart. To help produce the album, Sam enlisted Adam Grandesil, the singer and frontman of the Grammy-winning band The War on Drugs. For this episode, I talked to Sam and his bandmate Joe Atkinson about the title track from People Watching and the long journey that it took to get made, from Sam's Kitchen to the Hollywood Hills to Abbey Road.

1:00But he's done it's on the street tonight Oh, I can't stop running I see the whole town fire Happy for watching me back home Happy for watching me back home

1:19Could I just ask you each to introduce yourselves? Yeah, I'm Sam Fender. I'm Joe Atkinson. I play keyboards for Sam and help me in the studio with the production and stuff like that. Yes. And we've known each other for ages. Yeah. When did you first meet? Probably 14. Yeah. We used to be in rival bands. When you were 14 years old? Yeah. If there was ever like a local band competition, it would always be like us two pitted against each other. Because where we live, North Shields, it's like, I love it. It's the best town in the world, but it's not connected to the music industry or anything. You know, it's a fishing town.

1:54Back in those days, was your relationship mainly about playing music together or did you hang out otherwise as well? I think with us, it's like we all grew up together, you know? Yeah. And like, we are family, really. Like, Joe's just like a brother to me. So what was happening in your life around the time when the first ideas for people watching started coming to you? I was back home and somebody who was very, very close to me, she's called Annie Orwin. She was an actor and she was like my surrogate mother. She got sick and she was sick for quite a long time. and how did you first meet Annie?

2:29so when I was a kid my grandmother was like he's hyper and we should put him in something that he can express himself in and do some so she put me in this local community centre acting class when I was like 13 and that was like my grandma would pay for that and I think it was only like a fiver and some kids actually didn't even pay like she was like a community hero Annie and I had quite a low self-esteem when I first met her I was getting bullied in school and I didn't really have a lot of confidence and she gave us pretty much I think all of the confidence that I have so I did like loads of little bits of acting and stuff when I was a kid like just sort of community theater stuff but it made us be able to go on stage and do what we do you know and you know there was loads of plans like we had a plan like when I was a kid there was a we're planning to move down to London and she was like you know we can try out your music and your acting down there she was always really supportive and she was the first person I think in my life that ever made me believe that this was like a viable thing to do as a career you know she was always like you're a star kid so she meant a lot to us you know she became like one of my best friends and even once the acting stuff stopped I was like still you know really good friends with her in my 20s and I used to go around to hers and she had periods where she was a lot better and in periods where like our cancer was under control and you know we used to just drink a bottle of wine and bitch to be honest like most of the time she's always good you never mentioned me in any of these awards it's like you get an award and you don't mention my name at all and i used to be like well i'm sorry like she's like i should be the first person you think of whenever you get an award for something and i was like oh jesus i'm sorry you know was she joking or was she was serious well she was joking but she was there was definitely an element of her.

4:27She was like, no, she was serious about it. And then, not last year, but the year beforehand, I basically got a call off my other good friend, Joe, who was also like one of her protégés. And he was like, you know, I think this is going to happen. It was really bizarre because I went to see her and the whole plan was I was going to get her out of the care home. And she was seemed in fine spirits. And I think some doctor came in and basically was really negative and she just started deteriorating really quickly so she said you know she didn't want to be alone so I was like well we'll I'll stay and so did Jo and and so did our wonderful nieces we just slept on the chair next door you know for like five days in and out trying to do shifts and we'll go home for a couple of hours to try and get some sleep and it was really really like grueling but like beautiful thing like it was it was an honour to be able to be there with her at the very end you know yeah you know she died in my arms you know like I I held her hand and whoa I just you know it is I haven't actually spoke about it like

5:43yeah and it was like but it was it was beautiful in the end.

6:07So I had this piano chord progression. And I've got this little piano which I got from like a school. And we just put a load of pen tacks into the keys which make it sound like metallic. The hammers are obviously metal hitting metal. Really percussive sound. Really percussive, really bright. Kind of like an old honky tonk piano. And I've got that in my kitchen. And I was like, what's this song about? It's definitely about something. And then Annie died. And I was like going through all of that. And then it was like, oh, it's Annie's song.

6:43I was doing a demo on my phone, my garage band. and I don't use a microphone or anything. I just, I don't have it plugged into any gear because I'm like, I'm like an idiot when it comes to tech. So I'll just go like, and loop it like a bajillion bars. I'll record a piano for two bars and then just copy and paste that along.

7:11And then I'll find a bass.

7:18What I tend to do is find a loop so that I can listen to it and then eventually the lyrics come and the melody forms around it.

7:30When I walked back from the care home back to my house, I was people watching, you know, like that was my sort of escapism, was just watching people pass by and seeing what was going on in their lives. and I was obviously thinking a lot about life and death at the time and how such a big character was about to leave this plane of existence and how kind of, you know, everything just keeps moving, the world keeps turning and everybody's still living their lives and going through their struggles. And, you know, and I think at the time I was also thinking about Britain being, you know, the cost of living crisis was a lot in the news at the time and, you know, there was an element of guilt that I had because we're doing well and a lot of the people that we know back home are struggling to even feed their kids.

8:15So, you know, all of that was kind of swimming in the atmosphere.

8:30I'm not.

8:38The world, world, dreamin' love Back of the gasworks, screamin' a song Just the beauty of youth would quell my aching heart Oh, I feel so dark Remember me

8:56Oh, my heart I feel so dark

9:10Joe, do you remember the first time you heard this iPhone demo? Yeah, we went into the studio, Sleeper Sounds, and Sam was playing it to us, and we were just like, wow. Me and Dean and Drew was there as well, and we were like, wow, this is awesome. Sam, when you played the demo for them, did the sort of grief and the feelings that you were feeling about Annie's passing, did they still feel fresh at the time? Yeah, it was mega fresh, because it was only in November, you know. aside from annie as well like there'd been a lot of death yeah in all of our lives yeah so i think the band connected to it because we'd all kind of lost people and friends and it was i think that's the only way we know how to sort of deal with these things and process these things as an artist like that's how you deal with these things joe did you know how much annie meant to sam yeah but Unfortunately, I'd never met Annie in my life, but Sam would always fondly talk about her.

10:05Even when we were kids, I remember him being like, I'm going to do my acting thing. I want to see Annie and stuff. So obviously, it did strike a chord because I knew how close they were. And why Sleeper Sounds? Why were you working there? It's a decent space to just write things and get things moving. You just sat there doing it and it just comes together really quickly. And I like to work fast because I feel like a lot of the time with a song you've got to strike while the iron's hot because if you don't you lose that energy and that excitement for the song. There's nothing better than when you're like it's like you're chasing a song I feel like you're always chasing them down.

10:43You're like let's get to the next bit right okay let's record this acoustic let's put some synths in. Then you came up with a melody and it was just a little

10:54on the whirly.

11:03Who's playing drums here? That's Drew. That's Drew, yeah. Could I ask you about the tempo of this song? Because given what the song's about, I could imagine an inclination towards, you know, writing something more like a ballad or just something much slower as a tribute to grief. I mean, like, that feels maybe like a natural place to go. Yeah. What was it about this kind of tempo that felt right to you about what you were writing about? Well, I wanted it to be like that feeling of liberation when you're kind of getting over grief or like coming to the more accepting phase of grief. I think because I was so desperately wanting to get there myself, I wanted the music to get us there as well, like I suppose, you know?

11:49Yeah. Sounds wanky saying that, you know what I mean? It doesn't at all. No, not at all, yeah. Annie was such a larger than life person And I wanted something to be more celebratory And have that kind of euphoria Because she put so much euphoria into the world And into my world especially as a young lad And I wanted that to be reflected in the music But I never got the chorus The biggest crime in this town has always been the girl Streets of mine were memories I can't forget When tragedy came calling It made me who I am So this chorus, the original chorus, this just wasn't good enough for you?

12:37Yeah. I was like, I've got to get it right. I can't make it, like it can't be crap. Do you know what I mean? It's about Annie. So it kind of just sat like half a song for like a few months. Yeah, a little while, yeah. For quite a few months. Normally the songs come together so quick and this one was such a bastard. We needed somebody else to kind of help get it across the line. I mean, we could have done it ourselves really, but it was like, we're at this point in our career where we're really lucky that we could pretty much call on anybody and the label would back it. So it was like, I want to work with one of my heroes.

13:14Do you know what I mean? I was like, why not? we have a saying in Newcastle where we're from it's shy bairns getting out and that means like shy kids getting nothing so I just asked the label I was like can I ask Adam Granisiel from War on Drugs and they're like yeah of course we'll get his number and then I just called him up and spoke to him about this idea I sent him some songs and he was like he fell in love with them and he called back straight away and then we were just on the phone for like an hour and a half talking about Tom Petty so it went from that to LA with Adam. My conversation with Sam Fender and Joe Atkinson continues after this.

13:59So Adam Grandesil jumped in and then we went out to LA and started working with him and it was magic, you know? Yeah. I was sat in the house that we're staying in, like staying up in the hills and it was amazing, like a bunch of Geordie boys in Hollywood. what the hell has happened this is ridiculous like in the beautiful sunshine and i just sat with the guitar because i was like i've got to get this song sussed out i remember just sitting up on there looking over the hills and looking across the city and all of that and i was just sat thinking about annie and thinking about because she was an actor and she was like such a big movie buff you know obviously being in hollywood where like every bloody movie's ever been made i mean So I sat there thinking about her and just thinking, God, she would love this.

14:44She would love being here with me. And we're driving down Hollywood Boulevard and there was just so many homeless people on the street. And then it made us think of home because the homelessness is getting really bad back home. So it was like bizarre because then like the first half of that song is all talking about walking back from the care home, watching people back there. And then it was like suddenly I was like out in L.A. and I was doing the exact same thing, you know. And then these lines just came out of us. back home everybody on the treadmill running another billboard's out of the heat somebody's darlings on the street tonight you know somebody's darlings on the street tonight that was inspired because billy connolly was he did this tv show he found this grave in scotland and it said somebody's sweetheart and the village had found this random person that had no idea who this person was and somebody says well it's somebody's sweetheart and they buried the person as somebody's sweetheart which i think so beautiful it's like no matter who you are where you go in the world like you're loved by somebody and that's what i thought when i saw all these people on the streets like i was like that's somebody's darling that's somebody's kid you know i remembered that as i was writing the song

16:10it took so long to get it right and then that was like this overwhelming like joy and relief that we got this chorus that was good such a great feeling totally because we'd had that song for ages ages at this point and we're kind of like we knew there was something so special within it. And after that, we just straight to the studio.

16:34Got Drew's drums down. Oh, he's so on it, man. Yeah, dude. I mean, he's so on it that I actually wondered if these were samples when I got the stems. No, no, that's Drew's playing. Adam was kind of like, hey, Drew, can you just do like a straight, just butikata, butikata, and he just rocked that. We overdubbed some toms. bukaka bukaka and then we started building from there

17:04did your ideas about that little riff change when you got to this stage of the song yeah we wanted it to be a whirly but then i remember like it doesn't quite poke out as much as we expected it to poke out yeah so i'll double it and i'll do like a kind of mark knoffler dire straights style pick and pattern version of it.

17:29I love the tiny bend, which you obviously can't do on the Wurlitzer, and so it makes them more distinct as well. Exactly. It sounds more like a band when there's slightly different things happening.

17:48But we felt there was something missing in the high end and I wanted something that was going to come out and sort of mirror the melody so we had to figure out what it was going to be and I remember Adam thinking about that synth sound and he was like yeah it's like Dire Straits yeah he's like hey try this OB-8 get the OB-8 get it OB-8 yeah literally we pressed like one sound and Sam was like oh my god this is the sound this is the sound get it on now everybody on the treadmill I know the billboard's out of the heat Somebody's darling's on the street tonight

18:31It just adds, it's a lush part of the palette, I think. I keep saying palette because Adam, we stole some of his terminology because he always kind of looks at it like he's painting. He's like, yeah, let's go paint. We wanted to do acoustics and Adam was like, I want to get a bit more like a rhythm. And he was like, I think we should just do it together. So we set up a binaural head mic. Have you seen them before? Yeah. So I love them. I mean, it's spooky, aren't they? Like it's literally just like a human head on a stick. And the ears are the microphone. Yeah, and the ears are the microphones.

19:07It's nuts. So like we use that quite a lot to try and get a bit of that sort of like in the room feel. Adam sat on one side of it and I sat on the other side. And we both did the whole song, just one take, just jamming it out.

19:25did it change the way that you played to have him playing it with it's just like for me that was like one of them it was really special what made it so special because he's like my hero ain't he do i mean it was like i was sat and i was thinking like i was like 10 years ago i was in hospital i was like living with my mother and me and my mom were both unemployed didn't have any money black mold all over my bedroom wall and when i was in hospital the lost in the dream album adam's album i've become obsessed with it and that's all i listened to during that whole time that i was recovering and it really meant a lot to me that record i used to listen to this album and dream about doing this as a job and being able to pay my bills and now i'm in la sat with the guy who made that album, playing an acoustic track with them, but both doing it at the same time.

20:21It was literally one of my biggest heroes. You couldn't write it.

20:33Can you tell me about the horns that come in later? Oh, my. Riff tones. The riffs. So the riff tones were basically a combination of our brass players, which is Mark Webb and Johnny Bluehat, And then the war on drugs, Adam invited his mate John Natchez, and they came as a trio. We started calling them the Riptones.

21:12John Natchez is on Barry Mark Webb trumpet Johnny Bluehat on Tenor Sacks The solo actually in the tune which comes in the outro that was done on Johnny's first day to LA. Walked into Adam's studio. Jet lagged. He walked in and just ripped that in one.

21:39Insane. It's the highest note I think I've ever heard him hit on a tenor sax. It was ridiculous. How was it recording your final vocals for the song? so I get quite fearful in the studio, in booths, like just singing. I only really feel comfortable doing my vocals at home because I just feel a lot less stressed. You don't have that like, oh my God, we're against the clock. So I've always kind of done my vocals either like in the flat or like in our place back home. Oh, I stayed all night Till you left this life But that's just love How people watch on the way back home Everybody on the treadmill running Who's singing backing vocals there?

22:31That's Brooke, the newest member of our band. Under the billboards, out of the heat Somebody started, started straight tonight So me and Brooke have been friends since we were like 17. And the first time I ever heard her sing, she was doing a cover of Dancing in the Dark by Bruce Springsteen and my jaw was on the floor I was like that's how you sing I actually started trying to emulate her vibrato as we grew up together which made me a better singer like I kind of learned how to sing through Brooke really how do you think it affected the song to have her voice in there on those choruses as well it's like singing with a family member or something you know what I mean it's like we have that is it telepathy yeah I can sing anything and she'll just find a harmony immediately you know oh I can't stop running I see the whole town fall have people watch on the way back home have people watch on the way back home and then the middle eight didn't come until that was a bit later wasn't it after that yeah I didn't have the lyrics for it, but I knew I wanted to round it off and make it about Annie and just kind of like a final gesture of love to Annie.