Yusuf / Cat Stevens - Father and Son

0:00Yusuf / Cat Stevens:You're listening to Song Exploder, where musicians take apart their songs and piece by piece tell the story of how they were made. I'm Rishikesh Hirwe. Thanks to Lisa for sponsoring Song Exploder. My annual spring cleaning always starts with good intentions, but this year I actually followed through with something really important. I finally replaced my old mattress. It was a much needed change, honestly. I'd become so used to waking up with aches and pains every morning. I kind of forgot what a good night's sleep was supposed to feel like. Lisa has a lineup of beautifully crafted mattresses that are tailored to how you sleep.

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1:22Yusuf / Cat Stevens:So I'm putting in the dates for the first city on my tour, Austin, Texas, and there are over 300 options. There's a huge variety from hotels to vacation rentals. I'm gonna narrow it down to hotels and filter the results based on my budget and my tastes. And okay, there we go. There's still over 20 options for me to choose from. I'm gonna look at the ones that are closest to the venue where I'm playing. And then I'm gonna check out all the reviews and pick the one that feels most like me. Besides being close to the venue, I also want to be within walking distance of great food, preferably a great dessert.

1:59Yusuf / Cat Stevens:And if I can find my perfect stay on Booking.com, then anyone can. Find exactly what you're booking for at Booking.com. Booking.yeah. Book today on the site or in the app. There's a Steven Soderbergh movie called The Limey, and it stars the late Terrence Stamp, the British actor. And in the movie, there are moments where Terrence Stamp's character drifts into memory, and it goes into a flashback. And in those flashbacks to his younger self, they cut to footage of Terrence Stamp from the 1967 film, Poor Cow. There's no weird CGI de-aging or anything. You get to see his actual younger self. And I just love that.

2:38Yusuf / Cat Stevens:I was thinking about that recently, and it made me want to revisit this episode, because Yusuf Cat Stevens kind of did a musical version of that same thing when he re-reported recorded his song, Father and Son. I think it's such a fascinating way to document the actual passing of time by interacting with your younger self. This episode came out originally in 2021, and it was a special episode of the podcast also because it was our 200th. Here it is.

3:11Yusuf / Cat Stevens:The legendary singer-songwriter Yusuf Kat Stevens released his first album in 1967. He's a member of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, and his albums have sold millions. In 2020, he released Tea for the Tillerman 2, a reimagining of his hit 1970 album, Tea for the Tillerman. In the song Father and Son, he sings a duet between the two title characters, doing both voices. But in the 2020 version, he approached this song in kind of an astonishing way. He recorded the part of the father, but for the part of the son, he used a live recording of himself from 1970, taken from a show he played at the Troubadour in Los Angeles.

3:49Yusuf / Cat Stevens:So the two parts are still both sung in his voice, but 50 years apart. In this episode, the 200th episode of Song Exploder, Yusuf Cat Stevens tells the story of how he created, and then recreated, Father and Son.

4:19Yusuf / Cat Stevens:And my name is Yusuf Kat Stevens. The story begins with songs and lyrics that weren't originally intended for an album. They grew out of a whole project which I was working on, which was a musical. I'd always wanted to write a musical because I lived in the West End and so therefore I was surrounded by theatres. And it shaped the background, the soundtrack to my life. And so I was working with a man called Nigel Hawthorne, a well-known actor, comedian, and a writer. And we were chosen as a subject for the musical, The Russian Revolution. Well, the name of the musical was Revolution. And there was this story going on in the countryside.

5:02This Russian family lived on a farm, you know, out there in the outskirts. Well, the son's name was Sasha. And the father's name, well, it was dad, you know, his father. and the son in this scene was wanting to join the revolution but the father loves you you know he loves you that's why he wants you to stay home it's not time to make a change just relax take it easy you're still young That's your fault There's so much you have to know Find a girl, settle down If you want, you can marry Look at me I am old, but I'm happy I think as a writer, you know, you take on all sorts of characters and personalities but when you're writing for a musical, of course, you have to do that much more seriously.

6:11You must enter the character that you're writing about. But a lot of my songs were very, very autobiographical, I would say, and so there was always two sides of me. You know, there was the side which, you know, wanted to get out and do things, and the other side was like, I kind of like things the way they are, for now. So it was me talking to me in two different states of mind. And you know, all the nuances of what a young man would be thinking when there's a revolution outside his front door, you know, that was pretty simple to put together. And the words simply followed. The song itself wasn't difficult to perform as two people, because I just simply shifted the octave up for the son and down for the father.

6:53And that kind of has its own impact on the emotion. How can I try to explain When I do, he turns away again It's always been the same, same old story At that point, we wanted to get some backing for the musical. So my manager, he had some connections with some pretty rich people. We met one of them, and when he heard this thing, he wasn't really interested, but he knew someone who was in the music business, and his name was Chris Blackwell. Chris Blackwell, of course, ran Island Records. Now, Island Records was a really, you know, elite label with a real leaning towards allowing artists to express themselves.

7:42Well, that was pretty great. So we played some of the songs. When we got to father and son, I think his jaw dropped, and he said, look, I want to talk some more about this. but then when we met next he offered me you know a record contract and that was really you know they took me right off course as far as my musical was concerned so I said yeah well okay you know he said we'll put you together with a producer and um and that's where I got introduced to Paul Samuel Smith I used to go and listen to him he was the bass player with the Yardbirds so I used to dance to him his music in the club and just down the road from where I lived in Oxford Street so So we worked through all the songs, and of course one of them would have been Father and Son, it was.

8:28But I didn't like the way it turned out, so it never ended up on the first album I recorded called Mona Bone Jackin. So the second album was where we were really primed, I think, after the first, and the second one just seemed to work. So that was Tea for the Tillerman. From the moment I could talk, I was ordered to listen. Now there's a way, and I know that I have to go away. I know I have to go.

9:09When I sang that song in Morgan Studios, which is where we finally got hold of the song. It was a moment where I was singing the son's part where I could actually hear the timbre, the sound of my own father's voice. And that was very strange because I was singing the son's part, but I got my father's voice up there. He was from Cyprus, so he had a very strong Mediterranean passionate side. You knew when he was angry. And so I got that kind of anger out of me in the role of the son. and it was a very important moment in my recording of memories, that moment where I sounded like my father. But I was singing the son's part.

9:51Strange. All the times that I've cried Keeping all the things I knew inside It's hard, but it's harder to ignore it But Dad was always supportive of me. He was much more relaxed with me and, you know, he bought my first guitar, you know. He didn't quite understand what the music business was all about, but he thought, well, if it makes a living, hmm, it's okay. And he used to always ask my brother, how's Stevie? Because, you know, he used to call me Stevie. He said, how's Stevie? Is he doing all right? And David would say, yeah, he's doing very well, Dad.

10:29Yusuf / Cat Stevens:In fact, Tea for the Tillerman went on to go triple platinum. And in 2003, Rolling Stone included it in their list of the greatest albums of all time. I didn't really intend to do another version, to be honest, but it was my son's idea when we were talking about what to do for the 50th anniversary of the release of Tea for the Tillamant. So what are we going to do? And he suggested this idea, well, why don't we record it again? Because you're singing it kind of differently today. I said, well, that's a good idea. It was nothing about doing an old kind of replicate of what I'd done before. I just wanted to live them again, as I do when I sing them live.

11:08And that was the idea. So that's how we got back to recording Father and Son again. My son has a lot of good ideas. I mean, it was, again, my son who suggested maybe we could pick, you know, a voice from the 1970s or some of the old recordings, and that could be the son, and then I could be singing the father's part. I said, I don't think that's going to work. Using the original vocal was an idea, but it's kind of a repeat. And I didn't want to just do that. So we wanted to use something from that moment in time, but something new, something different that other people haven't heard. But you know what?

11:46We found this great recording of me singing Father and Son in the Troubadour back in 1970. If they were right, I'd agree But it's them they know, not me Now there's a way And I know that I have to go away I know I have to go I thought, I think this might work. Thank you.

12:19The first thing to do was actually to lay down the whole song.

12:30So that's basically what we did. We laid down the whole song, including the part which will be taken over by the 1970s version. You know all the times that I've cried Keeping all the things I knew inside It's hard, but it's harder to ignore it Anyway, when we finally got into the studio, there were lots of ideas. And this was one of them, you know, to have The Sun shipped in from 1970. There were other things too. I'd actually been involved in putting on a kind of a musical again. Then I wrote this thing called Moonshadow. And because we did that, and because Father and Son was in it, I'd come up with all these new ideas.

13:14One of them was this counterpoint melody, which I really loved. And it's played by a slide guitar.

13:35and voices come in.

13:51The band I used for most of the album of Tifa Lutileman II were the guys that I play live with. And my songs more recently have turned towards the electric guitar much, much more. And so the other interesting little riff that I found was really, really lovely, and I found it kind of gave it a modern touch.

14:24When I go out live, you know, people obviously want to hear the songs that they love, the songs that they grew up with. and I sing those songs, you know, but I do need to try and make it more real for my own purposes and to meet the emotion of the song again. And so, yes, I find new ways of expressing something of myself today in those songs.

14:57It's a choice, you know, whether or not you're going to add strings or not, But the song certainly deserved strings. If they were right, I'd agree But it's them they know, not me Now there's a way And I know that I have to go away I know I have to go One of the lyrics I find very intriguing and which I love to think about, it says, there's a way I know I have to go away. That second away could be either a way or it could be a way I have to go. Anyway, it just intrigues me.

15:46Even though you would expect that I would start to take the father's role, I certainly don't. I still wait for the son's part and then I want to sing it much more than I want to sing the father's part. The father's part is great, you go through, you swim through it and it's fine. He's kind of casual, he's a bit concerned, but he's settled down, sit down, just take it easy. Yeah, but yeah, I want to get back to the sun. There's a way, I know, I've got to go. So I always choose the sun's dynamic because there are still things to march about, there's still things to shout about, still things to sing about.

16:21I think that's the world that we live in that's never going to change.

16:36Yusuf / Cat Stevens:Coming up, you'll hear how all of this came together in the final song. I have a new album of my own coming out on April 24th. It's been about 15 years since I last put out a full length, and this is the first one that'll be out under my own name, Rishi Keisha Herway. I started making Song Exploder when I was feeling lost in my own music career. And then for over a decade, I've gotten to have these incredible conversations about the process of making music, talking to other artists. And it made me completely rethink my relationship to music and my way of writing songs. And this album is the product of all of that.

17:10Yusuf / Cat Stevens:It features contributions from some of my favorite artists, including some folks that you may have heard on this podcast, like Iron and Wine, Kevin Morby, Vagabond, Fen Lily, and the producer Phil Winerope. I'm going to be on tour playing in cities across the U.S. starting in April, and I'm trying to bring the spirit of the podcast with me. So every show that I'm playing will begin with a conversation about the album with a different amazing guest moderator in each city, like Adam Scott, Samin Nosrat, Jason Mantzoukas, Josh Molina, Min Jin Lee, Ken Jennings, John Roderick, Austin Kleon, and more.

17:43Yusuf / Cat Stevens:They're all going to be my conversation partners on stage, and then I'll play with my band. The album is called In the Last Hour of Light, and the first couple songs are out now. You can listen to the music and get tickets for the shows on my website, rishikesh.co, or just go to songexploder.net slash live. That's songexploder.net slash live. Thanks.

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18:58Yusuf / Cat Stevens:Eligibility restrictions apply. Visit ASPCAPetinsurance.com slash Amazon Terms for more info. This is a paid advertisement. Insurance is underwritten by either Independence American Insurance Company or United States Fire Insurance Company and produced by PTZ Insurance Agency Limited. The ASPCA is not an insurer and is not engaged in the business of insurance. Song Exploder is sponsored by Gusto. When I started Song Exploder, I hoped that one day it could maybe turn into a job. And then it did, which was great. But it also brought all this admin work with it. And anybody who's tried to start a small business knows that it can be really daunting and time-consuming to deal with stuff like payroll and taxes, and if you're lucky, benefits.

19:45Yusuf / Cat Stevens:But that's where Gusto comes in. Gusto is online payroll and benefits software that's built for small businesses. It's all-in-one, remote-friendly, and incredibly easy to use. So you can pay, hire, onboard, and support your team from anywhere. They have options for every business size, whether you're as small as Song Exploder or something much bigger, and they can work with nearly every budget. Try Gusto today at gusto.com slash song exploder and get three months free when you run your first payroll. That's three months of free payroll at gusto.com slash songexploder. That's gusto.com slash songexploder.

20:24This spring, the Chicago Independent Venue League presents Civil Fest 2026, a celebration of live music and community events across Chicago's independent stages. From April 16th through 25th, experience concerts and special events at venues like Metro, Salt Shed, Talia Hall, Old Town School of Folk Music, The Auditorium, Ramova Theater, Beat Kitchen, Chop Shop, and dozens more. From intimate clubs to legendary rooms, all spotlighting the artists and spaces that define our city. Learn more at civlchicago.com. Civil Fest 2026. Your city, your venues, your festival.

21:05Yusuf / Cat Stevens:And now, here's the 2020 version of Father and Son by Yusuf Kat Stevens in its entirety.

21:45It's not time to make a change Just relax, take it easy You're still young, that's your fault There's so much you have to know Find a girl, settle down If you want, you can marry Look at me I am old But I'm happy I was once like you are now And I know that it's not easy To be calm When you found something going on Take your time Think a lot Think of everything you've got You will still be here tomorrow But your dreams may not

22:45How can I try to explain Cause when I do he turns away again It's always been the same Same old story From the moment I could talk I was ordered to listen, now there's a way And I know that I have to go away I know I have to go

23:51It's not time to make a change Just sit down, take it slowly You're still young, that's your fault There's so much you have to go through Find a girl, settle down If you want, you can marry Look at me, I am old, but I'm happy You know all the times that I've cried Keeping all the things I knew inside It's hard, but it's harder to ignore it If they were right, I'd agree But it's them they know, not me Now there's a way And I know that I have to go away I know I have to go

25:00Yusuf / Cat Stevens:For more, visit songexploder.net. You'll find links to buy or stream both versions of Father and Son, and you can watch the stop-motion animated video that was made for the new version of the song. This episode of Song Exploder was made by me, Rishikesh Hirwe, with editing help from Teenie Lieberson and Casey Diehl. Carlos Lerma makes illustrations for each episode, which you can find on the show's website and Instagram. Special thanks to Jessica Powell and the folks at Audioshake for letting me try out their technology. Song Exploder is a proud member of Radiotopia from PRX, a collective of creative, independent podcasts.

25:37Yusuf / Cat Stevens:You can learn more about our shows at radiotopia.fm. If you'd like to support the podcast, you can get a Song Exploder t-shirt at songexploder.net slash shirt. You can also follow the show on Twitter and Instagram at songexploder. My name is Rishikesh Hiraway. Thanks for listening.